The Syndicate

Martin has already pocketed me.

tutuu is physically incapable of randing scum as usual.

Sloonei is scum for making stuff up.

I want to gut scumread Carotte for saying hi and dipping. Hard to verbalize this one but I feel she'd be slightly more engaged with the AI stuff (reads flying around etc.) as town.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:10 pm hally/sloonei actually always contains at least 1 wolf here

no

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:03 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:45 pm Martin has already pocketed me.

tutuu is physically incapable of randing scum as usual.

Sloonei is scum for making stuff up.
why do u tr tutuu?

There's the usual energy coming from her that she displays when she's town. She could be mimicking it as scum but I think it's not easy to forge and will fall apart eventually if she's faking it. I felt kinda good about #51, #53, #76, #93. Individually taken they're just mildly townie, but all four of them combined + pretty decent energy means that I'm happy to give her an early game townread.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:22 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:03 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:45 pm Martin has already pocketed me.

tutuu is physically incapable of randing scum as usual.

Sloonei is scum for making stuff up.
why do u tr tutuu?
There's the usual energy coming from her that she displays when she's town. She could be mimicking it as scum but I think it's not easy to forge and will fall apart eventually if she's faking it. I felt kinda good about #51, #53, #76, #93. Individually taken they're just mildly townie, but all four of them combined + pretty decent energy means that I'm happy to give her an early game townread.
i was wondering if you were going to bring up #93 - that's actually the strongest towntell i've seen from tutuu so far too. i feel like scum would be searching for viable targets to push on in a game with as many strong players as this, and i very much like that tutuu is willing to throw out a townread on someone for what is an admittedly tiny/small reason. it feels completely contrary to how scum have a tendency to avoid boxing themselves in - it feels like tutuu is literally doing that to her self

also, hey jagged! i'm stoked youre here

That's not the reason I townread 93. I don't really think tutuu is the type of player who takes playerlist that strongly into consideration when trying to plan out her scumplay; her playstyle doesn't strike me as being that competitive or control freak-y. I liked 93 because giving out a townread for a reason that doesn't super make sense logically but that she vibes with emotionally is something that town tutuu does a lot. I think LC's slang stuff has endeared him to tutuu, and gives off a pretty "chill" vibe that she's gut townreading. It's pretty on brand for town tutuu to express a gut townread + "I like this person so they're town" sentiment with a post like 93.

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:30 pm town:
spf
tutuu
alison

town lean:
martin
nut
nook
thun maybe

scum:
sloonei

ama

Where is Carotte?

No I think Sloonei made up the whole thing about getting a towntell from nutella because she clarified her position or whatever in order to look like he's sorting her.

Also townreading me for making logical sense is a new approach. I like it.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:37 pm alright we can have our common ground on sloonei for today but if we're wrong there hally's next

i literally think they are a difference check and would be extremely surprised if they're both town here

but i'm being persuaded to feel it on sloonei more atm ig

I'm confused by this actually. I thought you felt there was a scum between Hally/Sloonei because you independently scumread both of them to the extent that you thought it was very unlikely that you were wrong about both. But this wording ("difference check") seems to imply that you believe that they can't be W/W. What's going on here?

If we're going to do the "Tammy/Sam" strategy I outlined in the signups thread, it may be best to have two kinds of phantom votes, one phantom vote for who we're going to give the gun to, and one vote for who we think is scummy and want to send into the Grasslands so they can be killed by the gun-wielder. I will represent these by Scum Vote: X and Town Vote: Y.

Currently, my votes are:
Scum Vote: Sloonei

and

Town Vote: Nanook

I'm not sure nanook is actually the towniest player in the game, but he has decent equity of townsiding with his gun usage (since it would be pretty suicidal to demand the gun on post 1 when you're intending to use it to go rogue by shooting a townie) regardless of his alignment, and I also think he is the kind of player that would know when is the best time to go rogue with the gun.

