The Syndicate

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:01 pm 4) INH kills DH

Oh word @insertnamehere ?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:29 pm Now that this marathon is over, I’m gonna plug Quin’s Ass Class. Six spots left, go fill ‘em up.

Golden wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:30 pm Add The Genius to that, because it's going to be seriously awesome but not mafia (and only four spots left).

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:01 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:59 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:57 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:52 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:50 pm And do you have a problem with my defense of Scotty?

Both your defense and my attack of Scotty rely on mucho assumptions. I think that those assumptions aside, his in-thread content points more to him being bad. I'd hope that people would read his stuff and my analysis of his stuff and come to the same conclusion.

You don't think he's Strex. You think he killed himself when nutella and Long Con could have killed me or S~V~S (they did end up killing her) or any number of wonderful people on Pikachu.

Your perspective is that despite all that, Long Con and nutella said, "Sure Scotty, go ahead and kill yourself Night 2, burn your first life, show yourself to be an originally evil insanifier from BSG which, at this stage of the game, won't look good for you, and then carry on as you were."

Come on man. That team is a mess. It isn't that big of a mess.

I get the feeling that I'm not going to change your mind, and you aren't going to change my mind, despite both of us understanding each other's viewpoints.

Is the red in fact your perspective?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:58 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:51 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:49 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:48 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:47 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:44 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:41 pm
My perspective is irrelevant, got it.

Continuing to vote for INH.

When you only judge things from a highly subjective standpoint, and don't even try to be objective, sure.

Sorry for not aligning with your playstyle. You have a pattern of scumreading those that don't (me, Kyle, Boom) and townreading those that do (Scotty).

How are you being objective?

I'm not judging people based on their in-thread treatment of me, which is my main problem with Sloonei's defense of Scotty.

And how are you judging people? Objectively?

I'm not judging people based on how they treat me. I think that's more objective than what Sloonei has said. I never claimed to be utterly objective, I just said that Sloonei's statement was so subjective that it held no worth for me.

semantic nonsense arguments are fun

I'm judging Scotty based on how he has treated me as a player in this game, yeah.

Do you disagree with the notion that mafia prefer to eliminate town power role quickly?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:57 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:52 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:50 pm And do you have a problem with my defense of Scotty?

Both your defense and my attack of Scotty rely on mucho assumptions. I think that those assumptions aside, his in-thread content points more to him being bad. I'd hope that people would read his stuff and my analysis of his stuff and come to the same conclusion.

You don't think he's Strex. You think he killed himself when nutella and Long Con could have killed me or S~V~S (they did end up killing her) or any number of wonderful people on Pikachu.

Your perspective is that despite all that, Long Con and nutella said, "Sure Scotty, go ahead and kill yourself Night 2, burn your first life, show yourself to be an originally evil insanifier from BSG which, at this stage of the game, won't look good for you, and then carry on as you were."

Come on man. That team is a mess. It isn't that big of a mess.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:53 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:51 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:49 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:48 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:47 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:44 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:41 pm
My perspective is irrelevant, got it.

Continuing to vote for INH.

When you only judge things from a highly subjective standpoint, and don't even try to be objective, sure.

Sorry for not aligning with your playstyle. You have a pattern of scumreading those that don't (me, Kyle, Boom) and townreading those that do (Scotty).

How are you being objective?

I'm not judging people based on their in-thread treatment of me, which is my main problem with Sloonei's defense of Scotty.

And how are you judging people? Objectively?

I'm not judging people based on how they treat me. I think that's more objective than what Sloonei has said. I never claimed to be utterly objective, I just said that Sloonei's statement was so subjective that it held no worth for me.

semantic nonsense arguments are fun

So you think Sloonei is being bamboozled by a bad Scotty. Am I correct?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:51 pm And since I'm bombarding you with questions, what is your take on Kylemii?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:50 pm And do you have a problem with my defense of Scotty?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:49 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:48 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:47 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:44 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:41 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:38 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:30 pm

Why?

Too many "could"'s and "I think"'s and assumptions that make asses out of you and I.

Your subjective assumptions of how civilians and baddies would treat you in certain situations seems irrelevant from my perspective.

My perspective is irrelevant, got it.

Continuing to vote for INH.

When you only judge things from a highly subjective standpoint, and don't even try to be objective, sure.

Sorry for not aligning with your playstyle. You have a pattern of scumreading those that don't (me, Kyle, Boom) and townreading those that do (Scotty).

How are you being objective?

I'm not judging people based on their in-thread treatment of me, which is my main problem with Sloonei's defense of Scotty.

And how are you judging people? Objectively?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:47 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:44 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:41 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:38 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:30 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:24 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:16 pm Another point about Scotty that is relevant to my read of him, but which I could not/did not want to talk about before today is that he seemed to perceive that I could hold a powerful role going back a long way (I think I first noticed it when we were still in the tribal phase). He never made a big deal of this, but he made subtle mentions of it which (I think) I picked up on and which told me he thought my role could be having a significant effect on my play/the game in general. This eventually manifested itself in his hesitence toward lynching me a few days ago.

If Scotty is bad, he silently makes a note of my potential power role and then disposes of me as quickly as possible.

this is absolutely worthless to me

Why?

Too many "could"'s and "I think"'s and assumptions that make asses out of you and I.

Your subjective assumptions of how civilians and baddies would treat you in certain situations seems irrelevant from my perspective.

My perspective is irrelevant, got it.

Continuing to vote for INH.

When you only judge things from a highly subjective standpoint, and don't even try to be objective, sure.

Sorry for not aligning with your playstyle. You have a pattern of scumreading those that don't (me, Kyle, Boom) and townreading those that do (Scotty).

How are you being objective?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:45 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:42 pm Epi, your spirited defense of Scotty, insisting that he couldn't have gained any credibility from killing himself is probably exactly what he was hoping for when he killed himself.

Killing yourself is pouring a biiiig glass of WIFOM on top of anyone's suspicions of you being from a certain team. TBH, that was my first thought when I saw that this game would have both extra lives and baddie teams: some crazy fucker's gonna be scum and get himself nightkilled in order to appear civ.

This be the Game of Champions, the game of massive gambits and balls-to-the-wall play. This would be a balls to the wall move, one that I believe Scotty is crazy enough to try.

SUBJECTIVE ASSUMPTION

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:41 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:38 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:30 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:24 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:16 pm Another point about Scotty that is relevant to my read of him, but which I could not/did not want to talk about before today is that he seemed to perceive that I could hold a powerful role going back a long way (I think I first noticed it when we were still in the tribal phase). He never made a big deal of this, but he made subtle mentions of it which (I think) I picked up on and which told me he thought my role could be having a significant effect on my play/the game in general. This eventually manifested itself in his hesitence toward lynching me a few days ago.

If Scotty is bad, he silently makes a note of my potential power role and then disposes of me as quickly as possible.

this is absolutely worthless to me

Why?

Too many "could"'s and "I think"'s and assumptions that make asses out of you and I.

