The Syndicate

genny wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:43 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:40 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:37 pm I'm not opposed to a scum read on Lawpy. Mayo mentioned the lack of Lawpisms and that's something I've pointed out to Lawpy when we've wolfed together.
At the same time I didn't think dya was coming off scummy so ???
What's a Lawpyism?
Engaged

And we’re rear

Mayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:37 pm @Zenge - Creature flips wolf, does that have an effect on your falcon read?

Your Marmot read?

Not really. Unless someone is going to tell me Falcon never busses

genny wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:20 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:17 pm
genny wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:14 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:09 pm I enjoy the energy of Mac constantly calling Zenge Zedge
i think it glosses over his henge-like qualities to call him zedge. makes him sound like some kind of weak grass.
Oh you don’t want strong grass, you’ll burn out the motor on your lawn mower
but what will the goats eat if i mow?

Should really use sheep. They’re less likely to eat the fence too.

genny wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:14 pm
potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:09 pm I enjoy the energy of Mac constantly calling Zenge Zedge
i think it glosses over his henge-like qualities to call him zedge. makes him sound like some kind of weak grass.

Oh you don’t want strong grass, you’ll burn out the motor on your lawn mower

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:59 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:58 pm @RonaldMcDonald can you not?

PSV is village fam. Your murderous “I’m loving it”’s are not appreciated.
Who is the most suspicious SDNer?

I agreed with the kill list PSV posted as good options. Genny and Miranda.

If I told you Falcon was a secret SDN person would you vote there?

@RonaldMcDonald can you not?

PSV is village fam. Your murderous “I’m loving it”’s are not appreciated.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:42 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:41 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:29 pm
Mayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:27 pm This thread is like playing with samac and shorty and their twins.

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine
Who's samac?
[VOTE: Some people say she talks too much. We put Samac in slow motion.] aubergine
Zenge, so glad you're here. Ronald MacDonald and toot toot want to kill me.

Well that’s appalling.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:29 pm
Mayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 8:27 pm This thread is like playing with samac and shorty and their twins.

[VOTE: Creature[/creature]] aubergine
[VOTE:

Who's samac?] aubergine

[VOTE:

[VOTE: Some people say she talks too much. We put Samac in slow motion.] aubergine] aubergine

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:46 pm I think probably my preference is creature > marmot > falcon > genny > Miranda (?)

It’s not a bad list, on the whole, of people to Woosh across neck motion.

Mayo the Mayo wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 5:39 pm
SARdoghandler wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 6:03 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:58 pm
SARdoghandler wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 5:49 pm Oh good beetlejeuse worked. Welcome back Santy

[VOTE: unvote] aubergine
Hihi . Your only trouble or what pinged you me being missing? Nothing else ?

I mean, I am pretty blank since I have read nothing of D1. How about you?
I just wanted to see you here because you not here was sus. Not like wolfy sus but just general sus if that makes sense?

I have read probably 10% of D1 and focused mainly on the SDNers for now.

Not feeling mighty, maybe dy but I almost never play with her anyway. Nate, genny, and mayo next but feeling ok with them for now, just not as good as I feel about Zenge/PSV/Miranda

Isn't this just a ranking of the baseline sus of the SDNers (except maybe the noob)?

Zenge/PSV are village read at baseline
Mayo, Genny, Nate are some level of sus at baseline

PSV gets misyeeted all the time. I’ve been misyeeted recently too. I wouldn’t say we’re village read at baseline

Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:19 pm Yikes massive quote fail

Get it together, Lawpy

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:08 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:50 pm Actually I think this continues to be an example of Sloonei being super scummy in this.

Claiming that I’m Blinding attacking ANYONE who doesn’t agree with my Falcon read is a gross misrepresentation of the facts and reality.
Let me rephrase: You are responding to commentary around your Falcon read more defensively than is necessary. I do not believe there has been resistance to your push. I feel more like you have resisted people who talk to you about it (i.e. myself and santy.)

That’s probably fair.

I did perceive the initial response you had to my Falcon push the way I did. You say it wasn’t your intention, but I think you’re willing to agree my interpretation wasn’t an outlandish one.

I’ve seen your ISO. I’m interested in seeing Falcons response. I think there’s some good merits to your points

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:23 pm
miranda920 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:19 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:17 pm
miranda920 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:10 pm I'm interested in why @Seanzie is on SAR, she doesn't feel overtly scummy to me

I'm currently torn on where to put my vote and I don't have much time left before I need to leave for Taylor Swift!
Gth I think she does because the progression of

Voting me to 'beetlejuice' > Sheeping Zenge on falcon without caring much about individual read on Falcon its pretty bad
okay, I see your perspective

I struggle with seeing her as anything but town because of my bias
To be fair its not like SAR is howling, but on a base level. Could see this being SAR scum game, but keeping in mind its still pretty similar to SAR playstyle of flying pants or something like that.

Usually its far easier to rely on Dubz soulread, sadge

There’s some irony here of scum reading SAR for sheeping me, while admitting you usually sheep Dubz for reading SAR.

I think is defense of SARs sheep, she’s played with me a fair amount. I think SAR knows I never make pushes like this as a wolf, and even as a villager I almost NEVER make pushes on anyone as strongly as I’ve been pushing Falcon here.

