The Syndicate

FZ. wrote:I can't say no to Splints and MP

I'm in. Hi everyone

^_^

Keys should play

I hate to do this, but there's no way I can keep up with this game. :/ I am out, Boo. I apologize. I will be missing out.

thellama73 wrote:I'm not crediting Hitler's rise to power to democracy, I'm saying that he was able to rise to power legally within a system that was more or less democratic, insofar as people could vote for their representation. The point is that people always act as though allowing the people to vote someone insures against tyrants, when this is manifestly not the case. Americans have been told for decades that we have to bring democracy to the Middle East as if that will suddenly eliminate oppression and violence. But I digress.

I think we might be on the same page.

thellama73 wrote:Did more than 17 million people vote for Hitler to be Chancellor or didn't they? I rest my case. :P

No.. they did not. Hitler received no votes for Chancellor because Hindenburg appointed him to be the Chancellor. This gave him quite a bit of power in addition to his paramilitary forces he had recruited since 1923. As soon as Hitler became Chancellor he called for the dissolving the Reichstag and new elections. In addition, his paramilitary forces used violence against competitors in the elections of 1933. After the Reichstag fire, Hitler requested that he be able to use parts of Article 48 of the Weimar Constitution to restrict civil liberties and use force to suppress opposition. He did so. The Communist party had, effectively, no chance of winning any real power in the election-- not because of their policy being unpopular, but because the Nazi Party had essentially banned them (which they later did the day after the election). The violence and intimidation used heavily impacted what candidates could be voted for and were voted for.
Yes, the Nazi party received 17 million votes in the election of 1933. However, Hitler was already Chancellor when it happened. Hitler had total control of many facets of Germany at that point. He had a small army at his disposal. The people of Germany were hardly free to choose a party.

This is a criticism of a parliamentary republic, not a democracy. The elections were hardly free and fair. I don't see how you can credit Hitler's rise to power to democracy in Germany.


Not that I'm an advocate for a strict democracy-- just saying.

Dom wrote:

thellama73 wrote:He received more than twice as many votes as any other candidate running. I think the point remains valid.

Without getting into an intense debate about the rise and fall of totalitarian powers, it's pretty clear that the Nazi party used heavy amounts of German history... the Nazi party used a lot of violence and intimidation methods to gain support. They set fire to the Reichstag for Christ's sake! In addition, Hitler was appointed Chancellor in 1933 by the President of Germany. The Nazi party had the most seats, but lacked a majority. They only took power because other parties failed to unite against them. Hitler made himself dictator through the Enabling Act-- something that passed the Reichstag with Nazi soldiers literally about to storm the building.

Nothing about Hitler's rise to power was democratic. Democracy is by no means perfect, but it also did not contribute to the rise of Hitler.

Unless you consider the majority of France's population wanted retribution against Germany for WWI and that put pressure on the talks in Versailles to be excessively punitive to Germany... because that was a huge part of Hitler's rise to power.

thellama73 wrote:He received more than twice as many votes as any other candidate running. I think the point remains valid.

Without getting into an intense debate about the rise and fall of totalitarian powers, it's pretty clear that the Nazi party used heavy amounts of German history... the Nazi party used a lot of violence and intimidation methods to gain support. They set fire to the Reichstag for Christ's sake! In addition, Hitler was appointed Chancellor in 1933 by the President of Germany. The Nazi party had the most seats, but lacked a majority. They only took power because other parties failed to unite against them. Hitler made himself dictator through the Enabling Act-- something that passed the Reichstag with Nazi soldiers literally about to storm the building.

Nothing about Hitler's rise to power was democratic. Democracy is by no means perfect, but it also did not contribute to the rise of Hitler.

thellama73 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

Long Con wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Vompatti wrote:I used to be a communist when I was a kid.

What have you become now?

A nihilist.

Nihilists! F*ck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

National Socialism is not that bad. At least it doesn't have all that dreadful democracy.

Hitler was democratically elected, so you actually have kind of a good point.

No, he wasn't.