The Syndicate

Jay, you played well. Reminds me of my play in Shawshank.

Epignosis wrote:Also also....

Nuking the Mafia keeps my FEB top score alive.

f u

Epignosis wrote:
Ricochet wrote:
Epignosis wrote:Goddamn Rico.
wut
That expression means "Holy shit dude!" in this context.

I like the detail you put into the visuals. Real smart.

this

good game peeps.

thx rico. i loved this game.

Ricochet wrote:I've no idea why the Mafia didn't touch Jay, especially after the "outed" conversations, which you may also see as a recurent question in my notes. Quin posited in the chat that they might have feared his secrets (being bulletproof or redirecting the kill back at them), otherwise :shruggies:.

1) Easy lynch. If G-Man didn't get him off the poll, it would have been a good day to lynch him.
2) Feared his secrets.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:What was your point?
I have a bad voting record. Epi has a bad voting record. We all have a bad voting record. There have been no mafia lynches and only one non-civilian lynch.

And?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:Who has a good voting record?
That's my point.

Dom wrote:Why are you so aggressively unanalytical about your comments here?
I don't understand the question. Please rephrase.

What was your point?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I didn't find the reasons you supplied for calling somebody good compelling.

Your voting record is shit.

You're not receptive to shit.

I'm offering more than you are Mr. Fuck Christmas.

Who has a good voting record?

Why are you so aggressively unanalytical about your comments here?

DrWilgy wrote:Yo, sorry. I thought I had another day

Would've voted Sig from what I read.

I am feeling like crap for missing the vote. I meant to be around more t EoD. My best friend came around and surprised me to see Rogue One. I totally forgot about the game. In the end, I would have voted Wilgy for not responding ot me.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Dom:

Posting from my phone so I won't use quotes.

~ The core of my concern about your teatment of sig today is that you're being opportunistic. I think MM's timing-based accusation of timmer was weak, and I think your timing-based accusation of sig is weak.

~ I don't give a crap that you suspect me. Who doesn't suspect me? I'm the odds-on lynch whenever I'm back in the poll. My interest is in figuring out who's bad before that happens if it must. Your handling of sig this phase is suspicious and I am treating it accordingly.

~ trice opened Day 4 immediately against me before a bandwagon ever formed on him. That logic doesn't hold.

--That's fine... but like... he's only my second strongest suspicion. I have a civ read on everyone but him, you, Lorab, and Wilgy.

-- it's not. you've decided it is for a reason unbeknownst to me. the two situations are dissimilar.

--my memory fails me. maybe he wanted civ cred. I see no reason why he would LIE about you being the SK.

Quin wrote:
Dom wrote: Wilgy has said he will catch up and post his thoughts. I understand he might not read detailed, but I'm awaiting those thoughts before I vote for him. Perhaps that will convince me to not vote for him.
You said 'defend'. I don't think that defending oneself and being engaged in the thread are synonymous. Although, I guess they both lead to the intended outcome where one is cleared of suspicion.

'Tis what I meant.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:TBH it's that I skimmed the thread at that point and just wanted a summary. Too many posts. So I asked for one. I have since determined that I think MM is civ and I no longer care about his reasons for his old Timmer suspicion.
Comments on it not making sense are attributed to the backwards nature of the suspicion. If you continue reading (this is the third time I have told you to actually go back and find the facts on this rather than presenting half of them), you'll see that I even apologize to him for not realizing he had corrected himself.
Any reason why you leave out key details here?
You apologized in the same post I just brought up. You're portraying this like it was a natural progression from "MM's suspicion is backwards" to "MM suspects timmer now" to "Nevermind, I apologize". You didn't forgive his timmer suspicion when you apologized, it's literally the same moment you asked him to expand on it.

