The Syndicate

I have a question. Is it normal for people on this site to claim mafia as town? I’m playing my first game here.

On principle, I scumread Hally, ted and tutuu already, because they all claimed mafia and I don’t like that.

Tutuu’s followup where she claims cop instead doesn’t make me feel better about her slot; instead, it makes me think she’s mafia, who thinks that these claims are Funny and Towny. They are not.

Hally’s post that they were being scummy on purpose reads like a mafia excuse. I do not buy it it. This is still a mafia read.

Light townread on Ash Lael for his take on NANOOK. I think it was a good take, and I like the way it was phrased. Concise, to the point, no unnecessary flair, no hedging or doubt.

Post #137 by Hally contains some useful information if Hally’s mafia. Namely, it spews Michelle town in that world. I don’t like either of the takes on Michelle even without my scumread on Hally; they feel quite forced, and the first one comes across as written in bad faith. “Oh, I was totally being scummy on purpose and they ignored it, so they are mafia for ignoring my scummy self.”

The fact it is prefaced by “at the risk of jumping the gun” is also the type of hedge I read as mafia indicative. It preemptively establishes that “the person writing the post can be wrong, and that you should consider that if you kill Michelle and she flips town.”

I also don’t like Hally’s later townread on Michelle, because it feels forced. I don’t mind the progression change nearly as much as I do mind the reasoning behind the read. “She made a read on me involving me posting a spoiler, which is towny, so I will read you town now.” It doesn’t sound genuine to me.

You could disregard my mafia reads if it is common to claim mafia here, but I think tutuu and Hally have both crossed into “mafia even outside of their mafia claims” territory.

Ash Lael is legitimately my only townread so far and even that one is light. In fact, while writing this post, I think I should shift him back to null, because my reason for townreading him is rather thin to begin with.

Arete still has not posted anything outside of their mafia range. Unsurprisingly, since they have barely posted substantial stuff.

Off-Topic: Looks like Hally is in the same club of mafia where Arete belongs as well. “People who were in Champs but still call themselves bad at mafia for some reason.” You guys are good, and I’m going to treat you with respect of your play within the game. Which means, no easy clears. Have fun, Hally, the one who did not want to feel pressured

This is the post where I would place a naked vote on Hally and call it a day, but apparently it's day 0 (the concept is novel to me) and we can't vote. Unfortunate.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:20 am Vulgard stop memeing in scum chat and meme here instead

I'm honestly glad I randed town during my first game here. It would be rather stressful to rand mafia during my first game on a new site, even if I prefer to be mafia.

In fact, Arete's few posts are EXTREMELY underwhelming. My read there is still pending, but I'd like to point this out nonetheless. Me and Arete have a thing similar to your JJJ/Sloonei, where we have plenty of experience with one another and can typically read one another perfectly by EoD1 / EoD2 at the latest. At this point, I already expect Arete to read me town regardless of their alignment, because my opening post is something they would 100% call towny.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:26 am Also ftr tutu’s thing is a bit of a running joke...she claimed 3p a couple games ago, got a combination of policy and “we have time to so fuck it let’s TK her” killed...next game like an absolute legend comes out immediately claiming scum and spends like half the first day sticking to the bit

I think that's actually a very mafia thing to do in this game if what you're saying is true. After getting partially PLed in the previous game as town, I assume that you wouldn't want that to happen to you once more, should you rand town again. Not caring about preventing that mistake seems mafia indicative to me with this context.

I don't understand Hally calling everyone town. So far, I've been calling everyone mafia. Maybe it's culture shock, to some degree.

Poison and Michelle's posts have left absolutely no impression on me after I read them for the first time. I might have to re-read them and see what I think.

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:25 am In fact, Arete's few posts are EXTREMELY underwhelming. My read there is still pending, but I'd like to point this out nonetheless. Me and Arete have a thing similar to your JJJ/Sloonei, where we have plenty of experience with one another and can typically read one another perfectly by EoD1 / EoD2 at the latest. At this point, I already expect Arete to read me town regardless of their alignment, because my opening post is something they would 100% call towny.

I think I'm understating this read. Arete's opening string of posts was EXTREMELY weak and I expect better from TownRete. I hope to see significant improvement before EoD1 or I am going to tunnel them into the ground.

Well, if tutuu does it all the time, then the read matters less. Any thoughts about the meme cop claim, or is that also something she does as town?

If everything she's posted so far has been a form of meming, I'm looking forward to what she can post when she isn't in meme mode.

I can't wait for V/V/V wagons or something like that. Always seems to happen when I play offsite.

Poison, leave an impression on me. 3, 2, 1, go.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:37 am Also we’ve already determined this will be a meme game so

No takebacksies

I'd rather have a meme game than Marson 2, to be frank.
Sorry for that one, again.

