The Syndicate

HOLY FUCK, I can't believe we won! This is one of the greatest games I've ever been a part of, and I'm pretty proud of my gameplay here especially since I managed to maintain a rational calm more than I usually am, but holy shit was I outplayed by nearly the rest of you so badly. Quin, LoRab, Sloonei, and Dom, seriously, props. The four of you played amazingly and I can't remember being this excited about an endgame in a long time.

Quin, you are a worthy adversary. You absolutely fucking blindsided me completely. You win baddie performance of the year here for sure.

MacDougall wrote:I am fucking loving this end game. The cast is brilliant.

QFT

Sloonei wrote:A RAIN DELAY BEFORE THE 10TH INNING OF GAME 7 OF THE WORLD SERIES FEATURING THE CHICAGO CUBS AHFHFHGHGH

someone give me mafia things to do to keep me busy. i am literally going to explode.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I suspect no one because I'm dead and am unable to do anything.

this guy's holding out on us

G-Man wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I want some brains.

You're looking for the Wisard of Oz. This is Mad Max. Wrong game, bub.

DrWilgy wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I want some brains.

I'll give u brains alright.

Oh, and I JUST realized that should have said Rainbow #7. Dammit, that secretly is going to really bug me now. Lol. Okay, bye.

Oh, but before I go, I realize that the majorly contributing players all have some variance of town read from me right now, so I want to add: If there are any players who have been heavily contributing to the game and are mafia-aligned, I'd rank them in the following possibilities, despite my placement of them on my rainbow above:

1) zebra
2) Mac
3) Sloonei

I fear any of these being the case, because if so, they've done a pretty good job at seeming town.

Now gotta go.

I need to go now myself. Not sure when I'll be back, probably not until tomorrow night or Saturday. I'll try to do what I can though given my increasingly busy schedule and potentially impending demise.

Rainbow #6

JaggedJimmyJay

insertnamehere
Quin

Sloonei
MacDougall
LoRab
Dom

motel room
a2thezebra / Epignosis 2.0

Glorfindel

DrWilgy

indiglo
sprityo / Scotty 2.0

Alright, here is a new one. As has been the case since Rainbow #3, I'm ranking folks across AND within groups, though naturally the "across" is more telling.

I don't feel much of any need to elaborate on Jay. The guy got NK targeted and survived, and he is towning up the thread. Next.

I have already spoken to some degree on INH given his d4 behavior and d4 flip. I think both point to a scenario in which he is the Silvertongue role to a high probability. Quin has been a consistently strong town read to me since he entered the game. He has been inquiring, poking, and throwing out reads, and game gunning out of the gate from the moment he replaced in, and the person he replaced (BWT) was null to mafia read for most of the thread due to his lack of content, so it was not the easiest spot to replace into. He is perhaps the one player this game I have seen practically no reason to mafia read, from both analyzing his content and votes as well as due to my gut screaming that he is genuine. If he is mafia, it has to be one of the best performances I have seen in a long time.