Actually I think this continues to be an example of Sloonei being super scummy in this.

Claiming that I’m Blinding attacking ANYONE who doesn’t agree with my Falcon read is a gross misrepresentation of the facts and reality.

Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:39 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:37 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:36 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:32 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:30 pm
Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:28 pm I feel like there’s a lot of resistance to zenges push on falcons

Santy at least is approaching from a pretty strongly village trajectory by highlighting the need to reassess in the event Zenges is wrong and looking for other wolves that don’t depend primarily on falcons being a wolf
There is a lot of resistance, yes. It’s been an uphill battle.
Consider your own role in that.
Watch your tone, Sloonei, you look pretty bad in a Wolf!Falcon world.

Consider your attempt to shut down the Flacon push early and then all the backtracking, hedging, and distancing you’ve done since to claim that this wasn’t what you were doing.

Your refusal to answer the point by point questions I laid out for you hasn’t been forgotten.
My point exactly.

You have been so blindly tunneled on Falcon that you are attacking anyone who doesn't immediately agree with you.

I am not participating in this discussion again.
I’m not attacking anyone. I’m arguing with Santy, but his approach to this conversation has been pro-town.

Yours has been scummy. There’s a stark contrast

Emphasis on Anyone. As in - “I’m not attacking JUST anyone, who disagrees with me. Only the ones who are super scummy about it”

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:37 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:36 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:32 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:30 pm
Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:28 pm I feel like there’s a lot of resistance to zenges push on falcons

Santy at least is approaching from a pretty strongly village trajectory by highlighting the need to reassess in the event Zenges is wrong and looking for other wolves that don’t depend primarily on falcons being a wolf
There is a lot of resistance, yes. It’s been an uphill battle.
Consider your own role in that.
Watch your tone, Sloonei, you look pretty bad in a Wolf!Falcon world.

Consider your attempt to shut down the Flacon push early and then all the backtracking, hedging, and distancing you’ve done since to claim that this wasn’t what you were doing.

Your refusal to answer the point by point questions I laid out for you hasn’t been forgotten.
My point exactly.

You have been so blindly tunneled on Falcon that you are attacking anyone who doesn't immediately agree with you.

I am not participating in this discussion again.

I’m not attacking anyone. I’m arguing with Santy, but his approach to this conversation has been pro-town.

Yours has been scummy. There’s a stark contrast

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:34 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:28 pm You’re asking me to not solve based on my wolf read though. That just doesn’t make sense.

I think Falcon is a wolf. By far this is my strongest read. So my other wolf reads are going to stem from that, which is what Santy is asking me to ignore. he doesn’t want to hear about who I think could be partnered with Falcon.

Ergo, he’s asking for my wolf reads in a Village!Falcon world (as emphasized by his “if I had mech proof falcon was village” statement).

I’m not going to exert a bunch of energy and waste my time building cases I don’t believe in.

This is my issue.

You not haing the ability to read people independently of Falcon.

Can't you recognize or have arguments of someone being scum NOT RELATED to falcon???

Look at the keyword here, not related. You don't even have to flip falcon as scum or village. Just ignore partnering aspect and you don't have reads???

I don't believe that, hence why I am asking you to work with me

Santy, I posted a reads list not too long ago. A lot of those are not based exclusively on Falcon. Go read it if you’re wondering where my head is at on the entire game. But I’m not going to build strong cases against people under the assumption Flacon is village.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:32 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:30 pm
Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:28 pm I feel like there’s a lot of resistance to zenges push on falcons

Santy at least is approaching from a pretty strongly village trajectory by highlighting the need to reassess in the event Zenges is wrong and looking for other wolves that don’t depend primarily on falcons being a wolf
There is a lot of resistance, yes. It’s been an uphill battle.
Consider your own role in that.

Watch your tone, Sloonei, you look pretty bad in a Wolf!Falcon world.

Consider your attempt to shut down the Flacon push early and then all the backtracking, hedging, and distancing you’ve done since to claim that this wasn’t what you were doing.

Your refusal to answer the point by point questions I laid out for you hasn’t been forgotten.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:31 pm
Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:28 pm I feel like there’s a lot of resistance to zenges push on falcons

Santy at least is approaching from a pretty strongly village trajectory by highlighting the need to reassess in the event Zenges is wrong and looking for other wolves that don’t depend primarily on falcons being a wolf
At least recently, I think the resistance is more about figuring out what other reads Zenge has, and less about the fact that falcon's the one being pushed.

No but he’s asking me for wolf reads outside of a Wolf!Falcon world.

I don’t want to work hard solving the game under the assumption I’m wrong without actually flipping Falcon. That just completely undermines my position. I don’t want to build cases I don’t believe in.

Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:28 pm I feel like there’s a lot of resistance to zenges push on falcons

Santy at least is approaching from a pretty strongly village trajectory by highlighting the need to reassess in the event Zenges is wrong and looking for other wolves that don’t depend primarily on falcons being a wolf

There is a lot of resistance, yes. It’s been an uphill battle.

You’re asking me to not solve based on my wolf read though. That just doesn’t make sense.

I think Falcon is a wolf. By far this is my strongest read. So my other wolf reads are going to stem from that, which is what Santy is asking me to ignore. he doesn’t want to hear about who I think could be partnered with Falcon.

