The Syndicate

Epignosis was targeted N1 by Vompatti (Moya) and chose to redirect it to... Vompatti!

I never in my life would have guessed this was what happened though hahaha

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey BWT, are you able to produce some summarized/quick reads for me (whether rainbow or not)? I'm curious where your head is at right now.

Linki: Same question to Trice.

Confident civ: the late Golden, Sloonei, you, me

tentative/probably civ: epignosis, Timmer, MM, sig

Mafia 1: was vompatti
Mafia 2: Dom
Serial Killer: JJJ
Iffy shortlist for Mafia 3: Lorab, scotty, BWT, boomslang

(more info needed): ninja blooper

my day 4 reads hmm

G-Man wrote: Sockeface McMotormouth.

I've gotta remember that one

Quin wrote:I just got butchered in Lost so I'm here now. I'll get onto my ISO's soon.

start with dom and lorab

Scotty wrote:Trice is in line to get lynched and I don't like it.

Where the rest of the votes at? We have 30 minutes and for once, I'm around for a hot second

mafia is really fun when half the civs are absentee

guess I'll move my vote to BWT though because 2 people I think are good voted for him (contrast with 2 of my top baddie suspects & the serial killer voting for me)

timmer wrote:Im going with trice now. BWT earns a single day for potentially being silenced, I don't want to vote him if he truly can't pit.

He's not silenced, sleep killed last night

LoRab wrote:Real question, trice: Does weird mean baddie to you? Because I agree that aspects of BWT's posts are strange, but I'm not sure they are necessarily suspect.

linkitis: Why would I need your permission for anything?

not necessarily, I haven't even voted for BWT, I think he always posts weird (no offense bird)

LoRab wrote: And you know that the insanifier is on the baddie team how?

assumption based on the targets

LoRab wrote:Also, you are assuming a lynch protection. Which I agree seems unlikely. However, "so and so survives the first attempt on his/her life," seems a lot more likely as an addition on any role, good or bad. On a 3 person mafia team, I'd say that it's actually quite likely that one of the 2 living players has that as part of their role description.

"so and so survives the first attempt on their life" is something I would consider a lynch protection, and you could be right & are entitled to believe anything you want about me and MM surviving the lynch without asking my permission (I don't know what really happened, I'm speculating)

BWT's other weird posts have been:
-"civilian minded info" whatever that means
-"I'm not seeing any contributions out of MM except for this one contribution which is basically more than I've done today"
-"I only want to vote for my so-called primary suspect if he's already got 2 votes for (insert reasons here)" as mentioned before
-bizarrely directing 90% of his posts at Timmer for some reason

but it's really hard to tell with all the role secrets

triceratopzeuhl wrote: I also think mladic must be an insanifier role and I have doubts that it would be both an insanifier AND a lynch protect.

& sleep already basically has 3 powers even before inheriting kill - silence, vote block, night power block

triceratopzeuhl wrote: It's something I kinda tried to do but didn't have enough time and didn't reach any conclusions that weren't mentioned here already

that is to say, BWT's arbitrary requirement for more MM votes before he would move his yesterday is weird, boomslang didn't really do anything unusual since the timmer vote, scotty has been fairly inactive but I still haven't seen anything suspicious from him, Lorab I didn't have time to check yet (been out)

linki JJJ

Does the 15:3:1 ratio have any impact upon your mindset regarding the source of that protection?

not really because I think the baddies have been given other means to compensate, namely silence and insanifier to disrupt communications and make it easier for them to control discussion. I also think mladic must be an insanifier role and I have doubts that it would be both an insanifier AND a lynch protect.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I think it's unlikely BWT is pretending to be silenced. The nature of the Sleep role, and the fact that we all know it has the killing power, makes that a strategy which only invites scrutiny. I'd say it's more likely that he is either actually silenced because of whatever other role or mechanic might be in play, or he simply hasn't been around to get involved. That circumstance can apply to any alignment. I think the cases available in the thread already are more pertinent.

"If Sleep kills, he cannot use his regular power during the same Night"

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Everyone who hasn't already commented on this: I'd like to know what impact, if any, the failed lynch of Day 4 has on your reads of trice and MM.

