The Syndicate

hello all

First, a small disclaimer: I'm relatively new to FM, and I only have about 6 games across all sites I've been on.

4 of them so far have been on my home-site, sc2mafia.com

So I hope you all can bear with me if I do something foolish or don't completely understand something initially.

If you have any questions regarding me, feel free to ask! IF not, I hope I can contribute to this game in some meaningful way

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:07 pm a thought i had about this setup while brainstorming is that the "the person who has the least votes gets sent to the grasslands" rule basically functions as a doc save - we can ensure that our strongest townread gets sent to the endgame if we take advantage of the mechanics to save them every night (and we can also use them as a means to submit the execution kill that we want - this was discussed as an idea in the pre-game but it's worth bringing up again)

While I did read about that pre-game strategy post, and this, I can't help but feel a bit skeptical of things related to this plan.

Let me say this first though: I do agree with the idea so far in terms of a "best bet".

However, the only failing of that plan is that it relies on not having scum manipulate the execution to be onto a townie, or be the one who's selected to carry out the execution.

Additionally, there may be a divide as to who is the "towniest" or should be least-voted.

Although, I think I feel safer with this plan rather than the imaginable alternatives right now.

I think trying to think of the votes as anything else at the moment may make things a bit too unpredictable for town to (collectively) handle, hence why I agree with it the most at the moment. Though I suppose that may be a thought to consider later if we've repeatedly failed to catch a single scum since at that point the game would be proof that the plan hasn't worked. In which case, trying to shake things up may put things out of scum's control.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:11 pm Do you know banana and Naz? Love those guys

I do! Though I haven't gotten to play with them directly. Its always been cases of where I've been the host or they've been the host lol.

Which, by the way, I would rather not talk about the game I hosted (in my statement above). I've gotten over it, but its still a slight sore spot that a game that I prepared so much for had a host error in it by then second night phase.

nutella wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:23 pm everyone else think for me

should i just vote everyone except nanook so he gets the gun like he said

I'm not sure if I qualify as a good candidate for thinking for anyone here, especially since I don't know anyone.

But if the day were to end instantaneously in the next second then I would. As much as there are many considerations to make in FM, I have to remember my inexperience.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:34 pm I townlean Martin already since he seems to be somewhat comfortable and helpful.

Could you elaborate to me a bit on why my comfort level at the start of a game might be alignment indicative, from your perspective?

Wait, does the poll remove your vote if you just want to see results? (there was a blue link thingy for seeing results...)

Well rest in peace dear day 1 MartinGG99 vote.

I also think I can town-lean Thunal33 so far.

His explanation didn't match what I think a scum would be possibly inclined to say.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:56 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:54 pm I also think I can town-lean Thunal33 so far.

His explanation didn't match what I think a scum would be possibly inclined to say.
can you expand on this a little bit more? how would you expect scum to react to your question, and how did her answer differ?

I think a scum would point to my aforementioned level of experience in FM games with regards to my comfort level in response. As in, that would be the easy argument to make; a new player who's scum may be more uncomfortable than most players.

Instead, Thunal33 starts talking about themselves in comparison, and that's why they think my comfort level can be AI at the moment.

As to whether that's something they can do as part of one's "scumrange", I don't know and time will tell.

For the moment though, I think that process of thought or reasoning was more likely to be from town than scum.

Thunal33 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:00 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:54 pm I also think I can town-lean Thunal33 so far.

His explanation didn't match what I think a scum would be possibly inclined to say.
What do you think a scum would be inclined to say?

See my last post. In order to conserve posts, I won't be doing this ("see my last post") much.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:12 pm @MartinGG99 plz
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:19 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:07 pm hello all

First, a small disclaimer: I'm relatively new to FM, and I only have about 6 games across all sites I've been on.

4 of them so far have been on my home-site, sc2mafia.com

So I hope you all can bear with me if I do something foolish or don't completely understand something initially.

If you have any questions regarding me, feel free to ask! IF not, I hope I can contribute to this game in some meaningful way
Welcome welcome! How have your forum games gone so far? What strategies have worked for you or appealed to you? How do you plan on approaching this game?

Oh, sorry! I missed this.

My strategy is kinda at a fluid moment, at least my town one. I'm not sure about it. Im on phone at the moment, so my typing is a fair bit slower.

Basically, when I orignally started out, I did a bunch of studying of games but what I first came across was the Champs. What really appealed to me at the time was JJJ's spreadsheets on game 6. While I didnt read the whole game or the entire championships (I probably have, but dont remember due having to remember college sttuffs as of late). On my first few games I took a really strict approach to try to collect reads and what not, but then i quickly found a fair few bits of it faults. Ive also learned (thanks to an MU user named Quick) the importance of always hiding some thoughts or information even as town.

Right now, I guess im going with the flow of my mind at the moment. My last game was on an anonymous ?krc game on my homesite (as S-FM Jolly Rancher), and I was super happy that when i took a tone or gut scum read I was actually right on that read for once as town lol. So im still debating more "methodical" play and just "gut" play, if that makes sense.

My scum game is lukely going to be similar to how it was in Spirits II though. I think I did fairly well there all things considered (except fall on my face at finding the thrid party Virus). Here's the link:

https://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthre ... dder-Game)

Though, of course, my play as scum needs a few improvements.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:35 pm Groovy, thanks.
What sort of things do you look for when you're reading people?

1. Anything I haven't said before that i would find as AI. For example, I probably wont repeat or reuse the information I just publically said for Town leaning Thunal33. Scum, if they wanted to, could abuse information I give out if its too much in order to manipulate me. Quick taught me this, when i was scum for the first time.

2. I used to look for associations a lot but I'm trying to move away on that a bit given my scum game where I failed to find the Virus before it was too late for a wolf win. Though this isn't to say I don't use it as a reaons at all.

I generally dont answer broad questions like this, so i try to be very context specific with the information or arguments that i give out. However, if I make a case I will very rarely hide information or reasons from my perspective .