Ergo, he’s asking for my wolf reads in a Village!Falcon world (as emphasized by his “if I had mech proof falcon was village” statement).

I’m not going to exert a bunch of energy and waste my time building cases I don’t believe in.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:10 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:07 pm If Flacon by some miracle flips Village I’ll have egg on my face and re-evaluate everything.

Do it now. No need to get super deep. Surface level thought on who would still be a wolf , can be unrelated to Falcon.

And giving your input on the what-ifs doesnt mean you need to stop thinking about W!Falcon world

Give me a Village case for Falcon and I’ll consider it.

And honest to god village case. Not some handwavy BS about how a few Syndicate players feel like he’s village. Players who by the way are notoriously bad at actually reading Flacon, by their own admission.

Not one of those people, or you, or anyone else has laid out one sold case for why this is a lock villager.

And by the way. You don’t know the affiliation of ANY of those people either. So their handwaving about “Flacon is just sketchy sometimes, just ignore him” means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

No one. Has given me a reason to say Falcon isn’t a wolf. This is my wolf read. I’m certain of it. I’m sticking with it.

I get that you don’t agree with it. Fine. Go do something else then. I’m not throwing away a perfectly good wolf read just because not everyone agrees.

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:09 pm Okay, fine
[VOTE: creature ] aubergine

You know Falcons are creatures. Just saying.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:08 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:03 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:00 pm I am a Falcon Partner now for suggesting having mech pointing at them being villa?
Where did I say this?
It is a rethorical question.
I am expecting to have something else from you and doing questions here

No I don’t think you’re a Falcon wolf partner. Despite your pushback.

The way you’ve gone about it is more villagey. Unlike some people who’s push back has been very scummy.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:03 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:01 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:58 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:57 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:54 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:56 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:33 am

Again Santy. I have reassessed. Falcon still comes up wolf. Every. Single. Time.
I think you are missing my point.

Again.

I am not saying that you should villa-read Falcon now. I am telling you to reassess and look farther. You are having only worldview consisten and being 100% reliable on falcon being a wolf.

If I tell you I have the mech equivalent on falcon being Villa, what would you do? Deflate and do nothing? Because it seems like that ln you focusing only on that

@Zenge I want you to answer me the last question
I’m not going to speculate on hypotheticals.

You’re asking me who I would push in a Village!Falcon world. But I don’t believe that’s the world we’re in.

So you’re basically asking me which villagers would I misyeet. I’m not sure that’s a productive hypothetical
Yes it is.
It’s not though. You’re asking me to abandon my reads and do a complete 180. What this question boils down to when you take it to its logical conclusion is “which of my village reads is a wolf”. And I’m not really interested in exploring that, especially when you’re framing it based on a foundation that Falcon is Lock town in this hypothetical.
I'm telling you to look for other wolves, not discard your village reads.

Zenge, work with meeeeeee . Who else is woooofingggg

And I’m telling you my world view is one built around Falcon being a wolf. I’m looking at who supports Falcon on bad reasoning and whether they’re a pack mate. I’m looking at people who build wagons to compete with Falcon to try and save them.

IF Falcon magically flips village, I’ll have completely different views. But I’m not fucking moving off of Falcon. I’m not changing my read. I’m here until I’m dead or Falcon flips.

If Falcon flips wolf, people who were super scummy in their defense will need to answer for their crimes. If Flacon by some miracle flips Village I’ll have egg on my face and re-evaluate everything.

This a wolf read Santy. I’m not walking away from it just because it’s an uphill battle.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 1:00 pm I am a Falcon Partner now for suggesting having mech pointing at them being villa?

Where did I say this?

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:58 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:57 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:54 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:56 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:33 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:31 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:28 am

The way you phrased it isn’t the best but I actually disagree.

There is merit to the argument that even if I’m wrong, because so many people have weighed in and talked a decent amount about this that a Falcon flip would give a lot of information on other players. If I’m right though, then that’s still true, and it’s even better.
I disagree with all my heart to the secnd argument. There is 0 merit there, where you should just reassess.

Doing the sheep thing, then they are just being allowing to your tunnel which is bad so /shrug
Again Santy. I have reassessed. Falcon still comes up wolf. Every. Single. Time.
I think you are missing my point.

Again.

I am not saying that you should villa-read Falcon now. I am telling you to reassess and look farther. You are having only worldview consisten and being 100% reliable on falcon being a wolf.

If I tell you I have the mech equivalent on falcon being Villa, what would you do? Deflate and do nothing? Because it seems like that ln you focusing only on that

@Zenge I want you to answer me the last question
I’m not going to speculate on hypotheticals.

You’re asking me who I would push in a Village!Falcon world. But I don’t believe that’s the world we’re in.

So you’re basically asking me which villagers would I misyeet. I’m not sure that’s a productive hypothetical
Yes it is.

It’s not though. You’re asking me to abandon my reads and do a complete 180. What this question boils down to when you take it to its logical conclusion is “which of my village reads is a wolf”. And I’m not really interested in exploring that, especially when you’re framing it based on a foundation that Falcon is Lock town in this hypothetical.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:54 pm
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:56 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:33 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:31 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:28 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:21 am Like, Sar voting with you not because they read Falcon a particular way, just that you will get 'untunneled' its just such a lazy and bad reason to vote someone. Its bogus.

