The Syndicate

Always nice to get into a game after a month of hosting. It's an irritating experience to a narcissist to see others doing things in ways I wouldn't do them. Now I can do things the way I would do them.

I, JaggedJimmyJay, site administrator and long-time Mafia enthusiast, am a member of the town faction. Oh good gravy!

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:34 pm

Justplayingitcool wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:30 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:28 pm So who else is town?

im town lol

You're my top scum read so far

Tell me why! I have a theory! If your answer matches my theory we'll be in business falcon45ca! We'll be cooking with gas!

!

MacDougall, you do whatever you like and that will be just fine.

falcon and Mac are both civilians.

My read on JPIC is I could call this guy mafia for reasons that would not inspire me, but they are still reasons so if other people are suspicious that's just dandy m'kay.

I intended to try out my new read Mac as civilian immediately and don't deviate until given a good reason strategy this game, and it feels kinda wasted since I think he just is civilian without the cheeky read. Maybe next time.

I voted 6pm because my doctoral advisor loves to call around 7pm and talk my ear off for 90 minutes, so it'd make EOD difficult sometimes.

But I'm one guy and in the most privileged time zone. Whatever's good with me.

Any page one reads for me yet Hang on Sloony

Wow. Excuse me? Wow. Wow.

Okay.

My read on Alison is [redacted until conversation develops].

I made my own pizza today. I didn't do it from scratch, but I assembled toppings onto a blank slab of dough. Diced tomatoes, green and red peppers, and broccoli populated my pizza today.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:06 pm setup spec time: i wonder if this is multiball

I bet mafia-aligned players are more likely to conceive of this by page two than civilians are. How about THAT?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:06 pm setup spec time: i wonder if this is multiball

I bet mafia-aligned players are more likely to conceive of this by page two than civilians are. How about THAT?

Answer me twice.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:09 pm

KZA wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:07 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:06 pm setup spec time: i wonder if this is multiball

why are you on a relatively small mafia team?

well now, aren't you one for jumping to conclusions

TonyStarkPrime, why did I just cringe at one of your posts on page 2 with my actual human face?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:10 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:10 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:09 pm

KZA wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:07 pm

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:06 pm setup spec time: i wonder if this is multiball

why are you on a relatively small mafia team?

well now, aren't you one for jumping to conclusions

TonyStarkPrime, why did I just cringe at one of your posts on page 2 with my actual human face?

i was trying to roleplay smh

I defer to Fargo people. I don't know Fargo. I think I saw a movie called Fargo? I defer to Fargo people.

I have decided to add KZA to my civilian pile. The "mindmeld" response to Tony isn't really important to me, but I appreciate the reversion from snap suspicion to snap support on the basis of something very small like "role playing in front of me". #87 -- looks authentic

This game already feels like a civilian win. Strut your stuff town gang and we can climb the 2021 leaderboard in no time. Just do your thing, because you've been blessed with a state of total solving comfort.

To someone without deep knowledge of the setup or the Fargo theme, there would seem to be two available theories about why someone else would immediately speculate about multiball:

1) That someone is on a mafia team and has some unique insight indicating that it's possible.

2) Fargo as a theme presents some unique structure that could be appropriate for multiball.

I don't fault Sloonei for his interpretation, and it seems evident Tony is familiar with the theme. So #2 is fine.

I would be nice if other people would talk about Sloonei's Alison read and/or about Sloonei or Alison separately. My read on both players is in the I'm not telling zone until further notice.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:04 pm hi im gay =)

hi gay im dad

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:07 pmI am wary of the motivation for Alison to claim exactly like this in her entry post. She is explicitly wedging herself into a pre-formed town-core via this claim. It seems as though she has the confidence to project this claim into the thread right off the bat because she is comfortable declaring town reads on Mac and Jay ~20 posts into the game. I don't disagree with either of those reads, but it feels like Alison has pre-concocted a plan to drop this partial claim which hinges on these other "strong players" also being town. I question whether Alison would make this claim if she didn't have those town reads, but I also question that she would be confident enough in these reads to make the claim only 20 posts in.

In the Mafia Alison world, she wants to wedge herself into a towncore of her own invention by capitalizing on an advantageous role which can (presumably) be used to appear as mechanically confirmed later down the line (we explicitly are told that we know nothing about the setup. Any variety of a role claim should be taken with a grain of salt right now), and pocketing a few of the more authoritative voices in the thread right off the bat.

Some similar concerns have at least passed through my head. I don't have the same "early" anecdotes to reference -- I'm not sure I played in any relevant game. I do have a basic meta parallel however, from Bread Mafia, wherein Alison's first play was to spam similar town reads (including a frivolous town read on me) to ingratiate herself in an early town core. Notably she included her own teammate (DkKoba) in that example. Click here to reference that game in Alison's ISO, and scroll to the bottom for game-opening posts.

It's a very specific comparison, so I take it with a few grains of salt. For this game perhaps my most immediate attention is directed to:

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:14 pmDear mafia: I am a provable town sided PR.

My first instinct is to shrug and say "okay". It depends on what "town-sided" really means in this context and on what Alison means to do with that. We'll see. Otherwise I don't view her as a civilian read to this point.