I'm 99% sure the coin toss landed on MM because I don't know of any way I would have been protected (unless an anonymous civ decided to protect me)

What does that mean to you with regard to MM's alignment?

I think a civ protect is more likely than baddie, I also think MM knew he was safe (he has at least twice this game taunted that he wants to get lynched iirc)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Everyone who hasn't already commented on this: I'd like to know what impact, if any, the failed lynch of Day 4 has on your reads of trice and MM.

I'm 99% sure the coin toss landed on MM because I don't know of any way I would have been protected (unless an anonymous civ decided to protect me)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Trice, could you please summarize your current concerns with each of the players you have listed as a baddie candidate?

Those are based on a combination of patterns as I described before, not on suspicious behavior. I would have to close read for that.

Is that something you mean to do, or are you content operating on the basis of night kills/silences/insanifications?

It's something I kinda tried to do but didn't have enough time and didn't reach any conclusions that weren't mentioned here already

Metalmarsh89 wrote: Boomslang was civ. Accept it.

You're probably right but as I mention above, this is based on looking at night powers and whatnot which doesn't provide a read on boomslang either direction

I was going to say sorry for being away because I parade on wednesday nights, but seems like everybody else was away anyway

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Trice, could you please summarize your current concerns with each of the players you have listed as a baddie candidate?

Those are based on a combination of patterns as I described before, not on suspicious behavior. I would have to close read for that.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey BWT, are you able to produce some summarized/quick reads for me (whether rainbow or not)? I'm curious where your head is at right now.

Linki: Same question to Trice.

Confident civ: Slooneiquin, MP, me

tentative/probably civ: epignosis, Timmer, MM, sig

Mafia 1: was vompatti
Serial Killer: JJJ
Mafia shortlist: Dom, Lorab, scotty, BWT, boomslang

(more info needed): ninja blooper

updated, unfortunately boomslang's death doesn't give us info. I think nijuukyugou must've been civ.

My brilliant plan to stop dom from NKing me for an extra night paid off

Dom wrote: By saying that I will nightkill you, you are setting me up for a lynch whether you live or die. If you live, you're around to push my lynch. If you die, then you've set me up for a lynch. You don't seem to care about the consequences of your actions.

If Dom wasn't mafia, the mafia would have taken advantage of this tbh

LoRab wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

timmer wrote:Trice, we seem to have 3 people posting in some form of curse. Do you think all 3 are legit? If not, which do you think is lying, and why?

I'm pretty sure when roles are finally revealed at the end of the game, Mladic will be rather complication mechanics for cursing people and I don't really know what to think on it. FWIW I didn't even realize Lorab was supposed to be cursed, but if he (she? sorry don't know) is, it's similar in nature to Marmot's (contrast this with random capslocks letters like JJJ/epi) and to Golden's curse earlier in the game. Leads me to believe that if there are 3 curses today, marmot and lorab both come from same source as Golden before, and epi comes from same source as JJJ did, and it's 2 separate sources.

This is still what I believe regarding the curses

To clarify: You believe that all of the curses come from one role/player and not from multiple sources?

No, I think the two who had to post in random capslock were from 1 src and the 3 with weird rules were from another (last sentence of my post)

Quin wrote:How many people were insanified each day? The number of people they're able to target might be increasing periodically.

could be yeah

MovingPictures07 wrote:

timmer wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:MM, at some point earlier in the game you seemed a bit more resigned to being lynched. Today either you or trice survived the lynch. Would you fault me for finding it more plausible that you are the player that survived?

My gut tells me that it involved a third party, tbh. Trice absolutely did not post like someone who knew he was safe, he was frantic, and oddly enough I feel like MM didn't act right either because he would have been looser than he was. He actually seemed to be hamstrung in retrospect.

That's a decent point. But who the hell would stop the lynch? I don't know why any townie would do it if they didn't have info on both MM and Trice.

sounds spooky

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

timmer wrote:Trice, we seem to have 3 people posting in some form of curse. Do you think all 3 are legit? If not, which do you think is lying, and why?

