The Syndicate

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:22 pm PoE just feels like Quin, Epi, Kate right?

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:36 pm I don't TR the highest posters because they post a lot, btw

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:56 pm A lot of silliness is resolved if voting for oneself is just against the rules.

I always forget to add that when I host. Next time.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:51 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:22 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:56 pm

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 1:42 pm @☆Princess Abigail☆ would you be able to put together a full list of reads? Rainbow or tiers or something like that would be super. Explanations only if you feel like it.

I mean my list is just what I've posted

Your town or your not in my eyes

You and falcon are town and I'm like at least gonna fake confidence until exelo on both those reads.

I literally have not found anyone else this game. Wiml is probably the closest thing I have to another town lock at this point in catch up his posts are inquisitive and insightful in a way that's towny in mindset in my opinion. Their questions seem to come from a place of genuine solving and not from a place of pushing a scum agenda.

Now I do need to disclose that my dyslexia is particularly awful this game so I'm struggling to read and retain a lot of Wimls posts because they are often wordy but what I do manage to understand feels pure as snow to me...

Actually writing this post has made me pretty confident

TOWN CORE

JJJ
Wiml
Falc
+3

Falcon is like exclusively just based off the fact that there's a large consensus on him being town I am in agreement though less hoorah on it but others confidence is just kinda influencing my choice since it gels with my general read direction on falc

Adding Wilgy to this

JJJ
Wiml
Falc
Wilgy
+2

Game so ez let's go

I figured you'd not give me a tr so definitively and quickly following Sesame Seed?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:44 pm

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:40 pm I'm too lazy to explain why

Remember your training.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:34 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:33 pm

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:44 am VC

Spoiler: show

Squash your first bug!
Poll runs till Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:00 am
Please note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.

You may select 1 option


☆Princess Abigail☆
3
25%
Voters: Epignosis, Michelle, Kate
Epignosis
2
17%
Voters: falcon45ca, ☆Princess Abigail☆
falcon45ca
1
8%
Voters: Lime Coke
Lime Coke
3
25%
Voters: Wiml, JaggedJimmyJay, DrWilgy

Do these rules apply here as well?

Kate wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:59 pm Let me guess, without reading, princess Abigail has used ATE to get yall to move off her?

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 12:39 pm I came across that reading your ISO Neon, but perhaps for the sake of brevity, could you talk to me about your read on Kate?

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:27 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:48 am

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:00 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:17 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:22 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:19 pm Is cheesecake a pie or cake?

Worse than both

Scum just for this post

Cheesecake, Pie, Cake, Soup. Long ago, the four nations lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the Pie Nation attacked. Only the Abigail, master of all four elements, could stop them, but when the world needed them most, they vanished.

I'm here to kill cake and soup

The others can stay

you are dead to me now

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:04 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:14 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:53 am I think everyone that hasn't already should share their new impressions of Quin.

I liked their early approach to me think their reason for abandoning the read was valid even if wrong from their pov.

They can go in the town core

JJJ
Wilgy
Wiml
Falcon
Quin
+1

Roxy is a lean town.

holy shit this is a first for us. Thank you for this. <3

Roxy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:29 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 1:05 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:28 pm @☆Princess Abigail☆

Would you agree that, even if the "first three-vote wagon contains one mafioso in four names" theory is consistently accurate, that you fundamentally break it by causing the wagon to reach three votes yourself?

Yes though I've done it before. It generates content. Readable content and while I've not tracked the success of forcing the read and can't remember if it worked or not I do think there's validity in that it forced his readable content out of Michelle You Roxy...

How was readable content forced out of me. Genuinely curious.

Bc I thought I was posting when I could. At work before meeting and before I turned into a YaYa. But if content was being forced from me I would like for you to explain gently to me how it happened.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:12 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:06 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:37 am Jay, I think the way she is self content for posting town reads and tries to present herself as solvy is not towny

It was implied when i said mafia prefer to post town reads to not argue with the townies they are pushing that she is mafia for doing that.

If you noticed she didn't say I am a wolf for suspecting her, she said I played wolfy or something.