Your subjective assumptions of how civilians and baddies would treat you in certain situations seems irrelevant from my perspective.

My perspective is irrelevant, got it.

Continuing to vote for INH.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:30 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:24 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:16 pm Another point about Scotty that is relevant to my read of him, but which I could not/did not want to talk about before today is that he seemed to perceive that I could hold a powerful role going back a long way (I think I first noticed it when we were still in the tribal phase). He never made a big deal of this, but he made subtle mentions of it which (I think) I picked up on and which told me he thought my role could be having a significant effect on my play/the game in general. This eventually manifested itself in his hesitence toward lynching me a few days ago.

If Scotty is bad, he silently makes a note of my potential power role and then disposes of me as quickly as possible.

this is absolutely worthless to me

Why?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:05 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:01 pm The tinfoil about teams killing their own members for town credibility is the strongest argument I can make against Scotty that doesn't revolve around POE. It's not very strong.

But...you don't get any credibility for being killed by the mafia, because you could be a civilian and come back mafia (in theory- I don't think that's happening).

What I want to know is this:

Who the fuck killed Scotty?

Because it wasn't Long Con.

And it wasn't nutella.

Scotty was killed by an Even.

Who was that Even?

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:16 pm Another point about Scotty that is relevant to my read of him, but which I could not/did not want to talk about before today is that he seemed to perceive that I could hold a powerful role going back a long way (I think I first noticed it when we were still in the tribal phase). He never made a big deal of this, but he made subtle mentions of it which (I think) I picked up on and which told me he thought my role could be having a significant effect on my play/the game in general. This eventually manifested itself in his hesitence toward lynching me a few days ago.

If Scotty is bad, he silently makes a note of my potential power role and then disposes of me as quickly as possible.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:28 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:02 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:32 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:25 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:16 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:04 pm idk who to
vote for. lol. wat. help.
idk cbob? boomslang?

Why not kyle?

Kyle didn't care who was lynched day five; indeed Kyle didn't care about the lynch enough to even vote. Had he voted for sig, LC might not have been lynched. I find him an unlikely Even.

And Scotty mocking people isn't nice. I am not conducting.

I am not as certain that there was an effort to save Long Con in Cerberus as you are. I did not want to say this when I was being lynched because I figured it would just he turned against me, but the frustration about our lack of lynches had been mounting. The push by Scotty, myself, and others to get somebody lynched could very well havd just been a product of collective frustration.

Kyle was largely disengaged and I wouldn't expect him to put up a big fight to save his teammate. He just wasn't active enough at the time.

Having said all that, I do not remember exactly how things went down that day.

Even when it was happening, the whole pushing for a lynch, no-matter-what, convincing-cases-be-damned thing felt like a thin excuse for a witch hunt that I wasn't buying into. Out of the three people who were reeeeeally pushing lynches, one's a dead civilian, one's you, who I'm ambivalent about, and the other is Scotty. I feel like someone was using that pro-lynch fervor for nefarious purposes, and Scotty makes the most damn sense.

On Day 5, the dude was adamently against me for pretty flimsy reasons. Then I show up, defend myself and offer a case against sig, who wasn't around at all, and he jumps on it, changing the direction of the lynchwagon straight down the path of least resistance exactly when the Evens needed Cerberus to outvote Pikachu.

Since then, he's engaged in a pattern of disingenuous flippity floppity and illogical, dirty-feeling narrative pushing that I feel like I've written extensively about. At this point, I feel like people have kinda retreated into their own ideological bubbles in terms of lynch candidates, so any more case-making would just be shouting into the void.

I think Scotty's bad, I've thought that for a large chunk of the game at this point, and shitty voting record be damned, I might just end up voting him until one of us dies.

[VOTE: Scotty] aubergine

Hoo boy.



Elf is hella overrated. Kinda like you.

Glad I read that shit this morning and yesterday.

First, this was your reaction to sig not getting lynched (even though sig was good and LC was bad):

That was Sig 1.0. So, we don't know 100% if he was bad or good. Assumption.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:14 pm okay what the fuck

did eight people vote for LC on the other tribe?

You look pretty adamant here that one of your tribe's lynches go through. A civilian sig survived while a mafia Long Con died, and your reaction was to be pissed that your tribe didn't score the lynch?

I was confused and more than a little bit baffled that seven people wasn't a high enough number to lynch someone, especially when Pikachu seemingly had no idea they had to outvote us to push a lynch through. It didn't makes sense to me unless LC did some serious shit, hence the question. Once again, this is confusion instead of "pissed." Distortion.

Second, your biggest complaints against Scotty were Day 1 when he and Sloonei were having a go at you to move shit along I guess.

Be mindful that Scotty was Scotty 1, who had yet to be killed by the Evens. He was innocent then.

And? If your point is that I didn't suspect him now, which makes my later continued suspicion hypocritical, then why do you specifically identify Scotty 1.0 as "innocent?" Wouldn't that make me look better for not suspecting the iteration of Scotty you think is 100% good?

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:16 pm In terms of voting, I wouldn't be against going the Scotty route and voting for JoH. This is the Game of friggin' Champions. Champions, at the very least, show up.

You agreed with Scotty to vote for a (likely) civilian JackofHearts2005.

Yep. I didn't have any major suspicions on Day 1, sue me, so I went against JoH's inactivity on Day 1 of the Game of friggin' Champions. Even AWOL Wilgy was around on Day 1. D'you have a problem with that, champ?

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:05 pm People I'm looking at today, in no particular order:

Sig - Same reasons as yesterday. May vote for him.
Daisy - Not really done much other than go after Boomslang for kinda flimsy reasons and randomly vote for Wilgy. May vote for her.
Kyle - I suck at reading him, so I'm kinda fighting my instincts on this one, but I really didn't like his overreaction to the perceived overreaction of Boomslang's 70% comment. Not gonna vote for him today due to insanification.
Scotty - The Lorab thing is weak sauce. I myself sometimes struggle with having solid reads, and can be hella reticent to concretely voice my opinions, so Lorab is reading as a town-read to me. Scotty sure is posting a bunch, but I'm not really sure what all he's saying. Plus, he hasn't yet posted a Survivor Mafia 2 in The Drawing Board forum. We should lynch him solely for that. May vote for him.
Wilgy - Good ol' unreadable clusterfuck-y wiggly Wilgy. I appreciate his defense of me against Sloonei's nonsense, but he's still one big question mark to me, way more than perhaps any other player. Probably won't vote for him.
Nijuu - Like his Sig vote, but still a bit of a blank read. I know that this is WIFOM soup, but considering that it appears that mafia remain mafia after losing a life, I can't help but wonder if they'd NK one of their own early on just to muddy up the waters. It's a dumb reason to suspect Nijuu, as I'm well aware, but it's why I can't really loosen up and townread him. Probably won't vote for him.

You didn't agree with Scotty about Lorab though.

