The Syndicate

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:52 pm

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:51 pmI'm alive!

Weren't you before now?

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 pm [VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine for the memes

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:08 pm

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:05 pm

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 pm [VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine for the memes

I'm not sure why he felt the need to add the "for the memes". Feels like an unnecessary attempt at justifying a vote that is nothing more than RVS on someone that hadn't posted yet.

bro it's a #23 vote for Huge Ass what do you want from me

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:18 pm

Spoiler: show

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:03 pm Grandpa is creeping me out. Seems to have had a weird obsession with inactives and especially me. He tagged me, and mentioned my name a couple of times.

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:05 pm

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 pm [VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine for the memes

I'm not sure why he felt the need to add the "for the memes". Feels like an unnecessary attempt at justifying a vote that is nothing more than RVS on someone that hadn't posted yet.

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:07 pm [VOTE: Grampa] aubergine

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:08 pm

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:05 pm

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 pm [VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine for the memes

I'm not sure why he felt the need to add the "for the memes". Feels like an unnecessary attempt at justifying a vote that is nothing more than RVS on someone that hadn't posted yet.

bro it's a #23 vote for Huge Ass what do you want from me

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:10 pm

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:08 pm

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:05 pm

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:40 pm [VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine for the memes

I'm not sure why he felt the need to add the "for the memes". Feels like an unnecessary attempt at justifying a vote that is nothing more than RVS on someone that hadn't posted yet.

bro it's a #23 vote for Huge Ass what do you want from me

To just vote, not talk.

@Hugh Jass: This'll come across defensive as hell since it's coming from me, but was an OMGUS vote—based on a joke vote from the beginning of the game—right before EOD really the best you were able to muster in a little over half an hour? After a day of being able to read back, what are your reads, if any?

Same to you @Milhouse Van Houten. Anything beyond the town/scum wall now?

Hugh, you mentioned I have a "weird obsession" with inactives, but this is why. We have nothing (majorly actionable) to work off of from you two after an entire cycle. I'm not asking you to flood us with in-depth reads, nobody's really doing that, but like, something? Anything? After 72 hours, what's the scoop?

Before the spew clear and role claim I was pretty comfortable with the Flanders/Skinner wagons, and hadn't really built a major POE beyond that except with poking holes in what Marge was saying re: Homer and generally being unimpressed with Milhouse's empty wall. Will need to fix that today at some point.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:36 pm and Hugh Jass looks terrible as well.

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:18 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:07 am That was a garbage elimination.

10 mins since you posted that, and crickets.
Is that really all you've got on the game so far? I'd like to read what you have to say

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:36 pm The old man looks terrible in a lot of ways, but is also right that Hugh Jass voted for him for NONE of those reasons and Hugh Jass looks terrible as well.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:39 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:29 am

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:36 pm and Hugh Jass looks terrible as well.

Expand.

Unlike Allison I think your "burst of activity" looked terrible. As in "okay, got a free day, now lemme not get subbed out." Your vote looked random at best, opportunistic at worst. And your whining about the game state is just irritating as hell.

NOBODY was ecstatic about chopping a low poster...but nobody had a solid wolf read to put up instead either, least of all you. Most of us had to deal with that, and you come waltzing in at the end having done FUCK ALL and smugly spout about how we should have chopped better? NO SHIT we should have chopped better, and if a bunch of people hadn't lamed off the day JUST LIKE YOU DID maybe we would have.

Now you had your "big EoD outburst" and a 24 hour night phase went by and you are back...and getting ready to start catching up. I get it, some people sign up and life catches them, and some people just wanna put nothing into the game...but coming in here with this "I was here for twenty minutes and y'all bad chopped" is flatly infuriating.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:45 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:44 am

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:36 pm The old man looks terrible in a lot of ways, but is also right that Hugh Jass voted for him for NONE of those reasons and Hugh Jass looks terrible as well.

I hate this read. I think this comes from a wolf more often than not, like it doesn't feel real at all. It's scheme-y as hell, the way he engages and accept the suspicion on gramps at a superficial level without getting into anything concrete, while at the same time shading me who also happen to be at odds with the gramps.

Like the way he goes one about gramps being suspicious for several reasons, and me suspecting me for none of those reasons. The emphasis of none feels fake lol.

Waiting for him to expand.

At least I have made reads twenty minute man.

[VOTE: Hugh Jass] aubergine

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:46 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:26 am Can't do better than voting Mafia. It's pretty disingenuous to label it as an OMGUS vote, I clearly mentioned your behavior of obsessing over inactives as well as your comment accompanying the vote. Also an omgus would imply that you actually suspected me rather than just a joke vote.

This is a bullshit argument. You tagging me and mentioning me throughout the phase when I haven't even entered the thread doesn't align with that at all. I'd accept that if I was already here and doing nothing or dipped, and you wanted to hear more about me. It comes off more as scum having trouble engaging with the happenings of the thread and creating content, and then using inactives to that end. It's a cheap way of selling an engaged and concerned vibe.

Post 425: Case in point in this post. It's an awful post, even worse is I, a no poster, is mentioned in it. Like how was I even worthy of mentioning at all in it as an option. The "seems better thzn chopping a no-show in Hugh" is ridiculous. It's the scum having troubled to create genuine substance I'm talking about. You're using that bit as a way to sell of your vote and fluffing your post. Same with Milhouse there.

