The Syndicate

Roxy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:59 am @Camilla this does not mean you are clear bc I'm looking at Alison.

So you're going to ML me today then ML Alison.

Good to know.

Roxy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:54 am It's my granddaughter day but we must sort Alison/Camilla.

Yep I posted all about Camilla last day and to day I'll be reading Alison.

Both firmly in the poe.

Alison is a bus driver - self admitted. Wishy washy reads that contradict often.
Camilla is event I posted yesterday.

After I have time a properly read Alison

I'll be back

@pyxxy @Jackofhearts2005 will you also really dive into Alison?

@cami

Alison never flips wolf here.

If she were then D4 she would just let me/Jack/Pyxxy tunnel each other rather than bus Wilgy.

She's not the kind of player to make such a throw.

Especially as she was the main pusher behind the D1 wolf lynch while both PRs were not outed.

Alison wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:10 am Thread died huh?

Where is roxy?

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:32 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 2:28 am @pyxxy

Also ftr, I don't get why PR hunting is wolfy.

I do it as both alignments such as here in my Gwen account(https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6824932) where I PR'd hunt to clear the Desperado.

I was a bit more blatant in that game since Detective Popcorn was being pushed while here nobody was pushing Roxy after d2.
.......it's.......the context.......

.......it's just.......clearly.......not pro-town..............to out.......the doc.......in this situation.......

.......to an extent.......it's already..............too late..............if.......we.......have..............another day.......tomorrow.......scum.......has.......a good guess.......tonight.......

..............I engaged.......because.......I wanted to see..............if you.......would falter..............you held.......I respect it.......however.......as I said..............

..............I.......await..............roxy.......

Yh, that was my bad in my part but I don't think it's 100% outing as Roxy can just lie or let it ambiguous for today and my PR read isn't guaranteed to be correct.

I'm just certain that Jack if the last wolf and I don't want him to be able smooth-talk his way into endgaming.

@pyxxy

Also ftr, I don't get why PR hunting is wolfy.

I do it as both alignments such as here in my Gwen account(https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost6824932) where I PR'd hunt to clear the Desperado.

I was a bit more blatant in that game since Detective Popcorn was being pushed while here nobody was pushing Roxy after d2.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:13 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:05 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:04 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:03 am Let's be real, if you think I'm a wolf and I go over today then there's no harm in claiming since from a V!You PoV then the game just ends.
Sure but I don’t follow strategic suggestions from players I think are wolves, either.
If I'm a wolf like you say, the game just ends and there's no point in not claiming.

What am I going to do? Have the 4th wolf kill the Doctor?
.......which is why.......I said.......what I said.......about.......alison.......being doc.......in your true.......worldview.......

.......because.......if you're town..............forcing.......Jack.......to VT claim..............is.......-EV.......and scumsided.......

.......unless.......you.......really think.......doc Jack.......claims here..............ever.......which.......please..............then..............this.......has.......no point.......

..............and.......if doc jack.......ever did.......that too.......would be..............-EV.......for town.......ergo..............conclusion.......est.......

I'm extremely confident of my wolfread on Jack.

If I die today then at least I want Jack to die tomorrow.

Camilla wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:01 am
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:59 pm Does it help us to block wolf jack from ccing doc at f3?

lets say jack goes f3 with vt and doc

doc claims -> jack ccs -> jack vs doc tdome

doc claims -> jack doesnt cc -> jack vs vt tdome

either way jack has to tdome someone so it doesnt help him much?
Would limit his options.

If say the weakest player in the F3 is the doctor then he'll be able to dome the doctor.

If not then just claim VT.

Like say if he claims VT today and kills Roxy thinking that she's the doctor and in the end Pyxxy is the doctor, then he's basically required to dome Alison, and vice versa.

If the village is going to throw today then I at least want to shut Jack down for tomorrow.

@Jackofhearts2005

Sticking to the VT claim?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:04 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:03 am Let's be real, if you think I'm a wolf and I go over today then there's no harm in claiming since from a V!You PoV then the game just ends.
Sure but I don’t follow strategic suggestions from players I think are wolves, either.

If I'm a wolf like you say, the game just ends and there's no point in not claiming.

What am I going to do? Have the 4th wolf kill the Doctor?

Let's be real, if you think I'm a wolf and I go over today then there's no harm in claiming since from a V!You PoV then the game just ends.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:01 am I’m VT or doctor.

Sticking to the VT claim?

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:59 pm Does it help us to block wolf jack from ccing doc at f3?

lets say jack goes f3 with vt and doc

doc claims -> jack ccs -> jack vs doc tdome

doc claims -> jack doesnt cc -> jack vs vt tdome

either way jack has to tdome someone so it doesnt help him much?

Would limit his options.

If say the weakest player in the F3 is the doctor then he'll be able to dome the doctor.

If not then just claim VT.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:53 pm I'm not saying a fucking word about who I'm voting or what claim I'm believing at f3 and neither should anyone else. First because I don't know myself and often re-read and reevaluate at f3 and you should too. Second because we shouldnt give wolves any hint about what combo of townies is most likely to make them win.

I'm not planning for a F3 as I either die today or the game just ends.

I've had suspicions on J's slot since D2 as he tends to lose interest in games as a wolf and Jack's extremely TMI-y approach to Wilgy just seals the deal.

If the village makes the wrong choice today then I at least want Jack to stick to a claim for the F3.

I know that I'm sounding like Gavial/Seth but I've been calling for the head of J's slot since d2 and nobody has been listening to me meanwhile he had me as town until his PoE demanded that he broadened it.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:43 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:38 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:29 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:07 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:58 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:48 pm I wanna do a trustfall and distrustfall
.......don't forget.......yourself.......
Well a trustfall and distrustfall is when you list the strongest reason to townread or scumread someone

And the idea is you get a better sense of the solve by seeing who you had to try the hardest to come up with reasons for

I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you, but I dont think i struggled to come up with reasons to trust anyone

So if i trustfalled myself it would just be because I know my role card lol
"I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you"

.......oh..............that's interesting.......

..............question.......for.......the thread..............

.......does.......everyone.......find me.......towncleared.......by both wolves.......wanting me dead?..............

.......like..............I am.......the nk..............10 times out of 10..............tonight?.......
If I get elim'd today then the NK will probably be Alison, tbh.

