The Syndicate

Well done, baddie team! Apologies for failing out this game, folks, just don't have time to play mafia these days despite wanting to. Thanks for hosting, Draconus!

I realize I don't get a vote since I replaced out, but I'd have to give it to one of the baddies myself, or INH if a civilian. I'd probably vote Bullzeye or gleam. Usually for these MVP awards I've been running them via private submission to the host in fear of hurt feelings or arguments if they became public, so I'm glad to see you all keeping it civil. Interesting to see such a spread though. Hope to play with you all again more properly some time soon!

I don't understand why I'm getting votes. How else do you all propose we figure out Dizzy's alignment then? Anyone?

With that said, I think we should consider a policy lynch of Dizzy by Day 3, if not for Day 2, if he doesn't show up or get replaced.

Sorry I'm not talking, it's clear that I need to go back into mafia hiatus after this game, because my RL is getting more hectic with every day, a trend that I'm sure will continue as I start teaching tomorrow.

I like leetic's analysis so far and look forward to seeing more. I would conduct some myself but I just don't have the time right now to play up to anywhere close to my usual standards or playstyle, despite having more time at the start of the game.

I'm just going to vote now because I have a really busy two-day period ahead of me, and any free time I do get by tomorrow night needs to go to Transistor especially since I'm getting some major heat there.

I'm going to vote for sig because I think his d1 vote looks worst of anyone's.

DrWilgy wrote:Yo MP!

What caused your townread on leetic? What caused your townread on Ikanosis?

Actually it was mostly the conversation that leetic and Epi had regarding policy lynches; they both seemed genuinely interested in town's best interests with their viewpoints. It's tentative though and heavily gut-based until I have voting data and such.

I'm voting Silverquin. Sorry Quin, but I just can't get over Silver's behavior from earlier in the game before she exploded.

I don't have long, sorry folks, but a few more thoughts/questions:

@gleam: Can you elaborate upon your leetic/me thoughts? Sorry, you lost me a bit there. To elaborate, I am slight town reading those four individuals not purely because of their activity, but because of the fact that I have consistently seen it as genuine activity. I haven't seen any questionable behavior from any of them just yet.

So... with Goldy now wanting out and considering Draconus already had to replace two other people, if we're going to consider a low poster policy lynch, another option is policy lynching Goldy.

I'm not sure what I want to do yet. I'll do some digging later. Still too busy at the moment. What is everyone else thinking?

I'm currently really busy, so I'll be back to generate some juicy content either late tonight or sometime tomorrow before EoD.

For now, I have the following brief thoughts:

- I'm willing to tentatively throw out slight town reads of insertnamehere, leetic, and Epignosis/ika. I don't want to vote for any of them today due to their contributions, which all thus far seem genuine to me with respect to solving the game.

- I was going to slightly mafia read Silverwolf, but then she flew off the rails and I'm not sure what to make of all of that. Unfortunately for Quin, I still think Silverwolf was suspicious for latching onto the suspicion of me after ika started going after me as well as for her insistence of things that just weren't true (like that I was trying to get people to not form reads on ika, wtf?). It didn't read genuine to me, like instead she doubled down on aggressively pursuing me instead of recognizing she made a faulty point. I don't believe a town Silverwolf would fail to recognize when she was mistaken, but I'm not sure how confidently I believe that. I'd like to give Quin a chance, but... I don't currently have any other slight mafia reads and I'm torn between voting for him due to his predecessor's actions and going the route of a low poster policy lynch (as Epi suggested).

So... I'd like to see more from Quin (and many others), in an attempt to better direct this Day 1 lynch if at all possible. I always feel torn on low poster policy lynches; I can pick up what Epi is putting down but I can also pick up what leetic is putting down, and I'd ideally rather lynch someone I'm legitimately suspicious of than someone who just isn't here, at least on Day 1. But I've also seen too many games here in which town was too hesitant to pursue low posters not only Day 1 but throughout the game, to their demise.