I haven't read everything yet.

you just made me ISO myself, and I resent that

I tagged you one singular time before D2 (and it was after people started pressuring Homer for dipping, so seems relevant to the situation at the time of you still not having posted by then), mentioned you a couple times when talking about zero posters (a shocking twist that you, a zero poster, would be mentioned in such a thing)

anyways, where I come from, inactivity ends up being a scum-tell more often than it doesn't

that may not be the case here and I accept that, and I am trying to not base my reads and moves solely off of that

Speaking of "here," is there any way to see vote history?

I'm pretty sure when I switched my vote to Lisa at the end of D1, I was the only voter on her, or maybe the second (leave obvious room for error here since apparently my memory is absolute garbage). Who did I sell my vote to? Then I switched to the Milhouse wagon, which clearly parses since, as you describe, I'm "weirdly obsessed" with inactives

(even though my case on Milhouse went beyond simply not being here: it was based on him coming by to drop a single town/scum wall and then disappearing again; not participating and then showing up to offer no actionable reads before going back to not participating is not town-y, and in a world of claims and spew, seemed as good a choice as any)

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:00 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:52 am

I have made reads. I called Mill a townie, and he flipped Town. I called Gramps a wolf, and I'm calling you one now.

three names drawn apparently from a hat and attached to words aren't "reads."

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 9:02 pm Mill is town for that post calling alignment based on entrance posts. I'm having trouble seeing a flanking wolf do that post and then just dip, it's the kind of unprompted things that usually comes from town, like I guess he had the urge to do alignment guesses for fun.

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:44 am

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:36 pm The old man looks terrible in a lot of ways, but is also right that Hugh Jass voted for him for NONE of those reasons and Hugh Jass looks terrible as well.

I hate this read. I think this comes from a wolf more often than not, like it doesn't feel real at all. It's scheme-y as hell, the way he engages and accept the suspicion on gramps at a superficial level without getting into anything concrete, while at the same time shading me who also happen to be at odds with the gramps.

Like the way he goes one about gramps being suspicious for several reasons, and me suspecting me for none of those reasons. The emphasis of none feels fake lol.

Waiting for him to expand.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:00 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:52 am

I have made reads. I called Mill a townie, and he flipped Town. I called Gramps a wolf, and I'm calling you one now.

Sorry twenty minute man, but I just am not ready to buy into "I showed up, skimmed the thread, and KNEW the low poster was town." If you did REALLY KNOW it's because he wasn't in your wolf room. If you are just "well, he was no worse than rand and I happened to guess right" then get off your high horse.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:19 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:11 am Now can I please go back to reading in peace? Thank you.

Sure...because I would certainly love to see you produce a read on someone who isn't already dead or one of yesterdays lead wagons...that sort of actual effort might make a difference here.

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:21 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:00 am

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:46 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:26 am Can't do better than voting Mafia. It's pretty disingenuous to label it as an OMGUS vote, I clearly mentioned your behavior of obsessing over inactives as well as your comment accompanying the vote. Also an omgus would imply that you actually suspected me rather than just a joke vote.

This is a bullshit argument. You tagging me and mentioning me throughout the phase when I haven't even entered the thread doesn't align with that at all. I'd accept that if I was already here and doing nothing or dipped, and you wanted to hear more about me. It comes off more as scum having trouble engaging with the happenings of the thread and creating content, and then using inactives to that end. It's a cheap way of selling an engaged and concerned vibe.

Post 425: Case in point in this post. It's an awful post, even worse is I, a no poster, is mentioned in it. Like how was I even worthy of mentioning at all in it as an option. The "seems better thzn chopping a no-show in Hugh" is ridiculous. It's the scum having troubled to create genuine substance I'm talking about. You're using that bit as a way to sell of your vote and fluffing your post. Same with Milhouse there.

I haven't read everything yet.

you just made me ISO myself, and I resent that

I tagged you one singular time before D2 (and it was after people started pressuring Homer for dipping, so seems relevant to the situation at the time of you still not having posted by then), mentioned you a couple times when talking about zero posters (a shocking twist that you, a zero poster, would be mentioned in such a thing)

anyways, where I come from, inactivity ends up being a scum-tell more often than it doesn't

that may not be the case here and I accept that, and I am trying to not base my reads and moves solely off of that

Speaking of "here," is there any way to see vote history?

I'm pretty sure when I switched my vote to Lisa at the end of D1, I was the only voter on her, or maybe the second (leave obvious room for error here since apparently my memory is absolute garbage). Who did I sell my vote to? Then I switched to the Milhouse wagon, which clearly parses since, as you describe, I'm "weirdly obsessed" with inactives

(even though my case on Milhouse went beyond simply not being here: it was based on him coming by to drop a single town/scum wall and then disappearing again; not participating and then showing up to offer no actionable reads before going back to not participating is not town-y, and in a world of claims and spew, seemed as good a choice as any)

Do you suspect me for being absent up until the last half hour or so?

To the thread, to anyone reading your posts. I didn't mean it as in you trying to get people to join on that wagon, more like selling it as legitimate I guess.

What was suspicious about him dropping that town/scum wall? Did you have no other wolf read from D1?

I don't strongly suspect you right now

The issue with a slank read is that they kind of crumble if the person comes back and starts genuinely contributing.