I think Roxy is the doctor and Jack's wincon would basically be getting Roxy to vote you as Alison is TR'ing you, and Alison would be extremely hard to ML.

I don't think Alison would let Jack live if I die today and I don't think if he does CC Roxy that you'd vote Roxy.

I'd frankly just force Jack to claim VT/Doc today so CC'ing here is impossible for him tomorrow.
.......boooooooo.......

.......you're.......supposed.......to go along.......with it.......

.......I had a whole thing.......where.......I get confirmed.......towncleared.......by everyone.......and then claim doc.......to make scum.......WIFOM it.......

I mean, I'd just like to force Jack to stick to a claim.

If I die today then Jack can't open up the PoE by CC'ing a doctor.

Whether Roxy/you/Alison is the doc is kind of irrelevant as Roxy can also not be doctor and if she dies and isn't it then lolwolves for trusting the PR read of the person who cop-read Tutuu.

Either way, yeah.

I'm VT and I'd like Jack to claim by the EoD.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:29 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:07 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:58 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:48 pm I wanna do a trustfall and distrustfall
.......don't forget.......yourself.......
Well a trustfall and distrustfall is when you list the strongest reason to townread or scumread someone

And the idea is you get a better sense of the solve by seeing who you had to try the hardest to come up with reasons for

I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you, but I dont think i struggled to come up with reasons to trust anyone

So if i trustfalled myself it would just be because I know my role card lol
"I had the hardest time coming up with reasons to distrust you"

.......oh..............that's interesting.......

..............question.......for.......the thread..............

.......does.......everyone.......find me.......towncleared.......by both wolves.......wanting me dead?..............

.......like..............I am.......the nk..............10 times out of 10..............tonight?.......

If I get elim'd today then the NK will probably be Alison, tbh.

I think Roxy is the doctor and Jack's wincon would basically be getting Roxy to vote you as Alison is TR'ing you, and Alison would be extremely hard to ML.

I don't think Alison would let Jack live if I die today and I don't think if he does CC Roxy that you'd vote Roxy.

I'd frankly just force Jack to claim VT/Doc today so CC'ing here is impossible for him tomorrow.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:16 pm I need to travel to another city so ill be gone for a few hours. Will check back in later today.

I ask that jack and camilla refrain from the thing where they quote every post the other person writes and goes "this is outing". Even if you are right it doesnt help me get there on them and becomes tedious after a while. (I am a hypocrite bc i do this too sometimes but im just telling you it wont do anything to help me decide)

Sure, so I guess I'll just towncase myself, then.

Like, my SoD2 should basically clear me as it pretty much shows that I have no TMI as I would never think "Tutuu has a wolfmate as her top townread, must be the cop" as wolf.

While I tend to add a lot of micro to my wolfgame such as overplaying frustration that thing I did at the SoD2 isn't something I'd ever think to do as a wolf.

That, and I tend to have a no bussing meta, which I can prove by listing my recent wolfgames, and I wouldn't have shaded Porscha like that or just yolovoted Wilgy were I a wolf, but that's self-meta and yeah.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:03 pm Distrustfall
Camilla - I'm not really sure if I buy some of her self defense today. Its true that tutuu and zenon townreading her counts for something but it feels iffy for her to frame it like she would never kill them even though she obviously would. It makes some sense for porscha to be demoralized d1 if her partners are an afk wilgy and afk camilla.

Jack - Same thing as camilla, porscha flopping over belly up makes sense if she had no active teammates to defend her (as prince j was afk). Preflipping wilgy felt weird, and he was much less paranoid of me than usual before the wilgy flip (i know there is an explanation, but still).

Pyxxy - Has self-admittedly coasted a bit. Seemed more interested in shading zenon and tutuu eod1 even when he was counterwagoning a maf. Has not really pushed either flipped wolf or brought any earth shattering thoughts to the thread.

Roxy - hasnt done much other than have good tone. Had a jack/camilla solve yesterday when everyone else caught wilgy.

IRT to the NKA, I don't get how people are certain that the wolves RB'd Scotty.

In this world then this would mean that the actual doctor did not protect the green check, which feels like an extremely throw-y move to do.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:58 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:48 pm I wanna do a trustfall and distrustfall
.......don't forget.......yourself.......

Why would W!Alison bring attention to Wilgy D4?

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:54 pm Trustfall
Camilla - voted two wolves early and didnt move off, tutuu and zenon had her in towncore, has had clout + personality to get the wagons off her partners if scum but hasnt really made an attempt to do so. No idea how she finds her way to a win if she forces a tdome with jack

Jack - his solves have seemed thoughtful even when i don't fully agree with them. Voted for wilgy and didnt shift off, and iirc questioned wilgy's assertion that it should be scotty/pyx yesterday before i did

Pyxxy - has been generally townie on play even through the gimmick, and both flipped wolves have seemed very interested in getting him exed

Roxy - has had flashes of really townie moments that seem difficult to fake. Refusal to go along with consensus seems genuinely paranoid, especially when the consensus is stuff like "lets kill falcon/rondo" that a scum would be happy to go along with

I didn't exactly vote for Porscha?

I just found her reaction to your vote bad but didn't manage to return in time to cast a vote.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:39 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:38 pm Unfortunately I don't think I can.

The way I treat my PR reads is that I defend them if they're pushed and nothing else as if they're not in danger of being ML'd then there's no point to do so as you're just signaling to the wolves.

Since Roxy wasn't being under pressure then there was no point in bringing attention to her then.
Hows it supposed to be clear to us then, if you know full well you gave no indication

If you want to rely on your roxy pr read as a defense you have to give some evidence it wasnt made up on the spot

Meh, but the main argument against the NKA pretty much boils down to the fact that the wolves rb'd Scotty and then killed Tutu.

If they did Rb Scotty then this means that the actual doctor did not protected the green check n3, so this theory's either just likely bunk.

A lot of it is conjecture but again, I still maintain that it should be clear that Jack's the last wolf by taking a look at how fast he went from strongly TR'ing Wilgy to lockwolfing him and even going as far as spew-reading him before he even flipped.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:33 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:26 pm PRs are never blatant.

Only time where I've seen a PR be this blatant was in that Thirteen Decades game when Alison was gimmicking as Ilya and was the obvious town investigative role d1.

