The Syndicate

MovingPictures07 wrote:I just have to say that this game has been so much freaking fun to host already, folks, so thanks for not only signing up, but for participating and making this a good time.

On that note, the lynch ends in less than 7.5 hours, so you better vote.

Modkill all the non-voters pls.

Some of you probably think I'm joking too.

thellama73 wrote:I voted for Snowman, not for being a non-participant, but based on things he said.

Snowman came into the thread and saw that I voted for him and people were talking about him. He made a jokey post and left.

Epignosis wrote:I refuse to out other players even if my refusal to do so leads to others voting for me.

S~V~S wrote:

Epignosis wrote:S~V~S, I still feel strongly about a vote for FZ. However, these new boo revelations have me atingle. What say you?

I am not voting for boo unless he says something really amazingly bad. While we have some philosophical differences re low posting and whether it's better to get rid of low posters from the perspective of PLAYERS v. ROLES, I am seeing his points more so than I am seeing yours or Llamas regarding Snowman.

thellama73 wrote:How long do you consider to be an adequate "chance to defend oneself" before you would be comfortable voting for someone (not necessarily Snowman)?

thellama73 wrote:

boo wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

boo wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Boo, you said that Snowman hasn't had a chance to defend himself. I disagree. It has been more than 24 hours since the Day has started.

How long do you consider to be an adequate "chance to defend oneself" before you would be comfortable voting for someone (not necessarily Snowman)?

A reasonable person would wait until they have to actually vote or risk missing the vote before deciding the person isn't going to respond.

So your contention is that Snowman "has not had the chance to respond" until the very moment of the poll closing? Surely you can see that this is madness.

If a potential voter is there right before the poll closes? Yes. If you have to vote 5 hours before it closes, then 5 hours is the answer. 24, 24, Etc, etc.

Unless we know for a fact he is here and is just choosing not to respond, he hasn't had the chance to respond. And since he and Zomba have both not posted in quite sometime, and it is friday night, it seems perfectly reasonable to say they just haven't been here today or tonight, which is why neither of them have posted.

I'm not sure what part of this is difficult to understand.

You have stated that there is no point of any duration at which you will consider a player to have had ample chance to respond to a vote. The implication is that any player can avoid your vote by not posting and not visiting the thread.

What is hard to understand is how this relates to your earlier statements about non-participants.

Epignosis wrote:That isn't very nice bwt.

Turnip Head wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:I'm starting to think I won't get my questions answered from Russ or TH though.

Sorry, what was your question for me?

Russtifinko wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote: I'll be honest. I mostly posted my original post for today in that way because I wanted to see what kinds of reactions I would get out of TH and yourself. I think TH's reaction was very telling in particular.

As for you, I am still curious as to why you did not post at all in the game until now. Care to explain why?

Hmm, telling good or telling bad?

And I can't talk about not talking! That defeats the whole point, man!

Welp that's it for me tonight, all. I'm going to finish the Death Note anime, and then to bed.

Russtifinko wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Alright. I'm going to start approaching this game in a different way. And a different playstyle.

TH and Russ: I want a defense from both of you. Whoever gives a worse defense of why they shouldn't be lynched will get my vote.

......

Also, Russ, I don't need a defense from you (yet). But I do want to know why you haven't posted anything in this game until Day 2.

Linki 2: I'm looking at the two of you because:

1) TH - Voting someone with no explanation whatsoever. Sure, he might be forced. But I feel like something more nefarious is going on.

2) [Russ] did a drive-by-vote on Day 0, didn't post then at all, and didn't post at all during Day 1 or Night 1. So I think you have something to hide too.

I think those are two very good reasons to look at voting one of the two of you today.

(Quote edited for size, but using BWT's words where possible to keep the gist.)

So you want my defense but don't need it yet?

Linki: Haha thanks, BR! To me boo's analysis this game seems on-point. Very well thought-out and helpful. What makes you ask?

Turnip Head wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Alright. I'm going to start approaching this game in a different way. And a different playstyle.

TH and Russ: I want a defense from both of you. Whoever gives a worse defense of why they shouldn't be lynched will get my vote.

Let the game begin...

I'm not bad so you shouldn't vote for me. That was easy. Russ's defense can't possibly beat that.

Black Rock wrote:Oh thank goodness, Russ has posted and maybe we can get some closure and move on.

boo wrote:I don't believe you. *voting BWT*

boo wrote:
But, it wasn't without purpose, because I'm pretty sure I'll be voting for BWT today.