Here is what I said:

Spoiler: show

I said the suspicion was non-sensical before apologizing. Why do I have to keep correcting the record?
I asked him to clarify because I didn't understand why he thought Timmer was suspicious. This is for a variety of reasons. 1) You'll read that I was pretty ill at the time and if you read around my post history, I got many, many facts wrong in these times. This was one of three I found just by re-reading this section of my post history. 2) I skimmed parts of the thread becaues people were posting a lot. 3) I did not understand his suspicion.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:If I believe there might be an inconsistency in the way you treat two people in this game under similar circumstances, that raises questions about your sincerity. I'm going to explore that scenario as much as I feel is necessary to determine whether your mindset is civilian-oriented.

I don't believe these are the same circumstances, and I also do not believe you are characterizing my posts in an accurate way.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Why do you keep asserting I'm leaving out details? What is the implication?

It's a change of tone you have had. I am curious where it came from. It couldn't be that I suspect you, could it?

I civ read you most of the game-- I now want to lynch you.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Nobody has addressed this:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:A point about the trice controversy that I'm not sure has been adequately addressed:

Those who think I'm the SK and trice exposed me -- do you assert that trice wasn't genuinely trying as hard as he could to get me lynched?
If I'm the SK, trice didn't merely out me. He tried his best to lynch me too, otherwise unprovoked and unpressured. Explain that to me. I think there's a readily visible motive for him to erroneously paint me as the SK*, but there is not a readily visible motive for him to try to lead the lynch of the player upon whom one of his win conditions rests. If you accept that reality, that means you accept that trice didn't care about winning the game. You accept that trice screwed his potential teammate over to no gain of his own.

*even without having been recruited, he can still play in a way that anticipates recruitment. By screaming and yelling about the SK he is by default revealing himself to the true SK that it's a role he is placing inordinate focus on -- that serves as a signal and can facilitate the recruitment. By focusing that screaming and yelling on someone who is not the SK (me), he ensures that when his role is publicly revealed, he doesn't expose both himself and his teammate. Any suspicions originating from that reveal are directed upon me and my false lynch safeguards them both.

So, everyone who has defaulted to the notion that I am the SK because trice said so -- it is your responsibility to answer this. Off-hand I can name: Epignosis and Dom. Marmot and LoRab too, though their suspicion has been less SK-focused. Those who are cursed I understand you can't answer now. Do it later.

It is my understanding htat Trice revealed that because he didn't want to be lynched.

but scotty is dead.

Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:Quin, why do you think Trice thought JJJ as the SK?
Can you rephrase this?

Why do you think Trice thought JJJ ist he SK?

Quin wrote:
Dom wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:No. You are very much misrepresenting that situation.
I criticized MM for voting Boomslang instead of timmer in that instance. I called his logic backwards and that if he thinks timmer is bad because of his return, then he should vote for timmer-- not for his suspected teammate.

But that's a detail you failed to mention here.
You didn't understand his suspicion of timmer. You said that:

Dom wrote:I still don't really understand why you suspect Timmer tbh
I agree that Marmot's initial vote for Boomslang was logically backwards given his stated timing beef. Independent of that Boomslang vote though was his suspicion of timmer -- that's what I'm talking about here. What made Marmot's suspicion of timmer hard to understand, and how does that compare with your current suspicion of sig?

Dom wrote:one where I didn't mention I suspected him less than two hours before.
Two hours is a long time. You voiced suspicion of him well earlier than that too. Why did it matter today?
TBH it's that I skimmed the thread at that point and just wanted a summary. Too many posts. So I asked for one. I have since determined that I think MM is civ and I no longer care about his reasons for his old Timmer suspicion.
Comments on it not making sense are attributed to the backwards nature of the suspicion. If you continue reading (this is the third time I have told you to actually go back and find the facts on this rather than presenting half of them), you'll see that I even apologize to him for not realizing he had corrected himself.
Any reason why you leave out key details here?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:I also do not like how this discussion has been made about sig.

I posted earlier that WilgyTeeth was my biggest suspect. I don't see why the focus on him has waned.
My current discussion is not about sig, it is about you. The current flow of the dialogue does not change the tally, sig has no votes. What is your concern with this?
My concern is my attention is away from Wilgy-- my biggest suspect other than you.