And I killed her n1.
What gave it away? Was it the part where I said "I'M THE TOWN PR!!!!!!" and then added a bunch of emojis after it?

Yes, as it felt like you were too PR-y it to feel like a WIFOM play.

And partially because you did the same thing in another game so yh.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:32 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:24 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:20 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:14 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:09 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:01 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:58 pm Scotty didn’t townread you.
Scotty was undecided while Roxy was tunneling me.

If I'm mafia then why is Roxy still alive?
But you just argued that all the nks were townreading you. More dishonesty.

You thought Scotty was more likely the doc or would be harder to fool or you would rather argue “If I was a wolf, I’d have killed Roxy” and also deal with Roxy than deal with Scotty without getting to make that point. Or you thought Roxy was more misyeetable than Scotty.

Like…it’s not hard to imagine. You even said yourself it was about PR hunting at sod. Now it’s supposed to be about PR hunting…unless Roxy scumreads you? Nah nah.
I've been pretty clear that I've been reading Roxy as most likely doc.

If I were a wolf that I'd just kill her.

Unlike you I'm not this bad at PR hunting.

Sorry
do you have evidence that you read roxy as the doc before today?
Yes? That's one of the main reasons I've been reluctant on PoE'ing Roxy.

Again Roxy's OMGUS-y attitude felt extremely PRish which is why I was mostly looking at Scotty/Wilgy/Pyxxy/Jack as the broader PoE after Falcon died.
I understand that is your stated reasoning for reading roxy as pr, im asking if you can prove you had this read on d4 or earlier, thus corroborating your claim that you would have killed roxy if mafia

Unfortunately I don't think I can.

The way I treat my PR reads is that I defend them if they're pushed and nothing else as if they're not in danger of being ML'd then there's no point to do so as you're just signaling to the wolves.

Since Roxy wasn't being under pressure then there was no point in bringing attention to her then.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:30 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:27 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:26 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:17 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:13 pm In checking if Neon townread Camilla or not….why did the wolves kill Neon? She wasn’t after any of them. Too obviously the cop with a green check on Tutuu if you were looking for that kinda thing I guess?
tutuu said neon was obvious cop even to her (who wasn't hunting for PR) so probs that's why

I wasn't really paying attention to PR stuff and kinda played the game mountainous so i just accepted it if thats what she saw
Okay so to be super clear, the wolf kills were:

Seanzie, who buried Portia and never mentioned Camilla at all.
Neon, who was the obvious cop
Tutuu, who was obviously greenchecked
Scotty, who did not townread Camilla

And Camilla says
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:53 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:44 pm I have to wonder what wolf camillas plan is though by forcing the tdome this hard

She loses the tdome with jack, game over.

She wins, jack flips town, she kills me, enters f3 with roxy and pyx. How does she win that? Ever?
Because I'm not a wolf.

I was the second voter on the wolf roleblocker and I'd have no reason to do so especially since the doctor was still alive.

All the NKs so far were townreading me the hardest.

The person who's been tunneling me for most of the game is still alive despite being fairly consensus town.
Please someone tell me it isn’t just me seeing dishonest post after dishonest post from Camilla.
By all I meant Neon/Tutuu.

I wasn't playing while Seanzie was still alive.

Scotty did have paranoia but unlike Roxy he was not tunneling me.
You can understand how “all the nightkills were townreading me the most” seems like a super dishonest spin on the truth of the matter, that the only nks who townread you at all would have been the nks anyways for mechanical reasons, right?

They still did read me

and their reads were more accurate than the surviving villas rn, so

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:26 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:17 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:13 pm In checking if Neon townread Camilla or not….why did the wolves kill Neon? She wasn’t after any of them. Too obviously the cop with a green check on Tutuu if you were looking for that kinda thing I guess?
tutuu said neon was obvious cop even to her (who wasn't hunting for PR) so probs that's why

I wasn't really paying attention to PR stuff and kinda played the game mountainous so i just accepted it if thats what she saw
Okay so to be super clear, the wolf kills were:

Seanzie, who buried Portia and never mentioned Camilla at all.
Neon, who was the obvious cop
Tutuu, who was obviously greenchecked
Scotty, who did not townread Camilla

And Camilla says
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:53 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:44 pm I have to wonder what wolf camillas plan is though by forcing the tdome this hard

She loses the tdome with jack, game over.

She wins, jack flips town, she kills me, enters f3 with roxy and pyx. How does she win that? Ever?
Because I'm not a wolf.

I was the second voter on the wolf roleblocker and I'd have no reason to do so especially since the doctor was still alive.

All the NKs so far were townreading me the hardest.

The person who's been tunneling me for most of the game is still alive despite being fairly consensus town.
Please someone tell me it isn’t just me seeing dishonest post after dishonest post from Camilla.

By all I meant Neon/Tutuu.

I wasn't playing while Seanzie was still alive.

Scotty did have paranoia but unlike Roxy he was not tunneling me.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:24 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:20 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:14 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:09 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:01 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:58 pm Scotty didn’t townread you.
Scotty was undecided while Roxy was tunneling me.

If I'm mafia then why is Roxy still alive?
But you just argued that all the nks were townreading you. More dishonesty.

You thought Scotty was more likely the doc or would be harder to fool or you would rather argue “If I was a wolf, I’d have killed Roxy” and also deal with Roxy than deal with Scotty without getting to make that point. Or you thought Roxy was more misyeetable than Scotty.

Like…it’s not hard to imagine. You even said yourself it was about PR hunting at sod. Now it’s supposed to be about PR hunting…unless Roxy scumreads you? Nah nah.
I've been pretty clear that I've been reading Roxy as most likely doc.

If I were a wolf that I'd just kill her.

Unlike you I'm not this bad at PR hunting.

Sorry
do you have evidence that you read roxy as the doc before today?
I swear to god if she pulls a post of Roxy saying “I am not the doc”…

PRs are never blatant.

Only time where I've seen a PR be this blatant was in that Thirteen Decades game when Alison was gimmicking as Ilya and was the obvious town investigative role d1.

And I killed her n1.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:20 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:14 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:09 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:01 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:58 pm Scotty didn’t townread you.
Scotty was undecided while Roxy was tunneling me.

If I'm mafia then why is Roxy still alive?
But you just argued that all the nks were townreading you. More dishonesty.