I'm pretty sure when roles are finally revealed at the end of the game, Mladic will be rather complication mechanics for cursing people and I don't really know what to think on it. FWIW I didn't even realize Lorab was supposed to be cursed, but if he (she? sorry don't know) is, it's similar in nature to Marmot's (contrast this with random capslocks letters like JJJ/epi) and to Golden's curse earlier in the game. Leads me to believe that if there are 3 curses today, marmot and lorab both come from same source as Golden before, and epi comes from same source as JJJ did, and it's 2 separate sources.

This is still what I believe regarding the curses

Metalmarsh89 wrote: Trice, why are you so sure here that mafia has the insanifier ability?

I agree they likely do, but this statement has more certainty.

I guess it's possible a civvie insanified Golden but I don't think anybody thought he was bad so I don't get why one would. Sometimes it really is the most obvious answer.

Dom wrote: You never showed me where I had said that since day 1, because I never had. Which is why you never once answered this post.

I didn't know I was arguing that.
[/quote]

I would love to know what else "Why are you still deeming him useless?" could possibly mean in the context

Dom wrote: Also, what I said was not patently "wrong", and I invite others to look into this. I didn't follow up because it became clear to me that you aren't interested in conversation, only dictation.

You said I was still criticizing epignosis for something I hadn't criticized him for in a long time at that point, because he stopped doing it. What part of that wasn't wrong?

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Dom wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Dom wrote: go through each of epi's posts and show me the useless ones.

At the time I voted for him, this was 100% of his posts:

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:All My Posts Will Be Potential Titles for Post-Rock Songs

Epignosis wrote:We Are Closing on the Mint House on the Cul-de-Sac in December

Epignosis wrote:POE is Rolling Around in His Grave (Which is in Baltimore, 515 W Fayette Street, in Case You Wanted to Go There)

Epignosis wrote:Townie is Such a Pussy Word

Epignosis wrote:You are Preaching to the Choir, Which is Wearing Robes Made by Unchristian Foreigners

Epignosis wrote:This is Boring, but at Least The Children Are Asleep

Epignosis wrote:Some People Just Like Big Numbers Under Their Names

Epignosis wrote:This is Not a Rainbow; It is Green Snot and Gray Snot

Epignosis wrote:LoRab is Not a Cold Dead Person

Epignosis wrote:Jesus Christ, Six Pages

Epignosis wrote:This Includes Content

Epignosis wrote:It's a Sin to Kill a Bird With Teeth on the First Day.

The third one could potentially be interpreted as him saying he doesn't like MP's POE strategy, and the last one is saying he thinks BWT is good. The rest? compost

OK
But that isn't his current posting. Why are you still deeming him useless?

Show me where I've said that since day 1

triceratopzeuhl wrote: At the time I voted for him,

You never showed me where I had said that since day 1, because I never had. Which is why you never once answered this post.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote: Maybe timmer made a good point. Maybe your reasoning on JJJ is the way it is because your pegging him as the SK means you know he is that role. And if that is true, then that makes me worried about you.

It doesn't follow logically at all to think that I would have to be mafia to have info on JJJ (if you are assuming that). There are 2 known info-gathering civvies and 6 civvies with secrets. There are 0 known info-gathering mafia members and 2 with secrets.

Has either Timmer or BWT replied to this? I might have missed it in the flurry of activity

I do notice that locations that win each vote have been disappearing from the polls

Quin wrote: Thanks.

The rules/gameplay part of the OP doesn't mention the implications of declaring a location. How does that work?

I haven't noticed any difference day to day, I can only assume some players have info on certain locations giving them bonuses. I haven't even seen anybody trying to encourage others to vote one way or another so who knows.

What are historical odds of civvies VS mafia having a lynch protect power?

Dom wrote:Trice, what exactly did I start days ago?

I mean, you even linked it in your own reply to me?

Dom wrote: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 14#p314414

Dom wrote: OK
But that isn't his current posting. Why are you still deeming him useless?

