The Syndicate

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:31 pm the risks associated with this game.

if you break a rule, Marmot comes to your house at night and breaks your arms

Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:31 pm We're heading for the mountains after all. I need to know that you're ready and have read the Safety Protocol.

If you die in Mountain Mafia, you die in Real Life.

Are you telling me there are mountains taller than 5000 miles????????

meters. got it.

I've missed this.

Has everyone checked in yet?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:18 pm

Mesk514 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:16 pm is a civilian good here? I'm pretty sure someone told me a civilian is scum... I am good, fear me!

Who told you a civilian is "scum?"

And even if someone did, why would you believe it?

Hey, who told you that?

Glorfy and Dom haven't checked in to the thread, Mesk and Spacedaisy haven't voted in the poll but are here.

Quin wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:50 pm ima vote epignosis whenever and i'd like someone to tell me why that is

what does this sentence mean?

do you want other people to tell you why you are going to vote for mr gnosis?

Mesk514 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:51 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:18 pm

Mesk514 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:16 pm is a civilian good here? I'm pretty sure someone told me a civilian is scum... I am good, fear me!

Who told you a civilian is "scum?"

And even if someone did, why would you believe it?

i think this is something someone said in a discord chat when i first joined, or one of the nubs who played in my game off site said something about it before this game started

i don't know if i believe it, hence why i am asking...

I don't think me or dunya said that during Instant, maybe someone said it on discord.

I think we have multiple terms for things here but the popular ones are "Good Boys" for the uninformed majority and "Bad Boys" for the informed minority.

Oh and, "Wild Boys" is the common term for Indy roles.

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:17 am ... I have never heard the terms "Good boys" "Bad boys" or "Wild boys" used here. Are you from an alternate reality?

It's gonna become the new thing. Just you wait.

Hey Jack quick question, about how does accusing someone of being one of the Good Boyz poke them?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:24 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:23 am Hey Jack quick question, about how does accusing someone of being one of the Good Boyz poke them?

Can I answer?

I wanna hear from Jack :0

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:26 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:25 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:24 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:23 am Hey Jack quick question, about how does accusing someone of being one of the Good Boyz poke them?

Can I answer?

I wanna hear from Jack :0

Then I won't answer.

What do you think about Quin?

I think Quin's throwing sticks early on which is generally a sign of good boy behavior.

ok I'm gonna ask actually, what's the deal with trust meta

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:52 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:51 am ok I'm gonna ask actually, what's the deal with trust meta

what do you mean?

The whole point of poking is to make someone feel uncomfortable and cause them to react, right?

Well... What kind of reaction can you get by saying you trust someone? What would qualify as a baddie reaction to that.

Looking back I see that Jack asked for Spirityo's reads in the same post so that's probably what he meant by poking actually

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:12 amWhat would qualify as a dangerous bad boy reaction to that.

fix

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:18 amMaybe Jack (or any player) wants to see how another player responds to the appearance of trust. Maybe sprityo accepts it unconditionally, maybe he rejects it and throws it back in Jack's face, maybe he is skeptical but open to it, etc. I don't know why Jack has done the things he's done, but I don't think it's a terrible play to announce trust early on. But like I've said already, I'm pretty open to any strategy that encourages activity on Day 1.

that's a valid point that I hadn't considered.

I'd really like to hear [mention]Mesk514[/mention]'s thoughts on current events. My thoughts are clouded by past meta and I think an outsiders' viewpoint could bring some clarity

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:46 pm Changed my vote to kyle. Kylemii, what do you think about Epi and all the people who have expressed thoughts on him so far?

Oh, hello. I've been waiting to see how Epig would respond to LC's suspicion. Parts of his response have made me feel better but other parts have made me feel worse. In general any time an accused player (or an accuser) uses hyperbole or mischaracterizes the argument against them, it looks bad to me, and I'm seeing that with Epig rn, homing in on the reference to buddying as a "long term strategy" and claiming that LC knows who the Goods Boyz are because he referred to 3 players as civs. It argues against the words of the case without really fighting the spirit of it

LC... My number #1 priority in any game we're both in is to figure out where he stands. He's a skilled manipulator and scumhunter depending on what his situation requires. He is 8x better than me at everything I believe I'm good at and on some level I think i probably wanna be him when I grow up. LC is absolutely 100% nutsy enough to lead a lynch on day 0 regardless of whether he's town boy or a crime boy.

I'm not sure who else gave opinions on the issue other than you and Quin, I'd have to reread you both to give a good impression

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:46 pm Changed my vote to kyle. Kylemii, what do you think about Epi and all the people who have expressed thoughts on him so far?

