The Syndicate

hi, i'm gay

Hi dad, I'm one of the five JoaTs!

Somewhat more on topic, We Know The Devil, and it's 72/24 hammerless flipless.

So. I signed up as a sub expecting/hoping to go in a little later than day 1, so I could just go into the tank solo, read through the game, and tell y'all who the mafia are. That didn't happen. I'm going to be tightly managing mental health this game and not threadsitting, because 72/24. Or trying not to anyhow. Some of you who have met me in spec chats and games already have an idea of what to expect from me. For others, we are meeting for the first time, hello!

I am an out of place object in the Syndicate/MU forum mafia world, a Samurai Jack-esque castaway out of time who learned the game over a decade ago, took a long break from it and only recently returned to the field. I don't put wolves in boxes. I plinko board my thoughts. I think the phrase "process of elimination" is anathema to town success. I think a low number of large contentful posts is better than a flood of one liners. I find playing town much more stressful than playing scum and am geared to catch wily wolves rather than potato wolves. My process is very different, in many ways the exact opposite, of what seems to have become the norm in this strange new world. Some of you will probably not understand me, and that's fine. Some of you may be tempted to scumread me solely on playstyle, that's a little less fine. Keep an open mind, and we can work together and benefit from our different perspectives.

Fortunately, I'm the innocent child, so we won't really have to worry about that too much.

Also and most importantly, I love you all and am thrilled to be playing with you fine folks. My sense of humor is largely inclined towards dry absurdity; please keep in mind that everything I say is a joke, unless it isn't, but also it is. <3

Now I'm gonna read the game. Here's some pokemon fanart!

Well that came out bigger than I hoped it would, sorry scrolling people. (Artist is Mistyx, won it in spec chat bets!)

I posted previously reading nothing, now I have read page 1. I accept TSP on the Council of Innocence. ... maybe we need a different name for it this game, idk.

When actually is deadline btw? That's not like THIS EVENING is it?

Scirrus wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:01 pm awww you're all so cute <3

my favs on the top of my head are uhhhh umbreon, dewgong, yanma, medicham, mienshao, pancham, dragonite, gallade, frosslass, drifloon in no particular order!

@sabie love the art and the couple!

@Hally you missed the pokemon game on MafC! I requested an eevee emoji for it and now we have some

Umbreon, Dewgong, Yanma, Dragonite, Frosslass, this slot is blessed.

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:53 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:46 pm

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:36 pm

Hyena wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:30 pm [VOTE: Hally] aubergine

I feel like Hally is trying to drag this pokemon discussion further than is actually necessary. :P Also, OMGUS.

i will shamelessly talk about pokemon for the entire time im alive in this game and you can’t stop me

So much for shamelessly talking about pokemon the entire time, huh? :3 Are you feeling a little self-conscious after I suggested that you could be prolonging the pokemon discussion to delay talking about reads?

yes, it’s because i’m mafia

oh

Hally wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:58 pm am i the only one who really dislikes the pokemon based on inaminate objects? like the keys one or the sword one (idr their names rip)

nvm hally not mafia

Mistyx wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:20 pm if we're talking pokemon i found a cool image that i will

somehow force to be relevant to the game



tag yourself, and give a bit of explanation into how that carries over into mafia!

i'll start, i'm grass, i'm consistently hard on myself over how i play but i don't get frustrated with others easily

I fit too many of these idk you tell me. Normal/Water/Poison/Ground/Ice/Ghost/Fairy/Steel.

Poison if you want one where they all fit. IDK though poison is pretty generic for mafia players. Yes I am uhh, good with words, sneaky and strong willed and a little chaotic, but definitely good, said everyone in a mafia game ever.

Actually I'll just list all the points I nodded to.

-easily made nervous
-perfectionist
-when do they sleep?
-cries a lot
-needs lots of reassurance
-strong-willed
-chaotic good
-daydreaming right now
-sneaky
-quotes old memes
-binge watches or doesn't watch
-fluent in sarcasm
-cold weather best weather!
-catch them in an oversized sweater
-into some weird music
-big fan of kitty-cat toe beans
-a lil withdrawn
-comfy style
-shy shy shy
-nobody ever rly knows what they're doing
-mia from time to time
-still wears footie pajamas or would
-intimidating but actually a big dork
-rambler!!
-either a strong sense of self or no sense of self
-overshares online
-very serious about their interests
-a new interest every week
-seems to be great at everything

It is relevant because understanding each other will help us understand each other. Probably.

Hyena wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:36 pm

cayvie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:34 pm like i dont think either of them actually expects the wagon for the other to get off the ground, or their reason for voting to be taken particularly seriously.

