The Syndicate

Roxy wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Also, DEATH TO THE HOSTS!!! THEY PERPETUATE THE VIOLENCE INHERENT IN THE SYSTEM!!!!!!

COME BACK HERE YOU! I'LL.....I'LL PECK YOUR EYES OUT!!!

:P

As an agnostic, the death of God seems up in the air to me.

*Obligatory knee slapping*

No, but seriously, not sure how I feel about this. I mean, I personally would think that SVS would play it as a civ-oriented role, which would make the results of this lynch not good.

Long Con wrote:No change, my theory comes from the idea that he's got blind devotion to the idea he's a Civvie, and yet God insists very strongly that he is bad. Recruit makes sense.

The only idea I've thought of is that SVS was able to know who targeted her at night. And if llama targeted her with a certain kind of power, that might lead her to believe he is bad. I'll have to think on this though.

Believe it or not, I am reading between the lines with you, SVS. I just don't believe you, and think you are trying to come up with a way to save yourself. So it's not that I am blatantly ignoring your posts. I've done that far too often with people I've suspected in the past, developed tunnel vision, and gotten burned for it. I don't feel like I have tunnel vision with you though. I think I'm actually on to something here.

When I said lying down, I meant that you've gone off your emotionally-driven defense and become a lot more calm and logical about it. And I feel that's more indicative if you being bad.

I do agree with you on Ninjajellobabies though. I think her one long post earlier was full of indecision on which way to go. It reminded me of Juliets earlier on when I voted for her on Day 4, although I feel like she's gotten away from that moreso now. Which makes me feel a bit more comfortable about her.

Bullzeye wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote: 2)Canuck: I think llama's case on why Canuck is bad is based more off assumption. And it's not an assumption I agree with. While it's certainly within the realm of possibility, I think it more likely that Canuck is bad because I felt like she glomped onto my reasoning for voting Made:

Canucklehead wrote:Keterman, I'm not voting Made "because everyone else is". That's a pretty reductive and manipulative reading of my explanation.

This is the part of bwt I was saying I agreed with. Sorry I didn't quote it.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: I said that on Monday, it's now Saturday. A lot can happen in the space of a week. The seemer thing has made me distrust you because as I've said a few times I'm always wary of people who fall back on seemer accusations after civ lynches so the fact you're doing it before he's even been lynched is just grabbing my attention like crazy. It's not that I don't take you seriously, it's just that I find some of the things you're pushing to be a bit shifty. Not only the seemer thing but also the "let's lynch the people around Made before we lynch him" which you must admit can be taken to look as if you're his teammate trying to buy him some time. I did trust you at first but I always want to trust you. Now I trust you less. If we finally lynch Made today (who I'll probably vote for unless something crazy happens) then the outcome of that will affect how I see you. At this point I'd probably still vote MM over you just because of my gut telling me he's bad. Maybe JC too though I'm beginning to turn away from her I think.

Sorry to chop off the rest of the quote, but the bolded part is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. How I view SVS really comes down to what Made is. And while I like it or not, I don't see any other way to get past this mental roadblock until we deal with Made.

So that being said, I'm sorry Made, but given your case on MR which I didn't believe, the general confusion you've caused (either intentionally or unintentionally), this thread needs to move on. And it cannot be with you. I've waffled on you many times in this game, so here's to hoping that my bad read of you is correct.

Votes Made

I agree w/ bwt and Bullz that we're not moving on to anything else until made is gone. Yes, I think Made is civ (I'm not sure, I don't have your preternatural ability to feel sure about things, Keterman), but I think so. But I've been expressing that opinion for days. No one else thinks so. Therefore, I'm willing to consider that I'm wrong. If it would make you feel better about me, I could ineffectually vote for Mongoose again, because that empty gesture would totally avoid the inevitable lynch of Made today. I think we need to move on. A townie might die. I hope that's not the case, but I've done what I could to sway popular opinion away from that and have been unsuccessful. The civiness of Made is not a hill I'm prepared to die on, so yeah. I'm going to concede this one, vote with the majority, and take my share of the blame if he turns up civ.

Your playstyle is to trust yourself more than you trust anyone else and stick to your guns no matter what. That is not my playstyle....and that's OK.

She claims she isn't voting Made for the same reasons as everyone else, but this post doesn't read as genuine to me. I think she was going for an easy, blendy, opportunistic vote here.

What's interesting to me is that in one of those quotes she essentially says she's voting for the same reasons as you and I voted but then apparently wasn't voting him for the same reasons as everyone else. Perhaps I'm misreading that but I agree it comes off shady. I had been seeing her as fairly civ though.

