The Syndicate

timmer wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Personal Foul, on the Defense! Talking to Dead Players

15 yards, automatic first down.

Also, the bloomin' cobbler's awls were deflated, so that's anovver penalty.

I've done some re-reading and have come away with the belief that Made is bad. His lack of vote for the Dom/Bass lynch and his defending of Snowy are two of the reasons I think a vote for him is the right thing to do.

Spacedaisy wrote:LC, I don't really know for sure, but I find Timmer trustworthy IMO too.

Elo, I did post a summary. I find it suspicion that she came in here and instead of pulling the original quote in which I said "I have got a read on Juliets but I can see why her sudden inactivity looks bad especially considering what appears to be a missed PM," she pulled the post a few posts later where I said "it should have read I HAVENT got a read on juliets," and then used that to question me and cast suspicion on me about why I voted for her saying she was the best I had to go on. She said something to the effect of, "the best you have to go on is no read at all???" It was super shady business if you ask me. What I was going on was the missed PM coupled with her inactivity, not no read at all. That was just my edit.

Daisy, I must be confused. I pulled the second post where you corrected the first post because I thought that was the most recent post. I'm still not sure why I should have pulled the first quote but I'll leave that be for now. I was not attempting to be shady comparing that to the other quote saying I was the best she had to go on. I was obviously confused by pulling what I now understand to be the wrong quote. But lets put all that aside because the crux of the matter is what do you see that makes you think I'm bad? Is there something I said or did? There must be something. And you mentioned I wasn't active - I have more posts than you do so does that mean you are not active? I've already addressed the missing PM so what I'm looking for are the reasons, behaviors, that cause you to suspect me and why would you think I'm not active?

Also, I urge Daisy not to quit. There are many votes that haven't come in yet.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

juliets wrote:

Elohcin wrote:First off, Daisy's attitude of giving up is surprising to me. Daisy, can you go through Juliets case on you that you say is taken out of context and give us the specifics?

timmer wrote:For wot it is worf, I loike me case against made better. I put the case against ya equal ter the wahn against blooper. bof a step daahhhn wot I clock against made.

I can clock why people 're votin' ya, and I would not House To Let against ya bein' Sorry and Sad. but I won't be votin' ya today, I loike me Jack Jones stuff better.

I agree with MP in that there are several suspects on my list....more than the number of baddies left. Then, there are those I eel I can fully trust as well. Daisy could be right that there is one among the "trustworthy" that is fooling the rest of us. But even if she is, I think we need to focus on those we feel have played a baddie game first. I mean, if we just forget about those we suspect and begin going after those we trust just to see if we can find the one who is fooling the rest of us....now THAT would be foolish. In fact, maybe Daisy is saying that to throw us off our tracks. Maybe she wants us to begin suspecting one another instead of all the others we suspect.

Boom, Daisy, Made, Blooper.....I'm okay with lynching any of those. I still suspect DH as well, but the fact that LC trusts him so much makes me want to try to trust him too.

Elo, I didn't post a case on Daisy. She originally voted me and I was trying to get her to explain her case but she didn't. She changed her vote to herself because she now wants to be lynched which I'm guessing is a civ move.

Why?

She sounded sincerely frustrated and genuine about wanting to go ahead and show people who she is so everything else will make sense. As a civ you only have yourself and the rest of the civs to worry about but when you're a baddie you've got a team dependent on your vote. I just don't think she would give up as a baddie.

Elohcin wrote:First off, Daisy's attitude of giving up is surprising to me. Daisy, can you go through Juliets case on you that you say is taken out of context and give us the specifics?

timmer wrote:For wot it is worf, I loike me case against made better. I put the case against ya equal ter the wahn against blooper. bof a step daahhhn wot I clock against made.

I can clock why people 're votin' ya, and I would not House To Let against ya bein' Sorry and Sad. but I won't be votin' ya today, I loike me Jack Jones stuff better.