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:51 pm i like this response from martin, and it's because my approach to scumhunting is very similar to the reasoning he's using to townread thunal (ie: coming in with an assumption of how the scum is likely to act and then measuring that w/the actions of the players)

i actually had a different feeling from thunal's opening read on you, though. i've noticed that scum usually feels pressured to out reads early on to give the impression of gamesolving, and thunal outing a tr on you almost immediately raised my eyebrows a little bit. still, i can believe that you believe it

I tend to think the timing aspect of early reads aren't AI, though I'm sure there are people who would disagree. I will admit though, I didnt think of the "scum out reads earlier than usual" aspect.

I value game discussion/progression, and an early read promotes that very well in most cases. Or at least I think it does.

Alright, I'm here. Going to be digesting the 400 or so posts that have been made while I was gone (I've been rather busy past 20-ish hours dealing with my college classes) but I should have about 4 hours to spend here now. As well as be here for a few hours prior to EoD.

Feel free to @ and AMA, though it may take a few minutes to see the notification since I don't keep an eagle eye on the bell icon.

Responses to page 3.

Spoiler: show

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:45 pm Martin has already pocketed me.

This is rather a surprising statement. Why is it that someone who has about ~6 games of experience be the first one to give you a strong towny indication?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:19 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:03 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:45 pm Martin has already pocketed me.

tutuu is physically incapable of randing scum as usual.

Sloonei is scum for making stuff up.
why do u tr tutuu?
There's the usual energy coming from her that she displays when she's town. She could be mimicking it as scum but I think it's not easy to forge and will fall apart eventually if she's faking it. I felt kinda good about #51, #53, #76, #93. Individually taken they're just mildly townie, but all four of them combined + pretty decent energy means that I'm happy to give her an early game townread.

I think this is good evaluation of them, and wouldn't mind tr'ing them as well. I can't really say or decide much about them because I'm not experienced with high-energy players, and so when I see a player like tutuu I sort of just null them for the moment until the game progresses.

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:22 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:32 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:26 pm nutella's response reminds me of the type of thing i will say when people misunderstand my (often deliberately) confusing words early in games.

nutella-or-sloonei says X.
Player asks nutella-or-sloonei about Y.
nutella-or-sloonei stresses Not Y, Only X.

I like it. It's a thing I do when I'm town. I see nutella do it and think town.

at tutuu
I would also note that the "misunderstanding" is irrelevant: a hypothetical mafioso might be less sure of their position right there. Even if tutuu is misunderstanding their initial point, they might see the question and think they need to come up with an answer for it. Instead nutella just stuck to the initial point and didn't budge.
i actually did a double take at these posts. i’m like.... so confused by this read. like do you think scum!nut is like so bad that she would see tutuu assume a read she hadn’t actually given and go “gee wiz, ig i have to tr sloonei now since tutuu assumed i did.” like, is scum!nut incapable of correcting wrong assumptions? why is this towny? i really don’t get it

At this point the conversation and topic has begun to become rather confusing to me. If this is some "weird" way of marking Sloonei as scum then I think it just might be natural awkwardness from a complex topic (of which may be NAI). I don't know about anybody else, but I have made awkward arguments or conversations in the past as either alignment.

Hally wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:53 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:51 pm
Hally wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:48 pm ok full disclosure: i was afraid of this going into the game. like when i saw i randed town i was like “but spf and sloonei are gonna be so paranoid of me now if they’re town and i might not be able to work with them as well.” like particularly with you, im scared that even if we agree on stuff you’ll be so nervous that im just pocketing you that you won’t wanna just accept that im town, which is gonna suck for both of us. idk if that will actually happen but yea, i am cognizant of this

ok fine you can be town

(for now)
yea, im like 99% sure nut is a villager. she’s checked like every box already lol

Is that, in part, because you already know them?

I'm not entirely sold on them being town, but that may be due to my inexperience of not knowing everything that can constitute as "towny".

Responses to page 4.

Spoiler: show

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:08 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:00 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:52 pm I am town and stand by my read on nutella.
how do u feel about the early pushes on you? do you think all of them are coming from a sincere place?
Idk, i’m distracted at the moment so I haven’t read them in detail. nutella tinfoiling me is on brand.

I'm not sure how I feel about this interaction. Feels like a nudge not intended to generate an AI response.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:38 pm I was also a champs finalist but don’t worry making finale means very little in terms of how skilled you are

And yet, in the podcast, they were directly talking about how the JOAT^2 setup was meant, at least in part, to help people determine the skill of players. You could argue part of it to be luck, since games are often a team effort of some degree, but to dismiss the skill aspect to a large degree I would beg to differ.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:03 am If we're going to do the "Tammy/Sam" strategy I outlined in the signups thread, it may be best to have two kinds of phantom votes, one phantom vote for who we're going to give the gun to, and one vote for who we think is scummy and want to send into the Grasslands so they can be killed by the gun-wielder. I will represent these by Scum Vote: X and Town Vote: Y.

Currently, my votes are:
Scum Vote: Sloonei

and

Town Vote: Nanook

I'm not sure nanook is actually the towniest player in the game, but he has decent equity of townsiding with his gun usage (since it would be pretty suicidal to demand the gun on post 1 when you're intending to use it to go rogue by shooting a townie) regardless of his alignment, and I also think he is the kind of player that would know when is the best time to go rogue with the gun.

I will Town Vote: Tutuu

I disagree with the assessment that scum would be using the "towniest" position to go rogue with the gun or execution. Remember, scum can only night-kill whoever's not in the grasslands. If they can land a scum in that spot, then that effectively gives them free reign to kill whoever they want as well as making sure that scum wont die. Hence, I refuse to town vote Nanook just because they demanded the gun. I've seen (and even have played as) scum with risky plays. Though, admittedly, I don't know Nanook as a player.

As for a phantom scum vote, I am reserving it for later, possibly when I am done catching up here. When I last left, there was only about 110 posts in the game and I think a vote there, phantom or not, would be a bit too hasty.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:24 am Actually the gun person gets the doc save too right? I kind of want to nominate tutuu then, she has the highest combination of town equity + "being targeted N1 by mafia" equity. That's probably more important than nanook having good judgement about when to go rogue.

Town Vote: tutuu

Oh, you changed your vote. That's good. Though the reasoning is different.

Also, why would you think they would be targeted night 1? Aside from being possibly highly town read?

