The Syndicate

Spacedaisy wrote:to the player responsible for that display, I would like to express my deepest thanks. Blackmail for YEARS to come....!

I think we have something to play to the audience at the wedding reception now.

Alright everyone. I'm really sorry to have to do this, but I just PMed both hosts and asked to be replaced. I haven't read and/or looked at anything since the last time I posted, I won't have a chance to catch up until the end of this week. But I also leave for vacation on Friday, which will probably leave me at no time to spend on mafia stuff. As much as I enjoyed this game, I thought I could handle it with a crazy work schedule. And unfortunately, I cannot.

I did briefly skim and see that we got BR as a baddie (w00t! for that), but otherwise that's all I've seen. Good luck civvies and hopefully my replacement fills my shoes well enough! :P

Turnip Head wrote:I think we should talk about this. Who would rather be taxed $1 every 3 Days? Who would rather be taxed 30% of all earnings?

I'd almost think 30% of all earnings would hurt the mafia more on one condition...

@Hosts: Feel free to ignore this if someone else already asked it before I finished my catch-up, but...

Are the mafia allowed to pool their income and resources together or not?

thellama73 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:LOL the hosts are on the poll! Were they before? I don't think so.
Don't vote for me. I have modkills and I'm not afraid to use them.

In that case...

Baddies, please vote for the hosts and save us the trouble. :P

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:birdwithteeth11

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I tend to wait as late as I possibly can to vote. When RL doesn't get in the way, sometimes it is 30 minutes or less before the poll ends. I like to wait as late as possible because I want as much information as I can get before I vote. Sometimes things happen towards the end of a lynch period that make me change my mind.
i would echo these sentiments. my vote ended up useless, so functionally i was no better in the tally than BTW11 was. i waited as long as i could because it was only bloody vote and i wanted to make the best use of it. eventually though the tally became a landslide and it didn't matter anymore. i think players of both alignments will generally be more interesting in holding their votes to ensure total control over their part in the result.

We agree here. Not much for me to note really.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:And it wasn't RL that made me miss the vote. It was me trying to catch up in the thread and losing track of time. I thought I had more time than I did, looked down, and noticed I had almost no time left to vote. So I panicked and went to try and vote, and it had already gone past the deadline.
this bit thought must be believed or not believed at face value. i do struggle to envision myself encountering this dilemma at least -- if i am active in a game near the end of the phase, then my eyes are frequently visiting the clock on the computer. losing track of time at a stage when time is critically important would be a pretty big flub. i can also ask myself though if there's anything a mafioso stands to gain from skipping a vote intentionally instead of just dropping it on someone ineffectively.

With some hosts, missing votes causes one to not be allowed to use their night abilities. Not sure what the policy is with llama and Russ in this game. But I think for mafia, it's more about voting patterns rather than if one votes or doesn't vote.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i'd like to echo a point made by sanmateo and Sloonei. DDL has put a lot of work into describing why he wouldn't play the way he has played as mafia. and in so doing, he has acknowledged the WIFOM nature of that mindset. this would make him a very self-aware mafioso.

but wait, what if he is very self-aware of the notion of being a self-aware mafioso? let's visit his comment directed at me:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:If you are mafia, you are one of the most self-aware players I've ever seen.
this could be called an unintentional self-diagnosis.
Hmmmmmm....interesting. I'll go back and look at it myself.
this tweaked me a little bit. the point i made there against DDL was pretty specific, meaning the chances of it being grounded in reality were inherently not as high as some of the assertions i've made in this thread. what was interesting about it, BWT? have you looked back yet, and if so what did you find?

I did. I'll double-check, but I think the next quote I pulled and posted after my post here was about that. If I did comment on it, I'll just link to the post.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i threw my vote on Elo. every other option is mathematically impossible. and she's a red read. so cool beans.
Same point here. Why throwing a vote that has no chance of changing anything?

You did point right after that that you were aware of the possibility of mafia knowing the lynch was inevitable though, which is interesting. If you are mafia, you are one of the most self-aware players I've ever seen.
If someone votes for a player that has no chance of getting lynched in, say, one or two lynches in a game, that's different IMO from someone who constantly does it throughout the game. Once or twice (or more if it's the same person over and over) I'm okay with because I generally interpret it as a civ thing to be going after the player you are most suspicious of. If one person gives it enough attention over time, it can cause other people to go and examine exactly what the original poster is seeing with a certain player.

Now if you're voting for people who have no chance of being lynched, and constantly throw your vote around on different players, then I view that as more absolving yourself of a lynch. Which looks more like a baddie act.