I like it when people completely ignore my actual, usually valid reasoning for not finding someone suspicious who was later revealed to be a scummeister, instead just thumbing their nose at me, being smug, and acting like they've never been wrong about a person in mafia. If you think that my reasoning for not finding Lorab suspicious at this point is itself suspicious, please explain why.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:50 pm

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:46 am I have been doing most of my reading at work, which is why when I post it has more thoughts. I can't post as easily at work. So I know that when I was catching up once Wilgy started talking something he said jumped out at me and immediately made me think, "teammates." But I can't recall off the top of my head. I will need to find it again. I just don't have time tonight.

On another note, I think I was a lot more loud about the fact I didn't like Boomslang jumping on the dumb 70% thing. I get why it doesn't make sense as a statement, but I think Boomslang is a really smart dude. He should have been able to realize, that this statement is not one that logically would say "Baddie." So the fact that he based his vote on that dumb comment is what bothers me. in fact that is what bothers me about Boomslang overall. I have a high amount of respect for his intellect in general. And I struggle to find the logic in his suspicions. This could entirely just be a difference of how we think, that is my only hindrance in this. But I have no qualms about the fact I suspected Boom based on that. I think it's weird no one really talked much about the fact I took this strong stance about it. And even weirder that I don't even remember Kyle having made a big deal of it.

I don't have the immediate feeling of "TOWN" from Kyle that I have in the past, but I haven't had any kind of feel.

At one point in my read through, I had the thought that I believed either Boomslang, Blooper or both were bad but I didn't believe they were both good. I can't recall why now though. Perhaps something to do with how they interacted. I'll have to revisit to figure it out again.

Uh something else, I can't recall. Someone that had listed suspicion of me seemed fake as shit, but now I don't remember which one. Must research to recall.

That's all I can think of tonight. My energy went to researching Wilgy to decide if I was on crack or not regarding my perception of his meta. I decided that I don't think I am. However I will add this caveat. The older games lack this pattern. But I feel like it is present in all the games I checked from 2017 and so far in 2018. I didn't look through all 2016, I noticed the lack of it back in the 2015 games, but we're talking three years ago. I still feel fairly strongly that we are seeing bad Wilgy here. So much so I am willing to toss my vote there right now.

VOTE DrWilgy You asked for an aubergine fiiiiight, and I love you toooo. But I still think you are bad. But I love you, Baddie Badderson.

Coaching weak suspicions in "you're usually better" nonsensical sentiment. Boomslang is usually smarter (which Daisy and Sloonei seem to define as agreeing with their suspicions instead of having their own opinions) and DrWilgy is, I guess, more gimmick-y? The only thing from Wilgy's game-content that I've found disagreeable is his Boomslang vote today. Daisy's highly-subjective entirely-meta case against him just seems like formless finger pointing.

I'd vote for Daisy or Sig today over anyone else. I'm gonna try and ISO Scotty at some point and give my thoughts on him and his glut of content.

You defended Wilgy and voiced more suspicion of Daisy or sig than Scotty.

Yeah, because it was Day 4. My opinions changed over the course of the game, dude.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:30 pm @Scotty if I moved my vote to sig, would you follow me?

You asked Scotty if he'd help you lynch sig.

It's like, what- you need someone whom you suspect's support for you to vote sig on the very Day Long Con was being lynched in the other thread?

I was leading the lynch at this point for fairly barmey reasons. Scotty was one of the people voting for me. I thought that if I convinced him to vote sig, that I'd have a better chance of not getting lynched, and someone who I thought was bad would be lynched in my place.

I was both the person who was gonna get lynched on Day 5 if I didn't say anything and the person who came up with the sig case in the first place. Scotty was the one who immediately backtracked from his suspicion of me, and launched onto Sig when I tried to be a nuisance.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:27 pm Screw it, leap of faith.

sig aubergine

Here you hope sig gets lynched.

He doesn't.

The leap of faith thing was because I was worried Scotty wouldn't follow me. My vote was on some other person for self-preservation purposes, and by switching to Sig, I could be screwing myself over if Scotty didn't follow me over to sig.

You look upset.

Confused. But if you want to ignore context and argue over semantical nonsense, be my guest. I don't fit your narrative, bub.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:14 pm okay what the fuck

did eight people vote for LC on the other tribe?

was this double-quote for emphasis or to pad things out?

So people who want to push a lynch through no matter are disingenuous before Day 5, but you're not on Day 5, the only time in Cerebus you tried really hard to push through a lynch?

Do I have that right?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:52 pm If you believe Scotty is Strex, why?

If you believe Scotty is an Even, then who killed him Night 2?

Go.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:15 am He was killed on Night 2, correct? This is pure, uncut, WIFOM, but there's been a kinda low-level suspicion brewing ever since the start of the game, or at least I remember someone mentioning it in Cerberus, that scum teams would be willing to nightkill one of their own early on, putting them on their second life, but giving them cover throughout the rest of the game. That's assuming alignments carry over after death, of course, but from my limited perspective, that appears to be the case.

I'm not ruling him out.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:12 pm A big issue I have with your Scotty case, @insertnamehere is that I don't regard "flip flopping" as a necessarily suspicious action. A huge part of solving any game is working through a progression of ideas and reads. A civilian's mind should change a ton from start to finish. If you want to argue that Scotty's progression doesn't represent an honest or consistent thought process, I'll listen. But if the accusation is simply that he's "flip flopping" then I can't get behind. I've flip-flopped too many times myself to get behind that.

By contrast, you have been focused on Scotty for the long haul, and I am beginning to question the progression of your thought process. There doesn't seem to be any.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:32 pm

S~V~S wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:25 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:16 pm

Dom wrote: ↑Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:04 pm idk who to
vote for. lol. wat. help.
idk cbob? boomslang?

Why not kyle?

Kyle didn't care who was lynched day five; indeed Kyle didn't care about the lynch enough to even vote. Had he voted for sig, LC might not have been lynched. I find him an unlikely Even.

And Scotty mocking people isn't nice. I am not conducting.

I am not as certain that there was an effort to save Long Con in Cerberus as you are. I did not want to say this when I was being lynched because I figured it would just he turned against me, but the frustration about our lack of lynches had been mounting. The push by Scotty, myself, and others to get somebody lynched could very well havd just been a product of collective frustration.

Kyle was largely disengaged and I wouldn't expect him to put up a big fight to save his teammate. He just wasn't active enough at the time.

Having said all that, I do not remember exactly how things went down that day.

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:56 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:42 pm

Scotty and sprityo were off in one corner, talking amongst themselves.

"I think we should lynch xbox" said Scotty"

"Hmm..." said sprityo "I'm reconsidering my stance burn."

"I still farted it up" said scotty.

"Ki votes count" said sprityo. "Meeit".

In the meantime, Spacedaisy and SVS were talking in another corner.

"We should put our brain hemispheres together" said Spacedaisy "sometimes, I feel as though one of us has two left hemispheres, and the other one has two right hemispheres."

"I have no idea what you're talking about" said SVS "But when you mentioned hemispheres, it was the missing link. I have now solved Hilbert's eleventh problem."