Shifting down from my strong town reads to my moderate town reads now, Mac and Sloonei fell down from strong town reads, whereas LoRab has remained. Dom has moved up from a slight town read to a moderate town read. I am a bit confused by Sloonei's flip-flopping on me and LoRab, and there is a little part of my gut that, in reading his d4 content, has perhaps started to tinfoil a bit on him. This is because I am beginning to see more manipulative potential in Sloonei's ever-shifting suspect list, suspecting me when it seems my propensity to be lynched is higher, switching away from LoRab to INH in conjunction with turning tides, etc., but I call it a tinfoil because it is difficult to justify this train of thought given his consistently enormous and otherwise genuine contributions to the game. On the other hand, Mac has not been quite the tour de force as Sloonei in terms of sheer effort, but that isn't to say he doesn't seem to be trying his best in spite of a busy schedule. I think I would call Mac my highest placed primarily gut-based read at the moment, a "soul read" I suppose, given Jay's definition of it. I believe Mac's treatment of zebra was genuine, his Elohcin treatment seems too carefree for him to be her teammate (though it is still teammate-compatible, hence some doubt remains), etc. My main concern about Mac right now I suppose is similar to my concern with Sloonei, a potential for his play to be shifting suspects due to manipulation rather than honest hunting. The most compelling example of this is, despite his strong read on zebra, he seems to have cooled on that front a bit, but perhaps he can correct me there if I'm wrong. Anyway, I still have plenty of reasons to believe Sloonei and Mac are town, and I do not feel comfortable with entertaining their lynch. LoRab has had substantive contributions to this game that have also appeared genuine to me. I have had her at moderate town since... I think my third rainbow, and not much of anything has happened to alter my opinion of her. I think the NK targets are unlikely to come from a team with her on it, her contributions have appeared genuine, her behavior seems within-meta and not particularly alarming, and her interactions with Elo look pretty good -- in spite of my fear earlier that they might have been distancing. That fear is pretty much the only thing keeping LoRab from strong town right now I'd say. Lastly, Dom's ascension is in part due to his continued contributions and being able to engage him more on his treatment of me which has dispelled even further any fear that it is manufactured. I would say I still am not feeling 100% inspired by his hunting, but he is definitely bringing solid questions and points to the table, and for the majority of them, I like what he has had to say, even if we don't always agree or see eye to eye.

Alright, slight town people. I've been torn on these two folks. motel room really inspired me with his early contributions, then he started dropping down my radar eventually to slight mafia, but his recent contributions have me placing him in the town column. The biggest two points in his favor right now for me are (1) his deciding vote for Elohcin and (2) his observation regarding INH's "what do you want from me?" from d4 and his subsequent pursuit of that line of suspicion. However, both of these prevent me from higher placement because they can be still easily explained with a mafia-aligned motel room: (1) could have been an unsubstantiated bus attempt and (2) could very be moot given INH's high probability of being town and motel room could have been using a parallel to another game knowing it would be perceived as compelling to push the lynch of a scummy-seeming mislynch. zebra is a tough player to sort out for me, especially in this game due to her relentless pursuit of my lynch since the Elohcin flip. Her treatment of Elohcin is I think more troublesome than most other players still alive given her defenses with relatively weak reasoning, and her pursuit of me could be opportunistic and a way to keep the spotlight on an easy mislynch and away from herself and her teammates, all the while continuing to reinforce the stereotype of her town play that she engages heavily in tunneling. On the other hand, her heated exchange with Jay earlier in the game left me feeling incredibly inspired in her town alignment, and her efforts have been rather extensive. I think she is the player in the game I am most torn about, hence her placement near the middle here. Now that she has been replaced, I suppose that gives an opportunity for me to change this difficult judgment pending Epignosis's contributions, so I eagerly await those.

Mafia read time. The only slight mafia read I have right now is Glorfindel; he was previously a moderate mafia read. He has ascended a bit because I feel like he has shown a glimmer of contribution throughout d4 and I am more heavily considering Elohcin's treatment of him as well. I need to engage him directly though and see more from him.

DrWilgy has fallen from slight mafia read to moderate mafia read, primarily due to the lack of any response he gave to vote pressure throughout d4 and his interaction with Sloonei that I just weighed in on. DrW needs to answer for this inconsistency.

Yes, I actually have red reads now. I think indiglo and Scotty 2.0, despite both subbing into difficult positions late in the game, have now had enough time to display even the slightest glimmer of town spark. I think I have given them ample time to do so, but neither of them have. At least Scotty 2.0 has kind of tried, but like sprityo before him, I cannot see the townie mindset in anything he has said. indiglo reacted overly defensively to little suspicion, which I initially was willing to consider not particularly telling, even potentially town-indicative from a gut standpoint even if barely, but she has failed to get her grounding at all and I do not have any reason to town read her at this time either. It'd be nice to engage both of these folks directly. They also need to dig into the thread content and at least throw out something, lest they want to continue as easy pickings regardless of alignment, because they have little content to judge, and what content is there isn't remotely inspiring.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Someone tell me to get off the Internet and work on my personal statements.