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:54 am thought dump

martin has some pretty nuanced thoughts so far both about the setup and then later re: his read on thun. his tone is also good imo. i would be pretty impressed if he was able to deliver such nuanced thoughts in such a genuine sounding way as mafia given his limited experience. wanna see if he can keep it up but yea, pretty towny so far

thun is also pretty towny. she’s a good wolf though and can replicate her town meta pretty well. she also has a tone that’s generally kinda hard to read. but her thoughts as town have greater nuance and depth than her scum game, and i’m seeing that here so far. don’t feel like shes forcing stuff. again, not gonna lock this in because it’s still early but so far i feel good about her

nook’s “just let me decide who to kill and ill take care of business” seems like town!nook lol. not actually sure he wouldn’t be brazen enough to push for it as scum but idk, not worried about it rn

and with sloonei, the best way i can put it is like how alison did. when i read his posts about why nut was town, my immediate reaction was “he’s just making this up, this isn’t a real read.” i dont disagree with the conclusion obviously because im like 99% sure nut is a villager rn. but i am extremely concerned that sloonei had that read before i think he “should” have. it makes me think he has tmi that nut is town and that was coloring his perception of her posts so he thought she had towntold before she actually did. but like, idk if sloonei would make a mistake like that as scum? and sloonei in particular is someone i really really really want to find if he’s town because he’s a huge asset if so. but nut, tutuu, alison, spf and i all noticing that he seems off does give me more confidence in the read than i usually might have. idk my mind is definitely not made up though and i want to see what he does going forward and how he responds to the pressure

vote: spf
vote: sloonei

Can anybody help me determine if its AI when someone seems to explain their phantom kill vote, without much explanation on their phantom town vote?

Or is that NAI or am I just fussing over nothing here?

Responses to page 5.

Spoiler: show

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:49 am i think jay is wolfing, and it would not shock me at all if he was w/w with sloonei. this obviously needs more exploration, but my feeling right now is jay is not town

I think if JJJ is wolf, I don't see strong evidence for being w/w with sloonei (or much of anyone else for that matter) at the moment.

As to whether he's actually a wolf or town, I don't know that yet.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:00 am God damn it this is gonna be the dumbest read ive made in a while but i want to townread hally cuz they out spf in top town and didnt elaborate at all until asked. So like this is based off of the assumption that hally if they were mafia, would be more aware that they should probably be consistent and explain their reads and stuff, and they would be cautious about explaining all their reads except the top town one (spf), so it looked to me like a town not caring about apperance in this small instance

That's what I was thinking as well (see my last post full of spoilers, towards the bottom). However, I was wondering if the level of justification or focus on the scum vote was sort of...negatively AI? I don't know. I'll just TR hally for now since I do trust the town read on you at the moment.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:20 am Sorry martin and thunal i havent been paying much attention to u cuz we re stranges and im cautious to give reads on ppl i have no experience with. I will try eventually but i will be very low confident about it

I hope you understand the same goes for me, right? Though I will do my best to determine my reads on people.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:26 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:38 am I actually am not a huge fan of how the response from both JJJ and Sloonei to the theory of a JJJ/Sloonei wolf game has been "I'm tired of people always theorizing about JJJ/Sloonei wolf teams". If you think about it, that is actually an AtE defense (albeit a more polite and subtle kind), since it doesn't actually do anything to rebut the theory that they're wolfing together.
This looks fake too.

"That is actually an AtE defense", whether true or not (I don't get it), says nothing about whether it is genuine. I don't think either of us made an effort to "rebut", because the accusation means so little at this point. I'm not mafia. I don't know about Sloonei, but we cannot be teamed. We can be sarcastic about the notion, because it is an age-old meme. I used to make fun of Epignosis back in the day for making the token "JJJ and Sloonei are teammates" accusation at least once per game thread.

This post has little hunting value unless you believe us to be actual mafia teammates. Is that what we are?

I personally think the problem is not that its AtE but rather I would believe if I were constantly tinfoiled with being possibly scum-teamed with X player in many games, I would be annoyed as well regardless of alignment (I am presuming you are annoyed of course).

The thing is, if I am understanding the conversation/posts correctly so far, that has been your primary defense as to why you aren't teamed with Sloonei; that it has been tinfoiled plenty of times.

Given the plausible NAI nature of making a statement out of annoyance regardless of alignment, I am hesitant to assign the topic and your responses to it any sort of AI value.

Responses to page 6.

Spoiler: show

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:43 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:41 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:35 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:33 amThe part I'm concerned about is that you're using that as a replacement for actually defending yourself or trying to show your towniness.
Yeah I don't think this works often enough to be a good way to spend my posts. People make their reads and then struggle with their internal confirmation biases regardless of defense. I will "clear" myself as well as I can by trying to solve the game, and I just have to hope people see it.
Yeah but what I'm getting at is that if people are like "hey I think you're scummy because of XYZ" and the response is "that's what everyone always says", then I'm not going to be very impressed by that response since it's just a dodge answer.
what do u feel like you're getting out of this exchange with jagged right now? is it helping you read him?

I'm going to give town points for this. Not that it was exactly what I was thinking, but I believe this was fairly close to my thoughts (or at least what would be my thoughts if I was present right then and there).

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:54 am i was just iso'ing martin/thurnal, and i was expecting to come out of it with a scum-lean on thurnal and a townread on martin. weirdly enough, i'm kinda feeling like i'm in the exact opposite position. martin left a strong impression on me with his early townread on thurnal, but his logic doesn't read as: "this is a perspective that is DEFINITELY coming from a town mindset" in the same way that it did when it was happening in the moment. i also wasn't particulary moved by any of his other posts

on the contrary, i actually quite like how much of an open book thurnal is. the way that she unflinchingly accept hally's meta on nutella on #156 and the way that she explicitly brings attention to alison's meta to townread them on #130 does not strike me as somebody who is trying to play the game with an agenda

i'm not completely sure i'll feel the same way when i wake up tomorrow, but i'm especially interested in hearing more from martin right now

I apologize if I didn't come off as "this is a perspective that is DEFINITELY coming from a town mindset", but that sort of caution is necessary with regards to my experience level.

Consider thinking about it this way: I didn't announce a TR or any sort of read on anyone else at the time. This would imply that my publicly stated read was (and is) the most confident at that point in time.

