The Syndicate

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:30 am Good game folks! Sorry I was away yesterday. Also good game Juliets! You're always so hard to lynch, because even when you're scum I want to see you as town. :P

Thanks Luna. I had a tough time of it not having any partners and then we had the discord issue which sucked up all my time over the weekend. I just didn't have the wherewithal to spend a lot of time in the game at a crucial time. And nova did such a great job of leading the town even if I had time I don't know that it would have made any difference.

sabie12 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:53 pm Why was I killed off so soon? I figured I was kinda sucking and not much of a threat

sable, you were the only one there was NO reason to kill. I thought it would confuse people and it did. Others had voiced suspicion of me or were targets of suspicion themselves so it didn't make any sense to me to kill them. It was nothing personal at all!!! I dislike being bad because of choices like this.

Epignosis wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:49 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:42 pm LOL - Wow it was really hard Day 1 because DDL was really busy all day so I couldn't talk to him about bussing him, and I didn't want to do it without talking to him about it. So I ended up doing it late. I should have just stayed on Jack. Anyway, fun game Epi. And does anyone know what happened to Mac's invention? I blocked Mac night 1 so I couldn't do it again last night. Did leetics block keep speed from getting the invention?

He never sent in a PM.

I had a feeling that had happened.

LOL - Wow it was really hard Day 1 because DDL was really busy all day so I couldn't talk to him about bussing him, and I didn't want to do it without talking to him about it. So I ended up doing it late. I should have just stayed on Jack. Anyway, fun game Epi. And does anyone know what happened to Mac's invention? I blocked Mac night 1 so I couldn't do it again last night. Did leetics block keep speed from getting the invention?

I guess if nobody even wants to even talk about this there is no reason for me to be in here.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:02 pm Why aren't voting Speed?

I just haven't gotten around to it but I will go ahead and do it now.

[VOTE: speed] aubergine

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:15 pm Juliets reaction to the DDL suspicion and her handling of him were red flags on my reread. She was acting a bit ignorant and saying stuff "except bla bla bla, what's the case on DDL" and she was mostly agreeing with stuff. She also mentioned the re-read of a previous DDL game before voting Jack, yet she didn't do it and reach the conclusion to vote him until I came in and pushed her for it.

First, Luna also made a post that was "except bla bla, bla whats the case on DDL" and you did not call her out. I ALWAYS ask questions like that, see any game I've ever played. Also I re-read the beginning to U-Pick first, didn't find what I wanted and went on to Community. That takes time. I found what I was looking for in Community and then shortly after you posted your "push". I AM NOT THE BAD ONE! But I don't have loads of time to argue with you about it. If you want to lynch me go ahead. Then afterward you can lynch speed.

Exactly. I was just about to post similar thoughts. Something is not right here.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:11 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:20 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:08 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:00 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:15 pm Do you visit people at night Juliet?

No I don't.

Then you're our last baddie.

If you're town please don't withhold any information like Leetic to avoid being a target. You're already one.

Juliets, you missed this.

juliets

nova I absolutely DID NOT visit Mac and block him. Believe what you will but that did NOT HAPPEN. Maybe someone else blocked him, maybe he forgot to send the invention, maybe speed is not telling the truth, maybe Mac is not an inventor. There may be more options but those are the ones that come to mind.

I am still in discord today dealing with security but I will try and check back here as the day goes on.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:20 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:13 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:58 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:34 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:24 pm He was jailed last night, and no you haven't missed anything. Mac has been pretty apathetic

So you're saying that leetic jailing him would override him killing leetic? What makes you think that?

I'm leaning there yep. 'Cause it makes the most sense.

How does it make the most sense? It doesn't make sense to me. Why would his power go through if he was killed?

Action resolution.

Did you ask Epi about this? And he told you if someone killed someone else their power would still go through?

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:05 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:25 am

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:58 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:52 am There's 1 baddie left,

Scenario 1 - Speedchuck is lying about Mac's item and he's bad.
Scenario 2 - Mac is lying about his role and he's bad.
Scenario 3 - Juliets is our last baddie, a Mafia role-blocker. She blocked Mac to prevent him from confirming himself, and lead us into a showdown Mac v Speedchuck.