That's why I put her underneath SVS for now. I'm a bit more in the middle than you are (I could see her being either civvie or baddie currently), but I agree that I haven't seen enough to fully sway me away from Canuck possibly being civ.

juliets wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Forgot to address the second part too.

Long Con wrote:How does Llama know how Canuck does btsc enough to even attempt to.make that call? Is she a back-and-forth kind of player, jumping between chat and thread? Is the the type that leaves the forums altogether to engage in btsc? How much time is a reasonable estimate between posts to indicate baddie btsc? Is there a formula? How did Llama come to this conclusion? Does it really sound like a genuine suspicion, or a contrived one to serve a purpose?

I do agree with this though. I'm suspicious of Canuck, but it has nothing to do with llama's BTSC-esque case. I think she could be bad for a completely different reason.

bwt, i skimmed through your recent posts and havent seen you mention any reasons for canuck being bad. Looks like you have something specifically in mind here - would you share your thoughts?

Lol ironically, you posted this RIGHT as I was typing up a post that included my main reason for suspecting Canuck. The timing is kind of funny. :P

thellama73 wrote:SO bear with me here for a moment, folks. I have had a thought.

In typing my last post in which I noticed that LC is doing the very thing that SVS ALWAYS jumps on me for doing, and noting her lack of response, I began to wonder. And wonder pretty hard.

Long Con has done a good job of portraying himself as SVS's greatest adversary, but is he really? Let's look at the votes.

Day 1: Long Con cast the third vote for SVS after MP had seven. No danger to SVS there.
Day 2: Long Con voted for juliets. SVS took 0 votes. No danger to her there.
Day 3: Long Con cast the only vote for SVS after Made had three. No danger to SVS there.
Day 4: Long Con cast the 13th vote for Made. SVS took three votes. No danger to her there.
Day 5: Long Con, after talking about no one but SVS for ever, suddenly abandons his suspicion of her to come after me HARD for what seems to me to be no reason at all.

Now, it is possible SVS is keeping quiet just because she is thankful that attention has shifted away from her, but I submit to you that Long Con and SVS have been on a team this whole time, and engaging in some very clever distancing.

This is based on a) Long Con being vocally against SVS, but not actually voting for her when it could have made a difference. and
b) SVS staying silent about behavior that she consistently goes bananas over when others do it.

I would love to hear others' opinions about this, but as for me, I am going ahead and trusting my gut. Voting for SVS now.

The vote history is interesting here. I entertained the possibility slightly that the two of them could be teammates. But one of them would have to get lynched and come up bad before I would really go digging through and looking for connections. So time will tell on that one I guess.

Alright. So here's where I stand currently.

1)SVS: I still think she is very, very bad. Her defenses started off as fairly emotional and frustrated (which I've come to associate with civ SVS) to having an attitude of not really caring. I don't think a civ SVS would just lay down and give up when someone makes a really long list of reasons why they are accusing her (i.e. Keterman). Although IIRC, he even mentioned that he's not ready to vote for her yet which I think is kind of odd if he is willing to make a list of reasons why he suspects her. Also, my reason about her using Made for her own gains still rings true to me.

2)Canuck: I think llama's case on why Canuck is bad is based more off assumption. And it's not an assumption I agree with. While it's certainly within the realm of possibility, I think it more likely that Canuck is bad because I felt like she glomped onto my reasoning for voting Made:

Canucklehead wrote:Keterman, I'm not voting Made "because everyone else is". That's a pretty reductive and manipulative reading of my explanation.

This is the part of bwt I was saying I agreed with. Sorry I didn't quote it.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: I said that on Monday, it's now Saturday. A lot can happen in the space of a week. The seemer thing has made me distrust you because as I've said a few times I'm always wary of people who fall back on seemer accusations after civ lynches so the fact you're doing it before he's even been lynched is just grabbing my attention like crazy. It's not that I don't take you seriously, it's just that I find some of the things you're pushing to be a bit shifty. Not only the seemer thing but also the "let's lynch the people around Made before we lynch him" which you must admit can be taken to look as if you're his teammate trying to buy him some time. I did trust you at first but I always want to trust you. Now I trust you less. If we finally lynch Made today (who I'll probably vote for unless something crazy happens) then the outcome of that will affect how I see you. At this point I'd probably still vote MM over you just because of my gut telling me he's bad. Maybe JC too though I'm beginning to turn away from her I think.

