Turnip Head wrote:MovingPictures07 wrote:JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I dig it. And I don't dislike open setups. I have much less experience with them, but they're just as fun. The obvious cultural differences were probably what drew me here the most. The only standard here that I think I'd genuinely struggle with (and haven't seen yet) is the one that doesn't allow dead players to win the game.
You want to talk about this rule? Let's talk about this rule.
Where's Golden when you need him? :P
I've never been a fan of this either, but I always assumed it was just something that was up to the host. Most civilian win conditions require surviving to the end. Something like the "Epic Challenges" from BR and LC's recruitment game could see play as alternative win conditions for each role, perhaps only requiring that you play your role well to win... which requires a different kind of skill than just surviving.
It is definitely up to the host. In earlier games where I didn't allow dead players to win, I only did so because I was under the impression it was the norm, and never considered otherwise.
I think achieving the right balance between individual effort and team effort is key here, and I'm incredibly excited to see how the "Cygnus Coins" system works in RUSH Mafia, since I think that system's success (or failure) will determine how often I use similar systems for awarding wins in the future. To summarize how I'm approaching win cons in that game, wins can be achieved individually, regardless of whether your faction wins, but you get halfway there automatically if your faction does win, retaining incentive.
In Death Note, I'm incredibly glad I allowed a dead win, but only under the conditions of achieving one's win con, which wasn't always straightforward. It was a good experiment, even if I made a few of the win cons pretty tough, hence why I gave boo his win even though he technically failed his win con (since Daisy had to kill Mata for her to win, thereby destroying boo's win con, since Mata needed to be alive).
I think the reason "dead wins" were never too typical, from what I would surmise, is due to the fact that it fails to actively encourage players to try their best and survive, especially since we've had problems with inactivity. On the flip side, the argument that civilians must look out for themselves at the expense of their team in order to secure the win ("I have to look suspicious enough not to die!") is a good argument, since such behavior is counterproductive.