I think juliets is more likely to be bad.

Why do you think that Lunalee? There must be some reason.

Just narrowing down our pool of suspects leaves you in it, and nova had a good point that you could be a role-blocker. I always seem to just want to trust you're town, but at this close to end of game, I can't do that, and you haven't done anything to confirm you're town.

Speed could also be a role blocker. What makes you choose me over him?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:58 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:34 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:24 pm He was jailed last night, and no you haven't missed anything. Mac has been pretty apathetic

So you're saying that leetic jailing him would override him killing leetic? What makes you think that?

I'm leaning there yep. 'Cause it makes the most sense.

How does it make the most sense? It doesn't make sense to me. Why would his power go through if he was killed?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:24 pm He was jailed last night, and no you haven't missed anything. Mac has been pretty apathetic

So you're saying that leetic jailing him would override him killing leetic? What makes you think that?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:09 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:02 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:15 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:07 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:10 am [VOTE: Juliets] aubergine

Check your bowl of Corn Flakes

But wait, why me? And are you guys saying nobody got an invention? I want to understand these two things before I vote. (What does check your bowl of corn flakes mean?)

A bunch of reasons. PoE being one of them. Yes, we are saying that 'cause apparently Speed didn't get anything and he was the target.

How do we know that speed didn't get anything? And why wouldn't speed still be in the POE? Don't the same reasons you are voting for me hold for him? If not, please explain.

I don't, for sure. He's still there.

Not quite. He was jailed by a confirmed civvie jailkeeper.

When was he jailed? Also, why isn't Mac jumping up and down saying he gave the invention to speed? Speed says he doesn't have it and Mac said something to the effect of "what do you want me to say?" unless I have misinterpreted or missed something.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:15 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:07 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:10 am [VOTE: Juliets] aubergine

Check your bowl of Corn Flakes

But wait, why me? And are you guys saying nobody got an invention? I want to understand these two things before I vote. (What does check your bowl of corn flakes mean?)

A bunch of reasons. PoE being one of them. Yes, we are saying that 'cause apparently Speed didn't get anything and he was the target.

How do we know that speed didn't get anything? And why wouldn't speed still be in the POE? Don't the same reasons you are voting for me hold for him? If not, please explain.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 4:15 pm Do you visit people at night Juliet?

No I don't.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:58 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:52 am There's 1 baddie left,

Scenario 1 - Speedchuck is lying about Mac's item and he's bad.
Scenario 2 - Mac is lying about his role and he's bad.
Scenario 3 - Juliets is our last baddie, a Mafia role-blocker. She blocked Mac to prevent him from confirming himself, and lead us into a showdown Mac v Speedchuck.

I think juliets is more likely to be bad.

Why do you think that Lunalee? There must be some reason.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:01 am What kinda porn?

lol, do you want a detailed description?

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2019 1:10 am [VOTE: Juliets] aubergine

Check your bowl of Corn Flakes

But wait, why me? And are you guys saying nobody got an invention? I want to understand these two things before I vote. (What does check your bowl of corn flakes mean?)

Sorry I didn't make it in her after my event last night. My social life was interrupted by someone invading our discord site and start posting porn. We banned him of course but I had to research how we can prevent that from happening again.

Anyway, I'll catch up now and come back and post.

I have a rather busy day today - off to work in a bit and then I have therapy. I have an event this evening after which I will be tipsy. I should be able to be here some in the afternoon though for whatever discussion is going on.

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:40 pm @juliets how are you not dead yet? Did you hypnotise everyone?

Why do you think I should be dead? What is making you think I am bad?

MacDougall wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:05 am But for real, it's Juliets.

But it's not.

Dang. I apologize Jack, maybe I will be better recognizing your civ meta next game.

I'm not solid on speed at this point but I can't analyze anything else tonight.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:22 pm Let's lynch Jack first.

Ok with me.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:10 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:09 pm Ok so now we are tied. Does anyone know what happens in a tie? Also, @speedchuck the way I read your argument you are saying we should lynch you first, is that right? The argument though makes you seem town. I mean I can't see a baddie using that argument.

nah, he'd make it for the WIFOM as scum too.

ok, thanks for the input.

