The Syndicate

Roxy wrote:Sorry to you as well DH.
In all of the games I have played recently I have played very poorly. Idk that I was ever that great but lately i do feel as if i have been worse than usual. It is funny how much rl affects my game play - so much so that it is ridiculous.

Roxy wrote:Oh I forgot to ask what DharmaHelpers role was. What is it DH?

Idk MM whoever seemed bad at the time? This game feels like it happened a lifetime ago for me.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:No but I'm glad I died early and didn't have to keep up with this whacky game :P

But you did keep up with this whacky game.

Roxy wrote:I was captain cold I got to kill every time an old rogue died.

splints and bf deaths gave me the 2 kills I used.

S~V~S wrote:I give up

But there are so many factions. I am so clueless, lol

TH not sure if you will wind up on my "OMG, I can't believe I trusted him AGAIN" list with Bass, or my "OMG I am never trusting him again" list with DH.

Long Con wrote:A reread of the night post... it seems as though Daisy wasn't the intended target tonight. The intended target had a balloon pop/explosion that sent the knife back at the killer... who then deflected it to Spacedaisy.

So, clearly the killer is Dharmahelper, in the Conservatory, with the Sadistic Grin.

thellama73 wrote:You may ask me three questions before I disappear into the ether again.

timmer wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:DH what do you think of Roxy?

I don't feel great about her waiting so long on the Aces thing.

Thanks. Who are you thinking about voting today?

I'm mulling some things over. If Made were on the poll I might have voted for him.

Thanks for the reply, DH, but I think you are twisting things a bit. This^^ is from what I can tell, your first mention of Made today. Thus, it had NOT been established that he was on the poll yet. Right?

DharmaHelper wrote:

timmer wrote:I'm quite busy at work today, I've been skimming as best I can, but I'm not really available to post a ton.

Here's the thing that bugs me about DH's Made suspicion today.

If you look back to DH's first post about Made today, it mentions that DH thought that Made was off the poll. Once others pointed out that he was actually there, DH ran with that knowledge, but I cannot get over that

a) there are clearly multiple players missing, not just Made. Even if you can't remember all of them, there are enough names on the poll who aren't posting that I find it hard to believe DH missed it and thought it was only Made.

I didn't think it was only Made, I just had Made on the mind.

b) it's a comment about a player DH thought was off of the poll. That means he was bringing up stuff that he thought would have no bearing on today's lynch. With all of the chaos yesterday, cases against Daisy, Roxy, Aces, older cases still against Bullz, some against SVS (his own, that one), BF, DH brings up a point about someone who he thought wasn't even relevant to today.

We established Made was on the poll before I brought up anything.

c) I won't go check, but I believe there is a protecting role, and likely a blocking role. Whether someone kills on odd nights or even nights, they'd have only had one chance so far to kill since instead of a night 3 we got day 3.1. So I don't even see how there is enough evidence yet about missed kills for Made to be a suspect anyway.

This is actually a valid point. I'm not saying my Made suspicion is bulletproof, clearly it is not. I would have voted for him already if I was 100% certain.

and lastly, d) I find it is more often baddies than goodies who bring up lynching low posters/absent players.

Difficult to defend against this, but I can assure you I almost always bring up lynching low/absent players regardless of alignment.

All of this means I am not liking DH's output today.

timmer wrote:I'm quite busy at work today, I've been skimming as best I can, but I'm not really available to post a ton.

Here's the thing that bugs me about DH's Made suspicion today.

If you look back to DH's first post about Made today, it mentions that DH thought that Made was off the poll. Once others pointed out that he was actually there, DH ran with that knowledge, but I cannot get over that

a) there are clearly multiple players missing, not just Made. Even if you can't remember all of them, there are enough names on the poll who aren't posting that I find it hard to believe DH missed it and thought it was only Made.

b) it's a comment about a player DH thought was off of the poll. That means he was bringing up stuff that he thought would have no bearing on today's lynch. With all of the chaos yesterday, cases against Daisy, Roxy, Aces, older cases still against Bullz, some against SVS (his own, that one), BF, DH brings up a point about someone who he thought wasn't even relevant to today.

c) I won't go check, but I believe there is a protecting role, and likely a blocking role. Whether someone kills on odd nights or even nights, they'd have only had one chance so far to kill since instead of a night 3 we got day 3.1. So I don't even see how there is enough evidence yet about missed kills for Made to be a suspect anyway.

and lastly, d) I find it is more often baddies than goodies who bring up lynching low posters/absent players.