Oh, hello. I've been waiting to see how Epig would respond to LC's suspicion. Parts of his response have made me feel better but other parts have made me feel worse. In general any time an accused player (or an accuser) uses hyperbole or mischaracterizes the argument against them, it looks bad to me, and I'm seeing that with Epig rn, homing in on the reference to buddying as a "long term strategy" and claiming that LC knows who the Goods Boyz are because he referred to 3 players as civs. It argues against the words of the case without really fighting the spirit of it

LC... My number #1 priority in any game we're both in is to figure out where he stands. He's a skilled manipulator and scumhunter depending on what his situation requires. He is 8x better than me at everything I believe I'm good at and on some level I think i probably wanna be him when I grow up. LC is absolutely 100% nutsy enough to lead a lynch on day 0 regardless of whether he's town boy or a crime boy.

I'm not sure who else gave opinions on the issue other than you and Quin, I'd have to reread you both to give a good impression

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:11 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:51 pm I'd really like to hear Mesk514's thoughts on current events. My thoughts are clouded by past meta and I think an outsiders' viewpoint could bring some clarity

I don't like this post. In Pirates mafia (the one and only game I've ever seen Kyle play to this point), he was an active force early in the game. He's been more passive so far in this game, so I prodded him for reads. Five minutes later, he came out with this, absent of content but calling for more content from the newcomer. This post is fluff and an excuse to delay participation in the game.

you made your post while I was making mine, did you expect me to drop everything and respond to you? it's 9 an dude. one thing at a time.

In the pirates game my day 1 involvement was mostly getting to know new players questions and passively observing the current thread dynamics. I got called out for it and almost got lynched for it like twice. How closely were you reading the game?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:41 pm Kyle is like 10 right? DDL's kid?

Yes that is correct DDL is my dad.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:15 am

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:23 am Hey Jack quick question, about how does accusing someone of being one of the Good Boyz poke them?

I take it you aren't married, having never poked someone in a nice way.

Also, there is no trust exercise. I was just saying hi.

the implication of this joke is that you're married to sprityo

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:51 pmIt's 12:51 pm. Lynch all liars.

it's 10:53, it was 9:30 when I woke up

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:52 pm but you didn't get lynched. I saw you making things happen. I don't see that here yet.

whether or not I got lynch is irrelevant, the relevant part is that you should remember how that game went.

name one thing that i made happen during the first day of the pirates game. I asked questions about dogs and I think I cobbled together a read list at some point because I had 3 hours without anything better to do, bcus it was a small game filled with players I'd never met.

My most active decision was maintaining a tied vote on MP late in the day phase

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:57 pmKyle didn't make anything happen D1 pirates. He came out good due to his vote but he was fairly passive and focused on meta. Like the kid said, he got called out for it.

Wow???? It hurts to hear someone else say it

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:11 pm On Kyle - Obvious difference in the amount of posts between pirate Mafia and this one, even considering shorter phase lengths and the whole debacle at EoD1. Looks bad at face value, like a baddie who can't insert himself properly but I won't condemn him on that alone. We (or I) don't know where to set the baseline for his civilian game.

His content here isn't really fluff, but his thoughts haven't come together in the thread the way I'd like given the 24 hour day phases. They're not particularly useful to me as they are. I'd like some more elaborated stuff from him soon if he's up to it.

24 hour day phases????????????????????????

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:59 am If Long Con is a civilian, then is most likely means he is genuine in his suspicion of me.

If his suspicion is genuine, then his accusation that I am being deliberate and calculating in my dealings thus far should be one that he can logically explain.

In other words, if I know what I'm doing (i.e., being deliberate in "setting up a long game"), and Long Con is calling me out on that, then he should be able to explain how my actions in the thread so far will benefit my team and me down the road. What is the long game and how am I expecting it to play out?

If he can't answer that, then his suspicion isn't genuine, and he's trying to get a quick and easy Day 1 lynch out of the way.

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] or [mention]Sloonei[/mention] or whoever it was who asked

iirc this is the post that gave me cause for pause, it read as authentic to me but his posts since then have soured me on him due to the hyperboles and strawman arguments

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:31 pmI don't want to discuss another game any further in this thread. I just want you to continue sharing the thoughts that you have about this game.

wellllll, that was the plan before you interrupted me. now that I know we have 10 hours and not 34 left I intend to get down to it.

but it won't cost me any of my time or energy for you to explain your motivation so I'm fine with you doing that.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:40 pm Epi, do you agree with kyle's assessment that you were attacking LC with hyperbole and strawmen?

Kyle, have you had a chance to dig into anyone else yet?

I didn't say he was attacking LC with hyperbole and strawmen I said he was defending himself by turning LC into a strawman.

Maybe strawman is the wrong word, but I think focusing on the "long game planning aspect" of the argument allows you to ignore the part of the argument where it's actually just really weird to make a positive declaration towards anyone one day 0, or 1 without any kind og motivation behind it. [mention]Epignosis[/mention]

trusting people without factual backup is unnatural. it's an aberration. mafia play with facts from the start so it's easier

let's put LC's case aside for a sec, why Cbob? why Mesk?