Welcome to you and Quin, by the way, thanks for stepping in.

I'm gonna leave now because I specifically didn't want to be at the computer. But I'll check back in sometime later tonight or tomorrow I'm sure.

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:That data is bunk, Epi, I never voted for rabbit.

I think you just want us to think that.

Ummmm... No.

That data is bunk, Epi, I never voted for rabbit.

insertnamehere wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm not ready to throw out a rainbow list just yet, but at least I feel comfortable throwing out one slight town read: rabbit8.

So...why did you vote for him?

It should be on Serge. It was, but since when Draconus reset the poll he added Epignosis it changed the vote distribution.

I support extending the day. In fact, Draconus, you could just remove the poll especially since ika and silver's are still on there and it seems the names are messed up, then set the new poll from 2 days from now.

Draconus wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:Also I seem to have the ability to edit my posts in this thread? That doesn't seem right. Obviously I have no plans on doing so but maybe MP or someone would like to know there seems to be a permissions issue.

I'm on this now, thanks for letting us know Bullz.

Hmm... Was that something I was supposed to fix?

Nope, no worries, I'm still training the OTT guys on opening and closing forums and other things; usually I've always done them. When a forum is re-opened, registered users need to be given very specific permissions rather than one of the preset groups, so that's what sometimes causes these discrepancies when certain check boxes are overlooked. It's why I hate permissions.

Oh, and glad to be playing with new folks (Goldy, leetic) too! Definitely don't want to leave that out.

Bullzeye wrote:Also I seem to have the ability to edit my posts in this thread? That doesn't seem right. Obviously I have no plans on doing so but maybe MP or someone would like to know there seems to be a permissions issue.

I'm on this now, thanks for letting us know Bullz.

Well, I wasn't even planning on being here today considering I worked about 40 hours from Sunday through yesterday and need a computer break, but I've skimmed what's happened here and just want to express that I think it's best if we move on from this situation and let the two replacements ease in. Hopefully Draconus can find them timely.

That isn't to say I think we should wipe away any reasons for mafia-reading either player, but considering the clusterfuck that has ensued, I think it's best not to bog down this game in unnecessarily unproductive conversation more than we already have, and I apologize for what role I played in that.

Lastly, I want to say that Draconus's host posts so far have been awesome, and I appreciate the work he has put into this game for us to play, as well as S~V~S for dealing with this unfortunate situation. Further, I am really glad to playing with old friends I haven't played with in way too long (rabbit and INH, Bullz to an extent too since it seems like Star Wars was forever ago), and you awesome regulars as well.

I will properly catch up and respond to things in detail later, but I wanted to at least say that much.

I'm not ready to throw out a rainbow list just yet, but at least I feel comfortable throwing out one slight town read: rabbit8.

I'd like to hear more from Serge.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I just realized... There's no cop in this game.

Sorry leetic, I lied.

Yo MM, got any reads or thoughts for me (and the thread)?

Yes, Silverwolf is scum.

How about them apples?

Elaborate please. How did you come to that conclusion?

Metalmarsh89 wrote:I just realized... There's no cop in this game.

Sorry leetic, I lied.

Yo MM, got any reads or thoughts for me (and the thread)?

For the record, ika, and everyone else, I apologize for what I "contributed" to the heated conversation before. Clearly I got caught up in an overly emotional exchange that wasn't quite necessary or productive. I'm hoping to shift focus going forward and make this as productive a Day 1 as possible. Help me make that happen.

From where I'm sitting, I'd say insertnamehere is the low hanging fruit of Day 0. ika, Silver, leetic, rabbit, and Gordy all expressed negative views of him. What do others make of that? Easy target or deserving of attention?

leetic, did you ever address this question? I'm afraid it too was buried in the... heated conversation.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

leetic wrote:So, this started? Well, reading over this. This is certainly more active than games I'm used to, so forgive me if I'm a little behind. insertnamehere has been a little pushy on ika, so he's a slight scumread.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Frankly I see no reason to throw out any reads just yet, even slight ones.