You shouldn't be causing that sort of excuses in wolves or mindset in town. Its super unproductive
The way you phrased it isn’t the best but I actually disagree.

There is merit to the argument that even if I’m wrong, because so many people have weighed in and talked a decent amount about this that a Falcon flip would give a lot of information on other players. If I’m right though, then that’s still true, and it’s even better.
I disagree with all my heart to the secnd argument. There is 0 merit there, where you should just reassess.

Doing the sheep thing, then they are just being allowing to your tunnel which is bad so /shrug
Again Santy. I have reassessed. Falcon still comes up wolf. Every. Single. Time.
I think you are missing my point.

Again.

I am not saying that you should villa-read Falcon now. I am telling you to reassess and look farther. You are having only worldview consisten and being 100% reliable on falcon being a wolf.

If I tell you I have the mech equivalent on falcon being Villa, what would you do? Deflate and do nothing? Because it seems like that ln you focusing only on that

@Zenge I want you to answer me the last question

I’m not going to speculate on hypotheticals.

You’re asking me who I would push in a Village!Falcon world. But I don’t believe that’s the world we’re in.

So you’re basically asking me which villagers would I misyeet. I’m not sure that’s a productive hypothetical

Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:42 pm Why is @Neon voting Dennis?

Because Neon typed Dennis between the vote brackets

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:40 pm @Zenge @SARdoghandler @mightyrunner7 @miranda920 Hey can we get some pressure on mayo?

I’m not moving. Also if Mayo is softing vig I don’t want to force him to out that.

Although idk why he wouldn’t have shot Falcon. Smh.

Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:14 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:06 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:58 am Actually I looked at tutuu's ISO and think she's being townie. She does have 74 posts, so she's clearly caught up in the game to some extent, so the fact that she's sheeping a vote on me is a little weird, but her ISO does look like she's working toward a worldview that does contain Sloonei and Mac as top townreads, so it isn't that weird.

I think my entire wagon is town with the possible exception of Santy. If that's the case, I would gander that falcon is also town, and the wolves are not doing much, or they're off voting smaller wagons atp, otherwise wolves would probably focus more attention on my slot.
alright thats a more characteristic take of marmot (re: me)

can i ask u about the second paragraph a bit. im losing the string of logic

"the wolves are not doing much, or they're off voting smaller wagons atp, otherwise wolves would probably focus more attention on my slot."

why? like. this is hard to. put in words.

"I think my entire wagon is town with the possible exception of Santy" - cool, i get it
"If that's the case, I would gander that falcon is also town" - cool, i get it
"and the wolves are not doing much, or they're off voting smaller wagons atp" - cool, i get it

"otherwise wolves would probably focus more attention on my slot." - i really dont get this one in connection with the previous ones

to me this reads like the last part is not analysis, and its basically saying ...

it feels to me like you're saying "i think that linkin park is great, therefore they aren't bad"

like - i just dont get it

is there some implication/thought that the wolves should or shouldnt be focusing on you? is there something im missing? or is your sentence saying "the wolves are focusing on the small wagons, otherwise they would be focusing on me, the big wagon" - and thats it

^ really confused at that
I believe that the majority of the time, if falcon/me are opposing wagons then falcon would go over first, particularly when I am town, so if falcon is a wolf and he and I are opposing wagons, I do think the wolves would have to coordinate in order to get me over before him.

I say this strictly based on the argument that falcon is chopped more than I am.

I get that it is a very specific argument coming from my v!marmot head, but that's the logic behaind it.

I think this makes sense and I agree with it

potentialsheltervet wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 12:06 pm
tutuu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 2:39 am i lied (for the last time i swear i need to do work)

colors ar epretty

seanzie
mac
neon
svs
dennis
lawpy
zenge
SAR (riding on PSV mafia)

sloonei
miranda

PSV

i originally colored PSV orange but then i thought naw fam fuck that PUSSY ASS SHIT u are getting the RED COLOR thats right boyyyy im seeing red im like a bull and ur like that matador u trynna finesse me but boiii u dont know who u dealing with RAF RAF RAF RAFA R FRAFARA BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLHORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN
Awww ouch

Yeah it’s not a read I was in favor of

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:31 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:28 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:21 am Like, Sar voting with you not because they read Falcon a particular way, just that you will get 'untunneled' its just such a lazy and bad reason to vote someone. Its bogus.

You shouldn't be causing that sort of excuses in wolves or mindset in town. Its super unproductive
The way you phrased it isn’t the best but I actually disagree.

There is merit to the argument that even if I’m wrong, because so many people have weighed in and talked a decent amount about this that a Falcon flip would give a lot of information on other players. If I’m right though, then that’s still true, and it’s even better.
I disagree with all my heart to the secnd argument. There is 0 merit there, where you should just reassess.

Doing the sheep thing, then they are just being allowing to your tunnel which is bad so /shrug

Again Santy. I have reassessed. Falcon still comes up wolf. Every. Single. Time.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:21 am Like, Sar voting with you not because they read Falcon a particular way, just that you will get 'untunneled' its just such a lazy and bad reason to vote someone. Its bogus.

