The Syndicate

@Epignosis what prompted you to think that Wilgy is more likely to make the kill on sig?

Oh I can't unvote, shit.

Wait, wasn't sig the one who kept saying Wilgy was pretty firmly in his town range? Why would Wilgy make that kill rather than Delta or me? I mean, WIFOM I guess, but it benefits Wilgy way less if he doesn't have a defender anymore.

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine

Actually, now that I'm thinking about this more, even if Davos's owner is Wilgy, he could still comfortably make the nutella kill *if* he knows for sure that Davos would stay in the game if he died.
...Meh, this isn't getting me anywhere.

If Davos is Brad's puppet and Wilgy is town, then the nutella kill would have come from the West for sure (assuming I'm right and a puppet can't carry a factional kill). Then it could realistically be a kill from either team.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:05 pm The thought that the Nutella kill comes from Epi/Leetic is somewhat undermined by the kill coming directly from Davos. Davos could've killed the slot and hoped to coast on the remaining PoE.

Leetics actions, as argued yesterday, continue to be in alignment with Davos, which doesn't necessarily cause the Davos submitting the Nutella kill to be as Nutella kill theory breaking.

I didn't comment on this earlier, but yes, I thought I'd said something similar yesterday when I was pushing for us to acknowledge that Davos was a realistic possibility of a wolf. That Davos OR someone from West would be able to intentionally make the nutella kill to incriminate Wilgy/me. The wrench in that theory now is that Davos flipped as a proxy and not as a wolf on their own, meaning that even if Davos made the nutella kill, it still came from someone else in the game.

And you can yell at me for setup spec but I somehow doubt that a sock puppet would be allowed to be assigned a kill if there's a team member still alive. I have my doubts that Davos would be alive at all if the puppetmaster is dead, too. Plus, the kill could've come from the other wolf team, instead, and imo if it was an Arbiter kill then it definitely came from the West (hence my statement that the Arbiter is likely from the West Facility and the remaining Landlord is Wilgy).

I'm ngl, Wilgy's claim that my worldview is wrong kind of makes me think he actually isn't the landlord and I've caught him for the wrong reasons, and he's really the arbiter instead.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 7:16 pm Idc if I have to thunderdome Wilgy for this. This is what I was calling for at SoD, only he or I can be the puppetmaster to Davos. Davos's role said they were a landlord by proxy, meaning they were attached to a landlord whom I believe is currently in the game. I do not believe they were attached to Brad. I believe Wilgy is trying to worm his way out of being caught *as* Davos's owner.

EBWOP

But also I think it's obvious he's trying to make up a case on me when he knows he can't push me as Davos's puppetmaster. He's cornered, and he can really only push me today.

Idc if I have to thunderdome Wilgy for this. This is what I was calling for at SoD, only he or I can be the puppetmaster to Davos. Davos's role said they were a landlord by proxy, meaning they were attached to a landlord whom I believe is currently in the game. I do not believe they were attached to Brad. I believe Wilgy is trying to worm his way out of being caught ad Davos's owner.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 6:46 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:09 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:38 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:13 pm I don't really suspect Epi, either, because they moved their vote after I unvoted Davos, and I can't think of a reason why a wolf would rather flip a sock puppet than someone who's a mislunch.

But you GG'd me WHILE thinking this?

It was because of Epi's timing, though. Idk, I've been rethinking this all day and I feel like I'd rather flip Delta, except that I still believe you're Davos's owner.

And on the topic of Davos, yes, I remember what you said about how Scrappy and Davos came from games with different sock puppet mechanics. But if anything, I believe that would still make it more likely Scrappy mightve been an external player (for a total number of players that is odd) and Davos is a player in the game (not adding an extra to the count).

Didn't leetic (and my dumbass) point out that Lime Coke was Davos?

I don't believe that Davos wouldn't have flipped if we had flipped the remaining landlord first.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 5:30 pm Bleh, if we are in Arbiter controlled lylo, WWA's stance continues to make sense, but again confbias.

Also if 2 WWA has to be it because of the thread split, but eh.

Why are you so worried about arbiter-controlled LyLo? There are no puppets left, a landlord puppet just flipped but their owner did not, and so presumably we are all town vs 1 arbiter, 1 landlord.

