The Syndicate

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:12 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:09 pm I am apologizing to LC and Mac privately. Without going into it, yesterday was a wildly shitty day (both figuratively and literally ) and I spoke uncharitably here and took that avenue to channel my frustrations. I will do better.
I heard the details about your day and it sounded horrid. Sorry you had to go through that.

Thanks juliets.

In case anybody cared to know:

Spoiler: show

I am apologizing to LC and Mac privately. Without going into it, yesterday was a wildly shitty day (both figuratively and literally

) and I spoke uncharitably here and took that avenue to channel my frustrations. I will do better.

I just felt like my time was wasted.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:15 am I take pride in playing this game well and felt like this win was very hard earned. You are taking that feeling away. Of course I am going to be pissed off about that.

You're right. I'll go to Long Con privately and spare your feelings.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:14 am Saying the role I had was invincible makes me feel like all of the effort I put in was worthless and there is nothing worse than being made to feel like your effort is not valued.

Your role wasn't invincible. I never said that, so please don't put words in my mouth.

I also never implied your effort was worthless.

I am not having a go with YOU at all. I don't know why you're getting upset.

I'm troubled by the setup (which you didn't write) and the history of civilians apparently never winning (which you didn't cause).

This has nothing to do with you.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:06 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:56 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:50 am I am only engaging in this debate because I was literally in this role and at no point until the end game did I ever feel overpowered.
You don't have to feel overpowered for your role to be overpowered.

It was overpowered.

I outed you and your entire team...and you still won. In a game (Mafia) in which the entire point is to figure out who is bad, someone comes in and say who half the bad guys are, and they win...how do you not have an overpowered role?

I personally didn't like my role. I hated being The Darkness, and then I kept changing win conditions (You want to complain about having no win condition? I had no win condition. Mine kept changing every two fucking phases). Then I got stuck latched on to winning with the civilians who had no chance because there weren't enough to lynch you at any point, AND (!) I had to be dead, which further meant I couldn't win.

There was no universe in which I could win. None. Zero. If the author would like to paint one, I'm willing to listen, but I had zero chance from the beginning.

So don't complain about your circumstances just because you felt you had to work to win. At least you had a chance to work.
I don't mean to sound like I am complaining about my circumstances. I am not saying that I had it more difficult than others. I am telling you from the person sitting in this role seat that it was not as easy as you dreamed of it being. Especially after having to navigate being literally a revealed Mafia for several phases when there were easily more than enough people to lynch me. The game mechanics caused that outcome btw. Not just your whim. The game literally handed you that information. There were many mechanics built into this game to deal with the strength of our faction.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:58 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:51 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:50 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:48 am Every single day there was random map movements, night actions, kills, vote manipulation, day actions, items, portals, night polls that create cataclysms, interactive dungeon master host bullshit. Of course there are an insane amount of potential scenarios.
All of which civilians had to deal with too.

Civilians were fucked.
I just don't agree with, nor appreciate the idea that this game was easy for me lol.
It may not have been easy for you.

It was easy for your role.
This is quite mean dude. If you can't see how what you are saying is mean spirited and rude to me perhaps you should just take it as given from the person on the receiving end of it and rethink how you are raising these concerns of yours. As soon as the game ended you started shitting on the victory, didn't even give us a chance to be happy about winning what was an extremely challenging game before you rained on the parade. That's not nice at all. Perhaps rather than shitting all over it publicly you could have addressed these concerns with Long Con more constructively.

I'm not shitting on your win.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:27 am
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:26 am I mean I wasn't gonna win anyway, pushing Mac across the finish line was the least I could do.
I personally don't mind that outcome.

I think the setup needed some play testing.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:17 am
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 am (Also I figured we'd lose anyway so helping Mac win was fun)
I don't hate it.

The big letters is what I am arguing against. And information is stupid when you can't do anything about it. I am complaining about the setup. If you can't see that and instead choose to take it personally, I don't know what to tell you.

I'm off to bed.