Sorry to chop off the rest of the quote, but the bolded part is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. How I view SVS really comes down to what Made is. And while I like it or not, I don't see any other way to get past this mental roadblock until we deal with Made.

So that being said, I'm sorry Made, but given your case on MR which I didn't believe, the general confusion you've caused (either intentionally or unintentionally), this thread needs to move on. And it cannot be with you. I've waffled on you many times in this game, so here's to hoping that my bad read of you is correct.

Votes Made

I agree w/ bwt and Bullz that we're not moving on to anything else until made is gone. Yes, I think Made is civ (I'm not sure, I don't have your preternatural ability to feel sure about things, Keterman), but I think so. But I've been expressing that opinion for days. No one else thinks so. Therefore, I'm willing to consider that I'm wrong. If it would make you feel better about me, I could ineffectually vote for Mongoose again, because that empty gesture would totally avoid the inevitable lynch of Made today. I think we need to move on. A townie might die. I hope that's not the case, but I've done what I could to sway popular opinion away from that and have been unsuccessful. The civiness of Made is not a hill I'm prepared to die on, so yeah. I'm going to concede this one, vote with the majority, and take my share of the blame if he turns up civ.

Your playstyle is to trust yourself more than you trust anyone else and stick to your guns no matter what. That is not my playstyle....and that's OK.

She claims she isn't voting Made for the same reasons as everyone else, but this post doesn't read as genuine to me. I think she was going for an easy, blendy, opportunistic vote here.

3)LC: I've gone from civ to on the fence with him. I already mentioned his quick turnaround on llama. The only thing holding me back is he did previously midly suspect llama and gave reasons for doing so. So it's certainly possible he could have had a quick turnaround. But I think it's also possible he's trying to start a bandwagon against someone I've seen get lynched time and time again for his posting style. That, and I haven't seen anything yet to make me think llama is bad.

I'm going to vote SVS for now. I might possibly change it to Canuck, but at this point, I think she would have to come in and drop a bomb (or someone else would) for me to change my vote.

Votes SVS

Linki: Will read both posts in a minute here. Going to force my post through first.

Forgot to address the second part too.

Long Con wrote:How does Llama know how Canuck does btsc enough to even attempt to.make that call? Is she a back-and-forth kind of player, jumping between chat and thread? Is the the type that leaves the forums altogether to engage in btsc? How much time is a reasonable estimate between posts to indicate baddie btsc? Is there a formula? How did Llama come to this conclusion? Does it really sound like a genuine suspicion, or a contrived one to serve a purpose?

I do agree with this though. I'm suspicious of Canuck, but it has nothing to do with llama's BTSC-esque case. I think she could be bad for a completely different reason.

Long Con wrote:

nijuukyugou wrote: 2) I think LC's sudden turn on llama for a comment I thought was rather innocuous to be...odd. I've seen other people accuse players of only being on when it's convenient and possibly being in a chat, so...not really understanding why THAT happened to be the comment that set him off. Is there more to the case than "That's what a baddie would say!" LC? I'm curious

There is more than that, bloop, that's like, the last thing I said to him. I suspected him back in the early game when he claimed not to know the meaning of the phrase "you would know", and the accusation of Canuck having btsc because of Llama's analysis of her posting frequency, which I think is not a realistic thing to say, and therefore must have other motives driving it.

How does Llama know how Canuck does btsc enough to even attempt to.make that call? Is she a back-and-forth kind of player, jumping between chat and thread? Is the the type that leaves the forums altogether to engage in btsc? How much time is a reasonable estimate between posts to indicate baddie btsc? Is there a formula? How did Llama come to this conclusion? Does it really sound like a genuine suspicion, or a contrived one to serve a purpose?

I know you suspected him earlier in the game, but to me, it really seemed like you were willing to drop your suspicions of llama because either the two of you had a common enemy in SVS or you were more suspicious of her. So to me, it does feel like you made a very quick turnaround. Especially to go from not really mentioning being suspicious of llama for awhile to "Oh, I'm voting him now because he's Baddie McBadikins."

Keterman wrote:Hmmmm....re-evaluating my reads at the moment. I'm biased against a scum read on Llama because to me he acts scummy all of the time, almost literally every post he makes. SVS's defenses have sounded genuine to me so far. Canucklehead I'm unsure about. I'll see where the day goes before I make any conclusions.

It's funny you say that, because it's the exact opposite of how I feel. I'm even more convinced that she is possibly bad now. Especially those 4 or 5 points you made on her earlier. I've agreed with the majority of it (probably not the "sloppy defense" part), and I was already thinking she was bad before then.

