The Syndicate

Oh geez, I forgot how dang active folks are on Day 0s around here. Sorry in advance if I have a low post count to start out with. It's been exactly 45 years since I last played a game of 'Mafia' on the webzone mafiathesyndicate dot com.

All I have read-wise is an impulsive fear of the old RYM crew because memories of old games still wake me up at night in a cold sweat, and a default wariness of everyone else because I have lost all meta on you, if I ever had it to begin with.

Someone tell Grandpa Strawhenge what multiball is, or is supposed to be.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:39 pm Strawhenge, you're a grandpa now??? Congratulations!! I had no idea

I sure feel like one. But I am a stepdad now, which, I mean, come on, who saw that one coming.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:46 pm
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:23 pm Someone tell Grandpa Strawhenge what multiball is, or is supposed to be.
Two mafia teams.

What’s your first impression of the new blood, Mr Hange?

I have no idea. I'm so rusty.

(I also haven't completely caught up on the thread.)

So far the only thing I'm interested in is how avidly Alison is defending herself. A lot of that conversation is based on meta that I'm 0% familiar with, but my foggy recollections of old games often led me toward thinking that those who Doth Protest Too Much on Day 0 had something to hide.

That, and I'm always wary of Day 0 Page 1 reads that are based on very little.

Strawhenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:46 pmthose who Doth Protest Too Much on Day 0 had something to hide.

That, and I'm always wary of Day 0 Page 1 reads that are based on very little.
Wanna clarify: something to hide, whether they're town/scum/third-party.

Well I farted up that quote pyramid. What I meant to say is that: those who Doth Protest Too Much on Day 0 had something to hide—be they town/scum/third-party.

Well I farted up that quote pyramid. What I meant to say is that: those who Doth Protest Too Much on Day 0 had something to hide—be they town/scum/third-party.

God, it's like I've never posted on a forum before. Bungled quote pyramid and a doublepost? Yeesh and a half. Anyway...

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:54 pmDay 0 Page 1 reads are great.

I mean, yeah, something has to get the conversation started, but they never felt very useful to me. To each their own, though; not at all criticizing Day 0 reads as a concept.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:56 pm I think Sloonei's immediate skepticism of me claiming I have a provable PR is townie from him in the context of just coming out of Fallout 2, a game where I pocketed him by dayvigging a scummy player D1 and claiming the shot immediately.

Yeah, see, this is what I mean: there's so much meta flying around these boards and I have zero context for any of it.

(Also I'm sad as hell that I didn't come around in time to play a Fallout 2 game.)

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:06 amWhat do you mean get the conversation started? I tunnel my page 1 reads until I die.

But anyway, Alison, I'm going over TSP's post history, and I'm not seeing anything suggesting TMI. I see what's probably a gut town-read on you, and then game speculation. What makes you think he knows more than he's letting on?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:18 am tutuu outed a pretty strong scumread on JPIC. What do you all think of that?

I think it's a bus.

I'm not generally a fan of reads based on post volume, but doing so doesn't make my scumdar beep. Does tutuu bus a lot in other games?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:33 am
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:24 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:18 am tutuu outed a pretty strong scumread on JPIC. What do you all think of that?

I think it's a bus.
I'm not generally a fan of reads based on post volume, but doing so doesn't make my scumdar beep. Does tutuu bus a lot in other games?
tutuu is scum for other reasons. I'm discussing whether her read on JPIC is authentic or not.

1. It does seem like a reach at surface level, so it might lose some authenticity points.

2. What are the other reasons tutuu is scum?

Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:36 am Too many typos.

I'm not convinced. Even without personal experience with tutuu's typos, I'm loath to pin that on someone. I think the possible bus is a stronger theory than that.

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:45 am jpic strawhenge alison team 1 nanook esooa kza team 2 and i just stole that second team from falcon

Why, for all of those?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:46 am
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:43 am
Alison wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:36 am Too many typos.
I'm not convinced. Even without personal experience with tutuu's typos, I'm loath to pin that on someone. I think the possible bus is a stronger theory than that.
How different is the current game atmosphere to what you remember? Are there any things that seem cozy and familiar to you?

Cozy? No, I'm paranoid already. Familiar, yeah, I'm starting to remember how Day 0s feel, and this is fitting the bill. Wild accusations that blow up into huge discussions.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:56 am
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:36 am
1. It does seem like a reach at surface level, so it might lose some authenticity points.

