The Syndicate

nutella wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2019 12:03 pm Okay juliets I'm looking at your iso for where you "considered" some points on LC. Mostly what I'm seeing is you asking what the reasons were and then dismissing them.

juliets wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 1:52 pm
indiglo wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 1:44 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 1:27 pm
indiglo wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:48 pm [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

It's the best thing going that isn't a Creature vote.

I will not be here for EOD today, but I have several hours still. So hopefully we can stay organized.

(Also, Creature, if you really are mafia, I tip my hat to you. lol )
indi, did you see something in LC's ISO that convinced you to vote him?

I'm not married to my vote for LC. At this point, I feel like my most likely candidates would be between Mac, Wilgy and LC. Because of how the votes started going down from the beginning of this day phase.

I wanted to get a vote on the board, and of those 3, LC had the most votes so far. I'm open to further discussion for sure, and vote changing, up until the time I have to leave.
Ok, so it wasn't something you found in his ISO that convinced you. I just ISO'd him and didn't really see a lot. His beef with Creature seemed to be the player salad issue, and other than that he responded to Mac's plea to please vote Creature. @Long Con correct me if I am wrong.

juliets wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 1:47 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 1:43 pm @juliets it did fit the standard salad definition of "a, b, c, or maybe d" so it was a valid call-out but I think LC got a bit too excited about it/may put too much weight on it. I think I've also seen civ LC get overexcited about catching a salad though
OK nutella thanks, particularly for the info that his "huge black mark" comment may be NAI.
Basically you seem pretty neutral-to-dismissive toward the points on LC, and I could see your questioning as a teammate avoiding a lack of acknowledgement of the suspicion but ultimately going with the creature vote with not much explanation:

juliets wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 4:49 pm yeah suspicious or not I think I'm going to vote Creature for similar reasons.
So I'm not entirely convinced by your defense but I can see a world where you're being honest, and since I'm feeling better about LC and this is partially positing a teammate relationship I may cool down on it.

I am alternatively considering a bwt/wilgy w/w universe.

I generally collect info by questioning and then ponder it. With indiglo, she said she was going to ISO LC and since she voted for him later I thought she had found something in his ISO. When I asked her what she found she didn't answer the question but proceeded to tell me of those who had the most votes he looked the worst to her. That made me suspicious (and in fact as I write this I'm thinking I should go back and look at her more closely). I did consider Drago's case but most of the things he listed seemed NAI to me based on what I have seen out of LC over the years. Without going back and looking I believe he's the one that mentioned LC's sabie comments looked stiff and I could see that but in the end that wasn't enough for me to vote him.

So Wilgy and bwt. Is it bwts quick jump on me that makes you suspicious or were there other things as well?

linki

Rej wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2019 11:48 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 10:25 pm Ok hi, first of all, I'm not even in on this "framing" plan you paranoid maniac. RIP Epignosis. Pretty unlikely that I night kill Epignosis at all, but that's just some true meta that you don't have to believe unless you already understand this. I'm not really putting that in as a defense, but it's the truth. It's not sporting. Epi is only fun to lynch.

indiglo wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 12:03 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 4:32 pm I don't particularly trust Mac. I mostly don't trust Mac though, I don't distrust him specifically for this game. Like, not any more than usual.

To me, in a game where infodumping isn't allowed, saying "Can you just vote there because I asked" carries a bit more gravitas, because it's about the level of strength one could use to make a "I alignment-checked Creature and he's bad" statement.

So, you're saying here that Mac happens to have an alignment checker role. On Night 1, he happened to alignment check Creature, and he happened to hit the jackpot and found out Creature was mafia? See, I think that's kind of lame.

I wouldn't normally think it was lame, because I generally think it's wise to posit any and all theories. But you said mine was lame, and yours is on the same level, so I'm calling it lame too.

You are a cool lady. And goddamn right my plan was lame. Yes, I suspected Creature for the innocent Player Salad. Mac's request though...

MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:00 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 9:09 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 8:42 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 7:41 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 7:30 pm this is the part where we lynch Creature
Why do we do that?
For once can the answer just be "because I am pretty sure he is bad"? Like just for once?
Yes. [VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Sorry, Mac, but where I come from there are consequences for this kind of thing.

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine
I rly don't like how Long Con performed against Indiglo - who gave me a rly rly strong townread here.
How do people town read Long Con based on this post? Am I the only who is actually dumb? Do I miss something here?

Is Mac always acting scummy as town?

Rej, which part of Long Con's post do you object to? The first part where he says "I'm not even in on this framing plan you paranoid maniac" he was talking to Drago not indiglo. So it is another part of this post you didn't like?

Also, what behavior of Mac's do you see as scummy?