"We make a great team!" said Spacedaisy "If only I could make such a great team with Quin!"

*whoosh*

Spacedaisy suddenly entered a flashback. Or possibly a flashforward. Hard to be sure.

"We have to go back" screamed Jack Shepherd

Quin and Spacedaisy compared their notes.

"So" said Quin "What I'm seeing is that somehow we collectively suspect everyone in the game, but don't actually both suspect anyone. Can I get a Venn diagram for this? How is this possible?"

It also turned out that Quin used to deliver fish and chips to Spacedaisy when she was a young girl, even though Quin was pre-embryonic at the time. Spacedaisy had the odd feeling that she was in Lost Season 3, as presented by David Lynch.

*whoosh*



Day 13 has ended. Lorab has been lynched. She was:

You are 99: A Cow (A Game About Chinese Food) - You have the ability to make a trip to get chinese food intolerably boring, and really you just look like a cow, because you are, in fact, a cow. If targeted by a role that can learn affiliation, you will appear to be town. You are MAFIA and a member of STREXCORP.

It is now night 13. It will last for 24 hours, meaning you have 22 hours to get your PMs in

So scottys good

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:39 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:23 pm so who's bad?

But via the Even route,
If I had to rank everyone on Pikachu 2.0, based on the assumption that kills are targets and players have to only target on their tribe, I’d currently rank as such, from most likely to least likely
-Kyle
-SD
-you

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:14 pm To be clear, you think I withheld a kill on Night 10 so that I could implicate wilgy, even though I knew it would be revealed that he was not responsible for the missed kill immediately after, and was more than likely going to be lynched next anyway?

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:17 pm Sure.

Or as I said, other things could have happened and the kill wasn't purposely withheld. Could have been a block or a save or something. But when it didn't go through, in any case, it was an easy next step to continue pushing for wilgy.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:15 pm Why is it that when I do something you don't like I'm "pushing narratives" but when I do something that might be good I'm "squeaking"?

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:38 am People I’m making my mind up on:

I BELIEVE ARE CIV—
Nijuu
Epi
Dom
SpaceDaisy
Quin
SVS

I BELIEVE COULD GO EITHER WAY, BUT LEANING CIV-
Boomslang

IDK-
cbob
DDL
sprityo

I BELIEVE COULD GO EITHER WAY, BUT LEANING BAD-
Sloonei
Kyle

I BELIEVE TO BE BAD-
INH
LoRab


If I could move my IDK’s out of that category, then my POE will be so much clearer.

I’m comfortable with where we at, fam. Lookin good in either case, even if y’all (SD, Quin, SVS) mislynch me.

Scotty wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:36 pm Yep, I absolutely wasn’t sure of you a few days ago. I had a strong civ read, then Wilgy died, and I was left second guessing. But your conviction that I am bad, though egregiously wrong, makes me feel better about you again.

Are you telling me that reads don’t change for you from time to time? My reads are not deadset, otherwise I’d be a statue (a damn sexy gargoyle, if you ask me): so yeah, I’ve oscillated on you, and view you as civ right now.

I get it, I’m not going to sway you from voting me. But if not me, who would you vote?

Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:19 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:15 pm Why is it that when I do something you don't like I'm "pushing narratives" but when I do something that might be good I'm "squeaking"?

I'm looking at you under a lens, so pushing narratives is just another way of how it fits my thinking. And I'm not comparing you doing "something good". I'm saying you were hardly screaming for people to start looking at you as a culprit. I think I did a pretty good job of pointing out that you were doing it out of necessity because everyone else was looking that way.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:20 am I know exactly how you feel, SVS. I’m feeling more and more detached as the game drags on and no one really validates my cases. And I’ve made a multitude of cases- LoRab, INH, Wilgy, Sloonei, etc that I’m beginning to think I’m just wrong about all of them. Some look at them as ingenuine and/or mudslinging, but I think that’s because they’re just not seeing things from my point of view- I feel like I’m right, and I want to be right, so it makes it that much harder.

You’re wrong about me, but I feel like we at least share this feeling.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:19 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:55 pm I've managed to be both traveling and sick for the past couple days, so I'm gonna start breaking some stuff down.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:28 pm insertnamehere - He adamantly tried to save DrWilgy even though there was no good reason for a civilian to do that. No civilian should want to go into an endgame scenario with an absent DrWilgy and lose because he was lynched then rather than earlier when it made the most sense, and it is unlikely either mafia was going to do the civilians the favor of removing him. His voting record is, from what I can observe, abysmal. None of INH's posts with regard to Marmot or Wilgy (or vice-versa) strike me as particularly compatible or incompatible.

I get the feeling that I need to re-post my "defense" of Wilgy again for people to actually understand what I was saying with it. Instead, people just seem to have read the first word of each paragraph. I was worried that the thread was forgoing actual scumhunting in favor of easy, often-absentee targets. I viewed the Wilgy train as an example of this. I fully admitted that there was a 95% chance that Wilgy was going to be lynched that day, and I didn't even really offer an alternative. I discussed multiple flaws in people's reasoning for voting him, but I also stated that those flaws were mostly trumped by the fact that he simply wasn't showing up. It was as much of a plea for people to present more detailed, sturdy cases as it was a half-hearted "defense" of Wilgy.

In light of his flip, it's certainly very easy to use it to paint me negatively. But that would require ignoring context.

Your name is red because I have no reason to believe you are not on that team. Do you think there's a reason I should eliminate you from that list?

Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:28 pm insertnamehere - He adamantly tried to save DrWilgy even though there was no good reason for a civilian to do that. No civilian should want to go into an endgame scenario with an absent DrWilgy and lose because he was lynched then rather than earlier when it made the most sense, and it is unlikely either mafia was going to do the civilians the favor of removing him. His voting record is, from what I can observe, abysmal. None of INH's posts with regard to Marmot or Wilgy (or vice-versa) strike me as particularly compatible or incompatible.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:53 am Colinialbob is that dude I can never read. But his first role looked like shit an so didd his play with that role.

Sig is that guy I usually suspect tho.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:48 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 12:31 am meh. I'm sure Epi and I could end up voting the same way regardless of being compelled to or not. He's been all about colonialbob. I've paid little attention to colonialbob.

I can help.

[VOTE: colonialbob] aubergine

Boomslang wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:21 am

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:27 pm

Boomslang wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:11 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:30 pm

Boomslang wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:26 pm I think colonialbob and sig are the strongest candidates.

why these two? and if I asked you to pick the stronger candidate, which would you choose?

Argh, misread the polls; I'd thought both colonialbob and sig were on the "first voted Speedchuck and then Wilgy" train. Cbob did do a Speedchuck to worthless DH vote, however. Not sure if the context of the DH kill adds any more information about that vote, given that we still have two mafia teams still out.

