The Syndicate

Greetings everyone

dunya wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:34 pm hello hello hello. I will be your mod/facilitator for this exciting game. If at any point you feel frustrated, upset or angry with anything related to the game, please send me a private message and I'll do what I can to make you feel better.

ok but what about if it's not related to the game

Question regarding the no claims rule - does that mean if you're the cop/tracker/whatever you can't state your results?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:40 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 pm Question regarding the no claims rule - does that mean if you're the cop/tracker/whatever you can't state your results?
Indeed. No infodumping at all. But there are still ways to use those types of roles.

It's still a handicap though

Going to be rough pulling off a town victory here unless the scum factions completely cannibalize each other

but there's also two different recruiters

so

fek

Hot take

Felicity player should use her one shot on Rip Hunter to prevent Cult Shenanigans

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:43 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:40 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 pm Question regarding the no claims rule - does that mean if you're the cop/tracker/whatever you can't state your results?
Indeed. No infodumping at all. But there are still ways to use those types of roles.
It's still a handicap though

Going to be rough pulling off a town victory here unless the scum factions completely cannibalize each other

but there's also two different recruiters

so

fek
It’s a challenge for sure. All part of the balance. This is a semi-regular rule on the Syndicate.

It just means we need to put more energy into public scum hunting. So let’s do that. What can you tell us about yourself, Ultra? What’s your mafia experience? What’s your Day 1 approach?

What a silly question, it's Day 0

But to answer - my approach as town is to take a very active role

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:53 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:43 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:40 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 pm Question regarding the no claims rule - does that mean if you're the cop/tracker/whatever you can't state your results?
Indeed. No infodumping at all. But there are still ways to use those types of roles.
It's still a handicap though

Going to be rough pulling off a town victory here unless the scum factions completely cannibalize each other

but there's also two different recruiters

so

fek
It’s a challenge for sure. All part of the balance. This is a semi-regular rule on the Syndicate.

It just means we need to put more energy into public scum hunting. So let’s do that. What can you tell us about yourself, Ultra? What’s your mafia experience? What’s your Day 1 approach?
What a silly question, it's Day 0

But to answer - my approach as town is to take a very active role
What does “taking an active role” entail?

It's hard to characterize my own play, but I scum hunt, I try to influence the game's direction, I talk with other players.

And sometimes

I flex

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:56 pm Does the town lose when the Legends outnumber the baddies? Cause that means it could actually be counterproductive to lynch mafia.

Host should clear this up, I assumed they needed a majority but if it's just outnumbering other scum that's a different wincon

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:02 pm @Ultra what does your scum hunting look like? What types of games are you used to playing, mechanics/setup-wise? What kind of pizza did you get earlier?

A work of art

I sneak up on scum and hit em hard. Occasionally there's collateral damage. But I've been doing well as town the last few games I've played.

I'm used to playing milder role madness closed set ups, and some normal open set ups

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:13 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:10 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:08 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:02 pm @Ultra what does your scum hunting look like? What types of games are you used to playing, mechanics/setup-wise? What kind of pizza did you get earlier?
This is, like, the opposite of what I saw last game.

Also hi guys
What did you see last game?
Ultra has hesitant to interact with the thread, which is why I voted him D1. He spoke mostly to Nova, who was answering whatever was thrown his way. Some weird dependent thing.

This game, Ultra has already made a hot take and claimed that he's going to flex on the thread (not hesitant), and you're buzzing him with questions as if he needs the help. (Where Nova was just whatever about it)

Enough for an early townread on Ultra. Not sure what to think of all your questions yet. Feels kinda like fluff, but it's also something you do with new players.

Hey, I could just be playing on your expectations, you know!

How come nobody has commented on my suggestion

Forgot that the felicity player can't just post results

In that case, what we might want to try a coordinated effort to allow the felicity player to "claim indirectly"

Here's what I'm thinking, if all of us come together and decide on D1 that nobody is allowed to cast a vote, except for the felicity player who casts a vote on her peek, we get whoever we want out D1.

This doesn't break the claiming rules as far as I understand, because anybody can still step forth and vote. But if someone else does vote, we'll still know one is felicity and one is scum. So still a net +

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:25 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:20 pm How come nobody has commented on my suggestion
Because your suggestion is fishing. Your suggestion is impossible to implement without Felicity knowing who Rip Hunter is. Your suggestion is manure.

