The Syndicate

woohoo!!! yayvteam I'm so proud of you all!

sd thanks for a great game! as for snow dog, I guessed early on that he was the cheat, so we knew not to target him until we found his protector.

:

Spacedaisy wrote:Six out of fourteen voters is unacceptable. Anyone who missed the vote will start the next lynch poll with plus one to their name. I will add another vote every time you miss one from here on out. I have been a very forgiving host, but this is where I draw the line.

Rezz me and I'll vote every time.

Insert witty dead person remark here.

so I'm guessing that I touched a bit of a lazer, I mean nerve, by bringing up dp and mentioning how svs and juliets were quick to support him?

I hope sd will count my vote.

wtf? I thought day was ending later so didn't tune in. way to ambush.

I'll vote svs please! !!

Dammit, my brain is seeing conspiracies everywhere. I look at this game, and we have absolutely no handle on the blue lazers, like, at all. I mention that DP sounds convenient in his quietness and right away I've got two people chiming in that this is his regular civ game. Two very smart people.

it's all so conspiratorially convenient.

In comment to BDH, Borok has moved in and out of my radar all game, even while I was camping, really. So he may not be a bad lynch candidate, at that.

@SD, considering we don't have a lot of votes etc. yet maybe later would be better, I think, but that's just me.

Reading back, I'm strongly considering voting for DP. Every single post of his is either jokey or an apology for not posting more.

And this post is almost an admission that he's just jumping on whatever bandwagon there is:

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:Well I likely won't be awake for the lynch, so I'm just going to vote A Person since I'm seeing his name thrown around so much. I'll do some form of reading tomorrow.

I'd ask others to read back through DP's posts (it won't take long) and then tell me if you think he's coasting or truly just absent-ish. I don't want another wasted lynch, but I feel like DP's posts are a bit convenient.

I thought gleam was dead?

FWIW, I lean civ on Dom and BDH.

I need to hear more from a lot of people: dp, svs, Borok, df, lt, indiglo, and also I don't remember much from Matahari lately?

I'm now officially at a loss about the remaining Teen Squaders, and Blue Lazer is likely made up of quiet blenders, considering how little luck we've had cracking them open.

i notice that A Person has quieted way down since taking heat, which may be worth looking into.

In short, I've focused on MP for so long that I'm now unsure of my bearings.

Mongoose is on the poll...?

Quiet is especially hard to read.

Vomps essentially just said "ture" all game and was bad. in another game, he could do the same thing and be good.

the way I look at it, a playstyle that deviates from the norm has to be weighed in terms of how much its helping the civs. Like, Vomps really didn't seem to care about anything, so feeling badness in his posts became easy after a number of days. If Vomps had been a civ role and played like that, I'd blame only him for his death, you know what i mean?

Basically, if someone is a civ and decides to be non-participatory, they are hurting their own team, so why are they here? It drives me crazy.

Certainly, please do read back through my posts. I guess the problem with how much Alex posted, and how many people he mentioned in each post, is that it all inevitably started sounding like he was just talking to talk. He never really honed in on one person but kept sort of hedging. It sounded bad to me, but then it's not the first time I've made a case on someone that turned out to be wrong.

I too have to continue to read back. I had wondered about Mongoose, who is now dead, and Vompatii who I ended up being right about, at least. I never read the parts that made people suspicious of gleam so I'm still a bit in the dark, there.

sorry for beong so absrnt guys I'm on the last of five extra long shifts.

I'd haved alex obviously.

on that note, dude when I get home later I will find a hat and eat it since I very cleatly was dead wrong.

Great result!

so... yeah. I'll be saying MP is bad until I'm proven right or wrong, from here on out. Even on Day 1, I could see that he was being too posty and distracting and taking the spotlight. He's the perfect cheerleader.

Here are his mentions of Vompatti. I bolded the key words. See if he ever, even one time, seriously considered voting Vompatti, (except for Day 1) despite talking about him a lot.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I don't have time to fully catch up currently, and won't likely be back for a while, but Mata, to address your concern: I said I was voting Vomps to see what would happen.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
I even acknowledged that I disagreed with gleam and was not AT ALL latching onto his suspicions of Vomps. I just wanted to see what would happen when Vomps had two votes and there had only been three votes made. I felt it might have give us information more than any other option I could do at the time. If you disagree with my methods, fine. Go ahead. But I'm playing this game in a way I can best throw off the baddies and help accomplish my win condition. If you feel that makes me baddie, vote for me. But no one has one explained to me how my Vomps vote even makes me baddie. Even if Vompatti had been railroaded and lynched and flipped civvie, he could have been a sacrifice that led us to sorting out which players bandwagoned onto him nefariously and we could have nabbed a baddie on Day 2. There was any possible way it could have turned out.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Mata, regarding Vomps... I really don't know. He is quite hard to read, despite the fact that I know him. I don't feel that great about it, but I m far from convinced of his baddieness.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I am open to other topics though too, like hedge, or maybe even Vomps idk about him, or even others... But idk.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
At this point, I plan to vote Hedge if at all possible. if I have to save in a specific set of circumstances, I guess I might vote AP or Vomps even (seems very unlikely).

MovingPictures07 wrote:
I need to mull on things and see which players should be analyzed because we definitely need to look elsewhere in addition to BDH, Vomps, A Person, et al.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Also, I don't know who any of the baddies are right now. I do suspect BDH, I'm starting to wonder about Lizzy and a few others, but I feel like I'm still (and we in general, as a thread) are shooting in the dark right now, because llama and I were major suspects yesterday (both not bad), Hedgeowl was obviously not bad, no idea on AP, and no idea on Vomps (but he only had 2 votes).