All of this means I am not liking DH's output today.

S~V~S wrote:Well, now that he is not on the poll, are you also having that thought about Reywas, ika or Soneji? Or still just Made?

S~V~S wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

S~V~S wrote:What about Reywas, Soneji, Ika; all also still alive and not saying one hell of a lot. How did you decide on Made, not them, as the missing killer, DH?

I don't. But the hunt has to start someplace.

Wow. Kinda arbitrary, eh? Since Made was not on the poll, why did you not start the hunt elsewhere?

timmer wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

S~V~S wrote:What about Reywas, Soneji, Ika; all also still alive and not saying one hell of a lot. How did you decide on Made, not them, as the missing killer, DH?

I don't. But the hunt has to start someplace.

I've done a light readback, will do a fuller one on my lunchbreak, but this pings me a bit. So much happened yesterday and yet you are promoting the idea of lynching an absent player, and a specific one, when there are at least four, and they cannot defend themselves.

S~V~S wrote:What about Reywas, Soneji, Ika; all also still alive and not saying one hell of a lot. How did you decide on Made, not them, as the missing killer, DH?

S~V~S wrote:Can you lay it out for me, your reasons for wanting to lynch me? I get Aces reasons, but I am less clear on yours.

Roxy wrote:Been reading DH this morning -

You first help lead the lynch against llama. (which in a sense llama brought on himself but that's just one girls opinion). You thought llama should have been pointing out fallacies you thought existed Day 0 and llama did not bc he was too busy putting down The Flash and talking about monkeys.

DharmaHelper wrote:I don't think he's a civvie. I don't like his whole Day 0 schtick, it got annoying very quickly. Also, I noticed he didn't berate anyone for any logical fallacies throughout the entire duration of Day 0. People were jumping to conclusions all over the place and Llama did not voice any opposition to it.

DharmaHelper wrote:Mostly the speculation on the meaning of the letters, like the above. I expected llama to jump in and beat the shit out of the speculation like it owed him money. He didn't. That's suspect.

If you thought there were fallacies then why didn't YOU jump in and "beat the shit out of the speculation"?

Several reasons. First, if I jumped in and stopped the speculation, it wouldn't allow time for llama to do that, which was the whole point of my suspicion (that he didn't) If I let it be, it gave him enough time to do what I would expect civ llama to do. I was waiting for him to make a comment on it. Secondly, I care considerably less about speculation than llama does, or did. Our conversation in Death Note mafia (casting a wide net, etc) shows this.

When fingersplints tried to tell you this was normal for him you shut her down post haste.
This is not at all what she said.

DharmaHelper wrote:

fingersplints wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

llama seems crazy even for him. My only thoughts about that is he would probably be less likely to be this out there if he had bts and someone else to consider.[/size]

What's your point here? As far as I'm aware BTSC is not in full swing across the board quite yet.

I thought my point was pretty clear. He seems to be drawing a lot of attention to himself. I think he would be less likely to do so if he had btsc or potential btsc partners to worry about. Because it isn't in full swing yet doesn't mean that all those with the potential to gain btsc won't worry about their partners.

I suppose I disagree.

You see, the conversation we had was "I think llama would not be so out-of-character if he had BTSC and partners to consider" to which I replied "I disagree." Nothing at all about how this was "normal" llama play. And as it turns out, he did have BTSC mates to consider, just not the ones I had originally thought. But I guess your misrepresentation plays better to the "DH is bad" crowd.

Now she is dead.

Nicely observed. Pinning that on me after one (misrepresented) disagreement is shortsighted and clearly false, but nicely observed.

It was after this that he went after SVS putting the blame of the llama lynch directly at her feet (which I disagree with 100%)

This is maybe 50% accurate, all things considered. I do believe that SVS's comparisons of llama's past civvie games to this one did him absolutely zero favors that lynch, but I don't think she's the only 100% culpable party. I will take as much blame for that lynch as anybody.

DharmaHelper wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:@ Long Con. Well then let's hope there is a rezz for him this time around too.

I do recall the situation in that game. Actually, I don't think anyone would have drawn any comparisons if llama hadn't specifically said that he wanted to be King of the Morlocks again. In hindsight, it seems clear that he was just being funny.

IIRC SVS lead the "Hey this looks awfully like Llamas civvie game from this one time" train.

DharmaHelper wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Was Llama good or bad in the Morlock game? I can't recall, I think I have to go look.