Sorry I haven't been around. Will catch up tomorrow.

Dana wrote:Friends, let me present to you my prime suspect: thellama73

So the day that Made was actually lynched, it may seem like SVS led everyone to vote for him, but don't forget that it was Llama who planted the seed. I feel like Llama could now being using SVS (who I don't think is bad) as cover to get yet another good guy lynched tomorrow.

Llama also seems to be picking the littlest things to focus on and target people with.

Example one: Made's comment in the first day challenge thing. That tiny little insignificant "haha I bet they aren't doing this on the other team" statement became such a big deal and dominated the thread for pages and pages. Why? Because Llama was convinced it meant Made had baddie btsc.

Example two: LC's question. Yes, I admit it was a little odd, but not THAT weird. Especially not enough to still be bringing up and talking about and focusing on. Of course wording is important but I don't think LC saying "Who do you think will be lynched?" instead of "Who do you want to lynch?" was as big of a deal as Llama is making it out to be.

I also did not like AT ALL his reasoning for voting Made the day MR was lynched.

thellama73 wrote: Frankly, at this point, the only chance I think I have at understanding this game at all depends on knowing Made's role. I am going to cast my vote for him now. I have to know!

This is not okay with me at all. We all want to know what other's roles are but I don't think that's a good enough reason to lynch someone. This seemed to me very much like a "lynch him and get it overwith" attitude. As long as Made wasn't on his team, might as well vote for him and get him killed, right? There was definitely a lot of suspicion on Made the whole game, but I feel like Llama wasn't actually trying to figure out honestly if Made was good or bad. Llama didn't seem to care and just wanted Made gone, which I find super fishy.

Whoa. This looks interesting. Unfortunately I'm leaving for work right about now, so I will read it tomorrow.

I wasn't thinking much about a lover's role as a strong possibility. At the time, I figured AP's lynch was a result from a baddie switch, and I felt that was much more likely given the circumstances.

Also, I forgot to mention my answer to my vote. My favorite color is green.

Some recent thoughts then.

I would imagine God is a non-player role who has, at most, some limited degree of information. Or perhaps none at all. So I'm not sure how much I trust his/her judgement in terms of knowing we're looking in the wrong direction. I'd need some hard evidence to believe otherwise.

I still think SVS is very, very bad. And I still think she was using Made to her ends. Given how Enrique ended up being a bad recruit though, it makes me think her claiming to be actively hunting baddies is still true, and that she is on a separate baddie team from him.

Not sure how I feel about LC possibly being bad. I need to think about it more and look over his posts some.

Not sure how I feel about anyone else yet, other than Boogs. I would really like to hear more from him since he's barely posted and has only focused on Enrique and Made.

Long Con wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Long Con wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I still think he was bad and nothing will convince me otherwise.

So you're in S~V~S' camp, and believe he was some Seemed type... How do you feel about her now?

Oh she is a Baddie McBadderson all right.

Agreed.

I would also agree with this notion.

Hmmmm...well dammit. RIP Made!

The good news of this is that I know where to go tomorrow.

Why ugh?

Bullzeye wrote: I said that on Monday, it's now Saturday. A lot can happen in the space of a week. The seemer thing has made me distrust you because as I've said a few times I'm always wary of people who fall back on seemer accusations after civ lynches so the fact you're doing it before he's even been lynched is just grabbing my attention like crazy. It's not that I don't take you seriously, it's just that I find some of the things you're pushing to be a bit shifty. Not only the seemer thing but also the "let's lynch the people around Made before we lynch him" which you must admit can be taken to look as if you're his teammate trying to buy him some time. I did trust you at first but I always want to trust you. Now I trust you less. If we finally lynch Made today (who I'll probably vote for unless something crazy happens) then the outcome of that will affect how I see you. At this point I'd probably still vote MM over you just because of my gut telling me he's bad. Maybe JC too though I'm beginning to turn away from her I think.

Sorry to chop off the rest of the quote, but the bolded part is pretty much the conclusion I have come to. How I view SVS really comes down to what Made is. And while I like it or not, I don't see any other way to get past this mental roadblock until we deal with Made.

So that being said, I'm sorry Made, but given your case on MR which I didn't believe, the general confusion you've caused (either intentionally or unintentionally), this thread needs to move on. And it cannot be with you. I've waffled on you many times in this game, so here's to hoping that my bad read of you is correct.