Read the role, poopyhead.

"Felicity is a tech genius. Once in the game she can submit a role to the host to find out who has the role."

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:26 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:20 pm How come nobody has commented on my suggestion
Because people are cautious about engaging in role-specific chatter this early in the game. It’s not a bad proposal. I haven’t looked close enough at the role list to say whether or not it’s the best.

Well, look.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:31 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 pm Forgot that the felicity player can't just post results

In that case, what we might want to try a coordinated effort to allow the felicity player to "claim indirectly"

Here's what I'm thinking, if all of us come together and decide on D1 that nobody is allowed to cast a vote, except for the felicity player who casts a vote on her peek, we get whoever we want out D1.

This doesn't break the claiming rules as far as I understand, because anybody can still step forth and vote. But if someone else does vote, we'll still know one is felicity and one is scum. So still a net +
This would be angleshooting and would be a violation of rules. And there’s no way to get players to buy in. And it is absolutely not worth the loss of civilian votes on Day 1. This plan would set us way back.

I propose we stick to the gameplan of making noise and hunting scum.

You sound like you're dismissing this out of hand way too easily. Strongly disagree, we should try to extract as much value out of our informational roles as we possibly can. If not my way, then some other way.

Angleshooting like this only arises because no claims in set ups like these are awkward

Now if the host comes out and says something like that is a no go, that's one thing. Though as a host myself, I feel like that's a gray area.

But if we can do it I don't see why it wouldn't work. The buy in would be "if you stick to the plan town benefits", so if you're not in you're automatically suspect. Then we proceed to get a D1 lynch of any role we want to.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:37 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:30 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:25 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:20 pm How come nobody has commented on my suggestion
Because your suggestion is fishing. Your suggestion is impossible to implement without Felicity knowing who Rip Hunter is. Your suggestion is manure.
Read the role, poopyhead.

"Felicity is a tech genius. Once in the game she can submit a role to the host to find out who has the role."

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:26 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:20 pm How come nobody has commented on my suggestion
Because people are cautious about engaging in role-specific chatter this early in the game. It’s not a bad proposal. I haven’t looked close enough at the role list to say whether or not it’s the best.
Well, look.
I know what the role says.

I spoke bourbonese.

Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 pm Forgot that the felicity player can't just post results

In that case, what we might want to try a coordinated effort to allow the felicity player to "claim indirectly"

Here's what I'm thinking, if all of us come together and decide on D1 that nobody is allowed to cast a vote, except for the felicity player who casts a vote on her peek, we get whoever we want out D1.

This doesn't break the claiming rules as far as I understand, because anybody can still step forth and vote. But if someone else does vote, we'll still know one is felicity and one is scum. So still a net +
I'm torn on you.

That you are advocating the use of a civilian role to find an independent is fishy.

Have you read Rip's role? His faction has to outnumber the mafia. That means Rip's crew is not mafia aligned. Rip's crew would have an incentive to lynch mafia. I like Rip's crew.

Well, my incentive with Rip is moreso that he's a cult than for explicit balance reasons, though I do think he's a net - to town.

With a cult running around converting literally whoever they want, we cannot trust any single player in the game. That's bad. Multiball is already enough of a clusterfuck, I'd rather do without that.

Being able to recruit is basically a factional kill anyway but worse

The only other role worth consideration would be darhk since RAG is unkillable without finding him. But I think cult's worse

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:46 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:40 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:37 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:30 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:25 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:20 pm How come nobody has commented on my suggestion
Because your suggestion is fishing. Your suggestion is impossible to implement without Felicity knowing who Rip Hunter is. Your suggestion is manure.
Read the role, poopyhead.

"Felicity is a tech genius. Once in the game she can submit a role to the host to find out who has the role."

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:26 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:20 pm How come nobody has commented on my suggestion
Because people are cautious about engaging in role-specific chatter this early in the game. It’s not a bad proposal. I haven’t looked close enough at the role list to say whether or not it’s the best.
Well, look.
I know what the role says.

I spoke bourbonese.

Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 pm Forgot that the felicity player can't just post results

In that case, what we might want to try a coordinated effort to allow the felicity player to "claim indirectly"

Here's what I'm thinking, if all of us come together and decide on D1 that nobody is allowed to cast a vote, except for the felicity player who casts a vote on her peek, we get whoever we want out D1.

This doesn't break the claiming rules as far as I understand, because anybody can still step forth and vote. But if someone else does vote, we'll still know one is felicity and one is scum. So still a net +
I'm torn on you.

That you are advocating the use of a civilian role to find an independent is fishy.

Have you read Rip's role? His faction has to outnumber the mafia. That means Rip's crew is not mafia aligned. Rip's crew would have an incentive to lynch mafia. I like Rip's crew.
Well, my incentive with Rip is moreso that he's a cult than for explicit balance reasons, though I do think he's a net - to town.

With a cult running around converting literally whoever they want, we cannot trust any single player in the game. That's bad. Multiball is already enough of a clusterfuck, I'd rather do without that.

Being able to recruit is basically a factional kill anyway but worse
If Rip can take anybody, it's a factional "kill" that can take mafia or other independents.

It's Day 0. Rip doesn't do anything until Day 2. Let us focus on the threats du jour rather than become paranoid early on about a possible independent threat.

"Rip Hunter is a Time Master, and he is recruiting a team of Legends to help him travel through time and space fixing aberrations to the timeline. Every even night he recruits a player to his team. The Legends will win if at any point the surviving Legends outnumber the surviving total baddies."

I took this as his recruits are town exclusive.

If this isn't the case then rip would know an entire faction once he recruited a scum which is a little game breaking.

By the way, I'm not paranoid. I'm efficient, baby.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:49 pm Civilians must vote to keep their heels on the throat of mafia. Any plan that recommends civilians do not vote is suspect to me.

Strawmanning my proposition. Scummy.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:44 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:37 pm Now if the host comes out and says something like that is a no go, that's one thing. Though as a host myself, I feel like that's a gray area.

But if we can do it I don't see why it wouldn't work. The buy in would be "if you stick to the plan town benefits", so if you're not in you're automatically suspect. Then we proceed to get a D1 lynch of any role we want to.
I am not the host but based on my years of experience on this site, I think that your proposal would be considered a violation.

As for my strategic objection: I think that the most important weapon a civilian has is their vote. A plan which involves have everybody abstain from voting on Day 1 is essentially waving the white flag on Day 1. Mafia get to kill somebody before we've tried to lynch them, and the activity that would normally take place on Day 1 is delayed until Day 2.

The plan would only have everyone abstain until the felicia player casts their first vote. Not sustain for the entire day. We would get a D1 scum lynch. Sorry if that was not clear.

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:53 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm Hot take

Felicity player should use her one shot on Rip Hunter to prevent Cult Shenanigans
at first glance cult looks pretty harmless early game, in my personal opinion it should be spent on someone like deathstroke, it brings down the average kpn from 2.5 (i assume) down to 1.5

i dont see any posts of ultra that would let me make a read as they are all pregame fluff which happens or strategic thinking which comes from both alignments

But with cult around you literally can't game solve as anybody could be town one moment and the next be unreliable. That ruins my incentive to play.

A recruit is better than a kill so I wouldn't call it harmless

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:53 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:44 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:37 pm Now if the host comes out and says something like that is a no go, that's one thing. Though as a host myself, I feel like that's a gray area.

But if we can do it I don't see why it wouldn't work. The buy in would be "if you stick to the plan town benefits", so if you're not in you're automatically suspect. Then we proceed to get a D1 lynch of any role we want to.
I am not the host but based on my years of experience on this site, I think that your proposal would be considered a violation.

As for my strategic objection: I think that the most important weapon a civilian has is their vote. A plan which involves have everybody abstain from voting on Day 1 is essentially waving the white flag on Day 1. Mafia get to kill somebody before we've tried to lynch them, and the activity that would normally take place on Day 1 is delayed until Day 2.
The plan would only have everyone abstain until the felicia player casts their first vote. Not sustain for the entire day. We would get a D1 scum lynch. Sorry if that was not clear.
That makes more sense.

But I still doubt we'd be allowed to do anything like that.

Do I mention the host or the game mod for this

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:01 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:59 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:53 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:44 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:37 pm Now if the host comes out and says something like that is a no go, that's one thing. Though as a host myself, I feel like that's a gray area.