Again I can prove that this is how I play the game AS TOWN if you would like

Look, the way you tell me I saw you playing has the reverse. You saw me playing as well. You saw me being right and also wrong.
You know my play is unusual and my suspicions are often poor explained (coming from weak english skills), but also I always push what I consider wolfy behaviour. You can't just say I have bad faith in my push when I talk about it since so long.

I asked you questions. I waited for answers but I didn't receive things who could show me you have genuine thoughts regarding your suspicion on me. The fact you don't make scum cases in general has little importance for me.

You want me to believe you because you say so.
Sorry, I can't.
Yes, my vote is on you regardless the fact you posted because you don't gave me a reason to change my mind and I explained why.

We seem to talk past each other but I am sure I answered at your posts while you mostly AtEd and provided self meta.

If you are town, you have to show it in other way than self voting when the wagons are tied.

Self voting is bad regardless alignament.

The first condition for town is to find scum, not to suicide to prove wrong some people.
The second is to show themselves towny in thoughts and behaviour.
If a townie fails in these both aspects that doesn't mean their life is meaningless and they should die.
A game is won by town by teamwork more than by individual performance. And another force of town is in numbers. Keep town number respecting your own TMI on your alignment even if no one believes you and self press because you never know for sure the alignment of your cw.

If you are town, make me see it.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:00 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:17 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:22 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:19 pm Is cheesecake a pie or cake?

Worse than both

Scum just for this post

Cheesecake, Pie, Cake, Soup. Long ago, the four nations lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the Pie Nation attacked. Only the Abigail, master of all four elements, could stop them, but when the world needed them most, they vanished.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:44 am Abigail has earned a Day 2 and I Do Not See It for LC.

[VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I'll try put it into words if I have time. It's just a suspicion that is There.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:09 am I think you're doing a good job working on stuff here if you're town Abi!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:09 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:07 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:41 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:37 am Jay, I think the way she is self content for posting town reads and tries to present herself as solvy is not towny

It was implied when i said mafia prefer to post town reads to not argue with the townies they are pushing that she is mafia for doing that.

If you noticed she didn't say I am a wolf for suspecting her, she said I played wolfy or something.

You could be right. As of right this moment I would still place Abigail in my POE pool merely as a product of thread momentum.

Fair and valid

Hey @JaggedJimmyJay can you take away my mod powers from hosting pls

I will ask someone not playing to take care of it, but good eye.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:08 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:04 am I truly appreciate you and all the effort you've put into helping me grow as a player and understand the mistakes I'm making

I'm happy to be of service. And remember that there is no shame in mistakes or in needing to grow.

I screw the pooch all the time in Mafia games. I have much room to grow.

This is just your journey to discover your true power. And it'll be fun to see it when you do.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:08 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:00 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:18 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:16 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:13 am Jay how you consider the fact Abigail voted Brad only after I said they're w/w wagons in a world where Brad flips mafia?
Of course if he flips town the question is pointless.

I don't think it means much either way. At this point in time they are counterwagons, and either version of Abigail is justified to vote for the counterwagon. I don't view the timing (with respect to your theory in particular) as especially important. I wouldn't clear her for it, and I wouldn't throw her in jail for it either.

Thanks for the answer, anyway if Brad comes back I think he will self press as well and the wagons will be tied again.

I will never let a vote rand and yes that means I will commit die on myself too prevent a tie

I think, as established in the bad first dates game, this is definitely not pro-town to stick by. I'd greatly appreciate if you didn't do this.

It's also something that I would absolutely weaponise against you if I were wolfing against you tbh.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:02 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:00 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:18 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:16 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:13 am Jay how you consider the fact Abigail voted Brad only after I said they're w/w wagons in a world where Brad flips mafia?
Of course if he flips town the question is pointless.

I don't think it means much either way. At this point in time they are counterwagons, and either version of Abigail is justified to vote for the counterwagon. I don't view the timing (with respect to your theory in particular) as especially important. I wouldn't clear her for it, and I wouldn't throw her in jail for it either.

Thanks for the answer, anyway if Brad comes back I think he will self press as well and the wagons will be tied again.

