The Syndicate

I'm beginning to think you're all bad.

self vote TH?

S~V~S wrote:I didn't

Killing people on the same square would be suicidal.

How suicidal would it really be?
As you said, WIFOM.

S~V~S wrote:So if I am rude,I am being snide, and if I am nice I am bieng manipulative?

Gotcha

Not really the argument I made, but sure.

Why'd you try and kill splints last night?

S~V~S wrote:

Dom wrote:

S~V~S wrote:Calling it a fancy name like "straw man" or whatever jargon does not change that you are voting for someone who is no threat to you just because. You aren't paying attention.

Hiding behind strategy terms does not make it better tbh. If you think I am bad, have some balls and vote for me. But voting for MM becasue he trusted you and told you the truth about his role sucks.

#1) Why so snide? As you said before, it doesn't suit you well.
#2)

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.

So, yeah. I understand that technically, MM does not need to die for a civ win, but in practice-- he does.

I was talking to Golden, actually. I missed the Linki. And I did not think i was being snide; and if you think I have been being snide, you don't know me as well as I thought you did. I think Golden is misguided, and I am somewhat upset about that, but I don't think "snide" is fair. And yeah, strawman is the kind of thing Llama & Epi pepper their posts with. So I know what it is. I would not expect you to defend it.

Posts like this only make me more sure you're bad. You're attempting to use emotion to manipulate me into backing off you. You've done it in this game before.

S~V~S wrote:Calling it a fancy name like "straw man" or whatever jargon does not change that you are voting for someone who is no threat to you just because. You aren't paying attention.

Hiding behind strategy terms does not make it better tbh. If you think I am bad, have some balls and vote for me. But voting for MM becasue he trusted you and told you the truth about his role sucks.

#1) Why so snide? As you said before, it doesn't suit you well.
#2)

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.

So, yeah. I understand that technically, MM does not need to die for a civ win, but in practice-- he does.

Golden wrote:

S~V~S wrote:So you think lynching someone who you don;t need dead to win is cool? Host verified?

My entire concept of you has changed, tbh.

It's a straw man argument to say I don't need him dead to win. My win condition does not need him dead to win. However, I believe in practice I almost certainly will not win unless he is dead. I have to be alive to win, SVS.

this.

Tranq wrote:Read my posts, Dom. I said the Circle could NK MM, not NK SVS.
Why didn't you reply to the question i asked here: http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... 60#p204938

- The Circle could NK MM. Let's say they have no other targets other than MM, why wouldn't they NK him? I guess if they had no other targets they could try to NK you again
- We could lynch SVS as the very last baddie and end the game with MM still alive.

Neither of these are fool proof ideas but at the very least i want to reduce Circle numbers until Timmer appears on the poll again.

I think you're Circle, fwiw. I think Matt was right about you. I don't expect you to change your vote. You clearly aren't considering any option other than not lynching a Circle today

But... why would they, if they have the numbers? Why wouldn't they avoid it? Put it on the civvies until they have numbers?
I am FAR more sure that SVS is bad than anyone you're suggesting.

S~V~S wrote:

Dom wrote:

S~V~S wrote:I don't know if Tranq is stupid enough to kill someone on the same square as he is, but I am not. Even if I had a kill, which I don't.

So Dom, who told you about MMs role?

Weren't you after TH for using Wifom????

Did you ever answer this Dom; who told you about MMs role?

The person who recruited me.

Long Con wrote:

Tranq wrote:@ Hosts: Would the civvies need the Tarnished Golem dead if he chose a baddie as his watched over player?

No team needs the Tarnished Golem dead to win. He mimics the Win Condition of the player he's watching over, but doesn't technically join their team.

Now, if their protected player is dead...

The Tarnished Golem wins when its watched-over player wins. If its watched-over player dies, the Tarnished Golem may kill every other night, any target, and wins only by killing the ones it holds responsible, and surviving until the end. Immune to poison.