You thought Scotty was more likely the doc or would be harder to fool or you would rather argue “If I was a wolf, I’d have killed Roxy” and also deal with Roxy than deal with Scotty without getting to make that point. Or you thought Roxy was more misyeetable than Scotty.

Like…it’s not hard to imagine. You even said yourself it was about PR hunting at sod. Now it’s supposed to be about PR hunting…unless Roxy scumreads you? Nah nah.
I've been pretty clear that I've been reading Roxy as most likely doc.

If I were a wolf that I'd just kill her.

Unlike you I'm not this bad at PR hunting.

Sorry
do you have evidence that you read roxy as the doc before today?

Yes? That's one of the main reasons I've been reluctant on PoE'ing Roxy.

Again Roxy's OMGUS-y attitude felt extremely PRish which is why I was mostly looking at Scotty/Wilgy/Pyxxy/Jack as the broader PoE after Falcon died.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:09 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:01 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:58 pm Scotty didn’t townread you.
Scotty was undecided while Roxy was tunneling me.

If I'm mafia then why is Roxy still alive?
But you just argued that all the nks were townreading you. More dishonesty.

You thought Scotty was more likely the doc or would be harder to fool or you would rather argue “If I was a wolf, I’d have killed Roxy” and also deal with Roxy than deal with Scotty without getting to make that point. Or you thought Roxy was more misyeetable than Scotty.

Like…it’s not hard to imagine. You even said yourself it was about PR hunting at sod. Now it’s supposed to be about PR hunting…unless Roxy scumreads you? Nah nah.

I've been pretty clear that I've been reading Roxy as most likely doc.

If I were a wolf that I'd just kill her.

Unlike you I'm not this bad at PR hunting.

Sorry

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:05 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:01 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:58 pm Scotty didn’t townread you.
Scotty was undecided while Roxy was tunneling me.

If I'm mafia then why is Roxy still alive?
pyxxy suggested that its because wilgy blocked scotty n3 (when tutuu who should have been protected died), and so he was your best guess for who the doc was. So there are worlds where scum you kills scotty

Right, but Scotty was not the doctor and still died regardless.

We can put this theory to rest if Roxy claims doc and if she did in fact doc Tutuu that day or if she just trolled as I don't think she would be restricted by the non-consecutive thing as I doubt that she'd doc someone she was wolfreading n2.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:01 pm Perhaps we should be starting to wonder why Seanzie was killed D1 over such illustrious names as Camilla, tutuu, Alison, all of whom were, IIRC, more trusted than him.

I'll poke through his legacy and see if he was onto anyone

I was doing nothing d1 due to IRL.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:01 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:51 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:42 pm .......god..............I'm phrasing.......poorly.......

.......my Question.......for the thread..............

.......why does.......scum Camilla.......PR hunt now?.......

.......my answer.......is.......frustration..............about being wrong.......on scotty..............but..............I'm curious.......
I'm PR hunting because if Roxy is the Doc then the game's on auto.

Doesn't matter who is elim'd today and provided that Roxy doesn't vote you if I get elim'd today then we just win.
.......under this logic..............I think..............I still.......chop you..............and then.......preemptively.......say..............that.......I'll believe roxy.......over.......anyone else.......

.......lemme go eat dinner tho.......

I'll be okay with this if Roxy doesn't vote you tomorrow.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:58 pm Scotty didn’t townread you.

Scotty was undecided while Roxy was tunneling me.

If I'm mafia then why is Roxy still alive?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:57 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:51 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:42 pm .......god..............I'm phrasing.......poorly.......

.......my Question.......for the thread..............

.......why does.......scum Camilla.......PR hunt now?.......

.......my answer.......is.......frustration..............about being wrong.......on scotty..............but..............I'm curious.......
I'm PR hunting because if Roxy is the Doc then the game's on auto.

Doesn't matter who is elim'd today and provided that Roxy doesn't vote you if I get elim'd today then we just win.
But like….what difference does that make to town you? Wolf you needs that information to win but if town you had already won, why do you want to find the PR? And if town you hasn’t won, shouldn’t you be extra focused on finding wolves?

Because my main concern is getting voted out today and then having you/Roxy domed tomorrow and having Roxy killed.

If Roxy's the doc and claims today then it basically guaranteeds town to win.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:44 pm I have to wonder what wolf camillas plan is though by forcing the tdome this hard

She loses the tdome with jack, game over.

She wins, jack flips town, she kills me, enters f3 with roxy and pyx. How does she win that? Ever?

Because I'm not a wolf.

I was the second voter on the wolf roleblocker and I'd have no reason to do so especially since the doctor was still alive.

All the NKs so far were townreading me the hardest.

The person who's been tunneling me for most of the game is still alive despite being fairly consensus town.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:42 pm .......god..............I'm phrasing.......poorly.......

.......my Question.......for the thread..............

.......why does.......scum Camilla.......PR hunt now?.......

.......my answer.......is.......frustration..............about being wrong.......on scotty..............but..............I'm curious.......

I'm PR hunting because if Roxy is the Doc then the game's on auto.

Doesn't matter who is elim'd today and provided that Roxy doesn't vote you if I get elim'd today then we just win.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:31 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:00 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:57 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:29 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:23 pm I've been townreading pyxxy all game and Wilgy insisting that the exe be Scotty or pyxxy (along with Scotty flipping town) suggests that he is very likely just town.

That means the last scum is in Jack/Roxy/Camilla. We have two exes, so if we can clear one of these then we'll have auto.

I'll likely be focusing my play this day on this.
What are your thoughts on the idea if the doc's in this pool then they should just claim?

If we miss today and the doc is not NK'd and doesn't claim then the last wolf can just CC them.
.......aight.......so like..............even if.......you're town..............this.......is blatant.......PR hunting.......to anyone.......who's.......been..............paying attention..............to who's PR cleared.......
I have a strong PR read on Roxy.

If she's it then the game's basically auto'd as even if I'm elim'd today then Alison/you can just kill Jack tomorrow without worrying about anything else since you both have each other as TRs.
No paranoia at all that you're being snowed by pyxxy or me? You have jack 100% irrefutable scum?

If you're a wolf then last day you'd be throwing.