I'm not angry- not at all. I'm just passionate about game balance. If civilians are never winning your games, then you have to address that. If civilians have little chance of winning your games, then why bother?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:51 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:50 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:48 am Every single day there was random map movements, night actions, kills, vote manipulation, day actions, items, portals, night polls that create cataclysms, interactive dungeon master host bullshit. Of course there are an insane amount of potential scenarios.
All of which civilians had to deal with too.

Civilians were fucked.
I just don't agree with, nor appreciate the idea that this game was easy for me lol.

It may not have been easy for you.

It was easy for your role.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:50 am I am only engaging in this debate because I was literally in this role and at no point until the end game did I ever feel overpowered.

You don't have to feel overpowered for your role to be overpowered.

It was overpowered.

I outed you and your entire team...and you still won. In a game (Mafia) in which the entire point is to figure out who is bad, someone comes in and say who half the bad guys are, and they win...how do you not have an overpowered role?

I personally didn't like my role. I hated being The Darkness, and then I kept changing win conditions (You want to complain about having no win condition? I had no win condition. Mine kept changing every two fucking phases). Then I got stuck latched on to winning with the civilians who had no chance because there weren't enough to lynch you at any point, AND (!) I had to be dead, which further meant I couldn't win.

There was no universe in which I could win. None. Zero. If the author would like to paint one, I'm willing to listen, but I had zero chance from the beginning.

So don't complain about your circumstances just because you felt you had to work to win. At least you had a chance to work.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:48 am Every single day there was random map movements, night actions, kills, vote manipulation, day actions, items, portals, night polls that create cataclysms, interactive dungeon master host bullshit. Of course there are an insane amount of potential scenarios.

All of which civilians had to deal with too.

Civilians were fucked.

In four games on this site, 3 mafia wins and 2 independent wins, but never any civilian wins.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:43 am Yeah but that's literally not true. It was only 8 people because I had allies.

The Kraken role is literally known to exist. It's an open non secret role. There were all sorts of roles, huge amounts of BTSC, abilities for people to see who is moving around the map. If people had their shit together they'd have made identifying the kraken a sub plot of the game. There was more than enough at the disposal of the other 30 odd players in the game to work around a Mafia player with -5 votes notwithstanding that there were also several Mafia killed in this game and I had no way of protecting myself at night.

I wouldn't throw my toys out of the pram at all. This is a game with an insane amount of potential scenarios. If by the end of the game it seemed like my role was OP it was because of the paths taken to get here. There are innumerable outcomes that result in my demise.

I don't agree with that at all.

My point is that I wish these games were more balanced. They can be a lot of fun, but has a civilian ever won?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:34 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:32 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:30 am Epi don't poo on our win.
I'm not. I already said this. I'm criticizing the setup.
You're basically saying that I shouldn't have even bothered to make any real effort and still would have won, which ... I hope isn't true.

That isn't true.

Hey Mac:

You're a civilian.

At endgame, you find out one of the 8(!) people you needed to lynch could only be lynched if you pretty much had a unanimous vote in a game with two mafias and some independents.

You'd throw your toys out of the pram.

I had already predicted I would out the Jagged Blade and they would skate by.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:30 am Epi don't poo on our win.

I'm not. I already said this. I'm criticizing the setup.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:29 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:26 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:22 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:08 am

Yeah it was.
This in the beginning crippled any hope the civilians could have possibly had from the outset.

Why make a mafia member all but immune to lynches?
There were days I was a revealed member of Mafia, with my role known, that I could have been lynched and wasn't. I was also within the kill range of Mafia many many times.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:14 am Oh and also it seemed to have got balanced by the fact that our entire team got infodumped so what does it matter.
You sound like I'm accusing you.

I'm not.

I'm saying it's a badly written role for anybody to have (especially mafia).

Nobody should ever have -5 votes- especially mafia.

The fact that I outed your entire team and you still won should demonstrate that.
I am just saying that there were many opportunities for me to be killed or lynched that were not taken. My role didn't make me impervious to death which means that the in game mechanics only served to make me a difficult mafioso to contend with rather than an impossible one. I should have been lynched as soon as DharmaHelper noticed I was the Kraken.

Also it's not as though it was "oh I have -5 votes this game is gonna be easy". I ended up having to make 950 posts to get the job done. It was a slog.
I don't mean that- what I mean is that once a mafia member is "caught," that mafia member should be able to be removed via the lynch poll.