So... you think the baddies are gonna take out SVS so the Golem can kill them? Are you seriously suggesting they are that stupid?
No, they'll leave her alive. So we have to lynch SVS. In order to do that without losing unnecessary civs, we have to lynch the Golem.

Tranq wrote:Also i don't see how any of this Mac Secret Role stuff is relevant to today's lynch

It isn't. SVS is scrambling.

It is painfully obvious that Floyd was not Cabal. Look at how SVS voted.

Tranq wrote:@ TH: Hmm. If the Golem is protecting you, then you shouldn't have any problem voting SVS today, right?

Dom wrote:

Tranq wrote: - lynch a role nobody needs dead

The only way you don't need his role dead is if you are Cabal.

Wrong. Read the roles :P

@ Hosts: Would the civvies need the Tarnished Golem dead if he chose a baddie as his watched over player?

No, I think you need to read the roles.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I may or may not know Golden's role. What does that have to do with this?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Sorsha wrote:Something else just occurred to me as I was washing dishes.

Golden shouldn't have too much doubt over my role. Iirc I was able to prove it to him before he even checked me. So as far as me not being the trickster there shouldn't be a doubt in his mind, and if I'm not the trickster then there would be no way for me to fool his check.

I have no problem with him checking again or whatever but if golden is to be believed then I don't know how he could seriously be doubting me. But paranoia, so yeah.

I don't think anybody thinks your the Trickster.

her the trickster?

Tranq wrote: - lynch a role nobody needs dead

The only way you don't need his role dead is if you are Cabal.

fingersplints wrote:

Dom wrote:Tranq, why do you trust that the Circle will do the civvie's job?

I don't think we should trust them to do it either, but I don't know which team we would be better to lynch either.

Cabal.
Why?
Because if we mislynch and vote SVS we're in a world of hurt.

Tranq, why do you trust that the Circle will do the civvie's job?

S~V~S wrote:I don't know if Tranq is stupid enough to kill someone on the same square as he is, but I am not. Even if I had a kill, which I don't.

So Dom, who told you about MMs role?

Weren't you after TH for using Wifom????

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sorsha

Congrats on not dying fingerplints.

No U

You're obviously bad. A civ Sorsha would not benefit from lynching me.

Anyone with a civ role would benefit from lynching a de facto baddie.

Tranq wrote:lol @ the random votes already. Timmer is off the poll again. Again, was anyone asked if they wanted to take him off the poll? He has to have 2 or 3 teammates helping him out.

We need a landslide Circle lynch today or the game will be over soon. TH is our best bet at that, let's just hope he isn't Scrippleskitz.
Dom: Why aren't you voting TH? Name your best guess at Timmer's 2-3 teammates.
Sorsha: Why aren't you voting TH? Name your best guess at Timmer's 2-3 teammates.
MM: Why aren't you voting TH? Name your best guess at Timmer's 2-3 teammates.

Timmer's teammates are probably TH? Maybe Sorsha.

fingersplints wrote:

Golden wrote:Looks like the trickster is a townie.

Tranq made a point.. how do you know this reval won't be a lie? But my gut says there is nothing in the trickster's role that would cause this host reveal to be a lie. And, I kind of wonder if some of the anti-trickster vote sentiment was from people who were a little afraid that we would find out the trickster wasn't bad.

I'm glad to see fingersplints survive, and I'd like to know if she has any inclination as to who tried to kill her.

I do actually. I think it was SVS. But if not her, Tranq.
Made a mistake trying to NK me

Tranq - can you tell me why it was SVS and not you who tried to kill me? SVS - same question about Tranq

FWIW, I think SVS tried to kill you and not Tranq as well.

Tranq wrote:I don't think anyone paying attention to the thread can be in doubt of MM's role.

Did you read the conversation i just had with Sorsha?

But why would Circle kill them? I don't expect them to cooperate with us.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sorsha

Congrats on not dying fingerplints.

you're not actually too happy about her survival, are you?

votes are changeable. :marmot:

voting mm

Metalmarsh89 wrote:
I found Matt's quest believable, which is why I didn't vote him yesterday.