So, like, this thought and, in general, all the ones about me and Hally being scum together are, I think, genuine, even if I don't know if it's alignment indicative or not. :3 For a brief moment after I started accusing Hally the way I did, I was a little worried that it might be taken as two scum bussing since there are people I'd do that with if I were scum with them (Evenstar from last years MU Champs, for example).

This post is either very good or very bad.

Hally wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:18 pm (is mp pocketing me. asking for a friend)

no

Annnnd I'm caught up, okay!

[VOTE: Cayvie] aubergine

Thinkin my vote goes here right now. By and large I agree with my fellow IC TSP. Cayvie had an awkward entry, awkward interjection in the Hally/Hyena thing, and instant why me fry me when TSP scumreads her, while pointing only to Hyena (looking like LHF town to me) as a suspect. Pretty level 1 stuff but it is what I have right now.

MP7 is definitely an outlier. Hard to say whether that's due to personality (Fire type, wow!) and lack of time or being mafia. I share Hally's suspicion of the pocket attempt but don't think it worked. Also a very weird response, seeming to not understand TSP is calling her + cayvie as vote candidates? Also she called Hyena "self-resolving" which makes me go hmmmmmmmmm.

Sabie doesn't have much down still. Would appreciate some discussion with her. Sabie, who do you think is mafia and why? What do you think about the use of subtitles in the original Star Wars trilogy, and their absence for R2-D2 and Chewbacca?

Minor Mist tinfoil but mostly feeling good there. Think Hally is town, their state of mind is palpable.

Hyena... is hard to follow for me but in a way that makes me think they are town. The thoughts seem genuine, as the kids say, and unagenda'd. "I was worried I would look w/w with Hally because if Evenstar was in this game and we were w/w Evenstar would bus me" is a heck of a take to manufacture.

IC claims, imo, work a lot like the council of joats for those who understand that reference, it's not really a problem to have multiples on day 1 or even later. I felt it was correct to policy claim it on a sub-in as town, and did... in retrospect too bombastic of an entry, worried this was going to be a high volume high pressure game like my previous MU encounters. This is much chiller and I'm super happy about that.

I don't know if TSP is the real one or not. I do like his posting, and in particular dropping "cayvie+mp7" as suspects right when he did is enough of a mindmeld (in the proper use, in the past and with zero prompting from my slot) for me to put him in effective never-yeet regardless.

Definitely agree, MP7 is very nice

but may be mafia

Also posting Content. Because I want to.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:44 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:28 pm Annnnd I'm caught up, okay!

[VOTE: Cayvie] aubergine

Thinkin my vote goes here right now. By and large I agree with my fellow IC TSP. Cayvie had an awkward entry, awkward interjection in the Hally/Hyena thing, and instant why me fry me when TSP scumreads her, while pointing only to Hyena (looking like LHF town to me) as a suspect. Pretty level 1 stuff but it is what I have right now.

MP7 is definitely an outlier. Hard to say whether that's due to personality (Fire type, wow!) and lack of time or being mafia. I share Hally's suspicion of the pocket attempt but don't think it worked. Also a very weird response, seeming to not understand TSP is calling her + cayvie as vote candidates? Also she called Hyena "self-resolving" which makes me go hmmmmmmmmm.

Sabie doesn't have much down still. Would appreciate some discussion with her. Sabie, who do you think is mafia and why? What do you think about the use of subtitles in the original Star Wars trilogy, and their absence for R2-D2 and Chewbacca?

Minor Mist tinfoil but mostly feeling good there. Think Hally is town, their state of mind is palpable.

Hyena... is hard to follow for me but in a way that makes me think they are town. The thoughts seem genuine, as the kids say, and unagenda'd. "I was worried I would look w/w with Hally because if Evenstar was in this game and we were w/w Evenstar would bus me" is a heck of a take to manufacture.

How does Hyena look like LHF?

What do you mean by me being an outlier? What do you mean by don't think it worked? Where did I not understand TSP saying that? Based on my experience with Hyena, he was pretty obvious town part-way through the game so...?

Why are you mostly feeling good about Mist?

So, MP7

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:57 pm thinkin mp and cayvie

This is, at least in my eyes,TSP calling you and cayvie mafia and suggesting that we vote the two of you out.

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:06 am

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:57 pm thinkin mp and cayvie

That would actually be a lot of fun.

And your response is "sounds like fun!"...?

Not seeing how Hyena might qualify as LHF, when they are/were vote leader, many players have been discussing them, and their own words say they're often put in the proverbial box, is strange to me. These combined strangenesses are examples of why I am viewing you as an outlier with a very different perspective of the game.