2. What are the other reasons tutuu is scum?
what is reaching here?

Just your read that JPIC is scum because he hasn't posted a lot. That's only based on how few times I've seen low post volume correlate to scumhood, though.

I don't have any outright scumreads at the moment. A couple eyebrow-perking things that I've already mentioned (mostly the reactions to Alison's PR claim), but that's about it.

The only thing I'm directly interested in with her claim is: in a game designed to make nothing 'provable' until someone's card flips upon death, I'm interested in seeing how her PR is 'provable'.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:39 am
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:36 am I don't have any outright scumreads at the moment. A couple eyebrow-perking things that I've already mentioned (mostly the reactions to Alison's PR claim), but that's about it.

The only thing I'm directly interested in with her claim is: in a game designed to make nothing 'provable' until someone's card flips upon death, I'm interested in seeing how her PR is 'provable'.
Any town reads, Señor Strawhenge?

Just town-leans, nothing solid so far:

Alison reads like an earnest townie trying to do anti-scum work—even if I don't agree/don't have the meta to agree. (e.g. TSP spilling TMI; I still don't see it, but

)

falcon and MacDougall's Page 1 vigilance wrt JPIC's 'im town lol' post feels like very authentic scumhunter behavior.

I'm actually more nervous about the RYM crew than I am about new-to-me players, but you, RaggedRimmyRay, read like your usual supertown self—however with much more restraint / less immediate tenacity than what I remember. That could mean you're hiding something (for good or ill), but it also could mean that your meta has evolved these past six years. What gives me the town lean the most is that you're trying to get everyone to talk and generate read-material. The TownyTimmyTay that I know casts a loose but far-reaching net.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:10 pmCool beans, thanks. How do you feel about Sloonei's concerns about Alison?

I think he brought up what seems like a valid point, but at least part of it is based on Alison's meta. It definitely makes me read Sloonei as being carefully vigilant as well.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:16 pm Sloonei is town.

In turn, why so sure here?

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:16 pm Sloonei has pocketed me

This word again. What's 'pocketed', precious?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:46 pm on toan alone

What's toan?

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:51 pm
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:47 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:46 pm on toan alone
What's toan?
tone

Haha, okay, sorry, there's so much lingo flying around here that I don't know / am rusty on, so I thought that was an acronym for something.

tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:46 pm anyway, guess i should make some reads

read # 1 - jpic town on toan alone

this one's gonna get people riled up, i can tell

Okay, so how does JPIC's tone give you town vibes?

Also, not really digging your phrasing, 'guess I should make some reads,' as if you're feeling obligated to look town.

tutuu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:35 pm
tedxtr wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:33 pm elite reads : jpic saying "again" in two posts back to back when defending himself is dat villager RAGE being suppressed
it takes a rage suppressor to know another one

u guys should trust ted's read on jpic here (and my read on jpic) its 100% correct

if u guys continue to try to mischop LHF jpic we gonna throw hands

Last night you were giving a scum read on JPIC for low post volume, and now you're saying you're 100% sure he's town. Care to elaborate?

Wait, nvm, you just did a few posts up. I need to refresh the page more often.

Wait, was there no Night 0? Or did scum try and fail to kill someone? :o

Or am I getting senile and Night 0s aren't a thing?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:16 pm
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:14 pm Wait, was there no Night 0? Or did scum try and fail to kill someone? :o

Or am I getting senile and Night 0s aren't a thing?
They don't exist. You're confirmed town.

Haha, cool.

Time has ravaged my longterm memory.

Wow look at all these pages. I'ma go back through and take a bunch of notes. Gimme about 5 months.

Alright, I've caught up. That was a lot of info. I'll have a wall-of-text and a rainbow list in a moment.

Would someone mind awfully summing up what the cases are against the current vote leaders, Oddmerta and KZA? The former seemed to come out of the blue.

Also @JaggedJimmyJay, did you go into your vote on AL_sama? If you did, I might've missed it.

General notes and observations:

Spoiler: show

Reads on vote leaders:

@Oddmerta is for sure casting scumreads without much backup, if any at all. I'm not sure which JPIC post he says he didn't like, nor am I sure that this post in question is his reason for voting JPIC. That said, I learned early on in my mafia days that lack of elaboration ≠ necessarily being anti-town. I'm interested in what Oddmerta has to say, but I'm not convinced of the scumreads on him yet.