So I don't think "throwing a vote that has no chance of changing anything" is an exercise in futility. It can pay off down the road sometimes.
i'm not exactly sure what point BWT11 is making here, so i am just hoping he can clarify? it sounds like he is lending me a little support for my late Elohcin vote, but the reason for his support doesn't make sense as i understand it. it seems he is suggesting i was piling on Elohcin because it'd get more attention on her later in the game from other players seeking to understand my case against her. but she was about to be lynched and thus die, so that is a strange concept. can you reword this somehow?

i was gut-leaning town on this guy earlier in the game, but i have less conviction for that now.

That post was directed at DDL, not at you. I was stating that I felt that voting someone who doesn't have a chance of getting lynched isn't necessarily a futile effort or a baddie trying to withhold any responsibility with their vote. And I felt like DDL's statement was that since I did that with Bass, that that's automatically a bad thing. I think it takes more evidence and context than such a simple declaration.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i threw my vote on Elo. every other option is mathematically impossible. and she's a red read. so cool beans.
Same point here. Why throwing a vote that has no chance of changing anything?

You did point right after that that you were aware of the possibility of mafia knowing the lynch was inevitable though, which is interesting. If you are mafia, you are one of the most self-aware players I've ever seen.

If someone votes for a player that has no chance of getting lynched in, say, one or two lynches in a game, that's different IMO from someone who constantly does it throughout the game. Once or twice (or more if it's the same person over and over) I'm okay with because I generally interpret it as a civ thing to be going after the player you are most suspicious of. If one person gives it enough attention over time, it can cause other people to go and examine exactly what the original poster is seeing with a certain player.

Now if you're voting for people who have no chance of being lynched, and constantly throw your vote around on different players, then I view that as more absolving yourself of a lynch. Which looks more like a baddie act.

So I don't think "throwing a vote that has no chance of changing anything" is an exercise in futility. It can pay off down the road sometimes.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i'd like to echo a point made by sanmateo and Sloonei. DDL has put a lot of work into describing why he wouldn't play the way he has played as mafia. and in so doing, he has acknowledged the WIFOM nature of that mindset. this would make him a very self-aware mafioso.

but wait, what if he is very self-aware of the notion of being a self-aware mafioso? let's visit his comment directed at me:

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:If you are mafia, you are one of the most self-aware players I've ever seen.
this could be called an unintentional self-diagnosis.

Hmmmmmm....interesting. I'll go back and look at it myself.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:SON OF A.....

I saw I had about 30 seconds left (I thought), went to click on the bubble next to Bass' name, and then went to vote....and it wouldn't accept my vote because it was past the deadline. Oh well.

But yeah, if I could have voted, I would have voted for Bass probably. DDL would be a close second for his pressing Elo on her Golden vote, and DDL's voicing suspicion of her, but then going with an aether vote which seemed like an easy cop-out to me.

Might as well finish catching up for now.

Linki: If Elo flips civ, I think DDL is definitely getting a closer look from me. The only person I remember having anything resembling a substantial case on her is MP. I feel like there was one more player but I can't remember right now who it is.

That, and I think it's more likely Elo comes up civ because of all the weak reasons IMO I saw for voting for her. Seemed like an easy target unfortunately.

Linki: Holy shit did NOT expect that at ALL!
Calls me a cop out, but doesn't vote. Could be real life, but the guy was pretty active at the end of the phase. So am I too believe that he stayed active for the entire final hour, and for some reason decided to wait until the last few minutes to vote, but then something happened and he had to look away from the computer at the exact time the phase ended?

Wouldn't it be better to just, you know, vote half an hour earlier? It's not like you would have changed anything, but at least you would have avoided the possible host punishment?

If anything, that is the cop out. Sure, he may be punished by the mod, but this isn't the first instance I've seen of a player eating a mod punishment on purpose just to be able to stay away from the fray.

I tend to wait as late as I possibly can to vote. When RL doesn't get in the way, sometimes it is 30 minutes or less before the poll ends. I like to wait as late as possible because I want as much information as I can get before I vote. Sometimes things happen towards the end of a lynch period that make me change my mind.

And it wasn't RL that made me miss the vote. It was me trying to catch up in the thread and losing track of time. I thought I had more time than I did, looked down, and noticed I had almost no time left to vote. So I panicked and went to try and vote, and it had already gone past the deadline.

I stick by what I said about your aether vote though. Why voice your suspicion of Elo as much as you did, and then suddenly switch gears?

Should have been OT. Sorry.

MovingPictures07 wrote:EVERYONE IS MAFIA, TOWN LOSE

So, ummmmmm.....who do we kill next then?

It's probably good that I had to run off to dinner. Because I saw JJJ's initial post and got really super-frustrated. But now I've calmed down quite a bit and can explain.