Why not? Reads are what you can use to gather information after a flip, at least that's the norm where I come from. Furthermore, they give you something to talk about, and read others further.

Why would INH's behavior exhibit a Mafia mindset? Explain it to me.

I'm all for generating content. Especially for the first couple years of this site when games were much less post heavy, I was sometimes one of the few or the sole player trying to generate a bunch of content on day 1. I give out my reads when I have them and I typically have them somewhat early. However, I don't have any just yet, and that's all that I am expressing in the quote above. If any of you have reads, I think you should express them, by all means.

leetic wrote:

sig wrote:There is a very strong chance the mafia are lying low as the civs squabbled so early in the game.

Is there anyone who hasn't posted yet/hasn't posted at all? They'd be good starts.

Post counts:

ika 60
MovingPictures07 44
Silverwolf 21
insertnamehere 19
rabbit8 16
sig 12
Metalmarsh89 11
leetic 7
DrWilgy 5
Bullzeye 3
Dyslexicon 3
Serge 2
agleaminranks 1
Bass_the_Clever 1
Goldy 1

Seems to me everyone has posted. That's 15 out of 15.

sig wrote:That MP vs Ika/SW clash was fun to read /sarc :P

I still subscribe to my Ika/MP theory, but it is more of a tinfoil idea right now.

There is a very strong chance the mafia are lying low as the civs squabbled so early in the game.

Why? You seem to be doing a 180 here, despite simultaneously saying you are still subscribing to your MP/ika theory (us both being bad and distancing).

That makes sense, INH. Let me know what you find, if anything.

Silverwolf wrote:I'm feverish again and will be laying down for the rest of the night-Just an FYI

Feel better soon!

Let's direct the conversation elsewhere.

What do people think of this post by Goldy?

Goldy wrote:Yo! I'm in front line.
Fighting in frontline is better than any other option I think if it really helps to kill a titan, while doing nothing is most scummy thing but on other side helping to evacuate people is much likely neutral thing.

I've slight scum read on insertnamehere but I don't know what's up with sig? Though this is my first time here so I don't know much about everyone play style or regular things.
I'll try to help as much I can.

Also, Goldy, if at your soonest convenience you can elaborate regarding your scum read on INH, that'd be great.

Thanks rabbit. I agree that it's a plausible theory, though I'm not willing to call ika civilian just yet. I'm not sure what I think of INH's commentary... you raise a good point, but in contrast I'm actually reading INH as genuine if I listen to my gut. I try not to put too much stock in my gut though because it sucks.

Hey INH, unless I missed it (if so, I apologize), you haven't yet addressed this and I'd be interested to hear a response:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

insertnamehere wrote:Can we address the fact that the baddies are probably sitting back and laughing their asses off right now?

Alright, so let's move the conversation in a more productive direction. I'm tired of being upset over the current discussion myself, and I'm accomplishing nothing.

If you think this statement is true, then it can be surmised that you're tentatively town-reading the active members of discussion (you, me, Silverwolf, and ika), yeah? That means you potentially have already narrowed a d1 voting window. Do any of the players currently sitting back warrant specific attention? If so, who?

Thanks!

rabbit8 wrote:Okay...

Can I get a clarification on the relationship between ika and Sliver? From either of the two, not someone else, please. Don't need anything personal but you know, context. Most of this argument is gibberish to me.

I can't agree with either side..... Hillary vs. Trump.... Lesser of two evils, still evil. (INH )

ika, I play my gut and would never discount a player who listens to it. However, your delivery, please.

MP, less poor me, would be appreciated. You sound frustrated. Your arguments been made. I don't think anyone other then Silver, who seems, and I have no context here, to be piggy backing on a gut reading from a player (something more?) Silver reads well is planning to lynch you. If that gets you lynched on day one, sir, you need to be more persuasive.