My read on tutuu's energetic openings -- No read exists, please provide new input.

My read on tutuu's initial reads -- They're fine I guess. Consensus.

My perspective of tutuu -- No gripes, read will develop with more original contribution once she has acclimated. Cannot call town read with any confidence.

@staypositivefriend whaddya find encouraging about tutuu's posts?

I agree with none of falcon's Sloonei suspicions, and I think falcon looks very much like a civilian.

Good start for SPF.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:28 pm I have good news.

Congratulations on your new baby!!!!

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:30 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:29 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:28 pm I have good news.

Congratulations on your new baby!!!!

Thanks. We're naming him "Jay is Town."

Esooa has stated three suspicions that all look rather baked to me, and for similar reasons: doubling down on something unworthy of a stubborn view. This applies to her treatment of KZA, SPF, and myself -- primarily the former two since those have already involved direct interaction. The spoiler contains some of the receipts; I'm not going to spam them all in there though.

Griping with KZA about "not sure it's real" vs. "not sure it's legitimate" -- I'm not sure that's real.

Griping with SPF about taking a reserved approach to reading her after one or two games in which she made incorrect town reads -- at the least I don't think that's reasonable.

Griping with me for various level one beefs e.g. "showiness" or "made a post without a clear read in it". Refusing to view me through a "would make better posts if he was mafia" lens after meeting resistance to that read even though one of her gripes with me was that I did basically the same thing with Tony (didn't immediately assume he wouldn't make a post that is on the surface suspicious or that it's not worth poking him over on page one) It all feels a bit like activity inflation more than it feels like an effort to solve.

To be clear: I have no present suspicion of Tony. I couldn't confidently call him town either, but I don't care about his multiball inquiries. It's evident (and I think Alison may have missed) that his inquiry is based somehow in the Fargo theme -- that the characters of the show may lend themselves to that kind of game structure. So fine, I have no opinion of that. I have no memory of the show.

Regarding multiball though: I tend to interpret the game rules in the OP as suggestive of just one mafia team. It's not a certainty. We'll see anyway. If there are multiple we'll just have to hope that's made explicit (perhaps via different team names), or that's nigh unsolvable.

Strawhenge looks like a civilian. His approach so far takes on a certain tone and pace that in recent memory I have come to associate with his specific niche here: player returning after long hiatus. The last example for me was fingersplints in the "Mafia" racket, and there are some immediate similarities:

~ Earnest effort to get involved
~ Uneasiness about how to actually do that and shake off the rust
~ Hard time making reads when thrust back into the Mafia environment, particularly when the game is moving fast
~ Not trying at all to appear any less intimidated than he really is
~ Despite all of that, trying to make inquiries and prods that could conceivably help him find his footing

I think this is the first time I have made a read of this kind, at least based upon a perceived "trend" -- so I acknowledge that it's not evidence based from a wealth of past observations. But it's the vibe and I'm comfortable with it.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:11 am eso vs jayjay 1v1 is weird to me so i wanna call it w/w but its never w/w ppl rarely thunderdome hard bus here i think. but they should more. more ACTION. BLOOD. GLADIATOR. ARENA

but yes due to site meta and my understanding of jay and eso's meta they're probably not w/w unfortunately

I understand the perception, and I would like to encourage folks to try their best to avoid exclusively looking at the Esooa/JJJ dynamic purely in terms of "is it mafia/mafia? is it town/town? is it something else?" Go crazy with those reads if you like, but also assess the actual content of what each of us has said and decide how y'all feel about that.

I am not nearly confident enough to crusade against Esooa, but I have stated my early concerns. And she has stated hers. Those things warrant investigation.

I am comfortable with this as a town pile so far:

falcon
Mac
KZA
Sloonei
SPF
Strawhenge

Not a bad haul at all for the first 11ish hours of a Day 0. Keep it up gang.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:28 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:22 pm @staypositivefriend whaddya find encouraging about tutuu's posts?

i am partially contrasting her opening in this game with her opening in bread mafia. tutuu got "into the action" right away in bread mafia and immediately started outing strong, overconfident reads. it's very clear (in hindsight) that tutuu felt like she needed to join in on the "solving" in bread mafia as a way to establish herself into the towncore

this game has started similarly to bread mafia (lots of solving, lots of reads being thrown around), but tutuu's entrance was totally unconcerned w/finding reads on other people - it was solely focused on herself. i didn't get the impression that tutuu felt like she needed to "blend in" with the thread in the same way that she did when she played bread mafia

of course, i'm sure that tutuu has a large scumrange, but her general opening posts gave me a good impression

To expand on my view of SPF: I liked this. SPF answered my question within about a six minute space, so in a [relatively] quick time frame she put together a read that I find nuanced and insightful. In that way it looks authentic to me, like it reflects real thoughts from her real brain. I think it's also a valid observation, that tutuu's entry is different in tone and in focus than what we saw from her mafia game in Bread Mafia (Click here and scroll down for tutuu's ISO in that game).

