The Syndicate

And yeah, I think that Manny claiming when he did was dumb but unless someone CCs I trust this to be a true claim. Zero reason for him to do that as a wolf, not much more reason to do that as a villager, but knowing Manny's personality I don't think he'd just hoist his team by doing such a fake claim as wolf. As a villager where he feels like he's playing for himself... I think he'd have much less issues. And there's no 3P for who claiming like that would be advantageous.

Anyways, I will go to bed. Hope to see you all on D3, with some more energy and (hopefully) a better game state!

Regardless, we really need to get more out of Epi and TSP or else we are going to lose this. We can't play a game with two unreadable low-posters and expect to win here (unless both are wolves/malign 3Ps but I'm skeptic that we got that lucky).

Sigh... I don't think that I feel NANOOK all that much but I think that Chelsea is townier than Nanook by a mile. Still think that her entrance was great and I've also seen other posts from her regularly that I liked.

I'll leave my vote where it is. Don't think I can get a CW going in the next... minus ten minutes.

Not being around EOD really sucks, as per usual.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:30 pm

LanMisa wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:25 pm My head feels like a vacuum and I'd really love to hear a voice, any voice, to get me back to sanity.

Right now I feel like no matter what I do it's going to be the wrong decision and it feels very paralyzing...

The issue is that I don't know where else I'd want to go and the other options in terms of who are wagons aren't as appealing to me since most of them are townreads.

Like only one I'd switch to is Epi or LC again since I don't townread either but you do with one and the other is just posting signs and if that's wrong then we make 0 progress with this game.

I mean, I will go to bed very soon so my stance really doesn't matter much since I won't be able to influence EOD in any way, shape or form. I just think that Long Con showed enough townyness D1 for now. Epi feels fine though, since I think this will be an eternal null and we do need to solve these eventually.

I guess ultimately my vote doesn't matter much as a result and I am overthinking this but... I really need a good night's rest.

My head feels like a vacuum and I'd really love to hear a voice, any voice, to get me back to sanity.

Right now I feel like no matter what I do it's going to be the wrong decision and it feels very paralyzing...

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:06 pm Fine with Nanook wagon. Could possibly join on Manny to make things spicy, but also feeling good with my vote where it is.

Do you think that it matters that the NANOOK wagon barely moved/changed over several hours? I'm wary of this being Sig all over again.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:11 pm The more I think about it, the more I wonder if we're in a Brad/Chelsea t/w world.

I think that regardless of Chelsea's alignment, yeeting Chelsea over/before Brad is going to create one very angry customer for us.

I also don't feel like going Chelsea today.

I'm not sure if I still feel NANOOK. Wagon was super stale for hours and hours, which makes me think that it's a miss, and while he only sprinkled in a very small number of game posts, looking at how the others are playing, I am almost willing to give it a pass. Am I dumb? Most likely. Should I play while this tired? Absolutely not.

TSP is even worse in terms of lack of content and nobody seems to talk/think about them right now, which is a stark contrast to Nanook unless I am missing something. Epi also seems to be given a free pass for a similar amount of not much.

Chelsea wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 6:34 pm Are we really living in a world where the wolfteam would've just. . .made sure to not claim that?

Like, I get wifom but there's a limit, right?

Sorry, what exactly do you mean here? My reading comprehension is ass right now.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 5:46 pm It's actually higher because mafia watcher is guaranteed to exist and town isn't guaranteed to have one but that's too much math for me

Anyways

We don't play in a vacuum yada yada I just want to make sure people are engaging with the mechanics if they're going to defend manny rather than just being able to write it off as "well he's town because he claimed, duh"

Cause if he ends up being mafia that's just too easy of a way to skate through for his partners

I don't necessarily agree with the read (it may be fatigue talking here) but NANOOK feels kinda involved and solving here.

This may not be the way to go forward.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 4:45 pm

MacDougall wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 4:15 pm [VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine

What’s that Lassie? You need to be spayed?

Manny’s claim ain’t great considering we know wolves have a tracker and why would the town watcher like out a role targeting Seanzie?

Tinfoil hat says my Manny/Falcon w/w read is just right but I don’t actually have that much faith in that read.

That's a dumb read, by doing that he'd throw his partner under the bus harder than [insert something funny here]. Either his prolonged survival alerts town or he dies to a 3P, but once the jig was up the wolves would be reduced to one.

Manny wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 4:02 pm

Manny wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 4:01 pm Falcon visited you which is why i've been townreading him lol, dont see any point for wolves to act on u.

if im right on the read this just outs another town pr but
not like i can deny claiming without making it more likely to be yeeted, kinda wish i had gotten nothing of my role ngl

Hm... I guess I want to hear what Falcon has to say about this matter first. This could be anything from town to mafia to 3P arsonist as far as I understand the roles in play here.

Manny wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 3:56 pm

Manny wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 3:52 pm I wonder what are the odds i get wagoned at eod considering i prolly wont be up for it.

Hardclaim Town Enclave Remnants [aka Town PR].

