The Syndicate

How is that me speaking for Juliets, exactly?

MacDougall wrote:Okay I will explain what has pinged me after I finish work. I don't want to do you wrong if it turns out to be nothing so I want to make sure I am seeing what I thought I was seeing.

MacDougall wrote:Mate you said you were going to give us a juliets analysis days ago. You first. But you won't because she's your teammate. That's okay. You've got everyone fooled with your supertown bs. Good work DH. You deserve to win.

Linki: Sorry sorsha it's 6.35am and I have to go to work. Otherwise I would. But if you want to take a look at ISOs you will see plenty of evidence of juliets and DH being teammates.

Start with how every time DH was asked about juliets, every single time, he dodges it with "yeah she bad I'll read her later" type stuff or outright ignores it (like he just did when I asked him).

The evidence is there. I unfortunately haven't had the time to gather it.

inb4 DH posts this smiley

Sorsha wrote:Oh shit. Where's the popcorn eating smilie??? Someone make me some popcorn, DH and Mac are about to throw down!!!!

Man I can't wait to lynch you.

MacDougall wrote:You have a couple of hours DH how bout you give us that juliets read you were going to do but didn't because she's your teammate?

How about that evidence you were going to present.

Couple hours left. Everyone voting for Motel Room means everyone is comfortable with his lynch which means he's probably not on anyones team.

Is it time for a Mac Attack?

lol. OK, may want to switch to someone else with me FZ.

Draconus wrote:
FZ. wrote:
Draconus wrote:
FZ. wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:ATTN FZ: I'd support a Mac or Motel Room vote and since you said you'd follow my vote I'd like your input.
I said I will, and I will. I think I'd rather lynch motel room because he's playing exactly like Wilgy but even worse in terms of giving a damn only when his name is mentioned. Mac has his moments.

Do you think my worries about Matt are just paranoia?
Yeah, I don't like how long Motel has survived with the way he has been playing. THAT makes me paranoid.
And fwiw, FZ, I don't think it's paranoia. I think there's some merit to that suspicion, like I said.

Linki: Exactly.
What do you think of everyone suspicious of you?

Thanks for the answer about Matt, Drac and DH. Did you read his reply to my case? What did you think of it?
You know, I didn't read through it all earlier, but it sounded genuine to me. He offered legit, reasonable responses showing that the Pet Sounds meta wasn't completely reliable. I'm not a huge fan of the huge no u, though. Don't know what to make of that part.

Have you gone from parroting my votes to literally parroting me

Or we could all self vote and call it a game.

FZ. wrote:
Draconus wrote:
FZ. wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:ATTN FZ: I'd support a Mac or Motel Room vote and since you said you'd follow my vote I'd like your input.
I said I will, and I will. I think I'd rather lynch motel room because he's playing exactly like Wilgy but even worse in terms of giving a damn only when his name is mentioned. Mac has his moments.

Do you think my worries about Matt are just paranoia?
Yeah, I don't like how long Motel has survived with the way he has been playing. THAT makes me paranoid.
And fwiw, FZ, I don't think it's paranoia. I think there's some merit to that suspicion, like I said.

Linki: Exactly.
What do you think of everyone suspicious of you?

Thanks for the answer about Matt, Drac and DH. Did you read his reply to my case? What did you think of it?

I thought it was a measured, reasonable response apart from the thinly veiled no-uing.

I think Matt's tunneling of MM gives him an easy excuse not to engage other suspects, and it makes his vote record easy to fudge up.

FZ. wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:ATTN FZ: I'd support a Mac or Motel Room vote and since you said you'd follow my vote I'd like your input.
I said I will, and I will. I think I'd rather lynch motel room because he's playing exactly like Wilgy but even worse in terms of giving a damn only when his name is mentioned. Mac has his moments.

Do you think my worries about Matt are just paranoia?

No i don't.

ATTN FZ: I'd support a Mac or Motel Room vote and since you said you'd follow my vote I'd like your input.

Dat spread ass vote tho.