He's done in D0 the kind of thing I said I would find suspicious. In his first post he establishes he'll be going with normal or L/Light, saying he's leaning normal (rehashing things other people have said for why it's the better choice).

Next post swings him to L/Light using a quote from DH. It's really just designed to show open-mindedness.

The next one sort of swings back to normal without doing it in full measure. Just questioning DH's ideas in a way other people have already done.

Then he votes L/Light (saying DH talked him into it) in his next post, but imo nothing in the quote he pulled from DH that he says convinced him is new stuff from DH at that point that BWT hadn't previously said he didn't fully support. It wasn't a vote out of nowhere, it was a vote that allowed him to take minimal responsibility in any scenario.

Couple of more D0 posts that are important. There are some D1 posts that are mostly fluff or disagreeing with some small things.

Then we have this post (the bass part being what is relevant):

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Okay. That was a little intense. But I think I have a pretty good idea of what direction(s) I'm leaning towards for this lynch.

Definitely not Epig and DH. I read all that shit twice (thanks for that you fools :P), and I need time for it to absorb into my brain. Needless to say, I don't see anything for either of you, or boo for that matter, that makes me think anything other than "This is just DH/Epig/boo being DH/Epig/boo".

Aces I'm okay on. I was gung-ho to vote for him, until I went back and actually read his reasoning on the Day 0 vote. And then it became pretty clear that Trice took his post entirely out of context by quote-snipping. Given the way that Trice continues to hold onto his IMO fairly weak case, plus taking someone out-of-context, plus making a lot of posts that don't really contribute anything until Aces went and brought Trice up, I could see myself potentially voting for Trice today.

Daisy I feel good about for now. I think her fly-by vote would have been more suspicious if she'd come back in and tried to keep justifying her vote. But since she already had, I can give her a pass.

Bass I do not feel good about. He feels like the type of low-poster who is doing just enough to fly under the radar, but still seem like he's paying attention. I'd feel bad voting for someone that can't be around to defend themselves, but I could be pressed to vote in his direction if I decide to go the route of voting a low-poster.

So I'd say right now, I'm considering a vote for either Trice or bass. I'm sure I might have forgotten some other thoughts with how much I just read, but feel free to ask questions for me if you want my opinion on something else.

Linki: Look forward to hearing your insights, BR!

He doesn't reference what I had said about bass here, but he doesn't add anything to it (really just seems like he picked a low poster out of a hat and decided to say he could vote for them). Keep in mind, in this post he says he knows how he could vote, but does not (and up to this point has not) mention that he is seriously considering Trice.

A few posts dealing with llama/TH stuff, I guess he was trying to set it sorted out in his mind.

Then we get this post:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Snowman wrote:Thank you Zomberella and SVS. I have no idea if either of you are bad or not, but you boiled down your take on all the players in one post, and I appreciate it. I frankly don't have the time to comb through a couple hundred episodes of "Trice Yells at Everyone" every day. I'll offer my insight and contribute what I can, but I don't see the "discussion" coalescing around anyone in particular. All I see is argument ad nauseum around the D0 poll.

I'm happy to see so many involved, but how do you find so much to talk about when literally nothing has happened yet? The most earth-shattering event so far is the realization that Russ hasn't posted anything.

Waiting for a bandwagon to hop onto?

Hmmm...good point.

Alright. I can probably add TH and Snowman to my list, albeit I would still rank them below Trice and bass. So my list currently goes:

1) Trice
2) bass
3) TH/Snowman

Where Trice has gone from being someone BWT has barely talked to/about (there was one Trice post he quoted to say he agreed with, it was about Kira's being the #1 target) to being his primary suspect. I'm going to go ahead and say that's because at the time of this post, Trice has taken the 2 votes he's still currently sitting at and the odds are good he'll take more before the day is out.

Then in his most recent post, you challenge his bass suspicion, he cites my post about bass, and sets himself up to vote Trice if he doesn't vote bass (Trice being his top choice, but who knows how the wind will be blowing when BWT chooses to vote, right?).

So that's where I am.

some linki, just going to get this through and read.

Black Rock wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Snowman wrote:Thank you Zomberella and SVS. I have no idea if either of you are bad or not, but you boiled down your take on all the players in one post, and I appreciate it. I frankly don't have the time to comb through a couple hundred episodes of "Trice Yells at Everyone" every day. I'll offer my insight and contribute what I can, but I don't see the "discussion" coalescing around anyone in particular. All I see is argument ad nauseum around the D0 poll.