I agree with MP in that there are several suspects on my list....more than the number of baddies left. Then, there are those I eel I can fully trust as well. Daisy could be right that there is one among the "trustworthy" that is fooling the rest of us. But even if she is, I think we need to focus on those we feel have played a baddie game first. I mean, if we just forget about those we suspect and begin going after those we trust just to see if we can find the one who is fooling the rest of us....now THAT would be foolish. In fact, maybe Daisy is saying that to throw us off our tracks. Maybe she wants us to begin suspecting one another instead of all the others we suspect.

Boom, Daisy, Made, Blooper.....I'm okay with lynching any of those. I still suspect DH as well, but the fact that LC trusts him so much makes me want to try to trust him too.

Elo, I didn't post a case on Daisy. She originally voted me and I was trying to get her to explain her case but she didn't. She changed her vote to herself because she now wants to be lynched which I'm guessing is a civ move.

MP, sorry I just now was reading in the thread and saw you asked who I might be looking for for a vote. Currently I'm looking at Boomslang, Made, and Daisy. I'm re-reading them but also keeping my mind open for an aha! moment by me or someone else about someone else.

About bea and why I would defend her so hard. This isn't going to help at all but there was something specific that I don't want to talk about that leads me to defend bea. I don't want to give anything more specific because there are baddies about looking for people to kill.

Also, you made this statement at 1:17:

Spacedaisy wrote:When you see who I flip, consider what I've said.

I also received something last night but I don't understand the point of it. Whatever...

Also, That was a typo, it should say I haven't got a read on Juliets...

And then at 1:18 you post this:

Spacedaisy wrote:I'm voting Juliets because it's the best I have to go on. Good luck civs.

So the best you have to go on is someone you have no read on?? What about the people you suspected? What happened to this, at 12:50:

Spacedaisy wrote:SVS, I already told you all my suspects and I am feeling about you the same way you are feeling about me to be frank, I'm really not feeling you as bad as I was before.the person I most suspect you keep vouching for. I have reason to suspect Bea but it's not iron clad, so let me ask you this, how much room for error do you feel like you have about Bea being good?

Other than Bea I don't have a solid lead because a couple day periods ago threw my suspicions upside down. I am however, fully behind lynching someone inactive at some point. I am looking at Sabie personally. She is participating in film director but hasn't done anything here. If I was going to lynch a no participator I would start there or maybe Lorab.

Linki: I've got read on Juliets but I can see why what appears to be a missed PM looks bad for her.

And just once again, in case you didn't see it when I posted it a few minutes ago, there was no negative effect for people who did not answer the questions. No blocks or other actions. Nada. Nothing.

Let me also say I am not suggesting that you vote bea and it makes me suspicious that you would even think about voting for her. Listen to SVS. My point is it looks like you had a couple of people on your mind but then voted me for no reason. So I wait for you to answer the questions surrounding why you would vote for me.

Spacedaisy, what is leading you to vote for me? Your vote just seemed to come out of the blue. I am not a throw people under the bus voter - ask anyone who has been on a baddie team with me. As for not seeing the questions and thus not PMing in an answer there were no negative consequences from that (ask Epi if you don't believe me). So I'm not sure where you are coming from but I'm sure you'll be happy to tell me what you see that makes you think I'm bad.

I have no idea what questions we're talking about. But yay no one died!

Yay! A sorcerer! RIP Snowy I hope you were just playing a game with us that you are going to quit. PLEASE DON'T.

So Timmer I don't guess you can tell us anything about how you were saved, or at least what you think happened?

I agree with bea and whoever said it earlier, Snowy's posts lately are reminding me of his posts in Who where he was bad. That and his voting record (he did the same thing in Who there as well) are the two things that persuade me to vote for him today. And I'll do it now since I see timmer likes the votes to come in as soon as the decision is made.

bea who are you looking at for a vote today?

zeek wrote:You're mostly hard to read because you don't give much away, so where could I find evidence? Besides I was expressing my opinion, not an accusation. I didn't say you were bad, just that I think it's more likely than Russ, seen as I don't have much of a read on either of you.