Nobody had Wilgy in their radar and you'd just feed in the Me/Jack/Pyxxy thunderdome.

Pyxxy has been hardpushed by the entire wolfteam and I trust your read on him so I don't think he's that likely to be wolfing.

If Roxy's the doc then it's absolutely just Jack.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:23 pm I've been townreading pyxxy all game and Wilgy insisting that the exe be Scotty or pyxxy (along with Scotty flipping town) suggests that he is very likely just town.

That means the last scum is in Jack/Roxy/Camilla. We have two exes, so if we can clear one of these then we'll have auto.

I'll likely be focusing my play this day on this.

@pyxxy

This is why I added her.

If my PR read is right then town just wins this as if I die today then Jack is locked out of mislynches unless he kills Alison and Roxy misvotes you.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:26 pm .......maybe..............what I was.......trying.......to say.......with my.......PR.......piece.......

.......is that..............putting roxy.......in.......the suspool..............is inherently.......PR hunting.......

..............but.......I don't know.......why.......either.......of you..............would do that.......

.......sus roxy..............I mean..............to me.......that.......only.......makes sense..............with.......scum Alison.......

..............you're both.......clearly.......thunderdoming.......and.......my vote..............is true..............but.....................I'm.......still thinking.......because.......this.......feels..............unresolved.......

............................maybe..............syn.......forgot.......to.......make someone.......the doc.....................

I only put Roxy there because that's what Alison said.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:24 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:20 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:12 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:54 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:48 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:25 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:26 am
why does wolf wilgy flip the coin on his partner winning the dome instead of going "maybe it's not pyx/scotty" to widen the poe like everyone else was?
I'm not really in this world anymore (seeing Scotty as very very likely town) but from the pov of me at the time, I'm agreeing with you.

I'm saying "If Alison is right about w!Wilgy but wrong about him being antialigned with Scotty/Pyxxy, it would require Wilgy to endgame alone or assume his partner wins the dome. I don't think w!Wilgy thinks he will endgame alone so I don't think that's the case. I don't think w!Wilgy assumes his partner, w!Pyxxy, wins the Scotty/Pyxxy dome so I don't think that's the case. Maybe if it's Wilgy+Scotty."

But to your point, if it's Wilgy+Scotty (which I don't think because I think Scotty is town), it would make more sense for Wilgy to not lean into that dome.

And to your point, if it's Wilgy+Pyxxy, it makes even more sense to not lean into that dome.

If POE is Pyxxy/Wilgy/Camilla, it makes more sense to see Wilgy/Camilla as the solve based on this. It's not gonna be based just on this but this could be key.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:27 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:04 am

In a W!Jack world then it doesn't really mean much.

If he's W then he needs two MLs and even if his teammate is in Wilgy/Pyxxy then he just needs to mislynch the villager there then take Scotty/Roxy to the F3 with me for the win.

He doesn't even need to re-open the PoE for a win.
I also just want to believe in a Wilgy/Camilla world because Camilla seems desperate to add people to the POE that shouldn't be in it. On D2, that was Roxy. On D4, it's me. All Camilla's solving around these two slots seems illogical and/or desperate.
These are some actual important parts of my progression fwiw
What's wrong with my D2 wolfread on Roxy?

Her d1 was uninspiring and she only towned up D2. And neither you nor Roxy flipped yet meanwhile all of my TRs like Tutuu/Zenon/Seanzie/Scotty to an extent flipped town as I never had Wilgy in my nigh-towncore area unlike you.
I mean….I guess if you read Roxy’s D1 in the same way you read my D3, where you ignore the obvious townie and go for a wolfy scumread just because, sure, Roxy’s D1 could be considered uninspiring.

But from the perspective of a townie, Roxy’s D1 was outstanding and shiny.
It was a generic readlist and her reasoning on me was fairly cherry-picky and didn't bother to take my IRL into account despite me being less into the game, so I had no reason to TR her.

Maybe someone with TMI could.
I fucking isoed Roxy yesterday and said over and over how obviously townie her posts were and was pissed at all the people who suspected her D2.

You can go back and see this happen. I don’t understand why town Camilla would just assume those posts didn’t happen and that Jack must have tmi and must therefore be a wolf.

Wolf Camilla wants people to think town Jack has tmi for the misyeet. Easy enough. Your actions don’t make any sense as a townie, continually refusing to look at my posts in bad faith.

A WOLF COULD HAVE EASILY DONE THIS BECAUSE BY D3 ROXY WAS CONSIDERED TO BE CONSENSUS TOWN THUS YOU COULD JUST TMI HER AND THEN CHAINSAW ANYONE WHO DARED TO SUSPECT HER. YOUR SLOT DIDN'T EVEN BOTHER TO PLAY THE DAMN GAME UNTIL D3 SO OF COURSE YOU'D HAVE LESS MISSES.

Meanwhile I've been playing since d1 and I've been right on most of my reads execpt Rondo/Falco. And even then D2 I wanted you killed but had to settle for one of the villagers in Rondo/Falcon because this village made them the lead lynches D2

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:19 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:56 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:51 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:20 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:09 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:05 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:59 am Y'know what?

I'm pretty much settled on the Jack/Wilgy world atp.

Jack's basically spending much of his time trying to tie me to Wilgy without giving much attention to the possibility that Pyxxy is a wolf or little paranoia outside of this PoE in a fairly transparent attempt that he knows that once Wilgy flips that the main mountain separating the wolves from winning is that I'll basically go the full Amrock to elim him.

This is basically textbook endgame wolf play to seal the game.
It makes sense too- this perspective. Because Jack wasn’t exactly gunning for Wilgy, and once the tides had changed to that as the possible yeet, he’s keeping options open.

But a wrinkle- he has just reasoned out that the team is just Wilgy/you. Not a lot of wiggle room. What happens when we yeet w!Wilgy and then t!you?
(Ignoring doc atm) After Wilgy, it’ll be 4v1. Miselim on you leads to f3. How does jack win in that scenario?
Because in a Pyxxy/Jack/You or Roxy endgame it's basically extremely easy for a wolf with WiM, which is basically the archetype that Jack is, to shift the elim on Pyxxy.

The guy nearly got chopped d1 and he's kind of been in the PoE and would've died if it was for Alison shielding him. Once Alison's dead he's basically easy pickings.
This is nonsense.