I don't often like defending and presenting a different view of my own posts to players who suspect me (or mention me without talking to me), but I think in this case its necessary because when just ISO'ing its sometimes easy to forget the context or important details. Otherwise I feel like my opening is going to get misinterpreted here (for better or worse).

I hope you understand where I'm coming from on that issue.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:20 am us: carotte, are you mafia?

carotte:

Okay, this wins the most adorable post of the game contest.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:40 am
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:09 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:02 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:49 pm If the game reaches a Final Three, they will all be sent to The Grasslands. All dead town players will vote for which one of these players shall carry out the final execution kill.
Nice twist!
lolol
Going back to this, initial scum lean on LC. Not a big fan of using the host as an icebreaker to get into the thread, it also kind of feels off since the same text was present in the sign up thread for over a week now. The comment itself is also pretty bland, he isn't really adding anything to the mech convo.

As for the "lolol", that was basically my reaction to it 'cause I often scum read LC and it's a "why are you always so scummy LC" lol. He's more often than not scum, so no my fault

Huh. I never paid attention to host quoting and when they happen.

But now you point that out I can agree with you on that.

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:42 am Kind of think nova town for the way they went about reading LC.

I can't disagree that it does look towny. I do feel slightly less about it though that they didn't post about it until after they said they read the thread at #280.

While I do think its towny of them for how they went about it, a very small part of me wonders if it was intentional after having read the thread to post about Long Con to shift some of the thread's "direction" or "focus" later on.

Although I think at this state of the game it is too dangerous to suggest or do any sort of pre-flip association tin-foiling right now, so I'm just going to town lean them.

Only had one response/question for page 7.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:58 am Nanook seems fine. novaselinenever is a civilian.

Are your reasons for this similar to the ones found itt or are they different?

If you don't wish to elaborate on those reasons then you can just say if they're the same/similar or dissimilar/different.

Responses to page 8.

Spoiler: show

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:42 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:22 pm
staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:07 pm a thought i had about this setup while brainstorming is that the "the person who has the least votes gets sent to the grasslands" rule basically functions as a doc save - we can ensure that our strongest townread gets sent to the endgame if we take advantage of the mechanics to save them every night (and we can also use them as a means to submit the execution kill that we want - this was discussed as an idea in the pre-game but it's worth bringing up again)
While I did read about that pre-game strategy post, and this, I can't help but feel a bit skeptical of things related to this plan.

Let me say this first though: I do agree with the idea so far in terms of a "best bet".

However, the only failing of that plan is that it relies on not having scum manipulate the execution to be onto a townie, or be the one who's selected to carry out the execution.

Additionally, there may be a divide as to who is the "towniest" or should be least-voted.

Although, I think I feel safer with this plan rather than the imaginable alternatives right now.

I think trying to think of the votes as anything else at the moment may make things a bit too unpredictable for town to (collectively) handle, hence why I agree with it the most at the moment. Though I suppose that may be a thought to consider later if we've repeatedly failed to catch a single scum since at that point the game would be proof that the plan hasn't worked. In which case, trying to shake things up may put things out of scum's control.
I have a hate and love relationship with this post.

If hate and love are equivalent to say like, town points and scum points, do you have anything else to say about that post? Or is there something you would like to point out about it?

Otherwise, if my interpretation is correct, its basically saying "This looks towny and it looks scummy", which is nothing.

(This was answered by a later post)

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:56 pm Well I didn't mean to post that. Larger post incoming. Preview so as to not completely burn two posts: I am tired of being suspected from the outset of every game here. It is draining and Not Fun. But people are, like, allowed to read me. They need to read me if the game is going to proceed. But it's not fun for me.

If it helps, I don't have any negative tinfoils about you for the moment. I find most of the public reasons to scum-read you a bit flimsy and not particularly strong to warrant a D1 (or is it technically night 1?) execution kill on, especially since it was just 1 thing that, for all I know, may have been a misunderstanding.

Hally wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:04 pm martin is maybe the tr im least confident in when i step back and look? as in, i may have been lowering the bar too much because he’s new-ish. i’ll see what he does going forward

I actually would appreciate this. If I'm given special "newbie" status all the time then that isn't really going to help me learn how to play when I'm no longer considered a newbie. To emphasize though, I'm saying this regardless of my alignment here.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:20 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:49 pm
novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:42 pm I have a hate and love relationship with this post.
tell me more
I have read it several times, and every time come out with a different take. Initially felt pure in tone, like an enthusiastic townie wanting to add to the mechanical conversation and give his thought. At other times, I'm not actually sure what he is adding to the conversation, there are a lot of words but he isn't really saying much and there is no stance either way. Even when commenting on the plan or the issues, there is nothing specific about it and it's just filled with "it's probably the best way, but bla bla bla, although I'm all for it, however bla bla bla" lol. It goes without saying that a the most townie pick is unlikely to be unanimous as would be the eliminated player in a normal game, also same with mafia manipulating the execution or the pick. It'd be the same exact thing in a normal game, it's the name of the game lol.

But then deeper into the rabbit hole, that "not adding much to the conversation" actually resonates as town if that makes sense lol. Feels like a town post in that sense, like a townie just pouring his raw thought into the thread with no real agenda behind them.

Okay, thanks for stating that. Answers one of my responses above in this spoilered post of responses.

Responses to page 9.

Spoiler: show

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:26 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:22 pm Oh yea i just thought of this

@JaggedJimmyJay jimbo jax jeraldo, u said how alison had the false bravado thing, what about nook?
I didn't get the same impression from Nanook, particularly given that his "bravado" (e.g. the just give me the gun stuff) didn't take the shape of a read on anyone. It was just general conceit in his usual form. What I like more about Nanook is that I think his reads look authentic -- especially his hard town read on novaselinenever, which preceded the general consensus we're seeing on nova now.

I think I can sheep this. Still though, I don't think they should be the one to receive the doc save and gun. I would prefer it to be tutuu as I've said before in my past few spoiled posts.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:46 pm Thunal is a she. And I think you're overblowing the weirdness of that, I just assumed she hadn't realized about the name and didn't particularly remember anything from Carotte hence not having a townread on her lol. It's not the type of inconsistency I'm concerned with. Do you think there's something scum indicative about it?