Do it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:What interests me is that it struck me as Wilgy genuinely forgetting that he had changed his read on me from scum to town earlier in the game, and then trying to cover his tracks by making up some bogus claim about the terminology he was using. I have already mentioned this and he told me I'm wrong, but I'm not sure I'm inclined to believe, which is why I'm bringing up now. What do people think? Is Wilgy's behavior here believable?

I think your observation is a good one. I once made a GTH read on ProFiction and then forgot it, leading to a blatant slip in a subsequent post (I was bad). Nobody caught it and I got away, but it was definitely a mistake on my part.

I agree. I think your observation, Sloonei, indicates a higher likelihood of Wilgy being mafia than town, though i am not willing to discount the latter. I think his behavior is more likely if his reads are being fabricated, but conversely it is still believable that he could have lost track of his thoughts as a relatively disengaged townie.

Jay, I'm having the opposite problem as you right now, based on how my rainbow is falling out still. I don't think I'm finding enough players to be suspicious.

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:It's pretty difficult not to feel entirely dejected right now, to be honest.

Look how many times our collective minds have changed this game. Hang in there!

I'll try. There just must be something about my playstyle that always gets me in trouble, and it is bothersome that I still haven't figured out exactly what that is.

You should take it as a compliment, I think. It seems to be me that we all just need to be more skeptical of you because we know what you're capable of as a baddie.

this game, for instance...

Nice way to make that relevant to this game, but you're sorely mistaken. :P

Seriously though, thanks. I don't think I'm really any good at this game though, maybe just good at making it seem like I'm town when I'm not. Lol.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Remember Talking Heads Day 7. I was a sure fire lynch (after wrongly defending MacDougall), and I got out of it by abjectly refusing to defend myself and instead by focusing solely on material that actually matters. The value of defense in Mafia is limited.

That was a pretty awesome comeback.

It does help though that you had a role which couldn't be nightkilled, since they tried to kill you multiple times. :P

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:It's pretty difficult not to feel entirely dejected right now, to be honest.

Look how many times our collective minds have changed this game. Hang in there!

I'll try. There just must be something about my playstyle that always gets me in trouble, and it is bothersome that I still haven't figured out exactly what that is.

It's the inherent product of posting so many times, particularly when you involve yourself in so many different discussions. You have more opportunities to say something that other people might find suspicious than the average player. I have experienced the phenomenon many times. This isn't an advisement to post less, but rather an advisement to consider the effects of posting so much and play in a way that is always conscious of those effects.

Yeah, I guess so.

Hey Epi 2.0, are you current on the thread?

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:It's pretty difficult not to feel entirely dejected right now, to be honest.

Look how many times our collective minds have changed this game. Hang in there!

I'll try. There just must be something about my playstyle that always gets me in trouble, and it is bothersome that I still haven't figured out exactly what that is.

It's pretty difficult not to feel entirely dejected right now, to be honest.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:but I will not waste any time that I actually do have to play this game and will spend more of my concentration on sorting out other players.

That's in everyone's best interests. I don't think we have to lynch you. If you're town your input is valued, so that's what I want to see. Defending yourself until the end of time is very unlikely to change anything.

I don't know; I am caught in a weird situation here. Every single time a decent amount of you all start town reading me, even heavily (see: Sloonei's rainbow list where I was top town read, and now I'm a top two suspect), it all falls apart due to my treatment of Elohcin, which I know is honest. At this point a large part of me feels as though there will be absolutely nothing I can do to display my alignment to all of you all, because I feel like I have been putting in 110% effort thus far and been consistently genuine and reasonable. It hasn't gotten me anywhere.

A significant portion of that 110% effort has been in answering to accusations. I am telling you how you can change your approach. I know it's annoying to leave accusations unanswered, but sometimes it's just for the best.

I suppose that's fair, but I feel like I have consistently showed a propensity to sort out folks this game. I am not sure what else I could have done to improve any of that hunting since I have consistently been under attack. I don't understand how failing to explain my point of view is going to change anyone's mind, but alright. Like I said, I'll answer questions I guess.