Rej wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2019 11:26 am I am totally splitted and this maffia bafflegab is just killing me and totally new for me.
My vote on Juliets came from my gut feelings of D2, observing the low investment of Juliets took in both wagon and permanently questioning stuff that is discussed already. And I went sleep so I just left the vote on Juliets to see what happens and how I would reengage into the conversation.
I don't know Juliets meta but she suddenly changed completely, making me think she is either scum who wants to avoid a lynch wagon being formed on her or a town who wants to make a counter wagon. I am 60/40 still.

<snip>

Rej, I did start becoming invested in this game late for several reasons, all of which I outlined in the other game but not here. The shortened version is I've had several real life issues in the last week - several medical issues and it was my birthday and I was pre-occupied with birthday things. In addition, I was playing the other game which is a monster game and it was sucking up most of the free time I had plus studying the background for a massive non-mafia game I agreed to sub into at MU. I have had a lot on my plate. I'm now dead in the other game so that frees up a chunk of time to play this one better. So you are correct about your gut feeling that I did not have high investment.

The thing I don't really understand is your comment that I was "permanently questioning stuff that is discussed already". Can you point that out? It's certainly possible that I missed something while skimming through the game and asked a question that already had been asked but I don't know that I did it. Also, how does that make me scum? And finally, the reason why you saw the change in me is back to the first point: I died in the other game and I am not spending a load of time in doctor's offices like I was. It's just a matter of time that was freed up.

I strongly urge you to take another look at my behavior and see if it makes sense for the reasons I've given you. As I said before, I won't be devastated if I get lynched but it will be the third mislynch in this game if it happens. I really don't want that to happen for game reasons. I would like for us to pull a win out of this and that is not looking favorable right now.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:57 pm MacDougall juliets is bad because she is saying that in retrospect drago and I are obvtown for objecting to the creature lynch, whereas she never reconsidered her creature vote when it was happening. She made the appearance of taking us and our LC cases seriously after we were proven right, but only after the fact. While creature was being lynched she was totally content to just let it happen.

I will address this again because I don't think it proves anything, and others seem to think it does.

The series of events was this:

1. I suspected Creature
2. I considered Long Con
3. I voted Creature
4. Creature flipped civ
5. After Creature flipped civ the two people who argued against his vote appeared civ to me

So first, nutella says I never reconsidered my Creature vote. In fact, I considered the argument for Long Con BEFORE I voted for Creature.

Secondly, nutella says I only took the LC case seriously AFTER they were proven right which is false. Look at my ISO, I engaged with Drago about his case on Long Con BEFORE Creature flipped civ. I also engaged with indiglo about Long Con BEFORE Creature flipped.

Thirdly nutella says I was "totally content to just let it happen". What? nutella has the ability to get inside my mind and tell you all about the state of my feelings? Who of you are accepting this as fact? [mention]birdwithteeth11[/mention] ? I was not "totally content". I stayed in the thread after voting to keep reading and give myself a chance to change my mind.

So I ask those of you who vote for me, which of her points are you considering rock solid fact? I hope if you're voting me you can track it back to something other than this "case" against me.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:59 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:54 pm
birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:45 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:57 pm @MacDougall juliets is bad because she is saying that in retrospect drago and I are obvtown for objecting to the creature lynch, whereas she never reconsidered her creature vote when it was happening. She made the appearance of taking us and our LC cases seriously after we were proven right, but only after the fact. While creature was being lynched she was totally content to just let it happen.
See Mac Daddy? This is the kind of logic I can get behind.

[VOTE: Juliets] aubergine
The logic didn't even make sense.
Nah it does. The issue being I've been up since 5:30 this morning and it is almost 9 my time. Plus I have to get up at 4AM because I'm flying home tomorrow for my brother's best friend's wedding this weekend. So I don't have time to go and pull the specific quote. But I know it was one of the ones of you gloming onto nutella and someone else's case. I can't remember.

I'll try to pull it at the airport or when I get home tomorrow. But I might not be taking my laptop so it could just be me on my phone for a few days here.

Yeah I think you should pull it. I walked through why I had the gut feel on Drago and nutella in two separate posts. Like I said before, if you want to take me out of the game it won't matter to me nearly as much as it will matter to you after you see my flip so I would highly recommend you make sure you consider your evidence as rock solid.

Re: Dr. Wilgy

I had forgotten about this until I was reviewing bwt's posts:

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 7:16 pm As much as I trust Kyle and Creature right now, I just don't get the switch to Wilgy at the last second.

Kyle died that night and Creature died in the lynch the next day and Dr. Wilgy voted for him.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 11:14 pm [VOTE: DrWilgy] aubergine

I am seeing very little to give this man credit for.