Actually the gun person gets the doc save too right? I kind of want to nominate tutuu then, she has the highest combination of town equity + "being targeted N1 by mafia" equity. That's probably more important than nanook having good judgement about when to go rogue.

Town Vote: tutuu[/vote]

So we all realvote for the player who we want to kill, and then realvote for ourselves once, except for the person nominated to be saved, right? That way the doc'd person has 0 votes, and the person we voted to die will have the most, so they're the two to be sent to the grasslands?

I think Sloonei's behavior absolutely has warranted a "I think he's making this up". That was the thought I (and a few others) had when reading his posts, so I don't know why it's inappropriate to write it down in text. The reason I said Martin has already pocketed me is because he plays in a way that I find pretty textbook and relatable, which makes it easier to vibe with his mindset and townread him (which I do).

I think Thunal is null. Carotte's point about Thunal is interesting and it makes me go up on her slightly. I still have her as a slight scum lean on the balance of probabilities, but it's a point in her credit. I have mixed feelings about JJJ.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:21 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:02 am I think Sloonei's behavior absolutely has warranted a "I think he's making this up". That was the thought I (and a few others) had when reading his posts, so I don't know why it's inappropriate to write it down in text. The reason I said Martin has already pocketed me is because he plays in a way that I find pretty textbook and relatable, which makes it easier to vibe with his mindset and townread him (which I do).

I think Thunal is null. Carotte's point about Thunal is interesting and it makes me go up on her slightly. I still have her as a slight scum lean on the balance of probabilities, but it's a point in her credit. I have mixed feelings about JJJ.
you're saying that you think carotte's point about thunal is interesting - but is it factoring into your read on thunal at all?

No. Carotte was essentially saying that Thunal was trying to blend in and their responses felt awkward and unnatural. But I expect some amount of blending in/discomfort when someone plays in a completely new forum with a playerlist that self-admittedly intimidates them. So I don't think it's super AI of Thunal to play in this way.

I actually am not a huge fan of how the response from both JJJ and Sloonei to the theory of a JJJ/Sloonei wolf game has been "I'm tired of people always theorizing about JJJ/Sloonei wolf teams". If you think about it, that is actually an AtE defense (albeit a more polite and subtle kind), since it doesn't actually do anything to rebut the theory that they're wolfing together.

I'm not super bothered by the lack of pertinence in Carotte's responses. Townies will have different lines of investigation to pursue and I have often completely ignored the "big debate" in a thread or addressed it briefly and dismissively because I think it's a pointless distraction.

I am far more concerned with the lack of engagement in the sense that Carotte has shown less interest in sorting people than I expect her to. Her take on Thunal made me go up on her a little because it's better than "say hi and dip", but as mentioned earlier, I still scumlean her overall because she hasn't done anything with Sloonei/the people scumreading Sloonei, or given takes on anyone but Thunal.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:26 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:38 am I actually am not a huge fan of how the response from both JJJ and Sloonei to the theory of a JJJ/Sloonei wolf game has been "I'm tired of people always theorizing about JJJ/Sloonei wolf teams". If you think about it, that is actually an AtE defense (albeit a more polite and subtle kind), since it doesn't actually do anything to rebut the theory that they're wolfing together.
This looks fake too.

"That is actually an AtE defense", whether true or not (I don't get it), says nothing about whether it is genuine. I don't think either of us made an effort to "rebut", because the accusation means so little at this point. I'm not mafia. I don't know about Sloonei, but we cannot be teamed. We can be sarcastic about the notion, because it is an age-old meme. I used to make fun of Epignosis back in the day for making the token "JJJ and Sloonei are teammates" accusation at least once per game thread.

This post has little hunting value unless you believe us to be actual mafia teammates. Is that what we are?