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:41 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:39 am Poison, leave an impression on me. 3, 2, 1, go.

I LOVE HAIKYUU AND PENGUINS!!!!!!!

Pocketed.
I unironically find this response quite towny. Thank you.

I could say a few things about myself if you think it'll help you read me better (or if you're just curious overall).

Playing as town would be more fun if you didn't have the "solve the game" burden. It feels like every town death is a punch in the gut, especially if you were on their wagon, or even worse -- if you are the one who started their wagon and kept traction there. When you're mafia, doing that to your partners feels much less problematic, because both of you generally agree to do this in scumchat. Being mafia also means you don't have the "solving the game" burden in most cases.

Having this take might mean I'm sensitive, and that wouldn't be inaccurate. I'm INFP-A (according to 16personalities, and I agree with it), and this type is known for being sensitive, whether they hide it or not.

I don't like to play 3p, because in most cases, they have no reason to care about the game, only about their wincon. I've hardly seen any neutrals who needed to be active participants at all times, except maybe the NK, and I dislike the NK as a concept.

I think Wind would be the most universally useful, depending on my level of control. I could fly, move things around, and more. The possibilities seem endless. Fire is too destructive, and Ice seems more... situational. And more problematic for others no matter how I end up using it.

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:54 am Playing as town would be more fun if you didn't have the "solve the game" burden. It feels like every town death is a punch in the gut, especially if you were on their wagon, or even worse -- if you are the one who started their wagon and kept traction there. When you're mafia, doing that to your partners feels much less problematic, because both of you generally agree to do this in scumchat. Being mafia also means you don't have the "solving the game" burden in most cases.

Having this take might mean I'm sensitive, and that wouldn't be inaccurate. I'm INFP-A (according to 16personalities, and I agree with it), and this type is known for being sensitive, whether they hide it or not.

I don't like to play 3p, because in most cases, they have no reason to care about the game, only about their wincon. I've hardly seen any neutrals who needed to be active participants at all times, except maybe the NK, and I dislike the NK as a concept.

I think Wind would be the most universally useful, depending on my level of control. I could fly, move things around, and more. The possibilities seem endless. Fire is too destructive, and Ice seems more... situational. And more problematic for others no matter how I end up using it.

I may or may not have this take because I've screwed things up in LYLO too many times.

Taking a personality test wasn't a waste for me at all. It helped me figure myself out, primarily because I'd felt that I'd been alone, thinking the way I did. I suppose I understand that tests like these are not that important to some people, though.

My investment mostly depends on my irl state of mind, but it's relatively equal between alignments. Most people say my towngame is miles ahead of my mafia game, and I tentatively agree, but I still prefer mafia. I just don't rand mafia very often.

I'm more of a leader in mafia games than anywhere else, honestly. I just like doing things. One of the most fun aspects of mafia is that you can do things, if it makes sense. Like start wagons and build cases on people. Everyone has equal agency.

It makes me feel like my words matter, which isn't necessarily the case in real life.

That said, I don't think I should be a town leader and I generally avoid the role. I have miskilled too many townies while being in that role, and since I don't like the guilt of killing a fellow town member, doing it repeatedly and leading town into its demise isn't something I want to do as town.

Fairly cynical approach, though I guess you're right.
Still, since it came at a time when I was desperate to understand myself, I'm still glad I took it.

Getting back on topic, I tentatively townread NANOOK for what he has done in the thread until now. I think he's relaxed enough, and his posts have not pinged me very much. And he also has plenty of them.

Looking forward to seeing more people post so that I can read them.

That's fair.

Tutuu keeps saying that she loves everyone so that they won't have it in their heart to scumread her and vote her. Change my mind.

Not a huge fan of this response. It comes across as more dismissive than it should be.

Lol3ps. I'm very neuts out, so if you claim neutral, I'll make sure you die.

My read on tutuu hasn't really changed.

To be fair, though, I think I'm being stubborn about my read on tutuu, because her pattern of claiming mafia still lingers somewhere in my head.

Ash's last post felt a little too meticulous and constructed for my taste. He can go back to null. I don't believe this is a playstyle thing. Maybe a hint of paranoia within me,

The reason I'm hesitant to townread Ash is because I get the impression that he's fully capable of writing the posts he has written as either alignment. So far, there hasn't been anything telling me that he certainly doesn't have more information than he should.

My townread on Poison is mostly a result of her open excitement and the energy of her response to my slight pressure. It felt free of doubt, and free of worry. It looked like she hadn't even thought twice about what she was going to write, which is a good sign.

I dislike tutuu claiming mafia and then cop as a meme, but since it's apparently something she does as town all the time, it shouldn't be a factor in my read.
Independently from that, I disliked her response to my slight pressure, because it felt very dismissive. Like she was internally self-conscious and it slipped through in her response. While it wasn't openly hostile, it had the underlying tone of "leave me alone this instant."

