The Syndicate

Hi all I think I'm replacing in, waiting for confirmation from sloon. Been casually following the thread all along so I have at least a couple thoughts already

I just had some really delicious Mac for lunch

My phone automatically capitalizes Mac haha

No.


Anyway I've been pretty sure this whole time that Gemma is bad. I don't have all the details assembled but it's a strong tonal read. Also, I have as usual a healthy tinfoil on Jay and I thought they were compatible esp with that night action claim, but I'm second guessing that since Jay is going hard after her now all of a sudden and he doesn't bus like that ever. Will compile thoughts on other players later but for now [VOTE: gemma] aubergine

I think she had TMI on epi, partly bc I really thought epi was bad lol

But then she doesn't know him. Still that makes her "gut read" more iffy.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 4:37 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 4:37 pm Wait fuck does this game have maj

No it doesnt

If [mention]Sloonei[/mention] is correctly following the champs model exactly, majority should be enabled from D2 onward I believe

Would say dragomir might have just faked a dumbtell/townslip, but it's plausible enough that he actually didn't read the setup huh

I started playing mafia at 13.


Granted, in a community with a much more casual laid-back style at the time -- but it grew with me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 5:48 pm I could be mistaken, but I cannot remember off-hand seeing any instance of a player actually committing a "dumbtell" on purpose to gain credit in a game. I think it looks pretty authentic.

Didn't LC fake slip about there being a 3p in some game a while back? That was a whole thing but I don't remember the details so it may not be comparable.

Lol good to see Mac playing devil's advocate.

Will have time for more research after work but from everything I've seen I'm happy with the Gemma vote.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 6:26 pm Okay I back from prepping my hot Mac injection. I read the first 10 posts Gemma made and want to lynch her.

Right on dude

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 6:28 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 6:23 pm Lol good to see Mac playing devil's advocate.

Will have time for more research after work but from everything I've seen I'm happy with the Gemma vote.

Lol I guess

Oooof sorry Gemma and rip nova.


Dragomir bad. Read his iso overnight and will gather my dirt in about an hour

About that DADV.... more scrutiny is in order. Really thought Gemma was bad though.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 7:09 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 7:01 pm Gemma was lynched. She was Town.

It is Night 3. You have 24 hours to submit your night actions.

Called it.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 7:00 pm novaselinenever has been killed. He was Town.

It is now Day 4. You have 48 hours to lynch someone.

Called it!

I don't care if you take this as a scum trying to get cred from correctly town reading players who flipped town or something like that.

I stay firm on my suspicion against Jessie, Owner, DDL.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 7:15 pm Hey nutella

Give me a readslist

Dragon D Luffy
MacDougall
Luxurious
JaggedJimmyJay
Owner of a Lonely Heart
M Plus 7
rundontwalk2
JessieKruger
speedchuck
Dragomir

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 7:40 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 7:37 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 7:15 pm Hey nutella

Give me a readslist

Dragon D Luffy
MacDougall
Luxurious
JaggedJimmyJay
Owner of a Lonely Heart
M Plus 7
rundontwalk2
JessieKruger
speedchuck
Dragomir

Now THAT is interesting

Firstly, why the color variants?

Secondly, what’s stopping you from townreading JJJ? Why are you scumreading Speed?

I have some amount of "tinfoil" suspicion of Jay.

More on speed when I have time, but it's partially related to my dragomir suspicion

Idk what you're asking about the colors, those are p standard here and I think fairly self-explanatory

Unless you're colorblind I guess

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 8:00 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 7:45 pm Idk what you're asking about the colors, those are p standard here and I think fairly self-explanatory

It was more that different scum got a different shade which is more what I was curious about rather than re: what do the colors mean?

Oh I was trying to give speed a slightly lighter orange bc my scumread of him is not quite as strong as drago but I'm on mobile so it's kinda hard to get the colors quite right

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 8:11 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 8:08 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 8:00 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 7:45 pm Idk what you're asking about the colors, those are p standard here and I think fairly self-explanatory

It was more that different scum got a different shade which is more what I was curious about rather than re: what do the colors mean?

Oh I was trying to give speed a slightly lighter orange bc my scumread of him is not quite as strong as drago but I'm on mobile so it's kinda hard to get the colors quite right

Ah gotcha that makes sense.