If it's Wilgy/Jack, I'm laying out the argument that Pyxxy and Wilgy are never wolves together.

I bus Wilgy here. Shoot Alison. Then it's Roxy/Camilla/Scotty/Pyxxy vs Jack and I have to misyeet 2 of them. And I'm arguing that Roxy is always town, Scotty is always town and if Wilgy flips wolf (which he's about to), Pyxxy is always town. Roxy earlier today declared her intention to look at/vote for me or Camilla. Scotty earlier voted for me. Pyxxy earlier voted for me iirc.

You're proposing that my master plan is to bus Wilgy, misyeet you, then go into final 3 with two players who suspect me that I have as lock town.

Fucking hell. I'm a good wolf but I ain't that good. I'd lose that every single time.

Total nonsense. You don't think this is what's happening. You're saying things that would be convenient for w!Camilla for townies to believe, not things that t!Camilla would actually believe.
And this.

Like it’s weird that I entirely deconstruct Camilla’s worldview and she just like….hangs onto it for dear life anyway.

Doesn’t really make sense for town Camilla to suspect me and Wilgy. But wolf Camilla knows Wilgy is gonna flip wolf so the only way to get that Jack misyeet is to tie us together, no matter how illogical.
I still don't get why you were so certain Wilgy was going to flip W when he wasn't doing much this entire game.

You basically went Wilgy just outside towncore to him being lock for very little reason. Why?
You keep saying this after it was pointed out how dishonest this framing is.

You can’t make someone understand something if their wincon depends on them not understanding it and I am feeling more and more like you aren’t even pretending to ask these questions in good faith with each passing minute.

If you put Wilgy in your towncore then it'd be suspicious as hell if he flipped since he wasn't doing anything useful. So the best bet for a wolf to do would be put him high in their townreads but not in the towncore to maintain plausible deniability.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:16 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:07 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:05 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:02 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:00 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:57 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:29 pm

What are your thoughts on the idea if the doc's in this pool then they should just claim?

If we miss today and the doc is not NK'd and doesn't claim then the last wolf can just CC them.
.......aight.......so like..............even if.......you're town..............this.......is blatant.......PR hunting.......to anyone.......who's.......been..............paying attention..............to who's PR cleared.......
I have a strong PR read on Roxy.

If she's it then the game's basically auto'd as even if I'm elim'd today then Alison/you can just kill Jack tomorrow without worrying about anything else since you both have each other as TRs.
.......okay so.......I read this.......and.......what my brain.......actually processes.......is that.......you think Alison.......is the doc.......
No?

I've been reading Roxy doc for a while as her "OMG HOW DARE YOU PUSH ME, I WILL TUNNEL YOU FOR THE REST OF THE GAME" attitude feels like your average newb PR who will deathtunnel anyone who dares to wolfread them.
.......@Jackofhearts2005.......I want to watch..............you..............react to this.......
I don’t know who the doc is and I don’t care unless it’s a player taking themselves out of the poe.

PR hunting is for wolves.

I PR hunt as both alignments. If Roxy's the doc then we have a confirmed towny. Alison's basically never a wolf and Pyxxy was hardpushed on by the entire wolfteam. That makes you pretty much the last remaining person who has nothing going for them.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:12 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:54 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:48 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:25 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:26 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:16 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:12 pm
probs not scotty/pyxxy given his eagerness to force there today

Probably just roxy or jack
Hmm. But if I believe my townreads, the solve is Wilgy and one of Scotty/Pyxxy.

And indeed, Alison and Camilla voting Wilgy so (granted, it’s easy for Camilla to switch and winnable for her to bus Wilgy) surely not Alison/Wilgy and less likely to be Camilla/Wilgy.

So is Alison right about w!Wilgy but wrong about Wilgy being antialigned w/Scotty/Pyxxy (requires Wilgy to endgame alone, kinda unlikely, or to assume his partner wins the thunderdome…probably exactly Scotty)?

Or is Alison wrong on Wilgy? And if she’s wrong on Wilgy, what other team even makes sense? A reevaluation on Alison/Camilla necessary if Wilgy is town because I’m town, Roxy is town and Scotty and Pyxxy has max 1 wolf. Literally nowhere else for a wolf to exist. (Also, this line of thinking really leans into Wilgy+Jack world from t!Alison’s pov but it can’t be helped.)
why does wolf wilgy flip the coin on his partner winning the dome instead of going "maybe it's not pyx/scotty" to widen the poe like everyone else was?
I'm not really in this world anymore (seeing Scotty as very very likely town) but from the pov of me at the time, I'm agreeing with you.

I'm saying "If Alison is right about w!Wilgy but wrong about him being antialigned with Scotty/Pyxxy, it would require Wilgy to endgame alone or assume his partner wins the dome. I don't think w!Wilgy thinks he will endgame alone so I don't think that's the case. I don't think w!Wilgy assumes his partner, w!Pyxxy, wins the Scotty/Pyxxy dome so I don't think that's the case. Maybe if it's Wilgy+Scotty."

But to your point, if it's Wilgy+Scotty (which I don't think because I think Scotty is town), it would make more sense for Wilgy to not lean into that dome.

And to your point, if it's Wilgy+Pyxxy, it makes even more sense to not lean into that dome.

If POE is Pyxxy/Wilgy/Camilla, it makes more sense to see Wilgy/Camilla as the solve based on this. It's not gonna be based just on this but this could be key.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:27 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:04 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:33 am I have liked jack's recent solving. Feels thoughtful even if i dont agree with all of it, and forcibly taking roxy and scotty out of his POE would make his life hard and commit him to a very narrow worldview as mafia.
In a W!Jack world then it doesn't really mean much.

If he's W then he needs two MLs and even if his teammate is in Wilgy/Pyxxy then he just needs to mislynch the villager there then take Scotty/Roxy to the F3 with me for the win.

He doesn't even need to re-open the PoE for a win.
I also just want to believe in a Wilgy/Camilla world because Camilla seems desperate to add people to the POE that shouldn't be in it. On D2, that was Roxy. On D4, it's me. All Camilla's solving around these two slots seems illogical and/or desperate.
These are some actual important parts of my progression fwiw
What's wrong with my D2 wolfread on Roxy?