Im prolly consensus scumread enough that makes forcing wolves to self-resolve my ass at night worth it + i think its somewhat likely i might actually die today without claiming cuz Mac is still stuck on me!wolf apparently

Acknowledged; I had a "potential PR" read on you since D1 so this isn't surprising by itself; what is surprising is the timing which doesn't make sense to me considering that you didn't seem to be in any danger from what I can tell.

Chelsea wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 3:37 pm

LanMisa wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 3:36 pm

Chelsea wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 3:33 pm It's crazy how many times I need to reword my statement because Sean can just find a creative way of not answering me that makes me want to smash my face into a wall call it town and then never speak on it again.

But maybe I should just go take lunch first.

I see that the two of you have an argument here but I don't feel like my brain has enough power to process it for now. Too much text, too many names. I'll try to have a look into it tomorrow and get back to it on D3.

I do still feel like many of Sean's posts since D2 started have been very deep and towny though, so if that's the point of debate this is my stance on it.

No, I've also come away from the conversation that has me moving Sean up on my reads list but it feels like I have to pull out my teeth just to get an attempt at the answer I'm looking for.

In that case I will leave it for tomorrowLan to read. Sunday's also a day and I feel like I can use my time in a more meaningful way later.

Yeah, I feel like my mind needs a break. Sorry for not being at my top level right now. I'll try to get back in two hours or three, will definitely be back at some point.

I am not sure what the staleness of both NANOOK's and Lime's wagons means for us. It's hard to believe we got so lucky and found two wolves at the same time. I'm not a fan of it after we sleepyeeted into Sig (I know I was part of it, I am not happy about it) and I wonder if we are doing the same thing again.

I also wonder why pressuring NANOOK found so many fans whereas TSP also ditched us and got no flak so far including that very insightful one-liner I cited earlier. I hope it's not just because people sheep me; if they do I want the people who know my meta to remind others that me being town is also equivalent to me being wrong. If people have thoughts about Tony I'd love to hear them.

While I still think that Creature's D1 speaks for itself I am not as whelmed by the D2, the few posts looked good by themselves but... I wish there was more volume, I guess? Still would never go for Creature today.

Dunn, Sean, Scotty all feel reasonably towny from today (and/or yesterday), Creature and Long Con feel towny from yesterday, Chelsea I have a similar read on compared to the latter two but weaker. Falcon seemed semi reasonable earlier in direct conversation but it's very light and not something I consider unfakeable, it wasn't on the level of my Long Con interactions by a mile, for example.

I won't vote for Mac today either since I don't trust my judgement right now.

Will be back with more thinking later.

Chelsea wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 3:33 pm It's crazy how many times I need to reword my statement because Sean can just find a creative way of not answering me that makes me want to smash my face into a wall call it town and then never speak on it again.

But maybe I should just go take lunch first.

I see that the two of you have an argument here but I don't feel like my brain has enough power to process it for now. Too much text, too many names. I'll try to have a look into it tomorrow and get back to it on D3.

I do still feel like many of Sean's posts since D2 started have been very deep and towny though, so if that's the point of debate this is my stance on it.

Manny wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:11 pm

Chelsea wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:10 pm You believe I'm a wolf, you should be asking yourself if you think wolf me hard defends my partner or I'm spewing Brad town.

im actually living in both v!chels and w!chels worlds at the same time.
If i was locked on you wolf i would be hard deathtunneling u lol.
But i feel like u not being 100% locked on a Brad read is kinda worrying but i dunno if its worrying for ur allignment or brad's

Sorry, I know I should interact/play with you more here (if only time permitted it...) but I will give you one response at least:

Would you call this Schroedinger's Chelsea?

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 1:26 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 12:24 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 12:23 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 12:17 pm Out of date rainbow for Seanzie

TOWN
LC
Epi (not gonna explain this one til it matters for reasons)

TOWNISH
Seanzie
Lime
Mac

NO CLUE
Dunn
Tony
Manny
Nook
Falcon
Chelsea
Creature

SCUMISH
Scotty
LanMisa


Don’t take anything but the LC and Epi reads to the bank just yet.

Even if I don't take it to the bank, can you say something about Scotty and LanMisa? These are reads that are pretty far removed from what I'd consider the thread consensus (especially the LanMisa read).

I didn’t like their long running D1 interaction. Looked fake. Looked like they weren’t trying to read each other. Don’t take it to the bank cause like they have a lot of other content I haven’t looked at.

Wait, you’re calling us scummish because we didn’t really interact D1?

The hell kinda read is that? I think I didn’t interact with you either. By that logic, you should be in the same pile

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine

Lol, I really like playing with you Scotty.

Yes, I also don't understand the method of insanity behind Jack's play so far.

The more I read the more I find people towny. Help!

Read some Chelsea posts at the bottom of page 29 that I liked and I feel like I am in the mood where I just like every post from every player that posts in a semi-coherent and reasonable way and that feels quite counter-productive.

I'm also unsure what that says about the status quo and the wolves this game. Are the wolves the people who don't try? Are the wolves very deep? Did I misread my rolecard? Was it all a lie since everyone is wolfy in some way in the Fallout games?

(Don't mind me, physical exhaustion does not make my brain go do work well stuff words meaning?)