Thought: you said earlier they might be teamed? If i got that right then why is Speed less than Dragomir

Bc I haven't given enough attention to speed on his own, I need to iso him next, it was just based on a couple things I saw. Plus I often incorrectly scumread speed as he is sure to point out as soon as he gets here

I'm v confused by owner, why track nova wasn't he a pretty popular townread or did you suspect him and I missed it?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 8:23 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 8:13 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 8:10 pm

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 7:34 pm Nova targeted RDW last night.

---I'm kind of pissed; you guys lynched the Night 3 town doctor.

Are you trying to imply that Gemma being town is something we should have known? Because it seems like you're trying to say that we shouldn't have done that.

You came in today with a “HA I WAS RIGHT” type of response to Gemma’s flip. You did know she was town. You argued against her lynch last day phase.

Why are you, specifically, taking issue with this

But I didn't know she was town. I just thought she might be a mislynch that's all. It wasn't a town read but a hunch I got that made me doubt her lynch.

I have an issue with this because if she's trying to get mad at the fact that we lynched a townie even though the only way one could deduce she was town was based on reads and all reads differ, then that implies TMI imo. It's like she was trying to say that town made a stupid decision in lynching Gemma and shouldn't have done it get me?

I was just trying to gloat, don't see me getting mad.

... I don't follow. How were you not implying that town made a stupid decision and shouldn't have done it?

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:34 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:32 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:29 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:28 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:21 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:16 pm Just did. Took a look at your post on our interactions. The suspicion is meh. Never expanded on his reasons and his first reason sucks.

Well the first reason sucks now, at least. It's pretty clear that you don't give a crap what people think about your posts anymore. No hesitance, not even when considering gloating.

Is that a bad thing?

Hesitance is bad.

Gloating shows that you have a feeling of victory even in a town lynch, which is not great. But if you always do it, it's just odd instead of scummy.

I know hesitance is bad. I don't do I was more talking about the not giving a crap part.

Hesitance and not giving a crap are opposites. Not giving a crap is usually good.

*SCREAMS*



AAAAAAAAAA NO! Hesitance is NOT BAD!! Townies SHOULD be hesitant! Why does everyone have it in their head that hesitance/hedging/wishy-washiness is suspicious? Like of course it varies player to player but this is absolutely a hill I would die on. Townies SHOULD be unsure and question their opinions. Also, not giving a crap is often bad.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:15 pm As someone who still hasn't read the whole game and doesn't intend to:

Dragomir - I see why people think he's scum, but it's like he's rolling in it. Could be some culture difference there. Still a moderate suspicion regardless.
Dragon D Luffy - scumread him early game for taking my bait, have cooled off since. Slightly lower than null
JaggedJimmyJay - haven't seen the scum ping yet, and Jay's been putting in work.
Luxurious - talks too much to be scum.
Macdougall - I have seen nothing to make me think Mac is town
nutella - seems like town nutella to me so far
Owner of a Lonely Heart - had a town ping, need to investigate it


M Plus 7 - ???
rundontwalk2 - I think I've seen people say he's posted some but [citation needed]
JessieKruger - ???

My highest suspicions without looking back are Drago, then Mac, then DDL. But that's all subject to change today, as the weekend is over and my other game is gone (and lost horribly).

....every single part of this post pings me to hell and back


speed iso stuff coming up soon but wow this is bad

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:37 pm @nutella How tf did DDL top your townlist?

I thought he was the most genuine sounding player, next to nova, before I subbed in. Looks to me like he is actively trying to hunt and I believe I even mindmelded with him on a couple things, don't remember what though

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:42 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 3:57 pm No.


Anyway I've been pretty sure this whole time that Gemma is bad. I don't have all the details assembled but it's a strong tonal read. Also, I have as usual a healthy tinfoil on Jay and I thought they were compatible esp with that night action claim, but I'm second guessing that since Jay is going hard after her now all of a sudden and he doesn't bus like that ever. Will compile thoughts on other players later but for now [VOTE: gemma] aubergine

This is the only bad nutella post that I've seen. I get that she has thoughts coming into the game, but specifically mentioning "This whole time" makes it sound like she's trying to convince us that she thought this before receiving that alignment PM.
Combined with the fact that all she gave was a toneread without any assembled details... it's a very detached read by design.