I also dislike the fact she appears to be fluffposting a lot. Nanook is doing the same thing, but his fluff is sprinkled with interactions and reads, and feels much less rigid overall. The impression I get from tutuu is that she is trying a bit too hard to fit into the thread, which shines through specifically in her interactions with Poison. She has been focusing on those for quite a while, and they are hardly related to the game we're playing, which leads me to believe she wants to enter the game without garnering suspicion by doing it "through a townie" instead of on her own merits.

I'm not certain if others understand my thought process on tutuu, but this is where I currently stand.

I would talk more about Hally, but I am waiting for them to post more. I obviously disliked them claiming mafia, and I considered their earlier read on Michelle rather forced, including the progression into reading Michelle town. It felt rigid and somewhat performative, like someone trying to be townread because they are trying to solve another player right away. The "solve" did not feel very natural to me.

I think my read on tutuu is going to evolve into something better put-together as the game progresses. Right now, I have a few lingering suspicions I'm trying to organize, but it doesn't really paint a complete picture. I think I'm trying to fit square pegs into circular holes.

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:59 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:54 am The reason I'm hesitant to townread Ash is because I get the impression that he's fully capable of writing the posts he has written as either alignment. So far, there hasn't been anything telling me that he certainly doesn't have more information than he should.

My townread on Poison is mostly a result of her open excitement and the energy of her response to my slight pressure. It felt free of doubt, and free of worry. It looked like she hadn't even thought twice about what she was going to write, which is a good sign.

Ehh re: Poison part

It is only day 0, would any scum feel pressured or spill out something scummy from light pressures, vulgard? I don't think so? Besides which post was supposed to be the pressure

I put you on the spot when I asked you to make an impression on me, and the way you responded did not feel like a mafia response. Of course, the fact you don't even think it was a sign pressure is also towny, because I think you would be more aware of that as mafia (mafia are attuned to people's reads on them, which is only natural).

I also like the fact you didn't ignore the post and responded to it instantly. You could easily ignore it without repercussions, or you could have responded with a meme, but that isn't really what happened.

I agree, this isn't the most logical or cohesive read, but I feel fairly good about it.

tutuu wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:01 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:59 am I dislike tutuu claiming mafia and then cop as a meme, but since it's apparently something she does as town all the time, it shouldn't be a factor in my read.
Independently from that, I disliked her response to my slight pressure, because it felt very dismissive. Like she was internally self-conscious and it slipped through in her response. While it wasn't openly hostile, it had the underlying tone of "leave me alone this instant."

I also dislike the fact she appears to be fluffposting a lot. Nanook is doing the same thing, but his fluff is sprinkled with interactions and reads, and feels much less rigid overall. The impression I get from tutuu is that she is trying a bit too hard to fit into the thread, which shines through specifically in her interactions with Poison. She has been focusing on those for quite a while, and they are hardly related to the game we're playing, which leads me to believe she wants to enter the game without garnering suspicion by doing it "through a townie" instead of on her own merits.

I'm not certain if others understand my thought process on tutuu, but this is where I currently stand.

I would talk more about Hally, but I am waiting for them to post more. I obviously disliked them claiming mafia, and I considered their earlier read on Michelle rather forced, including the progression into reading Michelle town. It felt rigid and somewhat performative, like someone trying to be townread because they are trying to solve another player right away. The "solve" did not feel very natural to me.

It surprises me that "leave me alone this instant" is something u perceive as scummy and not towny

I perceive it as scummy because it seems very overblown for this stage of the game.

I'm not very confident about it, and my logic has obvious holes, but I still think you are more likely to be mafia than not. I don't see the issue. I'm just making it clear that I'm aware of these holes.

Can you evolve that thought about me "pre-planning my reads and progression?" It seems like a random addition if you can't back it up.

I've known you for a few days at most. If you think I can describe your personality in 1 word and do it accurately, your expectations are too high.
Your stubborn indignation is probably the towniest thing you have done this game from my perspective, but I have miscleared mafia after saying that before and I don't plan to do that again.

Poison Chan wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:10 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:01 am I think my read on tutuu is going to evolve into something better put-together as the game progresses. Right now, I have a few lingering suspicions I'm trying to organize, but it doesn't really paint a complete picture. I think I'm trying to fit square pegs into circular holes.

I think you are taking stuff too seriously right from the start? I mean ofc your reads gonna change and even you'll end up redoing or adding details in your complete picture? But yeah giving reads is never bad, it's in the good list.