1) As to why I ducked out so quickly, I had to leave to help finish getting dinner ready. We ate, conversed, and even threw in a game of Euchre after dinner. So I left because I decided family time was more important than a metagame in a mafia game. Shocking, I know, that I'd want to have a life outside of this. Clearly there is something wrong with me. :P

2) I was trying to finish my catching up as JJJ's game/exercise was starting. I was trying to get a post in, and kept getting linkitis over and over again. I was trying to make funny/silly comments about it, and thus wasn't fully paying attention to the rules of the exercise. I only looked back after the fact and realized that I couldn't post my feelings on someone as 'neutral'. Which is a good thing I worded it the way I did, because otherwise I would have replied with 'neutral'.

Hope that satisfies your curiosity!

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:The best way to describe Vompatti is that he's the most Dadaist/avant-garde mafia player you could imagine. I can't think of any other way to describe it.

I think the guy's extremely hard to read, and he's been lynched a ton as a civvie because of this. Of course, he's also been lynched as a baddie for sometimes the same reasons as when he's a civ.
if any of you good Syndicateers ever come to RYM for a game, bring Vompatti along and we'll make sure chumlum plays

1) IF we can convince him.

2) LOL good luck with that.

Linki: Oh okay. In that case, aye. I may have to leave shortly for dinner though. So if I disappear in the middle of this, that's why.

Linki 2: Neutral. If I can't do that, then town.

Linki 3: I've had 10 posts come through in the time it takes to type my linkis. You guys are nuts lol.

Linki 4: Make that a dozen.

fingersplints wrote:I meant I was interested in your responses to Roxys questions.

Did you feel like I answered them adequately then?

Linki: Maybe. I want a general idea of what I'm about to get into. Although I do like games! :yay:

Roxy wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:Le snipped

Sloonei wrote:
sanmateo wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Elohcin -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Slight civilian read, #3 no change) -- DROP! Fixated on me all game, then suddenly had opinions on a ton of players with no explanation, including "leaning civilian" on Golden. Then continues to subtly push heat on me until I had an emotional breakdown, upon which she says that both (1) the breakdown doesn't bode well for me yet (2) votes Golden with literally no explanation. Could it get any objectively more scummy than this?
i think you are being manipulative with this, the problem for me isnt that she focused on you but that she had golden as a civilian read and without building a case she flipped and voted for him

at this point i think as scum team of elo + mp07 is more likely than elo + epi, if elo and epi were scum teams their voting would have been very clumsy. in any case i think everyone should focus on getting 1 scum and work their way back instead of trying to catch the whole scum team at once.
Another interesting observation that I'd not really considered. How common is it for scum partners to outright bus each other from Day 1 over here?
Depends on the player. Some will go after teammates left and right and some are completely adamant about throwing teammates under the bus unless absolutely necessary. For Day 1 though, I would consider that to be quite uncommon. I can't remember a time that's happened that springs to mind. But if I'm wrong, someone feel free to correct me.
I've thrown a teammate under on Day 1.
WWE anyone?

Herpa de derp. I should have remembered that one.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
Night 2: Population Control

"So," the economists said in unison. "You want to keep the population down, do you, Malthus? Well, welcome to You Town. Population: zero!"

Serves him right for having terrible theories.

So true. Awesome.

Yeah. I loled at that one too.

Alright, so for everyone who was bouncing around theories of Elo and Epig being connected, how do you feel about Epig now? Because I'd be more likely to lean civ on him.

Also, BIH Elo!

Sad to see you go but not your role!

SON OF A.....

I saw I had about 30 seconds left (I thought), went to click on the bubble next to Bass' name, and then went to vote....and it wouldn't accept my vote because it was past the deadline.

Oh well.

But yeah, if I could have voted, I would have voted for Bass probably. DDL would be a close second for his pressing Elo on her Golden vote, and DDL's voicing suspicion of her, but then going with an aether vote which seemed like an easy cop-out to me.

Might as well finish catching up for now.

Linki: If Elo flips civ, I think DDL is definitely getting a closer look from me. The only person I remember having anything resembling a substantial case on her is MP. I feel like there was one more player but I can't remember right now who it is.

That, and I think it's more likely Elo comes up civ because of all the weak reasons IMO I saw for voting for her. Seemed like an easy target unfortunately.

Linki: Holy shit did NOT expect that at ALL!

MovingPictures07 wrote:
sanmateo wrote:that vomp guy is being really secretive
His meta is hands down the most bizarre of anyone at this forum, easily. I've really given up trying to understand him, but I can't help but try at times anyway.

I've seen him say in more than a couple games blatantly that he's rooting for the mafia regardless of alignment, for example.

But I've also seen him actually participate in the game a couple of times (early in his mafia career) as a somewhat active civilian willing to voice his opinions, even if they did occasionally still have the bizarre Vomps-reactionary flavor to them.

So I really have no idea what to expect from him here other than likely zaniness.

To all our new players:

The best way to describe Vompatti is that he's the most Dadaist/avant-garde mafia player you could imagine. I can't think of any other way to describe it.