Sorsha wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Sorsha wrote:DH- You are straight up cray-cray... you keep using the fact that players change their minds/flip flop on players as evidence that they are bad. That's just not true, how often is there ever 100% evidence that someone is bad? It's normal for someone to have doubts about players. Especially in this game where almost all we have done is lynch civs. Obviously our thinking has been wrong. A lot. So the fact that someone is changing their mind, or considering the opposite side of what they said earlier is not unusual.
If someone's thought process in their change of basis requires a microscope and a bottle of whiskey to see, then I think their might be something wrong.
What does this sentence even say? Please revise.

He's saying if the steps a person takes to go from one conclusion to the next are sketchy, their conclusions are sketchy.

Sorsha wrote:DH- You are straight up cray-cray... you keep using the fact that players change their minds/flip flop on players as evidence that they are bad. That's just not true, how often is there ever 100% evidence that someone is bad? It's normal for someone to have doubts about players. Especially in this game where almost all we have done is lynch civs. Obviously our thinking has been wrong. A lot. So the fact that someone is changing their mind, or considering the opposite side of what they said earlier is not unusual.

I mean, I guess I get what you're saying. Evolving thoughts are different than conflicting thoughts though.

Also, you're crazy bad. Like, slam-dunk.

MacDougall wrote:Crazy speculative theory doesn't override my actual opinion. I want to eliminate my doubt DH. I think since you have earned all this cred of the Wilgy lynch it's important that we put you under fire to see if you deserve it.

Go for it.

MacDougall wrote:Draconus is still scum for all the reasons he was scum when I already said he was less the possibility he's on Team Wilgy.

Bea flipping from Drac to Wilgy for barely any reason seemed like an "okay fuck you it won't work anyway" type vote.

FZ voting for Draconus over Wilgy, again her vote doesn't make sense in light of her previous play.

I would go as far as to say the only Drac vote that wasn't haphazardly placed there is mine. My vote is the least Wilgy savey on the wagon. I have a case on Draconus and I had been defending Wilgy, if there's something positive to be said for my behaviour around that it's that it was consistent.

I wouldn't argue to lynching any of the aforementioned. The only player right now who I'm civ reading is DH. I could see a case against everyone else.

Does a Wilgy, Lorab, Bea + FZ team make sense?

MacDougall wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Her and Drac need a good look over.

DharmaHelper wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
juliets wrote:Since its slow DH why don't you explain to me why you think I'm bad.
Its mostly vibes really. Like Rico says, a lot of your activity has been agreeing with X case and voting for X case, not really ruffling too many feathers or getting into the mud. Admittedly my energy has been put elsewhere so I'd have to really read you over to finalize my thoughts.
This post =/= "good look over" DH.

I didn't say it was. You asked for my thoughts. There they are. Today was spent looking for Wilgy's teammates at Rico's behest. I can't do everything for you.

Sorsha wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Sorsha wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.
Why don't you want to vote Draco?
Cuz you want to.
I want to lynch motel room too

If only you were on the poll

DharmaHelper wrote:
juliets wrote:Since its slow DH why don't you explain to me why you think I'm bad.
Its mostly vibes really. Like Rico says, a lot of your activity has been agreeing with X case and voting for X case, not really ruffling too many feathers or getting into the mud. Admittedly my energy has been put elsewhere so I'd have to really read you over to finalize my thoughts.

MacDougall wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.
How bout juliets? What do you think about her?

Already said.

Sorsha wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.
Why don't you want to vote Draco?

Cuz you want to.

Sorsha wrote:
MacDougall wrote:DH my staunch defender and only friend has turned his back on me at the last. The impending darkness overwhelms me. I know that I deserve it, for I sinned by allowing a murderer to live and even defended him. Is being wrong a sin worthy of the gallows? Perhaps it depends on the outcome of incorrectness. Do we not all folly from time to time though? Do all our follies result in the continued survival of a murderer? No.
Preach on brotha, I hear ya.

Wow! Seriously? I trusted you andblah blah blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Actually fuck it FZ said she was going to follow my vote so I'm going Motel Room.