Wilgy-- where are you in your catch up/what are you doing to catch up? What can I do to help you understand the accusations levied against you? I want you to have a shot at defending yourself, but I also think you are very likely a baddie
This reeks. Wilgy can't defend himself. He's a replacement.

Wilgy has said he will catch up and post his thoughts. I understand he might not read detailed, but I'm awaiting those thoughts before I vote for him. Perhaps that will convince me to not vote for him.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:No. You are very much misrepresenting that situation.
I criticized MM for voting Boomslang instead of timmer in that instance. I called his logic backwards and that if he thinks timmer is bad because of his return, then he should vote for timmer-- not for his suspected teammate.

But that's a detail you failed to mention here.
You didn't understand his suspicion of timmer. You said that:

Dom wrote:I still don't really understand why you suspect Timmer tbh
I agree that Marmot's initial vote for Boomslang was logically backwards given his stated timing beef. Independent of that Boomslang vote though was his suspicion of timmer -- that's what I'm talking about here. What made Marmot's suspicion of timmer hard to understand, and how does that compare with your current suspicion of sig?

Dom wrote:one where I didn't mention I suspected him less than two hours before.
Two hours is a long time. You voiced suspicion of him well earlier than that too. Why did it matter today?

TBH it's that I skimmed the thread at that point and just wanted a summary. Too many posts. So I asked for one. I have since determined that I think MM is civ and I no longer care about his reasons for his old Timmer suspicion.
Comments on it not making sense are attributed to the backwards nature of the suspicion. If you continue reading (this is the third time I have told you to actually go back and find the facts on this rather than presenting half of them), you'll see that I even apologize to him for not realizing he had corrected himself.
Any reason why you leave out key details here?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:I also do not like how this discussion has been made about sig.

I posted earlier that WilgyTeeth was my biggest suspect. I don't see why the focus on him has waned.
My current discussion is not about sig, it is about you. The current flow of the dialogue does not change the tally, sig has no votes. What is your concern with this?

My concern is my attention is away from Wilgy-- my biggest suspect other than you.

Wilgy-- where are you in your catch up/what are you doing to catch up? What can I do to help you understand the accusations levied against you? I want you to have a shot at defending yourself, but I also think you are very likely a baddie

The only reason why I haven't voted Wilgy yet is because I want to give him a fair footing in this game.

I also do not like how this discussion has been made about sig.

I posted earlier that WilgyTeeth was my biggest suspect. I don't see why the focus on him has waned.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:EBWOP to fix the quotes...

Also for Dom:

Dom wrote:
Metalmarsh89 wrote:Question for the masses.

I make arbitrary and nonsensical votes, and nobody gives a shit.

I catch something I find suspicious and vote based on that, and people do give a shit.

For those of you whose read of me matches up with these statements, why is it so? I don't understand.
When you find things suspicious for nonsensical reasons like you did today it's a bad look.
MM's suspicion of timmer/Boomslang on Day 1 was timing based -- one player was absent for a time until his name was spoken and he reappeared. MM found this suspicious, and in this post you call that suspicion "nonsensical".

Now, you're calling sig suspicious because he reappeared after a period of absence soon after you mentioned the possibility of voting for him.

What is the fundamental difference between your suspicion of sig and MM's suspicion of timmer in these two scenarios?

No. You are very much misrepresenting that situation.
I criticized MM for voting Boomslang instead of timmer in that instance. I called his logic backwards and that if he thinks timmer is bad because of his return, then he should vote for timmer-- not for his suspected teammate.

But that's a detail you failed to mention here.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:Jay do you think his return is a bit oddly timed?
No. I think he showed up when he showed up. What kind of timing wouldn't have been odd?

one where I didn't mention I suspected him less than two hours before.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Question for Dom:

Dom wrote:Sig's last post was on day 4.
I mention that I am thinking of voting for him and he shows up within hours.
Suspicion of sig was voiced before this phase during sig's period away from the game, and he didn't conveniently appear at those times. You made sig a minor emphasis during your own insanified period, Dom. I'd assert your comment here is more opportunistic than sig's appearance is convenient.