INH: I don't like this post from you:

insertnamehere wrote:Can we address the fact that the baddies are probably sitting back and laughing their asses off right now?

You we're involved in the argument. Dropped out pretty gracefully. Then you made this comment. Seems off to me.

rabbit, your input is appreciated. Yes, I probably sound frustrated because I am/was frustrated.

Regarding your point on INH's post: Do you not like his theory itself (do you disagree with it), or are you merely not liking the fact that he left the argument (and not expressing disagreement with that theory)?

Silverwolf wrote:OK MP, Just because I expressed a mild scumread on you and said I would vote for you based on your posts to that point, doesn't mean it can't change. Read should be fluid and the game just started. My read on you was not because I was defending ika, even though you are hinting that it is. The main reason I was slightly scumreading you was because it appeared to me, you were trying to keep people from generating a read on ika by telling everyone not to scum or town read him based on his behavior, telling ika all his reads were bogus, telling everyone that no one should be having reads right now, etc and basically making it harder for people to come in here and try to get reads or have a discussion about it.

My point is, even if it's nothing but gut, reads give us something to talk about. They generate discussion. So I see it as slightly scummy to be so concerned about that right now. You can disagree with the validity of those reads, but I don't see a reason to dismiss them outright like you did.

Anyway....................

Silverwolf, thanks for elaborating. I wasn't entirely sure what was causing your read of me; now I understand. I think we're misunderstanding each other. Apparently, I conveyed my thoughts badly; this is something I think I've already addressed but I'll address it again, quickly. That post you refer to about reads:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Frankly I see no reason to throw out any reads just yet, even slight ones.

I was referring specifically to my own reads here. Not anyone else's. I believe I said this to leetic when he already made the same point against me as a minor scumpoint. I'm all for you all throwing your reads out there and encouraging discussion of those reads; I personally don't have any yet.

I didn't "dismiss" any reads outright. I even interrogated ika about his reads twice, but it became apparent quickly that they are "gut" only. I give no stock to gut reads when the player who throws out those reads fails to at least give something to back them up; I'm all ears when/if he elaborates upon any or all of his thoughts. If that's calling them "bogus", then OK.

Furthermore, I'm not trying to get anyone to not read ika. I'm not sure where you're getting that from. I merely expressed my own opinion about ika's behavior so far based on my experience with him.

If you're going to continue to scum read me, I'd like further elaboration or points to address if you don't mind providing them.

Anyway, I'm done here. This is beyond frustrating and we've accomplished nothing productive with this conversation.

ika wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:
If you can see her doing it as scum, then how on earth can you say it's a town read?

You think Silverwolf is a human being so predictable that you know exactly what observations she would make when given a town or scum role card?

ok let me tell you something out right, silver is the least predcitple person you can encaounter.

there is so much more then just "predicting" what she does as town and scum. i read what she post and look at the very mindset it comes from, i look at her agenda, i talk to her in game to sort her. it has 0 things to do with predcitibilty.

our very interactions in itself is what leads me to read her

pedit: again, let me respond to everything first, i will say that i am willing to lsiten to a lot of thing but when people go "NO" (how im perciving how your acting right now) im just gonna go full stop to it all.

agree to disagree is one thing, but how your acting and saying is "im wrong your right" and if thats the path you take i will fight the same

But this is exactly what I'm NOT doing. Go back and read what I'm saying to. Exactly what I AM SAYING is "agree to disagree".

ika wrote:@MP, let me chatch up and ill respond to that post proper.

I will be gone rather soon cus i got a 4 hr drive ahread of me and 3 10 hr shifts for the next 3 days. im not goign to be here as much as i liek so im posting what i can

That's fine, take your time. I'm going to leave again myself because I still have plenty of work. I'm not going to keep this circle discussion going though, so if I don't see any productive way to continue this upon my return, I'm abandoning it. It's just been difficult to do so because now I already have both you and Silver as likely people voting for me for reasons I cannot discern.

ika, maybe it would help if you actually gave the impression that you're listening to others, because I don't feel like you're listening to a word I'm saying. I'm trying to listen to what you're saying; if I've given the impression otherwise, that's not the case.

ika wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:Also, MP you haven't played that many games with ika compared to me. I don't think you have the authority to tell people how to read him or not read him.