I'd say sig is the stronger candidate. His "sticking to his guns" comment gaslights people who are questioning him over Sloonei suspicion; it strikes me as someone who's caught in a slip doubling down. Also, "Plus mafia hasn't targeted him which i really dislike" is pouring a nice tall glass of WIFOM.

Would you be willing to start a sig wagon?

Well, it looks like you started it for me. Votes sig aubergine.

S~V~S wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:16 am Thank you! Like Daisy, one thing I was iffy about was your rather strong defense of Wilgy. I doubt that Golden would put a Seemer style role on both teams ([aside]LCs role was why I was suspicious of both DH and Chuck, even though they fairly aggressively either defended LC (Chuck), tried to deflect to Dom (both) or tried to discredit me (DH) for pounding down "Do you think the hosts told LC that blah blah" everytime someone started to waver on voting for LC. Although in the last case, DH sounded pretty genuine to me, he really did think I was potentially railroading LC, so that was why I eventually turned to Chuck, rather than him [/aside]). So I think a super strong defense of a bad teammate who wants to be replaced, especially with Marmot bussing him right out the door, that does give me pause. Before DH was killed x2 and I started reading the beginning of the merged thread (whenever I tried to go in there it was all Lords of the Flies in there, with "kill the baddies" pitchfork waving manliness dripping off of every surface, lol, I had to get out of there for a while, so I just came back to vote and avoided reading much of anything) my thought was that you and he were avoiding EACH OTHER. But no way of really knowing that. My opinion on DH is fairly unreliable, he scares me, and he makes me nervous, and he and I seem to be super good at pushing each others buttons, a rather dubious superpower.

As for the Negan thing, I appreciate the sensitivity. DH said something similar. But it was menacing in Survivor for a different reason. It possibly would have been funny here, but I do appreciate the consideration from you both. It wasn't specifically that, it was that after your frustration, after being in two different thread with two very different personalities, I would have expected you and DH to interact more, to toss ideas off each other and that did not happen. Even if you don't play alot of games together I view you as friends. But that is subjective. And that also might be too obvious. But there most def was less interaction than I expected.