And that's an overstated point. I GTH'd him bad in a code. I didn't make any further post on him like that on Day 5 (I think it was day 5).

I do think that's convenient. And i find it overly defensive that he won't acknowledge that convenient returns to a game can be considered suspicious.

Jay do you think his return is a bit oddly timed?

Jay - why aren't you on the poll?

Quin, why do you think Trice thought JJJ as the SK?

3J-- who is bad?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Dom wrote:I think MM is a civ.
Why?

Dom wrote:I think Epi is a civ.
Why?

MM
because BWT/Wilgy is likely bad imo and jumped on that train late-- waiting for timmer to move first. People mischaracterized his behavior while insanified.

Epi
I think he has had genuine suspiciouns and solid trains of thought throughout the game. i can understand his positions and think he was ganged up on needlessly. I don't think he is bad for these reasons.

sig wrote:
Dom wrote:
sig wrote:
Dom wrote:Sig's last post was on day 4.
I mention that I am thinking of voting for him and he shows up within hours.
So im what lurking for days, and screwing up the game, and my chances of winning, by not voting, but decide to show up since you mentioned me? Get real, your either mafia looking for an easy lynch or not thinking.
Screwing up the game by not having been lynched and us not having lynched a baddie yet? How would you be screwing up the game?

You've never seen a case predicated on someone who appears when their name is brought up (I mentioned I'd like more scrutiny on you earlier) suddenly appears? BTSC partners alerting them to the pressure they're now facing? That's really just so absurd to you? You're also not even my top suspect. When insanified, I GTH'd you as bad. I don't know why you seem so 1)outraged and 2)defensive of some basic pressure on you.

sig wrote:Looking over GMAN thing we literally have the same people mislynching and leading the lynches over and over again.

I'm eyeing Epi, Dom, and MM due to his list, but plan to ISO them and see what I see. I had some suspicion of MM, but nothing to lynch on before now though we have almost lynched MM twice, failed both times lynching civs instead and the people who were pushing his wagon were killed by the mafia. I want to try and lynch MM this phase again. Looking back the cases and points made against him are good , but like I said I'll ISO him at some point.

Also I'm not saying it isn't possible, but it is unlikely that both insanfiers are still alive. I think one is faking it.

Also there comes a point where if we have to lynch silenced/insaneified people then that is what we have to do. Especially if the mafia is doing it to their own.
Why are the curses the same every time if both insanifiers aren't alive?
You haven't voted in days, and you come in here pointing fingers-- make a case if you're so outraged. Don't just scream about it.

I think MM is a civ. I am a civ. I think Epi is a civ. You think we're bad because of G-Man's analysis? Why did you leave out BWT/Wilgy? Is he your teammate?
Purposely not voting would be screwing up the game in a fundamental sense and be extremely unfair to the other players and the host. So it would be screwing up, "pointing fingers" that is kinda how you play the game.

Also yes it is really that absurd, that you somehow think I've been active in a scum chat, but not playing or logging in for what five/six days? Keep in mind this would also mean by power has been in limbo and not used if I was mafia, unless your goign to say I logged in sent Pms but then left. Also you provide no reasoning for MM/Epi being a civ, BWT/wilgy hasn't been up for a lynch twice and you throwing in the teammate thing makes little to no sense. I think I nailed the remaining mafia in my post, one of which is you and you're in panic mode. I also think you were hoping I didn't come back so you could get me lynched today. Which you're still attempting to do.

@JJJ I've been skimming over since I went afk, but mainly my reads are based around my previous thoughts, the voting records, and the last phase.

I think you've been busy. I think you've been okay with it because your team has been doing okay. It's possible. I don't know why you are so defensive here. I am simply bringing up the possibility. Why can you not fathom this? This is far from the first time this has been been floated and far from the first time it might be successful. Please take me seriously.