I will never let a vote rand and yes that means I will commit die on myself too prevent a tie

Please do not do that. It is not pro-town.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:53 am I think everyone that hasn't already should share their new impressions of Quin.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:52 am @☆Princess Abigail☆ how do you feel about Lime Coke, your vote aside?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:42 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:37 am Thank you... this is so harddddd I'll try.

Here are two starting points for you to take that next step:

1.) Please describe for me, as you see it, why Michelle suspects you if Michelle is town. Just make that assumption for the moment for the sake of this exercise.

2.) Clarify for me how you read Michelle regardless of how you answer #1.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:41 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:37 am Jay, I think the way she is self content for posting town reads and tries to present herself as solvy is not towny

It was implied when i said mafia prefer to post town reads to not argue with the townies they are pushing that she is mafia for doing that.

If you noticed she didn't say I am a wolf for suspecting her, she said I played wolfy or something.

You could be right. As of right this moment I would still place Abigail in my POE pool merely as a product of thread momentum.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:37 am Jay, I think the way she is self content for posting town reads and tries to present herself as solvy is not towny

It was implied when i said mafia prefer to post town reads to not argue with the townies they are pushing that she is mafia for doing that.

If you noticed she didn't say I am a wolf for suspecting her, she said I played wolfy or something.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:27 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:16 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:10 am @☆Princess Abigail☆ and @Michelle, I am generally leaving each of you to carry out your conversation. However, I think I might be able to help mediate some miscommunication or holes in the conversation, so say the word if you'd like for me to do that. I may do it on my own if I feel it's necessary, but for now I will just leave that offer on the table.

I would like your honest opinion.

If you think she ever made a clear stance about why is she suspecting me please show me where because I didn't find it.

Lack of wolf reads from her is a problem for me, for a wolf is easy to make town reads but they have a problem in pushing villagers directly because most of villagers are sensitive at such pushes and react back.

Sure, I can do that.

I think both of you have had some failings in this interaction, and that's okay. It's difficult sometimes to carry on a truly healthy conversation in a game that demands we accuse each other of things.

I believe Abigail has stated why she suspects you, if not necessarily in a single clean box. If she is town, she believes that you have returned her suspicion of you back onto her (omgus) without giving a fair effort to understand her or interpret her in good faith. Effectively, she's accusing you of a fake omgus tunnel. I think that she has said this more or less, and it's there for you to find if you really want to find it (which would be where you fall short in this exchange). However, Abigail also falls short, because her assessment doesn't give you any credit. She isn't considering why a town Michelle might genuinely suspect her and trying to connect with you or your suspicion. There's a degree of hypocrisy in that. These things are human nature.

I think there are some issues with your suspicion of her. I don't really find you suspicious for them, but I will share what I mean. You have spoken a lot about what mafia can do in your discussion of Abigail. For example:

- Mafia can mimic their town game/meta.
- Mafia can give town reads, because they have TMI.

Things like this are technically true, but are they actually meaningful (or to what extent are they meaningful)? And do they leave Abigail in an impossible position?

What can't mafia do? Is that a question with an answer? "Can" is a big word. Mafia "can" do just about anything. If your requirement for Abigail is that she do things that mafia can't do, then I would assert you are expecting the impossible. I don't think you'd be doing so in bad faith. This kind of argumentation happens all the time in Mafia games, including from honest points of view. And Abigail needs to understand that too if she is town.

Now, all of this said, I want to ensure my dialogue here is understood as I intend it. None of this means "Abigail is town". It's a manuscript to describe how the communication can break down if she is town. She can still be mafia, and even a flawed case can still be right.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:27 am To elaborate, if Abigail is town and believes Michelle is bad, her phrasing would normally be "you are framing me" or some such.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:18 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:16 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:13 am Jay how you consider the fact Abigail voted Brad only after I said they're w/w wagons in a world where Brad flips mafia?
Of course if he flips town the question is pointless.

I don't think it means much either way. At this point in time they are counterwagons, and either version of Abigail is justified to vote for the counterwagon. I don't view the timing (with respect to your theory in particular) as especially important. I wouldn't clear her for it, and I wouldn't throw her in jail for it either.

Thanks for the answer, anyway if Brad comes back I think he will self press as well and the wagons will be tied again.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 5:06 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:34 am But you simply do not care about me.