TonyStarkPrime wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 12:26 pm pretty serious on the chelsea vote tbh

I'm sure that you have a long explanation for that one stance that you seem to have?

Like, with all of that insightful analysis you gave here it's...challenging to figure out why you came to that conclusion and how much merit it has.

Fair warning, the spoiler is HUGE and contains three posts from Dunnstral that are more or less back-to-back good posts which I really like. Combs the game, Dunn's reactions feel insightful as well, these are just pretty good posts.

Dunn may be town now, I guess I am starting to see Scotty's "locktown or deepwolf" stance (or rather the first part of it).

Seanzie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:10 am

Manny wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:00 am Interesting drop in my position but tbf i did kinda ignore ur question

Ignoring my question isn't great, but it is more a broad pattern - you're throwing out a few weak associative reads, and then doing a lot of things that look more like performance than solving (e.g. you looking for something from me and you having a townread on Falcon you won't say anything about - these things could LOOK like you're doing stuff behind the scenes, but I'm not seeing evidence of it, and I don't give points for behind the scenes work). You suggesting me vs brad as a diff check I also think was scummy. There isn't a me vs Brad. Brad isn't pushing me (he has me on his "I don't townread" list, but you can look at how he interacts with me and tell that he doesn't see scum!Seanzie, at least IMO, and Mac noticed this as well), and a reasonably large portion of the thread has Brad south-of-null. Thinking that there is still a Me vs Brad kind of suggests your worldview likely hasn't updated much since yesterday, which is not great.

If there is some reason I should have you higher, I am all ears. I'd be happy to hear from your side on these things, or just... some reads from you with reasoning (I prefer non-associative - I take almost no stock in associative reads until we see actual wolf flips) would help me figure out if you're where you belong or not.

Yeah, I feel like Seanzie is really getting their groove on right now.

Long Con wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 7:55 am Okay. So I went from "players I don't explicitly townread" list, to "everyone come on, vote Long Con!!" without a single reason why. It's like you just picked a name from your list and just *decided* to try and get a wagon started.

I think you're done here, other LC. [VOTE: Lime Coke] aubergine

I get that sentiment but I am leaning towards Lime being on a towny mental breakdown rather than a wolfy one.

Chelsea wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:57 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:56 pm Eyes glazing over at Chelsea post. Where’s the good news part?

Scotty probably isn't a villager. :^)

Unless you have mechanical evidence for that stance I will keep hard debunking this for as long as I am part of the game.

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 4:57 am

Lime Coke wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 4:50 am Bleh

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

In that case vote goes here.

@Chelsea @Manny @LanMisa @Scotty @Jackofhearts2005

Okay new direction.

If y'all have any reason to townread him, please tell me why.

If you don't townread him, please vote here.

For what it's worth I saw your string of posts about your outrage towards Mac and it felt emotionally believable, the posts prior to this one. I am leaning you town now but I am still unsure if you staying in a game that causes you lots of rage is good for your state of mind.

Answering the question, I had a rather good interaction with Long Con at the end of D1 where Long Con was a null prior to this. It felt natural, like we were actively trying to figure each other out in a believable way. Now I HAVE been snowed by personal interactions before (High KP game being at the very front where I spared a wolf and never suspected the final one either due to likeability factor) but it's not somewhere I am willing to go right now.

Okay, I double-checked and apparently I had made 60 posts yesterday, so I got over a 50 more to go.

Not gonna lie, it felt to me like I had a lot more of them but maybe it's just that a lot of the earlier ones felt draining.

Dunnstral wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 11:39 am

Spoiler: show

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:18 am Also, I have no idea if bolding the quoted did anything there, so I was referring to the "I find it hard to find the stances [...]" sentence. I don't understand it on a grammatical level.

It does something but is very hard to notice.

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:04 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:00 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:30 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:28 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:23 am

Manny wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:22 am I think falcon is way more likely than not villa btw.
I still think Lan is an IC
Mac and Creature can still be town

I kinda wanna kill Chels but im too much of a coward to actually push that today so i'd settle for TSP or Epi ig.

Thoughts on Mac and Chelsea?

Also I see falcon being floated around, falcon completely fell below my radar so far, but then again so did TSP and (for a long time) Sig and... too many others.

You can find me on sonar or lidar, but I am immune to radio waves

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

These are some good points you are bringing up, I think you are likely to be town this game based on this and previous posts I've liked. Or third party.

I'll point out that my self meta was other people asking me how I play as town and me responding to it.

Thanks. Also, yeah, this is how it sounded when Falcon talked about that self-meta take of yours.

Put some of the extra bits in spoilers for readability.

NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME wrote: ↑Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:15 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:44 pm

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:37 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:16 am

Spoiler: show

My brain is unable to process the bolded part of your statement. Like, I literally do not understand what the sentence is supposed to say.

Scotty has shown several instances of both making and adjusting reads in a very natural and believable way, especially on D1. Since I haven't been in the game with him as much in D2 (or at all, I believe?) D2 has left less of an expression on me but I remember liking his entrance. It felt natural, like he was trying to both factor in the night actions and flips in a believable way. And I didn't get the impression of any of that being a wolf agenda - what exactly gave you that feeling?