Votes Made

S~V~S wrote:Yeah. Enrique was the person I thought of as Mades biggest cheerleader. On Day Zero, before Enrique could have possibly been recruited, Made made a comment about how there could be BTS other than baddie BTS. I asked him if he were implying that HE had civvie BTS, and Enrique basically slapped my wrist and told me not to target paint, somewhat more subtly than that, but that was his point. So that was when I backed off of Made, and got into the whole me vs MP thing. Then after that, Enrique & Made started making little suspecting motions towards each other, then suddenly stopped (that was when Made started saying he just said he suspected Enrique to gauge peoples judgment, or something to that effect) and that is when i started suspecting Made again. Civ BTS partners don't need to distance, or throw each other under the bus, or revise their opinions of each other.

So yeah, Enrique coming up bad had a big part in my change of heart. It's a theory; I don't know it to be true, but given the fact that people were overtly defending Made makes it seem a reasonable theory to me.

Alright. Thanks for the reply. I'll ponder this and decide later this afternoon. With my work schedule this weekend, I will probably have to vote today or else there's a good chance I could miss it.

S~V~S wrote:
Linki, BWT, I switched becasuse I wanted to lynch somone from his circle of trust first in case he was a Seemer role. If Made was to come back civ, that would have granted people some cred. Although that did not happen, one of them, Enrique, died in the night and was revealed bad. So if Made does come up as civ, unless he is Concordes expected friend, I will not accord any extra trust to those that defended Made. Quite the opposite.

I have repeated this pretty extensively, BWT.

I know you have. You're the one who has really propagated the possibility of a seemer role. And while I wouldn't put it past Roxy to throw in something like that in a game where we don't know all the roles, Occam's Razor says the possibility of such a role existing is pure speculation.

I mean, I get what you're saying here. The part I'm confused about is why you are so willing to vote for Made now even when you still think he's a seemer. Is it because of Enrique getting revealed as a recruited baddie?

^ This. Sorry, Dennis. But I'm not going through with making a list either.

Someone mentioned that the current debate probably isn't going away until either Made or SVS goes away. And while I'm eager to stick away from Made right now and look elsewhere, I think I have to admit that that is probably true.

However, I'm conflicted. Because Made's defense sounds to me like he's reached desperation mode, which normally reads baddie to me. But I also wonder why SVS flipped so quickly, and/or why she wasn't willing to vote for Made back on Day 3. In other words: was Enrique's alignment what really made her change her stance, or did she think Made was no longer useful to her cause.

Basically, I think there's a strong chance both of them are bad. But I can't decide which one I think is more bad.

bea wrote:Fuck. rip Mr.

This day went from.shitty to.a. damn dissaster and even Mafia.can't.go.right

I can't even cope.right.now.

Sorry bea! *Hugz* Hope tomorrow is better!

juliets wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote: I'm not asking you to re-state suspicions. I'm asking you what you opinion is of LC and SVS. Statements like that make me think you're afraid of making a commitment, and make me more likely to think you're bad. But you might be able to clear up what my mind is thinking.

It's not like I'm saying for sure I'm going to vote for you. I just want to see you give a hard opinion on something. Because I don't feel like you have this game. At all.

Linki: Who is scum-aligned then, in your opinion?

So BWT here is what you said to me - my opinion of SVS and LC. I then re-printed the post I made last night clearly showing I was leaning good on SVS and LC, thus my thought was they were civ. That is my opinion of SVS and LC. I do not understand what you are asking me if it is not what you stated - my opinion of SVS and LC. Are you trying to ask me something else because my list is the answer to your question.

I knew that. I thought you might have a more in-depth explanation of why you felt they were civ. But apparently not.

Enrique wrote:

BWT wrote:and I may not touch Made with a 20-foot pole the rest of this game because of how big that can of worms has become.

You're encouraged to voice your opinion. As long as it's genuine, you should have nothing to fear.

It's not so much my opinion on Made. It's that I am so baffled by him that it might take me awhile to develop one of him again.

juliets wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Alright. I think I've decided.

I am not voting for Made or MR. I don't really see a strong enough case on MR, and I may not touch Made with a 20-foot pole the rest of this game because of how big that can of worms has become. I am going to stick with juliets this time around. While I appreciate her trying to be helpful and showing me her list and whatnot, I still feel like she refused to give me a direct opinion on something....when I asked her 3 times to do so. So it felt like she was deliberately avoiding answering my question about LC and SVS.

Votes Juliets

Linki: Rey, you should vote for someone other than MR and Made. Because I smell something funny coming from this lynch.