I think the guy's extremely hard to read, and he's been lynched a ton as a civvie because of this. Of course, he's also been lynched as a baddie for sometimes the same reasons as when he's a civ.

fingersplints wrote:
Roxy wrote:
fingersplints wrote:Those two things have totally different meanings to me. Keeping an eye on = fairly neutral read but still wary. Suspecting = something more substantial

I agree here
btw Happy Sunday whore <3
happy sunday! I like your post about bwt. I've been a bit wary of him but idk why. I'm interested in his answers.

You asked me questions? If you did, I don't remember. If you link back to which post it was, I'll be happy to provide answers.

Roxy wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
TinyBubbles wrote:Ooh sneaky, maybe I'll have to recant my opinion about you being a good guy
I'm not milking the noob card I just skim a lot and miss things, it's as lame as that >_>

Anyway, I'm just gonna go ahead and Vote Elohcin. I'm assuming you're not a lying dirty wolf in sheep's clothing misleading me; apart from Bass I don't really know who else to vote for and don't really want to spend more time on it. Elohcin if you're innocent i'm TRULY SORRY and to everyone else, please don't bandwagon. I don't want to be responsible for lynching an innocent. That's probably what got Golden killed.
Hey Sloonei, look at the bit i just bolded up there in that quote.

TinyBubbles, why don't you want to spend more time thinking about your vote? you have quite a long time before the deadline, and who knows who else might influence you? how you might feel yourself? and why trust me so thoroughly as you just drop a vote on the one name i gave you as a suspect?
I could think of 2 reasons TinyBubbles might drop a vote so early on your main suspect:

1) Possibly he's buddying up to you, and wants you to think he's a civ by comparison.

2) If Elo is lynched and flips civ, he could use it as a way to put responsibility on you. I.e. "I only voted Elo because I agreed with JJJ" or something along those lines.
I can think of 2 also:
1) Possibly following those he/she trusts with her/his vote. When I was playing my first few games I often did the same.
2) Is unsure of trusting her/his own instinct and feels better to trust someone else's.

Teeth it seems you are looking for any reason to suspect Bubbles. Can you not think of a new noob reason? Why you would assume to label her vote as a baddie ploy?

It makes me want to eye you more closely if anything.

When I posted that, it was before I realized that TinyBubbles had only played 1 mafia game before this one. My feelings on her have changed since I have additional info that I didn't have before. I no longer think there's a baddie ploy in play.

Le snipped

Sloonei wrote:
sanmateo wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Elohcin -- (#1 No read or unsure, #2 Slight civilian read, #3 no change) -- DROP! Fixated on me all game, then suddenly had opinions on a ton of players with no explanation, including "leaning civilian" on Golden. Then continues to subtly push heat on me until I had an emotional breakdown, upon which she says that both (1) the breakdown doesn't bode well for me yet (2) votes Golden with literally no explanation. Could it get any objectively more scummy than this?
i think you are being manipulative with this, the problem for me isnt that she focused on you but that she had golden as a civilian read and without building a case she flipped and voted for him

at this point i think as scum team of elo + mp07 is more likely than elo + epi, if elo and epi were scum teams their voting would have been very clumsy. in any case i think everyone should focus on getting 1 scum and work their way back instead of trying to catch the whole scum team at once.
Another interesting observation that I'd not really considered. How common is it for scum partners to outright bus each other from Day 1 over here?

Depends on the player. Some will go after teammates left and right and some are completely adamant about throwing teammates under the bus unless absolutely necessary. For Day 1 though, I would consider that to be quite uncommon. I can't remember a time that's happened that springs to mind. But if I'm wrong, someone feel free to correct me.

sanmateo wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
sanmateo wrote:
Elohcin wrote: MP also made stuff up about my vote, told a lie. He said that I posted that I thought Golden was CIV! Then he later quote a post from me where I say Golden is my #2 suspect. He said that I never had an opinion on anyone but him, but then he quoted a post where I mention several names and what I think about them.
you are definitely skipping over my posts, dont really care if you mentioned other people (but did you? where?), but you said golden was civ and then you voted for him without explaining why at all, you basically never mentioned them again other than to say you were voting them

why do i keep saying things when you arent gonna reply to them or even read them

Elohcin wrote:
Anyway, I am leaning civ on Epi, Golden, MM, Splints, and Jimmy. I am not sure about San, Sloo, DDL, MP, and BR.
vote elohcin
ANOTHER early vote? Seriously?!

I might just go back and look at everyone who is voting so ridiculously early. Unless you have a significant RL reason (and I haven't seen any yet), I don't understand the point of not waiting to decide.
i thought a vote might elicit a response

I get that. But when multiple people in a row do that, it does look a bit odd, comprende?

Sloonei wrote:birdwithteeth
I've not been uneasy of birdwithteeth's presence at all this game, which is to say he's basically a gut town read for starters. And my eye was initially attracted to his name at the beginning of the game because is that an It's Always Sunny reference?