Wilgy said he was wrong too.

MacDougall wrote:You literally said that you read my play as civ after the lynch, now you are using it as a justification for a vote.

My pushing of Metalmarsh as a candidate makes more sense than anything I've said so far, maybe I'm taking heat from you for being abruptly sensible.

Uh I've also been spending a good part of this phase re-reading you and pointing out how you could possibly be bad. D'ya wanna vote bea instead?

Also you hella defended Dr Wilgy.

MacDougall wrote:DH explain your vote or feel my wrath.

You're pushing to lynch an independent player, and Sorsha moved her vote off Motel Room.

Sorsha wrote:What about Draco? He quieted down after coming under suspicion now...

Let's lynch Draco today and mm tomorrow

Stop it you're so bad you're getting lynched as soon as you're on the poll lmao

Sorsha wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:
Sorsha wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Anybody curious why Sorsha seems to think being off the poll means she can not contribute anything to the discussion?
You're convinced I'm bad so why would anything I have to say mean anything to you?

I could be convinced to vote for almost anyone at this point. Draco and motel being higher on the list... I'm almost inclined to follow matts vote for mm but I'm not sure I trust Matt either. Matt could be right about the Dom/mm thing and just be on the opposite team though. I still think Mac is civ, despite his defense of wilgy, although I think it's kinda weird how easy Mac has been on Matt this game.
Avoiding offering legitimate thoughts/suspicions so as not to tip your hat as to who your (additional) teammates are. Confirmed.
No actually I wasn't around because I was working third shift last night and sleeping today. I don't have all the time in the world to be responding to each post in this thread 24 hours a day like some people do.

All you did in this post was read my first line and skip the rest.

Nope, I read the whole post.

To recap:

- You could be convinced to vote for anyone. Anyone.
- Draco and Motel (two of the most popular opinions) are high on your list. Cool.
- You wanna follow Matt's lead, but you also think Matt Might be bad
- You think Mac is civ, but you also think its weird he's gone easy on Matt.

Literally everyone you bring up, you cover both bases.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
Ricochet wrote:MM, if you're not a baddie, you are spoonfeeding the mafia reasons to push for your wagon toDay. Reconfigure your strategy.
GTFO. Juliets' reasoning is flawed no matter how you look at it.

There's also this thing where juliets is still alive while being a "confirmed civ" for 5 days while players like nijuukyugou are dead.

You wanna put the nail in JC's coffin then the burden of proof is on you buddy.

Sorsha wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Anybody curious why Sorsha seems to think being off the poll means she can not contribute anything to the discussion?
You're convinced I'm bad so why would anything I have to say mean anything to you?

I could be convinced to vote for almost anyone at this point. Draco and motel being higher on the list... I'm almost inclined to follow matts vote for mm but I'm not sure I trust Matt either. Matt could be right about the Dom/mm thing and just be on the opposite team though. I still think Mac is civ, despite his defense of wilgy, although I think it's kinda weird how easy Mac has been on Matt this game.

Avoiding offering legitimate thoughts/suspicions so as not to tip your hat as to who your (additional) teammates are. Confirmed.

Would it not be the greatest thing of all time if LC had btsc with Wilgy AND one of his teammates. Vouch city.

I reeeally need to see this tricks after the game.

Ricochet wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:@Rico - Independent roles by definition are factionless.

Also, bea initially voted for Draco, but once she came under pressure by Rico and myself she switched to Dr Wilgy.

That looks pretty dern sketch.

Linki w/ TH Bah
I agree that her jumping in with the Wilgy is LC-certified pitch, despite me never asking her in the first place, coupled with her completely wishy-washy, flippy-floopy D8 vote doesn't speak well for her. But would she be Wilgy teamie or Wilgy non-teamie, in this case?

If she knew Wilgy would survive the lynch and had reservations about how a civ Draco flip would look for her given her vote and her history of claiming Draco is civ, I could see her reflexively changing her vote to Dr Wilgy in order to save face. Bet your ass she knows I wouldn't have given up on Wilgy till he got lynched and I think she'd know better than to go down with that ship.