I don't think it's AI for you to be tired of JJJ/Sloonei tinfoils. The part I'm concerned about is that you're using that as a replacement for actually defending yourself or trying to show your towniness. Like this applies to Sloonei especially because he used a very similar defense ("nutella always scumreads me") instead of trying to engage with nutella to show her that he's town, or rebutting the case that nutella had on him. That bothered me quite a lot when he dismissed the case nutella had as "nutella tinfoiling me is on brand".

I generally think that this behavior increases both of your individual scum equity slightly, but it doesn't do much to make me suspect the specific team of JJJ/Sloonei.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:35 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:33 amThe part I'm concerned about is that you're using that as a replacement for actually defending yourself or trying to show your towniness.
Yeah I don't think this works often enough to be a good way to spend my posts. People make their reads and then struggle with their internal confirmation biases regardless of defense. I will "clear" myself as well as I can by trying to solve the game, and I just have to hope people see it.

Yeah but what I'm getting at is that if people are like "hey I think you're scummy because of XYZ" and the response is "that's what everyone always says", then I'm not going to be very impressed by that response since it's just a dodge answer.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:43 am what do u feel like you're getting out of this exchange with jagged right now? is it helping you read him?

I actually made my initial post about it bothering me because I felt it increased JJJ and Sloonei's scum equity and wanted to convince others to also suspect them more. Then JJJ responded in an attempt to try to rebut my line of reasoning by saying he always does that because it's an age-old meme, etc., so now I am clarifying what I meant so people understand what I am talking about and see why my view is sound. This is why #249 is mostly explaining my reasoning and the consequences of that line of logic.

I don't think the exchange has affected my read on JJJ significantly.

Martin is just a very transparent player I think. There's something about the way he talks about managing information and how he feels his tell on Thunal can only be used once that rings of truth to me; I can sense the paranoia about being fooled by scum there. Honestly even this is like some attempt at verbalizing or rationalizing a gut read that was probably made for murkier reasons though.

I think I find players easier to read if their playstyle is similar to mine (duh). For instance I found proto's approach to the game very easy to read and vibe with, and I have a good track record of reading proto because of that. I suspect Martin is a similar case, and I townread him.

It's like 6 pages so if you find yourself having difficulties engaging with the content just chill and talk to us and you'll get into the swing of things. Contrary to popular belief it is not necessary to read every single word posted in a game to play well in it.

Maybe start by reading the posts of people you're familiar with and trying to get a sense of their alignments?

Kind of think nova town for the way they went about reading LC.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:11 am I’m using a post just to say that nova is hard town, that’s how confident I am in the read

nova has been pretty townie, yeah.

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:15 am I like Thunal more today.

I'm not sure if everyone understands that the person sent to the grassland only gets to shoot *among* the persons in the grassland? (most voted, least voted, sent by scum)

I think tutuu & nutella are town. I liked Nanook/SPF/nova/LC/JJJ with no particular order.

I have some mixed feelings about Alison. I think that the only thing I really disliked is how she asked Hally why I wasn't on their read list (I thought it was pretty evident that they jsut didn't have a read on me) and then not really followed up when Hally answered that they didn't have a read yet.

Honestly I just wanted to start a conversation about you because I had a scumread on you, but then Hally said they had no read so I moved on.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:18 pm I am a little suspicious of Long Con since he doesn't have much to say but he still has a presence and makes jokes and short responses. Is that normal for him?

Yes and I've misexed him a couple of times because of it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:50 pm General takes on Martin would be appreciated.

I have a confident townread on him.

Am nearly caught up. Will post thoughts once I am.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:18 pm I need to go do things that are not mafia.

nutella is town
tutuu is town
nova is not ted and town.
martin was town earlier but i have not revisited that read.

?

Clarifying because the bold doesn't look as obvious as I thought - why is nutella town? You just gone down explaining why her behavior is totally null for you because she tinfoils you every game.

I'm caught up. Okay with the idea of giving Sloonei space to breathe. If he doesn't produce results I'm going to end up voting him anyway and I think the other people who currently suspect him will as well.