So then is your reasoning for not necessarily having all the facts correct that it stirs the pot regardless and the end justifies the means? [mention]Sloonei[/mention]

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:12 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:09 pm trusting people without factual backup is unnatural. it's an aberration. mafia play with facts from the start so it's easier

let's put LC's case aside for a sec, why Cbob? why Mesk?

I didn't say I trusted them.

I already talked about colonialbob and Mesk.

So you don't think they're good necessarily... you just said you didn't think you'd vote for them.

In that post you did imply you trusted Mesk at least a little bit more because she hadn't apparently read the roles, do you have anything to add to that?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:19 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:13 pm So then is your reasoning for not necessarily having all the facts correct that it stirs the pot regardless and the end justifies the means? Sloonei

I'll never have all the facts about a game that I'm playing in, and the best that we can do is make the most of what is observable to us. The more that is observable, the stronger our foundation will be, so I like to make people talk. I like to think that I'm an avid pot stirrer, and my means are in the interest of solving the game, so I certainly feel justified in prodding people.
How do you feel about my vote being on you right now?

You had access to more facts about the pirate game than anyone did, is the thing, depending on how closely you followed the game. Still I respect your answer.

I'm.... Honestly not bothered by it. I get early votes in a lot of games I'm in, and it usually leads to me not getting night killed and having more time to figure out who the mafia is.

I just want to submit as a data point that the new Pokémon game released 3 days ago and according to the in game time log I've played it for almost 35 hours, so that may be an explanation for my being less active

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:47 pm okay this has turned into nonsensical arguments that are getting us nowhere. remind me to never again sign up for a game with both Epi and LC because it just always turns into this and we never make progress

Nutella, does this mean you think LC v Epi is a goose chase?

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:03 pm In short, they're filler posts, attempts by a Bad Boy to be present and seem relevant.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i love you for this

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:40 pmYou have to assume three people are civilians to arrive at the conclusion that I am bad. Let that sink in.

Epi I have a huge problem with this line of logic because determining people's relationships to each other while also keeping in mind the uncertainty of other people's motivations is *literally* the entire point of this game.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:47 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:46 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:40 pmYou have to assume three people are civilians to arrive at the conclusion that I am bad. Let that sink in.

Epi I have a huge problem with this line of logic because determining people's relationships to each other while also keeping in mind the uncertainty of other people's motivations is *literally* the entire point of this game.

So if I assume three people you've interacted with are good to conclude that you are mafia, how'd that be?

if you're mafia for the prescribed reasons then it also stands to reason that the 3 people you interacted with would be more likely to be civ.

Interacting the way you did with any of them would be unusual if you were both wolves would be unusual.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:58 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:57 pmwould be unusual if you were both wolves would be unusual

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:01 pmDamn, being mafia must be easy if all you have to do to win is something unusual.

that is also an integral premise of the game.

Epi who do you suspect? Who do you think is good?

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:10 pmI thought I was throwing sticks in Pirate Mafia too, but I was your biggest scum read. What's the difference?

I thought you were bad because you and MP didn't want to lynch each other. It seemed like you and he were both being saved by the Wilgy Wagon.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:14 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:51 pm I'd really like to hear Mesk514's thoughts on current events. My thoughts are clouded by past meta and I think an outsiders' viewpoint could bring some clarity

Not a fan. It looks like he's hiding from the thread again. Kyle hasn't played with a fair number of people before (or at least since he's been on the Syndicate), so there's no real reason for being 'clouded'.

Also every 5 seconds in this post the Mesk mention comes up even though i havent even mentioned him and its driving me crazy

I have played maybe dozens of games with LC and at least a dozen with Epi.

Also, I'm not hiding??? I've been here posting all day.

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:23 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:51 pm I'd really like to hear Mesk514's thoughts on current events. My thoughts are clouded by past meta and I think an outsiders' viewpoint could bring some clarity

But what about the other 16 players?

current events

LC and Epi were the most relevant clouds, you and Sloonei were satellites to that event.

Mesk has formal mafia experience and no preconceived notions about how Epi or LC (or any of us for that matter) play normally and that makes her viewpoint unique and especially valuable because of it.

the mention thing goes away if you

delete the @ symbol before the names

Quin wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:33 pm That tells me Kyle's attention was stolen by the squeaky wheels. I don't think that's a bad thing, because scum needs to know what's going on outside of those yelling the loudest as well.

the squeaky wheels were the only wheels at the time

they kind of still are and I think it's a problem

Oh. Epi left. :/

Did Nutella ever respond to the question about Epi/LC?

it's cus I mentioned Mesk early in the post and the quotations change it back into @mesk instead of making into the coding thing with brackets and shit, it happens for all the quotes in the cascade unless you delete the @ symbol

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:00 pmI think she's more likely bad if Epi is bad and Epi is more likely to be bad if just one of them is.

Can you expand on this link?