The Syndicate

Spacedaisy wrote:Because I was taking my fiancé out for dinner for his birthday.

It was really delicious.

Why am I not in this game?

Hello, thread!

Hello.

Epi, I've changed my mind, I want my role back.

(not being serious)

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Marina Diamandis is awesome.
I promise to sing "Bubblegum Bitch" for y'all if the pace of this game picks up soon.

Give the man what he wants.

Marina Diamandis is awesome.

Hey all!

I hope this game is going well. I've popped in from time to time, I see we have some strange inactive cases.

Life happens, though, which I know well, between wedding prep and PhD kicking my ass. I really regret having to replace out, and wish I were still in or that I could replace back in, but I can't steal that from my awesome replacement.

Sadly, there were a solid couple of weeks I just couldn't find any time to play. I'll definitely be in for your next game, Dom!

Anyway, I'll shut up now. :P Happy mafia'ing, folks! Hope I get to play with all of you, but especially the new folks, in another game.

Epignosis wrote:Does mine?

No comment.

G-Man wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Announcement:

There is now a Gender designation that shows under your avatar.

You can go to User Control Panel --- Profile --- then scroll down to Gender at the bottom and select either Male or Female.
I am now tempted to list myself as female just to confuse people.

Too bad your avatar gives it away. :P

Announcement:

There is now a Gender designation that shows under your avatar.

You can go to User Control Panel --- Profile --- then scroll down to Gender at the bottom and select either Male or Female.

Sorry, folks, for replacing out, but I decided RL needs to be the sole focus until mid-August. I thought I would take a break after this game, but I realized I absolutely needed the break now, against what I was hoping.

Hope that you enjoy a chance to play again, Epi.

Also, FYI, Devin texted me saying his phone was dying and he didn't bring his phone charger, so he won't be able to post until he's out of town. Wanted me to let you all know.

Hey all, I haven't had a chance to read any of the game since I last posted. I've been SUPER swamped and I didn't have a chance to even log on the internet for more than a few minutes until now. Sadly, I have homework to juggle, which takes priority over catching up. I just thought I'd let you know that I may be very absent for a little while here.

If Dom has a willing replacement who really wants to play, I'll probably sub out, but otherwise I'll keep playing, just won't be active much.

Brother not bother lol these typos

I'm starting to sound like Paul

Alright see you guys later!

How the hell does anyone actually play this game from anything other than a computer I commend you people

Alright I'll check back in some time after I get into cincinnati but I haven't seen my parents or bother since Christmas so idk when I'll get around to it

Golden wrote:I still intend to vote SVS. It feels like she has avoided responding to some things posted at her.

There is the possibility she is genuinely overwhelmed - and if so I'm sorry - but I would be foolish to allow SVS to turn me away from a vote for her on an emotional basis. And I know she is sly enough to intentionally do that.

This

100 percent this

I can see why others are voting cobalt though

Oh and thanks cobalt for addressing all of my questions

To answer yours yes I already hav committed to a moderate level mafia read for SVS and she has not alleviated any of my concerns even though she clearly has been here it's very evasive of her

And as I have stated I will continue to commit particularly after we have one cycles worth of threD info and voting records

I'm not sure why you think I've been particulArly not committing

Also Canuck you no showed the latter half or so of llamas keeler game so he instructed that I dock your score... The only reason it is so low atm is because there have hardly been any games since we started enacting the p score so your score will increase to 66 after this game automatically and will continue to go up

Sorry I didn't PM you about it directly but we are experimenting with it and haven't really had to change anyone's scores yet

I will make sure people are formally alerted in the future

Hey all I am at the airport don't have much time

I do not like SVS posts since she has come back

I understand if she's feeling demoralized but she STILL hasn't acknowledged me at all

I am voting for her right now and I implore others to highly consider it

Alright, folks, I need to go. I'll check in when I can!

Bass_the_Clever wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:I think it's shocking. lol When I think Epi day 0 I think of him joking around with some slight reads. This is almost a new Epi we are seeing. lol
You think this is completely different than his normal playstyle then?
I wouldn't say completely different because like I said he always seems to have some reads by day 1 I don't remember him being locked in on someone like he has been since early day 0.

Fair enough. Was curious, since many people seem to be chalking up his behavior as normal.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:I agree with S~V~S did seem to be defending to hard. I mean she pulled quotes, and like I said before I don't ever remember her ever doing that this early in a game before.
What I don't understand about S~V~S's behavior the most are 1) her complete lack of acknowledgement of my existence and 2) her defense to Epi's posts.