If you're unfamiliar with the "box" theory entirely, it's here: https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... Newcomb%29
A lot of people I've seen around the vicinity (of syndicate/MU/champs spec chat) have pointed to this article as a major influence on or description of their playstyle. I'm not so much a fan, personally.

Your pocket attempt on Hally, if it was one, did not work as Hally remained suspicious of you.

Mist's typechart exercise was a good discussion starter, she has done only one major "scummy" thing I find potentially worrisome, and other people I've sorted as town so far are also townreading her - not solidified but I'm satisfied to not vote there at the moment.

Would you say this style of asking many questions is indicative of your own general playstyle?

i like how we’re all so this game. i want all games to be like this

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:20 pm I'm sorry everyone, I just feel a bit frustrated.

Noting a thing. Currently sitting on that thing.

Hally, what are your thoughts on Mist? Did you ever answer the pokemon type chart thing? (if so I missed or failed to note it)

I liked that Mist insisted on answers to "how does this relate to your play in mafia." So far she hasn't done much with that, so it's a bit of a loan read. I look forward to her conclusions.

I... don't like that MP7 is conducting a lot of questioning dialogue, but did NOT ask me "Ran, what was that one thing Mist did that you found scummy?" That's a bit of bait I hung out in a way that I thought was very obvious to start a dialogue on. I'm concerned this questioning is not genuine.

[VOTE: M Plus 7] aubergine

MP7, I'm going to put my vote on you for now. If you are town, please don't freak out, continue on.

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:16 pm Mist's typechart exercise was a good discussion starter, she has done only one major "scummy" thing I find potentially worrisome, and other people I've sorted as town so far are also townreading her - not solidified but I'm satisfied to not vote there at the moment.

I considered letting it hang until someone asked, but the moment passed.

The scummy thing is in post #80.

Aye. That.

Post contains words "Tim Hortons"!!!

(And then you say: "What? Just for that? Ran, your methods are weird!"
But it was supposed to be MP7 saying that so we would get some opinions expressed on methods)

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:32 am

Hally wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:37 am

Mistyx wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:00 pm anyway i have important mechanical information to share

n0 tim hortons w
n1 smartbomb gay

this?

Are we supposed to understand what this means? I feel like I don't understand half of what is going on in this game. Maybe I'm just an old lady and I don't get what all the kids are talking about these days haha

In game 6 of the Champs tournament on Mafia Universe, earlier this summer, there was a player who wrote in their pregame bio "If I mention Tim Hortons in my first post I am lock scum." Their first post of the game was nothing but the words "Tim Hortons." They were scum. Town voted them out day 1 and swept the game. Thanks to this incident, it has become a bit of a meme that the first person in a game to mention Tim Hortons is scum.

Couldn't sleep too well, as you can see from occasional morningposts. I spent a fair bit of thought on that conversation with MP7 overnight. Really not sure. In the moment I didn't feel like I was talking to town, but... mm. it could be.

On the other hand, uhhh we're yeeting in 5 hours, not much morning action, votes are totally split, two players still have stale votes on my predecessor... Cayvie appears to have straight up dipped after being accused, for more than a day and a half, so sure I'll go back there.

[VOTE: Cayvie] aubergine

[mention]Alison[/mention] if that's needed for votes today.

Hi MP7!

Off the top of your head, what are the chances Mist is mafia here?

And what do you make of Hally wanting to talk about Pokemon, but not wanting to respond to the typechart exercise?

So Mist is the bottom of your current reads? Are you comfortable voting her?

What pushes cayvie into top tier for you?

MP7, are you town?

Interesting that you should point that out.

Can you talk to me some about how you form reads, and what you believe to be alignment indicative vs unimportant?

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:33 pm

Ranmilia wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:25 pm Interesting that you should point that out.

Can you talk to me some about how you form reads, and what you believe to be alignment indicative vs unimportant?

Point what out specifically?

Sure. I'm not sure what to say though. I played in Champs Season 5 (qualifier, wildcards, finals, the last of which never happened) and tried to play a bit after that but always ended up slanking (especially by my standards) until post-COVID when I came back, and I'm trying to improve my game. I feel like I generally rely on my gut but I've augmented that with analytical methods plenty off and on, which... will be harder to engage with this game since it's flipless. I guess I just try to understand whether I think someone is genuinely making reads and statements versus fabricating content. A good part of that is why I end up asking questions especially to players whose brains I don't yet know or understand. I feel like I'm good at finding town and not very good at figuring out when someone is scum so that's why I ended up gravitating towards an approach that plays to my strengths, but I don't try to force it either, and I'll be known to really find something I think is worth pursuing aggressively if someone answers a question or says something that really doesn't compute with my understanding of how their brain works in such a way that I think they're making it up. Does this help? I hope so.