What did i refuse to give you an opinion on?

SVS vs. LC. I am asking as to why you feel about both the way you do. And I still don't feel like you've answered that.

Wow. Talk about this thread exploding again. RIP MR! Still don't know what so many people saw in you.

Will catch up in a second.

Alright. I think I've decided.

I am not voting for Made or MR. I don't really see a strong enough case on MR, and I may not touch Made with a 20-foot pole the rest of this game because of how big that can of worms has become. I am going to stick with juliets this time around. While I appreciate her trying to be helpful and showing me her list and whatnot, I still feel like she refused to give me a direct opinion on something....when I asked her 3 times to do so. So it felt like she was deliberately avoiding answering my question about LC and SVS.

Votes Juliets

Linki: Rey, you should vote for someone other than MR and Made. Because I smell something funny coming from this lynch.

Alright. Thanks for that then, JC.

I need some time to sit and reflect on all of this before I vote.

Keterman wrote:See vote.

And why do you think MR is bad?

juliets wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

juliets wrote:BWT, I'm between a rock and a hard place. Canuck is suspish because she thinks I only asked the question so LC's suspicions would be listed again, thus being bad for SVS (at least thats what I interpreted that she said). You want me to say here what LC's suspicions of SVS are, though I'm not sure of the reason you want me to do that. Either way I go someone is going to be displeased.

I'm not asking you to re-state suspicions. I'm asking you what you opinion is of LC and SVS. Statements like that make me think you're afraid of making a commitment, and make me more likely to think you're bad. But you might be able to clear up what my mind is thinking.

It's not like I'm saying for sure I'm going to vote for you. I just want to see you give a hard opinion on something. Because I don't feel like you have this game. At all.

Linki: Who is scum-aligned then, in your opinion?

BWT - I made a whole list did you not see it? It had who I thought was good, who I wasnt sure of and who I was suspicious of besides made. If you didn't see it I'll find the linky for it.

I did, but I couldn't find it for some reason. Could you link me to it?

Also, you're still beating around the bush here.

juliets wrote:BWT, I'm between a rock and a hard place. Canuck is suspish because she thinks I only asked the question so LC's suspicions would be listed again, thus being bad for SVS (at least thats what I interpreted that she said). You want me to say here what LC's suspicions of SVS are, though I'm not sure of the reason you want me to do that. Either way I go someone is going to be displeased.

I'm not asking you to re-state suspicions. I'm asking you what you opinion is of LC and SVS. Statements like that make me think you're afraid of making a commitment, and make me more likely to think you're bad. But you might be able to clear up what my mind is thinking.

It's not like I'm saying for sure I'm going to vote for you. I just want to see you give a hard opinion on something. Because I don't feel like you have this game. At all.

Linki: Who is scum-aligned then, in your opinion?

juliets wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote: And Bullz, that was the one case about JC that I wasn't quite sure about. Reading back though looking for that Made quote about MR, I remember the conversation LC and JC had had, and that was what pinged me with her before.

Also, are you talking about the posts where LC thought I had brought up something about Made that was far fetched and it pinged him, and it turned out somebody else brought the point up earlier than me and it didn't ping him. When I finally was able to prove that he backed off that point.

And BWT I already re-read it and now understand what LC's reasons were.

Alright. Did you already state what you took away from it or not? Because if you did, I missed it.

juliets wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by me trying not to take sides? Why would I have even asked the question if I'm trying to stay out of it and not take sides? I ask a lot of questions, sometimes they are good and sometimes others may see them as foolish but that's how I baddie hunt.

I know you do. But I feel like LC has made it fairly clear why he suspects SVS multiple times, and she has offered detailed defenses.

If you have time before the lynch ends, I would suggest going back and reading it. Because your response may determine if I vote for you or not.

Canucklehead wrote:

juliets wrote:LonG Con, if you're still around, can you be more specific about why you are voting for SVS? Is it something she said, some way that she's been acting, or just a feeling?

linki - yes bullz i ask a lot of questions. It's a hallmark of my style.

Juliets, this is a really weird question. LC and SVS have had several back-and-forths where his suspicion of her was outlined and explained in great detail, and her responses were also very detailed. What more specificity are you looking for? Or are you subtly trying to keep putting the SVS suspicion out into the thread in the hopes that people will latch onto it? I'm not sure who you might be trying to protect by doing this....
Need to think on it...

Yeah, I thought both LC and SVS had explained their feelings about each other quite clearly. This feels too much like JC trying to play it safe and not take sides.