When I think you're bad, I'll say so. Right now there's no case to be made.

Ok, fair enough.

zeek wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Process of elimination. Basically, out of the dom/bass lynch voters, you are in my unknown category like Juliets. You were the only two left to pick from that had voted. But....I would put Made being bad before you for sure. Russ had just made a stink about how he thought EVERY baddie would have voted in the dom/bass lynch.

I thought as much. I'd like to assure you I'm not bad but I don't know how to do that without revealing too much. Juliets is hard to read but I'd say she's more likely bad than, say, Russ - but I'm not sure if I'm giving him too much room after the whole possible role hint stuff.

Then why are you trying to read me as opposed to finding evidence? I know the answer here - there is no evidence I'm bad because I'm not.

Elohcin wrote:

juliets wrote:I prefer to fold in the people who didn't vote who had been active (i.e., not Lizzy). Bass didn't vote because he was away from home. But also Mongoose didn't vote because she was away from home (I think - is that when you were on vacation Mongoose) and then there is Made. Made, why didn't you vote? Just because they didn't vote doesn't make them good and I don't think the standard holds up that all baddies voted when some didn't because they were not around.

I agree with you. That was the point I made, but Russ made a good point for all baddies voting to keep their teammate alive.

Right and I agree with his point, except the baddies who couldn't vote to keep their teammate alive - like Bass himself.

I prefer to fold in the people who didn't vote who had been active (i.e., not Lizzy). Bass didn't vote because he was away from home. But also Mongoose didn't vote because she was away from home (I think - is that when you were on vacation Mongoose) and then there is Made. Made, why didn't you vote? Just because they didn't vote doesn't make them good and I don't think the standard holds up that all baddies voted when some didn't because they were not around.

Elohcin wrote:It honestly has nothing to do with your posts seeming baddie to me. It's more of a process of elimination thing.

Ok. I see what you mean. If you have any questions though i will be happy to answer them.

linki - and I don't think and haven't for quite a while that S~V~S is bad.

Or maybe baddie team 1 is the sorcerers since Dom is on there. The question still stands though.

What is baddie team 1? The Suits? Also, what specifically makes you think I am on that team?

Long Con wrote:Great thoughts, Timmer, I'm on board with all that. I just think we should lynch DH first. I can definitely help take out the rest of the Suits from the things I know, but there's no way I'm voting anyone but DH. We will see that he's bad, and it will open up a lot of avenues.

*votes DharmaHelper*

LC, what are the top two things that tell you DH is bad? Or even just one thing.

Russtifinko wrote:Gah! Thought of one more thing. DH, on the Made vote-force thing. I couldn't find the post, but if TH did indeed support Made's vote-force claim, would that not lend it some credence? TH was killed by the Suits on N5, the team you're claiming Made is on.

I didn't mean others came out and supported made, just that their vote was forced. I'm not positive it was TH. I'll try to look back and find one. Seems like we were the ones to notice it which makes sense (except for zeek if that was the first one after made because he came out and said made is not lying) because they can't say "my vote was forced". Anyway, it doesn't matter if anyone hinted at it or we figured it out it still means it happened to others too.

Timmer, interesting case. When I looked back at ninju because of my "gut feel" I stupidly did not look at her voting record. I looked just at what she said and how she responded to people. I'd like to hear what she has to say about what you have found.

Elohcin wrote:Oh and on Mongoose. She could be a baddie laying low, but I am more likely to see her has a busy civ who's not caring to participate so much. I believe she mentioned being out of town/on vacation or something. And, isn't she hosting another game right now? Not trying to defend her actions....just giving another perspective.

linki with DH - ah yes, I remember now. I was his partner at that time for the posting contest thing. Did we ever figure out if his vote was really forced?