The fact I've been giving serious reads this entire time, despite it being day 0, is not alignment indicative for me. I tend to avoid RVS and jump straight into making reads, because I think establishing a baseline as quickly as possible is very useful. It allows you to track progression and push the game in certain directions from the very first moments of the game. When I'm mafia, I do this to establish my presence in the game and start making mafia-sided pushes. When I'm town, I do this to organize my impressions, create reads on everyone in the game and build a viable solve from there.

Tutuu's claim just now that "I am making imperfect cases and pointing out they are imperfect on purpose for the sake of pocketing" is a very... unique thought. I don't think it makes much sense to actually believe that, though. When have you seen a mafia member do something like this?

I initially believed that tutuu's claim just now was towny, but then I realized it doesn't make sense for her to believe what she said. "Building imperfect cases on purpose and pointing it out for the sake of pocketing." That sounds like an incredibly forced reason to suggest that my push is not town-motivated.

Also, I firmly believe that pushing people is the way to solve games. Maybe the culture is different here, I don't know that yet.
Might as well push as early as possible to make things happen, right?

I can be wrong. I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.
If you don't feel like arguing the subject with me, then don't. I'm not forcing you. I'll be evaluating you all the time. If you're town, I'll try to find you town despite my initial concerns.

One thing about tutuu's response just now is that the thought I quoted doesn't make sense... which is why it might come from town. One would think that mafia tutuu would respond with something that actually makes sense, but instead, I received this tinfoil-like partial OMGUS.

That's one thing that could make her town.

Judging by what NANOOK just said, it's apparently normal for tutuu to overreact to early suspicion. I don't think I'm getting much more out of this for the time being.

Ash, any thoughts about NANOOK?

So, I suppose I'll have to put up with the fact that tutuu gives people sass for scumreading her / disagreeing with her but immediately compliments them if they townread her / agree with her.
Sigh.

Does anyone have a mafia game to link me so I can check if she does this routine as mafia as well?

I don't want to tutuunnel one player all day. Looking forward to what Hally has to say when they arrive here again.

Side note, but are we really posting a lot? I'm accustomed to days with many thousands of posts and people's postcounts reaching one thousand lategame if the game lasts fairly long.

I meant "games with many thousands of posts," not "days."

Forum of Lies.
I have been going by Vulgard in 90% of the communities I've ever joined, including Forum of Lies.

Our site has a massive mafia winrate, so I'd like a town win.

Every time somebody openwolfs, I put them a tier lower on my internal readlist.

The character's Phi, from Zero Escape: Virtue's Last Reward. It's a visual novel and a fun game, although sometimes difficult.

I probably post more as town, but I don't think the difference is very notable. I could go back to my recent games and check, but my playstyle has shifted around so much that I don't know if whatever data I find is going to be accurate.

Ash Lael wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:06 am

Vulgard wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:03 am Every time somebody openwolfs, I put them a tier lower on my internal readlist.

I don’t actually think it’s >rand scum but it does make me emotionally want to scum read them because I would hate to lose to it.

I lost to it recently, and I felt so styled on that I scumread it on principle now.

I wrote a longer post about tutuu, but then I realized that I was probably wasting my time pursuing her.

To ted: probably. I think I alluded to it in an earlier post.

112 and Michelle have not done enough for me to have a read on them.

I have a theory that Ash could be mafia. There's something about his play I just don't like, and it keeps on nagging at me. He seems a little too... agreeable, if that makes sense. His NANOOK scumread surprised me, because Ash had never pushed NANOOK prior to making that read, and he has not pushed NANOOK since then, as far as I can tell. It is not mafia indicative, but it is something I am keeping in mind.

I'm currently conflicted on tutuu. On the one hand, I think my reasons for suspecting her are solid. On the other hand, she is still continuing a very bizarre play pattern I scumread her for (and I was not the only one!), she has not changed her play whatsoever to appeal to me, nor has she done anything beyond what I've already said that came across as scummy to me. I'm starting to wonder if I'm scumreading her personality instead of her actual play.

Hally's re-entrance into the thread did not ping me either way. The fact I'm called obvious town by Hally seems... weirdly dismissive, just like the way I felt when tutuu responded to me in that one post.

I don't really understand the ted townreads. His posts have not pinged me as town whatsoever.
In general, I don't really understand how tutuu gets any of her reads, and the way she reacts to pressure has been less than stellar. The only thing that is towny about her from my perspective is how much she insists upon keeping up this bizarre play pattern.

I don't know 112's pronouns, so feel free to correct me. I know Hally's a they, though.

I just don't get it, tutuu. You have five (?) town and the majority of that list has just been people who agreed with you and/or called you town. The only people you have shown hostility toward have been the people who pushed on you and/or called you mafia, and yet you don't even have a mafia list despite the kneejerk OMGUS you've been displaying. Do you really think that everyone who's friendly with you has to be town? Because that's the impression I get from your read progression and your list of townreads in general.