I will admit, I've been guilty of doing the word "he" improperly once or twice this game. I just didn't post and apologize about it in order to conserve postage that may or may not be necessary later on for me.

Though I've been working on using "they" a lot over the past year or so, as a default pronoun to use.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:50 pm General takes on Martin would be appreciated.

I think a few general reads have been given out/sprinkled over the course of several pages. I was only there for about the first 100 posts or so then I had IRL to deal with until I came back to find ~500 posts made in the game so far.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:00 pm Am I the only one town reading Sloonei lol?

Aside from you it kinda feels like I am the only one not-scum-reading them.

It feels like his moves, statements, or arguments have been too awkward to be mafia/scum at the moment.

Also the fact that he had to disappear for a bit and posted about not being having the time to focus on the accusations laid against him until recently makes me think there may be external factors at play here that's distorting his town play....as town.

I don't have a good town read on him, but I do think its strong enough to warrant not being the D1/N1 execution target from my point of view.

Responses for page 10.

Spoiler: show

Carotenoid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:34 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:03 am Martin is just a very transparent player I think. There's something about the way he talks about managing information and how he feels his tell on Thunal can only be used once that rings of truth to me; I can sense the paranoia about being fooled by scum there. Honestly even this is like some attempt at verbalizing or rationalizing a gut read that was probably made for murkier reasons though.

I think I find players easier to read if their playstyle is similar to mine (duh). For instance I found proto's approach to the game very easy to read and vibe with, and I have a good track record of reading proto because of that. I suspect Martin is a similar case, and I townread him.
^ I kinda want to townread this post, because I also had the vague idea that Martin was somewhat similar to Proto and that it's the archetype of player that w!Alison would want to pocket. Alison initial way of approaching Martin didn't seem like she was actively trying to pocket him and I don't think she would be disclosing that much "info" if she was a wolf.

Is there anything preventing you from town reading that post? You said you "kinda want" as if there's something holding you back.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:36 pm
Carotenoid wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:34 pm Why is it specifically one between {Carotte, Sloonei} and one between {Martin, Thunal} and not like {Carotte, Thunal} for example?
cuz i dont think carotte and sloonei are w/w due to the way carotte gave a read on sloonei and i dont think martin and thunal are w/w due to the way they hard townread each other at start of the game without playing each other in the past; it just didnt look faked on both ends

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:36 pm Carotte questioned the pairings, in lieu of giving an opinion.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:38 pm vote: carotte

sorry sweetiepie i rly love u but i think we might have different alignments

The timing of this makes me think this is very pure. Both of the first responses were made in the same minute by Tutuu and Long Con. If Carotte is mafia or scum here there I would honestly argue that this clears them both. Or at the very least puts Long Con towards the end of a PoE.

Alright. So I'm all caught up. And that took a fair bit longer than I thought.....

Oh well. Anyways,

[mention]Sloonei[/mention] When you get the time:

You discussed a bit about the Thunal-on-Carotenoid interaction, but I was wondering if you had any thoughts about Carotenoid?

Please note the point of this question isn't related to other player's pushes on to you.

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:32 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:26 pm Where can I see Phantom vote totals?
town votes:
tutuu - 2 - alison, tutuu
spf - 2 - hally, nutella

scum votes:
carotte - 3 - hally, JJJ, tutuu
sloonei - 2 - alison, nutella
long con - 1 - sloonei

Also I believe I put in one of my spoiled posts recently:

Town Vote: Tutuu

I don't have a phantom scum vote yet, but I do believe I will have one soon. If not tonight then by tomorrow, a few hours before EoD.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:56 am @MartinGG99 I would be grateful if you could share your perspective of Alison please and thank you.

Personally, I haven't been particularly swayed by them by a whole lot since its day 1. However, I don't think anything they've done has been particularly scummy, and I think their rush to say that I pocketed them is indicative of being towny. I mean, if you were to try and pocket someone as scum, why would you rely on a player who has 6 games played so far to defend you? I'm not going to say no scum will ever do it but I do believe as it stands, I just think in this game's context, town's more likely to do that.

As for their prodding so far about your reaction to the Jay + Sloonei tinfoiling, I disagree with its prominence and relevance to your alignment. It could be honest differences in opinion, but I've felt the irrelevance or impertinence of it was preety obvious (in my opinion of course), especially since its day 1. I would almost say that's towny as well...but I almost can feel like if they're scum here then they're just trying to do things in order to get some town cred of some sort by doing things that don't immediately appear as scummy. Sort of a defensive scum play style where you don't particularly care who the town eliminates so long as its a townie.

If there was one post that bothered me most, it probably would be this one:

Spoiler: show

Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:33 am
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:26 am
Alison wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:38 am I actually am not a huge fan of how the response from both JJJ and Sloonei to the theory of a JJJ/Sloonei wolf game has been "I'm tired of people always theorizing about JJJ/Sloonei wolf teams". If you think about it, that is actually an AtE defense (albeit a more polite and subtle kind), since it doesn't actually do anything to rebut the theory that they're wolfing together.
This looks fake too.

"That is actually an AtE defense", whether true or not (I don't get it), says nothing about whether it is genuine. I don't think either of us made an effort to "rebut", because the accusation means so little at this point. I'm not mafia. I don't know about Sloonei, but we cannot be teamed. We can be sarcastic about the notion, because it is an age-old meme. I used to make fun of Epignosis back in the day for making the token "JJJ and Sloonei are teammates" accusation at least once per game thread.

This post has little hunting value unless you believe us to be actual mafia teammates. Is that what we are?
I don't think it's AI for you to be tired of JJJ/Sloonei tinfoils. The part I'm concerned about is that you're using that as a replacement for actually defending yourself or trying to show your towniness. Like this applies to Sloonei especially because he used a very similar defense ("nutella always scumreads me") instead of trying to engage with nutella to show her that he's town, or rebutting the case that nutella had on him. That bothered me quite a lot when he dismissed the case nutella had as "nutella tinfoiling me is on brand".

I generally think that this behavior increases both of your individual scum equity slightly, but it doesn't do much to make me suspect the specific team of JJJ/Sloonei.