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 4:26 pm I don't see why the idea of Brad being Davos should be so easily discounted. After all, it has been shown twice that socks don't die at the same time as their owners. Doing the bare minimum to avoid spewing is something I would easily see Brad doing. Still, if there is a remaining landlord, that would suggest that the arbiters have some sort of ace up their sleeve or, worse, a fifth member. If it's the former, there's at least a 3/4 chance said ace is dead, and if it's the latter, town is kind of screwed here anyway unless we get very lucky with crossfire.

Because I believe the puppet would've died if its puppetmaster had flipped. I don't see enough evidence to believe that Brad has been controlling it.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 4:02 pm Yeah, I've been chilling here thinking myself in circles about you this past hour.

Landlord WWA is even less likely to kill Nutella as that creates a risky Landlord, Landlord, Town PoE which is losing.

Town WWA's first assumption SHOULD be that I'm Arbiter as 2 landlords from their thread had been found and point 1 applies to me as well

It's only Arbiter WWA, who would argue that there's still an landlord pilot over that I'm just an Arbiter, as they know I can't be the remaining Arbiter. The mentions of "could still be an Arbiter" are unsubstantiated and just serve as "yeah I'm totally still considering that there's an arbiter in our thread."

Because no puppet flipped with "by proxy is an arbiter"??? Like wtf are you on about, there was no arbiter puppet. Of course I'm going to say you're a landlord, because Davos flipped with "by proxy is a landlord" attached to their flip.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 2:11 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:57 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:26 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:35 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:31 pm It seems Epi has already realized his mistake, but I'll go over the logic of Brad being Davos just to be sure. Cape90's role PM said that they were the only one who could see both threads, so Davos can't be anyone from my side, and Davos flipped as a wolf, meaning they can't be anyone who flipped town or ITP. Thus, there are only three people who Davos could possibly be: Brad, WWA, and Wilgy. Now look at the last day's lynch. Both WWA and Wilgy gave up a lynch on me (and on WWA in Wilgy's case) to get rid of Davos, with Davos also crossvoting WWA which would not be ideal if they were w/w. Keep in mind that if there is a living landlord remaining, having Davos alive would give them a huge advantage over the other team, and I don't see why they'd give it up so easily. Further, Davos's behavior does fit in with w!Brad's behavior when he was sent into my thread in Severance, so it does make sense.

Seems to me that a landlord would be willing to flip Davos if it gave them a chance to save themselves, if they didn't think they could build a wagon on anyone else. Especially if it's the one controlling the puppet; it would basically function as distancing from a teammate, except against their own puppet account.

This isn't super important, though, because Wilgy can still be an arbiter if I'm wrong. But my belief is that the arbiter is on the West side of the thread and that Wilgy was controlling Davos, because of what I said before about having a completely dead landlord team in a XyLo situation save for Davos.

"It's always Wilgy, but even if I'm wrong it's Wilgy? But it's also Delta"

WWA, assuming that it's not me, where do the remaining wolves lie?

My assumption is that it's you and Delta. There's no way it's not you, because of the Davos flip, unless Leetic is right and it was tied to Brad. But Davos was tied to someone who can only logically be in east.
I guess if I assume it was Brad and not you controlling Davos, I might reconsider leetic again, but I'm not particularly inclined to today.

"There's no way it's not you, because of the Davos flip" - but this contradicts your thoughts that I am an arbiter if not landlord?

You are looking for reasons to shove and don't actually believe what you are saying.

Nah, I'm not looking for reasons. I believe you have to be Davos's puppetmaster, and if you were town I would've expected you to push me for the same reason earlier in the day. But you put effort into building a case on me where there didn't need to be. I don't need to build a case on you because you have to be a wolf.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:26 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:35 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:31 pm It seems Epi has already realized his mistake, but I'll go over the logic of Brad being Davos just to be sure. Cape90's role PM said that they were the only one who could see both threads, so Davos can't be anyone from my side, and Davos flipped as a wolf, meaning they can't be anyone who flipped town or ITP. Thus, there are only three people who Davos could possibly be: Brad, WWA, and Wilgy. Now look at the last day's lynch. Both WWA and Wilgy gave up a lynch on me (and on WWA in Wilgy's case) to get rid of Davos, with Davos also crossvoting WWA which would not be ideal if they were w/w. Keep in mind that if there is a living landlord remaining, having Davos alive would give them a huge advantage over the other team, and I don't see why they'd give it up so easily. Further, Davos's behavior does fit in with w!Brad's behavior when he was sent into my thread in Severance, so it does make sense.