Please read my psot history before you accuse me of not having reasons for my convictions. Then, after that, please feel free to question me.

MM, please respond in translated code.

Yes

No

Civ

Bad

Maybe

sig wrote:
Dom wrote:Sig's last post was on day 4.
I mention that I am thinking of voting for him and he shows up within hours.
So im what lurking for days, and screwing up the game, and my chances of winning, by not voting, but decide to show up since you mentioned me? Get real, your either mafia looking for an easy lynch or not thinking.

Screwing up the game by not having been lynched and us not having lynched a baddie yet? How would you be screwing up the game?

You've never seen a case predicated on someone who appears when their name is brought up (I mentioned I'd like more scrutiny on you earlier) suddenly appears? BTSC partners alerting them to the pressure they're now facing? That's really just so absurd to you? You're also not even my top suspect. When insanified, I GTH'd you as bad. I don't know why you seem so 1)outraged and 2)defensive of some basic pressure on you.

sig wrote:Looking over GMAN thing we literally have the same people mislynching and leading the lynches over and over again.

I'm eyeing Epi, Dom, and MM due to his list, but plan to ISO them and see what I see. I had some suspicion of MM, but nothing to lynch on before now though we have almost lynched MM twice, failed both times lynching civs instead and the people who were pushing his wagon were killed by the mafia. I want to try and lynch MM this phase again. Looking back the cases and points made against him are good , but like I said I'll ISO him at some point.

Also I'm not saying it isn't possible, but it is unlikely that both insanfiers are still alive. I think one is faking it.

Also there comes a point where if we have to lynch silenced/insaneified people then that is what we have to do. Especially if the mafia is doing it to their own.

Why are the curses the same every time if both insanifiers aren't alive?
You haven't voted in days, and you come in here pointing fingers-- make a case if you're so outraged. Don't just scream about it.

I think MM is a civ. I am a civ. I think Epi is a civ. You think we're bad because of G-Man's analysis? Why did you leave out BWT/Wilgy? Is he your teammate?

DrWilgy wrote:
Dom wrote:There are three players in contention for my vote today:

DrWilgy
Wilgy replaced BWT, my top suspect. I want to give the Doc a chance, but jeez, BWT looked bad to me. Prove me wrong, Doc.
Perhaps you could let me know why before I prove anything?

I thought you were catching up today.

i cannot write a large post right now, but scanning my posts and MM's might give you a good idea of why.

Epi, does Christmas symbolize something to you?

Sig's last post was on day 4.
I mention that I am thinking of voting for him and he shows up within hours.

There are three players in contention for my vote today:

DrWilgy
Wilgy replaced BWT, my top suspect. I want to give the Doc a chance, but jeez, BWT looked bad to me. Prove me wrong, Doc.

LoRab
LoRab's game, lately, has not been what I might have expected. What I am most freaked out about is that she doesn't seem to have much conviction this game. If BWT/Wilgy flips bad, then I would put her as my next top suspect. If not, then she stays relatively low on this list. As of now, she is least likely to get my vote of these three.

Sig
Sig only appears when he is under pressure.

hey sig where you at?

this blows.

wilgy-- have you read anything?

You have more faith in people than I do.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:@G-Man, I think trice is considered a civilian. His role is revealed either when he's checked by Motherfucker/Redeemer, when he is lynched, when ALFOTHAD dies, or when recruited. Since it was revealed upon trice's death, he could not have been recruited (I think we all realize this lol).

But also, the setlist has him listed in pink and green, which are the Indy and civilian colors respectively.

The role literally says independent.

LoRab wrote:
Dom wrote:If 3J checked trice when he named him, the role would have gone public and it would have been obvious what happened.
My own thinking is that the SK knows that Jack knows his identity, but that the SK doesn't know Jack's entire role description. You seem to be assuming the opposite.

I get why you would vote 3J, but it just seems to be a set up to me.