You don't have any authority yourself.

she has full authority unlike you.

Fucking nonsense. I'm a player in this game as much as she is. I will gladly put stock in her opinion of you, given her intimacy with your playstyle and person, but that doesn't mean I have to follow it if I have reason to disagree. I currently have no reason to believe you're town or scum because you've done nothing alignment indicative as far as I can see, based on MY experience with you. That's my right to believe and project. You are not one to come in here and say I don't have the authority to make that assessment.

ika, I'm not trying to make anything personal, so I sincerely apologize if you feel this conversation is getting personal. You'll have to forgive me for getting frustrated because I feel as though if anyone ever questions you or Silverwolf, then they start getting scumread by either or both of you, because I've seen it happen in other games, and it's happening to me right now. You've said you had a "gut" scum read on me and you've not elaborated on it in the slightest, then Silver comes in and gives me the same thing, when all I've done is come in here and contribute and honestly express my opinions. I'm not trying to tell you how to play; I've said this. And I can't interact or gain any insight from you if all you do is throw out "gut" reads.

insertnamehere wrote:Can we address the fact that the baddies are probably sitting back and laughing their asses off right now?

Alright, so let's move the conversation in a more productive direction. I'm tired of being upset over the current discussion myself, and I'm accomplishing nothing.

If you think this statement is true, then it can be surmised that you're tentatively town-reading the active members of discussion (you, me, Silverwolf, and ika), yeah? That means you potentially have already narrowed a d1 voting window. Do any of the players currently sitting back warrant specific attention? If so, who?

ika wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Silverwolf, I've respectfully tried to get answers from him regarding his various reads, to which he's said "gut", so I said JUST THAT -- that I'd not put any stock in those reads if he cannot provide any elaboration, even if it is barely anything, in what I believe was a respectful manner -- and now you and I are both scum reading me for it. So it affects my survival in this game.

this is what i call bullshit, your survival is not needed. a game can be won, alaive or dead, the argument of that is fallicious.

I didn't say anything about winning. Go ahead then, lynch me Day 1 for basically no reason. See how accurate your gut is.

I have no problem with you, ika.

Silverwolf, I've respectfully tried to get answers from him regarding his various reads, to which he's said "gut", so I said JUST THAT -- that I'd not put any stock in those reads if he cannot provide any elaboration, even if it is barely anything, in what I believe was a respectful manner -- and now you and I are both scum reading me for it. So it affects my survival in this game.

Silverwolf wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: You think Silverwolf is a human being so predictable that you know exactly what observations she would make when given a town or scum role card?

I'd prefer not to have yet another game where this discussion is had. It gets really, really old.

It's his fault the discussion happens every game.

Well, my gut says the scum team is ika, Dizzy, Wilgy, and Silverwolf. Now everyone has to listen to me and consider it, and if anyone tries to ignore me, I will scum read them!

ika wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:Also, MP you haven't played that many games with ika compared to me. I don't think you have the authority to tell people how to read him or not read him.

^this very much

if anything wll send me to normal to IRATE RAGE is something like this. the only one who can ever say such things about em is silver herself. i can says oem people can understand me on a baseline but to have the audacity to say "ika does this as town and scum" is only a silverwolf thing

that also being said i now am town reading silver much more. i know if she was scum she would try to buddy me on only a few points, the fact shes going through length to defend me full shows me that she is wanting to work with me.

SIlver: got any more reads?

Bullshit. We're all playing the game and I'm allowed to give any opinion about anyone I want. I've had a certain experience with you, which seemed relevant to the conversation, so I provided it. Now you're discrediting me, ika. Stop discrediting me.

insertnamehere wrote:After a certain point, I just have to put my hands up and say "You do you, ika."