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Dom, any reason why Snow Dog and Vomps?

MovingPictures07 wrote:The only two I'm really unsure of in that regard are BDH and Vomps, I'm really unsure of them.

MovingPictures07 wrote:BDH, very nice points and summary about Vomps. He seemed to always believe Devin was bad though (which made no sense to me). I was really hoping someone would go back and look at Vomps's behavior. I glanced at his voting record but that was about it.

I never really could tell too much with him this game because he seems mostly like his normal self. However...

I think what's REALLY notable is that you pointed out Vomps said this:

Vompatti wrote:To be honest I think Borokkuei would be playing this way even if he was civ.

And now he's saying borokkuei is "still" at the top of his list.

When you add in other actions of his... it makes an interesting case. Not convinced, but I could see a Vomps vote being wise for sure... and I just might vote for him.

Did you notice any other behavior too or was that everything right there?

MovingPictures07 wrote:And as to him being Trogdor... it's possible. But for some reason I'm thinking, if Vomps is not civvie, he's more likely a baddie. But I won't complain either way.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
JC, as to Vomps being more likely baddie than Trogdor... I suppose he could be Trogdor, but his behavior seems more likely indicative of a baddie than Trogdor. I think Vompatti would send in his PMs if he was around, and he has been.

Unless Vompatti can give a satisfactory answer to the observation regarding his change in mind re: borokkuei, I'm pretty sure I will be giving him my vote.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Vompatti looks pretty bad. His explanation saying he didn't say borokkuei was civ (he said he would play the same if he were civ) and that he is "unpredictable", in addition to all the behavior BDH highlighted, showcase a likely baddie Vompatti. I do hesitate just a bit because he can play really weird games, regardless of alignment, but I think he is definitely a quite likely baddie at this point.

That being said...

Snow Dog wrote:I'm coming full circle and thinking of Mp as bad again. Which totally would let BDH off the hook for me. I gave him the bernefit because other players said he was civ. I got my eye on you Alex. You keep me close it seems and then you seem to hang me out and say hey SD agrees with me,that is suspicious right? If you are civ then agreeing with you shouldn't be a problem. I think you are trying to hard MP.

Votes MP

You know what, Snowie, this is the most well-illustrated point I've seen all game. I think I agree.

votes MP

Linki with Vomps: Lolwut

Two things. First, I had to trim virtually every one of these posts because MP mentioned on average about 12 players in each post. More than half of his posts are walls. So he's managed to mention Vomps over and over, but do you see the pattern? It's always "yeah, hmm, maybe, but I'd like to hear more about this other guy". Every post is a subtle "meh" or attempt to ask about someone else.

But secondly, the damning part is that last post. The lynch was close, no one had a big lead in votes. And after saying what he did in those last few posts, MP.... votes for himself.

Why would he do this? Read his posts. This was "quite likely" a baddie Vomps. Vomps had MAYBE a 2 vote lead in the poll at the time, I'll have to check. And MP votes for himself in a clumsy sort of "oh, did I say something weird?" way. Note the "linki" at the end. He hadn't finished posting when Vomps said what he said. MP could have changed his mind but vote for himself anyway.

Why?

I think it was a last ditch attempt to try something, ANYTHING, to make people look away from Vomps. Because why not? If I'm rigt, MP is the cheerleader, and thus wouldn't have died if he were the lynch leader. So he tried one little try to sway the thread, after saying Vomps was almost certainly bad. It's so obvious to me. MP has talked about EVERYONE in this game without ever saying ANYTHING. And this string of posts is all of the proof i need.

He's the cheerleader.

thank you.

After my read last night, I'm going to put a vote on Vompatti.

And people realize the poll closes in two hours, right? There's hardly any votes!?!

With that, I'm out for the night.

Whoops, hadn't meant to hit submit yet. To continue...

The Devin votes.

Yes, I agree that some of Devin's posts sounded odd, but as I tried to point out while camping, Devin ALWAYS sounds too wordy and gets flak for it. So I'm not a fan of these:

DFaraday wrote:I think I'm leaning civ on Llama at this point, although like I said, I never know with him. And I agree that Devin's comments def sound planned. I'm going to go ahead and *vote Devin*

Mongoose wrote:I'm voting to Dev because he's been pinging me the most. I think Llama has adequately convinced me that he's not Troggie so I'm going on Dev today. I'm not really feeling MP as bad so far. And I'm unsure about Borok but he is new and I am giving him the BOTD.

Sorry Dev ole chap, you know I like ya

* Votes Devin*

linki - DF and Llama too. Well this is good to look suspicious. Ha.

Snow Dog wrote:Was thinking of a Devin vote too but now it'll look like a bandwagon.


linki..whats up with that..two more votes!!!

Mongoose wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:Was thinking of a Devin vote too but now it'll look like a bandwagon.


linki..whats up with that..two more votes!!!

Ugh I know, when I was first writing my post, he hadnt had any votes yet!
The acronym for Animal Sanctuary Squad is quite unfortunate.

Of these, i dislike Snow Dog's post the most. Like, if you're a civ you decide who you think is suspicious and vote him. If your vote happens to get sandwiched between others, so be it, you think that guy or girl is bad, right? So vote! This idea of fear of voting for your main suspicion because of how it will look is... pingy to me. Like, if you want to vote Devin but now you'll look bad so maybe you won't? You don't sound civ.

As of now, I'm thinking there is a large concentration of bad to be found amongst MP, Mongoose, Vompatti and increasingly at this point, Snow Dog, though I still hesitate for some reasons from early game. Also, Borok is a big HMM for me, I'd love if someone could tell me his playstyle from his limited other games. And DF and DP are still strong Trogdor contenders imo, going by their quietness, distance between posts, which is a bit different, and the initial hut vote.