But yeah, I do think that TSP needs to show us more and Falcon already has a pressure wagon, from what I can see, and is actively posting.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

Please come join us, we'd like to hear your input!

I think TSP should come and join, but honestly out of the people who IMO are not giving enough content, they're actually on the low-end of worry. This is mostly meta, but this TSP doesn't give me the same notes as the wolf!TSP that will pretend like they don't care about a game. This TSP I think is actually just not engaged.

Out of the people who I would really like to see more of, from most concerning to least concerning I think is:
Nanook
Jack
Falcon
TSP

Creature could possibly go on this list as well, but their ISO did have some spots that looked very town!Creature-y (even though I have definitely seen him do some solving as wolf!Creature), and Falcon I just haven't actually attempted to read, so meh, his place on this list might be more due to me than him. Nanook IMO stands above the rest since some things he has done is IMO strongly associated with how Nanook sometimes wolfs.

Cut out some previous posts for better readability and spoilered a bit that's irrelevant to your points:

I don't think that I have enough TSP meta apart from "competent player" to make a meaningful meta read here. I do agree that Nanook's previous showing is concerning and I would like to pressure him a bit more as well. Jack and Falcon...Jack has volume, Falcon had some posts towards me that felt okay enough for now, but not unfakeable either? Both are on my reread list.

Creature...I stand by my statement of Creature being extremely towny D1. I am concerned that he hasn't come back to play yet but I am not sure if I want to go there today unless he literally zero posts this phase (meaning: zero game related posts). Since I'm not going to be around for EOD I'd give him a pass for today and I just hope that he can dissolve my worries once he comes back.

[VOTE: NANOOKTHE[...]] aubergine

I would like to see a bit more content from you, if possible.

Anything is possible if you believe hard enough in the power of imagination

I hope that I will find more during my backreading than just an off comment evading the topic.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 6:34 pm

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:07 pm

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:26 pm

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:36 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:10 am I haven't read the whole game but I read enough to get to confidence with these reads. I also actually think Epignosis has kind of softed himself as the Courierrole but I'm not really 3p hunting because frankly it does not comply with how I read games in that I sort people by the level of believability in the choices they make.

Which now that I have articulated, kind of ... makes me see Chelsea ever so slightly more favourably. And also Creature. So I suppose I could call them upper POE, with Jack, Bradley and Falcon as the lower POE.

Okay, so imagine me being on page 21, seeing you make more reasonable posts, playing much more akin to how I'd expect you to play as town, having a take on Chelsea that got me thinking (alongside Scotty's take the page before)... and then you drop the bolded and I'm back to shaking my head. Like, what is this kind of post going to achieve here? Are you wolfing or are you just intentionally trying to stay alive longer by acting wolfy between solving?

Trying to figure you out is most likely going to be the most frustrating experience in this game. You switch so hard between extremely wolfy and very towny, sometimes between pages... I really have no idea where I should sort you.

Gonna leave the vote for now while I read more posts but... I feel like I need to see your flip this game before I feel safe to put you into any category this time.

Going against the grain Mac hunting feels towny. I think you’re town.

Mac doesn’t come off as wolfy to me atm. Granted, I feel like I’ve only played a few games with wolf Mac and he seemed more chaotic, but that was a bit ago now.

I'll...not go there today(this phase), I am clearly biased at that point, but getting bullied in broad daylight does that to you.

A bit unfortunate that we seem to have missed each other this phase so far, I was looking forward to do some solving together in real-time.

It’s ok, I’m sure we’ll have a chance to talk tomorrow

Unless we die

But nah, that would be too easy

Ah, sorry, I meant that as in today (Saturday).

I'm back but it was a tiring experience, so I am not all that attentive right now.

Anyways, I can read in my own posts that I ended up getting into a depressed mood so I'll end stuff here for tonight.

Reminder that I will be away for more than 20 hours from this post. I will be either in a car or active as a referee so I won't be able to post or read anything here (my mobile phone ISP is awful).

Ping me or quote me if there's something you guys think I should have a look at, I will try to get through as much stuff as possible once I get back.

Like, f we yeet Lime and Lime flips wolf... I would hardly enjoy killing a wolf like THAT, if you know what I mean.

I mean, if he's a wolf we literally have to, but... yeah. I just dislike the current status quo. It's unfun.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:28 pm

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:18 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:13 pm

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:36 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:27 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:04 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:00 am

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

1. Yes, and I find Epi does exactly what he's doing now when he's wolf, passively engages the thread in a way that makes him difficult to read

2. Yes, but w/ varying degrees of accuracy, as it can be difficult for ourselves to actually understand our own meta.
2A. That's exactly my point
2B. No

3. Nothing, I've not skimmed much outside of the aggro stuff

That looks...reasonable I guess? Would love to see you give a bit deeper of an insight on Lime though; considering that Lime seems to be the main talking point of D2 so far.

Ya know, I might, just cuz' you asked so nice

Sean's early take re: Maf Lime being afraid to engage isn't part of his meta that I'm aware of, so I prodded Lime

His response seems like foreshadowing now re: mods, and looking at his early posting, I'm not seeing any real engagement w/ anyone in a way that suggests he's actually trying to solve

Hm, okay, I can kind of see that. I'm also unsure about how to proceed with someone who felt earlier like wanting to be hoisted; players giving up feels a bit disheartening regardless of their alignment.