I don't think it's Long Con or you and I don't see anything that makes Wilgy civ either so I'll vote there for now. Why am I the only one who answered your question about seeing anything civ in Wilgy? Maybe others will today.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 9:02 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:57 pm You guys can make this easy by going ahead and lynching me. I really just now started to be invested in this game so it won't kill me to go out. Don't say I didn't warn you thought that it will be a mislynch.

Silly bwt doesn't know me, my game, or how stressed I am right now.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] I have no reason to think Dr. Wilgy is civ.

You guys can make this easy by going ahead and lynching me. I really just now started to be invested in this game so it won't kill me to go out. Don't say I didn't warn you thought that it will be a mislynch.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:45 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:57 pm @MacDougall juliets is bad because she is saying that in retrospect drago and I are obvtown for objecting to the creature lynch, whereas she never reconsidered her creature vote when it was happening. She made the appearance of taking us and our LC cases seriously after we were proven right, but only after the fact. While creature was being lynched she was totally content to just let it happen.
See Mac Daddy? This is the kind of logic I can get behind.

[VOTE: Juliets] aubergine

The logic didn't even make sense.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] I finished nutella's ISO and she was not wishy-washy in Day 1 but she came in and voted pretty quickly citing that she was busy. I was also busy at that time, part of it being the other game and my read is that's part of what was making her so busy. That is one convoluted sentence. Anyway, I'm not ready to call her bad but as I said before, she does not stand out to me as good as much as Dragomir.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:49 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:43 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:27 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:35 pm 1. When I postulated that Dragomir was being pocketed by nut he said that he agreed but then closed the post by saying it wasn't a strong feeling. His last post of night 2 was very similar about me. I don't like it. He's afraid of outright calling either nut or I bad.

2. Epi wanted to lynch him. Dragomir avoided engaging Epi during night 2 beyond saying "good luck with that". Because he knew Epi wouldn't be here on day 3.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show
[VOTE: Mac] aubergine [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine
Drago, why would Long Con or Mac or both kill Epi? Seems like they would want to keep him alive if they are bad because he was town reading them.

Ok Dragomir, I see why you might feel Long Con would frame you but Mac was reading you as civ before the night kill. Why would he want to change directions on you by killing Epi to frame you? It just doesn't make sense to me.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:57 pm @MacDougall juliets is bad because she is saying that in retrospect drago and I are obvtown for objecting to the creature lynch, whereas she never reconsidered her creature vote when it was happening. She made the appearance of taking us and our LC cases seriously after we were proven right, but only after the fact. While creature was being lynched she was totally content to just let it happen.

I don't really understand this. I thought Creature was bad, that's why I didn't reconsider - though I will point out that Dragomir gave me second thoughts about voting him when he pointed me to his case. So after I found out Creature was civ, then my reaction was to think you were civ because you and Drago made so much noise about not voting for him. I was content to let it happen because I thought he was bad.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:47 pm @juliets can you please talk to me about Nutella.

Sure. A couple of people asked me why I thought nutella and dragomir were town last night so I went through their posts from last night and identified those that led me to get read them as town after Creature's lynch. I found Drago's posts more convincing than nutella's. For example, in one of her posts she said something in response to you I think about the Long Con lynch not gaining ground but it was not for lack of trying. Her posts don't indicate that she really tried at all. She voted him but Drago was the one with the good reasoning for voting him. Then tonight you made a point about her bet that Drago was town potentially being TMI. It did sound awfully strong for someone who really doesn't know. But I'm not ready to call her bad without re-reading her entire ISO. One hallmark of her civ game is her wishy-washiness and I want to see if thats present in Day 1 because it wasn't there in Day 2. So, I'll take a look and let you know.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:27 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:35 pm 1. When I postulated that Dragomir was being pocketed by nut he said that he agreed but then closed the post by saying it wasn't a strong feeling. His last post of night 2 was very similar about me. I don't like it. He's afraid of outright calling either nut or I bad.

2. Epi wanted to lynch him. Dragomir avoided engaging Epi during night 2 beyond saying "good luck with that". Because he knew Epi wouldn't be here on day 3.

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show
[VOTE: Mac] aubergine [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

Drago, why would Long Con or Mac or both kill Epi? Seems like they would want to keep him alive if they are bad because he was town reading them.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:27 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:40 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:35 pm 1. When I postulated that Dragomir was being pocketed by nut he said that he agreed but then closed the post by saying it wasn't a strong feeling. His last post of night 2 was very similar about me. I don't like it. He's afraid of outright calling either nut or I bad.

2. Epi wanted to lynch him. Dragomir avoided engaging Epi during night 2 beyond saying "good luck with that". Because he knew Epi wouldn't be here on day 3.
Mac why would he be afraid of calling you or nut bad? It's not that I disbelieve it, I just don't understand it.
Don't worry about it. I was wrong once so I'm probs wrong forever now.