Unfortunately, no. I've been using it since 2007, which was before I started watching the show.

One thing that I'd like to see followed up on, though:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote: birdwithteeth11 -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "Seems like normal BWT and I know he is very busy. Not sure what to make of him yet." I would feel slightly better about him due to his post content, but his vote for Golden cancels it out, so I'm still not sure what to make of him.
Ummmm...I didn't vote for Golden?

I voted for Bass.

Also, RIP Golden. When I get a chance, I'm going to go back and read how that lynch went down. Something about it smells fishy to me.
Have you had a chance to look over the lynch? If not, could you point to what about it smells fishy? That'd be groovy.

Unfortunately, I have not. RL commitments have kept me from doing so. I'm hoping to get a chance to do some re-reading tomorrow morning.

Definitely the strongest town reads of the three post histories I've looked at. I dunno what that means for the overall picture of the game, but so far so good.

Alright. So I'm about 6 pages behind (you people post waaaaaayyyyy too much for someone who has my schedule :P), and about 50 minutes to vote. I will skim (don't have time to read it all right now) as quickly as I can and vote accordingly. And I haven't had any time to read back on anyone yet. I honestly don't know when that will happen. Probably not until tomorrow morning. But I shall do my best!

MovingPictures07 wrote:"Accounting for Mafia: Corrupting the Next Generation of Sock-Stuffed Fools"

FTFY

Bass_the_Clever wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:Ok I have a bit of time so if anyone wants to ask me anythingg now is the time or if there are any questions I did answer please point them out.
i have a few:

1.) how do you personally differentiate "keeping an eye on a player" and "suspecting a player"?

2.) who are your top suspects right now and why? you don't have to point to specific posts if time doesn't permit, but please try to offer some explanation.

3.) of the five players who voted for you on Day 1, who do you feel was the most suspicious for doing so?

4.) how might you respond to the points i made against you in this post:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 28#p143328
1. IMO keeping an eye on someone is just something I see that isn't the norm for that person it doesn't make me suspect them it just makes me want to watch that person and see if there is more to what I noticed. Suspecting a person is when I have found something worth voting for.

Fair enough. Just wanted your clarification here.

2. Just so you know I really don't pull quotes. But my suspects so far are-
- Elo because she voted someone she felt good about and gave a lame excuse. She acted like she knew his game and unless she has played with him somewhere else golden just started playing on this site and has died early every game. So how would she know his game?

She might have been clinging to a reason to latch onto a Golden vote. That would be my guess at least.

- TinyBubbles because I was her top suspect and she votes Elo. Why give up on your top suspect if there is a chance that person can get lynched? I understand she trust people who voted Elo but I think piggybacking because of "trust" is something that mafias do to get in good with people who are vocal and seem super civvie.

Fair enough again. I'm hoping to hear more from her on this before I reserve further judgement.

3. Out of the the five people who voted me I think BWT's vote pinged me the most it came out of no where.

Out of nowhere? I think I gave a fairly good justification for it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:is it typical of Roxy to have so few posts compared with the rest of the players?

Meh. I'd give her a little more time. She'll come out of her shell eventually. And gun blazing most likely.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:Ok I have a bit of time so if anyone wants to ask me anythingg now is the time or if there are any questions I did answer please point them out.
i have a few:

1.) how do you personally differentiate "keeping an eye on a player" and "suspecting a player"?

2.) who are your top suspects right now and why? you don't have to point to specific posts if time doesn't permit, but please try to offer some explanation.

3.) of the five players who voted for you on Day 1, who do you feel was the most suspicious for doing so?

4.) how might you respond to the points i made against you in this post:

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 28#p143328

I would like to hear #1 and #2 the most personally. That's what I was typing up as you posted this. :P

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
TinyBubbles wrote:Ooh sneaky, maybe I'll have to recant my opinion about you being a good guy
I'm not milking the noob card I just skim a lot and miss things, it's as lame as that >_>

Anyway, I'm just gonna go ahead and Vote Elohcin. I'm assuming you're not a lying dirty wolf in sheep's clothing misleading me; apart from Bass I don't really know who else to vote for and don't really want to spend more time on it. Elohcin if you're innocent i'm TRULY SORRY and to everyone else, please don't bandwagon. I don't want to be responsible for lynching an innocent. That's probably what got Golden killed.
Hey Sloonei, look at the bit i just bolded up there in that quote.

TinyBubbles, why don't you want to spend more time thinking about your vote? you have quite a long time before the deadline, and who knows who else might influence you? how you might feel yourself? and why trust me so thoroughly as you just drop a vote on the one name i gave you as a suspect?
I could think of 2 reasons TinyBubbles might drop a vote so early on your main suspect:

1) Possibly he's buddying up to you, and wants you to think he's a civ by comparison.