I'll note that over the last two pages i readback through, MP has no pingy posts. Part of that is that he started posting less, but my feelings about him have at least plateaued.

Good crappity crap, Day 2 gets seriously convoluted.

To be brief: Matt F came up with a lengthy idea about backroom chats between three players, juliets, Dom and llama. I applaud him for the theory, I'm often happy to let my mind run rampant through a conspiracy theory and publish a tome about it.

What was interesting about it to me wasn't the theory per se, but some of the fallout from it:

Vompatti wrote:I read the above post in its entirety and am thoroughly impressed by it.

Vompatti wrote: I find Matt F's case for llama & Dom & juliets worth considering, but I wasn't really suspicious of llama before so I'm not sure what to do. I'd like to hear from those who haven't posted lately.

Vompatti wrote:Llama, who are you going to vote for? I know that Matt F's theory is a bit random but honestly it's about the only theory so far. BWT's vote [for llama, notes Timmer] kind of came out of nowhere though, so I do see this as a possible bandwagon which I hesitate to hop on.

But then something happened. Devin got a vote.

Vompatti wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Tired of waiting. I'm voting for Devin too.

The same.

So Vompatti liked Matt's random theory, but only about two of the three people in it, not llama. Then asks llama who he will vote for, and makes a weird comment about hesitating to hop on a bandwagon. Well Vomps has been pretty clear that he's not leaning towards llama being bad and just sked him who he will vote for in the same post, so why comment that he doesn't want to touch a llama bandwagon? And then Devin gets a vote and Vomps just, with apparent relief, jumps onto the bandwagon.

I don't like ANY of this exchange.

Ok, finally back to reading through. I just finished page 8, which is the start of day 2.

There's a lot ot OT stuff so observations from this one are limited:

But I do want to point this out. Day 2 started out in flux with lots of names going around. Hedge had a fairly standard case to fight: a vote pattern that showed a possible link to a baddie. Hedge said this:

Hedgeowl wrote:I guess that is partly what I am struggling with right now. How does anyone explain a Day 1 vote without it sounding weak? The top vote getters were Bullz, Elo, and Vomps. I didn't have suspicions on anyone for Day 1 and everyone else had voted as the only voter for other roles knowing none of these people would be lynched and therefore they wouldn't feel responsible. Even MP claimed this with his vote for Vomps. Although he was the 2nd voter.

My decision was do I vote for someone and throwaway my vote because I know they wont die? Sure, I could have done that, but I decided to see what happened if I tied the vote. (I have since been informed by Bullz, that Epi only does this in polls and its not normal. But Epi has hosted 2 of the 7 games I have played or am playing so its my "normal") That's it really. I was hoping no one would die and we'd get more time, but of course I knew I would be a target the moment we all learned who Elohcin was. I understand why everyone thinks I could be her teammate and I have said this from the beginning.

If you lynch me I totally get it and no hard feelings, but certain roles might want to save a rezz for me later. (Doh! That's Dom's game. There appear to be no rezzs in this game)

YOU DO NOT WANT TO LYNCH ME!

And then fairly quickly we got this: (trimmed for brevity)

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Call me a sucker, but Hedgeowl's defense seems genuine to me.

thellama73 wrote:Well shoot, I was just about to post and ay that Hedgeowl's defense sounds really sincere and I am rethinking my vote against her, but now MP's post makes that sound opportunistic and fake, so I'm not sure what to do.

juliets wrote:Well, I can definitely say I'm rethinking a vote for Hedge after her post. I agree it did sound genuine.

Snow Dog wrote:I am also satisfied with Hedgeowl's answer.

Matt F wrote:
Also, and boy, I admit, Hedge's defense regarding her vote for Vomps sounded genuine.

birdwithteeth11 wrote:
Hedgeowl's defense definitely strikes as genuine to me about Vomps. However, the whole thing with Elo still makes me unsure. Either you're telling the truth, or you're doing a very good job as a baddie. And it's making me question you.

While I agree that Hedge's post sounded genuine, and obv we now know she was civ, I find this run of posts bewildering. None of these players had BTSC with Hedge, none were specifically saving her. But that many people just pulled off of her for the lynch? And I'm not even done, the next page of my readback could have more... so would both baddie teams have been avoiding the Hedge case? Not likely. it was easy, it made sense, it had a vote behind it, the best kind of case. There HAD to be some baddies in there.

What I'm getting at is that a lot of these posts sound too easy. Like baddies knew there were three names being bandied about, maybe none were on their team so they just happily were hopping from one to another, they didn't care. the ONLY post in the bunch that showed some hesitation is BWT's, who I've gotten civ vibes from.

So who could be bad in the bunch? Well you know how I feel about MP, i won't retread that. I think BWT's post sounds the most civ. Matt F has sounded pretty solid so far. Snow Dog is a bit of an enigma. I felt very early that he was likely a certain role based on some things from early game. But now I'm wondering if I ignored certain other possibilities, if Snow Dog was gutsy. It's something to stew on, I need to read more before forming that better. Juliets is always tough for me to read. Her posts on this page sound bad, tbh, but i hesitate because juliets' posts ALWAYS sound bad to me, and she knows that I say that every game lol. llama has seemed civvie. So this page offers me more questions, and no answers.

One separate thing:

Matt F wrote:

borokkuei wrote:Man, I am so behind. I wish I had the time to read over all of the pages of posts so I can figure out who I hate. I guess the safest option now is to hate everyone and vote at random, eh?

I see you only have seven posts total at the forum, five in the game. In one of your posts, you agreed with me about looking at new players on day 1, are you new at mafia?