That does help, thanks.

Well, the one thing I didn't want to happen happened, I took my meds, got groggy, had to lie down for a nap and did not wake up the 1 hour later planned. Massive apologies.

... felt good about my vote though and at a glance it appears to have been a hit? Good times. Reading up now.

Rannya~
TSP (IC, good tone, has matched my view of the game)

Hally (tinfoil, Hally has a good scum game and if there is a busser it's here. I don't currently see getting there though. Doesn't feel like it matches what's happened this game.)

MP7 (exact opposite view of Cayvie's posting, shading Mist, shading Sabie (for hedging on Cayvie, but she's also defending Cayvie?), very different mindset. But also feels genuine? But also... 32000 posts. I haven't seen any MP7 games but I assume she's very much not a potato.)
Sabie (on Hally eod, also shading Mist, defended Cayvie on the basis of "scum wouldn't dip")
Mist (... dipped?)

if this game turns into misyeeting Mist day 2 I swear to baphomet

If IC is within mp7/sabie/mist they should claim ASAP to avoid the risk of getting vigged.
If vig wants to shoot tonight, I'd prefer they call their shot. But if they do call a shot they have to take it, no fake shots from anyone please.

Unfortunately I think there's a fairly significant chance Hyena was a PR.

The problem is if BOTH PRs are down there, there's a chance the vig silently shoots the IC, and I don't particularly trust Hyena's VT claim.
... maybe I'm too pessimistic about this. Ehn.

Here's what I had in voting logs:

D1
Hally votes Hyena
Scirrus votes Hally
Mist votes Scirrus
Hyena votes Hally
Hally votes Cayvie (serious)
Cayvie votes Hyena
Hally votes Hyena
MP7 votes Scirrus
Hally votes Cayvie at some point?
TSP votes MP7 at some point?
Ran votes Cayvie
Ran votes MP7
Sabie votes Hally
TSP votes Cayvie
Ran votes Cayvie
MP7 unvotes

missing some from eod I believe, and from earlier, it's difficult to be sure since some votes happened in poll but not in thread.

Good night MP7, good night Hally if applicable.

##Nightvote: Mist

A wise mafia player once told me "Lettuce yeet the slot that does not care what's happening at EOD"

That mafia player... was Mist herself

That's basically why. Also I'm somewhat swayed by MP7 and Sabie's appeals, and Mist's Good Reads (TM) haven't really been in evidence. I felt like Cayvie was kind of textbook scummy, at least, and of the three people who disagreed with that and townread her, Mist seems least believable.

Three people townread Cayvie.

Of these three...

MP7 is believable to me as having very different perspective. The type chart exercise was useful here. The rest of us were all picking mostly the same things, Poison, Ice, Steel on the chart, typical mafia player traits, and MP7 comes in and self describes as Fire which is *way* different from anyone else. And that appears to be genuine.

Also if I am living in an MP7 town world, she gave me a potentially valuable insight when she pointed out that simply starting the typechart exercise is not heavily alignment indicative. I never did see Mist come back and do anything with that information, so the lease/line of credit townread I'd given Mist for it has to be withdrawn.

Sabie is a head scratcher, but...

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:47 pm I mean cayvie has a whole interaction about bussing and being a vengeful mafia and then ended up being the vengeful mafia so I pointed that out. I thought maybe that was something worth discussing if we're analyzing cayvies ISO. If no one thinks looking at other players interactions with a mafia member is worthwhile then fine I give up go ahead and misyeet me. If someone else had come up with that idea it would be awesome smart amazing cool. If I say it, it's heavily questionable and makes no sense and why would I ever even think that was meaningful?

This is believable to me and matches Sabie's place in the game. This also matches a world where Mist, specifically, is looking for somewhere to shade.

Mist... called Cayvie #2 town. Mist is a player I have relatively high experience with, and her thoughts usually are more traceable to me than this. When Mist is heavily wrong it's usually from feeling things are too easy, not overtly townreading scum.

Mistyx wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:28 pm

cayvie wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:23 pm oh im deffo steel in that list

spicy take

this is wolfy for not answering the why

...there's nothing behind this take i just want to feel productive

called cayvie's response wolfy, but immediately disclaims it as a nothing take

Mistyx wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:26 pm hi, i think

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

@Alison

naked unvote before the move onto sabie (MP7 also did a naked unvote in fairness, I think d1 unvotes are weakly scum indicative)

Or in other words -

I don't think it's TSP, I don't think it's Hally, both of them were consistently on Cayvie's tail. If the other scum bussed throughout the day and somehow still got THREE townies to townread Cayvie, then GG because I don't know how that happens. I understand I myself would be considered a slightly more likely busser due to subbing in and napping through EOD (looks like I'm getting a sinus infection, bleh), but hope that people can find their way to me, question away and all that.