That was never going to happen, because it meant needing 5(!) more voters on you than someone else in a given lynch. Yes, you could have been killed, but how many people ventured near the water knowing the Kraken was there? I went to the water one time in the very beginning and that was it.

You are almost impossible to lynch, especially as the civilians numbers dropped and the independents had the run of the show. There was no way for you to lose.

Have civilians ever won one of these "A World" games by the way? I know the Circle of Decay won last time. I don't know about games on other sites.
I was in kill range of members of the other team at least 5 or 6 times.

Doesn't negate my point. Most civilians don't have a kill.

Civilians shouldn't have to depend on mafia eliminating mafia to win.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:26 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:37 am I adopted the Karma Chameleon thing because I was the KC for a couple of phases. I kept changing win conditions and powers. I was The Darkness, then The Hunger (allied with Jagged Blade), then KC (who had to survive), then I found a horse, then I was the "Avatar of Long Con" and needed to be dead to win and the civilians needed to win.

Long Con seriously asked me if I had a plan to win.
If you did, it sucked.

I couldn't have a plan. By the time I ended up working for the civilians, the pooch had been screwed.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:22 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:08 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:48 am Was this MacDougall's actual role?

Kraken - Movement rate of 6 in the water, and 1 on land. Can still move 1 land square after 4 water squares. Knows who is in any square containing water, and has -5 votes while he is in the water.
Yeah it was.
This in the beginning crippled any hope the civilians could have possibly had from the outset.

Why make a mafia member all but immune to lynches?
There were days I was a revealed member of Mafia, with my role known, that I could have been lynched and wasn't. I was also within the kill range of Mafia many many times.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:14 am Oh and also it seemed to have got balanced by the fact that our entire team got infodumped so what does it matter.
You sound like I'm accusing you.

I'm not.

I'm saying it's a badly written role for anybody to have (especially mafia).

Nobody should ever have -5 votes- especially mafia.

The fact that I outed your entire team and you still won should demonstrate that.
I am just saying that there were many opportunities for me to be killed or lynched that were not taken. My role didn't make me impervious to death which means that the in game mechanics only served to make me a difficult mafioso to contend with rather than an impossible one. I should have been lynched as soon as DharmaHelper noticed I was the Kraken.

Also it's not as though it was "oh I have -5 votes this game is gonna be easy". I ended up having to make 950 posts to get the job done. It was a slog.

I don't mean that- what I mean is that once a mafia member is "caught," that mafia member should be able to be removed via the lynch poll.

That was never going to happen, because it meant needing 5(!) more voters on you than someone else in a given lynch. Yes, you could have been killed, but how many people ventured near the water knowing the Kraken was there? I went to the water one time in the very beginning and that was it.

You are almost impossible to lynch, especially as the civilians numbers dropped and the independents had the run of the show. There was no way for you to lose.

Have civilians ever won one of these "A World" games by the way? I know the Circle of Decay won last time. I don't know about games on other sites.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:21 am I'm not playing mafia anymore (for real this time) but I will play "a political strategy game" if anyone writes one.

All Mafia is a political strategy game.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 am (Also I figured we'd lose anyway so helping Mac win was fun)

I don't hate it.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:13 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:08 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:48 am Was this MacDougall's actual role?

Kraken - Movement rate of 6 in the water, and 1 on land. Can still move 1 land square after 4 water squares. Knows who is in any square containing water, and has -5 votes while he is in the water.
Yeah it was.
This in the beginning crippled any hope the civilians could have possibly had from the outset.

Why make a mafia member all but immune to lynches?
There were days I was a revealed member of Mafia, with my role known, that I could have been lynched and wasn't. I was also within the kill range of Mafia many many times.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:14 am Oh and also it seemed to have got balanced by the fact that our entire team got infodumped so what does it matter.

You sound like I'm accusing you.

I'm not.

I'm saying it's a badly written role for anybody to have (especially mafia).

Nobody should ever have -5 votes- especially mafia.

The fact that I outed your entire team and you still won should demonstrate that.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:08 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:48 am Was this MacDougall's actual role?