Mafia is a subjective experience for everyone, and everyone has their own ideas on what works and what doesn't. If what you do works for you, I say go with it and follow your dreams. It doesn't personally jive with how I play mafia, but that's cool. I'll just ignore what you say, unless you bring logic or some greater reasoning into it, and you'll ignore what I say, unless it passes the ol' gut test.

Friends?

QFT

ika wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:rabbit (and anyone else wondering), everything ika has said and done is characteristic of practically every game I've spectated or played with him. There's no reason to town or mafia read him yet, at least in my opinion.

but theres every reason to discredit me and act like you dont know how i normally play?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Frankly I see no reason to throw out any reads just yet, even slight ones.

why? what good do you get by witholding reads? its night 0 i got nothing better to do but share reads

I'm NOT DISCREDITING YOU. Stop it. Read what I'm saying and engage me in conversation. Stop telling me and everyone else that I'm doing things that I'm not doing. I don't care how you "normally" play; I was giving an observation based on my experience with you so far. Anyone can change up the "way they play" at will, so I don't put any stock in what you say you normally do. Only what I observe you "normally" do, and even then hardly any stock can be put in that. People should be judged based on their behavior in the current game.

Your reads are baseless. You've stimulated no constructive conversation with them, in my opinion, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me how to play.

ika wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

ika wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:I think MP seems unusually defensive this game so far.

i agree. im gonging to give silver a small town read right now

For what reason? Can't a town or mafia easily make this observation?

sure they can, but you should already know i know what silver woudl and wont do. notice how i said "small town read" its cus i can see her doing it as scum i am still catching up

If you can see her doing it as scum, then how on earth can you say it's a town read?

You think Silverwolf is a human being so predictable that you know exactly what observations she would make when given a town or scum role card?

ika wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Silverwolf wrote:I think MP seems unusually defensive this game so far.

I don't deal well with baseless accusations. And I'm a bit overly stressed right now. I hope I don't come across offensively because that's never my intention. I just did not sign up for this game to be lynched for next to no real reason; that's happened enough to me over the years and the wound is still there.

well, welcome to mafia. ill be blunt on this issue:

it doesn't matter i you got a wound about day 1 lynch or not. its a game of mafia and if for fun and enetertianment. if you can't deal with being a day 1 lynch then maybe you shouldnt play?

i have had my own set of "always being lynched day 1" too, even worse, i would be blatantly right on people then bluntly ignored then and left alive for endgame. thats a fate much worse then day 1 "policy lynch"

ive had that as well where i would be gone and only come back to be turbo lynched, ive had that 3 seprate time, 2 of witch where i called out the scum accurately and then went on to see town lose.

So fankly i dont give a damn about your wound, and if you take offense to this then sorry but not sorry, thats mafia for you and thats the blunt truth i have for you on that said issue

I'm not responding to this. Get over yourself.

ika wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

ika wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

ika wrote:read lsit
so metalmarsh can be town
sig is obvious scum right now
MP i would lynch as well.

to do list
silver needs to eb sorted soon.
figure out names meta, relookign its null

For what reason? Nonsense.

"Guts" you say. Unless you can back up any of your assertions with reasoning (such as "this post made me feel good about so and so because...", even if the reason is very minuscule), then I won't be treating your early reads with any weight, with all due respect.

congradulations you did scum tactic 101, discrediting. you should know by my games i have played here already this is how i always play

I don't give a shit how you say you always play. Stop it with that. I am not discrediting you, only explaining why I think your current "reads" aren't worth putting stock in, at least from my perspective.

You don't know everything. I'm allowed to disagree with your methods as town.

i bolded the main things that vaildates me on discrediting. if you said "well i am not going to" i would beg to differ but the second bolded states "i think your reads arent worth putting in" witch in turn is a genral statement and not yourself

I said your current reads. Specifically because you refuse to elaborate upon them in any way.