Seems to me that a landlord would be willing to flip Davos if it gave them a chance to save themselves, if they didn't think they could build a wagon on anyone else. Especially if it's the one controlling the puppet; it would basically function as distancing from a teammate, except against their own puppet account.

This isn't super important, though, because Wilgy can still be an arbiter if I'm wrong. But my belief is that the arbiter is on the West side of the thread and that Wilgy was controlling Davos, because of what I said before about having a completely dead landlord team in a XyLo situation save for Davos.

"It's always Wilgy, but even if I'm wrong it's Wilgy? But it's also Delta"

WWA, assuming that it's not me, where do the remaining wolves lie?

My assumption is that it's you and Delta. There's no way it's not you, because of the Davos flip, unless Leetic is right and it was tied to Brad. But Davos was tied to someone who can only logically be in east.
I guess if I assume it was Brad and not you controlling Davos, I might reconsider leetic again, but I'm not particularly inclined to today.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:15 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:09 pm

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:38 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:13 pm I don't really suspect Epi, either, because they moved their vote after I unvoted Davos, and I can't think of a reason why a wolf would rather flip a sock puppet than someone who's a mislunch.

But you GG'd me WHILE thinking this?

It was because of Epi's timing, though. Idk, I've been rethinking this all day and I feel like I'd rather flip Delta, except that I still believe you're Davos's owner.

And on the topic of Davos, yes, I remember what you said about how Scrappy and Davos came from games with different sock puppet mechanics. But if anything, I believe that would still make it more likely Scrappy mightve been an external player (for a total number of players that is odd) and Davos is a player in the game (not adding an extra to the count).

But then we're back to anyone from our thread Nutella and that still fails to make sense.

Probably a bus drive if it came from you. All I know is that it wasn't a redirect and also that I don't believe it was on purpose from our side. But I firmly believe the kill came from whoever is in the west.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 1:13 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:21 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:10 pm Nope. Still doesn't check out.

leetic said this in RESPONSE to you saying, "you should ONLY vote within Wilgy/me today. Davos's flip should confirm to you that the Landlord is on the East side and can only be one of the two of us."

If leetic has civilian information, then leetic is breaking the rules, but the response doesn't make sense in that context as a reply to you.

I don't think that's the case. I think leetic flat out goofed.

I think leetic was just saying that Davos could've taken up a second landlord slot without being a separate player, though. Which I'm not sure I agree with, because then that would be 3 landlords and a puppet, which feels a little off.

If that one feels off to you, why did no one jump to the opposition of the Davos yeet? If there are 2 remaining landlord voices in the game, why weren't they pushing for end game?

It would've been easy enough to do.

Well, leetic opposed it. But I don't count Davos as a separate voice from whoever the last landlord is because I'm still under the assumption they were controlled.

Sorry btw I'm making dinner for guests so I'm sorta half here

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:43 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:15 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:13 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:05 pm To everyone else: you should ONLY vote within Wilgy/me today. Davos's flip should confirm to you that the Landlord is on the East side and can only be one of the two of us.

Brad being Davos makes enough sense. I do think Wilgy is likely the remaining Arbiter though

Ah shit, I forgot that the sock puppets might not die when the owners do
Isn't that kind of crazy, though, like if we yeeted all the remaining wolves out of the thread and ignored Davos, the landlords would just win by existing?

Why/where did the sock puppet assumptions come from? Who defined a sock as linked to an in game player?

I assumed that there was something that said this, but this was never the case in thread. I stated this previously, but the behavior of both original games Scrappy and Davos came from were different, where Scrappy was linked and Davos WAS the player.

Davos's flip said it was a landlord by proxy

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Sun Feb 18, 2024 12:38 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:13 pm I don't really suspect Epi, either, because they moved their vote after I unvoted Davos, and I can't think of a reason why a wolf would rather flip a sock puppet than someone who's a mislunch.

But you GG'd me WHILE thinking this?

It was because of Epi's timing, though. Idk, I've been rethinking this all day and I feel like I'd rather flip Delta, except that I still believe you're Davos's owner.