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:34 am spf very smart but JUST BE WARNED she says that she finds it easier and quicker to come up with big reads as mafia than as town. coz she finds faking it very easy, as town it takes her longer coz they're actually real and real and good is very often not logical

Warning officially acknowledged.

SPF's a great player. Rest assured I will continue to assess as the game progresses.

I think we might need to have a philosophical dialogue after the game on the wisdom of blowing up Day 0 before everyone/most people have had a chance to acknowledge that the game exists and put themselves in it. I seems both anti-town and anti-mafia, so it's not necessarily a problem. Post at will my friends. But maybe I'll be a narcissist later, look at my own posts post-game, and remember from this one that it's conversation time.

I think the spirit of fingersplints' posts convey a civilian character. I'm not sure I'll have confidence for process of elimination purposes without more direct hunting content. For the soul read though I am okay with calling her town.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:03 am My teammates told me I should start posting so here I am

I take this joke non-zero seriously.

I'd been under the impression numerous people hadn't appeared yet, but the poll suggests otherwise. We're short only Dom and Michelle now, I believe. And I bet they split their votes based on location.

BoKnows wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:08 am on a scale from 1-10 how important is this day0 talk?

7 or 8

Important enough to be justified in existing, and it has produced for a number of people a strong set of early town reads. Not important enough to force yourself to read every single post if you don't want to. But if you don't, you should say new things on your own.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:50 am i think nook town

Whatcha like, toots?

If this Day 0 poll remains logjammed, which I tend to anticipate with one east-American and one European left to vote, then I suggest one of the 8pm folks move to 6pm. I think it's less reasonable to ask Europeans to be awake at 1am or later than it is to ask west-Americans to be around at 3pm. I acknowledge it'd also be 8am for the poor folks on the Australian east coast.

How does everyone feel about our Day 0 game state? What are your general vibes, Mafia players of Fargo Mafia?

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:36 am I don't have any outright scumreads at the moment. A couple eyebrow-perking things that I've already mentioned (mostly the reactions to Alison's PR claim), but that's about it.

The only thing I'm directly interested in with her claim is: in a game designed to make nothing 'provable' until someone's card flips upon death, I'm interested in seeing how her PR is 'provable'.

Any town reads, Señor Strawhenge?

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:56 am apparently me quoting kza to say "weird champ post" is a scum read but jjj quoting someone to say what they did is >rand mafia isn't

you love to see it

I don't know what this means.

Both comments are accusatory. Neither of them is well-founded. Neither of them needs to be well-founded.

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:06 pm Just town-leans, nothing solid so far:

Alison reads like an earnest townie trying to do anti-scum work—even if I don't agree/don't have the meta to agree. (e.g. TSP spilling TMI; I still don't see it, but )

falcon and MacDougall's Page 1 vigilance wrt JPIC's 'im town lol' post feels like very authentic scumhunter behavior.

I'm actually more nervous about the RYM crew than I am about new-to-me players, but you, RaggedRimmyRay, read like your usual supertown self—however with much more restraint / less immediate tenacity than what I remember. That could mean you're hiding something (for good or ill), but it also could mean that your meta has evolved these past six years. What gives me the town lean the most is that you're trying to get everyone to talk and generate read-material. The TownyTimmyTay that I know casts a loose but far-reaching net.

Cool beans, thanks. How do you feel about Sloonei's concerns about Alison?

You're right that I'm more restrained. I think it's a product of the era more than anything. Back on RYM and earlier in my Syndicate tenure, I often felt the onus was on me to make games move -- that if I didn't post my arse off early and often, that games would stagnate. That may have been narcissistic of me at the time, though there were absolutely instances where it proved accurate. These days I am simply not needed for that purpose. Games explode into action with or without my help, because this modern crew is already naturally inclined to do all that. So it's nice to be able to reserve my comments a bit more and play more efficiently without feeling like it's going to cause the game to turn into a cadaver.

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:07 pmI literally said after like 1 post talking to kza that it's not really important

I did almost the exact same thing with my read on Tony. What's your beef?

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:07 pmthe problem with spfs read on me has NOTHING to do with the fact she misread me before. That was over a month ago and we have played two t/t games together since then in which she did not have a problem giving a read on me

Yeah, that's the point. Why does it have nothing to do with that fact? Is it not relevant?

Sloonei is town.

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:16 pm my beef is my day zero read is being simultaneously discredited while being given importance to

I don't know how to explain that more

I believe that you don't know how to explain it more, and that's fine. I still don't understand what you're saying, but I get the impression this entire dialogue has encountered a communication breakdown somewhere. Oh well.

Esooa wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:16 pmI don't think it has any to do with misreading me because the apprehension, if it existed, would have more strongly existed directly after misreading me, not a month later. It makes no sense to me to misread me, attempt to read me twice after and be correct, then decide you're not good enough at reading me to give a thought

the timeline there is just weird

however I'm not calling jess necessarily scum for it as I did have less content than normal and it may just have to do with how she's feeling about this game

Perhaps I am missing some context. I was under the impression SPF's last game with you was Fallout 2, when she read you incorrectly, and that another recent example of the same mistake exists somewhere on the internet. Is that not the case? I literally don't know.