At it's core, the case on Matt was not predicated on his "quest".

Tranq wrote:Atleast 2 players have to be helping him. Possibly 3. If Timmer only has 2 teammates left, someone else should've gotten a vote in taking him off the poll.

@ Everyone: Was anyone asked if they agreed to taking Timmer off the poll?

No.

Draco-- I'm voting Trickster because I hope it'll tell us which baddie team the trickster is on. I mean, yes, I would imagine the Trickster is bad, but if he's Cabal, it lends credence to a theory of mine.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Dom wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sorsha has voted for an awful lot of civilians lately.

This is awfully convenient.

What is this?

If we go with Floyd being the last baddie lynched (and I don't think he was actually bad at this point), then we haven't lynched a baddie in 4 Days. Everyone's been voting for an awful lot of civilians lately-- what's your point?

I'd like ot know about the trickster, me thinks.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:Sorsha has voted for an awful lot of civilians lately.

This is awfully convenient.

RIP Matt... I am sorry I was so wrong.

Tranq wrote:I think all three of you could be bad tbh.

I'm still thinking TH > Matt > Dom atm but i haven't voted yet. I'm willing to consider all options.

Do any of you think Timmer isn't a baddie?
Do you think he's Cabal or Circle?
Assuming he's Circle, who do you think his teammates are? He has to have atleast 2 or 3.
How do you think he managed to disappear from the poll two times in a row?
Thoughts on the Cabal?
Thoughts on the Living Statue?
Thoughts on SVS?
Thoughts on LoRab?

I think Timmer is likely bad.
I think the theory was Circle-- but it's been a few days. -_-
Teammates? Maybe TH... maaaaybe Matt.... not sure.

Cabal? I'm leaning either SVS or you. :/ SVS more likely.
The Living Statue is benevolent.
SVS-- I'm thinking bad.
LoRab-- civ.

Matt wrote:Oh my.

Dom - What team do you think I'm on?

Let's be clear. Dom is right. I didn't think of the consequences of hinting (yes, hinting) at Dom's role, but assuming I'm bad, I guess I'm cleared of being Witherdeath, right? Because they were the ones who targeted you, correct Dom? So that wouldn't make much sense if I knew your role and suggested "Hey let's kill Dom! Derp"

So, that must mean I'm Circle of Decay. Do you have me pegged as Circle, Dom? Who are my partners?

I don't know what team you're on. I don't have a specific team in mind for you. I could see either working. And Circle targeted me for a kill-- not Witherdeath.

You also took the quest upon yourself. I never said "quest". I never asked you to go get it. It was decently far into the game, and I just told you where it started. I said to you, it might have been moved by now-- I believe it had. This is what I meant by vague. I never asked you to do anything at all.

Draconus wrote:I am tearing the rest of my hair out trying to figure you out, Matt.

So here it goes. Pants down, bearing all, gun to head, "WHAT TEAM?!"
I think Matt, TH, and Timmer are Decay. Possibly Lorab, too, if she's bad. (and that's a fat fucking IF)
I think SVS could be the last Cabal, and I think she recruited Dom.
So I'm leaving my vote where it is for now for fear of having a mecca-baddie in our future... I mean... What quest?

*Draconus pulls his pants back up and zips them up. Realizing how unnecessary that part was, he hurriedly walks out of the room, face bright red.*

Linki: I'll get to that later.

Draco-- why do I want to lynch SVS, then?

Matt wrote:TH - Blah

I've been at this for two days straight. Matt is a tired panda.

Anyway I'm not quitting by any means, but I can't possibly defend myself any longer, mostly because I don't think any of it is getting through to most of you.

Lorab seems like a baddie that's upset Dom outed himself and then blamed me. "Beware the Lorab" - Dr Wilgy November 2015

Never forget!

Be back tomorrow before work. Peace all

I outed myself?