I don't like your contributions, of course, but it's substance, and so early in the day I'm not feeling like you're "best chance to be a wolf," especially with a solid half of the players not yet here

What I find suspicious about town/scum walls is that they are easily abandoned or manipulated. It just encourages the reader to inject their own bias, and then the person who made the wall can play off that instead of coming up with anything themselves. A "this is towny" or "this is wolfy" here or there isn't a big deal, but if a wall of "town" and "wolf" is all that's offered, I find it really difficult to see it as anything more than noise

the only options available to a reader are to pressure for info, agree with a read and inject your own reasoning, or disagree with a read and inject your own reasoning

the latter two options are particularly problematic because you can get the replier to make your case for you. it's free real estate reads

I haven't had strong "they will flip wolf" reads yet. I did when Homer first did his thing (intro, then flat out rejected participating), and then when Flanders did his thing (refusing to justify reads, just expecting us to listen to him). The first... is on ice because Marge was really insistent it was "good enough for D1" and then other wagons took up speed. I am rather interested in what Homer does D2 and if Marge still hard defends him. The second evaporated the second Flanders spewed himself clear.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:10 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:57 am

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:19 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:11 am Now can I please go back to reading in peace? Thank you.

Sure...because I would certainly love to see you produce a read on someone who isn't already dead or one of yesterdays lead wagons...that sort of actual effort might make a difference here.

I see you're conceding your initial point. I accept it.

This kind of bullshit "claim victory" post, outside a mafia game, would be straight up trolling.

I liked some of your reads, think others were just gum bumping but want to check them before I say anything more, and...really want people to look closely at something you brought my attention to...

You said "I usually find the "lol" and other laughing acronyms as scum tells sometimes when they don't really match the tone and vibe of a player, and they're like using them to sweeten their post and comes off as anxious." I think that showed a lot of potential self awareness, in the "people have told you you have a wolf tell" kind of way.

But not in the real way where you can use that information to clean up the tell. How many nervous chuckles can you fit in a single wall post man?

You have joined the game though, and like I said even though your read on me is nothing but conf biased bullshit some of them are really good, so for now

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:17 am It's getting pretty late for the Hugh Jass. I'm off to bed, should probably be check back around sometimes in the evening tomorrow.

Mr. Burns wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:39 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:30 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:17 am It's getting pretty late for the Hugh Jass. I'm off to bed, should probably be check back around sometimes in the evening tomorrow.

I fucking lied.

That's really annoying because I was gonna call it but now I'm interested in exchanging ideas that might help solve this thing.

If I look at Gramps, will you look at the Marge/Homer thing that I haven't sorted out yet?

They both said something about knowing who Bart is...and I am bothered by not knowing who Bart is...plus it just feels like maybe one of them pocketed the other there.

Allison Taylor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:23 am Hugh I know you have a townread on CBG, so I'm interested to here your thoughts on my case on him above. How fakeable do you think the towntells you picked up from him are?

Krusty the Clown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:00 am CBG is looking just as scummy as he was at the end of last RD. 2 posts thus far, with a total of like 5, maybe 6 words? Feels like he's scum that's having a hard time engaging the thread after his early interactions.

Krusty the Clown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:18 am Not sure if we've seen a post from Homer that's longer than 2 sentences. Others have of course noticed the lack of participation, but I wonder....does Homer as W give Marge a town read if they're scum buds? I'd think he'd participate more if that were the case

Comic Book Guy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:35 pm I'm legit town.

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:37 pm They're connected. At first I disliked the "not being here" thing, then I disliked what I saw as an OMGUS vote.

Since then, you've both shown up and developed your read, so both reasons for not liking your play have been resolved. And while I don't like your read on me, it's coherent and reasoned, so I can't say you're just making things up or anything like that.

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:37 pm I don't like it when people think I'm a wolf

I think you've moved up in being town-read, despite me not liking that you did that by pushing me further down into the POE. I have no idea if that makes sense.

Okay, put differently: You're doing town-y things now which makes it more likely you're town, and since I'm interested in finding villagers that's a good thing. Maybe eventually I can convince you I'm town too.

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:37 pm A very quick hypothetical example:

Person A: "Town."

Person B: "I agree. How they responded to Person C gave me town vibes."

*later*

Person D: "Person A, what's your read on that guy?"

Person A: [repeats what Person B said]

In a vacuum, totally fine. You can read someone's case, agree, and make it your own. But if acquiring reads by making people fill in the blanks is the only thing you're doing...

Another side of it is that if someone just says "town" or "scum," they're not actually telling you anything. Okay, you think some guy is town and you've quoted a post. Why? How does that relate to their other posts, to the people they've interacted with? Even just "it's a vibe" is something possibly usable later. As-is, a one-word reply is empty.

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:37 pm Not inherently. I don't think sharing where I'm from is against the rules, so I'll say I'm from CFC/CivFanatics Center. There, it's often modus operandi for wolves to slank or meme their way to a victory, and the town usually adopts a liberal interpretation of Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf. People who just joke around or go inactive without doing anything else are usually a decent bet to flip as scum. It used to be the case that those people were given the benefit of the doubt because "surely wolves wouldn't do that every time," but then the wolves would do that every time. I guess it could just be that I've grown bitter about it.