INH, Other than sig (and you could be right there) what are your thoughts on everyone else? I am going to pull my vote off of you for now, and move it to Scotty. Partially for your defenses, but also becasue of Quins opinions.

~~~
I still think the third strex is one of the people from Cerberus who stayed behind at the first button. DH could have easily been killed one or even two times had the killer been in his thread prior. But he wasn't until after the merge, and it was immediately after the merge. I think one of these people killed DH:

Boom
INH
LoRab
Niju
Scotty
sig
Sloonei
Spacedaisy

Boom, I felt better about him before the merge, INH ^^. LoRab, you're busy, you were traveling, it is Passover, but you are creeping the hell out of me. Niju is a civ, I believe the reveal. Scotty I will address in a separate post. I waffle on sig, I see the points on him, but I also see the signess that gets him mislynched, and I am not getting the sly feel I get from bad sig, but I never did read him that well and have joined too many incorrect sig wagons, so i am leery, maybe more so that I should be, of sigwagons. Did DH interact much with sig? If they did I missed it. Sloonei I have mixed feels on, his super civ demeanor is always impressive, but the things he is saying are making me tense. Daisys support is making me trust him a bit more, but only a bit. I feel pretty good about Daisy, from her first post when I read back in Cerberus, she felt civ to me.

I personally would, in addition to Niju, cross LoRab off this list (I don't see her feeling threatened enough to kill anyone twice in a row), and Daisy as well, as my patented "Sloonei Most Town Read" in this group. I might also strike Scotty becasue I think if he's bad, he's more likely to be Even.

I would like to get the person who killed DH becasue they killed him dead with extreme prejudice, but I would be happy with an Even, too.

I have to get ready for work, but I promise I will write a better post re my vote change later, Scotty

Scotty wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:45 am

Quin wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:38 pm Scotty made this big INH interactions post out of nowhere, threw a vote on him and then dropped the interactions scumhunting angle completely. Yuck!

“Out of nowhere”
Wilgy’s interactions should be scrutinized, and since a few people have already made reservations against INH, I used the ole “search” function in INH’s post history for Wilgy and there you go. I don’t like it.

I did a similar breakdown of Boom, but found far less defending and far more offending. I dunno, I feel like INH looks worse for wear when it comes to Wilgy.

“Dropped the interactions scumhunting angle completely”
Wha huh? I don’t know what you’re talking about, bub

Quin wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:30 pm Plus since the moment i saw INH in this game i've wanted to dryhump him into the nth dimension so there's that too

Ok wait so you’re adamantly defending the dude that only comes out of his hidey hole when he’s taking heat? All because you haven’t gotten spayed and neutered?

Look, this sig case he just popped out is only happening because he’s leading the lynch and needs a scapegoat.
INH has been genuinely peeved to be taking heat this entire game, but looking at his history of the past 12 days, how is it that he’s saintly?

Naw dog.

sig wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:09 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:59 pm quickly popping in to throw out a useless vote

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

I'll omgus on this.

[VOTE: insertnamehere] aubergine

sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:38 pm And those who say that I've been playing differently since my second role, that's true I've tried to be more active and engaging less zany since I'm now on my last life and I'd rather not die yet.

A few quick reads/salad
SVS - She seems good right now, contributing a fair amount and I'm not getting baddie gut vibes from her.
Epi - Same as SVS he seems genuine and is contributing
INH - His push on me seems genuine so at the very least he wouldn't be on one mafia team and I don't believe he's Wilgy teammate. So he could be Even, but doubt it.
Lorab - Been back and forth on her, but I'm back to thinking she's a civ/indy
Sloonie - He still has two lives correct? And hasn't been killed yet, I wouldn't mind lynching him to even the playing field at some point. Also i'm not convinced that he's a civ. More on this later.


That's all i've got time for right now, if anyone has specific questions feel free to mention me.

sig wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:08 pm I'm sticking to my guns here, right now it might not matter but by end if game time if he has two lives it could fuck up the civs. Plus mafia hasn't targeted him which i really dislike.

My suspicion of sloonie even if its flipflopped should and is clear I've thought hs could be mafia since the beginning.

Its also laughable to pursue me for this and say it makes me look bad. Sloonie is in no way a low hanging fruit and I'm in no way a town leader who ppl will blindly follow. It makes no sense for me as mafia to say this. In fact its like North korea saying they'll beat the U.S. in a war. Nobody believes it'll happen but it still makes the news.

Boomslang wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:11 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:30 pm

Boomslang wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:26 pm I think colonialbob and sig are the strongest candidates.

why these two? and if I asked you to pick the stronger candidate, which would you choose?

Argh, misread the polls; I'd thought both colonialbob and sig were on the "first voted Speedchuck and then Wilgy" train. Cbob did do a Speedchuck to worthless DH vote, however. Not sure if the context of the DH kill adds any more information about that vote, given that we still have two mafia teams still out.

I'd say sig is the stronger candidate. His "sticking to his guns" comment gaslights people who are questioning him over Sloonei suspicion; it strikes me as someone who's caught in a slip doubling down. Also, "Plus mafia hasn't targeted him which i really dislike" is pouring a nice tall glass of WIFOM.

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 5:33 pm Let's look at INH's interactions with Wilgy:

Firstly, I would like to direct everyone to the case I made about INH on Day 4- I totally forgot about it and found it odd at the time in relation to Wilgy lol

Now I'll fill in some gaps.

Spoiler: show

People I'm looking at today, in no particular order:

Sig - Same reasons as yesterday. May vote for him.
Daisy - Not really done much other than go after Boomslang for kinda flimsy reasons and randomly vote for Wilgy. May vote for her.
Kyle - I suck at reading him, so I'm kinda fighting my instincts on this one, but I really didn't like his overreaction to the perceived overreaction of Boomslang's 70% comment. Not gonna vote for him today due to insanification.
Scotty - The Lorab thing is weak sauce. I myself sometimes struggle with having solid reads, and can be hella reticent to concretely voice my opinions, so Lorab is reading as a town-read to me. Scotty sure is posting a bunch, but I'm not really sure what all he's saying. Plus, he hasn't yet posted a Survivor Mafia 2 in The Drawing Board forum. We should lynch him solely for that. May vote for him.
Wilgy - Good ol' unreadable clusterfuck-y wiggly Wilgy. I appreciate his defense of me against Sloonei's nonsense, but he's still one big question mark to me, way more than perhaps any other player. Probably won't vote for him.
Nijuu - Like his Sig vote, but still a bit of a blank read. I know that this is WIFOM soup, but considering that it appears that mafia remain mafia after losing a life, I can't help but wonder if they'd NK one of their own early on just to muddy up the waters. It's a dumb reason to suspect Nijuu, as I'm well aware, but it's why I can't really loosen up and townread him. Probably won't vote for him.

-This is his first mention of Wilgy, and it's Day 3. He 'probably won't vote for him'

Spoiler: show

Screw it, I'll make my own super-cool rainbow list. What it lacks in visual flair, it makes up for in readability.

JoH
Marmot
Ninja
Boomslang
Sloonei
Lorab
DrWilgy
Kylemii
Scotty
Sig
Spacedaisy

I can't keep the original colors on this list in quoting from old Bidoof, but Wilgy is a solid yellow in this, while Marmot is a solid green.

Spoiler: show

INH wrote:

Daisy wrote:Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:46 am
I have been doing most of my reading at work, which is why when I post it has more thoughts. I can't post as easily at work. So I know that when I was catching up once Wilgy started talking something he said jumped out at me and immediately made me think, "teammates." But I can't recall off the top of my head. I will need to find it again. I just don't have time tonight.

On another note, I think I was a lot more loud about the fact I didn't like Boomslang jumping on the dumb 70% thing. I get why it doesn't make sense as a statement, but I think Boomslang is a really smart dude. He should have been able to realize, that this statement is not one that logically would say "Baddie." So the fact that he based his vote on that dumb comment is what bothers me. in fact that is what bothers me about Boomslang overall. I have a high amount of respect for his intellect in general. And I struggle to find the logic in his suspicions. This could entirely just be a difference of how we think, that is my only hindrance in this. But I have no qualms about the fact I suspected Boom based on that. I think it's weird no one really talked much about the fact I took this strong stance about it. And even weirder that I don't even remember Kyle having made a big deal of it.

I don't have the immediate feeling of "TOWN" from Kyle that I have in the past, but I haven't had any kind of feel.

At one point in my read through, I had the thought that I believed either Boomslang, Blooper or both were bad but I didn't believe they were both good. I can't recall why now though. Perhaps something to do with how they interacted. I'll have to revisit to figure it out again.