And Bullz, that was the one case about JC that I wasn't quite sure about. Reading back though looking for that Made quote about MR, I remember the conversation LC and JC had had, and that was what pinged me with her before.

As for Made's case about MR, I agree on some points and disagree on others. I think he pushed for Made earlier on, but I do agree that he can usually be a bit slower to start up at the beginning of games. I feel mixed enough that I will not be voting for MR today.

thellama73 wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:
What I am saying is we should NOT lynch Made; unless he flips bad, we learn nothing and spent the rest of the game arguing over a speculation. I think we should lynch someone in his circle of trust and see what happens. Becasue him being a Seemer is the best explanation I can come up with for that circle of trust. The same people keep coming in to shore him up; you, Enrique, Canuck. But why? That is what I am trying to solve for. I thought early in the game that he & Enrique had civ BTS, but both have pushed against each other, which civ BTS partners would not need to do. You have a fairly constant low level protection of him going on, and you & Canuck seem pretty simpatico. Then she is the biggest proponent of the Lovers thing. I was wondering which of the three of you would make this post. Not too surprised it was you.

Running late today. Not sure what I plan to do just yet, votewise, I had less time this cycle than I would have liked, that pesky family

I won't be voting for Made.

Ugh. I keep going back and forth on this idea. I know I said I'm most likely voting for him today, but there's that little voice in the back of my head that keeps saying it won't accomplish anything.

Alright. I won't necessarily vote for Made today. I will take that back. But I REALLY need to think long and hard about this.

I disagree with SVS. I think we learn a lot if he flips civ.

I think part of my problem is that I feel like I've focused way too much on Made, and not enough on some of the other cases that have been presented. The only one I feel confident about is with MM, and I do not agree with the case on him or think he's bad.

I might go and re-read Made's case on MR again. I didn't really pay much attention to it, other than acknowledging that he had made a case. I want to see if I see anything there.

Linki: Possibly, but I can understand his reasoning. I just think that there are other ways we can go about figuring out other potential baddies. And I would prefer to try one of those.

Linki2: Compared to llama, no. But everyone is compared to me, yes. :P

S~V~S wrote:
What I am saying is we should NOT lynch Made; unless he flips bad, we learn nothing and spent the rest of the game arguing over a speculation. I think we should lynch someone in his circle of trust and see what happens. Becasue him being a Seemer is the best explanation I can come up with for that circle of trust. The same people keep coming in to shore him up; you, Enrique, Canuck. But why? That is what I am trying to solve for. I thought early in the game that he & Enrique had civ BTS, but both have pushed against each other, which civ BTS partners would not need to do. You have a fairly constant low level protection of him going on, and you & Canuck seem pretty simpatico. Then she is the biggest proponent of the Lovers thing. I was wondering which of the three of you would make this post. Not too surprised it was you.

Running late today. Not sure what I plan to do just yet, votewise, I had less time this cycle than I would have liked, that pesky family

I won't be voting for Made.

Ugh. I keep going back and forth on this idea. I know I said I'm most likely voting for him today, but there's that little voice in the back of my head that keeps saying it won't accomplish anything.

Alright. I won't necessarily vote for Made today. I will take that back. But I REALLY need to think long and hard about this.

Really, really sorry everyone! I've been crazy nuts busy with work the last few days, plus I'm getting over a cold/really bad allergies. I've been fairly good about keeping up, but terrible about posting because either my mind is in a haze or I'm just mentally drained. Will finish catching up today and post a bit more though.

thellama73 wrote:I'm starting to think we are dealing with the ballsiest mafia team in mafia history.

No kidding. I really was entertaining the thought of Made being good, but now it seems like he's intentionally acting like he is confused about Canuck's theory (which I thought was pretty easy to grasp) and claiming he knows how he survived over AP. Plus I'm so unsure about anyone else I'm suspicious of, because I feel like it ties back into whether or not Made is bad in each case. So I very well may be voting for him today unless I see something that really convinces me otherwise.

I was wondering that too. However, I am more than willing to examine his case and MR a bit more. I said I would be willing to consider someone else other than Made if he could convince me there is someone else who is potentially more bad than him. So I will be fair and give him a chance.

Canucklehead wrote:While I appreciate the props, Enrique, I can't claim to have come up with the idea out of thin air. It was bea's exchange with LC here that made me think of it:

bea wrote:

Long Con wrote:Sorry for the non-response, Juliets. I had actually typed a response on my phone that was basically "That's interesting, if anyone could show me an example because I can't really read back right now", but it got linkitis'ed without me realizing it. It wouldn't have mattered because I didn't really get to check in until I just caught up now.

