The Syndicate

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:18 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:14 pm When I played, I had fun. That's important.
Thanks, Epi. And sorry for any annoyance caused. Truth is, I've made and hosted about 10 role madness games so far. Only 2 really left me satisfied: Hogwarts and Ace Attorney. This one was one of my best ones I think, but still doesn't ompare to those too. It seems making a perfect RM game is a huge task.

Don't sweat it.

Early Epi death = Juliets is bad.

Go from there.

When I played, I had fun. That's important.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:05 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:00 pm I want to say this though:

DDL, you are a writer who knows what he's doing. I liked reading your stuff. And I did read your stuff. Even when I was dead.
Oh man, thanks for that. I have to say, I don't really prioritize doing write-ups. Sometimes I even skipped them. But when I did them I tried to give them some fun event related to the comic so it didn't feel like I was just phoning them in.

You're a good host. I think highly of you. My one piece of advice would be this:

Don't incorporate every aspect of a theme at the expense of the balance of your game. Cut things.

I want to say this though:

DDL, you are a writer who knows what he's doing. I liked reading your stuff. And I did read your stuff. Even when I was dead.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:57 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:54 pm When you want to balance something, look at your game and ask yourself this:

"I am signing up for this game. Which side do I want to be on?"
Honestly, I went in thinking the civs had the highest risk of being OP.

I had the opposite opinion. They need eight dead. The mafia have ways to stop being lynched. This means mafia can go after non-civilians.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:53 pm This game had 5 factions, excluding Quin.

CIvs, mafia, SK, cult and Zola.

So the game is balanced if each's faction chance of winning is as close as possible to 20%.

If your SK has a 20% of winning, no. That's daft.

How many mistakes can the civilians make before they lose? That's where I start.

When you want to balance something, look at your game and ask yourself this:

"I am signing up for this game. Which side do I want to be on?"

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:51 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:47 pm Civilians only get so many lynches to get it right. Mafia have lynches AND kills.

Piling on additional people civilians have to eliminate doesn't balance your game. It makes it harder.
It makes it harder for the mafia too.

The more factions a game has, the harder it is for each individual faction to win.

I do not agree.

The more people everyone has to get out, the easier it is for mafia, because it's a goose chase for the civilians.

A TRUE independent is someone who can win regardless of whether civilians or mafia win.

Civilians only get so many lynches to get it right. Mafia have lynches AND kills.

Piling on additional people civilians have to eliminate doesn't balance your game. It makes it harder.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:42 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:32 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:30 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:12 pm Too many lynches had to go right, and civilians weren't afforded enough of them. DDL, how were the civilians expected to win?
Lynch more than one baddie in the first 7 day phases.
How do you lynch more than one? You only get one lynch.
You lynched 1 baddie, 3 indies and 3 civs.

If a civilian faction is ever allowed to win a game after doing that, the host did a bad job balancing it.

They're not independent! My win condition said I needed them dead.

Civilians didn't have an "incredibly low scum lynch ratio." They had an "incredibly high [evil] independent lynch ratio," which was necessary to win the game as well.

The problem is those aren't independents, as you call them. Those roles were detrimental to civilians, and therefore not independents.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:34 pm Power madness games are very hard to balance. A lot is up to luck and chance. For example, had certain mafia roles died earlier while certain town roles had survived, the game could easily be very town sided (or sided with an Indy role getting the upper hand). That's just part of a role and mechanics heavy game. There's usually some salt left after that, and that's fine. I'm very happy with my play in any case, as I am with the other active mafia and I think it was a deserved win that of course was helped by a fair share of luck. As would any win in a power madness game. One side losing doesn't mean they played badly. Such is mafia.

They're very easy to balance. I do it all that time.

Bad or good luck is certainly a factor in any given one, but that doesn't mean it isn't balanced.

Civilians needed nutella dead (not mafia).

Civilians needed Lunalee dead (not mafia).

Civilians needed sprityo dead (not mafia).

Civilians needed five more people dead.

That's eight.

That's too many.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:30 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:12 pm Too many lynches had to go right, and civilians weren't afforded enough of them. DDL, how were the civilians expected to win?
Lynch more than one baddie in the first 7 day phases.

How do you lynch more than one? You only get one lynch.

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2019 10:20 pm You missed the part where the bomb meant we were silenced the next phase and the votes at the time we dropped the bomb would be assessed the next day so their were definitely negative consequences for using it.

You're mafia. Your silence is a benefit to you. Mafia don't want to talk.

The civilian faction had to lynch or kill eight in order to win.

This lasted 10 Days.

Think about that.

Too many lynches had to go right, and civilians weren't afforded enough of them. DDL, how were the civilians expected to win?

"The Baron has a good reputation as a keeper of peace. He appears as civilian on investigations."

" [Construct Body]: The Baron has an abnormal body. He survives the first regular kill that hits him."

"Juliets used Take 5 Bomb to remove herself and Michelle from the poll."

When you ensure mafia can't be lynched or killed, mafia win.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:20 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:15 pm If timmer is bad, add juliets to the list.
the good list or lynch list?