I could see town nutella making the same post, technically. It just felt engineered to be a little off.
I'll hold you to this Jay tinfoil, nutella, I want to hear about it now that Gemma flipped.

I meant what I said lol. I suspected Gemma before subbing in and she was looking shadier and shadier on the day I joined. I didn't "assemble details" bc I was at work and bc it was a tone thing that I got from almost all of her posts anyway. I like that you decided to go and find something from me you could say was suspicious though.

Part of the Jay thing was tied to Gemma, yeah, so that's dwindled a bit, but it's still possible he's bad and got her into his pocket early on. He's putting in a lot of effort today though, which I think he could fake but it feels legitimate so far.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:38 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:34 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:34 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:32 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:29 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:28 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:21 pm

Well the first reason sucks now, at least. It's pretty clear that you don't give a crap what people think about your posts anymore. No hesitance, not even when considering gloating.

Is that a bad thing?

Hesitance is bad.

Gloating shows that you have a feeling of victory even in a town lynch, which is not great. But if you always do it, it's just odd instead of scummy.

I know hesitance is bad. I don't do I was more talking about the not giving a crap part.

Hesitance and not giving a crap are opposites. Not giving a crap is usually good.

*SCREAMS*



AAAAAAAAAA NO! Hesitance is NOT BAD!! Townies SHOULD be hesitant! Why does everyone have it in their head that hesitance/hedging/wishy-washiness is suspicious? Like of course it varies player to player but this is absolutely a hill I would die on. Townies SHOULD be unsure and question their opinions. Also, not giving a crap is often bad.

We literally lynched Ultra for this.

For what?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:50 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:41 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:37 pm @nutella How tf did DDL top your townlist?

I thought he was the most genuine sounding player, next to nova, before I subbed in. Looks to me like he is actively trying to hunt and I believe I even mindmelded with him on a couple things, don't remember what though

Hard disagree with this read. First of all, DDL ain't actively trying to hunt shit. Second of all, I've done more hunting than he has and you ain't town reading me. I'll elaborate more if you want in the morning when I wake up.

For what it's worth DDL and I have somewhat similar approaches to the game so I probably have a different reaction to his play so far than you (idk if you've played with him before?) and imo he looks good here. I don't care if you think you're hunting more, it looks fake whereas his reads look organic.

Oh, okay, sure. Like I said it varies player to player, I'm not saying scum are never hesitant. I'm just saying you should absolutely not categorically call it a scummy thing because I believe townies are/should be even more hesitant.

Drago iso stuff:

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:51 pm If y'all actually sussing Nova after what he did yesterday, y'all gotta go.

This, as well as shaming Gemma for protecting Jay over Nova, all seem like more TMI to me. Granted, I probably would have been townreading Nova pretty strongly at that point in the game as well, but he's making such a big deal of it all and that sets me off in retrospect.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:51 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:37 pm

Ultra wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:47 pm This reeks of chainsaw defense.

You know, isn't Ultra technically chainsaw defending DDL here when he attacks JJJ here? Especially even more as Ultra went to make his stance and vote on JJJ. I mean, he's technically defending DDL by attacking JJJ's vote on DDL calling it out as a chainsaw defense. This makes me sus of DDL even more.

@novaselinenever I understand your case against JJJ but I press x to doubt that he's buddies with Ultra. The latter made his case and vote against JJJ and it's not like Ultra was in any danger of being lynched at that time for a distance attempt to make sense here, so what Ultra's fake case on JJJ is not coming off as a bus or distance imo. Also, I'm strong scum reading Owner and she also made her wishy washy case against JJJ, who again Ultra used for his fake case, so I definitely see more of a pairing between two buddies going against one townie there.

Y'all better not be ignoring this post of mine either. There's some good shit in here.

Apparently gloating is a thing he does, lol. But this is sketchy. Like "look everyone I made an original contribution please tell me how insightful my posts are!" is not a great look.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 9:42 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 9:05 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 8:26 pm First of all, you protected JJJ over Nova? Second of all, how do you know the heal was successful? Could be more reasons for why nobody died last night aside from you protecting your target.