But if we can do it I don't see why it wouldn't work. The buy in would be "if you stick to the plan town benefits", so if you're not in you're automatically suspect. Then we proceed to get a D1 lynch of any role we want to.
I am not the host but based on my years of experience on this site, I think that your proposal would be considered a violation.

As for my strategic objection: I think that the most important weapon a civilian has is their vote. A plan which involves have everybody abstain from voting on Day 1 is essentially waving the white flag on Day 1. Mafia get to kill somebody before we've tried to lynch them, and the activity that would normally take place on Day 1 is delayed until Day 2.
The plan would only have everyone abstain until the felicia player casts their first vote. Not sustain for the entire day. We would get a D1 scum lynch. Sorry if that was not clear.
That makes more sense.

But I still doubt we'd be allowed to do anything like that.
Do I mention the host or the game mod for this
This is a host issue.

I'll drop this for a second because you mentioned earlier other ways to make use of info roles - do you mind expanding, and how do you think we could possibly make use of felicia

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:04 pm I think you allow Felicia to determine that.

Can you see how the reflexive suggestion to "just let the info roles do their own thing man" in a no claim/info set up is kinda suspicious.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:53 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:49 pm Civilians must vote to keep their heels on the throat of mafia. Any plan that recommends civilians do not vote is suspect to me.
I would speculate that Ultra probably just comes from a community that's more accustomed to roleclaiming and mechanical hijinks than we are. He's thinking outside the box and, like speedchuck said before me, he's being very proactive and throwing himself into the thick of things right off the bat here, which contrasts with his Scrimmage entry.

I think he's town. He's just looking at the game from a different vantage point than the Syndicate is used to.

I actually wanted to comment on this. In my community, we do closed role madness set ups which allow role/character claiming in most cases, but by design, do not allow claiming to give too much of an advantage (and often, a counter advantage). We minimize the amount of roles that are actually alignment indicative and this encourages play which focuses on the social aspect more than the mechanics.

So I wouldn't describe myself as a mechanical player. But if I see a free lunch, I'm going to eat it.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:11 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:07 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:04 pm I think you allow Felicia to determine that.
Can you see how the reflexive suggestion to "just let the info roles do their own thing man" in a no claim/info set up is kinda suspicious.
No.

Whatever information civilians telegraph in the thread is information the mafia have. There is no advantage.

I cut my teeth here. DFaraday games are my kind of game. I want the civilians to use their roles in accordance with their best judgment. Some of the roles in this setup would make even me nervous if I were bad.

Let them do their job. If you are good, your job is to help lynch mafia.

Finding a way to broadcast peeks itt is beneficial to scum. Ok.

I'll drop this point when I'm satisfied that there's no avenue here to extract valuable info from info roles. But I have not played a no claim set up with cops because, quite frankly, it's very awkward and defies the point of including them. For example, the felicia player or whoever else could drop hints or breadcrumb but I would assume that's also against the rules if my proposition is.

So when I see you suggest "let them sort it out", you're effectively saying "do nothing"

Eh alright

nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:26 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:50 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:49 pm Civilians must vote to keep their heels on the throat of mafia. Any plan that recommends civilians do not vote is suspect to me.
Strawmanning my proposition. Scummy.
No. He's stating something that is more or less taken for granted on this site. What's going on here is culture clash, but it's not scummy.

Two potential problems with your plan that are more specific than just general cultural aversion:
(1) DF didn't specify this but in many games on this site players are really not supposed to miss the vote and can be admonished/modkilled/replaced for not voting because it's viewed as a "participation score" and again this is a cultural thing but even if it's not in the rules by the host, it's viewed as poor play and not pro-town because, again, we value the lynch poll as the main tool of the town faction to win the game.
(2) This isn't necessarily clear in the role description but I'd guess that Felicity's role is restricted to the night phase and would not have had a chance to get a peek by day 1. I could be wrong about this though.

I said it was a strawman because I was not suggesting the entire town abstain D1, but I guess I didn't make that very clear

nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:31 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:44 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:37 pm Now if the host comes out and says something like that is a no go, that's one thing. Though as a host myself, I feel like that's a gray area.