2) If Elo is lynched and flips civ, he could use it as a way to put responsibility on you. I.e. "I only voted Elo because I agreed with JJJ" or something along those lines.
so you don't think there's a civilian mindset to be found in TinyBubbles's vote? i might suggest:

3) in her timid newness, she was willing to put all her eggs in the basket of the player with the 2nd most posts in the thread and absolve herself of the workload

That is a possibility too. I tend to associate such an act with more of my #2.

How many games has TinyBubbles played so far? I know it's been stated she's fairly new but idk how new she is.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:One new thing that troubles me about Bass is that despite being Day 1's #2 vote recipient and near-lynchee, his only visit on Day 2 so far has not been very useful for reading him.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:
Dragon D. Luffy wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote: Can you please show me where I said I was suspected MP? I said I wanted to keep an eye on him because I felt like he was acting different this game. The I gave a short list of what I thought.
Saying you want to keep an eye on someone is pretty much the same thing as suspecting them. You're not directly accusing them of being mafia, but you think there's something worth watching out for.

But you never pursued it, or anything for that matter. You just stayed neutral until you were in danger of getting lynched and you had to put a self defense vote.

Is that how you always play? I'm saying this because I remember someone mentioning you always play like this.
Why would I pursue someone I'm just keeping an eye on. The way I play is with my gut.
i agree with DDL in this exchange. i don't understand the distinction Bass is drawing between "keeping an eye on a player" and "suspecting a player". one might assert that the former is a little less significant, but it's still an expression of suspicion.

otherwise Bass has only talked a little bit about strategy regarding whoever stole the serial killer's role last night. and either alignment can jump into that discussion comfortably.

Exactly. I usually think of "keeping an eye on a player" and "suspecting a player" as the same thing. So Bass' comment struck me as odd in the sense that if you're doing one, you're doing the other. Why differentiate, Bass?

MovingPictures07 wrote:This is definitely abnormal; it's custom for votes to be cast as late as possible, unless there is a significant reason otherwise.

I take full responsibility for my early vote. I believe I've given Elo every possible chance to prove her civilian behavior and I don't see it.

BWT, if you feel my early vote is unwarranted after you've read all my thoughts on the matter, so be it, but I think I've been more than clear.

I understand where you're coming from now. Personally, I still think it's better to wait until you absolutely cannot anymore. But that might be more a reflection of my mafia philosophy vs. yours. While I have voted for people super-early before, I'm just not the biggest fan of doing so.

Sloonei wrote:I remember birdwithteeth's vote standing out because it seemed like he was the only one to go for Bass without giving any reason, but I looked back and realized that's wrong and he stated agreement with my case in this post: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 34#p143634

that looks good and i approve, but for the sake of skepticism I'll say it's possible he could just be scum hopping on an easy and pre-established case, and one that didn't have as much momentum as some of the others and thus wouldn't be as likely to result in an actual lynch that day.

Usually, it takes me a few cycles to really get into a mafia game and start to go with some of my own ideas. So usually for Day 1, I look for something to catch my eye and I often get accused of piggybacking or parroting other peoples' ideas. Although I tend to think that I still add my own thoughts in there.

I still don't feel good about Bass. But I definitely want to hear more from everyone that voted early. Especially as to why they didn't hold off on voting until later with more discussion and information.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Elo's responses don't bode well for her.

I just can't see any reason to wait. This said, I still will discuss suspects.

Votes Elo

............You an early vote too?!

I swear, I might have a mild aneurysm.

sanmateo wrote:
Elohcin wrote: MP also made stuff up about my vote, told a lie. He said that I posted that I thought Golden was CIV! Then he later quote a post from me where I say Golden is my #2 suspect. He said that I never had an opinion on anyone but him, but then he quoted a post where I mention several names and what I think about them.
you are definitely skipping over my posts, dont really care if you mentioned other people (but did you? where?), but you said golden was civ and then you voted for him without explaining why at all, you basically never mentioned them again other than to say you were voting them

why do i keep saying things when you arent gonna reply to them or even read them

Elohcin wrote:
Anyway, I am leaning civ on Epi, Golden, MM, Splints, and Jimmy. I am not sure about San, Sloo, DDL, MP, and BR.
vote elohcin

ANOTHER early vote? Seriously?!

I might just go back and look at everyone who is voting so ridiculously early. Unless you have a significant RL reason (and I haven't seen any yet), I don't understand the point of not waiting to decide.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
TinyBubbles wrote:Ooh sneaky, maybe I'll have to recant my opinion about you being a good guy
I'm not milking the noob card I just skim a lot and miss things, it's as lame as that >_>

Anyway, I'm just gonna go ahead and Vote Elohcin. I'm assuming you're not a lying dirty wolf in sheep's clothing misleading me; apart from Bass I don't really know who else to vote for and don't really want to spend more time on it. Elohcin if you're innocent i'm TRULY SORRY and to everyone else, please don't bandwagon. I don't want to be responsible for lynching an innocent. That's probably what got Golden killed.
Hey Sloonei, look at the bit i just bolded up there in that quote.