I still sus Owner and DDL pretty heavily. RDW is someone I'm taking interest in as well. I'm finna go back and read Ultra's interactions.

This whole post bugs me, particularly the highlighted bit. Did you try to kill me instead of nova to avoid this result?

The hell is this question?

lol

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 7:47 am So what do you guys think about DDL and Owner? From the last pages that I read, nobody's really been focusing on them, only Mac. So yeah, I want discussion around those two.

More of this, trying to look like he's steering discussion, and an attempt to pivot away from mac -- tmi or teammate?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 10:34 am

Luxurious wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 10:32 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 10:29 am

Luxurious wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 10:17 am

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 1:34 am

Luxurious wrote: ↑Sat May 04, 2019 7:12 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 4:47 pm I'm at work right now and won't be able to come through with my thoughts on the recent pages for until a few hours. Just one thing though, this wagon on me is bad and reeks of an attempt to save Soneji. RDW looks even more bad in my eyes.

How do you feel now thar Soneji flipped town

I am confused. My impression was that I was a counter wagon to save Soneji but seeing how both leading wagons are town, it makes me think that there were more town in my wagon than on Soneji's wagon as it doesn't make sense for scum to get another wagon going when they can just hop on the leading wagon which was a mislynch.

How does it affect your RDW read? Why are you scum reading him anyway

He hasn't done anything contributive and productive this entire game and then sheep on my wagon with literal piss poor reasoning. Nothing about that is coming from a Town POV.

Can you go through the GTH reads and assign each person good/ bad?

The only two reads I remember are RDW and DDL. I also havent seen you post any townreads?

Tyia

Not really interested in doing that.

I don't really like posting my townreads.

Really don't like this, especially considering that he has named at least a couple townreads at this point, at least indirectly of nova and speed.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 11:23 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 11:15 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 11:13 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 11:11 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Sun May 05, 2019 10:25 pm Hey Drago does that mean you think Nova is trying to pocket you by being the only person to townread you

No.

Who else do you think might be civ that isn't me?

Me, JJJ, Genma, Owner and Lux. The last 3 are only based on their role claims.

Oh yeah, Mac and Speed are ok in my book.

Oh man, suddenly naming more townreads! lol

I could quote more posts but in general his ISO reads like he's tunneling DDL but whenever another easy target comes up he's all "oh yeah I'd totally lynch there" -- happens in regards to low posters like jessie and rdw, and also the way he suspects owner, backs off when she claims because of his mistaken "assumption" about the roles (easily faked "dumbtell" which I already brought up) and then eagerly goes right back to suspecting her:

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 5:33 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 5:27 pm @Dragomir - All roles and alignments are randomized. Any role can be any alignment. For some of them there are modifiers if the role rolls mafia. The end. What does this mean to you?

Well then. That changes a lot and BACK does Owner go into my scum reads. I can also see Genma being scum now, same for Lux.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 6:53 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 6:44 pm Preferred alternative, Dragomir?

Jessie, DDL, Owner, RDW.

Nova called this salad. Drago probably doesn't know what that means. At least one of his teammates probably does. Nova died.
(don't @ me for NKA lol I just think it's funny, and the salad accusation in itself is a fair one.)


Then there's the stuff just from today. Going after Owner for criticizing the Gemma lynch ex post facto when he did much the same thing both pre- and post facto. Yeaaah, hypocrisy yada yada, civilians have double standards sometimes, I know, but I still really don't like it -- he's too eager to jump on owner. I grant her post was weird but drago made it into a whole thing that doesn't look natural coming from him.

k this is what i've got for now, will gather speed stuff next but probably eating first

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 12:03 am

Luxurious wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 11:54 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:34 pm

Spoiler: show

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:34 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:32 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:29 pm

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:28 pm
Is that a bad thing?

Hesitance is bad.

Gloating shows that you have a feeling of victory even in a town lynch, which is not great. But if you always do it, it's just odd instead of scummy.

I know hesitance is bad. I don't do I was more talking about the not giving a crap part.

Hesitance and not giving a crap are opposites. Not giving a crap is usually good.

*SCREAMS*



AAAAAAAAAA NO! Hesitance is NOT BAD!! Townies SHOULD be hesitant! Why does everyone have it in their head that hesitance/hedging/wishy-washiness is suspicious? Like of course it varies player to player but this is absolutely a hill I would die on. Townies SHOULD be unsure and question their opinions. Also, not giving a crap is often bad.