Her d1 was uninspiring and she only towned up D2. And neither you nor Roxy flipped yet meanwhile all of my TRs like Tutuu/Zenon/Seanzie/Scotty to an extent flipped town as I never had Wilgy in my nigh-towncore area unlike you.
I mean….I guess if you read Roxy’s D1 in the same way you read my D3, where you ignore the obvious townie and go for a wolfy scumread just because, sure, Roxy’s D1 could be considered uninspiring.

But from the perspective of a townie, Roxy’s D1 was outstanding and shiny.

It was a generic readlist and her reasoning on me was fairly cherry-picky and didn't bother to take my IRL into account despite me being less into the game, so I had no reason to TR her.

Maybe someone with TMI could.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:02 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 9:00 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:57 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:29 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:23 pm I've been townreading pyxxy all game and Wilgy insisting that the exe be Scotty or pyxxy (along with Scotty flipping town) suggests that he is very likely just town.

That means the last scum is in Jack/Roxy/Camilla. We have two exes, so if we can clear one of these then we'll have auto.

I'll likely be focusing my play this day on this.
What are your thoughts on the idea if the doc's in this pool then they should just claim?

If we miss today and the doc is not NK'd and doesn't claim then the last wolf can just CC them.
.......aight.......so like..............even if.......you're town..............this.......is blatant.......PR hunting.......to anyone.......who's.......been..............paying attention..............to who's PR cleared.......
I have a strong PR read on Roxy.

If she's it then the game's basically auto'd as even if I'm elim'd today then Alison/you can just kill Jack tomorrow without worrying about anything else since you both have each other as TRs.
.......okay so.......I read this.......and.......what my brain.......actually processes.......is that.......you think Alison.......is the doc.......

No?

I've been reading Roxy doc for a while as her "OMG HOW DARE YOU PUSH ME, I WILL TUNNEL YOU FOR THE REST OF THE GAME" attitude feels like your average newb PR who will deathtunnel anyone who dares to wolfread them.

pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:57 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:29 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:23 pm I've been townreading pyxxy all game and Wilgy insisting that the exe be Scotty or pyxxy (along with Scotty flipping town) suggests that he is very likely just town.

That means the last scum is in Jack/Roxy/Camilla. We have two exes, so if we can clear one of these then we'll have auto.

I'll likely be focusing my play this day on this.
What are your thoughts on the idea if the doc's in this pool then they should just claim?

If we miss today and the doc is not NK'd and doesn't claim then the last wolf can just CC them.
.......aight.......so like..............even if.......you're town..............this.......is blatant.......PR hunting.......to anyone.......who's.......been..............paying attention..............to who's PR cleared.......

I have a strong PR read on Roxy.

If she's it then the game's basically auto'd as even if I'm elim'd today then Alison/you can just kill Jack tomorrow without worrying about anything else since you both have each other as TRs.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:51 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:20 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:09 am
Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 11:05 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:59 am Y'know what?

I'm pretty much settled on the Jack/Wilgy world atp.

Jack's basically spending much of his time trying to tie me to Wilgy without giving much attention to the possibility that Pyxxy is a wolf or little paranoia outside of this PoE in a fairly transparent attempt that he knows that once Wilgy flips that the main mountain separating the wolves from winning is that I'll basically go the full Amrock to elim him.

This is basically textbook endgame wolf play to seal the game.
It makes sense too- this perspective. Because Jack wasn’t exactly gunning for Wilgy, and once the tides had changed to that as the possible yeet, he’s keeping options open.

But a wrinkle- he has just reasoned out that the team is just Wilgy/you. Not a lot of wiggle room. What happens when we yeet w!Wilgy and then t!you?
(Ignoring doc atm) After Wilgy, it’ll be 4v1. Miselim on you leads to f3. How does jack win in that scenario?
Because in a Pyxxy/Jack/You or Roxy endgame it's basically extremely easy for a wolf with WiM, which is basically the archetype that Jack is, to shift the elim on Pyxxy.

The guy nearly got chopped d1 and he's kind of been in the PoE and would've died if it was for Alison shielding him. Once Alison's dead he's basically easy pickings.
This is nonsense.

If it's Wilgy/Jack, I'm laying out the argument that Pyxxy and Wilgy are never wolves together.

I bus Wilgy here. Shoot Alison. Then it's Roxy/Camilla/Scotty/Pyxxy vs Jack and I have to misyeet 2 of them. And I'm arguing that Roxy is always town, Scotty is always town and if Wilgy flips wolf (which he's about to), Pyxxy is always town. Roxy earlier today declared her intention to look at/vote for me or Camilla. Scotty earlier voted for me. Pyxxy earlier voted for me iirc.

You're proposing that my master plan is to bus Wilgy, misyeet you, then go into final 3 with two players who suspect me that I have as lock town.

Fucking hell. I'm a good wolf but I ain't that good. I'd lose that every single time.

Total nonsense. You don't think this is what's happening. You're saying things that would be convenient for w!Camilla for townies to believe, not things that t!Camilla would actually believe.
And this.

Like it’s weird that I entirely deconstruct Camilla’s worldview and she just like….hangs onto it for dear life anyway.

Doesn’t really make sense for town Camilla to suspect me and Wilgy. But wolf Camilla knows Wilgy is gonna flip wolf so the only way to get that Jack misyeet is to tie us together, no matter how illogical.

I still don't get why you were so certain Wilgy was going to flip W when he wasn't doing much this entire game.

You basically went Wilgy just outside towncore to him being lock for very little reason. Why?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:48 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:25 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:26 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 7:16 pm
Alison wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:12 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 6:11 pm @Alison

If he's a wolf then who do you think is his most likely partner?

So far pretty much everyone has been TRing him or giving him a pass which basically mean that if he's W then pretty much none of the PoE is cleared.
probs not scotty/pyxxy given his eagerness to force there today

Probably just roxy or jack
Hmm. But if I believe my townreads, the solve is Wilgy and one of Scotty/Pyxxy.

And indeed, Alison and Camilla voting Wilgy so (granted, it’s easy for Camilla to switch and winnable for her to bus Wilgy) surely not Alison/Wilgy and less likely to be Camilla/Wilgy.

So is Alison right about w!Wilgy but wrong about Wilgy being antialigned w/Scotty/Pyxxy (requires Wilgy to endgame alone, kinda unlikely, or to assume his partner wins the thunderdome…probably exactly Scotty)?