@KZA is also a case I can understand, but it's another that I don't really buy. I myself have been very self-defensive in past games as a power-roled town, because I saw myself as valuable. I still don't like KZA's take/vote on tutuu, but everything else reads as pretty earnest.

Current (mostly gut) reads (each tier is roughly in order, reasons for the scum-leans are in the notes/observations above)
Alison
JaggedJimmyJay
falcon
MacDougall
Sloonei
tutuu
SPF
Oddmerta
Michelle
fingersplints
Dom
TSP
tedxtr
Long Con
nanook
JPIC
KZA
Esooa
Marmot
BoKnows

Off Topic

Hold the fuck up. There's a 'siren' button. Did...did I inspire this? If you say yes, I will cry.

BoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:58 pm
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:48 pm(snip)
Why Eooaa, marmot and I?

I made notes in the spoiler box.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:58 pm You DID inspire the siren button, Strawhenge, those years ago.

YUP. TEARS. :,)

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:12 pm Straw also specifically mentions JPIC & Odd, both of them null/black font.

Mentions JJJ & Alison, both town reads.

Mentions BK, Essoa, Marmot, all scum reads.

Far and away, the majority of players Straw talks about are in his null section, and he only mentions 2 of 5 town reads.

I don't like that list one bit, it's safe and hedgey AF

All completely legitimate concerns. Hopefully this'll clear it up:

1. I used the @ Mention function mainly to highlight people for easy legibility in a wall of text, and to draw their attention to it in case they wanted to add anything, refute something I said, or whatever. Maybe I'm abusing that function.

2. My null/black isn't uniformly null/black. It's in rough order as well. E.g., JPIC is near the bottom of it because while I haven't seen anything to make his name redder, I haven't much liked what I've seen. (I'm gonna ISO him soon since he's been another center of conversation.)

3. My notes section was just that: notes. And I wrote them as I caught up on 16+ pages of the thread. They don't necessarily mean I'm reading someone one way or another; they're just things I thought stuck out.

BoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:04 pm Okay, so it's based on that you think Marmot is scum and me saying that I have good vibes about marmot immediately followed up with that the vibes wore off and it was due to the pfp?

My feeling about you was regardless of my feeling of Marmot. It was that you switched from having 'good vibes' to 'not good vibes' after Alison said Marmot was part of a scummy exchange. The timing seems really convenient.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:09 pm [VOTE: AL_sama] aubergine

You were on AL_sama, then off AL_sama, now you're on AL_sama again. What's next, shaking AL_sama all about?

Tell us what these votes are about.

AL_sama wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:13 pm tututu being pumped up thing was based on me mistaking her for poison

What do you think of tutuu's pumped-uppedness now that you know she isn't who you thought she was?

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:15 pm
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:12 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:09 pm [VOTE: AL_sama] aubergine
You were on AL_sama, then off AL_sama, now you're on AL_sama again. What's next, shaking AL_sama all about?

Tell us what these votes are about.
i think ur mafia and i might be going crazy with my reads but idc my heart is pure my soul is righteous

Because I phrase things like 'The Hokey Pokey'? Honestly, I don't blame you. I can barely live with myself.

AL_sama wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:19 pm
BoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:11 pm @AL_sama what do you have to say for yourself?
I don't think I need to or ca say anything when I did nothing at all

Well this is pretty evasive.

@tutuu @KZA @Sloonei

What's the case against SPF?

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:28 pm
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:24 pm
AL_sama wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:19 pm
BoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:11 pm @AL_sama what do you have to say for yourself?
I don't think I need to or ca say anything when I did nothing at all
Well this is pretty evasive.

The original question doesn't lend itself to a simple answer.

It's mostly the, 'I don't think I need to [...] say anything,' part that got me.

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:34 pmAm I really that much of a contrarian? I wouldn't have described myself as such.