Okay, here's where I'm 2460Done with your bullsuit.
You outed my role. You made it PAINFULLY obvious to the several people in the game who didn't know my role. You asked me several times if I had been recruited yet-- a simple read of the roles would tell anyone what you're talking about. You would go from talking about my role to talking about me very casually without really changing the subject-- implying we are both one in the same. You have been anything but subtle. You have done anything but hint. So, yes, I'm frustrated with that. I think you played, honestly, like a jerk. If I had come in the thread and asked you a super specific role question-- you'd be livid. I do know a role you may be assigned. I have reasons to believe that you: 1) may have been recruited, 2) aren't that role at all, or 3) are no longer that role. I argued these things before and without acknowledging any of your claims. However, here's where we really get into the territory of, "You Outed Me". You made super specific claims against me. You listed out events that happened WEEKS ago. You twisted them to make them fit your agenda. You created a narrative that is made of half truths to smear me, and demanded a response from me. I ignored it for several reasons. Your insistence only made me think of you worse because you are destroying a huge opportunity for the civs by spilling all of this and requiring me to acknowledge it. You created this situation, not me. I'm going to kindly ask you to sit the hell down and NOT tell me who outed me. You outed me. I've been outed enough times to know when it's happening.

I think you are bad. You have created a story made of half truths trying to make me look bad and anyone who knows that even some of their truth ratings has gotten the picture on my end. If only you knew who had recruited me-- you wouldn't be doing this.

Additionally, you implied, in your letter to the Living Statue that you have just no clue who he is. You implied he might be dead. A few days later-- you're sure he's me. But hey! You didn't run into anyone else. You didn't get recruited. You didn't get that information anywhere! And hey! All the people you mentioned as suspects, they're dead too. Strange.

Don't attempt to lecture me on role outing. I won't entertain your BS.
I think you are bad. I hope everyone votes for you.

S~V~S wrote:

Dom wrote:No, SVS, it's that you haven't given a single reason. I'd like to hear how I could be a periphery baddie. Which team am I on?

Don't make such a casual statement with zero reasoning and expect me to not respond.

Well you are on the poll today, so several people must think you are a baddie. My point was that you were, IMO, peripheral, perhaps a recruit. And if you are, I have no idea which team you are on. People try to make associations, but they are often wrong, so I don't spend alot of time on that unless the reason I suspect someone is based on interactions. I believe this is the second time I have said this in this game.

And I know Lorab trusts you, but I also know Lorab has a big heart and can be easy to trick because she WANTS to believe. I also know Golden trusts Lorab,which has given me pause about her, since I previously suspected her, and also, to a lesser extent, about you. But I know WHY he trusts her; I don't know why she trusts you. Just like she, or you, don't really know why I do NOT. Lets say it is a process of elimination based on a conversation I had with someone now dead.

If I ever vote for you, I will tell you why.

This post is EXACTLY why I do not trust you SVS.

Going to bed. I feel like I have to let everyone know-- otherwise I might be asked teh same question five times and be treated as if I ignored it each time.

First, Matt, lol no. I never asked you to do anything. You asked me where the item was, I gave you where I last knew it to be, but was not overly enthusiastic about our encounter at all.

Matt wrote:Dear Living Statue,
I fear you are dead or have been turned. Perhaps even stuck forever if the Gem is lost. Nonetheless, I have received word that my destiny lies elsewhere. If you are alive and still an ally, good luck to you brave sir. Perhaps one day we will meet again.

Sincerely,
Matt F

While we're talking about people who lie-- this clearly shows you to be one.

Matt wrote:Dom - I don't know what you're talking about because clearly I've been making up stories and so I have no response to you.

On that note, stop taking everything so personally. I never assumed you sat at a computer all day, but you were in the thread talking, I asked you a question, and then you vanished. So yeah, I kept asking.

Anyway, again, I was smokin' the crack pipe peeps. There is no Spirit Oracle or Paradise Meadows, I was only trying to save myself from certain lynch by feeding you stories. I am civ, though, guaranteed.

You asked five times, each time saying "Dom still hasn't answered this"

Bullshit you weren't trying to smear me.