Mongoose said she would be gone for 4 days vacation but did not post for 7 days. This was prior to her game beginning. You're right though she could just be a civ who is not participating much. I just find it odd that she has so little to say that has a lot of meat to it.

On the vote forcing someone came up the next day (was it zeek?) and said he now believed made, leading us to believe that his vote had been forced. It seems like a few others have hinted at that, seems TH might have been one, and so it looked like Made was not lying. Someone else may have a different read on that.

I just want to say when it comes to LC, that hissy fit he threw after he thought he was going to be lynched and before the post, made me believe he is probably good or possibly an indy. I just can't see him doing that if he was bad - he would look like an idiot if he had said that stuff and then been bad. The poorest of poor sports. I understand that some people will see this exactly opposite of me but thats ok. I bring it up just to see if it has any bearing on the way others think about LC.

I also agree that the Made case needs another look. DH, do you remember who made that case? There have been so many cases lately. Taking a look at the Bass/Dom vote again isn't a bad idea either.

Also, has anyone else taken a look at Mongooses posts? There is no substance and that makes me nervous. Also she didn't post for a long period of time - 7 days I think - when she was only supposed to be gone on vacation for 4. Worries me when people don't post for long periods in a game, especially if it's longer than they said they would be not posting. Anyway, just wondering if anyone else has taken a look.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Well, I suppose timmer seems less likely as bad since he was clearly targeted by the Sorcerers, so I'm willing to consider I might be wrong on something.

So thinking back to the Hatter, to see if we can nail down who it is, who has been targeted with it? Made N1, zeek N2, and juliets N3 or N4 (?)... is that all? I can't remember.

I was cursed and received a message coming out of night 3 for my actions on day 4.

bea wrote:Jc.said.she.was.cursed.by hatter and she.is.still posting.....

I fully complied with my curse. I can't tell you what was in the message about that but I can say that overall if you comply with a curse you don't get any punishment. If you don't comply the punishment can be bad. I'm doubtful that someones curse would last more than just a day or a day and a night.

linki - Ah great no one died!

DharmaHelper wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:In fact, I would bet there's at least one baddie in the original voters for Russ.

Hold that thought.

I eagerly await your clarification.

And I'm sorry I've suspected you off and on all game. I'm starting to believe my fears were unfounded.

I think we need to look at ni...nij...bloo...that one.

I will be interested in what you find. I re-read her maybe a cycle ago and couldn't find anything that made me more suspicious (I originally just had a gut vibe about her but could not support it with thread evidence).

Also RIP Roxy, I was pretty sure you were civ. Hope you feel better.

I am going to pick Lizzy to fight. Hopefully she will not have much fight in her, though I have no idea what the fight is all about.

Congratulations LC, I'm glad it turned out this way.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

timmer wrote:

Long Con wrote:MP I fucking supported you too. What a viper you turned out to be. Last time I ever do that. Don't even talk to me if you see me in a game again.

You can't really blame him, though? He IS technically playing his role to the best of his abilities. Honestly, he could have tried to turn the thread onto any of us, anyone who is not a recruit, basically. He's playing his part very well, I think. It just sucks that so many are blind to it, is all.

Frankly, I was shocked when people actually started listening to me. I thought for sure after the earlier discussion that I couldn't have pulled anything like this off.

So you admit you put one over on us and DH is your recruit or your narrator?

Well, this is the first time I've done this. I came into the thread again with like 5 minutes left and saw immediately that something had been spotted about Russti that was making people think they had made a mistake voting him. The clock was ticking and I couldn't find what it was that I believe Daisy thought but noticed that MP changed his vote off of Russ onto LC. So I followed him. I probably should have just voted for myself because I was confused but I didn't think of that at the moment. I just panicked. So I understand anyone that wants to give me a hard time about this.

OK, I'm going to go ahead and vote Russti but will continue to look at evidence that comes up about others. In other words this may not be my final vote.