Hmmmmmmm

I know i just scrolled past this convo trying to find the last post i was on so I’m gonna read what’s been said and then come back with any questions I’m still left with.

Fwiw though I think being hedgy is scummy. Reconsidering opinions is different than what I think you’re implying here

Oh, I skimmed the post. lol.

@nutella I think we are talking about two different things. People being hesitant to post or state opinions is bad. Second-guessing those opinions or waffling is NOT bad (Or, at least, NAI).

Ultra was lynched for being hesitant to interact with the thread. Being scared to post openly is bad.

oh lol, completely misinterpreted that exchange then. sorry for overreacting, the thing I thought you were talking about is a sore spot for me

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 12:02 am

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 10:51 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:42 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 3:57 pm No.


Anyway I've been pretty sure this whole time that Gemma is bad. I don't have all the details assembled but it's a strong tonal read. Also, I have as usual a healthy tinfoil on Jay and I thought they were compatible esp with that night action claim, but I'm second guessing that since Jay is going hard after her now all of a sudden and he doesn't bus like that ever. Will compile thoughts on other players later but for now [VOTE: gemma] aubergine

This is the only bad nutella post that I've seen. I get that she has thoughts coming into the game, but specifically mentioning "This whole time" makes it sound like she's trying to convince us that she thought this before receiving that alignment PM.
Combined with the fact that all she gave was a toneread without any assembled details... it's a very detached read by design.

I could see town nutella making the same post, technically. It just felt engineered to be a little off.
I'll hold you to this Jay tinfoil, nutella, I want to hear about it now that Gemma flipped.

I meant what I said lol. I suspected Gemma before subbing in and she was looking shadier and shadier on the day I joined. I didn't "assemble details" bc I was at work and bc it was a tone thing that I got from almost all of her posts anyway. I like that you decided to go and find something from me you could say was suspicious though.

Part of the Jay thing was tied to Gemma, yeah, so that's dwindled a bit, but it's still possible he's bad and got her into his pocket early on. He's putting in a lot of effort today though, which I think he could fake but it feels legitimate so far.

Hey how did she look shadier and shadier as the day went on? Like what did she do that gave you that vibe?

Legitimately curious.

like I said it was the tone of most of her posts, and some unexpected progressions I guess, like the Epi thing that Jay pointed out, and then her wanting to be replaced all of a sudden when it seemed like she had been engaged with the game previously. Looking at her iso now she didn't actually post as much on the day I subbed in as I thought I remembered, so I think I'm remembering the stuff that Jay and others were quoting that looked bad.

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 12:20 am Nutella that iso is like

Blinding me i read the whole thing but my brain shut off half way through

It’s mostly because it looks like you’re trying to lynch him rather than interact with him at all and convince us that he should be lynched.

A bunch of your stuff I dont agree with anyway since i was interacting with him at the time, but the only thing I really want answered is

What the fuck does salad mean

"Player salad" is a term invented on this site afaik for when someone lists off a handful of players that they would be "ok with lynching" or something similarly hedgey/noncommittal, widely regarded as a scum tell bc they are leaving their options open

Gonna finish my speed iso then will look at what else you have to say about my drago thoughts. You may be right that I'm not directly engaging him enough, I guess I didn't ask him anything because all I see is scum motive in his posts, when I heavily suspect someone I tend to make more "callout" style accusations rather than interrogation bc I want people to see what I see and I get frustrated when they don't

ok here are some scattered thoughts on speed

so first of all I forgot to include in my drago post the whole thing about speed's "no lynch" gambit/trap and DDL's response to it, since drago did mention that and it caught my eye on first glance particularly as an odd mention of speed from drago, like it was somehow contrived to bolster his DDL suspicion. It would be going pretty far to postulate that the whole thing was a setup planned in scum chat or something, it just felt weird how drago took advantage of the whole thing to put speed in a good light and ddl in a bad one.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:24 am

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:18 pm Basically I voted you reflexively and now I'm trying to save face.

To add to Jack's above thoughts, DDL could have just voted as a disapproval and then moved on. A vote can be just as throwaway as the original line. But he's panicking, doubling down then retreating, trying to sound justified, etc.