This is 100% as curt/rude as anything I've said to you (and also you immediately ignored my correction to this patently wrong post in favour of looking for more GOTCHA! moments which was the reason I originally started suspecting you)

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I said that given what Rule 4 said, that there was something else going on we aren't publicly aware of. I reiterated it with adding in that it happened after a coin was flipped. How did I disagree with you, trice?

I thought the combination of the word "Nah" and saying there was "also" something afoot meant you were disagreeing with me, my bad, I realize now the Nah was in response to "are there any other theories"

Quin wrote:I'm sick right now and haven't been keeping up with the thread, so I'm not in the best state to look through 60 pages of content and actually get anything out of it. So, if there's anything I should or need to know then let me know, otherwise I'm just going to start from here. But by all means if you want to direct me to anything specific in previous posts then kick my butt and I'll do it.

here's my fast and dirty summary which I will leave my unproven theories from (even though they are true )

1. Vompatti was Moya, the killer from the mafia team, and was killed night 1 probably from the civvie role Motherfucker=Redeemer. It's unclear whether the M=R kill overrid his kill, or if vomps never submitted one

2. civvie role Rockets Fall On Rocket Falls blocked night powers night 2

3. both the "serial killer" (indy role) and 2nd mafia member, who has vompatti's kill power now that vompatti is dead, targetted the same person (Golden) night 3. I think most of us agree he was definitely civilian

4. We unfortunately haven't managed to lynch a baddie yet.

@everybody Are any of these points under dispute?

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm currently still alive, and y'all are the worst.

same tbh

BWT what exactly do you think "faith of the coin" means?

I think it meant the host flipped a coin to determine the lynch. And whoever's side the coin landed on has some tomfoolery or shenanigans going on that kept them alive.

But that's exactly what I said and you disagreed with it

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I'm currently still alive, and y'all are the worst.

same tbh

BWT what exactly do you think "faith of the coin" means?

Welcome Quin, hope you like heavy reading

birdwithteeth11 wrote:So...a tie means no lynch then?

That's not usually how it works. Rule 4 "surrender to the faith of the coin" should mean it was random. I think coin toss and/or Piss Crowns power made the lynch land on marmot and he has some kind of protection, which is why he was joking about wanting to be lynched earlier.

Or the same thing with me, you never know.

Any other theories?

Ricochet wrote:

Spoiler: show

Is this supposed to ahve something in it?

watch for mafia 3, dom and vompatti's teammate, to be among the people voting me. I read all the marmot voters as good even if I also thought marmot was good

timmer wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:MM moved his vote from JJJ to BWT of all people, when he could have moved it to me to force a tie. Does this have anything to do with him saying he wanted to be lynched earlier? Does he have a protect or similar power?

I'm assuming he will move it at the last second. MM doesn't just throw in the towel.

you were right

well, waiting to see if I'm dead

Fine, here's your answers

Dom wrote: Patterns of what?

I've explained pretty thoroughly, I don't see at all what you dont get. You appear in multiple leads from known civvies, more often than any other player. Hence why I'm looking at your posts to guess your teammate.

Dom wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:Even if you lynch me today, remaining civvies can still easily win if they listen to me. I'm sort of resigned to the fact that I die every game I ever play (it's why all my victories are as mafia or indy, being alive isn't typically a win condition for them) and even if you don't lynch me, Dom or JJJ will nightkill me before the game is over.

This is setting me up both ways, which makes me feel worse about you. It shows that you don't care if I am civ at all.

This makes no sense and I don't understand how you extracted that conclusion from my post.

[/quote]

MM moved his vote from JJJ to BWT of all people, when he could have moved it to me to force a tie. Does this have anything to do with him saying he wanted to be lynched earlier? Does he have a protect or similar power?