You've been wrong in other games too but you've also been right so don't pack up your tent and go home. Humor me, I want to know what you're thinking.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:09 pm Mr. Drgmr mssg rstrctd ths DP.

I can read this just fine Drago so please continue trying to communicate through the day.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:44 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:41 pm
Drago and nutella look town to me and everyone else is up for re-evaluation.
On what basis?

juliets wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:41 pm
LC and Mac will be first.
Long Con and MacDougall are civilians in my book.

Good look for Mac and Long Con.

Oh also, I see [mention]Rej[/mention] voted for me without posting. What are you thinking about me Rej that makes you think I am bad?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:35 pm 1. When I postulated that Dragomir was being pocketed by nut he said that he agreed but then closed the post by saying it wasn't a strong feeling. His last post of night 2 was very similar about me. I don't like it. He's afraid of outright calling either nut or I bad.

2. Epi wanted to lynch him. Dragomir avoided engaging Epi during night 2 beyond saying "good luck with that". Because he knew Epi wouldn't be here on day 3.

Mac why would he be afraid of calling you or nut bad? It's not that I disbelieve it, I just don't understand it.

Love that gif Epi and I'm sorry to see you go.

My gut reaction that nutella was town after the lynch also comes from the lead up:

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 11:51 am I'm a little concerned about how easy of a lynch creature seems to be rn. The low level of conversation/lack of anyone objecting makes me wonder if he's a mislynch and the real scum are sitting back contented with it.

nutella actually started somewhat earlier than Dragomir wondering if the Creature lynch was a mislynch in the making.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:20 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:17 pm Yeah, there's like no resistance. Scum definitely wants this lynch to happen. Kyle even got killed to frame Creature.

This is a mislynch.
Yeah agreed

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:21 pm I felt that way about the Kyle kill as well

Somehow I missed this post in my Drago post above but here it is and nutella agreeing with him. This is happening earlier in the day (about 12:20 edt).

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:22 pm [VOTE: long con] aubergine he was too eager to join in Mac's party

She voted LC before Drago though with less explanation. The important thing to me is this started early in the day so I feel they were legitimately trying to turn people towards LC.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 5:37 pm Do you really think it's impossible for me, drago, and creature to all be town? Bc that's a universe that feels pretty likely to me here

This was in answer to Mac saying if Creature flipped good then nutella and Drago were bad. She sounds legitimately exasperated here to me.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 6:29 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 6:21 pm I mean from my perspective. The Long Con wagon you built never had petrol.

You should consider whether nutella is buddying you Dragomir.
I thought the LC case was fine but unfortunately not enough people were even active today let alone joined it. That is in no way my fault for lack of trying. Shut up

This post is one that didn't have an impact on me last night but today as I read it there's a question mark in my mind. I didn't see nutella really trying to get LC lynched as I saw Dragomir doing. So I guess in that sense Drago looks a little better than she does.

There was also a back and forth with Mac over his "extreme theory" that I didn't get anything out of last night and had some trouble following today. I mention it only because it's there and someone else may feel strongly there was something in that exchange that I should have paid closer attention to.

My gut reaction that Drago is town after the lynch comes from his lead-up to the lynch:

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:26 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:15 pm This lynch is look too easy.
looking*

Earlier in the day he started saying the lynch was looking too easy.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:26 pm Oh yeah, I definitely see a scum in Long Con here. His posts last DP lacked any real substance and game solving. They were flat posts that didn't do anything to move the cart(make town progress in getting scum). He's way too agreeable with everything imo, especially with Creature. Makes it even worse as I believe scum wants this lynch to happen and he's fitting the bill of that scum.

Lastly, his iso on Sabie felt fake, forced and disingenuous. It was like "let me iso the person everybody suspects so it looks like I have actual reads and I ain't just sheeping."

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

He tried to get another wagon going on Long Con and he pointed his case out later to me to try and get me to vote for him so he showed intent to move the votes off of Creature.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 6:09 pm The only way Nutella and I are mafia is if Creature is mafia as well. Like if Creature is town, then we can't be mafia as I find it bullshit that mafia would try to stop a mislynch and start a new wagon. That makes no sense. Mafia needs to get mislynches, and they just stop one for town cred? Nonsense.

Call this wifom, I don't care.

This rang true to me that it wouldn't make sense to try to stop a town mislynch to start another mislynch (because surely Drago wouldn't try to stop a town mislynch in order to lynch mafia). This really made sense to me after Creature turned out to be civ.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 6:19 pm I mean I can imagine mafia trying to be hesitant on joining a mislynch being like "oh guys, I don't know about this, this doesn't feel right, looks like a mislynch tbh".