Ok so now we are tied. Does anyone know what happens in a tie? Also, [mention]speedchuck[/mention] the way I read your argument you are saying we should lynch you first, is that right? The argument though makes you seem town. I mean I can't see a baddie using that argument.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:56 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:50 pm Thanks for the perspective on SHP Jackofhearts2005 .

Also, I have been more focused on the "actually" tell being directed at me and maybe not focused enough on the fact that DDL was also a target and was bad.

MacDougall anything else you can add at this point about your speed vote? I am looking for an opinion other than Jack's.

novaselinenever I assume by your "Jack is bad yo" none of his arguments about speed have moved you?

lots of linki

From my town perspective, I voted Mac to get a reaction. I got a reaction from you and DDL. I continually questioned those reactions and determined that DDL was bad. Went back and forth on you but there's a clear difference in how you reacted to my Mac vote and explanation and the way DDL did.

From my scum perspective, I voted Mac for reasons that don't matter. I got a reaction from you and DDL. I then painted the two of you as scummy or ridiculous to either make you back off (which you did not) or to shade you (who I didn't pursue for a lynch). At the time, the accusation was that I was also doing these things to make DDL back off (which he did not) or to shade him. But DDL wasn't town and Speed claims to have never thought he was town. So how does that make any sense?

I do see what you mean. [mention]speedchuck[/mention] could you provide some perspective here?

Thanks for the perspective on SHP [mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] .

Also, I have been more focused on the "actually" tell being directed at me and maybe not focused enough on the fact that DDL was also a target and was bad.

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] anything else you can add at this point about your speed vote? I am looking for an opinion other than Jack's.

[mention]novaselinenever[/mention] I assume by your "Jack is bad yo" none of his arguments about speed have moved you?

lots of linki

Ok thanks Jack, I will re-read that section with your perspective in mind, read some more speedchuck, and then ponder.

Also what is SHP - was it a game here?

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:48 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:28 pm I'm still a bit torn on my speedchuck stance, but I'm thinking with 70% Confidence that he's town. But if I'm wrong I'm going to be so annoyed.

Why?

He’s making arguments that rely on doublethink and he did not want to lynch DDL. He was pushing me even after Leet, Nova and me all pointed out how DDL’s suspicion of me was fake.

What has Speed done to make you think he’s town?

Also Jack, could you give an example of his "doublespeak"? Help me see what you are seeing.

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention], the reason why your timing on the DDL read looks bad to me is you seem to want to use your case to take credit for the DDL lynch when really you just added on to others suspicions. Your statement below, for example, about when you suspected DDL is misleading Imo because you don't talk about all the posts that came before yours and the timing, i.e. you didn't jump in until the next day. Maybe I'm wrongheaded but thats how I'm reading it.

You also indicated that speed was inconsistent in his case against you. His case and your response are below. I don't understand what you are saying is inconsistent. You deny that you would have killed sable, and as you point out that's wifom. You say the actually tell is bullshit because you were not trying to discredit me or DDL but you admitted elsewhere in the game that "The point is to figure out if you believe the things you’re saying." That sure looks like you were trying to discredit me.

So please, spell our for me why his case on you is inconsistent. I just don't understand that word in the context of his case.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:08 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:22 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:00 pm It’s probably just Speed anyway. He admitted my behavior isn’t like SHP but his case is that I’m bussing just like SHP.

Reasons to scumread Jack:

-Juliets kill (jack is like alternate universe me, and I'd have done that [yes I know I might get lynched for saying this])
-'Actually' tell
-Full DDL suspicion doesn't come until the day lingers on the two of them for a long time
-Most of the rest of the game is cleared on either not knowing the number of scum or having a plausible role or just being sexy like Nova

The case has never been that you're bussing like SHP.
Just that you're bussing.

That said, I'm at like 45% confidence, and it looks likely that D2 and D3 will be speed and jack lynches in some order. Maybe if we lynch you first the game will end??

-Sabie kill, you mean? This is wifom but I wouldn’t have killed Sabie. I’d probably have killed Luna. She kept trying to lynch me in Flags even after I was mechanically confirmed. DDL’s treatment of her makes her look taf. She’s never going to give me credit for bussing DDL. Or maybe Leetic, who looked good after the DDL lynch and hinted PR.