MovingPictures07 wrote:That said, I won't put too much cart before horse, but I really think Russ is a better way to go over DH and Snowy right now.

Snowy, consider the points I've illustrated. Don't you find it weird the way Russ voted Boomslang if he thought the cases on him and DF were "equally weak"? Don't you find it weird that he voted for Bass over Dom if he was pinged by Dom and not Bass? Don't you find it weird that he thought DH was pretty sketchy on D1, but gradually backed off "giving him more time", and now finds him "very genuine" and thinks it doesn't make sense to act the way he is if he's bad?

I tell you what, I think Russ is bad. I really do.

You made some good points above about Russ and I do agree on the logic you used here (dunno what snowy believes, sounds like he's going to bed). I still think Snowy sounds bad as illustrated by timmer's points but I'm squeamish because I am still not finding DH suspicious and it seems like it doesn't make sense to vote for snowy unless I think DH is bad too. Maybe I'm wrong about that but it's how I feel at the moment because of the alleged association. So Russti may be the best pick. The fact that he skipped half the week this week does not make me feel good either because we are getting to the time when it's safer for a baddie to fly low (imo) than engage in discussion. I'll give this some thought. I did already re-read him, as MP said it doesn't take long.

S~V~S wrote:Because most posting effects and night powers last one day.

Oh right, i totally agree. The only reason I thought this one might be different is because it was another character. When I've run into this before, the game that sticks out is Inception where Tranq played an extra character, the character is around for more than one day. There have been other games with that mechanic, inception just sticks out for me. Your point is well taken. I asked the question, why hadn't people brought it up, and I'm sure this is why.

On another subject, as far as votes go I'm looking at Snowy. Timmers post was very well put forth to my thinking. I'm also looking at DH but its hard as I've seen him as civvie the whole game.

S~V~S wrote:

juliets wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

juliets wrote:I missed SVS's post about Lily being an avatar of light. Forget what I said in my last post.

I don't understand why disappearing after one day makes a difference. Could you explain this?

The role description for Voldemort says his horcruxes must be used each night and die out after use.

So do you think Reys curse or similar posting effects could have been a horcrux? Or just normal night powers that last one day?

The only curse I remember of Rey's was the emoticon curse. I knew it couldn't be the silencers so my presumption was it was one of the others - and there are a lot of others with secrets and potions. I don't know if it was a horcrux, potion, or secret. I don't know if there would be a horcrux for such an everyday thing as a posting curse but then I don't remember exactly what a horcrux is. I think of it as a spell. Why would you ask about Rey's emoticon curse?

Long Con wrote: Thanks for clarifying.

I think it makes sense for Lily to be around for one day whether it's Snape or Voldemort. They cast the 'Lily' spell the night before, and can post as Lily for the following day, or whatever. They have other spells to do the other nights, why would that spell effect hang around?

I actually thought Lily would hang around for a while as some of the extra non-playing characters in other games. I didn't realize at first she was a spell. But yes, through the conversation about this I agree it could be either but most likely Snape if it was an avatar of light.

S~V~S wrote:

juliets wrote:I missed SVS's post about Lily being an avatar of light. Forget what I said in my last post.

I don't understand why disappearing after one day makes a difference. Could you explain this?

The role description for Voldemort says his horcruxes must be used each night and die out after use.

S~V~S wrote:

juliets wrote:I didn't even think to look in Alice in Wonderland to see if all or some of my PM was there, but now I did and wow, it was from the Mad Hatter! Thanks for the idea zeek! So that just leaves the other curse where I haven't figured out the sender. Still possibly Snape.

Also, since Lily seems to have died out after a day doesn't that argue more for her being a Voldemort horcrux?

MP I will think about your theory but I'm not ready to put a vote there yet.

linki

Made said this as well, could you explain why?

And Lily was not a horcrux. Lily was an avatar of light.