Looking through your posts...you haven't really said anything.

What are your thoughts in the game, so far?

I tried to ask this while camping, all garbled, but *is* Borok new? It strikes me that Matt may have been onto something here. Would a new player make a comment about looking at new players? I've got to hope more comes of this as I read, but Matt may have caught something here, did this just disappear? To be continued as i read page now.

Hey guys, life's been busy for a few days, I'll be back in force tomorrow!

True, SVS has been incredibly absent.

borokkuei wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Now who's unlynchable, Cheerleader Gleam?

Don't forget that the blue laser commander is also unlynchable. He could be either. What makes you think he's the cheerleader over the commander?

that's not how I read that role.

Hmm. So looking at the roles, agleam could be the cheerleader, homsar or homestar runner if he used his day where he could be unlynchable (or am I misreading that role and that can be done more than once?). By his own admission, agleam isn't unlynchable, so he has ruled himself out of being homsar. So is he homestar and he timed his unlynchable day beautifully, or is he the cheerleader? I'll have to read back either way.

Looking back, agleam had made a few nothing posts in my readback and then this one, which may be of interest...

agleaminranks wrote:...wait, was no one burninated by Trogdor? Or is that post coming later?

I wonder if agleam is Trogdor and was confused about why their kill wasn't mentioned??? We'll find out soon enough!

Oh, I see the problem, I've crossed leamiteo with agleaminranks, lol?

So at this point in my readback, I don't think I've even seen a post from agleam yet that I can remember... they get added to the possible trogdor pile, then!

i didn't realize the vote was here already!

So obviously leam (everyone says gleam? but I don't see a g?) is going down today so I'll have to hope you guys are right, it seems the lynch is based on comments I haven't gotten to yet. FWIW, she's on my list of quiet potential Trogdors, so I don't see this as all bad.

Gave a token "I'm still eyeing you" vote to MP.

Incidentally, I've got to hit the sack, but in an effort to summarize where I'm at in my "look beyond MP" plan, I'll just briefly say that Borok is difficult to read and seems confused, or maybe is just new? I think I even asked that while camping, so this isn't new from me, really.

also, in the sense of finding a quiet, frequently absent player who could be trogdor, I'll point to DFaraday and DP who I haven't seen much of anything from in my read through yet. Also, leamiteo. he (she?) has gone long stretches between posts, so maybe they could have missed some PMs, however, his (her?) posts sound fairly civvie, whereas DP and DF have been more neutral.

Also, Vompatti doesn't seem to be contributing much beyond the word ture, which I'm sad to have to ask is a deliberate misspelling of true?

Anyway, more and hopefully more helpful posts tomorrow.

LittleTiger wrote:Hello all! I need to read the thread.... I'll post any thoughts etc as I get into the game! If anyone has a summary to share, it would be most appreciated!

LOL, my best advice> Don't try to read it all straight through, I'm mired in Day 2 and honestly, I've never seen a game as post-y as this one.

You guys all know where I stand on MP, and one hair behind on Mongoose (based on where I'm at with my readback). I've got 48 hours, so I'll agree to shelve the MP talk for the day and continue reading with the intention of studying other players instead. If by the end of the day nothing has turned up I've obv got my backup vote planned, but yeah I can't make my entire stance in the game be whether I'm right or wrong about a single player, or two.

And Alex, maybe you should step away from the game for the day, you do sound kind of frazzled, buddy.

And one last bit I had put separate because its OT:

bea wrote:
and the phrase "secret event" gives me crazy ptsd about being trapped in a chat room for a weekend searching for flags..... *kicks wabbit.* if the secret event is something not going on publicly, I'm glad to be in the dark about it.

Good christ, I spent so many hours searching for that flag. that was... awful. But memorable!

Page 7 of 20, the end of night 1, start of day 2.

So Trogdor picked the hut with Borok, DP and Bullz, and Bullz died. unless Trogdor cannot actually kill himself, I'd say that puts Trogdor in the Medicine Hut group, or DF in the third hut, but I don't see DF exposing his SK-ness by starting a third lone hut, so I assume Trogdor is in the Medicine group.

Next, Bea removed from the poll (and I think i was later on as well), have we figured this out? As of this moment, I assume no. Moving on...

okay, now here is where MP and Mongoose are going to hate me again, but look at this set of posts (bolding mine):

thellama73 wrote:I have been a little suspicious of Mongoose ever since Day One with her crazy, distracting theories. I am looking at a Hedgeowl vote today because I believe she was trying to save Elo with her vote timing, but I would not oppose people voting for Mongoose as well.

20 minutes later...

MovingPictures07 wrote:
As to who I'm looking at today... I'm actually feeling a bit wary of llama, as much as I hate to say it. My gut is screaming baddie on him for some reason half the time I read his posts. They just don't read like civvie llama to me. Sorry, llama, I know that's hard to defend against, and it's far from saying I'll even vote for you today, but my gut feels most strongly about you independent of evidence.

As to Mongoose, I'm not leaning strongly on her one way or the other; she can be kind of hard to read. That said, I think I might lean just 1% civvie, but am very unsure. I think I find it a bit hard to believe she would act the way she did with Elohcin in thread if they were teammates; it seems too buddy buddy and obvious. I don't think they would have interacted like that and drawn so much attention to both of them, especially throwing out the wacky theories. I could be wrong, but I doubt I'll be giving her my vote.

llama is suspicious of Mongoose and MP is suddenly suspicious of llama. How interesting. And MP sees Mongoose as only 1% civvie but isn't leaning one way or the other?

Oh, and soon after that:

Mongoose wrote:
linki MP - I'm a little worried about llama too. He knows I am acting the way I normally do and he knows better than anyone what I'm like as a baddie (I'm referencing the game he hosted).