But thanks for admitting you would kill Sabie as mafia.

-Actually tell is bullshit because the idea is that I was trying to discredit DDL and Juliets as fake or ridiculous...but you’re also saying I’m buddies with DDL.

A refresher on the nonsense you’re throwing at the wall, hoping it will stick. Btw, this came after both Leetic and I had pointed out DDL’s suspicion of me was fake and I was the counterwagon to the DDL lynch.

Spoiler: show

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:55 am

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:40 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:37 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:59 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:27 am Considering voting Jack here for the "Actually" tell.

Did you have something to say about that?

Tell me about this tell. It seems pretty random. Like the "interesting" tell that got pinned on myself onetime when I was town.

Disclaimer: I have never heard of the "Actually" tell. I made it up. That said, let's take a look.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:39 pm You (or Juliets) actually think I scumread Mac from one post?

What is the purpose of this word in the sentence? Without 'actually' in there, the sentence reads:
"You or Juliets think I scumread Mac from one post?" which is a question.

Putting in "actually" turns this question into an attack on their alignment or reasoning, one of the two. It insinuates that either DDL/Juliets don't believe what they are saying (therefore scum)... or they do, and that it's ridiculous. Painting their inquiry as scummy or ridiculous is an aggressive, defensive measure that pushes them to back off and shuts down the line of inquiry without actually answering their query.

In short, it's an unnecessary word that comes from a possibly-bad and blustery perspective. I see this post and hear a ten-year-old Overwatch player yelling into the microphone "You actually think this is my main account? You're seriously stupid if you think this Silver account is my main account. I'm actually ranked Diamond."

-This is false. I laid out my case on page 3. I voted second for DDL. My case came 28 posts after DDL voted for me and 14 posts after the first DDL vote from Leetic. There was no “lingering.”

-Okay. Also a reason to suspect you.

-But it is. It’s all over the thread, especially from you.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:27 pm I was your first scumread in SHP. Your second post in that game was discrediting a (flimsy) townread of me.

I have no doubts that you would cut DDL's throat and toss his corpse under the bus if things started looking even slightly bad.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:24 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:19 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:18 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:15 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:33 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:29 am Acts like I’m going to kill him for suspecting me makes it look like he knows I’m town.

Explain this.

Cause why would I kill you if I was scum? You look worse than I do. I’d need to mislynch you.

First off I take offense to that. You look plenty bad.

Secondly I still don't know how that makes me look like I know you're town.

Tell me why DDL was lynched.

Because you distanced from him early like you do in every game and then LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE happened all day. Which you complained about. It left you and DDL as the only remaining points of interest.

I was a scummate of yours in SHP. I'm not giving you any credit for this lynch.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:39 pm @sabie12 I could see DDL and Jack as teammates. Jack is super good at bussing for town cred after all.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:54 am @juliets

But why am I bad? What have I done to make you suspect me?

Here is my counterargument to Speed's case where I point out that it is dishonest/wrong.

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 04#p527377

Jack, thanks, I have to run out for a little while but I will address your questions and your post when I return. It will only be a couple of hours, maybe less.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:14 am

juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:09 am Development of the DDL read:

9:57 pm March 30 -

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm DDL looks like he's being careful. But maybe that's because he's only posted once.

9:57 pm March 30 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm Iffy about DDL's entrance. Calculated ice breaker using the theme and highjacking the write-up. Something's fishy about it.

Linki - high five!

12:24 pm March 31 -

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:24 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm Iffy about DDL's entrance. Calculated ice breaker using the theme and highjacking the write-up. Something's fishy about it.

Linki - high five!

Agreed.

3:02 pm March 31 - DDL's case against Jack re: random voting

7:20 pm March 31 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:20 pm Jack and DDL's argument has to be the most contrived thing I've seen in a while

7:24 pm March 31 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:24 pm Hot take,

DDL and Jack are bad together.

8:22 pm March 31 -

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:22 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:47 pm What is rvs?

Random voting stage.

Random voting, semi random voting, joke voting, reaction voting and following the most minor suspicions until these things generate enough content to actually do real hunting.

Eh no I hate this argument.