Dom wrote: Maybe I don't respond to you because your replies to me are rather brash and rude.

you started it days ago

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:5. town trice v. serial killer JJJ

Quick question, trice:

You've said repeatedly today that I'm the SK, and you've also repeatedly questioned the sincerity of my reads (suggesting I am deliberately misrepresenting or OMGUSing or what have you). If I am specifically the SK and not mafia, I don't know who the bad guys are and thus have the ability to provide real scum hunting effort. What is the motive to fake my reads in this scenario you've painted?

beats me, I can't read your mind

even if you can provide scum hunting effort, you also have another night kill tonight, unless we have another secret role blocker (hint hint if we do there's a foolproof way to prove JJJ is the sk, just saying)

I'm trying to understand you here. Could you at least attempt to answer the question. I don't know what relevance the SK's night kill has to my question.

Increased urgency before you kill another civ, which is why I wanted to lynch you today

lynch votes

Dom: missed, Wilgy, BWT
Lorab: missed, A Person, A Person
Scotty: epignosis, Lorab, A Person
BWT: missed, Boomslang, A Person
Boomslang: Metalmarsh, Timmer, Metalmarsh

Not seeing anything too helpful unfortunately

if metalmarsh flips bad it should clear boomslang (but if he flips bad I think Dom is the remaining mafia)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

triceratopzeuhl wrote:5. town trice v. serial killer JJJ

Quick question, trice:

You've said repeatedly today that I'm the SK, and you've also repeatedly questioned the sincerity of my reads (suggesting I am deliberately misrepresenting or OMGUSing or what have you). If I am specifically the SK and not mafia, I don't know who the bad guys are and thus have the ability to provide real scum hunting effort. What is the motive to fake my reads in this scenario you've painted?

beats me, I can't read your mind

even if you can provide scum hunting effort, you also have another night kill tonight, unless we have another secret role blocker (hint hint if we do there's a foolproof way to prove JJJ is the sk, just saying)

If one of the curses is fake it would be MM and not Lorab, MM has been including names and such mid-passage in whatever the hell he's quoting, if you compare to Golden posting only in the lyrics from Hurt or whatever he was doing, he wasn't allowed to modify the passages or add content to them

if poll trickery kills me anyway, and I don't have the opportunity, somebody please check voting patterns of my mafia 3 shortlist, as posted earlier

I have been civ reading scotty most of the game but he could just be a good liar... he's one of the 3 people who appear multiple times in my lead lists

timmer wrote:I'm actually a bit weirded out by the fact that trice hasn't voted for MM, yet.

I was painting a new lid for my composter up until about 2 minutes ago. I am willing to vote MM to save myself, but will not be surprised if he is good. He is in fact on the golden suspect list which is a point against him

MovingPictures07 wrote:Just quickly reading through, I see the Trice v. JJJ discussion as, from most to least likely:
1) Town v. Town
2) Mafia v. Mafia
3) Mafia Trice v. Town JJJ
4) Town Trice v. Mafia JJJ

5. town trice v. serial killer JJJ

MP, the important part is that vompatti was moya

triceratopzeuhl wrote: List of other people Golden voiced suspicions of within a day or two of his death: A Person, Dom, Lorab, MM, Sig
List of people Sloonei voiced suspicions of before getting silenced by Sleep: Lorab, Scotty, Dom, INH, DrWilgy

triceratopzeuhl wrote: List of people dom has defended or said he thinks are good: Timmer, JJJ, Scotty, BWT, Boomslang, MP, epi

He also defended BWT from JJJ accusations, so you can cross the latter off that list (you can anyway since he's SK not mafia).

Of the above he also leveled accusations of varying degrees at BWT, boomslang and MP on different occasions



Cross referencing with the other two lists I posted, Dom, Lorab, and scotty are the only ones who appear more than once

triceratopzeuhl wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey BWT, are you able to produce some summarized/quick reads for me (whether rainbow or not)? I'm curious where your head is at right now.

Linki: Same question to Trice.

Confident civ: the late Golden, Sloonei, you, me

tentative/probably civ: epignosis, Timmer, MM, sig

Mafia 1: was vompatti
Mafia 2: Dom
Serial Killer: JJJ
Iffy shortlist for Mafia 3: Lorab, scotty, BWT, boomslang

(more info needed): ninja blooper

After I die this is the info the remaining civs need to capitalize on

MovingPictures07 wrote:Trice still seems genuine to me. What am I missing?

nothing