Or is Alison wrong on Wilgy? And if she’s wrong on Wilgy, what other team even makes sense? A reevaluation on Alison/Camilla necessary if Wilgy is town because I’m town, Roxy is town and Scotty and Pyxxy has max 1 wolf. Literally nowhere else for a wolf to exist. (Also, this line of thinking really leans into Wilgy+Jack world from t!Alison’s pov but it can’t be helped.)
why does wolf wilgy flip the coin on his partner winning the dome instead of going "maybe it's not pyx/scotty" to widen the poe like everyone else was?
I'm not really in this world anymore (seeing Scotty as very very likely town) but from the pov of me at the time, I'm agreeing with you.

I'm saying "If Alison is right about w!Wilgy but wrong about him being antialigned with Scotty/Pyxxy, it would require Wilgy to endgame alone or assume his partner wins the dome. I don't think w!Wilgy thinks he will endgame alone so I don't think that's the case. I don't think w!Wilgy assumes his partner, w!Pyxxy, wins the Scotty/Pyxxy dome so I don't think that's the case. Maybe if it's Wilgy+Scotty."

But to your point, if it's Wilgy+Scotty (which I don't think because I think Scotty is town), it would make more sense for Wilgy to not lean into that dome.

And to your point, if it's Wilgy+Pyxxy, it makes even more sense to not lean into that dome.

If POE is Pyxxy/Wilgy/Camilla, it makes more sense to see Wilgy/Camilla as the solve based on this. It's not gonna be based just on this but this could be key.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 10:27 am
Camilla wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 2:04 am
Alison wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 1:33 am I have liked jack's recent solving. Feels thoughtful even if i dont agree with all of it, and forcibly taking roxy and scotty out of his POE would make his life hard and commit him to a very narrow worldview as mafia.
In a W!Jack world then it doesn't really mean much.

If he's W then he needs two MLs and even if his teammate is in Wilgy/Pyxxy then he just needs to mislynch the villager there then take Scotty/Roxy to the F3 with me for the win.

He doesn't even need to re-open the PoE for a win.
I also just want to believe in a Wilgy/Camilla world because Camilla seems desperate to add people to the POE that shouldn't be in it. On D2, that was Roxy. On D4, it's me. All Camilla's solving around these two slots seems illogical and/or desperate.
These are some actual important parts of my progression fwiw

What's wrong with my D2 wolfread on Roxy?

Her d1 was uninspiring and she only towned up D2. And neither you nor Roxy flipped yet meanwhile all of my TRs like Tutuu/Zenon/Seanzie/Scotty to an extent flipped town as I never had Wilgy in my nigh-towncore area unlike you.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:32 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:31 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:30 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:24 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:22 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:19 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 9:09 pm Jack/Scotty fits in better as teammates with Wilgy than Pyxxy. I don't think Pyxxy/Wilgy would spend the entire game trying to hellbus each other like this, tbh.

Most likely Jack as I liked Scotty's paranoia on me while Jack's push on me kind of just feels like he's piggy-backing on Roxy's paranoia than actually doing anything to move the game-state forward.
Lul

Classic wolf Jack tactic. Sheep paranoia of low end poster from two days ago.

Moving to a three player poe is moving the gamestate forward. You just don’t like where I’m moving it.
What about Alison/Scotty/Roxy?

There's been very little suspicion on me and you only started turning on me the moment the latter two started to do so.
Suspicion on them, as I meant the three ones. Why me over Scotty/Alison since we've basically been roughly in the same tier until Roxy/Scotty began tinfoiling me.
It’s not about tiers. It’s about Scotty and Alison doing things I expect Scotty and Alison to do as townies and of the three of you, you’ve got the wolfiest reactions, specifically towards Roxy when contrasted with Alison and Scotty and towards me when contrasted with Alison.
I want you to go deeper here.

If Scotty/Alison were wolves then how would you really expect them to act?
If you were looking for additional “wolf Camilla tries to open the poe” posts to go with that “Jack/Scotty makes sense as a wolfteam” post.

Yes, I try to open the PoE by shooting a player that I'm tinfoiling and open to the idea that I'm not the last wolf instead of the obvtown player that's tunneling me.

I'm pretty sure that you have far better critical thinking skills then this, Jack.

Alison wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:23 pm I've been townreading pyxxy all game and Wilgy insisting that the exe be Scotty or pyxxy (along with Scotty flipping town) suggests that he is very likely just town.

That means the last scum is in Jack/Roxy/Camilla. We have two exes, so if we can clear one of these then we'll have auto.

I'll likely be focusing my play this day on this.

What are your thoughts on the idea if the doc's in this pool then they should just claim?

If we miss today and the doc is not NK'd and doesn't claim then the last wolf can just CC them.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:24 pm
Camilla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:19 pm
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:49 pm My current solve is Wilgy and Camilla. But that’s like a fancy pants threadstate+poe read. Pyxxy is still a possibility but I kinda think that if the wolf team is dead Porscha and non impactful Wilgy, like at what point does Pyxxy drop the gd gimmick? Probably earlier. I know this is easy to fake but still.
@pyxxy

This post came after Jack started harping on Wilgy being my wolfmate despite that I voted him and kept my vote there.
Oh was I supposed to stop thinking you were teamed with Wilgy because Alison told you to vote Wilgy and you were like “sure”? You said yourself you didn’t have an opportunity to move off.

Come on, now.

You’re not supposed to play mafia dishonestly.

What about Pyxxy?

Why couldn't I have been with Pyxxy and we were trying to mislynch Wilgy based on Alison's wrong read?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 01, 2023 8:49 pm My current solve is Wilgy and Camilla. But that’s like a fancy pants threadstate+poe read. Pyxxy is still a possibility but I kinda think that if the wolf team is dead Porscha and non impactful Wilgy, like at what point does Pyxxy drop the gd gimmick? Probably earlier. I know this is easy to fake but still.

@pyxxy

This post came after Jack started harping on Wilgy being my wolfmate despite that I voted him and kept my vote there.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2023 8:11 pm Actually, no. Respectfully, the town (or at least the me part of it) gets more out of Camilla going through my yesterday and evaluating my progression on her and Wilgy than it does on me laying it out.

Lol.

Fine.

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