I think Thunal is very likely a wolf. They were making super surface-level reads and were never paranoid that the reads were being manipulated. eg. "Alison is town because she's confident", "Carotte is town because she re-evaluated on me". We all scumread Sloonei because he gave a baseless townread on nutella for something that was very likely NAI. Same logic applies here: I think town Thunal would hesitate a bit more and wonder if Alison/Carotte was faking these things to pocket her. Doubly so if she feels intimidated by the playerlist.

Scum Vote: Thunal

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:15 pm
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:31 pm I think Alison is towny from this solving. I've played with her before and as scum (well, SK) she was really only making reads that fit her agenda and not making the same logical sense that she did as town that I feel in this game.
there is where thunal initially outed her townread on alison - she followed it up a little bit more with this post:
Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:10 pm True that a lot of tells are player dependent including that one, but I feel like I have to take a more general/umbrella approach to reading the players I don't know. I think for Alison (who I do know) that confidence seems towny. When she was SK she was more hesitant about her reads and gave only leans at the start. I've never seen her as mafia though, only once as town and once as SK.
you could definitely nitpick thunal's read on alison, but i don't particularly like that alison is choosing to frame thunal's reasoning as "townreading alision because she is confident". it seems pretty clear that thunal is saying that she townreads alison because her demeanor is different from her SK game - and the confidence is an element of that difference

I think this read is actually pretty bad though. "Alison is different from that one SK I had with her" is a very questionable way of viewing the situation. Could Alison be faking a change in demeanour to attract a townread? Don't SKs normally play similarly to a townie D1 anyway because they're alone? How can I claim to understand the difference between Alison's town and scum game just by seeing 1 SK game from her and one fragment of a town game where she subbed in at the last day?

I expect these questions to be running through her mind if she's town, and they aren't. Notably, she seems to believe that confidence in reads is enough out of my scum range to give me a firm townread for it. That's not a reasonable belief to have and it's not a belief that I buy Thunal genuinely having.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:17 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:44 pm I'm caught up. Okay with the idea of giving Sloonei space to breathe. If he doesn't produce results I'm going to end up voting him anyway and I think the other people who currently suspect him will as well.

I think Thunal is very likely a wolf. They were making super surface-level reads and were never paranoid that the reads were being manipulated. eg. "Alison is town because she's confident", "Carotte is town because she re-evaluated on me". We all scumread Sloonei because he gave a baseless townread on nutella for something that was very likely NAI. Same logic applies here: I think town Thunal would hesitate a bit more and wonder if Alison/Carotte was faking these things to pocket her. Doubly so if she feels intimidated by the playerlist.

Scum Vote: Thunal
I hedge way more as scum than as town. You saw me as scum. Was I making confident reads like I am this game? Was I never paranoid? I always have a low level of confidence in early reads but I'm calling out the evidence I see and the most likely conclusions from it. I'm starting to doubt my TR on you since I feel like you would know my scum meta better than this.

I'm not sure why you expect me to reverse my opinion on a behavior I found scummy simply because you didn't demonstrate it in another game where you were scum, in a completely different context. That's grasping at straws.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:21 pm To clarify, by confident reads I meant non-hedgy reads without paranoia stated in them. My actual level of confidence in my reads is low since it's D1.

The implied line of reasoning you are engaging in is "Thunal did not do X as wolf. Therefore X is not scummy for Thunal."

That doesn't make sense, especially not when the sample size is one game. There are very few players whose scum repertoire is so limited that they only have access to a few ways of approaching the game as scum and if they deviate from those ways then it proves they aren't scum. Just because you did not do a scummy thing in the PerC game does not mean the behavior isn't scummy

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:59 am the deadline for tomorrow is basically right around the time i'm able to get on my laptop & post stuff. i can't guarantee that i'll be here

i'd like to place my vote tonight in that case - should i be placing my vote on the person i scumread the most? i forget the system we're doing, lol

Yes, and it's locked in for the day.