I like banter, it's my favourite part of Mafia, but nearing EOD and then as the game progresses I do think more seriousness is warranted. Like if we're trying to solve, or at least poke holes in reads, it's specifically detrimental to town for there to be villagers (or wolves) just doing their own thing, game state be damned. You can't solve someone just joking around without flipping them or mech-clearing them somehow, and if they never offer a read, or if they never offer a read that's reasoned, then they're not helping the rest of town either. Then the people who ARE playing the game have to find a way to win in spite of their supposed-to-be allies.

So I err towards resolving slankers and jokers in the early game if they don't *play the game* at some point, barring scum slips, total meltdowns, and wolf play (like making a read based off of made-up information and presenting it like cold hard facts). If you ask someone to give you a read or to respond to someone else's case and they just go "nah," I have no problem considering that anti-town and on the list of things to be excised. A soccer goalie who just sits down in the middle of the goal might stop a couple shots over the course of the game but their team is going to be pissed that their teammate is opting out when they specifically agreed to play that game. To an extent I think that applies here. If every villager pulls a Milhouse or a Homer, then it's a guaranteed loss almost every time. I don't mind taking it easy, that's my go-to when I'm not writing big posts like these, but there's gotta be something to work with at some point.

Krusty the Clown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:12 pm

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am Finally caught up! I'm feeling things, feeling a lot of things but I'm having trouble trying to put them into words lol. It was also pretty difficult internalizing information, felt like reading posts from new players everywhere and the lack of familiarity with avys I guess you get lost sometimes and don't even remember who said what.

I think my strongest town reads would be Marge, Otto and Alison. Found myself agreeing with like almost everything Marge saying and that's pretty crazy lol. We have the two same scum reads and like most of her posts comes off as natural and you can see her train of thoughts. They're like open and accessible if that makes any sense, doesn't feel like there is an agenda behind them. I usually find the "lol" and other laughing acronyms as scum tells sometimes when they don't really match the tone and vibe of a player, and they're like using them to sweeten their post and comes off as anxious. Here it feels like she's just having fun, and it kind of gives off a good care free vibe that is townie.

Otto and Alison are the og contributors of the thread. I liked the energy they came in with, and it felt like it came with genuine game solving intent. Didn't really agree all that much with some of Otto's reads but they felt genuine, a lot of progression and reconsiderations which makes me feel like he's trying to figure out people for real and not just putting a show. I particularly liked post 72, I think it's the kind of post that only town does. It's nothing fancy but like scum never make them because they're never solving for real. I don't know if this make any sense lol, it's like the kind of self reflecting and gathering of thoughts that comes from a townie mindset when they're trying to get a feel for the state of the game. Agreed with his Gtumple take, felt also genuine and not like him wanting to get Grumple off his back. I understand it too 'cause you usually can have personal takes on how someone is treating you so you can get reads from it, I'm a no u specialist since I feel like I have good instincts for when scum is pushing me for bullshit reasons lol. Overall have the same thought about Alison, I liked her Gramps take and while I started suspecting him for different and more personal reasons, her take are good. The change of speed of Gramps is particularily telling. I also like her feelings about the state of the game and how its going, feel like genuine town concerns.

Pretty much agree with Marge about Homer. The idgaf attitude her and not tailoring his game to people especially after getting prodded is more likely town than not. Also it actually feels genuine, rather than like a scum trying to sell that fake bravado. He kind of embodies it here lol. The lock town on Mill is absolutely beautiful.

I'm having some trouble with CBG, little bit of a love hate relationship. I kind of read his concise posts as town like, they feel like naked thoughts and right to the point. Also some of the silly one liners he's dished have surprisingly pinged me town lol. He has that same attitude vibe that Homer have, although it's not something that is unfakeable (if that is word). Not sure if I'm dumb but post 417 is town for me lmao. We have Mill about to get eliminated, and it's like a meme-y mafia read on him that I just don't think Mafia ever makes. It's fucking hilarious.

Unlike his parents, I have no fucking clue who Bart is. He's in my townpile though. I guess for the bland reasons that his thoughts are genuine bla bla bla lol. I kind of like the little work he's done when he's been playing the game and contributing. Feels real to me, and while it actually matches other peoples reads especially the scum reads, it kind of comes off as he's coming into them on his own like he's playing the game at his own pace.

Kristy, and Lisa are in my PoE. I haven't really figured them out much and some stuff have pinged me. Also not a lot of things to work with. Krusty gives off a weird disattached vibe, like he's a robot if that makes sense lol. There is like no emotion accompanying his posts and it comes off as if he's not actually trying to figure people out just asking questions. Speaking of questions, I'm not seeing him reach much conclusions and seems like he's just faking contributions through those questions who don't seem most of the time to be stuff that will actually help him figure someone out. More like bland and semantic stuff that I guess help him fake contribution. I think his take on Mill's wall post is the kind of wolfy remark used to shade others. He's like piggy backing off others when they're discussing Mill, and he just pops in to point out something that can be seen as scummy and then nothing further. He dips from there with clean hands. Kind of saw it that way.

Not a big fan of Lisa's little contribution. Feels like she's hunting some easy posts to go off of, and then just share some bland takes. She's kind of using them to appear as if contributing. It's not the lack of reasoning that is off to me, it's more like they seem to be random as hell. There is no train of thoughts or contuinity to them, she's not like quoting different posts about a same discussion trying to give her thoughts about them or add to the discussion. She's more putting her hand into a lot of different discussion to I guess appear more visible, and broaden her reach.