TinyBubbles, why don't you want to spend more time thinking about your vote? you have quite a long time before the deadline, and who knows who else might influence you? how you might feel yourself? and why trust me so thoroughly as you just drop a vote on the one name i gave you as a suspect?

I could think of 2 reasons TinyBubbles might drop a vote so early on your main suspect:

1) Possibly he's buddying up to you, and wants you to think he's a civ by comparison.

2) If Elo is lynched and flips civ, he could use it as a way to put responsibility on you. I.e. "I only voted Elo because I agreed with JJJ" or something along those lines.

Turnip Head wrote:I'm going to go ahead and vote TinyBubbles.

And then this too. Orly?

Btw, still catching up. So I'm commenting on stuff as I go along.

Linki

TinyBubbles wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
TinyBubbles wrote:If you're asking would I be willing to vote to confirm Epi was mafia then yes I would.
i was just looking for your response so i could gauge whether you really didn't realize Epi is dead or milked the noob card.

at the moment my top suspect is probably Elohcin. i'll re-evaluate everyone later in the day phase though and see where i stand. i don't like to hold stubbornly onto Day 1 suspicions moving forward in a game.
Ooh sneaky, maybe I'll have to recant my opinion about you being a good guy
I'm not milking the noob card I just skim a lot and miss things, it's as lame as that >_>

Anyway, I'm just gonna go ahead and Vote Elohcin. I'm assuming you're not a lying dirty wolf in sheep's clothing misleading me; apart from Bass I don't really know who else to vote for and don't really want to spend more time on it. Elohcin if you're innocent i'm TRULY SORRY and to everyone else, please don't bandwagon. I don't want to be responsible for lynching an innocent. That's probably what got Golden killed.

I don't understand such an early vote. I mean, you talk about not milking the noob card, but then go ahead and vote 30 hours before the poll deadline? That's 30 hours of other conversations and ideas that could come up that you can't take advantage of to make an informed vote.

MovingPictures07 wrote: birdwithteeth11 -- (#1, #2, #3 no change) -- In #3, I said: "Seems like normal BWT and I know he is very busy. Not sure what to make of him yet." I would feel slightly better about him due to his post content, but his vote for Golden cancels it out, so I'm still not sure what to make of him.

Ummmm...I didn't vote for Golden?

I voted for Bass.

Also, RIP Golden. When I get a chance, I'm going to go back and read how that lynch went down. Something about it smells fishy to me.

EBWOP: I should have clarified in that I think the way Epig is going after MP isn't really indicative (yet) of his potential alignment. He could be civ or bad for all I know, but I don't necessarily think we have enough here on Day 1 for this to be damning enough or not mean anything at all.

Have to leave for work soon and won't be back until tomorrow, well after the lynch deadline. I'm going to go ahead and stick my vote on Bass though, because while it's not much, I think it's the most concrete evidence I've got on anyone right now. The only thing that gives me pause is this:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
sanmateo wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Might be my only chance to vote at work before the deadline.

Voting for Bass_the_Clever
why them over elohcin or epi?
I have less conviction for my suspicion of Eloh than the other two. With Epi i can at least ask myself "is it necessary for mafia Epi to carry on this much to get a townie lynched?" and be given a little pause. Because normally townies do a nice job lynching each other on Day 1 without any veiled mafia guidance.

I also think Bass is more likely to be lynched than the other two considering the progression of the thread lately.

I disagree with JJJ on that one. I could see baddie Epig try and pull such a move. If we were a few cycles later, I'd give this much more consideration. But for now, I still think Bass is a stronger choice.

fingersplints wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:
fingersplints wrote:So I'm a bit torn on MP. I think that the thing that bothers me the most is actually that I feel like a lot of his posts have a "tell me why I'm bad" demanding vibe going on, and I associate that more with a baddie. The timing thing doesn't bother me (although I totes get where Epi is coming from - it could be he just didn't want to answer that question hoping it would be forgotten) and although I think the Gman thing is weird I don't think makes him bad. The same thing could be pointed out about MP - why even bring up the question of if it is faked when it would draw so much attention for it.
Golden and TH are also bothering me by their different play but I'm not sure it makes either bad necessarily.

BR is still my biggest suspect for defending MP and then saying she wasn't defending him. I will probably be voting there.
Hmmmmm....

Cop out much with MP?
How is that a cop out? There are plenty of other players I am not decided on, but they aren't being talked about. MP was, so I commented that what was the current suspicions being raised about him aren't what I find the most suspicious from him.