I don't feel like I'm the authority on this, as I'm the one who baited the trap and might be biased, and DDL was the first to respond, but he definitely looks worst at first glance.

I may need to do some research on how often speed sets early traps like this as town. It's not something I associate with him but my memory could be failing me. If he's scum it would be an easy way to set up an early mislynch target.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:44 am

Luxurious wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:24 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:16 pm Alright I'm probably being too harsh. But explain to me why No Lynch is a good idea.

Either own the vote or dont vote bro

Luxurious wrote: ↑Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:26 pm I liked the vote but the comment afterwards just left a sour taste in my mouth

I want to town read this because I agree with it really hard.

Don't really see an issue with the rest of the content in this ISO. Lots of off-topic stuff but that's cool.

♫ put it in my pocket put it in my pocket in my back pocket ♫

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:07 pm

Gemma wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:03 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:00 pm [VOTE: Ultra] aubergine

did you forget that you were townreading that player

No. Because I'm not.

I have some town pings from them, but I mentioned something scummy as well. If it continues, their need to cling to and buddy Nova will easily outweigh any town cred they have.

ok this is hilariously bad. I think Gemma totally hard-read Speed here.


there are various jokey posts in speed's iso that set me off slightly, maybe I'm too detached from the mood of the thread early on but his humor feels unnatural and not quite what I'd expect from him

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:29 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:24 pm Do you have any scum reads outside of, like, DDL

Haven't read the whole game, probably not going to. Finger of suspicion right now is on:

Gemma
Owner
Ultra
Dragomir
DDL

This post comes after two posts of hedging about Gemma, like it sounded like he was going to land on a townlean for her but then he places her in this list. I'm getting hints of romaine.


He comes out strong against Jack pretty suddenly, I'll have to look into what happened with Jack because I don't think speed had even mentioned him before and suddenly was catching up and said "Well anyway Jack is bad." I'm also interested to see when this happened relative to the Ultra wagon bc speed moved off of ultra and perhaps jack did something conveniently suspicious at a convenient time? Sorry I'm lacking in context here and just conf-biasing it, lmk if I'm way off


He doesn't post much day 2, he comments on the role claims a bit, sticks a vote on soneji and that's it

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 5:52 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 5:42 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 5:39 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 5:08 pm speedchuck, tell me about your vote.

I've suspected Gemma since late D1. Their playstyle was alien to me, so I didn't depend on that, but around the end of that day I considered Gemma to be a potential Ultra ally. I can't say I remember why.

I probably would have pursued this more D2 had I not been sick.

I love hypotheticals

So why did you move to Jack then in your hindsight bias

I thought I saw something there. I began pursuing it.
Ended up being a nothingburger.

If not for my hypothetical statement, these are two completely separate suspicions, yeah? Not sure how it relates.

I don't know what this is. Speed what was it you thought you saw with jack and why did you completely forget about him for all of day 2? Again I know I'm lacking context here (I did skim the game before I was in it but I missed a lot of details apparently)

Then today there's this post which I already called out for pinging me six ways to sunday

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 9:15 pm As someone who still hasn't read the whole game and doesn't intend to:

Dragomir - I see why people think he's scum, but it's like he's rolling in it. Could be some culture difference there. Still a moderate suspicion regardless.
Dragon D Luffy - scumread him early game for taking my bait, have cooled off since. Slightly lower than null
JaggedJimmyJay - haven't seen the scum ping yet, and Jay's been putting in work.
Luxurious - talks too much to be scum.
Macdougall - I have seen nothing to make me think Mac is town
nutella - seems like town nutella to me so far
Owner of a Lonely Heart - had a town ping, need to investigate it


M Plus 7 - ???
rundontwalk2 - I think I've seen people say he's posted some but [citation needed]
JessieKruger - ???

My highest suspicions without looking back are Drago, then Mac, then DDL. But that's all subject to change today, as the weekend is over and my other game is gone (and lost horribly).