Naughty pile.

If timmer is bad, add juliets to the

list.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:12 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:08 pm
Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:43 pm
I feel like Dizzy and Epi maybe should have died by now, but I had also forgot about the gazillion shenangins that could have happened in the night.
What the hell is this?

Dyslexicon - Violetta
Epignosis - Wooster
I meant 2.0 selves. It's like since you are back in the game. Idk generally you seem like a threat and scum kill you a lot.

There's only been two Night phases since we swapped in.

If you're going to go down that road, why not ask why Sloonei isn't dead?

Quick lists before the sun goes down.

Would lynch: timmer, Dyslexicon, Jack, Dragomir, sprityo
Would not lynch: Dom

Normally I feel more confident putting people in that second category, but right now I do not.

If your name doesn't appear, I could go either way.

Just got home. Am burnt. Am tired. Am thirsty.

Owner of a Lonely Heart wrote: ↑Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:43 pm
I feel like Dizzy and Epi maybe should have died by now, but I had also forgot about the gazillion shenangins that could have happened in the night.

What the hell is this?

Dyslexicon - Violetta
Epignosis - Wooster

I was in no state to articulate this last night, but I have a problem with Jack and his false dilemma he painted yesterday about timmer and me. If timmer is a civilian, and is shown to be such, it gives Jack license to burn a lynch Day 7 against me. That's shite.

I am home now and looking like a red peppercorn.

timmer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:26 pm I'm sorry everyone, after posting about my big drive,
I got a text from a different person and ended up being up with her until sunrise ans only now am I home ans im exhausted.

I just did a very quick skim and michelle, I never mentioned your thoughts on me much because there isn't a lot to say, you seem mostly sick on stuff from like day 1 and I'm past all that, but I don't freak if people are voting me, is just a game.

For now, I'm leaving a vote on sprotyo for basically trolling which doesn't feel toen

You're bad and not even trying.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:57 am I'm joining on Michelle. I think maybe scum team is largely inactive and I can see Michelle's voting as trying to carry numbers over for scum. Also just haven't recognized town in Michelle.

[VOTE: Michelle] aubergine

I'm more busy in general this week, but I'll probably be around tonight. FYI

I have a problem with the reasoning behind this vote.

Michelle is bad, according to you.

Fine.

The mafia team is largely inactive.

sign died early.
sabie maybe did nothing.
Who is killing active Syndicate regulars?
Who killed Long Con?

I think you did.

I want to thank Quin for being the hero we needed, although sadly not the hero we deserve.

Also, Poseidon really has it out for my nutsack today.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:46 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:50 pm If you think I called for sabie's head and then tried to save my unreplaceable teammate who isn't here, then
Here's the thing, Epi.

The more I play mafia, the more I think about wolf strategy in terms of numbers and endgame.

Scum needs X mislynches. Scum needs Y players to survive until endgame.

Sabie wasn't surviving til endgame. If you're scum, I don't think you blast her and then try to save her. I think you blast her but not hard enough to stop Creature from getting lynched and then you say Timmer's scum with her and try to mislynch Timmer before and after Sabie swings.

The goal isn't to save Sabie and get her to endgame or even to use her power one more time. It's to get a mislynch while the mislynching is good.

That's not unreasonable.

Here's the thing, Jack.

sabie doesn't get lynched unless I say, "I want to lynch sabie." She was on nobody's radar. I was receptive to lynching Creature too. If I'm sabie's teammate, I can easily facilitate the Creature lynch and string up a different civilian next.

Your accusation against me, that I mastermindedly made sure Creature got lynched first, is silly. The poll was tied. Had sabie gotten the rope first, this conversation would be very different.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:46 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:50 pm If you think I called for sabie's head and then tried to save my unreplaceable teammate who isn't here, then
Here's the thing, Epi.

The more I play mafia, the more I think about wolf strategy in terms of numbers and endgame.

Scum needs X mislynches. Scum needs Y players to survive until endgame.

Sabie wasn't surviving til endgame. If you're scum, I don't think you blast her and then try to save her. I think you blast her but not hard enough to stop Creature from getting lynched and then you say Timmer's scum with her and try to mislynch Timmer before and after Sabie swings.

The goal isn't to save Sabie and get her to endgame or even to use her power one more time. It's to get a mislynch while the mislynching is good.

That's not unreasonable.

Here's the thing, Jack.

sabie doesn't get lynched unless I say, "I want to lynch sabie.". She was on nobody's radar. I was receptive to lynching Creature too. If I'm sabie's teammate, I can easily facilitate the Creature lynch and string up a different civilian next.

Your accusation against me, that I mastermindedly made sure Creature got lynched first, is silly. The poll was tied. Had sabie gotten the rope first, this conversation would be very different.

Yes, I still suspect timmer, Jack. He saved her, made excuses for her, and when she was inevitably getting lynched, he tried to make evil lemonade out of the lemons.

I have to log in every time I want to make a new post using my phone. That's gonna be a no from me, dog.

If you think I called for sabie's head and then tried to save my unreplaceable teammate who isn't here, then

Epi ain't finna do shit today. Epi on vacay #2.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:33 pm Why is Dizzy scummy?