I meant it was a cop out because it seems like you're covering your tracks if you decide not to vote for him, or do and he flips civ.

Much like BR did.

Alright. Here's where I currently stand...

- On the whole MP vs. Epig thing, I'm leaning more towards MP being civvie and Epig being bad. I know Epig tends to really go after a tip-off he sees, and sometimes makes mountains out of molehills, but I don't have any reason to not believe MP on the RL stuff. He tends to multitask a lot it seems when he is mafia-ing, and all the reasons he gave strike me as genuine. Epig going after him for that RL stuff might be enough for a Day 1 vote for me.

- I'm not seeing the case on Golden at all. I know Turnip Head mentioned him contradicting the whole meta vs. non-meta aspects of Golden, which seems to be TH's main reason for voting him (I think?). Feel free to correct me if I'm interpreting you wrong, TH, but that's how it felt to me.

- I agree with sloonei on Bass. The DDL part of it strikes me as the oddest. It was a fairly substantial aspect earlier in the thread, and enough for me to look at DDL as well. So either Bass hasn't read the thread well enough or he's aware of something we aren't and is hiding it. Him asking MM about the "Syndicate regulas" and his blanket statement about MP don't seem that suspicious by themselves. But when thrown together and with the first statement/thought, and given MP really had to prod Bass earlier to get a definitive statement of some kind, I'm looking hard at Bass right now.

I will have to vote in a couple of hours. Unless something changes drastically, I will be voting for either Bass, Epig, or DDL.

fingersplints wrote:So I'm a bit torn on MP. I think that the thing that bothers me the most is actually that I feel like a lot of his posts have a "tell me why I'm bad" demanding vibe going on, and I associate that more with a baddie. The timing thing doesn't bother me (although I totes get where Epi is coming from - it could be he just didn't want to answer that question hoping it would be forgotten) and although I think the Gman thing is weird I don't think makes him bad. The same thing could be pointed out about MP - why even bring up the question of if it is faked when it would draw so much attention for it.
Golden and TH are also bothering me by their different play but I'm not sure it makes either bad necessarily.

BR is still my biggest suspect for defending MP and then saying she wasn't defending him. I will probably be voting there.

Hmmmmm....

Cop out much with MP?

Still catching up from last night, but my opinion of Epig is currently "WTF?!" with him going after MP for RL stuff happening. I believe MP in that he was distracted from some of his academic endeavors last night and was spending more time in this thread, thus leading to some of his quicker responses. Still catching up and then will post more.

Also hoping I eventually get to a response from MM about his drive-by vote for Golden.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
birdwithteeth11 wrote:- I have yet to see anything that really piques my interest. Or is worthy of me fully commenting on. The only thing of note to me so far is Epig calling out Luffy for giving himself outs with some of the opinions/statements he's made so far. And he's coming off to me as trying really hard to blend in. But again, only a Day 1 read.
Who is trying really hard to blend in? Epignosis or Dragon D. Luffy?

Dragon D. Luffy

Alright. I think I'm caught up for now.

- So far, I feel like all the new people who are posting a lot is refreshing, but I feel weighed down by it. In that, given they're new and posting a lot, it's hard for me to wrap my head around anything completely yet. Especially since it's only Day 1 and I'm trying to do this while multitasking.

- I have yet to see anything that really piques my interest. Or is worthy of me fully commenting on. The only thing of note to me so far is Epig calling out Luffy for giving himself outs with some of the opinions/statements he's made so far. And he's coming off to me as trying really hard to blend in. But again, only a Day 1 read.

- To say I've been extremely busy is an understatement. 3 of the last 4 weeks I've worked 6 days, I work 6 days this week, and will be working 6 next week. I have very little time and energy for mafia right now, but the theme of the game interested me enough to make my break much shorter than I thought it would be. When something happens that I think is a bigger deal than what I've seen, I'll jump in a bit more. But for now, I'll at least do enough to keep up and post any current thoughts I have.

Linki: Of course, there's 5 new posts in the time it took for me to type that too. Oh well.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:MovingPictures07, one might assert you've made a concerted effort here to earn Bass's early good graces without having to commit yourself to a truly positive read -- even if minor.

Yeah. That's what I got from MP's comment before this about bass. But again, only one Day 0 interaction. So not sure how concrete this is yet. I'll file it away in the ol' memory bank for later.

Unfortunately, my catch-up is going to be temporarily stalled. Will be back later to finish it.

MovingPictures07 wrote:But sadly I'm not a Dr. yet.

I have a great joke I can make about your last name once you become a doctor.

Hint: It smells funny.

Well, I'm checking in now for the first time and I see that you all are already posting big-time. Especially given that I have 10 pages to catch up on, and that we're not even halfway through Day 1. Thankfully all my errands for today are done, and I have the rest of the day to catch up. Will work on that this afternoon and evening.

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