But if we can do it I don't see why it wouldn't work. The buy in would be "if you stick to the plan town benefits", so if you're not in you're automatically suspect. Then we proceed to get a D1 lynch of any role we want to.
I am not the host but based on my years of experience on this site, I think that your proposal would be considered a violation.

As for my strategic objection: I think that the most important weapon a civilian has is their vote. A plan which involves have everybody abstain from voting on Day 1 is essentially waving the white flag on Day 1. Mafia get to kill somebody before we've tried to lynch them, and the activity that would normally take place on Day 1 is delayed until Day 2.
The plan would only have everyone abstain until the felicia player casts their first vote. Not sustain for the entire day. We would get a D1 scum lynch. Sorry if that was not clear.
......even with all the other problems, this would never work. You just expect to assume the first player to vote is that role? Not a random scum voting for a town to get everyone to pile their votes on and go on their merry way?

I feel like you just didn't even think that through

Uh, no.

It would be just like a cop vs cop fake claim scenario. If scum wants to fake claim, they get contested by the felicia player. We know one of them is scum, and one of them is felicia. We could lynch between the two and in fact, if the peeked scum is different than the fake claiming scum (likely), that's two right there.

I thought it through very well thank you very much

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:36 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:35 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:31 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:51 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:44 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:37 pm Now if the host comes out and says something like that is a no go, that's one thing. Though as a host myself, I feel like that's a gray area.

But if we can do it I don't see why it wouldn't work. The buy in would be "if you stick to the plan town benefits", so if you're not in you're automatically suspect. Then we proceed to get a D1 lynch of any role we want to.
I am not the host but based on my years of experience on this site, I think that your proposal would be considered a violation.

As for my strategic objection: I think that the most important weapon a civilian has is their vote. A plan which involves have everybody abstain from voting on Day 1 is essentially waving the white flag on Day 1. Mafia get to kill somebody before we've tried to lynch them, and the activity that would normally take place on Day 1 is delayed until Day 2.
The plan would only have everyone abstain until the felicia player casts their first vote. Not sustain for the entire day. We would get a D1 scum lynch. Sorry if that was not clear.
......even with all the other problems, this would never work. You just expect to assume the first player to vote is that role? Not a random scum voting for a town to get everyone to pile their votes on and go on their merry way?

I feel like you just didn't even think that through
Uh, no.

It would be just like a cop vs cop fake claim scenario. If scum wants to fake claim, they get contested by the felicia player. We know one of them is scum, and one of them is felicia. We could lynch between the two and in fact, if the peeked scum is different than the fake claiming scum (likely), that's two right there.

I thought it through very well thank you very much
There's no claiming in this game.

But you see-

alright, subject officially dropped

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:37 pm Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.

Philosophical disagreement since claiming, fake claiming, info complexity aid depth to games. I'm totally for copless games but no claim is weird for me. I'll adapt though.

This is multiball so I'm not even going to try to town hunt except in a passive sense. It's easy for indi's to pass. It's easy for scum to pass when they're hunting other scum.

Though, I appreciate the universal town read, and if we can find townies, it goes a long way

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:47 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:46 pm Though, I appreciate the universal town read, and if we can find townies, it goes a long way
Shit we just got Ultra recruited.

Shit. Maybe I should start scumming ahead of time in anticipation.

On that note I still strongly recommend that felicity targets rip hunter and try and hint/breadcrumb as much as they can in the confines of the rules.

Anyone disagree?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:53 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:52 pm On that note I still strongly recommend that felicity targets rip hunter and try and hint/breadcrumb as much as they can in the confines of the rules.

Anyone disagree?
Yes.

I'd like some host clarification on whether Rip can recruit baddies, I assumed not given flavor and balance

[mention]DFaraday[/mention]

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:52 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:48 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:29 pm Let's decide whether or not a thing is pingworthy, gang.
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:13 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:10 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:08 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:02 pm @Ultra what does your scum hunting look like? What types of games are you used to playing, mechanics/setup-wise? What kind of pizza did you get earlier?
This is, like, the opposite of what I saw last game.

Also hi guys
What did you see last game?
Ultra has hesitant to interact with the thread, which is why I voted him D1. He spoke mostly to Nova, who was answering whatever was thrown his way. Some weird dependent thing.