And then the player does literally nothing to try to stop the lynch from happening and form a new wagon? That person is mafia for sure.

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 6:22 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 6:18 pm Mafia need to do more than get mislynches to win Dragomir they also need to prevent their own. Avoiding civ wagons is a good way to do just that. A civ wagon that forms incorrectly is almost always formed by civilians. It's the ones avoiding it that I look at. Invariably people immediately pick through the people that form the wagon to look for bad guys which Creature himself did already ironically.
I get what you mean here. It would be bad if they're avoiding the lynch BUT, if a player is actively trying to get a new wagon formed and completely stop the progress of another lynch cause they believe it's a mislynch(and it really is) then I find it hard to believe that the person is mafia.

Two additional posts on that same subject and I saw exactly what he meant and agreed.

He made additional posts but these were the most significant ones to me that resulted in my calling him town.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 12:58 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:50 am
I saw Drago and nutella as town because they were arguing so hard against the lynch. I know you have a theory that the arguing against it made them mafia (or I see you have revised that above to just nutella) but I didn't buy that argument the first time around. I will read through it again when I review your ISO later today to make sure I still feel that way. Anyway, it came off to me that they were most certainly town.

I am not bad, I've just been very busy and maybe haven't thought things through well enough here but I died in the other game so will be able to devote more time to this one starting this afternoon when I get home from work.
How did it come off as town to you though? Sorry if you already answered this as I'm posting while catching up. But I have a hard time seeing how one can view someone as civ/bad if they push against a specific lynch with no other context.

bwt, like I told Epi, I'll go over Drago and nutella's post from last night and pull out what posts made me gut read them as good after the lynch result. It seemed really clear to me at the time.

nutella wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 12:02 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:50 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 10:54 pm Okay so where I am at is I see three possibilities.

1. Given that the Creature wagon was indeed a civ wagon with very little push I am still looking for those who pushed against it for cred. These players would be showing TMI. Nutella, indiglo and birdwithteeth are the most questionable here, the latter two because they found their way off the main wagon with very little effort (when I observe BWT specifically, but would expect both, to me more likely to just agree to the main wagon if they are indeed civilians without info). Nutella more so because there is this sort of union between her and Dragomir but the tones are different. Dragomir gets a bit of a pass from me because he sounds more aggressive and is exhibiting more civvie doubt. I am gut and tone reading Dragomir town but Nutella has a more stiff feel in her posting.

2. Maybe we just have a lazier than usual Mafia team and rather than attempting to create some civ credit they chose to take the day off[/b] and just let the mislynch unfold and that I missed it entirely because I was blinded by my own read. I don't think LC and Epi are guilty of this, because Epignosis and Long Con were proponents of the wagon even before I kicked it off, they were not passively agreeing with it like some others. Juliets is someone who comes into question here, because she was on the wagon yet now in light of the flip is choosing to hitch herself to the nutella/Dragomir bloc... which I would do if I was in her position as Mafia. I find it questionable that Juliets has gone from being a proponent of the Creature lynch to now aligning herself with the primary objectors of it. It's a bit too quaint. DrWilgy is also a concern also is the one that put the third quick vote on that wagon and did so with a minimum of fuss, which I find strange for Wilgy who loves competing wagons. I also want to look at how Oreki and Matahari got their votes on to the wagon.

3. It is possible that we have a mix, something like the majority of the Mafia team choosing to be passive with one person angling for deepwolf status. Mathematically this is probably more likely, also supported by well as the fact that most Mafia teams don't bloc vote (they should but don't). In this scenario it makes sense that we would have something like a Nutella, DrWilgy, Juliets team, with Nutella taking the opportunity to pocket Dragomir and steer clear of the wagon to infiltrate any forming town bloc, with DrWilgy just relying on wifoming his way out and Juliets taking the safe option as she is want to do.

Lastly I am sorry Creature. I hope to see you in the next game, you play well.
I saw Drago and nutella as town because they were arguing so hard against the lynch. I know you have a theory that the arguing against it made them mafia (or I see you have revised that above to just nutella) but I didn't buy that argument the first time around. I will read through it again when I review your ISO later today to make sure I still feel that way. Anyway, it came off to me that they were most certainly town.

I am not bad, I've just been very busy and maybe haven't thought things through well enough here but I died in the other game so will be able to devote more time to this one starting this afternoon when I get home from work.
Yikes juliets bad

Yeah, but I'm not. You should know already that I've been very busy and haven't been able to devote the time I want to either game.

indiglo wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 11:54 am
juliets wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 4:18 pm @indiglo why Wilgy?