Working on a new rainbow now. Might be a little bit as I sort through all of my thoughts here and compose little blurbs about everyone.

MacDougall wrote:We should just lynch g-man.

It's like the POE spikes are slowly closing in on me all game ever since that Elohcin flip, and they won't stop despite any of my best efforts. Eventually I have to be lynched for town to move on.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:but I will not waste any time that I actually do have to play this game and will spend more of my concentration on sorting out other players.

That's in everyone's best interests. I don't think we have to lynch you. If you're town your input is valued, so that's what I want to see. Defending yourself until the end of time is very unlikely to change anything.

I don't know; I am caught in a weird situation here. Every single time a decent amount of you all start town reading me, even heavily (see: Sloonei's rainbow list where I was top town read, and now I'm a top two suspect), it all falls apart due to my treatment of Elohcin, which I know is honest. At this point a large part of me feels as though there will be absolutely nothing I can do to display my alignment to all of you all, because I feel like I have been putting in 110% effort thus far and been consistently genuine and reasonable. It hasn't gotten me anywhere.

LoRab wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Hey LoRab, are you currently around in enough fashion to talk a bit? Is anyone else around as well?

I wasn't. I am now, though.

LoRab wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:He has to be town given that result. He was probably even more frustrated because he knew this would waste time and he still would not be killed with this lynch after all of it. One of the times I got the most frustrated with being mislynched/suspected incorrectly as a civilian was when I had a one-time automatic life protection.

As I've said, we do not know that failed kills/non-lynches are written differently. I also realize we haven't asked the host. So:

@GMan: In this gme, are failed lynches because a player survives the first kill attempt written differently than a lynch being stopped by silvertongue? Similarly, are failed night kills written the same or differently, based on protection, block, or survival of first death attempt?

That's fair. Hopefully G-Man will answer. I will not go as far as saying he is 100% town (I realize my previous language that you quoted here was perhaps too strong in exaggeration), but I have no interest in lynching him personally.

a2thezebra wrote:I also feel that MP's responses to those who have suspected throughout the game have been alarmingly defensive, and I think he's the most likely candidate for JJJ's attempted NK. I admit that that's more speculative than his Day 1 antics with Eloh.

linki Sloonei - Which points do you flat-out disagree with and which points do you like?

I'm just going to defend one thing and move on, except for anything you all want to hear from me about.

But I just have to say: LOL, what? I feel like I have been as calm as possible this game.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Why zebra/Epi 2.0?

Soul read. She looks genuine even when she's wrong. It's not terribly different from my read on Sloonei.

What does soul read mean, like a gut read?

Kind of I guess. I am using it to mean a strong read that is generated primarily by feeling.

Okay, that makes sense, thanks.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Why zebra/Epi 2.0?

Soul read. She looks genuine even when she's wrong. It's not terribly different from my read on Sloonei.

What does soul read mean, like a gut read?

By the way, if you all are going to lynch me, just go ahead and make it Day 5 and get it over with. I've been defending myself extensively, and it's clear that I will be an eventual lynch due to POE. I do not want to be the lynch in LYLO, and my schedule is only going to get busier from now until Nov. 11, so just get it over with. I will still defend whatever you all are interested to hear from me, and it is difficult NOT to elaborate immensely in response to zebra's comments against me the past cycle, but I will not waste any time that I actually do have to play this game and will spend more of my concentration on sorting out other players.

Okay, it seems I'm caught up now. Let me think about everyone for a bit here and throw out a new rainbow with detailed reads on everyone.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It's unfortunate so many of y'all are suspicious for some reason or another. The only players I feel like I can comfortably remove from process of elimination are Zebra/Epi 2.0, INH (going with Silvertongue), Quin, and Sloonei. That leaves this horrible pile:

Dom
DrWilgy
Glorfindel
indiglo
LoRab
MacDougall
motel room
MovingPictures07
sprityo / Scotty 2.0

Reducing it further by removing the ones I think look the most town in that group: Dom, LoRab, motel room...