It's more about Sloonei than Dizzy. I'll say that much.

Bad Sloonei has an uncanny way of showing his hand eventually. He's subbed out, so that can never be ascertained. All Dizzy2 has to do is replicate what Dizzy 1 was doing, and if the civilians were on such a shitty streak, as they were, that wouldn't be hard to do.

And with 3(?) teammates alive on Day 5?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:31 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:29 pm I don't trust Dyslexicon either. I think Sloonei was bad.
Lol like I know how to read Sloonei even a little bit.

Dizzy though? They’ve phoned in every mafia performance I’ve ever seen from them and I’ve correctly townread them several times. I have a hard time suspecting Dis here.

As a replacement?

I wonder how timmer must feel trying so hard to defend sabie only to finally have to give her up. Brutal.

I don't trust Dyslexicon either. I think Sloonei was bad.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:27 pm Lol I have no idea what I was talking about. Certain role? I fucking said that. Oh well I’ll dance out of it if it becomes a problem. I obviously got bigger problems.

Since the curtain has yet to be pulled back, I assume we can continue talking.

Spoiler: show

I do not trust Jack, timmer, or sabie.

I'm sorry- I don't see any of that as civilianesque.

"Idk does wolf Timmer ever try this hard to derp clear himself?"

The correct phrase is "Acting stupid." It isn't "derp clear." It's "feigning ignorance." My God has language devolved to this point?

Now phase two, Jack:

"Timmer with a certain role"

What role is that and why do those posts indicate that role?

Good man. I'll wait.

Can you answer my question about timmer? To me, that's the most important thing right now.

At 10pm EST I may ask some people to move their votes.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:39 am I’d lynch several people before Timmer. There have been 2 or 3 posts that feel like they come from town Timmer with a certain role. They aren’t that tough to fake but I’ve got nothing in Sprityo or Sabie or Michelle’s defense except a guy I kinda trust (Epi) saying he kinda thinks Michelle is town.

Hey Jack! Buddy! Pal!

Speculation isn't illegal.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:45 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:39 am I’d lynch several people before Timmer. There have been 2 or 3 posts that feel like they come from town Timmer with a certain role. They aren’t that tough to fake but I’ve got nothing in Sprityo or Sabie or Michelle’s defense except a guy I kinda trust (Epi) saying he kinda thinks Michelle is town.
What are the two or three posts?

Yeah, I went back, and if Michelle is fooling me, then well done.

I feel compelled to harp on this further.

timmer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:31 am I'm definitely leaving my vote on sabie, but I'll say that epig's push towards me feels pretty bad.

No it doesn't. timmer's vote was on Creature. Here are few things timmer had to say about Creature:

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:36 am So looking back at charter about sig, the two people who most supported him on day 1 were creature and sloonei. Creature fairly directly, and sloonei a bit more indirectly. I will concentrate on reading them.

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:45 am I've placed a vote on creature as well, he was directly supportive of Sig in the thread. I'm reading sloonei next

That's elementary. You find mafia by searching for the people who were the most supportive of the most recently deceased mafia member?

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:44 am I'll vote creature as 2 people have called this his baddie mo. It's enough for now

I'm calling this timmer's "baddie MO." Can I get a second?

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:01 pm Juliets suddenly moving off of creature is... not a good look for my read on her.

timmer wrote: ↑Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:13 pm And sabie hasn't even been given a chance to defend herself... Creature is here and is being aloof and not bothering much, which is worse, to me.

sabie needs five Days to defend herself? Defend herself from what precisely?

timmer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:31 am We do NOT need to leave an inactive sable aside for today. Because she ISN'T inactive, in fact she is deliberately doing the bare minimum needed to survive in the game without having her powers modblocked.

How do you know she is deliberately doing this, in fact?

timmer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:31 am I would NOT normally kill off longtime syndicate players, Epig should remember that I tend to want to lynch inactives and players I don't know, because I generally trust that I can get the long-timers whose games I know well lynched.

No offense timmer, but I haven't played with you in years, and no, I don't make it a point about what you would and would not do. My opinion about you now has nothing to do with my view of you from two or three years ago. I believe you want the game to end as quickly as possible, and killing active Syndicate members accomplishes that.

timmer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:31 amBut the key here is that he keeps referring to sabie as inactive, when she very definitely is NOT, and he knows this and is ignoring it.

She has six posts. She's inactive. I'm obviously not ignoring it, since I'm the one bringing it up.

timmer wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:31 amAnd at this point, with a sabie lynch looking like it would happen, to see this sudden idea of "no, we have to lynch other than sabie, uhm,... that guy" it tells me that a successful sabie lynch would tell us a LOT about who the bad guys are in this game.

"Successful." Will it be successful?

juliets likewise.

Spoiler: show

Jack, timmer, Dyslexicon voted Creature even though I was calling for sabie's head. Now they are all on sabie. Why is that?

So let's try this a new way: sabie is bad. Where do you go Day 6 and why? sabie is good. Where do you Day 6 and why?

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