But you guys aren't teammates.

That's really it for page 7.

okay, page 6 out of 20, now. The Trogdor poll.

First off, DP opted to go it alone without any explanation at all. Then Bullz joined him and had a Maths argument:

Bullzeye wrote:
If everyone is in the same hut then it's just a randomised kill that could get anybody. Having several big groups split across huts just seems like the better idea to me.

Next item of note was this:

Mongoose wrote:
Maybe - but DP and Borok also voted for that option after we all Clowncar'd into Medicine Man, so I'm not sure what was up with that either. SK wouldn't have BTS with anyone else, so I don't know how to interpret that. Or maybe people voted without super duper knowing the ramifications of their selection?

First, Borok, I'm guessing from this, jioned the Warrior hut but didn't post about it that I can see? Secondly though, and this made me truly LOL, the term "clowncar'd". That's brilliant.

next, this caught my eye:

A Person wrote:
i was somewhat hoping to see if the killer would/could choose to go after a hut with one person in it so that the kill is definitely a civ one.

also, if a hut is incinerated, is it gone forever q.m.

is this a slip of some sort? Like, does A Person know his whole team voted Medicine Hut, and thus he sees it likely that a loner in a separate hut would be a civ? Weird post, and this def. puts A Person on my radar for the moment.

And lastly for this page:

DFaraday wrote:I think I'll go to the Town Drunk's tent. It's less crowded over there. Maybe more dangerous, but meh.

So we've got DP, Bullz, Borok and DF so far who opted out of "clowncar-ing". I see it two ways. One, there are roles who, especially on night 1, knew they couldn't die so maybe one or two of these names are people who tried to wreck Trogdor's NK. Second of course, one of them could be Trogdor.

Can Trogdor randomly kill himself if he picks the hut he is in? That could make a player ballsy enough to pick a different hut.

Moving to the next page...

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Why would you even post all of that then if you were so unsure and barely knew anything? Why say I was just being suspected for being posty? Why not just say that you were on vacation and barely knew anything?

I did mention i was on vacation, several times. And in a very limited read of the game, at one point it did seem like you were getting heat for being post-y, so I mentioned the fact (that you've admitted) that you've been knocked out of games for being wordy before. There are a lot of people in this game i don't know so I figured it was good to mention it. But now, with the ability to properly read back through every post in the game, I've read your posts properly and they actually on Day 1 sounded like you made a slip and then tried to cover it (with some help) with talk of theories.

I was attempting to keep current as best I could, but the wifi out there was horrible. I didn't want to have to bow out, I can't stand doing that to hosts, so i tried my best to stay in. But dude, you built your entire reason for voting against me on two things (correct me if I'm wrong). That my case against you contradicted that one post where I said you get heat for being word-y, and the fact that I thought you were bad. Or was it really just the first thing. So after saying I got back from vacay and could finally read properly, you think that because my thoughts now, reading through, differ from a shitty attempt at reading back a tiny fragment of the game while camping, that I'm clearly bad? That's weak!

And never any offense taken man, I love the sparring!

What really bugs me is the way you keep saying "oh gosh golly gee well just lynch me then, le sigh" which sounds exactly like what a baddie would say if they were the cheerleader.

Honestly, if after reading my posts you had come in with a "well Timmer hasn't even finished reading Day 1 yet, so I'm sure he'll see he's wrong once he continues on" I'd have had real hesitation about you, because my reading HAS only encompassed Day 1 so far (Day 1 with a bit help from retro-knowing Elohcin's role). But instead to kind of NO U me with what you said? You just made me feel more sure, man.

So I've now read thru Page 5 out 20, which almost exactly takes me to the end of Day 1.

First off, based on their votes in the lynch, i think it is safe to say that none of Kate, juliets, or reywaS are/were Teen girl mafia. The only suspicious vote that came thru was Hedgeowl's, which tied the poll up between Elohcin and Vomps right near the end, but she was civ, so really, the Day 1 lynch just seems like a miracle. A baddie lynched on very little (most people just didn't like the way she randomized?) and no apparent side action to save her. I'll bet her team was stunned at what had happened!

So at the end of the Day 1 readthrough, I've got baddie feels from MP7 which aren't helped by his responses today (he never responded to any of my accusations or comments but instead pulled posts from when he knows I was barely following the game to try to find contradictions in what I had said. Civs respond to accusations. Baddies redirect to make someone look bad for speaking up)

Hopefully I'll get through all of Day 2 tonight.

Voted MP.

Guys, you should frankly disregard every post I made while out on vacation. I was never able to get enough wifi to read more than one page before I lost my connections. I was never able to get a good read on people at all. I barely knew anything. My posts, as of last night, represent me joining this game for the first time, so yes there might be some contradictory things between my posts now and the mixed up handful of posts earlier.

Note though, what MP did. He did address a single thing i said in my case against him last night. Not one thing. He went back and found my earlier posts from when he knew I wasn't in the game really and found contradictions between them and now. He NEVER directly commented on my case.

Remember rule #1, kids.

MP is bad, I'll stake my reputation on it.

Okay, Page 4 out of 19.

First off, (and this shows how out of touch I've been), Alex, my condolences on your loss, that's terrible news.

Next, that obviously being kept apart, I see Alex as having expertly used a "poor me" tone (before his bad news, to be clear, here) to bring up early deaths in past games to save his ass here. I'm more convinced with each page that he is bad, so far.