RIP A Person. I've seen plenty of Civvie roles that can switch a lynch, and probably ones that can reflect a lynch once or something, so I don't find the situation to be instantly incriminating to Made. However, the way he has been acting since then is a bit sketchy, as several people have pointed out. I'm gonna have to say that Made will likely get my vote. It doesn't look like he'll need it to get lynched anyway, but there you go.

We haven't gotten Concorde's role revealed yet.

I tried to allude to that earlier - that given the game source - I can see ONE scenario where a switch wasn't what went down.

I'm wondering if we won't see Concorde's role revealed for that very reason.

I still wait to see if I could be wrong about that.

Exactly.

All I will say is, read those quotes between bea and LC and hopefully it will click. For those of you who aren't seeing it that is.

I still think Made is likely bad, but there you go.

Canucklehead wrote:I don't think it's a switch, peeps, as the civ option I'm proposing. Can no one infer what I'm getting at? I'd really LOVE for you all to try and understand my gist.

No, I entirely get what you're saying. I think there is a possible civ option in play here. I just find it extremely unlikely.

Canucklehead wrote:Also, I'm a little shocked that many players are refusing to see how the lynching of AP in Made's stead could actually be an indication of Made's civviness, not baddiness. I'm of the mind that it is pretty much a coin flip either way.

Take off the blinders, folks.

linki: Hooray for houseboats! So much superior to regular boats and regular houses! I look forward to your response, Mongoooose.

I interpreted it as a desperate, last second lynch switch. Which would make me think it more likely that Made is bad. Especially since AP's self-vote came so close to the deadline.

There's only one way I could see Made being good, and I think it's a very unlikely scenario.

bea wrote:llama - I'm ok with that. It just so happens that I think Lorab is superfly with a cherry on top. really - who doesn't love a rabbi? Jesus was one afterall

I've been wanting to use that one with Lorab for YEARS, and have never had the opportunity to do so before. You have no idea how happy you've made me, bea.

Also, Lord, I'm pretty sure this sums up how you feel about all us non-voters. We humbly ask for your forgiveness.



This counts on you having a sense of humor. So it depends on if it is your Old Testament self or New Testament self.

And I forgot to vote in the poll too. I think cherries are the best bet for floating, with bread a close second if you toss it in in little pieces. At least, that's what I remember from feeding ducks when I was younger. But I'm going to go with cherries just to be safe. And in case both of the hosts don't allow for creative interpretation.

Made wrote:

Made wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Made wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Now, now, I was merely being hypothetical.

It's funny, this comment from you pings Me also

Do you know what a "No U" is? Because that's a classic example of it right there.

I do not, if it's a special mafia term anyways. I just found his responces as snarky/cocky so I said he was suspicious also.

I later retracted this point.

I saw that later on. So yeah, I take my post back as well.

I still have my eye squarely on you for the next lynch though. Unfortunately for you, I think the only possible way out of this is if you can convince enough people that someone else is more likely to be bad than you, and give good in-thread examples. Because at this point, unless someone else comes along and drops a bomb (or admits that they are bad), my vote is going to you.

Made wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote:

Enrique wrote:Yeah llama I really should have the whole game figured out from the get-go shouldn't I :/

I'm glad you've moved over to the Made-train now that he's outlived his usefulness to your team. Should give you oodles of civ-cred.

Dear God,
I am a sinner, who's probably gonna sin again. Lord for give me(Lord for give me) for things I don't understand. I just want to be alone.
Bitch don't kill my vibe

I suspect you MR. So hard man, so hard. Enrique, ride with me, and by the end of this, you will have so much civvie cred, then probably die night 3 for being the only person to trust ya boy made the entire game, making you a super obvious civvie right?

Also, goddamn you for using the idea I was going to use after I finished catching up. You suck in multiple ways. :P

Made wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Now, now, I was merely being hypothetical.

It's funny, this comment from you pings Me also

Do you know what a "No U" is? Because that's a classic example of it right there.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I missed the vote.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Not Matt though!

Made wrote:Also. For those who care, history is repeating itself. Mafia kept me alive because I'd be an easy lynch for the next day.
Read misfits, basically.

Well, I think I know who I'm voting for tomorrow.

I have to leave around 5, so I'm holding off to vote until the last possible minute. I'm leaning towards JC because some of Hedge's posts from today have made me back off there a bit.