Here they say that they don't think its AI to be tired or annoyed of scum-team tinfoils. Then says using a non-AI thing to defend yourself is somehow AI? I would personally stop at "you're using that", and just go no further if "that" is a thing that I say is likely NAI.

And at the end of it, she self-admits that such an observation only increased "scum equity" slightly....so that kinda begs the question as to why she brought it up in the first place: "I actually am not a huge fan of how the response...".

At the end of the day though, they didn't spend much posts about it (and technically just only 1 post until she got questions about it) and so I think it might not be scum-indicative, unless they're just poking at things they don't like as part of a defensive scum play style.

But for me that's just tinfoiling that they're scum. I think they're town, and I did sheep them a bit on #119 (and the following interactions resulting from that looks good to me).

If you think I have misinterpreted some things about Alison, or failed to consider some possibilities, feel free to say so.

Also, I am here till EoD. However soon after that I have to start working on other stuff, so don't expect me to be very active (if much at all) during the 24 hour quick-topic chat phase.

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:26 pm martin: i mentioned last night that martin left a strong impression on me when he opened the game w/a relatively confident townread on thunal. unfortunately, martin's ISO drops off a lot after that. the majority of his posts so far have been responses to the parts of the game that he has missed, and they are fine. he's making a lot of observations and a lot of thoughts that appear good on a surface level, but i don't see much followthrough with the observations he's making. i have no idea who martin actually scumreads the most after reading all of his catch-up posts, and that concerns me a little bit. i still do like martin's tone but i'm not convinced his logic/gamesolving is equally as compelling. gth scum

I have no qalms with this read, for the record.

I find it actually a bit helpful since I have been re-evaluating how I should or want to play town as of late, even prior to this game. Ironically that's a scummy statement (by me), because scum are the ones who should be trying to see how to appear town to others lol. But I do hope there will be nuances that appear in this game where I am playing as town, not acting as such.

I probably should be a bit more forth-coming with my thoughts or notes.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:44 am Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl

Hmm. Are we (the town) sure about Carotenoid though?

I think its a bit LHF to get rid of Carotenoid, which can imply being town.

In my 2nd town game (3rd game I played), 2-3 players who I thought were easy eliminations happened to actually be town when they were either night-killed or eliminated, and so I'm a little wary to just off Carotenoid right now unless we're imagining that Carotenoid is a day 1 bus.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:53 am that ^ was for page 11

i also have to say that i found it kind of hard to digest martin’s catch up posts so i’m making a note to try to real time more with him. to kick that off @MartinGG99 where’s your head at rn? who do you think could be scum? who is town? any general thoughts and feelings about the game or anyone in it?

Where my head is at? I guess I'll try to talk about it.

Basically these are the people who I am considering to vote:

Long Con
Carotenoid
novaselinenever (I can elaborate on this one, though I don't think they would be on today's or maybe even D2's table for an elimination)
Nutella
Nanook

Actually, this kinda looks like a randomly-ordered PoE of sorts that JJJ mentioned. I don't know who would go into the 6th slot.

Here are the towns that I feel a bit strongly about:

Thunal33
Tutuu (Granted, I did sheep a bit on this one based on other's arguments)
SPF

Hally, JJJ, Sloonei and Alison are somewhere in between the PoE list above and towns that I feel strongly about.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:15 am @Martin: A clarification about the post you were confused about. I think it's NAI to feel certain emotions. But I think it's AI to use those emotions as a shield in place of a real defense. I am well known for being harsher than average on AtE defenses, and I think they very frequently come from scum as well. It's fine to feel things, it's even fine to express those things, but when your only response is the expression of emotion and not, like, real reasons why the accusation is wrong, then that is where I get suspicious.

I understood that. I think that is an honest opinion held by you, however I personally don't think it holds as much weight as you probably do. I think the bigger thing to look at is what they do outside of that topic. If they focus on it forever and use that defense, then hell yeah its AI and I would think its scummy.

However, I think JJJ has repeatedly tried to move the discussion away from that, and I find that to be a slightly more town indication.

This isn't a dismissal of your points -- I think they're valid. I just disagree with the valuation of those points and how you've reacted to/with them. You even said that it only makes them seem slightly more scummy.

I also think further discussion over something that has been said to be miniscule in consequences (either finding it for scumminess or towniness in the end) is probably going to be more pointless, but if it must be discussed by the town in general then I suppose we will.

Alison wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:31 am
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:28 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:44 am Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl
Hmm. Are we (the town) sure about Carotenoid though?

I think its a bit LHF to get rid of Carotenoid, which can imply being town.

In my 2nd town game (3rd game I played), 2-3 players who I thought were easy eliminations happened to actually be town when they were either night-killed or eliminated, and so I'm a little wary to just off Carotenoid right now unless we're imagining that Carotenoid is a day 1 bus.
Why does easy elimination = "town or bus"? Why can't they be caught mafia?

(This site has a pretty high rate of eliminating scum D1, also.)

Noted, didn't know that this site had a preety high rate of eliminating scum on day 1.

Its just my personal experience that tells me to be careful of LHF

On my Romeo & Juliet game on MU, SPECIFICALLY on day 1, the top two wagons were town and the 3rd wagon had a scum. I can't recall any specific post I made about the wagons being too easy, and that no-one was rushing to jump on the wagon that (in the end) had a scum, but it really felt like until day 3 or day 4 it was difficult to find and catch/eliminate scum. Admittedly, maybe my inexperience had a hand in not catching scum until later.

Link*
*Shows the closest that the wagons got, close to EoD1. The top two were town, third (insomnia) was scum.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:38 am
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:28 am
tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:44 am Man u kno wat im tired af of this vote tally thingy, imma just [VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine and im not voting myself, if u guys pick someone else over me then they get sent anyway cuz im like top poster so all good. And i might be online to self vote myself later on if needed, if it even bcomes necessary iight kewl
Hmm. Are we (the town) sure about Carotenoid though?

I think its a bit LHF to get rid of Carotenoid, which can imply being town.

In my 2nd town game (3rd game I played), 2-3 players who I thought were easy eliminations happened to actually be town when they were either night-killed or eliminated, and so I'm a little wary to just off Carotenoid right now unless we're imagining that Carotenoid is a day 1 bus.
lhf can easily be mafia too. i don’t think this is a reason in and of itself to not eliminate carotte

is there anyone you feel better about eliminating?