Kraken - Movement rate of 6 in the water, and 1 on land. Can still move 1 land square after 4 water squares. Knows who is in any square containing water, and has -5 votes while he is in the water.
Yeah it was.

This then crippled any hope the civilians could have possibly had from the outset.

Why make a mafia member all but immune to lynches?

Was this MacDougall's actual role?

Kraken - Movement rate of 6 in the water, and 1 on land. Can still move 1 land square after 4 water squares. Knows who is in any square containing water, and has -5 votes while he is in the water.

I adopted the Karma Chameleon thing because I was the KC for a couple of phases. I kept changing win conditions and powers. I was The Darkness, then The Hunger (allied with Jagged Blade), then KC (who had to survive), then I found a horse, then I was the "Avatar of Long Con" and needed to be dead to win and the civilians needed to win.

Long Con seriously asked me if I had a plan to win.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:26 am I mean I wasn't gonna win anyway, pushing Mac across the finish line was the least I could do.

I personally don't mind that outcome.

I think the setup needed some play testing.

I out an entire team and the civilians still ended up doomed.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:29 am I mean I'm not "talk to the mod" mad but Epi being an unlynchable shitlord and handing the civilians another W in the shitlordest way possible is very on brand for the game so.

(He won't tho he's gonna die lol)

Yeah, I'm a real "shitlord" around here (I don't even know what that means).

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:24 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:23 am
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:22 am Cool job dicking over all the mafia and 2 indies Epi :o
I warned you to leave the civilians alone.
Bitch I did tho

You didn't tho. I'm a civilian. I work for the civilians.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:22 am Cool job dicking over all the mafia and 2 indies Epi :o

I warned you to leave the civilians alone.

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:22 am if you're lying im still gonna be kinda mad for riling me up but not as mad ok

You get riled up over shit that can't hurt you?

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:20 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:16 am
Quin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:16 am actually i'd probably be angry enough to shit on your doorstep epi
Then...don't vote for me?
Did you not read the 6 or 7 times I literally said "Tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it?"

Instead you decided to just ignore me until the last second and proclaim that you're now maybe going to fuck me over because I'm literally just trying to not die.

If you do kill me right now I'm gonna be talk-to-the-mod mad.

Are you down to your last life already? Jesus. What did you encounter?

Oops. Too late.

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:16 am actually i'd probably be angry enough to shit on your doorstep epi

Then...don't vote for me?

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:13 am First of all how dare you.

I told you not to fuck with the civilians. You are hard headed.

Hard headed.

Heh.

Quin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:03 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:02 am Bye Mac.

Bye DH.

Bye Meow.
i mean if this is true i'd just be mildlysignificantly inconvenienced

That's true.

Bye Mac.

Bye DH.

Bye Meow.

Oh good. It's 11pm. Cool.

Everybody who votes me dies. The end.

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:53 pm epi if you have some weird death-darknessing ability up your sleeve pls leave this poor cat alone

Why are you voting for me?

I guess it's my time.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:02 pm My question to any civs is this: Mac has (so far) been correct about all the information he's dropped. What makes you think that Epi, a guy who has been Hunger/Darkness/whatever the hell, has any interest in a civ win? You already borked yourselves into a corner by not sniping Mac when you had the numbers, and now you need Indie votes and mafia votes to even stand a chance. Why not get Epignosis out of the game now?

I mean really.

I outed an entire mafia team for the civilians knowing full well one of them would "out" me as the Hunger, but also knowing that nobody would be affected by either darkness or hunger in the future, which clearly has not happened since nobody else but Mac (who is bad) is bitching about anything bad happening to them.

I think it's obvious what side I'm playing for.

Dana wrote: ↑Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:43 pm I mean if we're not gonna get Mac I could be down for Epi or Bob I guess?

I voted for the helmet. I don't think any of this stuff matters for me.

If there was more time, I would have liked to have borrowed Jesus' hat.

And I'm not even done.

If you fucked with the civilians, you fucked with me.

Good luck civilians, if I don't make it.

I've done everything in my power to help you.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:11 pm If I survive to end game the Blade wins but I don't. Unless Epi is dead.

Search found 400 matches