I posted my reasoning in the post directly before my vote post Iit was supposed to be all in 1 post, but, something freaked out and it posted before I could add my vote to the post):

indiglo wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 2:48 pm
Oreki wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 9:39 am I'm not finished with reading yet but looking at the thread, @birdwithteeth11 comes off quite aggressively and his behavior not really feel like town behavior, it's more comes off as a wolf for me. They way he ask players or point out thinks Kinda coming forcefully. I will read the entire thread and will provide my reads on my suspect along with birdwith.

DrWilgy wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 8:43 pm @Creature if there's anything that I've learned in my time on this planet it's that if you sus bwt day 1 and he's not bad, you are. Wanna flip that coin buddy?

So I just found this. Wilgy is calling out Creature for doing something that Oreki did Day 1... but Wilgy doesn't throw any suspicion Oreki's way for it. I don't like that at all.

Oh I see indi, I don't know why I didn't see that. Thanks.

Rej wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 8:54 am
juliets wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 7:38 am
Rej wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:44 am My town reads were correct the game through, and I am still...oof guys...

So it was clear this was a mislynch wagon but I like how people still kept discussing it through the whole day leading into nothing.

@Dragomir bruh, you don't wanna be mislynched again...it is one thing, but you also don't want to mislynch others. Others won't build up the psychology of not mislynching, but in the end you practice it, not only here, but you did the same on OJ. You don't let got of me, even when I jumped off the wagon on creature as one of the first.

From defense to offense...we don't have a townkilling by now and I rly sus Juliets now, because I am more used from her plays, she is doing more reads in generell etc, never seen someone playing so off and then going like:
"Hi Mac" - nothing else.

Ffs either MacDougall is town for 100% or he is deepwolfing and taking control of the wagons.
Also YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY 2 misslynches....Dragomir be like: "I am the most active here, leading the discussions..." tell me why is it so familair?
Oh right in our last game hosted by novas we both swiped town by forming one scumwagon against town after another and noone realized it while 1 obvious scum atleast were known to town.

I am getting heavy flashbacks here
Hi Rej -

Could you explain what you mean above where I underlined? You say you are more used to me doing more reads (I think that's what you're saying) and you never have seen me more "off" but we have never, ever, ever played together before. This is the first time. Also, Mac said "Hi" to me and I just said the same back to him, it was nothing more than that. I think he said it because I said I was going to look at him. So again, it's fine if you think I am bad for other reasons but it isn't because I'm different from how you've played with me before because THIS is our FIRST game together.
Oh so you are not Juliet from OJ, my apologize xd I thought you were trolling me.

No problem Rej, I thought you were probably mistaking me for someone else so I just wanted to make sure you knew I am not that person.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 10:54 pm Okay so where I am at is I see three possibilities.

1. Given that the Creature wagon was indeed a civ wagon with very little push I am still looking for those who pushed against it for cred. These players would be showing TMI. Nutella, indiglo and birdwithteeth are the most questionable here, the latter two because they found their way off the main wagon with very little effort (when I observe BWT specifically, but would expect both, to me more likely to just agree to the main wagon if they are indeed civilians without info). Nutella more so because there is this sort of union between her and Dragomir but the tones are different. Dragomir gets a bit of a pass from me because he sounds more aggressive and is exhibiting more civvie doubt. I am gut and tone reading Dragomir town but Nutella has a more stiff feel in her posting.

2. Maybe we just have a lazier than usual Mafia team and rather than attempting to create some civ credit they chose to take the day off[/b] and just let the mislynch unfold and that I missed it entirely because I was blinded by my own read. I don't think LC and Epi are guilty of this, because Epignosis and Long Con were proponents of the wagon even before I kicked it off, they were not passively agreeing with it like some others. Juliets is someone who comes into question here, because she was on the wagon yet now in light of the flip is choosing to hitch herself to the nutella/Dragomir bloc... which I would do if I was in her position as Mafia. I find it questionable that Juliets has gone from being a proponent of the Creature lynch to now aligning herself with the primary objectors of it. It's a bit too quaint. DrWilgy is also a concern also is the one that put the third quick vote on that wagon and did so with a minimum of fuss, which I find strange for Wilgy who loves competing wagons. I also want to look at how Oreki and Matahari got their votes on to the wagon.

3. It is possible that we have a mix, something like the majority of the Mafia team choosing to be passive with one person angling for deepwolf status. Mathematically this is probably more likely, also supported by well as the fact that most Mafia teams don't bloc vote (they should but don't). In this scenario it makes sense that we would have something like a Nutella, DrWilgy, Juliets team, with Nutella taking the opportunity to pocket Dragomir and steer clear of the wagon to infiltrate any forming town bloc, with DrWilgy just relying on wifoming his way out and Juliets taking the safe option as she is want to do.