I don't think there would be anybody on the table for elimination that I would prefer for a day 1 elimination, when considering other player's inputs (such as Long Con usually playing like he does now).

Day 2 is probably going to be awkward for me unless Carotenoid flips red here.

For day 1 specifically though:

I am a bit suspect of Nutella. I don't like that she just called "Hally is mafia" and such. Its like they just make reads, be fairly active, and not do a whole lot of pushing or input. I don't know if this is their primary playstyle though, but I do fail to see any particular town benefit unless that benefit tends to appear past day 1?

As for Nanook, similar reasons apply though their willingness to accept the ability to eliminate did seem towny. I just fear (maybe unreasonably fear) that may have been an attempt to have (what's effectively) the doc save used on them...because if that's used on a wolf then they have free reign to kill whoever they want. If a scum realized that pre-game, it wouldn't surprise me if they made a dive for it.

Carotenoid I may just end up voting anyways to secure the vote. I'm not super opposed to it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:42 am One hesitation I encounter about going after Alison or taking her to task -- I think she is an easy player to nitpick. Her posts are thick and thoughtful regardless of alignment, and that means each of them presents more opportunities than most to be interpreted in an unsavory manner. I suffer the same fate. With that in mind, I'd appreciate any feedback I can get from non-Alison sources about specific grievances I raise relating to Alison's posts. If you feel it's nitpicking, please say so. It never feels like nitpicking to the nitpicker.

Fwiw, I do believe your initial concern about bravado was very much valid. Alison's explanation that I seemed to have a similar process or playstyle similar to hers is probably something you could not think of without being them or putting on champs-level of effort.

I don't think anything from you has been particularly nitpicky...or maybe its more accurate to say "nothing has been too nitpicky"

I guess the difference lies in how much we positively or negatively value those points or conclusions, even if nitpicked.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:48 am
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:47 am novaselinenever (I can elaborate on this one, though I don't think they would be on today's or maybe even D2's table for an elimination)
I'd love to hear about this.

Sure thing.

Personally, I didn't like #280 - #283, and #287.

First off, their initial post (#269) was about 30 minutes prior to them saying they:

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:30 am I've read the thread.

r/IAmA

Now I don't know if they actually read the whole thread in 30-ish minutes. I mean I guess you could but you probably couldn't think much about the content or posts that one see, fmpov. I might be wrong and somehow they're a fast thinker and reader.

I also looked up what r/IAmA was, and I don't think this means this post was a joke but implying the thread has been really mundane?

Soon after, post this about Long Con:

Spoiler: show

Out of all of the things they could comment on, why did they choose this? And with the consideration of their other posts made roughly in the next hour, it feels like there's so much focus into scum hunting except an implied town-read on a person who's already town-read by quite a few people. I will admit though I agreed with their conclusion there though about LC.

It just....bothers me somehow and I can't really explain it other than my reasons listed here. I can learn to understand it though if as town they tend to hunt for scum more than they do for town however.

I think most of their interactions after that point in time though have been fine for the most part. But I just don't want to write him up as a person that I don't want to ever consider for a future elimination.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:50 am thanks. i’d like to hear you talk more about the people in yellow as well as those in your poe

I can do that. I will do that after I've caught up first though, since it will take some time. As I'm responding, the thread still has activity.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:23 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:19 pm I am a bit suspect of Nutella. I don't like that she just called "Hally is mafia" and such. Its like they just make reads, be fairly active, and not do a whole lot of pushing or input. I don't know if this is their primary playstyle though, but I do fail to see any particular town benefit unless that benefit tends to appear past day 1?

As for Nanook, similar reasons apply though their willingness to accept the ability to eliminate did seem towny. I just fear (maybe unreasonably fear) that may have been an attempt to have (what's effectively) the doc save used on them...because if that's used on a wolf then they have free reign to kill whoever they want. If a scum realized that pre-game, it wouldn't surprise me if they made a dive for it.
I would say that low-explanation snap reads are commonplace for both nutella and Nanook. nutella explains things sometimes, but she rarely starts with an explanation. Anyway I don't think it's something town-indicative, as it could be the one of the easiest-to-fake methods there is. It's not indicative of anything really beyond a stylistic preference. Rather than assess the degree of explanation (or lack thereof), I suggest you try to interpret the validity and sincerity of the reads.

I'm not sure if I am capable of detecting sincerity reliably and accurately (I can probably give too much too easily or too little too harshly).

Especially since I'm in the position of having not played with anyone here, except having spectated the championships a bit. But that isn't the same as playing with people.

However, I can town-read snap reads, and if you believe they are town then I suppose I should trust them more for it.

Also [mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention] you're at 99 posts so far.

You won't be able to post more until an hour after now.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:00 pm Also @JaggedJimmyJay you're at 99 posts so far.

You won't be able to post more until an hour after now.

If you post one more time that is.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:50 am thanks. i’d like to hear you talk more about the people in yellow as well as those in your poe

Alright. So here's what you asked for with more details.

PoE:

Long Con: This is going without saying tbh. I am reserving them from d1 considerations on the trust of others who say that Long Con normally plays like this. However, I did quite agree with Nova's point earlier about him entering the thread with a host quote.

Carotenoid: I actually haven't looked at them in very much depth (due to time constraints), but I have observed other's arguments about them. I also haven't seen anything particularly beaming as town from them, however I did quite like that they were observing progression on me from JJJ, even if the end result of such an observation wasn't anything of worth (imo). Also feels like LHF....I discussed this a bit in my recent past posts and so far it seems like my fears are just fears from inexperience rather than anything valid.

novaselinenever: See this post.

Nutella & Nanook: Reasons for being in possible PoE are fairly similar, though have a few nuances for each. See this post and this post. This may change soon, as this may just be playstyle differences.

In-Between-PoE-And-Strongly-Felt-As-Town:

Hally: I haven't looked into Hally a whole lot, same as Carotenoid. However, I have greatly appreciated the way you do catching up. You're probably on the players I've least looked at yet.