Like... all of his scumreads are extremely weak. There's no heart in it. He tosses up a player list with some mostly hedgey statements, and the three names he calls his "highest suspicions" at the end barely sound like that at all. I don't believe he believes any of this.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 1:16 am I am the night 3 alignment cop and I got a green peek on someone. I have already surmised several strong civilian reads from how they have engaged this person so I have zero intention to reveal it until either they or I are under threat. One thing I will say is that I still want Dragomir dead.

hm, okay then

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 12:51 am

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 11:33 pm Drago iso stuff:

I dont think this is an iso really but more of a case against him lol.

I use the term iso when I create a post from going through someone's iso, but I just pick and choose the things I care to react to

This, as well as shaming Gemma for protecting Jay over Nova, all seem like more TMI to me. Granted, I probably would have been townreading Nova pretty strongly at that point in the game as well, but he's making such a big deal of it all and that sets me off in retrospect.

How is this TMI? Does this affect your read on Jay?

TMI in that nova was his strongest townread/he said nova should have been protected. Not sure what you mean about Jay, the fact that Gemma apparently townread him is irrelevant here. ..Oh, unless you're saying Drago and Jay could be w/w?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 7:47 am So what do you guys think about DDL and Owner? From the last pages that I read, nobody's really been focusing on them, only Mac. So yeah, I want discussion around those two.

More of this, trying to look like he's steering discussion, and an attempt to pivot away from mac -- tmi or teammate?

How is it an attempt to pivot away from Mac? It really just looks like he wants opinions around his scumreads.

Based on your reads you would assume this is tmi so like, why ask this lol.

How is it not? He's expressing annoyance that people are only talking about Mac and not these other people, and says hey please talk about these other people. And yeah, I townread mac, but there'd be more actual motive in pivoting away from him if they were teammates so I'm putting forth both possibilities.

You’ve quoted the nova post he made regarding townreads, but idr a speed post. Is there something that you saw that connected that for you? I’m gonna look for it myself after this just in case I can find it.

it was more indirect, there was at least agreeing with him on DDL re: the no lynch bait, and maybe something else

I know the point of the ISO is isolation and to remove things from context but like

You had to skip the whole discussion where Nova called bullshit on his pocketing post.

It took a lot to just get this list from him.

So this kinda looks like you intentionally removed the posts around it to make it look as if he went from having no townreads to having a lot of townreads which is like

Wayyyyy bad. Especially since he was so hesitant to give any in the first place

Anyway my point to this is: did you skip past the parts where we had to harass him for any kinda reads at all?

Well I was only looking at his posts so I only saw his responses to that progression, and you're right that there was a progression/he needed to be prodded to answer the question, but once he answered he really answered lol. He gave five names and then two more without being further prompted I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong there bc that is the main issue I see) even though earlier he was like "no I really don't like to name townreads" -- suddenly when he's being criticized and poked and prodded at for it he's all too eager to fix it.

I could quote more posts but in general his ISO reads like he's tunneling DDL but whenever another easy target comes up he's all "oh yeah I'd totally lynch there" -- happens in regards to low posters like jessie and rdw, and also the way he suspects owner, backs off when she claims because of his mistaken "assumption" about the roles (easily faked "dumbtell" which I already brought up) and then eagerly goes right back to suspecting her:

I dont think it’s a faked dumbtell considering he dragged it out for a few days

Otherwise this is like, fine. Not good, but fine.

okay, sure. it doesn't have to be fake for him to be mafia though, maybe the mafia all have roles that seem like common roles for mafia to have and he still didn't realize how the setup worked

Nova called this salad. Drago probably doesn't know what that means. At least one of his teammates probably does. Nova died.
(don't @ me for NKA lol I just think it's funny, and the salad accusation in itself is a fair one.)

B( i still dont know what it means.

You already assume he’s scum here so lol iso.

have explained it now. And I know I am guilty of confbiasing when I do isos bc again I cherrypick stuff that sticks out to me. this in particular was sort of a joke though, I don't think nova was suspecting drago otherwise and his salad accusation seemed like probably joking in the first place

Then there's the stuff just from today. Going after Owner for criticizing the Gemma lynch ex post facto when he did much the same thing both pre- and post facto. Yeaaah, hypocrisy yada yada, civilians have double standards sometimes, I know, but I still really don't like it -- he's too eager to jump on owner. I grant her post was weird but drago made it into a whole thing that doesn't look natural coming from him.

k this is what i've got for now, will gather speed stuff next but probably eating first

Why does it not look natural coming from him? What about it made you feel that way?