Turnip Head wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Was Llama good or bad in the Morlock game? I can't recall, I think I have to go look.

He was Professor X, a civilian.

thellama73 wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Was Llama good or bad in the Morlock game? I can't recall, I think I have to go look.

For some reason, people thought my not being interested in anything besides being King of the Morlocks was somehow sinister and they lynched me for it.

History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of man.

This was how the Llama/X Men thing started, DH. Not exactly "leading a train". YOU started that train, iirc. After this I made two posts where I was wishy washy. Like how Llama does this to amuse himself when he has no BTS, which does not mean much in this game. Personally he looked exactly like he did in that game to me. But it is possible as well that he was doing it on purpose as some thought, which is pretty much all I said about the situation.

Don;t be blaming me for this one, the five people who voted him at the end, when Epi was clearly in the lead, are where the fingers should be pointing (not even at you, tbh). If finger pointing needs to be done.

If there doesn't need to be finger pointing, why did you just point the finger back at me rather defensively, if I don't deserve it, according to you?

You did deserve this finger-pointing imho
I think SVS is right to have pointed the finger at you.

You voted Bass - latching on to a pre-built case. and adding that Bass reminded you of the Death Note game where Bass was bad.

Again not true. I voted Bass for my own reasons, I didn't think he was telling the truth, and his comments reminded me of Death Note. I explained this suspicion in (according to two very intelligent women) sufficient detail. Do go back and read my posts, see if you can find one instance of me bringing up Timmer's (the royal Timmer) case. If you can, I'll address that. Otherwise, I would thank you not to misrepresent me any further.

Then you try to take full claim of the Bass lynch - it seemed important to you that people thought it was your doing:
*AGAIN* Not true. Never once did I say anything to the effect of "Bass's lynch was 100% my doing, everyone bow before my Holy likeness". Sure, I've done so in the past when I've actually built cases and rallied the troops, but that was not the case with Bass. I had a personal hunch, it paid off, I was pleased it did so. I was going to go back and point out the several quotes of mine you *missed* where I correct people about my taking credit for anything, but you did that yourself, which is baffling. So I'll just highlight that post.

Huh. Guess that hunch of mine paid off.

Me expressing my own personal victory, not taking any credit or asking for it from anyone.

If it were me, I'd go back and look at SVS and FZ since they both practically jumped down my throat after I voted Bass.

Not seeking credit, seeking suspects based on a successful mafia lynch. I've already outlined my SVS suspicion, and my lack of an FZ suspicion should tell you I don't find her suspect.
Still trying to get SVS lynched.
One tends to do that when one has a suspect.

To be fair, I'm hardly responsible for the Bass lynch being a success. I was just personally correct, which is an achievement for myself. Several others seemed to think he was bad.

Oh so Timmer can brag and take all the credit but I can't I see how it is.

If you didn't know this was a joke, you could look at TH's signature.
Tbf you do say that several others seen Bass was bad but you still point out - AGAIN - that your were right.

Now you go back to pressing SVS for lynch bc she "jumped down your throat" for your Bass vote - which she did not btw.

That's your opinion, and one I've already discussed in previous posts, at-length.

I find it odd that when you could not get one case to stick to SVS you went ahead and made another case against her - why do you need SVS dead this game?

The objective of the game is to eliminate the mafia. If I think she is a mafia, I will make a case and make an attempt at eliminating her.

Now you mention you would vote for Made out of the clear blue sky just bc he has not been around - why? You have been making cases on SVS now you move on to someone who is not even been playing or posting or even voting - do you think it will be easier to lynch a non player than to lynch SVS?

It's Day 3. Non-participation hurts civs across the board. the short answer is that I would not be opposed to a Made lynch, the long answer is coming in another post since this one is not the place.

You are suspicious of me for not coming out sooner about Aces but I notice you did not say anything to help him either. Don't play that song to me DH.

Sorry, what? How am I supposed to say anything to help Aces when you kept the identity of your BTSC partner a secret for so long, and it would be impossible for me to know you were talking about him? Also, when it became clear to me Aces was in danger (unfairly so, in my view) I shifted my vote to help him. Actions speak louder than words, Rox.

blindfaeth wrote:And there's the proverbial no u from DH.

Linki, I kind of want to call everyone timmer now it's getting to be a thing

Long Con wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Guys I think Made is on the poll as "Destroyed".

Long Con wrote:One thing I did want to mention is that we possibly should be concerned that this is some sort of reverse day. Should we just vote as normal for the most suspicious person? We probably should, because if we get all caught up in guessing things could go wrong. But it's worth at least talking about a little bit.