No, SVS, it's that you haven't given a single reason. I'd like to hear how I could be a periphery baddie. Which team am I on?

Don't make such a casual statement with zero reasoning and expect me to not respond.

S~V~S wrote:What No U? I voted for TH before, I think the Lich saved him.

I'm a periphery baddie?

Matt wrote:
But yeah, let's worry about Lorab for later. Lynch Dom. "Vague instructions"...Dom, do you call specific coordinates vague instructions?

No.
No.
No.
I told you where I last knew where the item was. I disclaimed that anyone could have taken it and moved it. I NEVER asked you to get it because I NEVER wanted YOU to do it.
You are a liar.

Matt wrote:Oh, my bad.

Well anyway, just trying to clear my good name. Guess it won't happen that way.

Again, Dom, please elaborate on how specific coordinates are vague instructions.

How many times are you going to ask me before you realize that I don't sit at a computer all day?

Matt wrote:Oh shit. Golden, I just realized. You have no idea who Dom is do you? You thought he was the Spirit Oracle?

Dude, I can think of why his NK failed and believe it or not, this theory goes back to the one I had about Bullz surviving his own teams NKs cuz he had a protect. I won't elaborate, because unlike Dom I don't want to completely give away Dom's role, but...

Dude, do you not know who Dom is?

Linki - Drac, Tranq, yes that would be wonderful if you voted TH over me. However, I'm telling you, it's almost crunch time. I know I'm civ and I know now that Dom is completely lying about everything, so he is probably a better bet.

Buuuut, and no offense Turnip, Turnip is a fine option over me as well.

I know-- it's weird that someone tried to have an ounce of subtlety when it came to referencing another player's role-- you wouldn't know anything about that, so it must be hard for you to process.

Matt wrote:
Who cares who tried to kill him?

Scenario 1 off the top of my head - The team who tried to kill him didn't have anyone else to target, so they were like eff it, let's do this and save some face.

That's just off the top of my head.

But yeah, I can see why you're confused.

Let me ask you a question, Golden, do you consider specific coordinates to be "vague instructions" and if so, how do you come to that conclusion? Still waiting for Dom to answer that one

FIRST of all you don't think it matters who tried to kill me? I do.

SECOND of all there's no way there was no one else for the baddies to target that night because I had BTSC with someone that night.

THIRD of all YOU ASKED ME THAT FUCKING QUESTION THREE TIMES IN A FEW HOURS WHEN I WAS AT CLASS AND I CANNOT STAND HOW YOU ACT LIKE I IGNORED YOU. STOP.

Matt wrote:Lorab, just in case there is a lie detect, can you repeat that sentence about Wilgy with the correct spelling?

Lorab - If you and others get me lynched and turn up civvie, and here I've been all day telling you that Dom is a liar liar pants on fire, will you be looking at him next? Let me ask you, Lorab, do you consider specific coordinates "vague instructions", and if so, how did you come to that conclusion? Yup, still waiting for Dom to answer that one.

SVS - Before you come in here and vote for me, I'll ask that you remember several players (including Dom) seemed to turn on you with the snap of the fingers, and I even brought up how curious that was. If you are civvie, I ask that you do not lynch me. Thank you for your time.

Linki - No. That's one of the few things I think the hosts would get mad about, so I can't name the specific coordinate. But I'm happy that you agree that specific coordinates are not "vague instructions". Dom, what do you think?

FOUR TIMEs. FOUR TIMES!!!!!

Matt wrote:

LoRab wrote:And specific coordinates as in letter and number? No, that isn't vague. Are you saying that Dom told you what square you should go to?

Dom, would you say that specific coordinates are "vague instructions" ?

FIVE TIMES!!!!

Matt wrote:Oh snap.

ATTN: All defenses of myself using the Spirit Oracle are now null and void. Lynch away, my friends. I'm kind of tired of defending.

But lynch Dom next

Just like a court case-- doesn't really matter, does it?