Already talked about Gramps and Burns who are at the bottom of my PoE. Haven't really moved much off of them after catching up completely, although I'd say I'm still mulling over some things I've seen from Gramps. Also the inactives thing could be a culture/playstyle clash, but even then I'm not a big fan of the rest of his contribution. The gear shift that Alison built her case on is something I agree with as well. Scums are more likely to make it when called out, and it kind of shows that whatever vibe or attitude they had prior was fake.

I still fucking hate Mr. Burns with a passion. I think he was trying to discredit early on Alison and Otto with the fear mongering about them potentially power wolfing. It's a cheap way to shade someone while posing it as a an open ended question, "oh I'm just aking myself" "I'm not sure". It sounds so fucking fake, and it's usually the kind of cowardy wolf tactics to shade loud voices. No fucking townie put that thought out there immediately. It's so slimy lol.

I've got more thoughts there, and also more thoughts in general but this is it for this post. It actually fucking sucks to come from behind 'cause I have so many problems trying to put into words everything I want to say lol. I guess that'll serve me missing the whole phase. Hopefully I'll keep being up to date this phase. I initially thought about iso-ing every single player and then sharing my thoughts posts by posts as that'd be easier, but fuck that lmao.

Interesting...has trouble putting thoughts into words, then proceeds to post an absolute novel. Ya, makes sense. Also, not a fan at all of the last minute pop-in at EoD last RD, giving Milhouse a townread on pretty much nothing (cuz' that's what Milhouse had done up to that point....nuthin') right before he gets axed. Super convenient way for a wolf to appear towny.

The Grumple wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:54 pm i'm sorry everyone. i meant to be more active. life shit's been fucked up lately and i've had no energy.

please know that i am still here, just... slower.

The Grumple wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:37 pm I'm [VOTE: Krusty Krab] aubergine to see how it feels.

Comic Book Guy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:42 pm ok grumple is town.

Grampa Simpson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:08 am

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:06 pm
What are your thoughts on the rest of my reads? Also what about yours as well.

Two of your top town reads are also two of the people who've pushed me hardest, so I can't genuinely answer this with any amount of serious credibility

I absolutely cannot figure out how of all people you mindmeld with Marge the most, because their moments of coherency are sandwiched with absurd takes like vaguely suggesting they've figured out someone's sock identity and that this means the sock is town (logically bankrupt by any measure), or seeing Homer's "nah" response to participating and going "looks good" before dipping

but the above is automatically in question because of Marge's pushes... well, I'm one of them, so it's in my best interest to poke holes in her behaviour

really the thing I keep bumping up against is that it seems like half the people playing can't or won't really involve themselves

here is where Marge might have something when she said at the beginning of D2 that Syndicate wolves care. there are enough people slanking or not doing much that it's not a reliable measurement for scum leans anymore. I think Allison said this too. There's 13 of us and at least five are just not really here, which is different from D1 when the slank crowd was smaller than it is now. Lisa, Marge, Grumple, etc, have all taken their foot off the pedal (a couple have cited RL so fair enough; that's obviously far more important than a Mafia game) today so there's little info to really get from them for now

Still a day left so not a crisis yet, but it's slightly concerning that the thread's really just Otto and CBG slapping at each other, you and me throwing walls up, and then occasional interludes with Allison, Burns, or Krusty pissing in someone's cereal (this isn't a complaint, all three seem rather good at poking holes in things)

The issue with my reads is that they're all based on D1 things, and they can't evolve until the people in question are active D2. Like I scum-lean Homer... because of D1. He's posted a gif D2 and dipped again. Or I'm squinting at Marge... because of D1. She's just said wolves won't slank D2 and dipped again. Then I turn my attention to the people who are frequently posting and my opinion ranges from happy to slightly disappointed. You were low, went up. Otto's been fine. Allison... has been... annoying but fine, I think. She seems to believe in what she's saying, at least. Burns is hostile but I can't actually poke holes in what he says. Bart was decent D1 and is sidelined by RL D2, so can't move the needle on my read on him. Grumple was middle of the pack for me D1 and hasn't done anything to move from that position yet (though that could turn into a suspicious thing if it's D3 or D4 and that's still true). Krusty isn't the most active but he tends to relish being opposite of whoever he's quoting. Sometimes that's intriguing, sometimes it's weird (one minute he'll rally to someone's defense, then soon he's rubbing their nose in a mistake). He's either holding us all accountable or being noncommittal. Haven't decided yet.

And here's the obvious one... CBG is trending down. For, well, *gestures to the last page*. Otto's been taking him to task and I don't think there's anything I can really add that would be helpful or useful, except that based on D1 CBG is capable of more. What I bump up against here is that there's proof in the pudding of the aloof approach not working more than it does in this game, so if he were a wolf it'd be in his best interest to not gamble on something that's already seen to damage one's standing rather than improve. So what's the dealio, yo?