Also, I'll add Leamiteo to the list of seemingly civ players. Especially with posts like this:

Leamiteo wrote:And another thing on the fishiness of MP wanting conversation to stop, if he is indeed a baddie and baddies have BTSC, then he knows the other baddies that had info. Assuming this, could it be that he was wanting to see who else got the info, other than the baddies? And he was intrigued by the two different methods.

Rule #1, for the new kids, when you're a baddie and you need to defend yourself against a decent case, is to find the one little part of it that is easiest to defend and then defend ONLY that as hard as you can. Thus, trough all of Alex's posts on page 4, there is not one mention by him of how he pushes for info and then pushes for NO info. not directly. But, since a couple of players had mentioned how he seemed controlling, he posted a TON about that. A representative defensive post:

MovingPictures07 wrote:And Elo, I'm very sorry you found me as rude, but I never had any intention of coming off as such. You just had clearly not caught up by the time you posted, as you were asking for other people to share their info (or maybe you had and just disagreed with me... which is fine), and so I spoke out of urgency because I did not want to contribute to the potential outing of civvies. Regardless of what anyone thinks of my hackbrained theory... on the off chance it actually is true and at some point we lynch a player who would be outed in the off chance that it is true, it only possibly confirms everything, which only helps the baddies more than it does us.

But anyway, I apologize for that. I suppose I know better now to "control" the thread. Maybe I should have just spent hours on my Sunday studying instead and not bothering actually contributing, like other 'helpful' civvies who will last until Day 10 because they follow the crowd and don't put themselves out there.

It's all about the controlling piece, but nothing about the info/no info piece. He never mentions the flipflop.

A sort of aside:

Snow Dog wrote:MP. I find it incredibly hard to believe that an experienced player like you would ask for people to say if they got info and then when he got answers remembered that it wasn't a good idea to admit to info after all!
I stuck my head out to assist the civvies, as did Bullz and now others ar5e told not to do the same. I feel like I've been hung out to dry to be honest.

You were, Snow. You totally were.

And finally, Rule #2 in defending yourself is to get your teammates to talk about the specifics that you want to avoid talking about specifically yourself. Let's bring up Mongoose again:

Mongoose wrote:I know a lot of players have expressed concern at what they call MP's "flipflop," but I didn't read it like that. I think 1) some of us were uneasy about talking specifics of the information game ab initio and 2) he had a lightbulb moment when we all started putting tangible theories together and realized how dangerous it was to keep following that line of questioning.

I don't mean to sound like a politician, but for me, it's not changing your mind if you receive more information (and this can come in the form of having an epiphany based on what facts you have at your disposal).

I really don't think an MP vote today would be prudent.

Is that not a teammate? I think it is. I am very comfortable, as of page 4, in thinking that mp7 and Mongoose are Eloh's teamies.

with that, I'm heading to bed. I'll continue on tomorrow.

Okay, here are thoughts from page 3 of 19. (Keep in mind this is still day 1, and no one has voted yet, from what I can see)

First, I get civ vibes, as of this point, from BDH, thellama, Snow Dog, BWT, Matahari and Hedgeowl.

Second, to me it seemed pretty clear that Snow Dog was just having some difficulty explaining himself about info, but that he and bullz were essentially saying the same thing.

Third, MP7. Reading through chronologically gives an interesting sense of time. When people were first confused about Snow Dog, MP got a bit excited and sort of quietly threw the idea out there that snow Dog maybe was bad and could be a lynch target. but chronologically it is easy to see that the idea of lynching Snow Dog, or even that he was lying was a non-starter and MP expertly reined himself back and over to the pro-Snow Dog side with aplomb.

Posts of note (some trimmed to keep this post as short as possible):

MovingPictures07 wrote:Either way, I want to hear more from Snow Dog and Bullzeye, if necessary, and I even more so want to hear from other players regarding whether they did or did not have information.

Sorry MP, you can't tell me the danger of requesting info hadn't occurred to you.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Bullzeye, I agree entirely. I'm still a bit hesitant because I'm not sure if it's because Snow Dog just misrepresented what he was saying, but it seems it could be damning.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
I agree. Looking back at Snow Dog's posts, it's a ballsy move... but one that I think he would consider doing as a baddie. I'm very intrigued by this development.

Llama, you know Snowie well, is there anything you can think of that would clear him or is it perhaps that we misunderstood his posts and he wasn't clear enough? This wouldn't be the first time I would see Snow Dog lynched for unclear wording or for people misunderstanding what he was trying to say.

That being said, we could have come upon a scenario where Snow Dog is definitively baddie, and as such, I'm thinking maybe we should all just vote for him today and go from there.

Here MP even acknowledges that Snow Dog has struggles with English but still promotes the lynch idea heavily within the same post.

MovingPictures07 wrote:I looked back at Snow Dog's posts and read them all in order, and it seems there is a misunderstanding regarding the word "info". I think I get it now.

I'm not so sure he's a baddie caught in a lie. He could be... but I think he's telling the truth, assuming Bullzeye is. Not sure it means both are civvie... but I hesitate.

MovingPictures07 wrote: As such, I think it would be fruitful to avoid lynching Snow Dog or Bullzeye, because if we lynched one of them and they came up King of Town and Strong Sad, we'd have a double edged sword. We could propose that certain players could be certain roles based on this information, but so could the baddies.

The very fact that this could actually be exactly what happened scares me but also is very thrilling.

I don't think I want to lynch Snow Dog or Bullzeye today.

I don't buy any of this. I think MP tried to get something going and then reversed course when no one bit.