You shouldn't be causing that sort of excuses in wolves or mindset in town. Its super unproductive

The way you phrased it isn’t the best but I actually disagree.

There is merit to the argument that even if I’m wrong, because so many people have weighed in and talked a decent amount about this that a Falcon flip would give a lot of information on other players. If I’m right though, then that’s still true, and it’s even better.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:20 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:18 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:14 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:07 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:57 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:56 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:53 am

I see your arguments and still think you are tunneling. Everyone is saying that you are hypeefocusing.

You need to have a fair assessment on how you are viewing the game, because even if falcon is a wolf I feel like you are going about it the wrong way
That’s fair.

That being said, what has Falcon done that you think deserves a village read on Falcon?

Nothing Flacon has done since has made me question if they were village. The PSV push they made for example was dark. Wolfy to the bone. Evil Tuna=Rotten to the Albacore

All syndicaters and people who know him.more than you are saying that they are town.

Only people voting him is people that doesnt know them as much. That is enough for me to think that wagon is probably a miss
I don’t think that’s fair. I think there’s been a lot of chatter from Syndicate players who said that Falcon was definitely off. They were just shy about committing to a vote there.

I want to emphasize that these Syndicate player reads of “Yeah Falcon is really off, this isn’t Village Falcon at all” came during the back and forth he was having with me.

Now that’s settled a bit, but obviously in the face of that pressure any wolf would adjust their play. But the reads from Syndicate players when things were going down, were largely “Falcon is being weird, I don’t think this is Village!Falcon, I just don’t want to vote there”.

This is why I am not following you.

You are doing a lot of stretching here to dismiss the people confidently reading falcon as town
If you’re talking about Sloonei I think that’s paired, and I’m not the only one. Lawpy sees what I was seeing with Sloonei defending Falcon.

And people who have “defended Falcon” otherwise didn’t provide strong village reads IN THE MOMENT.

The majority of reads from Syndicate people in the moment were that Falcon was absolutely 100% scum, they just didn’t want to vote there.
Sloonei, Macdougall (V confident town of mine) , tuutuu.

I think SVS also but not quite sure.

That for sure is enough to me.

Time.To.Reassess.

Get out of your W!Falcon world, you have been staring at them for far too long and its making you blind to the rest of the game

I’ve been reassessing with every single post Falcon makes. I’m not wrong Santy. There’s no reason to give Falcon a villager read.

Some people can be wrong about how they’re reading Falcon. That’s fine. It’s normal and to be expected. But not a single one of the people you mentioned actually made a strong village case for Falcon.

They simply dismissed my case and gave a village read. None of them actually ISOd Falcon, pulled quotes and laid out a strong case for why Falcon is lock town.

Because they can’t.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:14 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:07 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:57 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:56 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:53 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:39 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:32 am I'm sorry but I remember the first time I played with falcon I also sussed them, took the insight of some Syndicate people that were kinda in the middle and just went into 'sure falcon is mafia' mindset ignoring other people calling them town and never really got out of there. Falcon was town there.
I think seeing the falcon wagon as PURE SDN and the peole from the same site that know him more calling them town should be a huge signal of that wagon being bad.
I know Zenge is tunneled . But I hope this is a wake-up call if you are town

@SARdoghandler @potentialsheltervet @mightyrunner7
Santy pls. Join the Falcon vote. The waters fine. Just dip your toe in.

Look I get this argument that people are making that “Oh Falcon is just a super sketchy player. It’s why he gets misyeeted”.

That is not the issue, Santy.

How often have you seen me protect noobs even though they were sketchy as hell?

I can tell the difference between a villager who is sketchy and wolf.

This isn’t about “sketchyness”. Flacon evaded and obfuscated pressure and questioning from me, in a way that was scummy. It wasn’t “villager but sketchy” it was scummy.

I see your arguments and still think you are tunneling. Everyone is saying that you are hypeefocusing.

You need to have a fair assessment on how you are viewing the game, because even if falcon is a wolf I feel like you are going about it the wrong way
That’s fair.

That being said, what has Falcon done that you think deserves a village read on Falcon?

Nothing Flacon has done since has made me question if they were village. The PSV push they made for example was dark. Wolfy to the bone. Evil Tuna=Rotten to the Albacore

All syndicaters and people who know him.more than you are saying that they are town.

Only people voting him is people that doesnt know them as much. That is enough for me to think that wagon is probably a miss
I don’t think that’s fair. I think there’s been a lot of chatter from Syndicate players who said that Falcon was definitely off. They were just shy about committing to a vote there.

I want to emphasize that these Syndicate player reads of “Yeah Falcon is really off, this isn’t Village Falcon at all” came during the back and forth he was having with me.

Now that’s settled a bit, but obviously in the face of that pressure any wolf would adjust their play. But the reads from Syndicate players when things were going down, were largely “Falcon is being weird, I don’t think this is Village!Falcon, I just don’t want to vote there”.

This is why I am not following you.

You are doing a lot of stretching here to dismiss the people confidently reading falcon as town

If you’re talking about Sloonei I think that’s paired, and I’m not the only one. Lawpy sees what I was seeing with Sloonei defending Falcon.

And people who have “defended Falcon” otherwise didn’t provide strong village reads IN THE MOMENT.