What I'm seeing is a Wilgy/Sorsha/bea Trio makes more sense than Mac/Wlgy/Sorsha but that's just me.

And by "once she came under pressure" I mean immediately after Rico questioned her and I called out a Wilgy save. Immediately after.

@Rico - Independent roles by definition are factionless.

Also, bea initially voted for Draco, but once she came under pressure by Rico and myself she switched to Dr Wilgy.

That looks pretty dern sketch.

Linki w/ TH Bah

If, by some cosmic miracle, Sorsha is not Wilgy's teammate, and Mac is Wilgy's teammate, he would know that lynching Sorsha first kills the Wilgy case in it's crib. But the thing is I think Sorsha is Wilgy's teammate so I dunno what to make of Mac going after her.

Still haven't gotten to the part where bea votes Dr Wilgy in my catch up.

In this phase of my read-up Mac and Bea are the main "LC trusted Wilgy" pushers.

Mac makes sense as Wilgy's teammate because he's been riding on that jock ever since Wilgy came under fire. Only hitch is his interactions with Sorsha, if Sorsha is also on Wilgy's team (which, if I have to explain that for the five millionth time I might put a gun in my mouth)

Bea is interesting because she thought Wilgy was good during the Boom flip but ends up voting for him in Draco vs. Wilgy. I still haven't re-read that phase yet, but knowing Dr Wilgy had a save up his sleeve, would they be willing to take the hit this close to end game? Or would Wilgy's team prefer to keep that save in case they needed it during the night?

Things to think about I guess.

Spoiler: show

MacDougall wrote:
Ricochet wrote:me tired IRL + Mac posting in waves =

(sorry for the grumps)
yeild. Don't lynch Wilgy. magic trusted him. optimates changing Typhoony traitor to Peter.

bea wrote:
FZ. wrote:This is a bad day for me, isn't it? I'm sorry, not in the mood to play today at all, am I?

DH, who was bad in Death Note?

MM, isn't it the easiest thing to claim indy? No one needs you dead, am I correct? Do you realize how fishy that sounds?

Bea, weren't you the one encouraging people to fight? Why didn't you post anything other than that one post which didn't really say anything?
Do you think I'm as good at the questions game as you? Do you think I gave up 7 hours of my day off for work?

Does MM, maybe matt, and probably boom look worse to me than wigly does?

bea wrote:
FZ. wrote:Is it possible that at least one of Mac and Bea did the save LC operation to look better? Did I trust Bea all game? Is she disappointing me? Did she say she was going to be for LC what I was for JJJ? Was it genuine or was she trying to look very civvie like?

linki, rico: Wouldn't you at least expect him to not miss a vote when he found out a sure baddie? That clear possibly?
I think that if he checked him and found out he's indy, he wouldn't say he doesn't trust him when he says he's an indy, don't I?
Is bea sad she dissapoints fz? Is she trying as hard as she can?

Maybe outside of the boom, marshy, maybe matt trio, she feels less sure of Jc, ninja, and motel room? Maybe she does agree that wigly has contributed at least more than motel room?

Maybe she offers that the last 3 on her list are more based in she doesn't have an opinion on them, which this late in the game, bugs her for sure but isn't much to build a case on?

bea wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Bea vote Marsh
Ok? maybe I was leaning there anyway? I don't think wigly is bad either?

bea wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote:Is Wigly srsly being saved right now? Can we go one lynch without fucking ourselves raw?
Can you think of any reason at all that bea and mac might have reason to believe that wigly is a civ?

MacDougall wrote:LC trusted Wilgy

MacDougall wrote:RIP Boomslang.

I still don't think Wilgy is bad.

MacDougall wrote:LC trusted obstetrics. Do not lynch him.

Is this the first instance of "LC trusted Wilgy"?

Anybody curious why Sorsha seems to think being off the poll means she can not contribute anything to the discussion?