You do not care about how I play

You do not care about what I do


You've already decided my alignment.

I don't know what gives you that impression.

You know, any wolf can add town reads to their reads because they have TMI and they know their reads are correct. Put a good progression on it and those townies will be impressed and not vote you.

You voiced suspicion on me and you don't explain it and have no intention to do so from what I understand.

Why do you think I have to accept self meta on you?

You claim I don't want to reconsider my read but you don't give me anything in fact to help me understand if I am wrong.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:45 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:37 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:19 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:14 am ...

I'm gonna get accused of faking this but

I'm fucking booooored

Remember your training, Abigail-san.

I'm tryingggg so harddd and it's not workinggggg

I'm trying to not be a bitch. I'm resisting swearing I'm mostly resisting AtE I think mostly

I'm trying to work with people

It's not workinggggg JJJ I donut know what to doooooo

If you're town, then you're on the right track when it comes to how you present yourself. You are doing better. Your next task is to monitor your own emotion when receiving pressure and/or you don't feel your reads are being respected (I think both lead to similar outcomes). Consider for a moment the connections that exist between your most vocal suspects and the names on your wagon. There could well be mafia among them, but there must mathematically be town too. If you can receive suspicion with calm and listen, even suspicion that you find to be unfair or silly, then you're more likely to get through to your accusers (or the viewing audience if not). You received my own initial suspicion in that way. Remember that town doesn't know your alignment and must try their best in the raw mountainous landscape to get it right. And they might fail in that effort. It's an honest mistake, just as it is when you get one wrong. Or I get one wrong. Or anyone.

Play with grace. Like I said, you're getting closer.

Wiml wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:41 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:56 pmNow I do need to disclose that my dyslexia is particularly awful this game so I'm struggling to read and retain a lot of Wimls posts because they are often wordy but what I do manage to understand feels pure as snow to me...

Anything I can do to make them easier for you to read?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:24 am I think there's a good chance that Abigail has been thrown off-balance by consistent suspicion, and that can happen to town just as easily as mafia. Consider that her mafia reads closely align with the names on her current wagon. It is easy to dismiss this as "omgus" and call it suspicious, but I don't really care about that. What are the positive things about Abigail?

However long it took, she has provided a set of town reads (and not all of them are super easy, like Roxy or DrWilgy), and that set is large enough to close a box around her. She continues to field suspicion, albeit in a frustrated and/or despondent way, while others have gone *poof* under similar pressure. There is a case to be made against her, and it's understandable for folks to view that case as compelling. I believe there are more suspicious people in this thread though.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:19 am Genuinely not trying to be hurtful here. I'm saying it because I think you're town and I want people to listen to you.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:19 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:14 am ...

I'm gonna get accused of faking this but

I'm fucking booooored

Remember your training, Abigail-san.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:17 am @Neon, the reason you think nothing you say matters is because you keep shooting yourself in the foot by propping yourself on a perceived high ground and claiming infalliability. You're doing it right now.

You have good read accuracy, but the way you push them makes me not want to listen.

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:14 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:03 am

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:02 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:01 am Nothing I do matters

What have you done in your opinion and I should notice and change my read?

Well you know genuine solving.

Expression of thoughts.

Being squarely in my town meta and being town.

Doing more than 60% of this game.

You can't express your read on me without generic mafia terms who can be posted in any game for any suspect you want to push.

I don't base a read on your self meta, I already said I know you have genuine tone as wolf and i know you try to mimic your town game.

If you do 60% then Jay is doing 20%, Wiml has probably 8%, Falcon has 3.78%, Kate 2.5%, Epi 2.5%, Wilgy 1.22%, Quin 1%, and I hope I did the rest of 1%?

Now really, isn't that a strech?

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:04 am I am not a fan of making walls but I do them regardless but I hate unspoilered big posts because I have to scroll on phone too much.
Add some gifs and I scroll even more.

If you can spoiler them you receive thanks for being friendly with phone posters

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:02 am

☆Princess Abigail☆ wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 4:01 am Nothing I do matters

What have you done in your opinion and I should notice and change my read?

Michelle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:42 am It feels like we have w/w wagons