Do you see any alternative way to play it?

That does make sense. In that respect, his continued absence is noteworthy.

I don't think Made's continued absence is noteworthy due to his name being "Destroyed" on the poll. It's just MR's opposite-translation of the name "Made". None of the poll names carry any meaning beyond MR's creativity with the names.

OR, if you meant my continued absense being noteworthy, well.... I was just at my bowling banquet. Like, damn DH, can't you let a guy have one night of fun??

All right, I know you didn't mean me. But I thought it for a sec, because I had many beers. Some, I drank two at a time. Yup! I did a new trick, it was cool, people were like "he didn't even drip!" And I was like, yup. That second beer was an extra one, so sshhhhhhhh....

Turnip Head wrote:Guys I think Made is on the poll as "Destroyed".

Long Con wrote:One thing I did want to mention is that we possibly should be concerned that this is some sort of reverse day. Should we just vote as normal for the most suspicious person? We probably should, because if we get all caught up in guessing things could go wrong. But it's worth at least talking about a little bit.

Do you see any alternative way to play it?

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:DH what do you think of Roxy?

I don't feel great about her waiting so long on the Aces thing.

Thanks. Who are you thinking about voting today?

I'm mulling some things over. If Made were on the poll I might have voted for him.

That's where I was leaning. The thing that I don't get is who woulld take him off the poll or if someone didn't take in off the poll then he might have moved somewhere on the map that took him of the poll.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:DH what do you think of Roxy?

I don't feel great about her waiting so long on the Aces thing.

Thanks. Who are you thinking about voting today?

Bass_the_Clever wrote:DH what do you think of Roxy?

rabbit8 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Why does it feel like BF's suspicion of me boils down to "I just don't like him". >_>

Because no one likes you?

Me Roxy, I think I was just fucking with you. I have no real suspicions other than LC at this point, which is weak at best. I will be rereading the thread this weekend. Then I will be putting more out there.

blindfaeth wrote:Sorry you had additional questions I forgot to answer.

I switched to DH not because he is more suspicious but there isn't enough momentum for a bullz vote. I think he is a good choice though, he was using a really small percentage as one point for suspecting SVS, which I believe was disproven due to bass being allowed to return re: no probable btsc. And I just think his attitude in his responses to me reek, and he's pushing the bass lynch as a reason we should not be suspecting him and ignoring the fact they don't know eachother. I'm not buying what he is selling.

SD and Aces.. I recall being pinged by Daisy early. I read timmers case on her just now and I would feel OK putting a vote there. Aces is always so quiet, I don't have a good grasp. I didn't like his vote on me obviously, I think what irks me most was he came in to explain that he voted based on not being caught up but never expanded on why exactly he voted me at the time. I understand something changed his mind, whether he'd misread something or misinterpreted or whatever but didn't try to explain unless I missed it.

FZ. wrote:This is by far my least thought out vote, but I can't stay. I'm going with a hunch and voting SD. Sorry, I won't be here tonight

blindfaeth wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:

blindfaeth wrote:I don't really feel like I've been around less, but it may seem that way because it takes longer for me to catch up on the posts now that we are past fluff and a higher percentage of them are longer.

I think it's fair to say your activity levels have dropped off, but I'm not seeing much of a change in the overall thread activity level. If anything it seems quieter in here now than it did Day 1, back when you were a relatively high poster. I must be missing these long, non-fluff posts of which you speak. But I'll admit, now that I'm experiencing the absolute madness that is the Champs game, my idea of a busy thread might be quite different from yours

Do you have any reads other than Bullz for not helping and Sophie for being OT? What do you think of SVS, Daisy vs LC, Aces etc. ? Do you genuinely suspect DH for going after SVS or was this an "on principle" vote because you don't agree with his methods?

FWIW I agree that Sophie could be trying harder to help when she is here, but I'm taking a wait-and-see approach with her still to see if she turns it around. Same thing with Bullz tbh, I'm feeling okay about him but he needs to step it up.

Yes. I'm not going to repeat them every time I post, but I genuinely suspect DH, I have made it clear I think LC is fishy - Im still waiting to hear anything useful from made. He was ultra confused day 1 after reading the first post and then voted himself.

Bullz obviously, you for having wreak suspicions pre-Champs game. That more or less covers it.

I don't suspect SVS or MM really at all. Timmer I feel OK about but I waffle.