DrWilgy
Glorfindel
indiglo
MacDougall
MovingPictures07
Scotty 2.0

Still six damned names to find three baddies, and that's only if I'm right about the ones I've removed. Annoying. I reduced it one more time into my top suspects among the four with a red highlighter.

That's my lynch pool for Day 5.

Why zebra/Epi 2.0?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:I don't understand.

Your treatment of Elohcin is suspicious, from Day 1 onward. You've already discussed all of the moments that concern me, either in response to my ISO or my interactive read. I don't need to repeat that dialogue; it won't help me read you.

Okay then.

Welcome back, Epi!

Sloonei wrote:

G-Man wrote:ROLES:SILVERTONGUE: A cowardly lawyer, Silvertongue may stop one lynch during the game. If he uses it to save himself or a member of Toecutter's gang, his votes will not count for the rest of the game.

I'm guessing this is what saved INH. The story may suggest INH himself is not Silvertongue, but I'm not sure G-man could come out and confirm INH's role in his host post.

either way,

I'd say chances are high that he is that role.

He has to be town given that result. He was probably even more frustrated because he knew this would waste time and he still would not be killed with this lynch after all of it. One of the times I got the most frustrated with being mislynched/suspected incorrectly as a civilian was when I had a one-time automatic life protection.

INH was fucking pardoned? LOL.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I like some of your points, zebra, but I also flat out disagree with several others. You definitely have tunnel vision working on MP right now. That is not neccesarily a bad thing. I can't wait to see how massive MP's response is. I assume it will need its own thread.

I am honestly feeling inspired. As much as I have waffled on MP, some of his early handling of matters-Elohcin just look plain bad. Which bits do you flatly disagree with? You don't have to go on a whole thing, just point them out.

What inspired you specifically?

Things you've already answered to. Rehashing them isn't going to be productive.

I don't understand.

Sorry to see you go, zebra, it was a pleasure, even if you tunneled me extensively.

I'm starting to think that I will need to be lynched before this game ends, regardless.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:He also took this post seriously

MovingPictures07 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:It's a good thing Wilgy is confirmed bad. Makes the lynch decision today easy.

?!?!!?!?!

That wasn't a serious response on my part.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Sloonei wrote:I like some of your points, zebra, but I also flat out disagree with several others. You definitely have tunnel vision working on MP right now. That is not neccesarily a bad thing. I can't wait to see how massive MP's response is. I assume it will need its own thread.

I am honestly feeling inspired. As much as I have waffled on MP, some of his early handling of matters-Elohcin just look plain bad. Which bits do you flatly disagree with? You don't have to go on a whole thing, just point them out.

What inspired you specifically?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

MacDougall wrote:I am so sick. I need some hugs.

It would be ideal if your biological parameters would return to normal in minimal time.

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Sloonei, if you could lynch any two players right now, who would you pick?

I'm still committed to INH, but I'll pretend we're moving past him and give two other names. Scotty would be first. sprityo was underwhelming and a little shaky in his time here, and Scotty's re-entry didn't strike me as enthusiastic or committed. I got the sense that he subbed back in for a scum player who already had a big case mounted against him and, understandably if this is the case, gave up.

For the sake of not naming two quiet spots/players, I'll also name MP or Mac as my second. I don't know which. I haven't had a chance to pick either of their brains in this game yet, so my read on both is still up in the air.

What would you like to pick my brain about?

Reads. Tell me what you think about any player(s) of your choosing.

Sure, let me just catch up and sort out my thoughts unless you want somewhat unfresh thoughts on someone.

Oh, I see what you mean about zebra now. Let me read this thing.

MacDougall wrote:I am so sick. I need some hugs.

Feel better!

Sloonei wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Sloonei, how did I go from being in the top town tier in your rainbow to one of your two major suspects? I still have plenty to read so maybe I just haven't come across it yet, but I wanted to inquire now nonetheless.

Zebra and an uncertain mind.

Dammit zebra.