1) I don't mean that egocentrically, but it is indeed odd. Whenever we're on the same page, she typically acknowledges that, since it almost always happens. Whenever I throw suspicion her way, she also typically acknowledges it. So... I'm very curious to hear from her.

2) I highlighted this in my mega-post, but she acts like she doesn't understand why Epi has called her bad, when indeed I thought it was really clear why he believes it. It reminds me of Elo in Economics.
I get what you are saying. Do you think its been because she hasn't been around?

I don't know. I definitely hope she comes around tomorrow. I'm remaining open-minded and I really hope she is able to clear concerns.

Golden wrote:I don't actually think Epi has been that different to usual. I think it's happened to him despite himself. He's probably mortified.

I agree, he seems like "detective Epi", as I noted earlier. I've seen this behavior before.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:MP why do you trust Devin so much?

If by "so much", you mean a very slightly town read

then let me elaborate. He is my most 'trusted' person in the thread at the moment, I suppose one could say, but I certainly don't trust him as far as I could throw him. His position very well could change after we have a D1 result and voting records, and my read of him is "very slight" for that reason. Frankly, my read of him has been determined solely by the real time interaction I had with him and his responses to my posts under pressure.

I suppose I should have covered this as well in my mega-post. I knew I was forgetting something.

Let me pull a couple of quotes to elaborate.

Spoiler: show

At the time that I was questioning him, we were really the only two players throwing any sort of heat around in the thread, so I figured a question such as "Why did you joke about it..." would get him feeling some pressure, if he were mafia. Instead, he seemed to just shrug it off. That struck me as civilian-minded careless Devin. He very well could be faking it, but his response seemed fine.

Spoiler: show

When I asked him to provide GTH reads for Epi, myself, and sig, here's what he said. He took a little bit to respond, but I knew he was working, so I didn't count them against him necessarily. What I was looking for here is how he responded. I figure, if Devin is mafia and trying to buddy me, he'll answer the question seriously. If he answers it jokingly, it reinforces the thought I had before of a civilian Devin that says what he's thinking and has nothing to lose.

Again, WIFOM interpretation, hence why "very slight" read. When I consistently applied pressure to him, he didn't seem to crack at all. So I went ahead and assessed him as very slight civilian.

I'm very curious what his thoughts are after all of the more recent developments, however, since I haven't been able to update my read of him since that time.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I think it's shocking. lol When I think Epi day 0 I think of him joking around with some slight reads. This is almost a new Epi we are seeing. lol

You think this is completely different than his normal playstyle then?

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I agree with S~V~S did seem to be defending to hard. I mean she pulled quotes, and like I said before I don't ever remember her ever doing that this early in a game before.

What I don't understand about S~V~S's behavior the most are 1) her complete lack of acknowledgement of my existence and 2) her defense to Epi's posts.

1) I don't mean that egocentrically, but it is indeed odd. Whenever we're on the same page, she typically acknowledges that, since it almost always happens. Whenever I throw suspicion her way, she also typically acknowledges it. So... I'm very curious to hear from her.

2) I highlighted this in my mega-post, but she acts like she doesn't understand why Epi has called her bad, when indeed I thought it was really clear why he believes it. It reminds me of Elo in Economics.

Sloonei wrote:@ mp07: Do you have any thoughts about any of the players who are not popular susprcts at this time? Or at least Cobalt?

I still am mulling over all of my grey reads, some players much more so than others.

I do have opinions regarding Cobalt; I've consistently named him (now even I'm questioning gender) a very slight mafia read. I'd call him my #2 suspect at the moment, if I had to choose between Cobalt and Hedgeowl.

#1 S~V~S
#2 Cobalt
#3 Hedgeowl
#4-#26 ?????????
#27 Devin the Omniscient
#28 Epignosis

It's certainly very difficult to figure out anything beyond my top 3 suspects at the moment. I've had various gut-based responses to other players still in my grey area, but I'm not quite ready to move any of those players due to the complete lack of any confidence level of those thoughts.

Does anyone else find it very odd that Epignosis is perhaps the most town-read player in this thread? I don't know if I've ever seen him have this much town cred on Day 1 before. Interestingly enough, I was the first one to pull the trigger, followed by some people questioning how I could have even read him, then followed by many following suit. What do people make of this?

Golden wrote:I have no comment on your case on SVS because I think it was essentially an affirmation of my own.

Glad we're on the same page.