Yeah I know rvs is a thing, despite not knowing the term before.

Votes are never truly random though, we always make them for a reason, however shallow it may be.

You gave no reason, and when I asked for one, you replied with the old "day 1 is useless why are you asking me to do work" rethoric.

If you just made a joke vote and explained it, or if you made a vote for a shallow reason, it would be fine, but it feels like you are going out of your way to be obstructive. This isn't civilian logic.

I'm not so sure I like this, I've seen many people call others out for early game joke votes and they turn out scum a surprising amount of time. [VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

7:37 am April 1 -

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:24 pm Hot take,

DDL and Jack are bad together.

Oh shit it’s SHP all over again. Better bus DDL.

But seriously this post below? It comes from a wolf.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:47 pm What is rvs?

Random voting stage.

Random voting, semi random voting, joke voting, reaction voting and following the most minor suspicions until these things generate enough content to actually do real hunting.

Eh no I hate this argument.

Yeah I know rvs is a thing, despite not knowing the term before.

Votes are never truly random though, we always make them for a reason, however shallow it may be.

You gave no reason, and when I asked for one, you replied with the old "day 1 is useless why are you asking me to do work" rethoric.

If you just made a joke vote and explained it, or if you made a vote for a shallow reason, it would be fine, but it feels like you are going out of your way to be obstructive. This isn't civilian logic.

Leetic is right. This is a bad reason to vote that is typical of wolves.

Townies do vote players they don’t actually suspect in rvs. Townies don’t vote players with intent to lynch for doing so. I’ve never seen DDL hate on early semirandom voting with this kind of certainty before. He’s faking, here.

Ftr, my vote on Mac was not random but also I didn’t scumread him. Out of the players who had posted at the time, I had (however flimsy) some reason to townread most of them but no reason to townread Mac. So I voted there to see what would happen and what happened was DDL got caught being scummy.

I never said D1 was useless.

[VOTE: DDL] aubergine

So, I do agree that Jack came in after the suspicion of DDL was established by nova and leetic (and even Luna had a post in there) which means the thing I gave him credit for, the DDL case, was not correct.

I have read through speed and I will do so again today because I didn't see much to push him into my good or bad reads but at this point I think Jack looks worse so voting now [VOTE: Jack] aubergine.

What about this makes me bad?

Do you not see the logical inconsistencies in Speed's case against me?

IE actually tell only working if DDL was town?

Jack I had said that your DDL case was a point in your favor but as nova pointed out you came late to the case, DDL was already a baddie read. In my mind you were the first to have really jumped on him - I was wrong so that negates the positive trait I saw.

I'll look back and see if I can find a post where you pointed out the logical inconsistencies in speed's case. I don't remember the post but I might have skimmed over it. If there isn't a post of that nature I'm asking you to point those inconsistencies out.

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:13 am lynch goes down today and I'm having second thoughts. What makes Jack scum instead of Speed?

Luna, could you share with me what you are seeing in speed's case that makes him bad or worse than Jack? I give Jack the edge mostly because he seems to be taking credit for DDL when in reality, he only jumped on it after others (including you) brought up the suspicion according to my reading of how the DDL suspicion developed (my earlier post). But I'm still listening to other cases.

Development of the DDL read:

9:57 pm March 30 -

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm DDL looks like he's being careful. But maybe that's because he's only posted once.

9:57 pm March 30 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm Iffy about DDL's entrance. Calculated ice breaker using the theme and highjacking the write-up. Something's fishy about it.

Linki - high five!

12:24 pm March 31 -

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 12:24 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:57 pm Iffy about DDL's entrance. Calculated ice breaker using the theme and highjacking the write-up. Something's fishy about it.

Linki - high five!

Agreed.

3:02 pm March 31 - DDL's case against Jack re: random voting

7:20 pm March 31 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:20 pm Jack and DDL's argument has to be the most contrived thing I've seen in a while

7:24 pm March 31 -

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:24 pm Hot take,

DDL and Jack are bad together.

8:22 pm March 31 -

leetic wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:22 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:47 pm What is rvs?

Random voting stage.

Random voting, semi random voting, joke voting, reaction voting and following the most minor suspicions until these things generate enough content to actually do real hunting.