Sorsha wrote:I'm not pulling quotes because I'm on my phone and it's too difficult to multi-quote.

A comment Dom made on day 5 about getting votes looks like he probably took the eye deal, at the latest, on night 4. On day 4 he had votes from blooper and wilgy so my first inclination would be that he checked one of them. Civ Dom is a fairly No U-y type of player so that would make sense. He didn't seem to really hound either like I'd expect if he got a baddie read back for either, but he also didn't drop suspicion of either of them. He called blooper's vote for him shifty but didn't put her on his list so maybe he did check her but didn't want to paint a target on her? Day 5 was also when he started to buddy up to LC also so maybe that was his check. On day 5 he voted for Tranq so I think whoever he checked on night 4 didn't come back as a baddie.

To be continued sometime today...

Remember this post?

Lol. Fuck you night polls.

Also in my reading back over things, I LOLed when I re-read how MM got on my jock for not making a case on folks. Ask and you shall receive I guess. RIPSYWB Wilgy and Sorsha

Matt wrote:Lulz. On the day Wilgy wasn't lynched, I went out of my way to vote for his top opponent? Why not just vote Wilgy for the cred if I knew he had a save?

Also, on that first poll, you can clearly see I voted for MM before Wilgy had any votes whatsoever.

Are you seriously trying to paint me as bad right now?

Again, even with Wilgy's flip, I don't think Sorsha is bad either. You can take that to the bank.

That's just raw poll data looking at who didn't vote Wilgy both times he was up for lynch.

Also seeing that now I'm curious what the context was for FZ to vote Wilgy in the first lynch and Draco in the second.

Rico, I'm in the process of combing through the leads on Wilgy's teammates but I thought I'd post some raw vote data for everyone to take a look at.

Boomslang
4
Draconus (11), Sorsha (19), DrWilgy (20), Metalmarsh89 (21)

Dr. Wilgy
4
FZ. (12), DharmaHelper (14), nijuukyugou (17), Boomslang (18)
19%

Metalmarsh
4
Matt (8), MacDougall (13), bea (15), motel room (16)

Dr. Wilgy
6
DharmaHelper (8), Metalmarsh89 (9), Draconus (10), juliets (11), motel room (14), bea (18)
33%

Draconus
5
MacDougall (3), DrWilgy (5), Sorsha (13), Matt (16), FZ. (17)
28%

Meant to be a period

Ricochet wrote:
DharmaHelper wrote: I guess this is what you meant. In all seriousness I get the head-bashing feeling you must have regarding getting people to see the case on MM. FWIW, the pitfall of relying on this type of evidence (Meta, pseudo-info dumps) is that your interpretation of the events could be skewed. Recall if you will the case of FZ and Epignosis in Death Note, wherein after Russ flipped as civ, Epi used his flip and his pressuring of FZ to call FZ bad when she wasn't.

What I think is that MM is probably not Sorsha/Wilgy's teammate. If he is mafia, then he must in fact be on the other team. The one thing I can certainly conclude is that he is not a civvie,
Did you pause that for another lunch bite?

Matt wrote:
Rico/DH/anyone else who refuses to lynch MM - Why don't you want to take the word of the role checker? Why?

Thank you for pointing out your understanding of my frustration, DH, but at this point, I'm beginning to think anyone who willfully ignores the ALARMING AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE against MM based on Dom the rolechecker...is bad. Seriously. Even Rico.
I can't lynch anyone.

Matt wrote: Anyway, I'm off today and tomorrow, and plan on doing a full fledged ISO on MM. I doubt anyone will read it, however after reading the first two or three pages of his ISO the other day, I realized something...

When crazy night 0 Rico was fake sussing Zebra, do we all remember who went balls to the wall defense of Zebra?

Oh, it was MM? Hmmm...food for thought.
A full ISO on MM, without the word Dom in it, wouldn't be a bad idea. I kinda did one of those.

Also, MM said he confirmed Zebra town to banter with me confirming her baddie (a contest I won nyeh). Doesn't mean he couldn't have done it as a teamie, sure...

Pause what?

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