Maybe you are a contrarian and you're not describing yourself as such because you are a contrarian.

math.gif

@tutuu is your scumread of me based purely on your gut, or is there something else?

tutuu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:40 pm
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:39 pm @tutuu is your scumread of me based purely on your gut, or is there something else?
i thought the tone u were using to say that theres so much to catch up on was scummy and that one post of urs where u call out jay for voting and unvoting al sama felt scummy to me it felt like idk. i imagined u as scum and it made sense

For context, this is my first game in 6 years, and I forgot how crushing it can be to see 16+ pages I need to catch up on. I might agree with your sentiment there if I had said, 'Wow, lots of posts,' then never posted anything. But I spent that time reading and taking notes.

Re: Jay's votes, I think wondering why someone votes for someone, changes their vote, and then votes for that same person again is worth a question.

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:42 pm tutuu in the last page feels scummy

Hey @Esooa, since you're here, can I ask about your immediate bandwagon vote on Oddmerta following tedxtr's vote? Felt very scummy to me. What were you up to there?

Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:46 pm
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:45 pm
Esooa wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:42 pm tutuu in the last page feels scummy
Hey @Esooa, since you're here, can I ask about your immediate bandwagon vote on Oddmerta following tedxtr's vote? Felt very scummy to me. What were you up to there?
I just wanted to vote someone to get stuff going.

Now that stuff is going, are you sticking with that vote? Why/why not?

Man, I just went through Oddmerta's ISO and I am just not seeing the case for him being a frontrunner in the poll. Maybe his voters can go into it a little more? @tedxtr went into it a little [url=https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 22#p760922] here, but I'm not convinced. I'm not even sure how to parse the sentence, 'he has trouble finding an actual tunnel for genuine reasons'.

@BoKnows and @Long Con, what's your pitch on Oddmerta?

BoKnows wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:25 pm
Strawhenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:15 pm Man, I just went through Oddmerta's ISO and I am just not seeing the case for him being a frontrunner in the poll. Maybe his voters can go into it a little more? @tedxtr went into it a little [url=https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... 22#p760922] here, but I'm not convinced. I'm not even sure how to parse the sentence, 'he has trouble finding an actual tunnel for genuine reasons'.

@BoKnows and @Long Con, what's your pitch on Oddmerta?
Didn't like my interaction with him. Didn't like how he had no reason behind his reads. During our interaction, it felt like he was riding that "I can't be touched" wave and wasn't being super responsive.

There was a regular player from a while ago, whose name I am shocked and ashamed to have forgotten, who played almost exactly like that—no matter their alignment. Maybe that's why I'm unmoved by Oddmerta. It just doesn't register as scummy behavior, especially on a D0/D1. But maybe the culture's changed.

Long Con wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 11:44 amI know I'm not supposed to put suspicion on the players who aren't in PoE, or to say that a top scumread will flip town... I just had that thought when I saw AL_sama back to two votes.

I'm catching up and making a catch-up post while keeping an eye on the current convo, but this caught my eye. What do you mean, you're 'not supposed to'?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:04 pm We’re not chopping me today

Are you trying to pull the same Jedi mind trick that swayed you so easily? (I'm addressing that in my impending catch-up post.

Catch-up notes:

Spoiler: show

RAINBOW LIST
Strong Town:
Alison
JJJ
falcon
MacDougall

Town Lean:
Sloonei
Oddmerta

Town-Lean Lean:
Michelle
tedxtr
KZA
SPF
fingersplints
nanook

True Neutral:
Dom
Hally

Scum-Lean Lean:
Esooa
Long Con
JPIC

Scum Lean:
Marmot
BoKnows

Strong Scum:
AL_sama
TSP

TL;DR: TSP and AL_sama look bad. Notes in spoiler box, but quick version is they both lack conviction in different ways that each feel scummy. One of them will likely get my vote by EOD, and right now I'm leaning AL_sama out of the two.

@TonyStarkPrime

Who are you talking about here?

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:24 pm “Why doesn’t tsp want to chop someone half a dozen people are telling him is confirmed town I wonder”

Are you talking about Michelle? Did you mean, 'Why does tsp want to chop someone half a dozen people are telling him is confirmed town'?

You also phrase this question like it's a no-brainer. I'm braining it; what does it mean?

Then this:

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:40 pm I thought Michelle was a wolf because when Michelle’s town I expect higher post counts and one or two off the wall weird interactions early. It’s not like I just threw a dart at a dartboard

I don't think you threw a dart at a dartboard at all. I think you either think, 'her meta's off' is enough of a reason to think she's scum, or you wanted to make a provocative read/vote.

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