The Syndicate

Marmot wrote:

bea wrote:I've come to try to play as close to the same regardless of alignment. That's my goal. When I play there is only bea. Not bad bea or civ bea. I think newt and lc are exceptionally good at that sort of play where you want to trust them. You hope you can. But you are never quite 100 percent sure.

I know I have a long way to go. But you know, reducing the tells ect. But that is the goal.

If I didn't have a role that I could easily hint at and that wasn't obviously civilian, I probably would have been lynched this game. I don't know if I have the meta attachments that some players do. I was just fortunate to have that as a backup plan.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Having the viewed the game and the mafia BTSC discussion from a neutral perspective, these are my thoughts on the POE debate:

~ The method itself was not an issue to criticize, as it clearly worked well for the civilians. It has actually been very positive in a number of recent games. *directs smug expression upon the critics*

~ I can understand on some level, however, why it peeved the mafia team. The method itself was fine, but the means by which some of the civilians cleared each other (spousal night kill assumptions, fierce/personal emotional appeals, signature bets, etc) aren't exactly the sort of purely game-relevant indicators that a hypothetically neutral Mafia platform would be built upon -- it'd work based upon the content of posts relative solely to the game at hand and nothing but the game at hand. The problem with this is self-evident: it's a fantasy world. I have never seen a Mafia community anywhere, in person or on a message board, that fits within that idealistic frame. Instead, we all play with people we know, and the effects of that are going to be seen in games. That's just how it is, and I don't think that's something to frown upon. We play as friends, and sometimes that opens doors to unique angles for making reads.

~ There are two obvious negatives that I can identify though for civilians operating this way (crediting and identifying one another based upon unique and marginally relevant appeals or tells):
~~~ 1.) Eventually, someone is going to take advantage of this mindset as a non-civilian and make a number of people look silly.
~~~ 2.) When civilians come to rely too much upon these sorts of tells to progress their POE perspectives, they make a significant sacrifice to their own ability to play the game as anything but civilians. If a player struggles to attain civilian trust without special appeals or tells of this nature, it exposes them when they don't have the proper framework in their roles or mindsets (i.e. when they're mafia-aligned) to meet that criteria. They becomes victims of their own game -- isolated by the POE of other civilians who don't see the tells they're looking for. The only way around this, other than revamping the civilian approach, is to make concessions as a baddie which might not feel morally permissible (and in my opinion, fierce emotional appeals as a baddie are sometimes outright unsportsmanlike). A player is left deciding whether to compromise their values or to compromise their chances to win the game.

bea wrote:oh - as far as "so and so would never do that as a baddie." - let me say it here and loud and proud.
IF I flip mafia I will do what I need to do to keep my advantage. There is no line I won't cross. As far as I can remember, I WAS THE ONE WHO STARTED THE SIG BETS.
And yes, if I'm bad and you belive for one second that I would never take a bet I can't loose, just that once I will fall on that granade. I will still use this when I'm civ.

IF you think I won't use the "if you lie to me now, I can never trust you again" and I'm mafia, I'm so going to stake my mafia rep on it. I will still use this when I am civ.

I WILL ALWAYS NOT HAVE THE TIME TO DEDICATE TO ANY GAME I PLAY. I WILL FOREVER BE AN EASY LYNCH AS AN UNINVOLVED CIV AND A EASY SLIDE AS A BADDIE.

Lots of peeps would have -pre this game - say that I wouldn't pull the trigger on SVS and that's a HARD trigger for me to pull. But in the end, the TEAM'S needs outweigh my personal needs. So I pulled the fucking trigger.

I was also waiting to use that exact thing against BR. Cuz that day will come.

In the end, the *very* thing that kept me last baddie hidden was the thing that - for my baddie team, I felt the most umbrage against.

When quinn got lynched it was a) LC luck - but when he first came under the firing line it was cuz "I trust everone else's meta and you are the only one left." That's the danger of POE. It worked for quinn - but you lynched ninjacoltraine twice both times a civ because of it. You lynched wigly twice - both times civ because of it.

I prolly could have skated - how many more cycles had sorsha not nked me? because of it?

Meta is kinda bollucks. If I'm a baddie - even if I know I can only do it once - Imma still do it that one time. Just cuz I can.

Golden wrote:Juliets, we should team up and post an analysis of Quins subpar baddie game for future reference.