And on the topic of Davos, yes, I remember what you said about how Scrappy and Davos came from games with different sock puppet mechanics. But if anything, I believe that would still make it more likely Scrappy mightve been an external player (for a total number of players that is odd) and Davos is a player in the game (not adding an extra to the count).

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:44 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:39 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:36 pm While I'm not entirely unconcerned with there being a remaining landlord, if there is it's just Delta. Getting the last arbiter will likely win us the game, and I think it's likely that they're in the other thread as every other wolf wasn't entirely alone in their thread (Brad at least had a second vote to play with), but I'll still look over Delta and Epi since it is so late in the game.

I feel like Delta is more likely an arbiter, though, because they started with isoing the landlords in the West (pyxxy) and never continued with the arbiters. My suspicion is that theyre hiding the interactions that incriminate them, but since I can't see the West thread, I need input from others. Did Delta have any interactions with Rico or Falcon that stood out?

Epi had a case on Delta being paired with pyxxy, but I disagreed and the Delta suspicion eventually fizzled out. I don't even think Delta voted for the last few days, which would be an interesting strategy if they're a lone wolf at this point.

But that's exactly why it's problematic that Delta is sitting back and not participating much in the discussion. If they're a wolf, then things are definitely going their way because they haven't been particularly close to getting lunched. By not voting, they avoid drawing attention to themselves, which imo is a perfectly valid strategy for a lone wolf.

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:39 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:35 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:31 pm It seems Epi has already realized his mistake, but I'll go over the logic of Brad being Davos just to be sure. Cape90's role PM said that they were the only one who could see both threads, so Davos can't be anyone from my side, and Davos flipped as a wolf, meaning they can't be anyone who flipped town or ITP. Thus, there are only three people who Davos could possibly be: Brad, WWA, and Wilgy. Now look at the last day's lynch. Both WWA and Wilgy gave up a lynch on me (and on WWA in Wilgy's case) to get rid of Davos, with Davos also crossvoting WWA which would not be ideal if they were w/w. Keep in mind that if there is a living landlord remaining, having Davos alive would give them a huge advantage over the other team, and I don't see why they'd give it up so easily. Further, Davos's behavior does fit in with w!Brad's behavior when he was sent into my thread in Severance, so it does make sense.

Seems to me that a landlord would be willing to flip Davos if it gave them a chance to save themselves, if they didn't think they could build a wagon on anyone else. Especially if it's the one controlling the puppet; it would basically function as distancing from a teammate, except against their own puppet account.

This isn't super important, though, because Wilgy can still be an arbiter if I'm wrong. But my belief is that the arbiter is on the West side of the thread and that Wilgy was controlling Davos, because of what I said before about having a completely dead landlord team in a XyLo situation save for Davos.

Wilgy stopped voting me (while sig was still on my wagon) when I moved to Davos. Granted, you had already voted Davos at the point (even if you hadn't on the poll) so Wilgy may have seen where the wind was blowing. Still, if there is a landlord remaining and Davos was still alive, the setu would likely be 2-2-1 today, a very advantageous position for landlords that I wouldn't see them giving up so easily.

Ok, I see what you're saying. I think there is a case in which it wouldn't give landlords much of an advantage today, though, and it would be if the puppet account would also die if their owner dies. In which case, for someone who is in the PoE with a puppet account in the PoE, if the puppet account will be taken out of the game when the owner flips, it's probably better to gambit and sacrifice the puppet if you think you're gonna flip anyway.

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:36 pm While I'm not entirely unconcerned with there being a remaining landlord, if there is it's just Delta. Getting the last arbiter will likely win us the game, and I think it's likely that they're in the other thread as every other wolf wasn't entirely alone in their thread (Brad at least had a second vote to play with), but I'll still look over Delta and Epi since it is so late in the game.

I feel like Delta is more likely an arbiter, though, because they started with isoing the landlords in the West (pyxxy) and never continued with the arbiters. My suspicion is that theyre hiding the interactions that incriminate them, but since I can't see the West thread, I need input from others. Did Delta have any interactions with Rico or Falcon that stood out?