Also re: critiquing Gemma lynch, Mac also criticized it and didnt vote there. He then voted for Dragomir claiming TMI. How does that affect your Mac read?

as in it didn't feel natural how much he pounced on owner for this one thing that was similar to something he did himself, looked like he was trying to push suspicion on her from whatever source he could get

re: mac, I think I see what you're getting at but I think mac legitimately preemptively suspected drago of TMI, which I actually did as well so I don't blame him. anyway you posted this earlier but I'm seeing this after mac's claim and I like how he framed it enough to trust him for now.

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

Feeling more strongly about him at the moment, but if nobody agrees I'm still happy to lynch Drago

Ah, guess I did have some of the timing wrong on your jack stuff speed, sorry lol. That does change my perspective on some things yeah. That last post still pings me real hard though no matter how you defend it.

[mention]Luxurious[/mention] I thought the tournament setup established the action resolution order but now I can't find it. I'm p sure a roleblock would prevent your jailkeep though. Also, why did you choose Mac?

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 12:30 pm I meant ddl not speed i was remembering it wrong

Damn, thought I was on to something. Seriously though realizing I was wrong about speed's role in the ultra lynch is making me reconsider how bad he actually looks. He might hard bus a completely inactive teammate, but ultra was not absent so it would be a bold move and speed doesn't feel particularly bold this game lol.

He's made a big deal of ddl being clearly his preferred lynch, but whenever there's been an opportunity to put pressure on owner he's jumped onto her and says he'd be okay with lynching her, and same to rdw and jess. He's clearly focused on ddl, but he's also clearly keeping his options open.

[VOTE: dragomir] aubergine

Can you clarify that last bit? With a rdw red flip specifically or what, and why?

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 3:45 pm Like there isnt really a PUSH there you feel me. There’s a vote with some suspicion and then a couple questioning prods afterwards.

You voted Ultra for hiding behind Nova yeah? That’s most of your reasoning?

Im gonna go through Ultra’s posts to see if he responded to your JJJ questions that you might’ve missed since i didnt see a response in your ISO

Yeah this isn't impressive tbh. I tend to agree with ddl here, could easily be a bus.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 3:49 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 3:45 pm Like there isnt really a PUSH there you feel me. There’s a vote with some suspicion and then a couple questioning prods afterwards.

You voted Ultra for hiding behind Nova yeah? That’s most of your reasoning?

Im gonna go through Ultra’s posts to see if he responded to your JJJ questions that you might’ve missed since i didnt see a response in your ISO

Yeah, I didn't campaign for it. I just voted and stated my reasons. That was all of them.

It's not super strong, I guess. But it can't be a bus, either, because I didn't push it. :P Just me pointing out some bad stuff, voting, and then vanishing.

what

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 3:56 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 3:47 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 3:37 pm Regarding that: you stated earlier that nutella’s case could be a tunnel or she could be fighting for a mislynch, which are you more inclined to believe

Nutella suspects me every game and is aware of it. This case on me looks about how I would expect it to look either way.

But the case has a lot of strictly false information in it. Claiming that I swapped to Jack D1 being the chief thing. Nutella's false info that she probably grabbed from my ISO without looking too hard at when it was posted tells me that she was eager to scumread me. She was in the tunnel.

I slightly lean toward her being in the tunnel on me before she ever got her role PM. She would probably make the case on me either way, in that instance, but as scum I think she might be more careful about it.

. . .

Yeah, town lean I think.

So her boldness and appearance to post false information in an attempt to scumread you makes you think she’s town?

I... got that right?

Lol, I could argue he's TMIing me there. But I do have some pretty unusual towntells tbh. I think what he's getting at is I tend to blurt out my thoughts without always thinking them through and in this case not doing my research.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 3:58 pm

Luxurious wrote: ↑Wed May 08, 2019 3:56 pm So her boldness and appearance to post false information in an attempt to scumread you makes you think she’s town?

I... got that right?

I think she would be more careful as scum. I think she went it thinking I was town because of tone and blendiness and got into a tunnel where everything I did looked bad. Then she made some mistakes in her 'got em' state of mind.

As scum, most people are a little more calculating.

Right basically this. I pulled the quotes that fit my scum image of you.