Uh something else, I can't recall. Someone that had listed suspicion of me seemed fake as shit, but now I don't remember which one. Must research to recall.

That's all I can think of tonight. My energy went to researching Wilgy to decide if I was on crack or not regarding my perception of his meta. I decided that I don't think I am. However I will add this caveat. The older games lack this pattern. But I feel like it is present in all the games I checked from 2017 and so far in 2018. I didn't look through all 2016, I noticed the lack of it back in the 2015 games, but we're talking three years ago. I still feel fairly strongly that we are seeing bad Wilgy here. So much so I am willing to toss my vote there right now.

VOTE DrWilgy You asked for an aubergine fiiiiight, and I love you toooo. But I still think you are bad. But I love you, Baddie Badderson.

Coaching weak suspicions in "you're usually better" nonsensical sentiment. Boomslang is usually smarter (which Daisy and Sloonei seem to define as agreeing with their suspicions instead of having their own opinions) and DrWilgy is, I guess, more gimmick-y? The only thing from Wilgy's game-content that I've found disagreeable is his Boomslang vote today. Daisy's highly-subjective entirely-meta case against him just seems like formless finger pointing.

I'd vote for Daisy or Sig today over anyone else. I'm gonna try and ISO Scotty at some point and give my thoughts on him and his glut of content.

Blatant defense of Wilgy and attempt to discredit.

Spoiler: show

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:52 pm
@insertnamehere @Marmot whatcha gonna do with them votes?

Nothin', as I think both Boomslang and Wilgy are civilians. I ain't choosing to be complicit in this shit.

Wilgy is basically his best friend at this point. Tying Boom into a reason not to support the main trains is another negative here because it takes off the pressure of flat out avoiding only Wilgy.

Spoiler: show

inh wrote:Nothin', as I think both Boomslang and Wilgy are civilians. I ain't choosing to be complicit in this shit.

sloonei wrote:Even if it means our tribe fails to lynch yet again?

Boomslang wrote:Why are you so fixated on this? If people haven't achieved reliable consensus, why force their hand, especially when the other tribe seems to be chugging along just fine? If we go into the merge with most of our tribe, we have that entire background of play to inform our choices in later game.

sloonei wrote:I've been making this exact argument the last two days. But now I am of the opinion that whichever tribe fails to lynch becomes the victim of the nightkill. I'd rather we lynch a player around whom there is suspicion, than have the mafia pick off a player who is generally considered a townie. coughcough.

inh wrote:Even if you're true with your assumptions, this still just goes back to what I was saying about complicity. Seems to me that I can choose to either be an active participant in killing a civilian, or a bystander. I'm choosing the latter.

sloonei wrote:I disagree with this philosophy wholeheartedly, but I don't suspect you for it.

inh wrote:I'm moving my pointless vote over to Sloonei mainly out of sheer annoyance.

aubergine

Just weaksauce reasoning to avoid 2 people, AND basically uses it as a NO U even though Sloonei isn't accusing INH directly.

Spoiler: show

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:01 pm Alrighty, finally caught up.

Firstly, can someone tell me what the fuck "Bidoof" means?

Secondly, reading through the whole Speedchuck thing feels like randomly tuning into some later season of a heavily-serialized TV show, and trying to mentally fill in the gaps. Unfortunately, despite S~V~S being super duper earnest, I have to side with the dull, boring, rational, Occam's-Razor-y DH and DDL on this one. He's probably where my vote's going tomorrow.

Thirdly, Scotty. @S~V~S, you were pretty sus of him due to all the Day 5 shenanigans. Here's my perspective. Scotty, JoH, and Sloonei were all desperately pushing towards lynches at any costs at this point in the game, which was tricky due to having no real flips or info to go off of. Their solution seemed to essentially be playing spin-the-bottle with whoever either disagreed with them or hadn't posted in a while. Boomslang, who is my current top civ read, disagreed with them, and has been relentlessly pursued because of it.

Sloonei and Scotty had a case against me, which they themselves admitted was BS. Nevertheless due to a mixture of apathy and inertia, I began picking up votes. I wrote up a case against sig, which was based on actual, y'know, stuff, and that managed to shift their attention.

At the time, I was nervous that a scummeister could be using the pressure towards a lynch with more voters than Pikachu's to frame civilians.

The fact that this push to beat Pikachu's numbers happened at the same time as LC was about to be lynched over there, well, it don't look great.

Out of the three (relatively) hyper-active players pushing towards a lynch, Scotty's the one that looks the worst to me. JoH is dead, and Sloonei has seemingly calmed down a hell of a lot when the button got pressed. Scotty's the one who first made the switch when I protested against my lynch and offered an "easier" alternative.

This is all not to imply that I don't still suspect sig. As I said over at NuCerberus:

Like Quin said, there's a pretty decent chance that in a game this size that's this convoluted, (I know, I'm one to talk) there are multiple baddie teams. Even if sig's "wagon" was bolstered by an attempt to save LC's bacon, that doesn't discount any of my suspicions of him. Plus, sig had an extra life at that time, and I could see a baddie team not really minding bussing a member with two lives to try and save someone else.

Fourthy, Wilgy. I don't think Wilgy is bad. I think Daisy's meta case against him is hollow and kinda judgmental. I don't like Scotty and company latching onto him as an easy target due to his inactivity. The fact that vote after vote has been cast at him today makes me pretty sure we aren't gonna get anything out of his lynch. But, as S~V~S said, the dude's super-busy, and can't be replaced anytime soon. That's enough for me to sigh and add my twig to the Wilgy bonfire. Plus, I'd be super pissed if Boomslang got lynched today.

[VOTE: WILGY] aubergine

Someone left the water boiling on the stove and INH is feebly attempting to turn down the heat. But it's just too little too late. Another plea to not let Wilgy die. And yet he votes for Wilgy anyway, out of resignation to the fact.

Also to note, cbob and speed immediately vote for INH because of this post.

Spoiler: show

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:25 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:21 pm Whether I agree with your reasons or not is irrelevant.

The problem is that you began a vote post with "I don't think he is bad"

The devil is in the details.

Uh huh.

Well, if you aren't willing to talk about the reasons behind my vote, then your case is irrelevant.

Nothing I have seen from Wilgy makes me think he is bad. But, he's still, IMO, the best lynch candidate for today.

I don't think those two statements are contradictory.

It's resignation. It's like ogling a girl at the beach in front of your girlfriend and when she catches you, explain that she walked into your line of sight and what else were you supposed to do??

Spoiler: show

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:51 pm Please allow me to have my S~V~S moment of Atticus Finch'ing Wilgy before he gets decisively sold down the river.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:53 pm Hey why are we all on wilgy now? This thread seems just be barreling down the path of least resistance right now. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but there's not a whole lot of critical discussion going on here. What's more fun and exciting than sound critical discussion?

This is the post that I keep coming back to. This here thread's hella flighty, going after, as Sloonei says, the path of least resistance.

That's because of a strange contradiction which is occupying this game. Despite having successfully killed multiple mafia members, no one's actually acting like they know what's going on. People aren't really extrapolating things from flips. Instead, we're going with gut reads and flights of fancy. Except, of course, when an act of bizzarity like the whole Speedchuck conundrum pops up, which, to be honest, would have gotten him lynched in whatever game it happened in.

It's hard to pinpoint the root cause of this passivity and confused malaise, *COUGH*CHICKACHIKAMECHANICS*COUGH* but we can see it displayed in full force with the case against the good honorable Doctor Wilgy, who, let's be honest, is definitely gonna be lynched today.

SYNDICATE CRIME STORY

THE PEOPLE VS. DOCTOR WILGY

1. "META"

Spacedaisy's argument which more or less kicked this whole thing off centered around her belief in a simple dichotomy between the good, civilian DrWilgy, and the evil, scummy Mr. Hyde DrWilgy. Good Wilgy is zany, irrelevant, and usually actively self-sabotaging. We've all seen DrWilgy in games before, acting like some kind of madman, randomly interjecting nonsensical asides into the thread. It's what he's known for. He's a successor to the previous King of Irreverence, @Vompatti. (RIP) That, according to Daisy, is the "civ" Wilgy.

Meanwhile, there ostensibly exists a second doppelganger-esque version of Wilgy which lies in wait, exhibiting such maniacal stratagems as "logic," and "effort" to stymy people into believing he's civilian, when really he's a dirty, rotten scummeister.

Basically, "weird" Wilgy = civ, and "intelligent" Wilgy = scum.