Thanks for taking your time to answer my questions, Falcon. Anything you want to ask me, for a change?

Yeah actually...

Why do you care if Maf give up?

I want them to be disheartened, and it feels like you're more concerned about Lime's feelings than his alignment...what is your actual read on his slot?

That is....actually a very good question, to be honest.

Not gonna lie, I'm a bit torn on Lime Coke. I had my issues with Lime and voiced them yesterday, the lack of wolf reads or suspicions Lime went off on when I was looking I think I talked about (Imagine not having the memory of a goldfish!). And I have no idea what Lime even tried to accomplish today, with Chelsea=godtier villager, Sean=personal nemesis and his dying wish.

Let me phrase it like that: I don't know at this point if Lime should be allowed to play if Lime themselves lost their will to fight. Either they are a wolf or a liability, in a way, since someone who is defeatist rarely develops reads or pushes the game forwards. But at the same time... we more or less ended up in a similar situation with Sig yesterday and look where that got us.

Why do I find that unfortunate regardless of Lime's alignment? I play to have fun and hang out with friends in a special environment, so to say. I play to win, that much should be obvious, but to me, winning holds no meaning if people leave frustrated or dejected over things that don't have to do with things that are directly mechanics-related (like, getting yeeted sucks, so does losing, but that's something you accept when playing). Seeing Lime apparently being out of it (and in a similar but less strong way: Manny) is just making the game less enjoyable for myself as well.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:13 pm

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:36 pm

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:27 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:04 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:00 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:30 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:28 am


You can find me on sonar or lidar, but I am immune to radio waves

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

1. Yes, and I find Epi does exactly what he's doing now when he's wolf, passively engages the thread in a way that makes him difficult to read

2. Yes, but w/ varying degrees of accuracy, as it can be difficult for ourselves to actually understand our own meta.
2A. That's exactly my point
2B. No

3. Nothing, I've not skimmed much outside of the aggro stuff

That looks...reasonable I guess? Would love to see you give a bit deeper of an insight on Lime though; considering that Lime seems to be the main talking point of D2 so far.

Ya know, I might, just cuz' you asked so nice

Sean's early take re: Maf Lime being afraid to engage isn't part of his meta that I'm aware of, so I prodded Lime

His response seems like foreshadowing now re: mods, and looking at his early posting, I'm not seeing any real engagement w/ anyone in a way that suggests he's actually trying to solve

Hm, okay, I can kind of see that. I'm also unsure about how to proceed with someone who felt earlier like wanting to be hoisted; players giving up feels a bit disheartening regardless of their alignment.

Thanks for taking your time to answer my questions, Falcon. Anything you want to ask me, for a change?

Mac, just one post since staying on that topic is doing good for nobody:

It is clearly obvious that there is a vast divide between what you consider too much/offensive and what I consider offensive.
I had asked you more than once to stop since you crossed that line for me.
When you didn't stop I tried to take the high road by leaving since I felt myself to be really close to retaliating in a way I couldn't take back and which would have made the game extremely toxic for everyone involved.
What I could see is that you tried to browbeat me into coming back, blaming me for leaving and more or less continuing in the same way.

I consider my well-being and mental sanity as more important than winning or losing a game.

I want to work with you, not against you, but I refuse to do so on terms that are harmful towards myself.

If we manage to get back to being civil and understanding instead of mocking, demeaning and ignoring the other I am certain that we can still have a great game together.

However, if that is impossible, I will completely ignore you for the rest of the game, for the sake of the both of us. I do not want to lash out or act out and I already feel bad about how I personally acted earlier.

And that's not negotiable.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:26 pm

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:36 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:10 am I haven't read the whole game but I read enough to get to confidence with these reads. I also actually think Epignosis has kind of softed himself as the Courierrole but I'm not really 3p hunting because frankly it does not comply with how I read games in that I sort people by the level of believability in the choices they make.

Which now that I have articulated, kind of ... makes me see Chelsea ever so slightly more favourably. And also Creature. So I suppose I could call them upper POE, with Jack, Bradley and Falcon as the lower POE.

Okay, so imagine me being on page 21, seeing you make more reasonable posts, playing much more akin to how I'd expect you to play as town, having a take on Chelsea that got me thinking (alongside Scotty's take the page before)... and then you drop the bolded and I'm back to shaking my head. Like, what is this kind of post going to achieve here? Are you wolfing or are you just intentionally trying to stay alive longer by acting wolfy between solving?

Trying to figure you out is most likely going to be the most frustrating experience in this game. You switch so hard between extremely wolfy and very towny, sometimes between pages... I really have no idea where I should sort you.

Gonna leave the vote for now while I read more posts but... I feel like I need to see your flip this game before I feel safe to put you into any category this time.

Going against the grain Mac hunting feels towny. I think you’re town.

Mac doesn’t come off as wolfy to me atm. Granted, I feel like I’ve only played a few games with wolf Mac and he seemed more chaotic, but that was a bit ago now.