S~V~S wrote:The more I read, the more I think I was possibly wrong about Matt the other day. I think TH is more of a core baddie, and Dom more of a peripheral one, so at this point I am voting for TH. I think the Lich is a baddie, and I think the Lich saved him.

Nice NO U.

Matt wrote:

Tranq wrote:@ LoRab & Matt: Can you look at that list of items and tell me if there are Trickster-type items on there? Items that look like they can take you off the poll?

Let me check...

Of all the items, the only one that looks like it could be a poll remover is the "Vanisher Cloak". But I'm guessing based on the name.

Linki - Oh holy moley. Now you're going to say you never sent me on a quest?!



Lynch Dom, you get a bad guy. Guaraneffinteed.

Okay, out for food. Be back in a bit.

No I didn't.
You were really pushy and I gave you vague instructions.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Dom wrote:Matt also thinks becuse his "quest was doomed" means I am not civvie?? Like??? What???

If you are a civvie, maybe his quest would be fulfilled... by someone else.

In that case, would he be "doomed" and would "dark times" be ahead?

He wasn't doomed-- his quest was. Interesting take though.

He could no longer complete his "quest" that I never sent him on.

Matt also thinks becuse his "quest was doomed" means I am not civvie?? Like??? What???

I would add that there's also the fourth possibility that your role was baddie from the beginning and my hunch about that role is wrong.


So, 3/4 of my options lead to you being bad.


Notice how I didn't spell everything out for everyone like that until you literally outed me. Learn some tact.

IF Matt was telling the truth here, he should not know. However, he's hiding something.

NOTE: Matt still hasn't addressed how he knows my role.

Matt wrote:

Dom wrote:Bottom Line: if Matt's story is true he shouldn't know my role. There's more to it than that, but that's the big thing that just makes me more sure he's witholding information.

Oh my, you are such a baddie. You've got to be. I'm civ, I'm not lying, you know my role, you accuse me of lying and being bad...

Like I said, even if lynched, I'm comforted that you'll be lynched shortly thereafter.

I have three options on your role:

1) You are civ and I am wrong
2) You have been recruited somehow
3) You are the trickster

Matt wrote:

Dom wrote:Fine, Matt.

Matt is lying about a few things. Telling you what he is lying about requires me to out myself-- something I do not do. Matt has put me in a position where I either have to sit here and listen to him lie about the circumstances of his quest or I out myself-- but Matt's done quite a nice job doing that anyway.

Well I'm not lying about jack, so you're the ultimate betrayer.

Luckily for you, I believe members of this forum probably put more trust in you then in me, but for this game, they shouldn't.

With the way you play-- they should.

Bottom Line: if Matt's story is true he shouldn't know my role. There's more to it than that, but that's the big thing that just makes me more sure he's witholding information.

Fine, Matt.

Matt is lying about a few things. Telling you what he is lying about requires me to out myself-- something I do not do. Matt has put me in a position where I either have to sit here and listen to him lie about the circumstances of his quest or I out myself-- but Matt's done quite a nice job doing that anyway.

I'm sorry guys-- I'm a bit frustrated with how Matt F has been talking about our interactions because he has act one ounce of subtlety or tact.

Anyway-- Matt knows something about me that he should not know if his story is true.

I'm done for the night.

Matt wrote:

Dom wrote:

Golden wrote:

Golden wrote:Matt - in respect of your grand quest - do the words 'avatar of maligna' mean anything to you?

Matt ^^

Don't trust him.


He knows things he should not know unless he's lied about who he's talked to.
He is lying about things.

First, Golden, no those words don't mean anything, but let me check my list. Nope not on my list.

Second, Dom, oh really? Since I happen to know everything I just said is 100% truthful, I'm interested to know what exactly I'm lying about?

Gonna ask you to back the hell off tbh

Golden wrote:I'm going to hear Matt out. I wouldn't I say I trust him... his quest might be just as beneficial to him no matter his affiliation. But I don't think he is lying about having a quest - do you have reason to think that?

I've seen evidence that being put on a quest is something that could happen in this game. I haven't had one myself.

Specifically about the quest?
No.