Lastly I am sorry Creature. I hope to see you in the next game, you play well.

I saw Drago and nutella as town because they were arguing so hard against the lynch. I know you have a theory that the arguing against it made them mafia (or I see you have revised that above to just nutella) but I didn't buy that argument the first time around. I will read through it again when I review your ISO later today to make sure I still feel that way. Anyway, it came off to me that they were most certainly town.

I am not bad, I've just been very busy and maybe haven't thought things through well enough here but I died in the other game so will be able to devote more time to this one starting this afternoon when I get home from work.

Rej wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2019 6:44 am My town reads were correct the game through, and I am still...oof guys...

So it was clear this was a mislynch wagon but I like how people still kept discussing it through the whole day leading into nothing.

@Dragomir bruh, you don't wanna be mislynched again...it is one thing, but you also don't want to mislynch others. Others won't build up the psychology of not mislynching, but in the end you practice it, not only here, but you did the same on OJ. You don't let got of me, even when I jumped off the wagon on creature as one of the first.

From defense to offense...we don't have a townkilling by now and I rly sus Juliets now, because I am more used from her plays, she is doing more reads in generell etc, never seen someone playing so off and then going like:
"Hi Mac" - nothing else.

Ffs either MacDougall is town for 100% or he is deepwolfing and taking control of the wagons.
Also YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY 2 misslynches....Dragomir be like: "I am the most active here, leading the discussions..." tell me why is it so familair?
Oh right in our last game hosted by novas we both swiped town by forming one scumwagon against town after another and noone realized it while 1 obvious scum atleast were known to town.

I am getting heavy flashbacks here

Hi Rej -

Could you explain what you mean above where I underlined? You say you are more used to me doing more reads (I think that's what you're saying) and you never have seen me more "off" but we have never, ever, ever played together before. This is the first time. Also, Mac said "Hi" to me and I just said the same back to him, it was nothing more than that. I think he said it because I said I was going to look at him. So again, it's fine if you think I am bad for other reasons but it isn't because I'm different from how you've played with me before because THIS is our FIRST game together.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:44 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:41 pm
Drago and nutella look town to me and everyone else is up for re-evaluation.
On what basis?

juliets wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:41 pm
LC and Mac will be first.
Long Con and MacDougall are civilians in my book.

I'm operating on gut right now Epi but I liked how they looked toward the end of that lynch. I'll pull some quotes tomorrow because gut is always based on something.

Also I'm not accusing LC or Mac, I may very well come back and say I think they are town. LC is particularly hard for me to read, always has been.

Right now I'm going to watch TV.

linki

MacDougall wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 8:43 pm Hey juliets!

Hello Mac!

Dang, Creature I'm sorry.

Drago and nutella look town to me and everyone else is up for re-evaluation. LC and Mac will be first.

yeah suspicious or not I think I'm going to vote Creature for similar reasons.

Epi, I don't know that you will get to this in time but why did you drop your suspicion of Wligy?

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 4:32 pm I don't particularly trust Mac. I mostly don't trust Mac though, I don't distrust him specifically for this game. Like, not any more than usual.

To me, in a game where infodumping isn't allowed, saying "Can you just vote there because I asked" carries a bit more gravitas, because it's about the level of strength one could use to make a "I alignment-checked Creature and he's bad" statement.

I thought about that too LC.

[mention]indiglo[/mention] why Wilgy?

Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 2:17 pm
Dragomir wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:26 pm Oh yeah, I definitely see a scum in Long Con here. His posts last DP lacked any real substance and game solving. They were flat posts that didn't do anything to move the cart(make town progress in getting scum). He's way too agreeable with everything imo, especially with Creature. Makes it even worse as I believe scum wants this lynch to happen and he's fitting the bill of that scum.

Lastly, his iso on Sabie felt fake, forced and disingenuous. It was like "let me iso the person everybody suspects so it looks like I have actual reads and I ain't just sheeping."

[VOTE: Long Con] aubergine
juliets Read this. The strongest argument against LC.

Thanks Dragomir. I agree that his posts D1 lacked a lot of substance and game solving, the problem is he plays that way when he's town and when he's bad so it's hard for me to say that's evidence of scum behavior. I'll re-read his sabie ISO with your opinion in mind.

[mention]nutella[/mention] I notice you have also voted Long Con. What do you think of Drago's points here. If you've spoken to this and I missed it just direct me to your iso.

indiglo wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 1:44 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 1:27 pm
indiglo wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:48 pm [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

It's the best thing going that isn't a Creature vote.

I will not be here for EOD today, but I have several hours still. So hopefully we can stay organized.

(Also, Creature, if you really are mafia, I tip my hat to you. lol )
indi, did you see something in LC's ISO that convinced you to vote him?