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:31 pm It seems Epi has already realized his mistake, but I'll go over the logic of Brad being Davos just to be sure. Cape90's role PM said that they were the only one who could see both threads, so Davos can't be anyone from my side, and Davos flipped as a wolf, meaning they can't be anyone who flipped town or ITP. Thus, there are only three people who Davos could possibly be: Brad, WWA, and Wilgy. Now look at the last day's lynch. Both WWA and Wilgy gave up a lynch on me (and on WWA in Wilgy's case) to get rid of Davos, with Davos also crossvoting WWA which would not be ideal if they were w/w. Keep in mind that if there is a living landlord remaining, having Davos alive would give them a huge advantage over the other team, and I don't see why they'd give it up so easily. Further, Davos's behavior does fit in with w!Brad's behavior when he was sent into my thread in Severance, so it does make sense.

Seems to me that a landlord would be willing to flip Davos if it gave them a chance to save themselves, if they didn't think they could build a wagon on anyone else. Especially if it's the one controlling the puppet; it would basically function as distancing from a teammate, except against their own puppet account.

This isn't super important, though, because Wilgy can still be an arbiter if I'm wrong. But my belief is that the arbiter is on the West side of the thread and that Wilgy was controlling Davos, because of what I said before about having a completely dead landlord team in a XyLo situation save for Davos.

I still think it's Wilgy, though. I mean, yeah, it definitely could not have been Abbi or pyxxy, but that's 2. Brad makes 3. Is it realistic that the landlords were a team of 3 with 1 sock puppet between them who was basically keeping their team alive until yesterday? I have my doubts

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:24 pm To be clear, ONLY Lime Coke could have been the damn pirate bird. That's why leetic said as much. No slip there. I had some names mixed up.

Ah, OK lol.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:10 pm Nope. Still doesn't check out.

leetic said this in RESPONSE to you saying, "you should ONLY vote within Wilgy/me today. Davos's flip should confirm to you that the Landlord is on the East side and can only be one of the two of us."

If leetic has civilian information, then leetic is breaking the rules, but the response doesn't make sense in that context as a reply to you.

I don't think that's the case. I think leetic flat out goofed.

I think leetic was just saying that Davos could've taken up a second landlord slot without being a separate player, though. Which I'm not sure I agree with, because then that would be 3 landlords and a puppet, which feels a little off.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:06 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:04 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:03 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:57 pm I swear I come in every day start, thinking I've got a solid lead, and then I just get less and less certain as the day wears on.

I have two late-breaking pieces of evidence against leetic:

1) Jumping on you at the 11th hour after I did (as a ruse), and
2) Declaring Brad as the controller of the poppet when there is no evidence that is the case.

Number 2 is stronger than number 1. Together, it's is a red damn flag.

Is there no chance leetic might "slip" that Davos info if they are a townie who found out through some means?

Why here and why now? Is that how that universe reads?

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:13 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:05 pm To everyone else: you should ONLY vote within Wilgy/me today. Davos's flip should confirm to you that the Landlord is on the East side and can only be one of the two of us.

Brad being Davos makes enough sense. I do think Wilgy is likely the remaining Arbiter though

Maybe leetic privately receives flip info or something, that's what I can think of. Definitely not a rolecop or adjacent.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:04 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:03 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:57 pm I swear I come in every day start, thinking I've got a solid lead, and then I just get less and less certain as the day wears on.

I have two late-breaking pieces of evidence against leetic:

1) Jumping on you at the 11th hour after I did (as a ruse), and
2) Declaring Brad as the controller of the poppet when there is no evidence that is the case.

Number 2 is stronger than number 1. Together, it's is a red damn flag.

Is there no chance leetic might "slip" that Davos info if they are a townie who found out through some means?

I'm only saying this because I've gotten called out for infoslips as a town investigative. And unfortunately leetic isn't gonna be able to confirm or deny whether they are. But it is a thought that I have.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 9:03 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:57 pm I swear I come in every day start, thinking I've got a solid lead, and then I just get less and less certain as the day wears on.

I have two late-breaking pieces of evidence against leetic:

1) Jumping on you at the 11th hour after I did (as a ruse), and
2) Declaring Brad as the controller of the poppet when there is no evidence that is the case.

Number 2 is stronger than number 1. Together, it's is a red damn flag.

Is there no chance leetic might "slip" that Davos info if they are a townie who found out through some means?