I'll...not go there today(this phase), I am clearly biased at that point, but getting bullied in broad daylight does that to you.

A bit unfortunate that we seem to have missed each other this phase so far, I was looking forward to do some solving together in real-time.

Creature wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:55 pm Good afternoon

How are we doing?

Mostly tired.

Looking forward to seeing your stances on what has happened today so far, let me know once you've made some reads and/or observations so that we can talk about them.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 1:24 pm

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 9:24 am

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 12:10 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Feb 15, 2024 11:14 pm @Scotty give me your top 3 town please.

@Seanzie yours too please.

I should mention because I was thinking of Seanzie- he would’ve been a GREAT vig target.

If we had a vig, I would have assumed they would’ve shot yesterday. I do not think we have a vig (this is all based on how I would play of course)

Anyway, 3 town? Hmmmmm

So I did some thinking in the night and Dunnstral should be town, but I’m actually thinking they could be exactly a deepwolf in the making. The way they were pocketing me was very smooth and I chalked it up to me just being town as shit yesterday (I know, I know, only a few groupies agreed) but I think I might be getting it all wrong. Might be. Too scared to vote there tho.

That didn’t answer your question.

LanMila had some good back and forth. Not tooo blendy, and not scared to make reads.
Ironically, I think you came out of yesterday being pretty towny. I’ve flip flopped on you in my head and will probably do so as the day goes on, but for now you’re town to me.

I was coming around on Creature. He has emerged in the back half of the day as someone I wouldn’t mind borrowing my sugar

Hi, Scotty, I think I asked you yesterday already but I'd like your help in building a stance on Dunnstral who flies a bit under my personal radar. I see that you read him off of personal interactions, which is something I tend to do as well, but do you have experience with Dunn? Like, you are afraid of a potential deep wolf but have you seen Dunn take such strategies before or is that a general "I don't want to be snowed" stance?

Like, I get the aspect of questioning everything but being too paranoid can destroy town cohesiveness.

Yeah, I getcha.

I’ve never played with Dunn (or you for that matter) so personal feeling is all I’ve got.

Dunnstral is hitting all the right notes. Isn’t afraid to ask pointed questions. In some ways, has been parroting my thought process in their own way. All of that rings town to me.
On the other hand, because I don’t know them as a player I’m putting up a shield because of how smooth they are. I’m putting up this tinfoil now because I think if they’re town, and we start producing I’ll feel better. But if they’re still alive after a couple phases, it might be time to reassess

Ah, yeah, that's a fair stance. If we do get into a situation where we are clearly on the wrong path everything needs to be re-evaluated anyways. Let's do our best to not let it get there.

Seanzie wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:37 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:16 am

Spoiler: show

My brain is unable to process the bolded part of your statement. Like, I literally do not understand what the sentence is supposed to say.

Scotty has shown several instances of both making and adjusting reads in a very natural and believable way, especially on D1. Since I haven't been in the game with him as much in D2 (or at all, I believe?) D2 has left less of an expression on me but I remember liking his entrance. It felt natural, like he was trying to both factor in the night actions and flips in a believable way. And I didn't get the impression of any of that being a wolf agenda - what exactly gave you that feeling?

But yeah, I do think that TSP needs to show us more and Falcon already has a pressure wagon, from what I can see, and is actively posting.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

Please come join us, we'd like to hear your input!

I think TSP should come and join, but honestly out of the people who IMO are not giving enough content, they're actually on the low-end of worry. This is mostly meta, but this TSP doesn't give me the same notes as the wolf!TSP that will pretend like they don't care about a game. This TSP I think is actually just not engaged.

Out of the people who I would really like to see more of, from most concerning to least concerning I think is:
Nanook
Jack
Falcon
TSP

Creature could possibly go on this list as well, but their ISO did have some spots that looked very town!Creature-y (even though I have definitely seen him do some solving as wolf!Creature), and Falcon I just haven't actually attempted to read, so meh, his place on this list might be more due to me than him. Nanook IMO stands above the rest since some things he has done is IMO strongly associated with how Nanook sometimes wolfs.

Cut out some previous posts for better readability and spoilered a bit that's irrelevant to your points:

I don't think that I have enough TSP meta apart from "competent player" to make a meaningful meta read here. I do agree that Nanook's previous showing is concerning and I would like to pressure him a bit more as well. Jack and Falcon...Jack has volume, Falcon had some posts towards me that felt okay enough for now, but not unfakeable either? Both are on my reread list.

Creature...I stand by my statement of Creature being extremely towny D1. I am concerned that he hasn't come back to play yet but I am not sure if I want to go there today unless he literally zero posts this phase (meaning: zero game related posts). Since I'm not going to be around for EOD I'd give him a pass for today and I just hope that he can dissolve my worries once he comes back.

[VOTE: NANOOKTHE[...]] aubergine

I would like to see a bit more content from you, if possible.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:27 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:04 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:00 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:30 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:28 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:23 am

Manny wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:22 am I think falcon is way more likely than not villa btw.
I still think Lan is an IC
Mac and Creature can still be town

I kinda wanna kill Chels but im too much of a coward to actually push that today so i'd settle for TSP or Epi ig.