SVS, Made said what as well?

I missed SVS's post about Lily being an avatar of light. Forget what I said in my last post.

Long Con or whoever asked, yes i was talking about this game not another. The mad hatter cursed me on the night I got cursed twice. I figured this out when zeek referenced a "book" in connection with the hatter (I had to think a few minutes before I realized he was talking Alice in Wonderland). So I googled AIW for the words in the message I got and there it was, straight from the book. There was also another statement in the message that now in retrospect told me it was the Mad Hatter. So I think what MP was saying is my cursings happened at a time when INH couldn't have done them, maybe because he was dead. (Even though I said "them" there is only one curse from the Hatter. The other had to be from someone else).

Also, I'm not saying I believe SVS is bad but I don't see anyone else addressing that Lily Potter disappeared after one day. Is there a way to explain that that doesn't involve SVS? Generally when I discover something like this I'm all wrong in my thinking or missed something important in the discussion. Such as Snapes potions or horcruxes also disappear after one day. I don't know the books or remember the game well enough to remember that.

I didn't even think to look in Alice in Wonderland to see if all or some of my PM was there, but now I did and wow, it was from the Mad Hatter! Thanks for the idea zeek! So that just leaves the other curse where I haven't figured out the sender. Still possibly Snape.

Also, since Lily seems to have died out after a day doesn't that argue more for her being a Voldemort horcrux?

MP I will think about your theory but I'm not ready to put a vote there yet.

linki

I finished my re-read of niju last night and didn't find what I was looking for. In fact, I found that I agree with her on a lot of things. I think two other people expressed some doubt about niju - did you guys find anything in her posts?

I co-hosted a game on the other mafia site where we randomed roles EXCEPT once we randomized if any of the no shows/low shows got important roles we switched them out. They can ruin your game. Wonder why we havent replaced the no shows here with dead civs?

I have to finish looking at Lon Con and then DH is next. DH has not pinged me though he does seem a little antagonistic. I think that's his way though and doesn't speak to alignment (I think someone else brought this up too). Then I will probably take a quick look at blooper. Something pinged me but it could be nothing. Who will you be looking at MP?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

juliets wrote:Wait - Mr. Boddy doesn't kill does he? I just re-read his description and don't see anything about a kill. And I thought he had forced TH to vote just this last cycle. I don't understand.

juliets, the baddie team kills are shared among the team. It says they "kill on odd nights".

Also, I bet he was blackmailed. His role information wasn't revealed because he obeyed the force vote.

Yeah, I knew that if he was forced his role info wouldn't be revealed and I forgot about the traveling vote. Pay no attention to what I post after 9:00 pm.

Wait - Mr. Boddy doesn't kill does he? I just re-read his description and don't see anything about a kill. And I thought he had forced TH to vote just this last cycle. I don't understand.

RIP TH - I was sure you were civ and sorry to see you go. See you next game.

Are we saying both Mongoose's vote and Turnip Head's voted were forced? Otherwise I can't understand a vote for Lizzie.

Turnip Head wrote:Oh come on Jules I know you've seen Lord of the Rings The Ring corrupts and manipulates its owner. It belongs to The Necromancer, and while he had it (in the stories) he basically ruled the world.

I guess this ring is from The Hobbit where it was a little more low key and belonged to Gollum, but Epi stressed its dark nature.

I don't even want to count the years it's been since I saw LOTR! All I remember about the ring is Gollum wanted it. But thank you both zeek and TH for explaining it to me. Maybe SVS can bring me up to date with hex and curse.

I have a couple of mechanics questions I need to ask.

First, what is the difference between a hex and a curse? I actually looked them up online and they were synonyms.

Second, for those of you who have knowledge of the ring what does it do exactly? People are saying it's too dangerous and I can't figure out if you're just talking about what the post says or if there is some common knowledge about the ring that I don't know (or don't remember from the Hobbit game). Thanks to whoever can answer these questions.