I'm not married to my vote for LC. At this point, I feel like my most likely candidates would be between Mac, Wilgy and LC. Because of how the votes started going down from the beginning of this day phase.

I wanted to get a vote on the board, and of those 3, LC had the most votes so far. I'm open to further discussion for sure, and vote changing, up until the time I have to leave.

Ok, so it wasn't something you found in his ISO that convinced you. I just ISO'd him and didn't really see a lot. His beef with Creature seemed to be the player salad issue, and other than that he responded to Mac's plea to please vote Creature. [mention]Long Con[/mention] correct me if I am wrong.

nutella wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 1:43 pm @juliets it did fit the standard salad definition of "a, b, c, or maybe d" so it was a valid call-out but I think LC got a bit too excited about it/may put too much weight on it. I think I've also seen civ LC get overexcited about catching a salad though

OK nutella thanks, particularly for the info that his "huge black mark" comment may be NAI.

[mention]birdwithteeth11[/mention] what are your main issues with Mac? If you have already done a post where you explained what you see about him just tell me and I'll look at your iso.

Long Con wrote: ↑Mon May 20, 2019 10:05 am Great catch on that Player Salad from Creature. Huge black mark on his record for that.

LC, was it really player salad or was it just him listing his suspicions? (jftr I hate player salad because I can never remember the definition.) And I think calling it a "huge" black mark is a little much even if it is player salad.

linki [mention]SokothQultuq[/mention] Long Con's activity level has not been high in recent games. I agree with what he said about it, that it's NAI,

indiglo wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2019 12:48 pm [VOTE: Long Con] aubergine

It's the best thing going that isn't a Creature vote.

I will not be here for EOD today, but I have several hours still. So hopefully we can stay organized.

(Also, Creature, if you really are mafia, I tip my hat to you. lol )

indi, did you see something in LC's ISO that convinced you to vote him?

Can someone tell me who made a case on Creature so I can go read why he has so many people voting him? Just reading through this day phase I have to agree with nutella, there doesn't seem to be enough conversation today to warrant all those votes (some of which have changed to Long Con I think). And what is the case on LC? I'll ISO him but I'd like to understand the case on him.

Hi guys, sorry I'm not around today I will have to catch up in the morning as EOD is this evening in the other game and I have dinner reservations tonight.

I'm sorry sabie. Keep playing please.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 7:27 pm
Creature wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 7:25 pm That DrWilgy wagon for some reason gained a lot of resistance now that I take a closer look.
What about any of his posts made him come off as bad? That's the part I don't get.

Linki: Well that sucks.

I was about to say the same thing. No one could explain what made his posts bad and to me he looked just like normal Wilgy.

linki: I don't remember Daisy saying anything about having a close thread at night so I think the answer is yes, it's supposed to be open.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 7:13 pm i don't want to lynch creature

I don't want to Lynch either sabie or creature at this point but I don't get the Wilgy votes.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 7:03 pm 5 votes still missing...

Linki: Dr. Wilgy has never seemed serious to me. Maybe that's his persona?

I re-read him just now and he just seems not serious but to your point, thats how he always seems.

linki

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 6:53 pm I'd rather lynch Wilgy than Creature or sabie.

Ep, talk to me please about Dr. Wilgy. I'm a little anxious about sabie because she's getting so many votes.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 6:52 pm
juliets wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 6:44 pm
sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun May 19, 2019 5:58 pm How did I not answer why I thought it was weird? Kyle is all over the place being like I'm not gonna read anything and then explaining what the rule is then accusing creature out of nowhere who had assumed they knew them from some other site. It's a strange interaction. What response are you looking for?
I think either one of them could be bad because they're both acting weird but I'm really not familiar with either of them or their play style. Mac has been uncharacteristically quiet this game.
sabie, you say you think either of them could be bad because they are both acting strange but then go on to say you're not familiar with either of them or their play style. I just don't understand that at all. Strange as compared to what? Also, I would think you would know by now but maybe you've missed it, Mac is from the other side of the world and is asleep during the day when we are all posting. He's always quiet during the day, it's not uncharacteristic.

linki

I wasn't accusing mac just saying he usually posts more in general that's all. I know hes in a different time zone.

I just meant I thought the interaction and wording of things was weird but I dont know if they're always like that. Like it seems weird to me but maybe that's just how they usually talk. Like how they don't know how I usually play and that I have a hard time coming up with a lot of reads initially.
Every time I try to I am judged very harshly saying I dont have good enough reasons or explanations when its day 1 and theres not a lot to go on.

Ok thanks for responding sabie.

sorry sabie but I'm more suspicious of you than any of the others right now. [VOTE: sabie12] aubergine

Search found 171 matches