JJJ: I didn't try reading him very much in the early game because of the immediate JJJ/Sloonei tinfoil, however I did observe him trying to move away from the topic several times and I think if a scum were there they probably would've tried to stay in that position for longer. I probably need to re-evaluate them more in-depth for content afterwards once I've evaluated others (such as Hally), but for now they have had my trust.

Sloonei: I don't think any of their actions have been particularly scummy, and it feels as though at two separate times this game they had awkward or confusing moments and that, in a way, they were too awkward or confusing to a wolf to willingly walk into. I mean, just the stretch that Sloonei had to make and justify just for a town-read of nutella seems like it was sincere. Although, I am eager for their thoughts on the game. I will give some exception though to the fact that he recently played in the champs.

Alison: See this post.

Alright, so, with all of that catchup and answering done:

Town Vote: Spf or Tutuu (Preferably Tutuu but if SPF is consensus I'll go with that)

[VOTE: Carotenoid] aubergine

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:47 pm oh and me

[VOTE: hally ] aubergine

Oh yeah. Forgot to do that.

[VOTE: MartinGG99] aubergine

Wait, I wasn't supposed to vote myself after hally voted us all?

I'm lost....oh well.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:10 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:51 pm Why are we giving the gun to spf?
why shouldn’t we?

Honestly, I've been wanting to give the town vote to Tutuu because not only
1. They're towny (as far as I can tell at the moment), but also
2. I feel like they're partially unpredictable more than other players, and that can be a lucrative kill for scum at times

I can recognize though, that if SPF is town, they can represent a strong threat as well as some other players. We have to choose someone though. And I would like that to be Tutuu, but I have no qualms if it has to be SPF instead. As for others, unless we're talking Thunal33 (which I don't see a whole lot consensus on using a doc save on), they don't have enough of my trust to receive the heal or gun or whatever it is called.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:06 pm DOES ANYONE OBJECT TO SPF RECEIVING THE FEWEST VOTES?

I make the letters big because clearly folks were displeased about voting hoopla last hour, so let's just get it sorted a'ight. Maybe y'all did already and I haven't seen it yet

I have no objections to SPF or Tutuu receiving the lowest vote count.

If I were a deciding factor between the two, I would say Tutuu.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:02 pm @novaselinenever was found with a knife in his back.

He was a seeker (town).

Well this is an interesting night kill result, at least for me.

Glad to know my possible tinfoil read was wrong, but I had hoped if I was wrong I would've realized that if they lived longer to make posts that I would see as towny.

That isn't to say I was overall scum-reading him, but I was definitely considering the possibility of it for D2 or D3 re-evaluation since their entrance rubbed me the wrong way.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:56 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:54 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:02 pm @novaselinenever was found with a knife in his back.

He was a seeker (town).
Well this is an interesting night kill result, at least for me.

Glad to know my possible tinfoil read was wrong, but I had hoped if I was wrong I would've realized that if they lived longer to make posts that I would see as towny.

That isn't to say I was overall scum-reading him, but I was definitely considering the possibility of it for D2 or D3 re-evaluation since their entrance rubbed me the wrong way.
This post is triggering me in a very level one way.

Why did you feel it necessary to explain this, Martin?

Maybe because I am human and some things I like to comment on?

I really wasn't expecting it so I wanted to express that.

MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 5:05 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:56 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:54 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:02 pm @novaselinenever was found with a knife in his back.

He was a seeker (town).
Well this is an interesting night kill result, at least for me.

Glad to know my possible tinfoil read was wrong, but I had hoped if I was wrong I would've realized that if they lived longer to make posts that I would see as towny.

That isn't to say I was overall scum-reading him, but I was definitely considering the possibility of it for D2 or D3 re-evaluation since their entrance rubbed me the wrong way.
This post is triggering me in a very level one way.

Why did you feel it necessary to explain this, Martin?
Maybe because I am human and some things I like to comment on?

I really wasn't expecting it so I wanted to express that.

Not everything a person says or does is deemed necessary, y'know.

There are humans behind the keyboards.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:45 pm From a classical POE perspective, we'd presently need a pool of five. Congruently we'd need five non-self civilians. Can we get there? I have comfortable town reads on:

SPF
tutuu

Well, shit. That's as far as I get right now. If I allow myself to give more generous town credit and trust vaguer instincts, then I would go with Hally and nutella.

I would like your thoughts on Tutuu, if possible.

Also [mention]tutuu[/mention]

What are your thoughts on Alison in detail?

staypositivefriend wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:07 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:02 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:45 pm From a classical POE perspective, we'd presently need a pool of five. Congruently we'd need five non-self civilians. Can we get there? I have comfortable town reads on:

SPF
tutuu

Well, shit. That's as far as I get right now. If I allow myself to give more generous town credit and trust vaguer instincts, then I would go with Hally and nutella.
I would like your thoughts on Tutuu, if possible.
what's your plan to solve the game today? who do u feel the most comfortable w/being town right now?

I'm having *some* second thoughts about Tutuu and Jagged, and would like their answers to my 2 questions above.

Provided that I don't feel like something is off only then will I look more into the whole Hally + Thunal + Alison messes.

Right now something doesn't feel right to me, and while I do realize that's a similar feeling I had for Nova, one of the things I've said earlier on this game is I've been debating between more "methodical" and more "gut" play.

I want to lean on my gut a bit here again.

tutuu wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:10 pm
MartinGG99 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:02 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:45 pm From a classical POE perspective, we'd presently need a pool of five. Congruently we'd need five non-self civilians. Can we get there? I have comfortable town reads on:

SPF
tutuu

Well, shit. That's as far as I get right now. If I allow myself to give more generous town credit and trust vaguer instincts, then I would go with Hally and nutella.
I would like your thoughts on Tutuu, if possible.
I am pretty sure you have had me as your top townread whole game - why are u asking him about me?

And about alison - i wrote it out in the quick topic, and 2-3 posts about her today if u wanna control + f alison. Sorry im on phone i cant copy paste everything, and i definitely dont feel like rewritinf everything

All I've seen is a 'She could be mafia' or 'I could see her being mafia' , but also a lot of past or earlier posts had you town-reading her for "agreeable-ness" (if I recall in one of your readslist)

What happened that makes you put her in the 2nd spot of your indepedent scummy read list? The one with "Thunal > Alison > Hally".

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