Thoughts on Mac and Chelsea?

Also I see falcon being floated around, falcon completely fell below my radar so far, but then again so did TSP and (for a long time) Sig and... too many others.

You can find me on sonar or lidar, but I am immune to radio waves

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

1. Yes, and I find Epi does exactly what he's doing now when he's wolf, passively engages the thread in a way that makes him difficult to read

2. Yes, but w/ varying degrees of accuracy, as it can be difficult for ourselves to actually understand our own meta.
2A. That's exactly my point
2B. No

3. Nothing, I've not skimmed much outside of the aggro stuff

That looks...reasonable I guess? Would love to see you give a bit deeper of an insight on Lime though; considering that Lime seems to be the main talking point of D2 so far.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:17 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 9:38 pm

I wanna keep this around, if only because I want to hear more about Scotty brand toilet paper.

Summarizing Epi’s reads:
-he trusts LanMila and we should sheep that
-Lime Coke had his spats with Seanzie and I and we should keep Lime Coke around
-War never changes

At least that’s what I got out of it

I'm honestly but positively surprised that you can decipher all of that. One issue is that the low volume also doesn't really tell us if any of these reads come and go; I remember seeing that read on me early D1 and... quite a bit of time has passed since then.

Okay, I'm back from training but I'm still aggravated from the earlier exchange. Fuck it, Mac, this is a game, not an ego measuring content.

[VOTE: Unvote ] aubergine

Also, my apologies for spitevoting, it's unbecoming of me and also the reason I left thread immediately: Getting heated up here is only going to help the wolves since it keeps distracting me from playing the game properly - and that is true irregardless of Mac's alignment.

I'm tired from earlier and from training but I'll try to read through the pings at least and answer any questions if they came up.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:23 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:21 am

Manny wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:19 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:17 am I bet hard that he's one of the 3ps and probably exactly the courier.

I can also just shrug kill Tony not like he has done much to make me think he's town.
i dunno wether its ev+ to kill 3p now or later

If you start thinking too hard about 3Ps you forget that this is still a game of Mafia vs town and ultimately Mafia needs to remove the 3P in order to win.

(Of course, if we speedyeet two mafia in a row we may want to think about the situation harder but D2 after a town yeet is hardly the time.)

Oh I see you reacted like me reading Epi as the courier was ridiculous because it's you. Makes sense now. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[VOTE: MacDougall] aubergine

Even my patience is limited.

Come back once sober and reflect on your actions. If you want to be a massive dick, be it somewhere else.

Manny wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:19 am

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:17 am I bet hard that he's one of the 3ps and probably exactly the courier.

I can also just shrug kill Tony not like he has done much to make me think he's town.
i dunno wether its ev+ to kill 3p now or later

If you start thinking too hard about 3Ps you forget that this is still a game of Mafia vs town and ultimately Mafia needs to remove the 3P in order to win.

(Of course, if we speedyeet two mafia in a row we may want to think about the situation harder but D2 after a town yeet is hardly the time.)

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:16 am

Manny wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:13 am I dont really see what the fuck does w!Mac get by pissing off v!Lan so ill just call it townie and move on.
Nanook said he likes me so now i feel personally motivated to give him a day pass even though thats prolly ev-

He got pissed off by my towniest content so I figured if I made some terrible content he might townread me.

If I had known I'd encounter someone trying to argue me into a fistfight midgame I wouldn't have joined.

Also, I have no idea if bolding the quoted did anything there, so I was referring to the "I find it hard to find the stances [...]" sentence. I don't understand it on a grammatical level.

Chelsea wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:07 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:00 am

Chelsea wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:57 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:28 am

Chelsea wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:51 am Falcon I just want to play more, it's the slot you probably want to vig shoot over exeing because there's just nothing in it. The can't make lylo player until they post well. . .any opinion. (Curious as I wasn't expecting Lime and Dunnstral to also be on here. Did Dunn's LHF clause only count for D1?)

I have Longcon as a villager because they're not wolf with Mac or Scotty and if both those slots are a villager with how high volume of their. . .confidence we're in trouble. (I think Scotty's wolf equality is pretty high though) Independent of that the convo with Lanmisa felt pretty good so yeah.

While I do feel okay with your catchup that I saw so far I don't see a Scotty wolf world here and I think that basing a read off of pre-flip associations is iffy.

I agree with Long Con's approach to me being towny though.

Also, the post after you went "TSP or Falcon, then Scotty or Sean" and I cannot follow that kind of logic. Would you do that regardless of who dies D2 and regardless of their alignment or...?

I think TSP and Falcon need to post more to get any sort of read on them (although others think they've posted enough take it as you will)

I think Sean and Scotty have had bad posts in general. Does that explain it?

Which posts from Scotty are bad? I see nothing but forward-thinking and solving posts from Scotty and I disagree hard with that stance.

I agree with Sean (talked about that yesterday enough) but got a more neutral feeling at the end of yesterday.

What makes TSP/Falcon different from Sean (not Scotty) with regards how you want to tackle them phase-wise?