The majority of reads from Syndicate people in the moment were that Falcon was absolutely 100% scum, they just didn’t want to vote there.

A sketchy villager does not respond to me the way Falcon did. A sketchy villager doesn’t push me the Falcon did. A sketchy villager doesn’t have people come out of the woodwork to try and shut down discussion the way people did when I started pushing Falcon.

As a villager, Falcon is sketchy, I’m told. That’s not what’s happening here. Falcon is not simply “sketchy”. Falcon is a wolf.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:02 am Zenge, I think that anyone just blindly following you on hyperfocused mode while ignoring all the more likely to be correct townreads from people that know falcon more are more likely to be wolves. Like, I think that shows a lack lf nuance and them goimg for an easy vote qithout questioning much, just 'following zenge' is a good enough excuse.

Even if falcon is a wolf (unlikely) , I think you also have a Wolf voting with you tbh

Also no. I don’t think there’s a wolf voting with me. This wagon is pure.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:57 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:56 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:53 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:39 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:32 am I'm sorry but I remember the first time I played with falcon I also sussed them, took the insight of some Syndicate people that were kinda in the middle and just went into 'sure falcon is mafia' mindset ignoring other people calling them town and never really got out of there. Falcon was town there.
I think seeing the falcon wagon as PURE SDN and the peole from the same site that know him more calling them town should be a huge signal of that wagon being bad.
I know Zenge is tunneled . But I hope this is a wake-up call if you are town

@SARdoghandler @potentialsheltervet @mightyrunner7
Santy pls. Join the Falcon vote. The waters fine. Just dip your toe in.

Look I get this argument that people are making that “Oh Falcon is just a super sketchy player. It’s why he gets misyeeted”.

That is not the issue, Santy.

How often have you seen me protect noobs even though they were sketchy as hell?

I can tell the difference between a villager who is sketchy and wolf.

This isn’t about “sketchyness”. Flacon evaded and obfuscated pressure and questioning from me, in a way that was scummy. It wasn’t “villager but sketchy” it was scummy.

I see your arguments and still think you are tunneling. Everyone is saying that you are hypeefocusing.

You need to have a fair assessment on how you are viewing the game, because even if falcon is a wolf I feel like you are going about it the wrong way
That’s fair.

That being said, what has Falcon done that you think deserves a village read on Falcon?

Nothing Flacon has done since has made me question if they were village. The PSV push they made for example was dark. Wolfy to the bone. Evil Tuna=Rotten to the Albacore

All syndicaters and people who know him.more than you are saying that they are town.

Only people voting him is people that doesnt know them as much. That is enough for me to think that wagon is probably a miss

I don’t think that’s fair. I think there’s been a lot of chatter from Syndicate players who said that Falcon was definitely off. They were just shy about committing to a vote there.

I want to emphasize that these Syndicate player reads of “Yeah Falcon is really off, this isn’t Village Falcon at all” came during the back and forth he was having with me.

Now that’s settled a bit, but obviously in the face of that pressure any wolf would adjust their play. But the reads from Syndicate players when things were going down, were largely “Falcon is being weird, I don’t think this is Village!Falcon, I just don’t want to vote there”.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:53 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:39 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:32 am I'm sorry but I remember the first time I played with falcon I also sussed them, took the insight of some Syndicate people that were kinda in the middle and just went into 'sure falcon is mafia' mindset ignoring other people calling them town and never really got out of there. Falcon was town there.
I think seeing the falcon wagon as PURE SDN and the peole from the same site that know him more calling them town should be a huge signal of that wagon being bad.
I know Zenge is tunneled . But I hope this is a wake-up call if you are town

@SARdoghandler @potentialsheltervet @mightyrunner7
Santy pls. Join the Falcon vote. The waters fine. Just dip your toe in.

Look I get this argument that people are making that “Oh Falcon is just a super sketchy player. It’s why he gets misyeeted”.

That is not the issue, Santy.

How often have you seen me protect noobs even though they were sketchy as hell?

I can tell the difference between a villager who is sketchy and wolf.

This isn’t about “sketchyness”. Flacon evaded and obfuscated pressure and questioning from me, in a way that was scummy. It wasn’t “villager but sketchy” it was scummy.

I see your arguments and still think you are tunneling. Everyone is saying that you are hypeefocusing.

You need to have a fair assessment on how you are viewing the game, because even if falcon is a wolf I feel like you are going about it the wrong way

That’s fair.

That being said, what has Falcon done that you think deserves a village read on Falcon?

Nothing Flacon has done since has made me question if they were village. The PSV push they made for example was dark. Wolfy to the bone. Evil Tuna=Rotten to the Albacore

SARdoghandler wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:49 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:47 am
SARdoghandler wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:46 am I'm so village you may as well call me larger than a hamlet
Would you lie to me?

Promise?

SARdoghandler wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:46 am I'm so village you may as well call me larger than a hamlet

Would you lie to me?