#565 and #566 are both pretty townie posts. Not interested in pursuing a JJJ exe at this point in time. His explanation of his thought process and progression on Sloonei makes sense to me. My biggest beef with him is the "AtE" thing but he said that was just a playstyle difference and I think that's a plausible claim. SPF up to a solid townread.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:17 am
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:16 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:14 am
nutella wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:05 am
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:30 pm so, from towniest to scummiest, i guess that leaves me at:

nutella
tutuu
hally
nova
thunal
long con
nanook
jagged
martin
alison
sloonei
carotte

eh. i don't know how good i feel about those names at the bottom - i'm going to try to focus more on townhunting than i am with scumhunting, because i think i'm better at telling when people are being genuine than i am at searching specifically for scum
feeling like we have very similar views of the game rn, I think our lists are extremely similar and I'd put you at the top in my place. I'd maybe move alison up a bit, and mayyybe hally down slightly but I've felt way better about them than I did at first, otherwise I agree with this order pretty closely.
do you townread alison at all? if so, could you help me see her as town? i dont know if im having such a hard time tring her this game because im expecting her to sound exactly like she did in radiohead mafia, but there is just something about her tone that's getting to me
eh, I don't know that I particularly townread her for any specific reason, I'm just not willing to say I scumread her either. I hate to say null but she's kinda just.... Alison so far.
Have you seen alison's scum game before?

has she ever

Okay, I'm caught up. I think my doc pool is SPF, Hally, tutuu, nova. These are the players with the highest chance to get shot by mafia (probability of being town + probability of being shot if town). I'm leaning slightly towards nova at the moment because they're having the hardest time getting into the game so I want to give them more time to get going. If any of the others are shot I sort of know where they stand on things and can move from there knowing all their reads are made in good faith. If nova gets shot I don't get as much info.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:51 am i'm gonna go to bed soon, and after mulling it over, i'm placing my vote on carrote. if i think about today holistically, then she's the player that i have the most reasons to be suspicious of. tbh i'm not too sure of this vote and i wish i had gotten more time to discuss the game with her, but i have more reasons to believe that she's mafia than not right now

as for who we should save/choose to use the kill tonight, my vote is for one of nutella/tutuu/hally (and maybe nova - i do like quite a lot of their posts even if i dont tr them as confidently as i do the other 3)

You're supposed to vote for yourself as well as Carotte (you can vote for multiple people). That way you'll have at least 1 vote to nutella/tutuu/Hally/nova's 0, to guarantee that they'll get the gun and doc save.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:44 am Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl

Not voting yourself just basically means you're voting yourself as the person who should get the gun. Which is reasonable for you to do, since you're in my doc pool anyway. I'm going to go ahead and lock a vote on myself since I don't think it's likely I'll get the gun.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

Currently I'm deciding between Sloonei and Thunal for my second vote. I'll do a formal vote on them nearer the deadline when I'm certain of my choice.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:49 am I JUST FOUND A slight flaw in our plan guys

The plan is the consensus wolf always get sgot right? So if they rly happen to be wolf (the one we put most votes on), then they have no reason not to openwolf by voting the person that supposedly getting 0 votes, and get the. outta the treehouse, and then kill their ass or some shit / or mess up with the plan somehow

Whatever yall figure it out yall smart and make big posts and stuff

I can't think of a good way to avoid this at the moment, at least not without severely diluting the power and meaning of a vote.