That's a pretty bullshit meta case, even by the low standards of meta cases. Assuming that this is true impugns the good Doctor's character. Who are we, who presume to know what lies in the mind of Wilgy? This is the Game of Champions, and despite a sluggish start, I'd expect everyone to bring their A-game. (Even though I myself have faltered at this due to hosting obligations.) It's a dumb, reductive, and certainly not flattering case that throws context out the window. Furthermore, and this is just my opinion, I'd rather play with a persuasive, involved, comprehensible version of Wilgy than the fountain of wackiness. Enthusiastically agreeing with this meta case seems like a way to message to Wilgy that he should be less involved in games, because people will just assume that he's, y'know, trying because he's bad, and not because he just enjoys playing.

Bleh.

2. "PREVIOUS ROLE"

As far as I can gather, and this has kinda been my pet theory from the start, roles don't actually come with a pre-defined alignment. S~V~S was the literal plague, and she's a strong civ read for me.

It seems to me that if you suspect Wilgy because of his previous role, you must also view everyone else through that lens. No cherrypicking who "it makes sense for." For me, that has too many repurcussions that contradict my views.

3. "THE SPRITYO KILL"

Really, Sloonei has been the only one beating this drum, and I have to give him credit for it. This reason's way stronger than the first two, mainly due to its reliance on facts.

FACT: Sprityo was killed Night 8 on the Pikachu Tribe after the wacky swap.

FACT: It must have been (at least) one of the following eight people - Sloonei, Kylemii, Spacedaisy, Scotty, DharmaHelper, Epignosis, Sprityo himself, or DrWilgy. (At least) one of those eight people is a moiderer.

This is where things get all subjective-y, but I've personally had more reason to suspect Daisy, Scotty, and DH than Wilgy. Interesting how they all seem to be funneling onto him today. I don't jive with Sloonei's POE reasoning, and if you suspect any of the other eight people, you don't either.

4. "DAMMIT, GOLDEN, YOU REALLY COULDN'T FIND A FRIGGIN' REPLACEMENT FOR THE GAME OF CHAMPIONS?"

This is the unescapable reality which will dictate why he'll probably be lynched today. DrWilgy has a ton of shit going on in his life currently, and cannot participate in the thread or lend to discussion very much. He popped back up during on March 21st, and has posted a couple of times since then, but overall does not seem to be stepping up his participation. Wilgy has gots to do what Wilgy has gots to do.

All that makes him an uber-easy target. No resistance, no pushback. All you have to do is sigh and go, "Wilgy, I guess," and everyone will nod their head in understanding. And that's why he's gonna be lynched today. Not because of any solid reasoning. Because he's the easiest option, the path of least resistance.

My fellow Champions, why must it be that way? Can we please all, including the poor old Doctor Wilgy, find in our hearts to try and do better than this?

Hell, lynch me for posting a large, rambling, nonsensical post passionately defending an inactive player without really providing a strong alternative! At least that's an actual reason for suspicion.

So the last lynch when he decried Wilgy's fate was the 1st lynch. Now he comes in with this gigantic summation and last ditch effort to keep Wilgy alive. This could be, in INH's mind, a civ performance when Wilgy is inevitably lynched, and would look like the work of a hard-working misguided civ that was just wrong.


I don't like it, sam I am. I'm willing to lynch INH today.

vote INH aubergine

S~V~S wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:12 am I just started rereading Cerberus from this perspective; why these targets?

I am gonna drop the eggplant on INH for now. He defended Wilgy quite a bit in early days, and again in later days. J O'H, who was the civviest civ to civ was on his back, and subsequently died via Strex. And if there is one person that I think INH would expect to see through his baddie self, it would be DH. And DH was killed with extreme prejudice starting Night 9 (the merge was Day 9), then Night 11, INHs' first two nights in the room with DH. He asked about Negan sightings when we first got to Pikachu, first thing. He never mentioned it here, not even to razz DH about it, although that seemed to be his primary interest when the Pikachus got to Cerberus.

I did not finsih rereading him at Cerberus, and I did not read him in ISO after the Merge, so my Aubergine could change, but right now I feel he is the person who is most likely to have wanted DH dead who did not interact with him before the merge.

Tossing the Aubergine, *VOTE INH*

Dom wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:23 pm INH
Boomslang
Nju
colonialbob
Daisy
DDL

who is your biggest suspect and why?
who do you trust the most and why?

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:50 pm @insertnamehere i need a new theme for my T O W N C O R E and as my newly appointed second in command you get to decide what it is.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:10 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:01 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:50 pm INH: Why did you withhold your defense of Wilgy until today? None of the arguments against him changed or evolved since before.

I didn't purposefully withhold anything. I stated that I didn't agree with Daisy's case and thought it was bullpucky when she posted it in the Cerberus Tribe thread. I stated that I had misgivings about voting for him, but I still did it anyway on Day 9. That led to people voting for me for "distancing." Then, when I posted a spirited defense of him, the same handful of people responded to me with a shrug, basically ignoring the question of his alignment, and asked me "why not Wilgy?"

I don't mean that you purposefully withheld your defense.

Who should die instead of Wilgy?

THE CASE AGAINST SIG

this is gonna have to be multiple posts because ISO’ing someone is fucking impossible on phones

insertnamehere wrote: ↑
Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:51 pm
Quick non-insanified explanation of my Sig vote yesterday.

I didn't like his statements on the haiku situation, it kinda felt like covering for possible liars.

I sided with Boomslang on the whole 70% comment. Thought it was weird, and didn't like how people jumped to sig's defense and attacked Boomslang simply for pointing it out.

Then there's his flippity floppity treatment of Sloonei which just felt disingenuous. TBH, I might end up voting for him again today.

To elaborate, he went from town reading Sloonei to voting for him to once again to town reading him to calling his posts scummy a couple hours later. All the while, he was accusing Sloonei of “flip-flipping.” He later provided some explanations that were more than a little half-assed, IMO.

Early in the game, he called Sloonei’s case against me weak and thought it reflected poorly on Sloonei.

By Day 4, he’s completely reversed that opinion, and considers me one of his top suspects because he now believes Sloonei’s early case against me was “good.”

He just hasn’t really shown any consistency in his reads and views, seemingly changing them depending on which way the wind blows. He hasn’t contributed much if any substantial content to the thread, and is by far the strongest candidate for today’s lynch, in my opinion.

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:01 pm Thirdly, Scotty. @S~V~S, you were pretty sus of him due to all the Day 5 shenanigans. Here's my perspective. Scotty, JoH, and Sloonei were all desperately pushing towards lynches at any costs at this point in the game, which was tricky due to having no real flips or info to go off of. Their solution seemed to essentially be playing spin-the-bottle with whoever either disagreed with them or hadn't posted in a while. Boomslang, who is my current top civ read, disagreed with them, and has been relentlessly pursued because of it.

Sloonei and Scotty had a case against me, which they themselves admitted was BS. Nevertheless due to a mixture of apathy and inertia, I began picking up votes. I wrote up a case against sig, which was based on actual, y'know, stuff, and that managed to shift their attention.

At the time, I was nervous that a scummeister could be using the pressure towards a lynch with more voters than Pikachu's to frame civilians.

The fact that this push to beat Pikachu's numbers happened at the same time as LC was about to be lynched over there, well, it don't look great.

Out of the three (relatively) hyper-active players pushing towards a lynch, Scotty's the one that looks the worst to me. JoH is dead, and Sloonei has seemingly calmed down a hell of a lot when the button got pressed. Scotty's the one who first made the switch when I protested against my lynch and offered an "easier" alternative.

This is all not to imply that I don't still suspect sig. As I said over at NuCerberus:

Like Quin said, there's a pretty decent chance that in a game this size that's this convoluted, (I know, I'm one to talk) there are multiple baddie teams. Even if sig's "wagon" was bolstered by an attempt to save LC's bacon, that doesn't discount any of my suspicions of him. Plus, sig had an extra life at that time, and I could see a baddie team not really minding bussing a member with two lives to try and save someone else.

colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:23 pm

insertnamehere wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:01 pm

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:50 pm INH: Why did you withhold your defense of Wilgy until today? None of the arguments against him changed or evolved since before.

I didn't purposefully withhold anything. I stated that I didn't agree with Daisy's case and thought it was bullpucky when she posted it in the Cerberus Tribe thread. I stated that I had misgivings about voting for him, but I still did it anyway on Day 9. That led to people voting for me for "distancing." Then, when I posted a spirited defense of him, the same handful of people responded to me with a shrug, basically ignoring the question of his alignment, and asked me "why not Wilgy?"

The handful of people that voted for you were me, speed, and I think DDL. Speed is gone, and I thought your case was pretty solid.