SARdoghandler wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:43 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:41 am
SARdoghandler wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:39 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:32 am I'm sorry but I remember the first time I played with falcon I also sussed them, took the insight of some Syndicate people that were kinda in the middle and just went into 'sure falcon is mafia' mindset ignoring other people calling them town and never really got out of there. Falcon was town there.
I think seeing the falcon wagon as PURE SDN and the peole from the same site that know him more calling them town should be a huge signal of that wagon being bad.
I know Zenge is tunneled . But I hope this is a wake-up call if you are town

@SARdoghandler @potentialsheltervet @mightyrunner7
I'm willing to redirect, but wanted to get a vote on the board at the very least.

I want to get Zenge out of his tunnel because he's an extremely valuable town player but if he's going to hyperfocus on his falcon read then I don't know how else to do that. I've seen some of the points on Marmot/Creature (read back over the past two pages or so). Can you elaborate on why you feel strongly Creature is a hit? If you've already explicitly detailed, then directing me to a post is fine but I doubt I'll be able to do a full catch up today like I did yesterday
Pls stay
But you haven't even said hi and asked me if I'm village yet

I am heartbroken

You asked me if you were village. I would have felt like I was answering your question with a question.

Are you village?

SARdoghandler wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:39 am
santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:32 am I'm sorry but I remember the first time I played with falcon I also sussed them, took the insight of some Syndicate people that were kinda in the middle and just went into 'sure falcon is mafia' mindset ignoring other people calling them town and never really got out of there. Falcon was town there.
I think seeing the falcon wagon as PURE SDN and the peole from the same site that know him more calling them town should be a huge signal of that wagon being bad.
I know Zenge is tunneled . But I hope this is a wake-up call if you are town

@SARdoghandler @potentialsheltervet @mightyrunner7
I'm willing to redirect, but wanted to get a vote on the board at the very least.

I want to get Zenge out of his tunnel because he's an extremely valuable town player but if he's going to hyperfocus on his falcon read then I don't know how else to do that. I've seen some of the points on Marmot/Creature (read back over the past two pages or so). Can you elaborate on why you feel strongly Creature is a hit? If you've already explicitly detailed, then directing me to a post is fine but I doubt I'll be able to do a full catch up today like I did yesterday

Pls stay

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:32 am I'm sorry but I remember the first time I played with falcon I also sussed them, took the insight of some Syndicate people that were kinda in the middle and just went into 'sure falcon is mafia' mindset ignoring other people calling them town and never really got out of there. Falcon was town there.
I think seeing the falcon wagon as PURE SDN and the peole from the same site that know him more calling them town should be a huge signal of that wagon being bad.
I know Zenge is tunneled . But I hope this is a wake-up call if you are town

@SARdoghandler @potentialsheltervet @mightyrunner7

Santy pls. Join the Falcon vote. The waters fine. Just dip your toe in.

Look I get this argument that people are making that “Oh Falcon is just a super sketchy player. It’s why he gets misyeeted”.

That is not the issue, Santy.

How often have you seen me protect noobs even though they were sketchy as hell?

I can tell the difference between a villager who is sketchy and wolf.

This isn’t about “sketchyness”. Flacon evaded and obfuscated pressure and questioning from me, in a way that was scummy. It wasn’t “villager but sketchy” it was scummy.

santygrass wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 9:27 am Don't agree in Nate being town. I think they are capable of doing that post as mafia?
But I do think that V!Nate can make like, a lot of post of that quality of insight and just be a Goat in a way that W!Nate cant replicate

(Tho I only played agaisnt W!Nate one time so shhh)

Yeah I agree with this sentiment.

Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:13 am
Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:05 am
Lawpy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 3:00 am Could you please clarify what you’re referring to as Day 1 noise here?
I'm specifically referring to the initial disagreement between Falcon and Zenge. By "Day 1 noise" I meant something similar to what other people mean when they say "random voting stage". That is, I thought Falcon was just doing his typical game-opening play which would happen regardless of alignment. Zenge's reaction to it looked like a player who'd never seen Falcon before. That was why I chimed in to begin with, and I spent much of the rest of Day 1 trying to reiterate that point.

Falcon has been underwhelming since those opening moments.
I think Falcons’s responses to Zenges push on him is what’s driving the engine for the Zenges tunnel on Falcons and why he kept railing against you for apparently defending Falcons

Yes. This is pretty accurate

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:57 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:40 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:14 am
Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 8:36 am
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:32 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:28 pm
Animal Midwife wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 10:27 pm

3 out of 24 votes is hardly anything to get worked up about especially with over 47 hours left.
It just felt like a lot piling onto one person in a very short amount of time
Well, I s'pose you could ask those voting Miranda as to their reasons...but you're not doing that.

Why?
Actually this is sort of hypocritical on review. Falcon votes me immediately after this. They’re tasking issue with my saying I’m uncomfortable with how fast the three votes seemed to pile onto Miranda, and not asking each of the voters for the reasons for their votes.

But then never asks me why I don’t like the wagon.

What’s worse here is I just noted that it was odd how many votes came on Miranda in rapid succession. But I didn’t use that as an opportunity to wolf read anyone or try to vote them out. Falcon here though did the exact same thing he accused me of doing and used it as an excuse to try and get me misyeeted.

That’s foundationally unsound.

You already said why you did not like the wagon, remember?

Now you're saying you found the speed of the wagon odd, before you clearly said you did not like it. So, is it strange, or is it scummy? There's a big difference.

You're also toning down the phrasing each time...first you say you don't like it, then uncomfortable, then odd. You keep scaling back how you feel about the wagon.