I don't think solving posts in and of themselves are towny, and they certainly aren't where I play from. I've seen this statement tossed out by more than just you but unless a player is extremely polarized the amount of solving posts they make has nothing when actions and results also need to be taken account for. Let us just assume for example I am getting snowed by wolf!Lime (and that's giving a lot of BTOD) I think a lot of Scotty's posting has been very wolf-agenda coded. Esp early posting.

i find it hard to find the stances they've taken this game believable considering the 2 main wagons yall ended up on and then now are deciding "ah yes we must simply follow the same outlook." There's almost no sense of what feels to me genuine reflection or town trying to figure out the game. If you have really good reasons to TR them I'd like to hear it.


You can have low posts and still be wolfy and while I feel TSP/Falcon had next to 0 AI posts Sean's posting clearly had some attempts to them. I need more from TSP/Falcon to general to get a read on them, I don't with Sean.

My brain is unable to process the bolded part of your statement. Like, I literally do not understand what the sentence is supposed to say.

Scotty has shown several instances of both making and adjusting reads in a very natural and believable way, especially on D1. Since I haven't been in the game with him as much in D2 (or at all, I believe?) D2 has left less of an expression on me but I remember liking his entrance. It felt natural, like he was trying to both factor in the night actions and flips in a believable way. And I didn't get the impression of any of that being a wolf agenda - what exactly gave you that feeling?

But yeah, I do think that TSP needs to show us more and Falcon already has a pressure wagon, from what I can see, and is actively posting.

[VOTE: TonyStarkPrime] aubergine

Please come join us, we'd like to hear your input!

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:05 am Nah Lan is town I'm just gonna chalk their suspicion on me up to temporary insanity tbh.

I'm not laughing.

I also don't understand an obsession with an early-phase vote that I clearly stated would only be temporary since I am still very much on the fence regarding you.

You are not helping with my concentration either since I am fighting myself hard right now not to just leave it as a policy vote.


Unrelated to that all, I feel like Nanook and TSP need more fire below their butts. I'm also feeling unsatisfied with falcon's answers yet but at least there ARE answers and posts to go by for now.

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 11:00 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:30 am

falcon45ca wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:28 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:23 am

Manny wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 5:22 am I think falcon is way more likely than not villa btw.
I still think Lan is an IC
Mac and Creature can still be town

I kinda wanna kill Chels but im too much of a coward to actually push that today so i'd settle for TSP or Epi ig.

Thoughts on Mac and Chelsea?

Also I see falcon being floated around, falcon completely fell below my radar so far, but then again so did TSP and (for a long time) Sig and... too many others.

You can find me on sonar or lidar, but I am immune to radio waves

Okay, but what's your stances on the game? Where is your head at? What do you think about your wagon, and why?

I don't think I've seen you post much content I found meaningful and I'd rather see more.

I don't care if folks vote for me, it's happened before and it'll happen again

I can't see any reason to find Epi town

Dunn feels like they're posting EXACTLY the way they described their town meta, so much so it feels scripted

I'm undecided if LC's anger is towny self-righteousness or snared wolf

1) Do you have prior experience with Epi and what we should expect from them?
2) Do you think that people are usually honest with regards to self-meta? Also, wouldn't that make it easier for a wolf to just "playbook" their own self-proclaimed meta? Do you have prior experience playing with Dunn that would back up that self-meta claim?
3) LC's anger feels less game-related and more player-related, considering that they want to clobber Sean in real life while almost begging to be yeeted. I don't think that they are related here. What else do you read LC off?

Chelsea wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:57 am

LanMisa wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:28 am

Chelsea wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 4:51 am Falcon I just want to play more, it's the slot you probably want to vig shoot over exeing because there's just nothing in it. The can't make lylo player until they post well. . .any opinion. (Curious as I wasn't expecting Lime and Dunnstral to also be on here. Did Dunn's LHF clause only count for D1?)

I have Longcon as a villager because they're not wolf with Mac or Scotty and if both those slots are a villager with how high volume of their. . .confidence we're in trouble. (I think Scotty's wolf equality is pretty high though) Independent of that the convo with Lanmisa felt pretty good so yeah.

While I do feel okay with your catchup that I saw so far I don't see a Scotty wolf world here and I think that basing a read off of pre-flip associations is iffy.

I agree with Long Con's approach to me being towny though.

Also, the post after you went "TSP or Falcon, then Scotty or Sean" and I cannot follow that kind of logic. Would you do that regardless of who dies D2 and regardless of their alignment or...?

I think TSP and Falcon need to post more to get any sort of read on them (although others think they've posted enough take it as you will)

I think Sean and Scotty have had bad posts in general. Does that explain it?

Which posts from Scotty are bad? I see nothing but forward-thinking and solving posts from Scotty and I disagree hard with that stance.

I agree with Sean (talked about that yesterday enough) but got a more neutral feeling at the end of yesterday.

What makes TSP/Falcon different from Sean (not Scotty) with regards how you want to tackle them phase-wise?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Feb 16, 2024 10:51 am If you don't like being antagonised then don't antagonise me. Get out of my cave of glory.

Come back after you sobered up and we may actually still get a salvageable exchange out of this.

If you don't, don't say I didn't try.