This game, Ultra has already made a hot take and claimed that he's going to flex on the thread (not hesitant), and you're buzzing him with questions as if he needs the help. (Where Nova was just whatever about it)

Enough for an early townread on Ultra. Not sure what to think of all your questions yet. Feels kinda like fluff, but it's also something you do with new players.
The highlighted portion feels tacked on and arbitrary. Speedchuck has shared a straightforward read about Ultra when prompted. He then adds a nothing read on Sloonei which acknowledges that he is observing Regular Sloonei Behavior, but quibbles over it anyway. Why does this non-read on Sloonei exist?
Why not?

Why does this non-read on speedchuck exist?

Why does anything exist?
I have substantiated a gripe that I have with a Speedchuck post on Day 0. It exists to bolster the conversation in the thread.

Speedchuck gave an indecisive wave of the hand. I'd like him to tell us what it means, and I'd like other people to comment on it.

Why does your response exist?

Your behavior might be meta consistent but that's independent of how it looks on the surface. It feels like he was weighing between the two rather than giving a hedgy read.

MafiaMenace wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:53 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 9:49 pm Hot take

Felicity player should use her one shot on Rip Hunter to prevent Cult Shenanigans
at first glance cult looks pretty harmless early game, in my personal opinion it should be spent on someone like deathstroke, it brings down the average kpn from 2.5 (i assume) down to 1.5

i dont see any posts of ultra that would let me make a read as they are all pregame fluff which happens or strategic thinking which comes from both alignments

Wonder if there's any intention peeking through here.

Yeah Deathstroke does kill every night, and as SK he's problematic.

But in the immediate sense he's a much bigger problem for the scum teams

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:01 am Ultra, my concern with you remains: You are fixated on Rip. There are five mafia to lynch. Rip does nothing until Night 2. Are the five killers not a concern to you? If they are, why are you not about sorting who they may be?

I can't emphasize enough how much I'm triggered by cults. I already admitted it isn't an entirely balance concern for me so much as that I feel like, between the 8 starting scum and potential for recruitment, we can easily get very close to a minority town situation while the game continues, and at that point, it's somewhat unenjoyable to play.

I only appear fixated because we have one super peek from felicia. So ofc I'm going to bring up the biggest priority.

The Sk is another potential target but they can absorb a lynch which is pretty annoying

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:04 am @Ultra
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:45 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:40 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:37 pm Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.
Philosophical disagreement since claiming, fake claiming, info complexity aid depth to games. I'm totally for copless games but no claim is weird for me. I'll adapt though.
Got any impressions on particular players so far?

Just soft ones atm.

I think Epi comes off somewhat better than you do

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:13 am
Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:11 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:04 am @Ultra
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:45 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:40 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:37 pm Trust me on this: If you want to hone your Mafia skills, a classic Syndicate game like this one is worth your while. No claims, no info- just stare into people's souls on the Internet.
Philosophical disagreement since claiming, fake claiming, info complexity aid depth to games. I'm totally for copless games but no claim is weird for me. I'll adapt though.
Got any impressions on particular players so far?

Just soft ones atm.

I think Epi comes off somewhat better than you do
Explain

nah

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:21 am
Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:18 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:13 am
Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:11 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:04 am @Ultra
Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:45 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:40 pm

Philosophical disagreement since claiming, fake claiming, info complexity aid depth to games. I'm totally for copless games but no claim is weird for me. I'll adapt though.
Got any impressions on particular players so far?

Just soft ones atm.

I think Epi comes off somewhat better than you do
Explain
nah
Why not?

im tired

DFaraday wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 12:31 am In answer to some popular questions:

The game continues until either the civs or baddies are eliminated, or Deathstroke is LMS. The Legends can achieve their win condition without ending the game. They can win with any faction except Deathstroke. Rip can recruit any role that is not un-recruitable, including Mafia.

Also the plan players suggested earlier would effectively be asking a player to roleclaim, so it's right out.

So once legends achieve their wincon they just up and leave

well in that case I totally change my mind

get @me cult

So I guess felicia should go for deathstroke or prometheus.