Now here MP started being very "hey everyone let's be quiet about the info, everyone be quiet!" but then Eloh posted this:

Elohcin wrote:
About the info, I think the whole thing about 6 players getting info as there were 6 options would be logical if Snowy hadn't received info *before* the pole. It would be nice if everyone who had info would let us know they had it and whether they received it before or after Day 0 poll ended, or both. We could put a list together of who had info and when and what option they voted for. Thank you SnowDog for giving us what you could

MP then posted after this, big posts, replying to several people but not saying a word in reply to this. And then, afterwards, posted this to Elohcin:

MovingPictures07 wrote:One last post because I happened to see it.

Elohcin: Catch up before posting again.

That's it? You've fully come around to the logical stance that discussing info is a baddie-favouring move and Eloh wants to make freaking LISTS and all you say is... catch up? If MP is a civ here, he'd be all over Elohcin for that. Or at least say more. This reinforces the idea of them being teamies.

And finally kudos to mata for this:

Matahari wrote:Trying to catch up-
first, happy bday Alex! My bro's bday is also the third, his daughter on the fourth, my sis in law the sixth, mine the seventh, and to make a long story longer, we have 12 bdays from mid July to mid August. All the celebrating is in my tiny apt. because someone has to be with my dad all the time. So it's her, or else I miss out on family fun. And cake.

So anyway, I'm in three games now and trying to keep up. I noticed that elohcin and mongoose were talking about the possibility of the number 6 person on the poll needing to be voted, although I don't agree that a host would ever out a player, I didn't think they were necessarily pushing it. But later mongoose posted this:

linki - MP: Yeah, I threw out something a little crazy, and then you brought it around to something more sensible. Eloh and I were just kinda thinking aloud. Maybe you or someone else would have taken that "illogical" reasoning and tweaked it or added to it to achieve something more cogent.

This also might not mean anything but I am wondering how mongoose can be sure of what elohcin meant.

I hadn't even caught this as I read it. That post DOES sound like there is a suggestion of BTSC. I'm holding still to the Mongoose as a possible baddie idea here.

Christ, just an addendum. I'm frantically trying to reread and catch up in two games, and I'm getting them a bit crossed. I've got Mongoose penciled in as a baddie in the OTHER game I'm in, not this one. Mainly, from page 2, I get the sense of MP7 being bad, with Mongoose a possible baddie as well, but MP7 is much more the dominant figure there. my perception of Mongoose was getting coloured by my opinion from the other game. I stand by what I wrote, though, I think Mongoose could be bad here, but MP7 is more sure (so far, this is after all only page 2 of 19)

okay, holy shit, Page 2 = so much words!

First off, page 2's development with Snow Dog admitting to getting some info when castle won puts a slightly different spin on the stick voters from page 1. if, as he said, he needed his option to win but didn't have to actually vote for it, then any number of voters of other options may have seen that their option was winning and just parked their votes whereever. thus, no real help from page 1.

second though, and this is the big thing I pulled from page 2, is that constant barrage of posts about theories around the number 6. MP7, in particular, posted a TON, as did Mongoose who I do not trust, and Elohcin who was bad. So did Hedgeowl and thellama but they were not so much pushing the banter as commenting on it from the side, if that makes sense. I got a distinct sense of MP7 trying to post a lot here. Now, MP7 has posted a lot all game from what i can see, but it all accelerated right at a key point. What I look for is, did someone just say something they want to hide or push off of the page? I have my games set to have 100 posts per page, but i know a lot of people have it way less, so posts disappear for them faster.

Here's the twopart punch that precedes Mongoose, Elohcin and MP7 going nuts about theories about the number 6:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Thanks for the birthday wishes!!

Daisy: Are we allowed to discuss anything pertaining to the Day 0 poll results (or possible lack thereof) of which we may be aware?

MovingPictures07 wrote:All I want to say regarding the matter is that I had no information on the poll, and thus it did not factor into my decision, and I have not received any benefit at all from voting Castle. It seems, based on the fact that Daisy's only post was the answering machine one, that there is no publicly-made result of the Day 0 poll either.

Given Daisy said "those with info may not reveal what they were told", that makes me wonder. There had to be some outcome of the poll; I just have absolutely no idea what it was. I was kind of hoping voting Castle would allot me to receive something, but nothing happened.

I thus am not sure what to conclude.

Those two posts don't fit together right.

in the first one, MP seems to be asking a straight-up question, but the syntax of it suggests subtly that he got info. in the second post, after SD says yes, people can say they got info but not what, suddenly MP is crystal clear that he did not get anything. It doesn't fit right. I think MP maybe expected SD to say no, people CANNOT talk about the poll, period, and then he could sort of suggest subtly that he knew something, but suddenly, anything he said could be a misstep and he pulled back from it hard.

this is important to me, because of the three people who led the "number 6" theory talk, one is bad, the other I THINK is bad, and the third id mp7 whose posts above smell funky. Mp7 is the creator of the parchment, people. He loves making up crazy shit and manipulating a thread when he is bad.

and a bit of a demonstration of how mongoose seems fishy as well:

Mongoose wrote:RE: The newest video (Marzipan's Answering Machine). This video shows Marzipan having 6 messages. I checked other answering machine videos, and they all start with different numbers of messages left on the answering machine. I think we need to analyze with this particular video was left for us.

I have a few theories:

• * We must all make at least 6 posts today or something untoward will happen
  
  * Up to 6 of us will be chosen to leave a message for Marzipan (although we can kind of do that in the chat already by saying "Dear Marzipan...") but maybe this will be 6 PMs that the host sends to only Marzipan.
  
  * To show Strongsad digs Marzipan (I guess we know at least one person doesn't have a nut allergy, har har) , but he is rather incompetent about executing this.
  
  * The (almond) cake is a lie. The video means nothing other than ambiance.
  
  * Other?

That said, I think we should all try to make at least 6 posts today of substance. I wouldn't think they would need to be very long, but probably have some on-topic goodness in there. What do you all think?

linki - lotsa MP

really? that's filler.