I'm happy to see so many involved, but how do you find so much to talk about when literally nothing has happened yet? The most earth-shattering event so far is the realization that Russ hasn't posted anything.

Waiting for a bandwagon to hop onto?

Hmmm...good point.

Alright. I can probably add TH and Snowman to my list, albeit I would still rank them below Trice and bass. So my list currently goes:

1) Trice
2) bass
3) TH/Snowman

How can you find anything suspicious in Bass? I know I'm reading back so I don't have the thread momentum but Bass hasn't posted much and has RL things going on. I saw nothing in his posts.

thellama73 wrote:

Snowman wrote:Thank you Zomberella and SVS. I have no idea if either of you are bad or not, but you boiled down your take on all the players in one post, and I appreciate it. I frankly don't have the time to comb through a couple hundred episodes of "Trice Yells at Everyone" every day. I'll offer my insight and contribute what I can, but I don't see the "discussion" coalescing around anyone in particular. All I see is argument ad nauseum around the D0 poll.

I'm happy to see so many involved, but how do you find so much to talk about when literally nothing has happened yet? The most earth-shattering event so far is the realization that Russ hasn't posted anything.

Waiting for a bandwagon to hop onto?

thellama73 wrote:These are in order of posting.
L/Light is good:

Turnip Head wrote:Rest in peace Sockface! Yay game!

I'm torn between High Poster ( ) and L/Light options. The high poster one would force the baddies (and civvies too!) to be active if they want their votes to count, which should make for a livelier game thread. But the L/Light option seems to indicate it could have some strategic merit as well.

L/Light is bad:

Turnip Head wrote:Good points Epi and Daisy. Y'all have got me leaning for a normie lynch now.

L/Light is good:

Turnip Head wrote:I voted for L/Light influence. The more I think about it, the more I think it's the best way to catch Kira/Light. And it would be fun to do something different

L/Light is bad:

Turnip Head wrote:Epi makes some really good points. What if the wrong person got lynched every day, and each time flips civ? We wouldn't know whether L or Light was responsible. We'd actually have less information than we started with.

I *symbolically change my vote to Normal*

L/Light is good:

Turnip Head wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Rico, where have you landed on this L/Light vs Normal debate?

Hardly keeping my brain cells from not popping, in terms of following said debate. Undecided, otherwise. I haven't heard from others if L's checking wouldn't put him in an advantage or at least create a balance of somd sort.

I'd say we don't know enough about how L's percentages are determined to know if this is true or not. Although I do like to think L must have some way to use this option to his advantage, even if he himself is not at the top of his baddie detecting game.

L/Light is bad:

Turnip Head wrote:In any case , the L/Light option will NOT give the thread more information. It centralizes the information and puts it into the hands of the leaders of two teams. It is balanced, probably, and would definitely be fun, but a normal lynch is the safest and most reliable option, no question.

No question? Please. You've got more waffle than a breakfast buffet.

thellama73 wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Okay. That was a little intense. But I think I have a pretty good idea of what direction(s) I'm leaning towards for this lynch.

Definitely not Epig and DH. I read all that shit twice (thanks for that you fools :P), and I need time for it to absorb into my brain. Needless to say, I don't see anything for either of you, or boo for that matter, that makes me think anything other than "This is just DH/Epig/boo being DH/Epig/boo".

Aces I'm okay on. I was gung-ho to vote for him, until I went back and actually read his reasoning on the Day 0 vote. And then it became pretty clear that Trice took his post entirely out of context by quote-snipping. Given the way that Trice continues to hold onto his IMO fairly weak case, plus taking someone out-of-context, plus making a lot of posts that don't really contribute anything until Aces went and brought Trice up, I could see myself potentially voting for Trice today.

Daisy I feel good about for now. I think her fly-by vote would have been more suspicious if she'd come back in and tried to keep justifying her vote. But since she already had, I can give her a pass.

Bass I do not feel good about. He feels like the type of low-poster who is doing just enough to fly under the radar, but still seem like he's paying attention. I'd feel bad voting for someone that can't be around to defend themselves, but I could be pressed to vote in his direction if I decide to go the route of voting a low-poster.