But from my perspective it's within these three suspects, MP7, Sabie, Mist, the people who townread Cayvie. Numbers, with a clearer head. We get to kill two of them? So if there's one verifiable PR within the three... that seems very good? Or if there's not, people who are good at finding town can approach it by finding one town in there. People who are town and good at finding town and included in the three can find the other town. Hooray. That's good. Words.

For my part I am more inclined towards finding scum and I think the scummiest is Mist. Words. 2 AM. I may be wrong on that. [mention]Mistyx[/mention] if I am wrong on this keep calm and carry on, you believe it's Sabie over MP7?

Mreh. If I'm squinting at Mist for not taking the "This feels too easy" path should I be townreading Sabie for being the one who did post it first? Mreeh.

Three town genuinely townreading Cayvie. That... no it just doesn't make any sense? If all three of those are town then they have five total votes with Cayvie+partner. Makes no sense Cayvie ghosts the thread and goes over. Plus the improbability of townreading Cayvie's play in the first place.

Mistyx wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:00 pm anyway i have important mechanical information to share

n0 tim hortons w
n1 smartbomb gay

Tim Hortons. Tim. Hortons.
Tim.
Hortons.

And "smartbomb gay" not "i'm gay." That is exactly the conspicuous failure to post "i'm gay" that I talked about considering a situational scumtell, in spec chat back around champs semifinal 1.

cayvie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:41 pm cayvie

tony
misty

sabie
hally
scirry
hyenie

(mp)

Does cayvie really bust out this readlist formatting if her partner is MP7? Hm. Hrm. Hmm. [Slay the Spire shopkeeper hmms 10 hour loop]

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Hello friends!

...well I am around for questioning and things. Not a lot I can say in response to "Maybe it's Ran powerwolfing" though!

Because the meme is that saying Tim Hortons makes oneself lock scum! Why would town knowingly do a thing that makes themselves look scummy, even as a joke?

So you admit it!!!

It adds to my accumulation of data points towards what is believable from you and what I can expect from you. Currently you seem to be in a "zomg everyone is town" state where you're townreading everyone and seeming a little lost, looking into reasons why it might be Hally, or me. This is somewhat consistent with what you described as your methodology, but also a very easy position to take as scum, so... hm.

This is the waiting part of the game where I have hypotheses about how people will act, but saying them will disrupt the observation.

MP7, where's your head at on who the mafia is?

As expected. Vig should claim now. It's not me.

I, too, am curious about Hally's take on MP7 specifically.

But also

[VOTE: Mist] aubergine

I guess it's gone long enough that I should say something to [mention]sabie12[/mention].

You are not posting into a void, I see your posts and your stances are duly noted. Currently I have characterized you as "townread Cayvie." You are correct in pointing out that you did not strictly speaking do that. You did, however, post:

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:31 am I am always a low poster in the beginning of games I am slow to start as I get a feel for things sorry that's just me. Also as I've said this week didnt go as planned for me but oh well.

I feel like this game is better for the scum team because they can kill us all easily and we won't even know for sure they're doing it.
Now that I can read ISOs I could maybe vote hally as they seem to have been perpetuating the random pokemon discussion and just seem different than the town game I saw before. Now that I read cayvie I feel her thought about hyena and hally may have been genuine but then she disappeared after Wednesday. I think tony is his usual town self. I could see maybe a vote for mist I don't feel like they're towny though I guess others do. I think MP seems like her town game before. I'm just not sure.

For now I will [VOTE: hally] aubergine I'm sure I'll get grilled about that but that's what I feel right now. In the other town game Hally was so unsure and thought everyone was town and didn't want to vote people and this game seems different to me.

Bolded and underlined the key phrase. This, as I understand it, is the exact reason that MP7 and Mist gave for why they townread Cayvie. So, posting that specific stance + not voting cayvie is why I currently have you lumped in that group. You may not have said "I townread Cayvie" but if you prefer we can adjust the language to "people who believed cayvie's thoughts were genuine and did not vote her." Does that make sense?

M Plus 7 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:42 am Ran, what do you make of sabie getting defensive over that interpretation?

I think I'd prefer Sabie to post about that herself before answering. I'm curious as to what you think of the matter, as someone who did, as far as I know, townread cayvie.