Also, thellama comes off as civ on this page. i like posts like this:

thellama73 wrote:
Agreed. I don't want to be seen as squashing discussion, but I find all this off the wall hypothesizing by Elohcin and Mongoose as suspicious, like they are trying to distract us from the baddie hunt.

And then back to MP7. If, we assume that a baddie would not be the first person to speak up about getting info, and we also assume that certain key roles would be obvious choices for getting info, the last thing a civ wants to do is get the guy who admitted to getting info to talk about it. At all. Like, to me, the best thing to do is leave the guy alone, otherwise you get people thinking about it and you paint a target. but instead MP7 posts this:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:
OK. I had info

Yes, an interesting development at last! Thank you for sharing.

Now you voted for Castle. Let's make a set of assumptions on your behalf. Assume that my intentions are exactly as I have laid them out to be. I do not expect you to assume them to be; mafia is about skepticism, I would be shocked if you trusted me, especially so early on. But let's assume I'm being entirely truthful. I had absolutely no information, voted for Castle, and yet nothing happened, yet I claim to be on the civvie cause. Others have said the same (thellama73 and Mongoose both seem to follow this as well; speak up, either of you, if I am wrong here).

Now, please, without discussing whether you received anything as a result of voting Castle, and I'm going to assume you voted the option that best seemed to suit your interests because that is only logical to assume, can you perhaps elucidate as to whether you believe the six options corresponded to anything regarding alignment; OR do you think my theory regarding six different players receiving a corresponding 'option' that benefited directly only them (but by extension, also the other players who share their alignment) to be a possible explanation for what occurred; OR do you think neither of those is true and we're seeing something entirely different?

This feels like MP was trying to get something out of Snow Dog that would give him a clue to his role. He's fishing.

I'll close this page with a comment pulling it all together. Elohcin was a Teen Girl Squad member. If I'm right about Mongoose and MP7, I think there is a good chance from page 2 that they are as well. And their first kill, on night 2, failed it seems since only a trogdor kill was in the night post. Wild theory time: they tried to kill snow dog but it failed because smart people realized the heavy chance that he is a civ.

I'm only just starting my page 2 read, but right off the bat I see this post:

A Person wrote:I would watch the video if my computer were capable, I can't remember that particular one just from looking at it either.

But I know the stick is a great meeting place, especially when you're looking at a thing in a bag, so maybe we could meet there.

That reinforces in my mind that there was a distinct push for the stick going on. Back to business.

okay, so I've been so absent, basically from day 1, that I'm starting from the start. That's 19 pages. And for those who know me, I tend to like trying to spot the minutiae that gets buried under the avalanche of posts, and apparently this game has been pretty avalanche-y.

I just finished Page 1 of 19.

One thing that caught my eye was that in the Day 0 poll, Vompatti several times made reference to At The Castle being a likely civ choice, but, even after Bea pointed out that people could move their votes, Vomps left his vote where it was.

Posts like this feel like Vomps didn't want to move his vote at all (keep in mind the stick was in second place in the poll by my count)

Vompatti wrote:
I suppose I could change my vote if the stick or some other none-castle option suddenly starts getting a lot of votes, but right now I don't think there's any need to.

Not only that, though, but lizzy replied to his post with this:

Lizzy wrote:Haaaaai!
:O The site was down for me the other day, and even now it is a tad laggy.

Anyway, I've heard a wombat in distress, so here I am (rock you like a hurricane k).

And the bird's got a point: the stick is indeed a great meeting place, if you catch my drift.

Now, this is written very joke-y, very LOL, but it reinforces the notion I get that vomp and Lizzy were kind of hoping the stick would manage an upset.

That's all for Page 1. moving on.

I just got home from holidays about an hour ago. Let me get everyone settled and the kids to bed and later tonight Operation Readback will commence!

of all tge nain voregetters tge onky one acting odd to me is a person. but then I see that tgere is a baddie who cannot be lynched until teammates are dead so naybe a person is trying to save a friend with his antics. and considering how thellama pronoted a persons oddness at first it makes sense he is the friend. voting llana.

I know I've been pretty absent from this game (4 more aays abd I'm home!) but I've got to ask is df playing? and who is lixxy,

a bit of good wifi finally...

some comments about recent oosts whike this kasts...

I think bdh is wrong about mp. I don't really know bdh or his game byt mp is always this takkative imo. I'm not sure what vdh is seeing is vad.


more than that I'm now confkicted abiut devon. he seems to have gone from a lynch target to being so goofy that now ge isn't? or am I misreading? I have fekt that this is normsl devon chattiness/goofiness byt now that people aeent looking his way as much I'm paradoxically tirn. will hope this gets through.

oy, that came out wrong.

A Person wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

A Person wrote:ture, but it also benefits everyone else who sends in a PM

Which is why it would be a good plan for someone with BTSC teammates to suggest.

ture, but even if I had BTSC I'd still think about lying to my teammates, so I'm sure others would as well.

you would lie to your reammates?

I'm atill on spotty wifi so can't look back but did a person realky suggest not sending in a hut? that's an odd suggestion.

voted borok. I think llama seems ok and mp is getting targeted for being posty. devins posts sem weird a bit but I can remenver other ganes where I voted him for tgat and he was civ. I stuck with borok because sonethibg about hus oosts doesn't feel right to me. will be on the road today.

has antone gere pkated with borok before? he claims newby card andt offers a perfect no u in tgat his onkt suspect is the guy who suspect ed him? is this just normal newb gane to others?

also I'm not feeling vaddie llama this game. now to wait for a bar to show up so I can post this...