Finally: Principal Skinner. Here is where I rely on my homesite meta again... Where I come from, outed PRs tend to naturally take on a leadership role, even if they have limited actions. They're as close to a lock clear as you can get. Skinner claimed tracker and then claimed to track Otto, which seems like a "hero shot" to me. I won't comment on whether Otto was the best choice, because I don't think it really matters with the setup. What I will comment on is that, barring a counterclaim, Skinner's in one of the best positions to help coral town. As it is, his tracker claim is put in doubt by Otto and he's been a no-show since. It's actually nice that he took the time to reveal the result, but in terms of "PR takes the lead" it's... not great. His ISO is just dire. Nothing good, claimed to dodge the chop, revealed a result, and now nada. Do we believe the claim? Mechanically, to me, I think we should? He's not helping with reads but he's got another track in the barrel. Resolving Skinner can wait until D4 at least. It is a problem that will solve itself and doesn't need pressure from us. He's in my never-chop pile until it starts becoming suspicious that he's still alive. Absolute garbage ISO, but also absolutely no reason to scum-read or push.

You'll note I haven't mentioned Lisa, and that's because I don't know what I think. There's nothing really special there? She hasn't said anything especially weird on either end. The only thing I've mindmelded with is her opinion on subs and what they do to the game state, but that's a broken record at this point. I guess I can't see a strong scum or town lean either way for her. She just is. I guess she's similar to Grumple for me where there is not much to hate or love.

Otto Mann wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:35 am

The Grumple wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:23 am what do u guys think about mr. burns

I'm really stoned rn so I'm not sure I can explain it properly.
But if Burns is scum I think Allison probably is too.

The Grumple wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:15 am

Krusty the Clown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 1:58 amYou're total absence in the thread after what I thought to be an engaged & fruitful start. I also just wanted to shake your tree, see what fell.

hmmm ok

Hugh Jass's novel...to start, the entire.concept came across like "I'm not one for big speeches" and then was followed by a monstrously long speech. I find long winded diatribes easy way for scum to muddy the waters

i think i disagree with this just cus i've been there. falling behind and finally having a time set up to catch up and read and respond to everything all at once. i'll keep a post tab open which i just type thoughts in as they come. this seemed like that to me. and i feel like focusing on the fact that it's a very long post does a disservice to the fact that there's a good amount of analysis in there. though now that you mention it;

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am

Spoiler: show

Finally caught up! I'm feeling things, feeling a lot of things but I'm having trouble trying to put them into words lol. It was also pretty difficult internalizing information, felt like reading posts from new players everywhere and the lack of familiarity with avys I guess you get lost sometimes and don't even remember who said what.

I think my strongest town reads would be Marge, Otto and Alison. Found myself agreeing with like almost everything Marge saying and that's pretty crazy lol. We have the two same scum reads and like most of her posts comes off as natural and you can see her train of thoughts. They're like open and accessible if that makes any sense, doesn't feel like there is an agenda behind them. I usually find the "lol" and other laughing acronyms as scum tells sometimes when they don't really match the tone and vibe of a player, and they're like using them to sweeten their post and comes off as anxious. Here it feels like she's just having fun, and it kind of gives off a good care free vibe that is townie.

Otto and Alison are the og contributors of the thread. I liked the energy they came in with, and it felt like it came with genuine game solving intent. Didn't really agree all that much with some of Otto's reads but they felt genuine, a lot of progression and reconsiderations which makes me feel like he's trying to figure out people for real and not just putting a show. I particularly liked post 72, I think it's the kind of post that only town does. It's nothing fancy but like scum never make them because they're never solving for real. I don't know if this make any sense lol, it's like the kind of self reflecting and gathering of thoughts that comes from a townie mindset when they're trying to get a feel for the state of the game. Agreed with his Gtumple take, felt also genuine and not like him wanting to get Grumple off his back. I understand it too 'cause you usually can have personal takes on how someone is treating you so you can get reads from it, I'm a no u specialist since I feel like I have good instincts for when scum is pushing me for bullshit reasons lol. Overall have the same thought about Alison, I liked her Gramps take and while I started suspecting him for different and more personal reasons, her take are good. The change of speed of Gramps is particularily telling. I also like her feelings about the state of the game and how its going, feel like genuine town concerns.

Pretty much agree with Marge about Homer. The idgaf attitude her and not tailoring his game to people especially after getting prodded is more likely town than not. Also it actually feels genuine, rather than like a scum trying to sell that fake bravado. He kind of embodies it here lol. The lock town on Mill is absolutely beautiful.

I'm having some trouble with CBG, little bit of a love hate relationship. I kind of read his concise posts as town like, they feel like naked thoughts and right to the point. Also some of the silly one liners he's dished have surprisingly pinged me town lol. He has that same attitude vibe that Homer have, although it's not something that is unfakeable (if that is word). Not sure if I'm dumb but post 417 is town for me lmao. We have Mill about to get eliminated, and it's like a meme-y mafia read on him that I just don't think Mafia ever makes. It's fucking hilarious.

Unlike his parents, I have no fucking clue who Bart is. He's in my townpile though. I guess for the bland reasons that his thoughts are genuine bla bla bla lol. I kind of like the little work he's done when he's been playing the game and contributing. Feels real to me, and while it actually matches other peoples reads especially the scum reads, it kind of comes off as he's coming into them on his own like he's playing the game at his own pace.

Kristy, and Lisa are in my PoE. I haven't really figured them out much and some stuff have pinged me. Also not a lot of things to work with. Krusty gives off a weird disattached vibe, like he's a robot if that makes sense lol. There is like no emotion accompanying his posts and it comes off as if he's not actually trying to figure people out just asking questions. Speaking of questions, I'm not seeing him reach much conclusions and seems like he's just faking contributions through those questions who don't seem most of the time to be stuff that will actually help him figure someone out. More like bland and semantic stuff that I guess help him fake contribution. I think his take on Mill's wall post is the kind of wolfy remark used to shade others. He's like piggy backing off others when they're discussing Mill, and he just pops in to point out something that can be seen as scummy and then nothing further. He dips from there with clean hands. Kind of saw it that way.