I see you still haven't followed up w/ any of the wagon voters. Duly noted.
First of all, no, I haven’t said why. I’ve said things about I don’t like but I haven’t stated my primary gripe with it.

Secondly, as part of my issue with the wagon, I originally said I felt like it was happening very quickly. Claiming I only just now have taken issue with the speed is a blatant lie and mischaracterization of reality.

Lastly I don’t need to follow up with the voters at this time. I don’t believe going to each one individually and asking them “why are you voting Miranda?” Like Oliver Twist asking for soup, will yield any relevant information from their catered and crafted answers. That’s not how I solve.

It’s furthermore counterintuitive for you to make such a big todo about how “WhY aReN’T yOu aSkiNg fOr tHeiR rEaSonS?!?!” When you yourself seem wholly uninterested in the reasons yourself.

I have a reason for not asking. But you, who based on your push of me it seems puts an ENORMOUS amount of value on asking people why they’re voting for someone is entirely uninterested in actually figuring out why people are voting for who they are. This is counterintuitive in a way that seems fairly scummy.
Bro wtf is this?

You got initially sus of Falcon because he didn't ask you what was wrong with the wagon, but you had already said some stuff that was wrong with it that he had read, and instead of accepting that you say no I haven't said my primary gripe with it. How the fuck is he supposed to know what you haven't said?

Dude, if you engage people this way you are going to be so prone to confbias and tunnels? There is nothing at all wrong with Falcon's mindset in this post and if you think him disengaging with you later is wolfy consider that you might be tunneling.

This was early on. It was contentious to be sure, but not close to where the pivotal moment was

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 1:02 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:50 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:40 pm
falcon45ca wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 12:36 pm OK, I'm done w/ Zenge for now. I feel he's intentionally bogging down discussion on a single topic, and so!

Moving on
I don’t think so. Answer my question, Falcon.

Why do you believe that my trying to guess how wolves would approach the game, and then looking to see if anyone is doing what I expect wolves to do, isn’t a “Towny Mindset”?

Cuz' you don't follow up or question any of those players that are doing the exact thing you suspect wolves of doing
No no no. These are two completely separate issues, and you’re trying to get out of answering the question by muddling them together.

You bolded my saying here’s how I imagine the wolves would approach the game, and you responded by saying “This isn’t a towny mindset”.

Now that I’m asking you to explain why thinking about how the wolves would approach the game and looking to see if anyone is doing exactly what I expect wolves to do isn’t a “towny mindset, you defaulted back to saying I wasn’t asking players why they voted for Miranda which has absolutely nothing to do with the question at hand.

I asked my question to you clearly and concisely twice. The first time you tried to ignore it. The second time you continued to try and shade me with something that has absolutely nothing to do with the question that I asked you.

That’s it. We’re thunderdoming.

This is a wolf, full stop.

[VOTE: Falcon45ca] aubergine

@MacDougall heres where it reaches a head for me

Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:29 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:17 pm
Spoiler: show
Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 10:07 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:32 pm
Zenge wrote: ↑Wed Apr 19, 2023 9:31 pm This isn’t an answer. What specifically did I say that you felt was an example of my “Twisting his words”?
What is your read on me right now?
Not great. Especially since you refused to answer this question and just asked another question, which was about how I’m reading you.

Villager’s don’t generally care as much about how others are reading them and are usually more willing to answer extremely basic and simple questions.
The reason I ask is because I fail to see the benefit of continuing this dialogue unless you are actively suspicious of me.

I feel as though I have answered you in sufficient detail. I have gone into more detail than I thought necessary. I even addressed your most recent question in the post you were responding to: You painted Falcon as suspicious for not asking you why you disliked the Miranda wagon, when it was not unreasonable to assume that Falcon had assumed your objection was that the votes came too quickly.

You have asked me to respond to a bunch of things, but I am failing to see what value is being gained right now. It feels as though you are hounding me simply as a reflex. So how are you reading me, and why are my answers to your questions so important?

I’m not hounding you as a reflex I’m extremely suspicious of you because your defense of Falcon has been extremely scummy.

Your failure to answer my questions has been extremely scummy. Anyone who actually reads the answers you gave to the questions I’ve asked would agree that like a politician, you’ve answered by saying a lot of words and never actually answering my questions.

So let’s do this. I’m giving you one more opportunity to answer my questions honestly. I’m going to make them as simple as possible.

1. I said “This is what I expect wolves to do. Im looking for people who are doing this.” -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

2. Falcon highlighted my quote discussed in point #1 and said that it was a Wolfy mindset. -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

3. I asked Falcon why it was he was claiming that was a “Wolfy mindset”. -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

4. Falcon followed that by saying he was done discussing with me, instead of explaining himself. -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

5. I pressed Falcon again and asked him AGAIN to answer the question. -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

6. Falcon answered by making an unrelated complaint about my not asking people voting for Miranda why they were voting for Miranda. -This is a fact. Do you agree or disagree with that. If you disagree why specifically?

I’d like you to answer these point by point. I doubt you will. I expect you’ll continue to obfuscate and give hand wavy answers.

@Lawpy @MacDougall
Here’s where I lay out some point by point facts about what happened, for your reference

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