If rip hunter hits a scum he can learn the rest and potentially cannibalize em lol

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:19 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 pm Forgot that the felicity player can't just post results

In that case, what we might want to try a coordinated effort to allow the felicity player to "claim indirectly"

Here's what I'm thinking, if all of us come together and decide on D1 that nobody is allowed to cast a vote, except for the felicity player who casts a vote on her peek, we get whoever we want out D1.

This doesn't break the claiming rules as far as I understand, because anybody can still step forth and vote. But if someone else does vote, we'll still know one is felicity and one is scum. So still a net +
Interesting idea but that would not only out them and give scum a target

But wouldnt it be better to hold off using that until late game where there’ll be more information regarding player alignment?

I mean the felicity player's peak is a one shot, and can ascertain the identity of any player role in the game, so I think it's a no brainer that it would be used straight away

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:25 pm
Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:19 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 pm Forgot that the felicity player can't just post results

In that case, what we might want to try a coordinated effort to allow the felicity player to "claim indirectly"

Here's what I'm thinking, if all of us come together and decide on D1 that nobody is allowed to cast a vote, except for the felicity player who casts a vote on her peek, we get whoever we want out D1.

This doesn't break the claiming rules as far as I understand, because anybody can still step forth and vote. But if someone else does vote, we'll still know one is felicity and one is scum. So still a net +
Interesting idea but that would not only out them and give scum a target

But wouldnt it be better to hold off using that until late game where there’ll be more information regarding player alignment?
This has already been resolved and put to bed, but any type of maneuver like this would violate the no-claiming rules.

Well, the matter of coordinating a move like this has been put to bed.

I'm still interested in how we can acquire this information.

If we just suggest, for example, that the felicity player hints by voting out of the gate, without telling anyone else explicitly not to do that, I think it would be a huge stretch to consider that angleshooting.

Assuming the felicity player can get their peek straightaway (it says once per game, so I assume any time, but it might be a night exclusive action)

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:48 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 11:46 pm Though, I appreciate the universal town read, and if we can find townies, it goes a long way
Or it makes you a target for recruitment

By the already established innocuous cult faction yes

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:54 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:48 pm
Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:19 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 pm Forgot that the felicity player can't just post results

In that case, what we might want to try a coordinated effort to allow the felicity player to "claim indirectly"

Here's what I'm thinking, if all of us come together and decide on D1 that nobody is allowed to cast a vote, except for the felicity player who casts a vote on her peek, we get whoever we want out D1.

This doesn't break the claiming rules as far as I understand, because anybody can still step forth and vote. But if someone else does vote, we'll still know one is felicity and one is scum. So still a net +
Interesting idea but that would not only out them and give scum a target

But wouldnt it be better to hold off using that until late game where there’ll be more information regarding player alignment?
I mean the felicity player's peak is a one shot, and can ascertain the identity of any player role in the game, so I think it's a no brainer that it would be used straight away
I mean sure if you wanna get a scum right from the start and not give them any chance to out their teammates

But there are only 2 (pending 3) in the mafia team currently

uh

there are like, 7 scum in this game

potentially 8

Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:57 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:55 pm
Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:54 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:48 pm
Luxurious wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:19 pm
Ultra wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2019 10:28 pm Forgot that the felicity player can't just post results

In that case, what we might want to try a coordinated effort to allow the felicity player to "claim indirectly"

Here's what I'm thinking, if all of us come together and decide on D1 that nobody is allowed to cast a vote, except for the felicity player who casts a vote on her peek, we get whoever we want out D1.

This doesn't break the claiming rules as far as I understand, because anybody can still step forth and vote. But if someone else does vote, we'll still know one is felicity and one is scum. So still a net +
Interesting idea but that would not only out them and give scum a target

But wouldnt it be better to hold off using that until late game where there’ll be more information regarding player alignment?
I mean the felicity player's peak is a one shot, and can ascertain the identity of any player role in the game, so I think it's a no brainer that it would be used straight away
I mean sure if you wanna get a scum right from the start and not give them any chance to out their teammates

But there are only 2 (pending 3) in the mafia team currently
uh

there are like, 7 scum in this game
Not counting independents acting outside of traditional town/scum wincon

me neither

there are two mafia factions

Anyway there's a point in that there's potential for reads by waiting to use the shot but there's two problems with this

1) The remote possibility that felicity dies
2) Interactive reads and PoE is more difficult in a multiball game

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