Not a big fan of Lisa's little contribution. Feels like she's hunting some easy posts to go off of, and then just share some bland takes. She's kind of using them to appear as if contributing. It's not the lack of reasoning that is off to me, it's more like they seem to be random as hell. There is no train of thoughts or contuinity to them, she's not like quoting different posts about a same discussion trying to give her thoughts about them or add to the discussion. She's more putting her hand into a lot of different discussion to I guess appear more visible, and broaden her reach.

Already talked about Gramps and Burns who are at the bottom of my PoE. Haven't really moved much off of them after catching up completely, although I'd say I'm still mulling over some things I've seen from Gramps. Also the inactives thing could be a culture/playstyle clash, but even then I'm not a big fan of the rest of his contribution. The gear shift that Alison built her case on is something I agree with as well. Scums are more likely to make it when called out, and it kind of shows that whatever vibe or attitude they had prior was fake.

I still fucking hate Mr. Burns with a passion. I think he was trying to discredit early on Alison and Otto with the fear mongering about them potentially power wolfing. It's a cheap way to shade someone while posing it as a an open ended question, "oh I'm just aking myself" "I'm not sure". It sounds so fucking fake, and it's usually the kind of cowardy wolf tactics to shade loud voices. No fucking townie put that thought out there immediately. It's so slimy lol.

I've got more thoughts there, and also more thoughts in general but this is it for this post. It actually fucking sucks to come from behind 'cause I have so many problems trying to put into words everything I want to say lol. I guess that'll serve me missing the whole phase. Hopefully I'll keep being up to date this phase. I initially thought about iso-ing every single player and then sharing my thoughts posts by posts as that'd be easier, but fuck that lmao.

Mr. Jass, did you come out of this read/analysis with any particular strong negative reads, and if so what are you doing with them?

Bart Simpson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:20 am Fragmenting it, I hate walls

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am Finally caught up! I'm feeling things, feeling a lot of things but I'm having trouble trying to put them into words lol. It was also pretty difficult internalizing information, felt like reading posts from new players everywhere and the lack of familiarity with avys I guess you get lost sometimes and don't even remember who said what.

I can relate with loosing track of who said what in any anon game, usually until i succeed to remember everyone is already day 3 and mafia is super towny and winning with ease

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am
I think my strongest town reads would be Marge, Otto and Alison. Found myself agreeing with like almost everything Marge saying and that's pretty crazy lol. We have the two same scum reads and like most of her posts comes off as natural and you can see her train of thoughts. They're like open and accessible if that makes any sense, doesn't feel like there is an agenda behind them. I usually find the "lol" and other laughing acronyms as scum tells sometimes when they don't really match the tone and vibe of a player, and they're like using them to sweeten their post and comes off as anxious. Here it feels like she's just having fun, and it kind of gives off a good care free vibe that is townie.

Agree with Marge, mom is cool

But with Otto and Alison looks like a thread consensus. Is it a bad thing? There is also further reasoning about them rather than just an alignment stance.

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am
Otto and Alison are the og contributors of the thread. I liked the energy they came in with, and it felt like it came with genuine game solving intent. Didn't really agree all that much with some of Otto's reads but they felt genuine, a lot of progression and reconsiderations which makes me feel like he's trying to figure out people for real and not just putting a show. I particularly liked post 72, I think it's the kind of post that only town does. It's nothing fancy but like scum never make them because they're never solving for real. I don't know if this make any sense lol, it's like the kind of self reflecting and gathering of thoughts that comes from a townie mindset when they're trying to get a feel for the state of the game. Agreed with his Gtumple take, felt also genuine and not like him wanting to get Grumple off his back. I understand it too 'cause you usually can have personal takes on how someone is treating you so you can get reads from it, I'm a no u specialist since I feel like I have good instincts for when scum is pushing me for bullshit reasons lol. Overall have the same thought about Alison, I liked her Gramps take and while I started suspecting him for different and more personal reasons, her take are good. The change of speed of Gramps is particularily telling. I also like her feelings about the state of the game and how its going, feel like genuine town concerns.

My only problem here is the amount of words, these things should be written in a smaller post. This is like obvious solvy, like he wanted to show skills.
Like a peacock showing coloured feathers.
I admire him but I am not convinced

I wanted to make one post with everything, I had like tons of tabs open mostly consisting of ISOs and one of the main thread. Basically not to lose my train of thoughts. Why is the amount of words an issue? I'd argue when one has trouble putting their thoughts into words as I mentioned, they tend to be overly wordy because they're unable to precisely portray them. Like most of the time I'm not sure if my description of the feelings I had when pinged either way by a post made sense. It's that description that brings the length lol.

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am
Pretty much agree with Marge about Homer. The idgaf attitude her and not tailoring his game to people especially after getting prodded is more likely town than not. Also it actually feels genuine, rather than like a scum trying to sell that fake bravado. He kind of embodies it here lol. The lock town on Mill is absolutely beautiful.

Yes... maybe

Talk to me about him.