The second flaw is not correct. The person who's being sent to the Grasslands will have more than just two votes on them. Like let's say we send Sloonei to the Grasslands here, everyone who scumreads Sloonei is going to vote him. Even if Sloonei votes some random other person at the last moment, that person will only have 2 votes (self vote + Sloonei vote) and it won't outweigh all the other votes Sloonei is getting.

linki: yes

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:08 am Alison will u pat my head pls? ;-;

*headpat*

My issue isn't the read you're making. My issue is that you're like handing out reads left and right for stuff that (in my view) should be close to NAI, and I don't see evidence of the paranoia I'd expect to see from town there. There's a disparity between the substance of the read and the attitude you have towards it that I think can be plausibly explained by you having NAI on the subject of the read.

This isn't to say that townies can never be paranoid about their townreads early. But I think that kind of confidence comes either from a long history or extensive meta on the person, or because they saw something that they thought was really hard to fake. I don't think you believe that the observations you've made about me are at all hard to fake - which makes me question why the possibility I was faking didn't seem to factor into your analysis.

And all of the above isn't just limited to your read on me: there's also the townreads on SPF and Carotte for re-evaluating you. I checked your ISO; you've said that you've only ever spectated SPF, and since you didn't know who Carotte was I'm going to assume that you haven't played with her at all. What is it about their re-evaluations that makes you townread them? Because you said that it wasn't the way they went around re-evaluating you that made them townie (which is a standard read), but the fact that they re-evaluated at all, when they could have justified scumreading you. I think that is completely NAI. Scum has reason to white knight a player. They can't just push townies all the time. They also can't just lock in a read and let it stagnate forever, they have to fake some kind of progression or development on their mindset. So why is the fact that they did re-evaluate on you townie?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:18 am Alison, could you describe the mafia-aligned motivations you suspect might underlie Thunal's actions?

It's less "mafia-aligned motivation" and more like, she's trying to make up reads (because mafia don't actually have reads, they know the alignments of everyone) so she just grasps at the first line of logic that comes to mind, and she doesn't bother questioning the logic because it's not a real read, it's made up.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:24 am Re: Alison, In her town game I found her process satisfying to read and I thought it made a lot of sense (to be fair I didn't really play with Alison that game, she was a replacement and I died before she repped in but I followed the game). I saw some of that same process here but I'm actually realizing that she didn't say anything like "Sloonei is making that up" in her town game. I dislike her suspicion of me because I feel like it doesn't have a strong base and I think she's also doing what she said I was doing (making reads that seem confident without any doubt). I'm unsure of Alison.

This is a bad mischaracterization. I can show you a bunch of games where I say stuff like that as town. I also think it's wrong of you to say that I'm doing what you're doing. Here's my post about confidence re: early reads.

I think that kind of confidence comes either from a long history or extensive meta on the person, or because they saw something that they thought was really hard to fake. I don't think you believe that the observations you've made about me are at all hard to fake - which makes me question why the possibility I was faking didn't seem to factor into your analysis.

For every confident townread I've given, I can explain to you why I don't think the behavior I saw was trivially fakeable. In other words, I can show you why I didn't have a reason to question that read. That's the difference between my reads and yours.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:32 am
Alison wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:16 am And all of the above isn't just limited to your read on me: there's also the townreads on SPF and Carotte for re-evaluating you. I checked your ISO; you've said that you've only ever spectated SPF, and since you didn't know who Carotte was I'm going to assume that you haven't played with her at all. What is it about their re-evaluations that makes you townread them? Because you said that it wasn't the way they went around re-evaluating you that made them townie (which is a standard read), but the fact that they re-evaluated at all, when they could have justified scumreading you. I think that is completely NAI. Scum has reason to white knight a player. They can't just push townies all the time. They also can't just lock in a read and let it stagnate forever, they have to fake some kind of progression or development on their mindset. So why is the fact that they did re-evaluate on you townie?
I'm not townreading Carotte. I think her reevaluation on me looked somewhat good and GTH I would say she's town instead of scum but my level of confidence there is very low. I don't really care what a "standard read" is, I have my own process for making them that might be different than site meta. Scum does have to fake progression but since I don't know Carotte I default to reading others' scum games based on my own and I know I don't reevaluate unless it fits my agenda, especially not early on like that.