If the Sk just knew who he was, why wouldn't he recruit him on night one?

Epignosis wrote:I understand that if birdwithteeth gets lynched and comes back bad I'm going to get shit for it, but I don't care.

birdwithteeth11
4
Metalmarsh89 (2), JaggedJimmyJay (9), Scotty (11), Quin (12)

Quite a party.

MM, who survived a lynch in a game where the civilians can skip a Night, block all actions including the kill, have BTSC and potential BTSC, a serious numbers advantage, among other abilities and secrets, is the first to vote birdwithteeth (a guy who apparently hasn't been around). If birdwithteeth is bad, I'd still say MM threw him under the bus (keep in mind, MM is the sort who Night killed his own teammate before).

The second is probably the serial killer and despite what he tells you, doesn't care who dies.

The third is a guy who has hardly been around.

The fourth is someone who recently subbed in, and whose best judgment was to keep a killer around simply because he posts "useful" things.

None of these votes seem well-informed or well-intentioned.

Not all of these people can be bad.

LoRab wrote:If 3J is the SK, then didn't trice break the rules of the game by info dumping?

Since when did this start regularly bearing conseuqnces?

If 3J checked trice when he named him, the role would have gone public and it would have been obvious what happened.

G-Man wrote:Dang. I wasn't told who I was subbing in for beforehand. I thought it would be a low-poster. Nope! I sub in for Sockeface McMotormouth.

Can anyone give me an objective take on where you all stood on MP? I'd like to know where I'm bellyflopping into this game on the spectrum of super-civ to prime lynch candidate.

I'll pull together what I can from the votes but I have no intention of reading the game thread in full. Heck I may not even have time to read through MP's ISO to gather all of his thoughts.

i think mp was civ

i am going to have an extraordinarily busy weekend. I won't really be around tomrorow.

get 3j today. get rid ofa kill.

triceratopzeuhl wrote:
timmer wrote:Im going with trice now. BWT earns a single day for potentially being silenced, I don't want to vote him if he truly can't pit.
He's not silenced, sleep killed last night

VKB

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
timmer wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:For what it's worth I don't recall seeing BWT or sig around here this phase, posting in this game or otherwise.
I thought someone said they saw him lurking?
Yeah looks like Scotty said that. Could be.

IK

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:For what it's worth I don't recall seeing BWT

VKB

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:or sig around here this phase, posting in this game or otherwise.

IK

timmer wrote:Im going with trice now. BWT earns a single day for potentially being silenced, I don't want to vote him if he truly can't pit.

IK

timmer wrote:BWT was very active yesterday in the game and now, with votes piling on, is suddenly absent, which I don't like. He can't be silenced since sleep is killing now, so this is either very unfortunate timing with him being busy or he was hoping by not posting we would swerve away from him. Not liking the situation, either way.

Dom wrote:
sig - VKB

VKB

Scotty wrote:On the flip to side voting for someone who possibly can't respond is- if my mind was already headed in that direction, I'm sorta kinda wanting to vote there anyway, and it's not even something he can respond to. It's the way he has operated in my read throughs. It's like stuff would happen and as I was reading like 10 pages behind his posts would seem insincere and stick out like a sore thumb.

Ima put a bandaid on that thumb.

bwt

Linki: I still don't see trice as bad

VKB

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Thanks Dom. Am I right to assume IK is "good" and WKB is "bad"?

IK

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: as well as the other recent quiet people like sig

VKB
VKB

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Dom, could you provide GTH reads with your code?

birdwithteeth11 - VKB

Epignosis - IK

JaggedJimmyJay - IK

LoRab - VKB

Metalmarsh89 - IK

MovingPictures07 - IK

Sloonei/Quin - IK

Scotty - IK

sig - VKB

timmer - IK

triceratopzeuhl - VKB

timmer wrote: However, I like lynching the person who looks bad first and the partner second, thus BWT gets my vote, but I'm not 100% on this.

VKB

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