Eh no I hate this argument.

Yeah I know rvs is a thing, despite not knowing the term before.

Votes are never truly random though, we always make them for a reason, however shallow it may be.

You gave no reason, and when I asked for one, you replied with the old "day 1 is useless why are you asking me to do work" rethoric.

If you just made a joke vote and explained it, or if you made a vote for a shallow reason, it would be fine, but it feels like you are going out of your way to be obstructive. This isn't civilian logic.

I'm not so sure I like this, I've seen many people call others out for early game joke votes and they turn out scum a surprising amount of time. [VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

7:37 am April 1 -

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:37 am

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:24 pm Hot take,

DDL and Jack are bad together.

Oh shit it’s SHP all over again. Better bus DDL.

But seriously this post below? It comes from a wolf.

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:02 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:54 pm

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:47 pm What is rvs?

Random voting stage.

Random voting, semi random voting, joke voting, reaction voting and following the most minor suspicions until these things generate enough content to actually do real hunting.

Eh no I hate this argument.

Yeah I know rvs is a thing, despite not knowing the term before.

Votes are never truly random though, we always make them for a reason, however shallow it may be.

You gave no reason, and when I asked for one, you replied with the old "day 1 is useless why are you asking me to do work" rethoric.

If you just made a joke vote and explained it, or if you made a vote for a shallow reason, it would be fine, but it feels like you are going out of your way to be obstructive. This isn't civilian logic.

Leetic is right. This is a bad reason to vote that is typical of wolves.

Townies do vote players they don’t actually suspect in rvs. Townies don’t vote players with intent to lynch for doing so. I’ve never seen DDL hate on early semirandom voting with this kind of certainty before. He’s faking, here.

Ftr, my vote on Mac was not random but also I didn’t scumread him. Out of the players who had posted at the time, I had (however flimsy) some reason to townread most of them but no reason to townread Mac. So I voted there to see what would happen and what happened was DDL got caught being scummy.

I never said D1 was useless.

[VOTE: DDL] aubergine

So, I do agree that Jack came in after the suspicion of DDL was established by nova and leetic (and even Luna had a post in there) which means the thing I gave him credit for, the DDL case, was not correct.

I have read through speed and I will do so again today because I didn't see much to push him into my good or bad reads but at this point I think Jack looks worse so voting now [VOTE: Jack] aubergine.

I'll look at how the leetic/Jack DDL suspicion played out in the thread [mention]novaselinenever[/mention] tomorrow morning when I look at speed.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:23 pm Jack didn't really have a DDL's case until very late. He highjacked Leetic's remark and DDL's own suspicion of him.

DDL was an already popular baddie read.

ohhhhh I didn't think to compare the time lines when I looked at those two in isolation.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:04 pm Juliets, where are you at currently?

I haven't re-read speed so I need to see if there's anything there that would make me say he's town. (I will read him in the morning). With Jack, I see the DDL case argument but I'm concerned that he might have bussed given he's done it before early in a game. Not voting Mac today because we can see whether he's telling the truth after night two. I'm giving leetic the benefit of the doubt this round because if he is who he says he could be important to us tonight. I'm not voting you and Luna as stated previously.

tl;dr - for me it's between speed and Jack

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:23 pm Jailer.

Meh, I dunno.

Didn't Leetic claim AFTER the Sabie kill? Jackofhearts2005 I completely misinterpreted your post.

Leetic hinted at a power role in the night but didn't outright claim until the next day.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:02 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:57 pm

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:18 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:53 pm I think I'm going to add leetic to my clear list. I guess he could be bad and therefore knows luna is good therefore knows he can clear her but just as my logic went with Mac, it's risky to claim an ability that you don't have.

The two claims are nothing alike. You should read Community Leetic.

Ok, Community Mafia was a different leetic. He did not beat around the bush much before claiming like he did here. What do you think about his response to you that he was in more danger in that game and that's why his claim was quicker?

@speedchuck lol, I did not notice those names were in alpha order. I thought you were giving a reads list. To your point in the post, I did go back and look at sable and just can't find a reason from what she said that she was nk'd. I don't know what to make of it.