It's not about site meta at all. My point is very simple, that it is completely illogical to assume that re-evaluation is townie when scum have multiple incentives to re-evaluate. You not taking those incentives into consideration smacks of TMI.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:53 am
Alison wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:25 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:18 am Alison, could you describe the mafia-aligned motivations you suspect might underlie Thunal's actions?
It's less "mafia-aligned motivation" and more like, she's trying to make up reads (because mafia don't actually have reads, they know the alignments of everyone) so she just grasps at the first line of logic that comes to mind, and she doesn't bother questioning the logic because it's not a real read, it's made up.
This seems really nitpicky and completely untrue. Did you see that I did the same exact reading process in my town games? I assume you read my posts in Monster Hunter World when you repped in, and I gave an example of a townlean I made (for reasons that could be easily fakeable) on the 7th post in the entire game in another town game of mine. My reads are more about likelihood than anything. None of the townreads I have I'm certain about. But putting in a bunch of paranoia or saying something could be faked undermines the message I'm trying to make when I state a townread - that the person is more likely town than mafia.

I explicitly said I didn't read most of the game because it was too long and the deadline was impending in MHW. If you want to defend yourself by saying you make this kind of read as town, I suggest you link the relevant post(s).

The other issue I have is that so far you've scumread someone for starting to scumread you (me), and townread two people (or at least liked their posts) for starting to townread you (SPF and Carotte). This isn't a consistent pattern in the sense that you don't townread everyone for townreading you (eg. I scrolled through your ISO and didn't see you reciprocatively townreading Martin or JJJ). But the fact that the three people you did so on were the same people I thought you had shallow reads on suggests that you might have been pulling together an excuse to scum/townread them for a more self-serving motive.

@Martin: A clarification about the post you were confused about. I think it's NAI to feel certain emotions. But I think it's AI to use those emotions as a shield in place of a real defense. I am well known for being harsher than average on AtE defenses, and I think they very frequently come from scum as well. It's fine to feel things, it's even fine to express those things, but when your only response is the expression of emotion and not, like, real reasons why the accusation is wrong, then that is where I get suspicious.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:24 am
Alison wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:01 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:44 am Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl
Not voting yourself just basically means you're voting yourself as the person who should get the gun. Which is reasonable for you to do, since you're in my doc pool anyway. I'm going to go ahead and lock a vote on myself since I don't think it's likely I'll get the gun.

[VOTE: Alison] aubergine

Currently I'm deciding between Sloonei and Thunal for my second vote. I'll do a formal vote on them nearer the deadline when I'm certain of my choice.
where did your early sr on carotte go, alison? i haven’t seen you talk about her again since then despite her getting a lot of suspicion since. how has your read on her progressed?

I was more focused on building a case on Thunal and watching to see if Sloonei improves/watching JJJ's read on Sloonei. She improved a little in my eyes due to resurfacing after I pointed out her disengaged feel, but seems to have dipped again; although not to a degree that I can rule out real life issues as being a reasonable cause.

I haven't really found anything she's done that's townie enough to really counterbalance the early scumread. Playing it low key as mafia is well within her range too (see amdibals). For those reasons she's still in my POE and my read on her has not changed an awful lot.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:28 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:44 am Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl
Hmm. Are we (the town) sure about Carotenoid though?

I think its a bit LHF to get rid of Carotenoid, which can imply being town.

In my 2nd town game (3rd game I played), 2-3 players who I thought were easy eliminations happened to actually be town when they were either night-killed or eliminated, and so I'm a little wary to just off Carotenoid right now unless we're imagining that Carotenoid is a day 1 bus.

Why does easy elimination = "town or bus"? Why can't they be caught mafia?

(This site has a pretty high rate of eliminating scum D1, also.)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:18 am @Alison do you have any thoughts on the relationship between Thunal and Carotte?

Probably not W/W.

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