Even if Davos really was Brad, though, why wouldn't there be another Landlord in play? Leetic's angle on Wilgy is that Wilgy is an Arbiter and the last wolf.

I swear I come in every day start, thinking I've got a solid lead, and then I just get less and less certain as the day wears on.

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:51 pm Idk, maybe it's just because *Brad* flipped so easily without properly defending himself? But from what I hear, so did pyxxy. Only thing preventing Davos from being pyxxy is that pyxxy wouldn't have had thread view in the East. So I guess I can kinda see a reason there for it to be Brad. But Brad just... flips like that, as scum, even if he doesn't become a stump or control a puppet. I didn't read into his lack of defense more than that.

EBWOP

Idk, maybe it's just because flipped so easily without properly defending himself? But from what I hear, so did pyxxy. Only thing preventing Davos from being pyxxy is that pyxxy wouldn't have had thread view in the East. So I guess I can kinda see a reason there for it to be Brad. But Brad just... flips like that, as scum, even if he doesn't become a stump or control a puppet. I didn't read into his lack of defense more than that.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:44 pm If leetic is caught on Day 8 because of an old fashioned slip in GOC 2024, that's fun shit right there.

I'm trying to determine why they'd ever feel the need to mention Brad in the first place if they're a landlord and knew who Davos was, though. Seems like it wouldn't be very well thought out, and I would like to think leetic is more conscientious than that? I mean if they blurt who they believe Davos to be, isn't it more likely it's from town (or Arbiter) who doesn't care if they drop information because they know it doesn't incriminate them?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:41 pm Ok yeah, Brad never voted. I thought it was just because he was in antispew, though.

Davos voted Nutella that day. Lol

Ok yeah, Brad never voted. I thought it was just because he was in antispew, though.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:37 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:35 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:32 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:29 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:26 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:23 pm I thought leetic's jump on you when I made my 11th hour play against you was super suspicious. Thoughts?

I gave thoughts a couple posts ago. Leetic's PoE was very firmly only Wilgy/me, so I think pointing out that Wilgy and I were both voting Davos as a reason to jump off of Davos and onto me made sense in context.

The one thing that stuck out to me was that earlier, leetic was against voting Davos or at least avoiding the topic, but when arguing with Wilgy they voted Davos in a way that sounded like they were intimidating Wilgy to vote there, too. And that's probably the only thing that didn't make sense to me in Leetic's progression, but I don't know that it's enough to warrant suspicion.

I should clarify: the part that doesn't make sense to me is that leetic thought I was a wolf, then thought Wilgy was a wolf, but followed my vote onto Davos in order to make Wilgy vote there, and then voted me at EoD *because* both Wilgy and I were still on Davos. Like there's a gap in reasoning in between, but I don't think it's really alignment indicative?

My interpretation was that leetic saw you as an easy "real person" kill once I moved and could thus leave Davos for Day 8.

Hmm. So you think their last-minute vote swing was opportunistic, because it would give them a better chance of endgaming?

Precisely.

And I do not understand why leetic chimed in with "Brad was Davos."

There is no evidence whatsoever that I can see with my own two peepers that this specifically is the case.

Speaking of which, I'm going to go and check the East Facility to see if Brad and Davos both voted on D1 or not. That's about the only evidence I could think of that might point to that, even though leetic didn't have access to it AFAIK. And if double-voting is a thing then it doesn't mean much.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:32 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:29 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:26 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:23 pm I thought leetic's jump on you when I made my 11th hour play against you was super suspicious. Thoughts?

I gave thoughts a couple posts ago. Leetic's PoE was very firmly only Wilgy/me, so I think pointing out that Wilgy and I were both voting Davos as a reason to jump off of Davos and onto me made sense in context.

The one thing that stuck out to me was that earlier, leetic was against voting Davos or at least avoiding the topic, but when arguing with Wilgy they voted Davos in a way that sounded like they were intimidating Wilgy to vote there, too. And that's probably the only thing that didn't make sense to me in Leetic's progression, but I don't know that it's enough to warrant suspicion.

I should clarify: the part that doesn't make sense to me is that leetic thought I was a wolf, then thought Wilgy was a wolf, but followed my vote onto Davos in order to make Wilgy vote there, and then voted me at EoD *because* both Wilgy and I were still on Davos. Like there's a gap in reasoning in between, but I don't think it's really alignment indicative?