So I'd say right now, I'm considering a vote for either Trice or bass. I'm sure I might have forgotten some other thoughts with how much I just read, but feel free to ask questions for me if you want my opinion on something else.

Linki: Look forward to hearing your insights, BR!

What about Turnip Head? Maybe you should think about voting for him... maybe.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:We could sit here and speculate all day but either way we still need to kill the kiras. If we do that and don't win yet we can deal with it then

Epignosis wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I made a list of four people that I would vote for on Day 1. Turnip Head is one of those, although not for the same reasoning you raised, llama.

Am I on your list?

No. I like you.

In fact, so that no one accuses me of being opportunistic or jumping onto other people's cases, I'll name the quartet now:

Ricochet, Turnip Head, spacedaisy, and FZ.

Why these four?

I believe Ricochet was being deceptive in his Day 0 questions. I think he was pretending to be clueless. He is not clueless. He is very smart. Even he knew that Simon Railton belong in the Eclectic category but sucked beyond belief! I think Ricochet is bad.

Turnip Head? TH has been boring beyond belief. Also I think he is tied to another player.

spacedaisy voted Day 0 and didn't say why. I think spacedaisy is bad with FZ. FZ. also has been absent. I think these two are unsure of what to say.

Made wrote:having already voted, is there any reason to review the last 2 or 3 pages (of course I'll go back after the Day 1 lynch, but right now)

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I wonder how our votes are weighted for this Day 0 poll. It would be extremely devious of MP to have already applied one of the options to the vote itself.

I didn't want to say this out loud, but I think there's a possibly this is the case. I'd do it if I were in his shoes.

I doubt it-- actually....If i were to do that, It would be the first person to vote decides how this poll would work. That said I very much doubt that is the case.

thellama73 wrote:I wonder how our votes are weighted for this Day 0 poll. It would be extremely devious of MP to have already applied one of the options to the vote itself.

DharmaHelper wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Oh wow. It's Day 0 and we already have discussion ripe. And even an accusation of potential baddieness from Epig directed at Rico! This is going to be so exciting!

I'm in between the L/Light and Normal options. Currently leaning towards Normal because I think it would give us more information than the L/Light option would. Unless we could figure out a way to determine which people L and Light are picking. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

I'll think over my decision for now.

If we went with the L/Light option, We would have more to work with in regards to voting patterns and lynches. Closer votes would yield more information, as Made said. If someone ends up lynched who shouldn't be, that would provide us insight. Likewise, if the lynch proceeds as expected, there is something to be said about that.

I get that we might have more to work with with voting patterns and lynches. But wouldn't it technically take longer to gather said info since only L and Light are the two who know which votes do and don't count? Or am I thinking about this the wrong way?

Initially, only L and Light know who are on their individual lists. But after the lynches, I'm certain it could be deduced who was on one list, no lists, or both lists. Maybe not specifically which players, but it would be possible to say "someone in this group" or something. For example, if Someone in second place is lynched, its likely that that person had boosted voters, or the first place guy had negated voters, or both. It's a bit of homework, but its not impossible.

One more thing before I go: Vanilla lynching affords us one significant disadvantage that i can see, and that is that in the event of lynch fuckery, we will have basically no idea how or why the lynch went tits up. The L/Light mechanic gives us a known quanitity, from which deductions can be made and conclusions drawn.

DharmaHelper wrote:

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Oh wow. It's Day 0 and we already have discussion ripe. And even an accusation of potential baddieness from Epig directed at Rico! This is going to be so exciting!

I'm in between the L/Light and Normal options. Currently leaning towards Normal because I think it would give us more information than the L/Light option would. Unless we could figure out a way to determine which people L and Light are picking. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

I'll think over my decision for now.

If we went with the L/Light option, We would have more to work with in regards to voting patterns and lynches. Closer votes would yield more information, as Made said. If someone ends up lynched who shouldn't be, that would provide us insight. Likewise, if the lynch proceeds as expected, there is something to be said about that.

DharmaHelper wrote:While I'm here I also want to stress that a "vanilla" lynch affords Light's team and the mafia an advantage not just in their vote manipulations and teamvoting and so on, but in that L is vulnerable to that +5 deathshot from Ide. At least with L buffing/nerfing votes, he can afford himself some protection against Ide. Does that make sense? Again, it is a very tough nut to crack, a question of meta almost. Does L try and keep Ide off his list? Does Light try and put Ide *ON* the list, at the risk of weakening his list by buffing a civ? It's all very interesting to me.