It's dishonest. The point against him is that Community Leetic showed reservation in claiming and didn't really consider it until it was necessary, here he's hinting at being a power role during the night without being asked to do so at all. He put a target on his back, then he stalled the claiming using the excuse "to not get killed" when what he did already managed that.

To top it all off, he hinted at his role to get a target for his action but ended up going with someone that wasn't suggested.

Oh ok, I didn't think he showed as much reservation in Community as you who was playing the game in real time with him. But you're right, he did let out that hint in this game at night when it wasn't necessary and then stalled saying he didn't want to be killed which is odd. And I appreciate your pointing out the Luna pick as being wonky. I didn't really focus on that at all. So, I'm not feeling as good about leetic as I was before.

linki

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:18 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:53 pm I think I'm going to add leetic to my clear list. I guess he could be bad and therefore knows luna is good therefore knows he can clear her but just as my logic went with Mac, it's risky to claim an ability that you don't have.

The two claims are nothing alike. You should read Community Leetic.

Ok, Community Mafia was a different leetic. He did not beat around the bush much before claiming like he did here. What do you think about his response to you that he was in more danger in that game and that's why his claim was quicker?

[mention]speedchuck[/mention] lol, I did not notice those names were in alpha order. I thought you were giving a reads list. To your point in the post, I did go back and look at sable and just can't find a reason from what she said that she was nk'd. I don't know what to make of it.

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:18 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:53 pm I think I'm going to add leetic to my clear list. I guess he could be bad and therefore knows luna is good therefore knows he can clear her but just as my logic went with Mac, it's risky to claim an ability that you don't have.

The two claims are nothing alike. You should read Community Leetic.

Ok nova I will do that.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:52 pm Jackofhearts2005
juliets
leetic
Lunalee
Macdougall
novaselinever
speedchuck

Things we haven't looked at for everyone:
Read based on interactions with DDL
Read based on Sabie nightkill analysis

I'm mostly curious what you think anyone (besides Mac) has to gain from specifically killing Sabie?

speed, why is leetic so high on your list? I must have missed it in my read.

I think I'm going to add leetic to my clear list. I guess he could be bad and therefore knows luna is good therefore knows he can clear her but just as my logic went with Mac, it's risky to claim an ability that you don't have.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:29 am <snip>

Case Juliets: Quotes the post immediately following the DDL case but when Nova basically restates the DDL case, acts like this is new information. Votes DDL after momentum has turned so this comes across as fake.

Trust fall Juliets: Going to find a specific game where DDL did something that makes him look scummy here is not effort I expect to see from a goon that decides to bus late in the day.

Jack, I don't know how to explain it other than to tell you nova's to-the-point declarative style:

novaselinenever wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:50 pm
His read on Jack is fake. His gripe with the Mac vote and the argument that followed are contrived.

coupled with the fact that I had just found a random vote crystalized the problem with DDL. The fact that I had begun to trust nova and he was so emphatic also helped me over the edge.

Going to read back some now.

I don't know what to think of Mac, I need to think through whether it really makes sense that he would lie about this.

I got side tracked yesterday from re-reading some people but I will do it today after I get home from work. I feel good about nova and pretty good about Luna going in so I'll put them last on the list.

I'll be gone to work again until this afternoon sometime.

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:31 pm

juliets wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:28 pm

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:23 pm Taking out Luna and Mac, that would leave juliets as our most suspicious user, so [VOTE: juliets] aubergine

RIP sable, I don't get why it was you.

Why am I the most suspicious? And what do you mean by "user"?

The voting patterns make the three of you look the worst. Mac has a claim going for him (which needs to be verified, though), I have evidence in Lunalee's favor, so that leaves you. "User" is just how I refer to people, might just be something I carried from Bulba.

Oh ok, just a terminology difference.

On the vote issue though, what didn't you like about my vote? Mac voted speed, Luna voted Jack, I voted DDL. I changed my vote from Jack late in the process, is that what bothers you?

leetic wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:23 pm Taking out Luna and Mac, that would leave juliets as our most suspicious user, so [VOTE: juliets] aubergine

RIP sable, I don't get why it was you.

Why am I the most suspicious? And what do you mean by "user"?

Thank you speed. I don't know how you did them so fast.