My interpretation was that leetic saw you as an easy "real person" kill once I moved and could thus leave Davos for Day 8.

Hmm. So you think their last-minute vote swing was opportunistic, because it would give them a better chance of endgaming?

Anyway, idk what to make of Leetic's theory that Brad could've been Davos's owner. I still think Davos would've died if the owner died, or it would potentially lead to a weird XyLo situation.

On an unrelated note, no event today?

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:26 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:23 pm I thought leetic's jump on you when I made my 11th hour play against you was super suspicious. Thoughts?

I gave thoughts a couple posts ago. Leetic's PoE was very firmly only Wilgy/me, so I think pointing out that Wilgy and I were both voting Davos as a reason to jump off of Davos and onto me made sense in context.

The one thing that stuck out to me was that earlier, leetic was against voting Davos or at least avoiding the topic, but when arguing with Wilgy they voted Davos in a way that sounded like they were intimidating Wilgy to vote there, too. And that's probably the only thing that didn't make sense to me in Leetic's progression, but I don't know that it's enough to warrant suspicion.

I should clarify: the part that doesn't make sense to me is that leetic thought I was a wolf, then thought Wilgy was a wolf, but followed my vote onto Davos in order to make Wilgy vote there, and then voted me at EoD *because* both Wilgy and I were still on Davos. Like there's a gap in reasoning in between, but I don't think it's really alignment indicative?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:23 pm I thought leetic's jump on you when I made my 11th hour play against you was super suspicious. Thoughts?

I gave thoughts a couple posts ago. Leetic's PoE was very firmly only Wilgy/me, so I think pointing out that Wilgy and I were both voting Davos as a reason to jump off of Davos and onto me made sense in context.

The one thing that stuck out to me was that earlier, leetic was against voting Davos or at least avoiding the topic, but when arguing with Wilgy they voted Davos in a way that sounded like they were intimidating Wilgy to vote there, too. And that's probably the only thing that didn't make sense to me in Leetic's progression, but I don't know that it's enough to warrant suspicion.

I would definitely like to hear from Delta today, btw. It felt like they were sitting back during a lot of the discussion yesterday and letting it happen rather than jumping in and giving their opinion.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:18 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:16 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:14 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:05 pm To everyone else: you should ONLY vote within Wilgy/me today. Davos's flip should confirm to you that the Landlord is on the East side and can only be one of the two of us.

Why did you unvote after I voted you?

Because I wanted the Davos flip, but not more than I wanted whatever flip was going to be most informative for everyone else to solve the game. I wanted the flip for info, but I wasn't going to self-pres on a sock puppet.

You dying over Davos was not going to be informative to me. Nothing here is. There are no more teams (I don't believe).

I did make leetic jump though, didn't I?

Idk, I thought flipping a player slot rather than a puppet slot was at least a bit more useful lol

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:11 pm [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

Fairly sure this is the last wolf. Still, I will look at Epi and Delta since it's so late in the game

If Davos flipped landlord and you think Wilgy is an Arbiter, you think Davos counted as a whole mafia slot?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:14 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:05 pm To everyone else: you should ONLY vote within Wilgy/me today. Davos's flip should confirm to you that the Landlord is on the East side and can only be one of the two of us.

Why did you unvote after I voted you?

Because I wanted the Davos flip, but not more than I wanted whatever flip was going to be most informative for everyone else to solve the game. I wanted the flip for info, but I wasn't going to self-pres on a sock puppet.

leetic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:13 pm

WindwardAway wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 8:05 pm To everyone else: you should ONLY vote within Wilgy/me today. Davos's flip should confirm to you that the Landlord is on the East side and can only be one of the two of us.

Brad being Davos makes enough sense. I do think Wilgy is likely the remaining Arbiter though

Ah shit, I forgot that the sock puppets might not die when the owners do
Isn't that kind of crazy, though, like if we yeeted all the remaining wolves out of the thread and ignored Davos, the landlords would just win by existing?

I don't really suspect Epi, either, because they moved their vote after I unvoted Davos, and I can't think of a reason why a wolf would rather flip a sock puppet than someone who's a mislunch.

Last night when looking through EoD again, I talked myself out of scumreading leetic. They moved their vote very reasonably when they saw that both Wilgy and I were voting Davos.