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am
I'm having some trouble with CBG, little bit of a love hate relationship. I kind of read his concise posts as town like, they feel like naked thoughts and right to the point. Also some of the silly one liners he's dished have surprisingly pinged me town lol. He has that same attitude vibe that Homer have, although it's not something that is unfakeable (if that is word). Not sure if I'm dumb but post 417 is town for me lmao. We have Mill about to get eliminated, and it's like a meme-y mafia read on him that I just don't think Mafia ever makes. It's fucking hilarious.

Probably clearing CBG for wrong reasons here

Expand.

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am
Unlike his parents, I have no fucking clue who Bart is. He's in my townpile though. I guess for the bland reasons that his thoughts are genuine bla bla bla lol. I kind of like the little work he's done when he's been playing the game and contributing. Feels real to me, and while it actually matches other peoples reads especially the scum reads, it kind of comes off as he's coming into them on his own like he's playing the game at his own pace.

When i first read this long post i felt pocketed by this read, because it's true. I said that this guy should be villager because of this. Meanwhile happened that another game in other site finished and 3 from 4 wolves pocketed me with what i thought are solid reasons.
I don't say Hugh is a wolf for this but i will not give him town cred

I tried

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am
Kristy, and Lisa are in my PoE. I haven't really figured them out much and some stuff have pinged me. Also not a lot of things to work with. Krusty gives off a weird disattached vibe, like he's a robot if that makes sense lol. There is like no emotion accompanying his posts and it comes off as if he's not actually trying to figure people out just asking questions. Speaking of questions, I'm not seeing him reach much conclusions and seems like he's just faking contributions through those questions who don't seem most of the time to be stuff that will actually help him figure someone out. More like bland and semantic stuff that I guess help him fake contribution. I think his take on Mill's wall post is the kind of wolfy remark used to shade others. He's like piggy backing off others when they're discussing Mill, and he just pops in to point out something that can be seen as scummy and then nothing further. He dips from there with clean hands. Kind of saw it that way.

Again too many words for so little activity

What's the little activity here? Also back to the point I made earlier in the post about the description stuff. Like I'm failing to see how this is any different then the Marge read. Disagreeing with the take or the reasoning/pings about the specific posts and tone is one thing, dismissing it like this is another story.

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am
Not a big fan of Lisa's little contribution. Feels like she's hunting some easy posts to go off of, and then just share some bland takes. She's kind of using them to appear as if contributing. It's not the lack of reasoning that is off to me, it's more like they seem to be random as hell. There is no train of thoughts or contuinity to them, she's not like quoting different posts about a same discussion trying to give her thoughts about them or add to the discussion. She's more putting her hand into a lot of different discussion to I guess appear more visible, and broaden her reach.

You know who keeps track of their own thoughts and rarely are wrong in their thoughts' flow? Competent wolves...
Maybe sis is just busy?

That's not exactly what I was talking about. I'm not holding against her thoughts consistency stuff in general, it's not really a scum tell for me. My gripe with how she's contributing. It feels like she's mostly picking out post to quote and piggy back off, she's not really adding to discussion in a way that's game solving or advancing the game. Like there isn't really pertinent points or reaching conclusions, and it's a cheap way to milk interaction and visibility.

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am
Already talked about Gramps and Burns who are at the bottom of my PoE. Haven't really moved much off of them after catching up completely, although I'd say I'm still mulling over some things I've seen from Gramps. Also the inactives thing could be a culture/playstyle clash, but even then I'm not a big fan of the rest of his contribution. The gear shift that Alison built her case on is something I agree with as well. Scums are more likely to make it when called out, and it kind of shows that whatever vibe or attitude they had prior was fake.

Yes?

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am
I still fucking hate Mr. Burns with a passion. I think he was trying to discredit early on Alison and Otto with the fear mongering about them potentially power wolfing. It's a cheap way to shade someone while posing it as a an open ended question, "oh I'm just aking myself" "I'm not sure". It sounds so fucking fake, and it's usually the kind of cowardy wolf tactics to shade loud voices. No fucking townie put that thought out there immediately. It's so slimy lol.

Idk, hard to say he didn't points out a real thing here.

How so?

Hugh Jass wrote: ↑Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:54 am
I've got more thoughts there, and also more thoughts in general but this is it for this post. It actually fucking sucks to come from behind 'cause I have so many problems trying to put into words everything I want to say lol. I guess that'll serve me missing the whole phase. Hopefully I'll keep being up to date this phase. I initially thought about iso-ing every single player and then sharing my thoughts posts by posts as that'd be easier, but fuck that lmao.

Oh no, please don't wall post again.

I won't lol

Overall this post is perfect, an awesome mafia lesson and any critic may only say is too long.
I am affraid i know who Hugh is, realised at the middle of the post

Who is Hugh Jass

Tryping the post I was sure someone would figure out who I was because of it

Bart Simpson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:36 pm I have a dangerous amount of heebie jeebies from this post

Bart Simpson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:36 pm Is this implying a read too?

Lisa Simpson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:52 pm

Lisa Simpson wrote: ↑Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:47 pm Is it me or does it feel like Grumple fell down a flight of stairs in the middle of D1

He seems to know what a player salad is but doesn't know what TR means. Just seems odd to me. I don't know why one would fake it though but just putting this down since i noticed alot of his posts D2 are just asking about terminology.