Sloonei wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Does absolutely no one have any thoughts on my post regarding S~V~S or anything else I've said? I didn't recall seeing anything. If anyone does have any questions for me, I'll get to them when I can but my posting will likely be delayed, because I have to go to bed shortly, and then my ability to post tomorrow through Sunday will be sporadic.
I liked your post about SVS and if anything so far has convinced me she might be bad, it's your case. But, as I've got 0 experience with her as a player, it's still not enough for me to really comment on without getting her response first. So I'm just waiting for her to defend herself before I make a read.

Thanks, Sloonei. As always with S~V~S, I'm hesitant, but obviously it's mafia and there's always the chance that I'm wrong. With that said, I think "moderate mafia read" is the perfect way to describe my confidence level regarding mine (and others') observations regarding her behavior so far this game. If she doesn't defend herself, then she will remain a moderate mafia read, at the least, and frankly I can't see any of the other players sinking that low in such a time frame. I suppose anything's possible.

I know what you mean; it's difficult to make any assessment of possible innocence until she says something.

Does absolutely no one have any thoughts on my post regarding S~V~S or anything else I've said? I didn't recall seeing anything. If anyone does have any questions for me, I'll get to them when I can but my posting will likely be delayed, because I have to go to bed shortly, and then my ability to post tomorrow through Sunday will be sporadic.

I'm still awaiting S~V~S's response to various inquiries, otherwise my vote is most certainly going to her tomorrow. Like Sloonei, I do not support a lynch of LC at this time, although I can totally understand why Epi has cased him. I'm just not personally convinced quite yet.

Okay, spoiler tags:

1. You must have quotes within the spoiler tags, otherwise the text is going to be grey on white, very hard to read.
2. You cannot have spoiler tags within the quotes that you are spoiler tagging. This is because the system reads [ spoiler ] then within the quote reads [ spoiler ] again before you are able to end it with [ / spoiler ].

Hey folks, only here for a minute, but I have managed to keep up with reading so far. We'll see how successful I am when I'm gone. :P

I meant to say that I have acknowledged the thoughts on LC and others, but I still have most of the players sitting in grey because I'm still trying to decide how to read all of them. Figured that was also implied, but didn't want to make it seem as though I was ignoring anyone's cases.

Golden, thanks for elaborating. I feel similarly re: Sloonei, but this is essentially his meta that we're seeing thus far, and like Jay, he's a beast at keeping his meta while mafia (though in the game I replaced out of, he did have one post that caught everyone's attention, otherwise he was able to accomplish it from what time I was in the game). So I'm not bumping him up to very slightly civilian just yet, although I've considered it. A lot of my reads will inevitably be dependent on how D1 votes are cast.

nutella, I'll look into the gender sidebar option, that's a good idea. In games that I host, I always include a genderized version of the player list, but it seems it's not trendy since I don't think any other host has caught on. :P For understandable reasons, since hosts have enough to do as it is.

Bass, first off, the spoiler tags will fail if the quote you are quoting already has spoiler tags in it (since the system reads the opening spoiler tag, then another opening spoiler tag, then closed tag, then closed tag). Other than that, you seem to be doing it correctly. You illustrate some good points re: Cobalt, but I'm keeping him at very slightly mafia for now. I look forward to his subsequent elaborations.

I can wait until the airport, probably, so I'll hold off on voting until then, but I likely won't have much time.

No worries, DDL. It'll be great to play another game with you, whenever you have more time. I can relate to your situation, especially since I'm in a game over on RYM at the moment as well, all the while RL is demanding much of my time. Juggling multiple games is definitely an art. And welcome, Canuck! It will be great to play with you again.

On the topic of RL, please note the following, as it will have an impact on my behavior this game. I'm leaving for Cincinnati tomorrow until Sunday mostly to take care of wedding planning, and it will be a SUPER tight schedule. I will literally only have time for wedding stuff and a little bit of time with my family and that's it. I really wish I could even make a little bit of time to see friends, since I haven't seen any since Christmas, but I can't. After I return, I have a very busy month ahead of me with wedding planning (wedding is August 8th) as well as PhD work: (1) juggling my independent research project, (2) my replication (yes, Epi, Choi et al 2010 the auditing one, not the Biology one) and first year paper, (3) my teaching prep class seminar (in which I fully prepare for the Principles of Accounting I class I'm teaching in the Fall, as well as read two books, and various other activities), and (4) research assistant work (this is stuff I get paid my stipend to do, so I can't ignore it). This already is 50+ hours a week, but will increasingly become more demanding as I get into July. I've also already spent too much time procrastinating some of it, thanks to mafia. See: Economics mostly, but also Biblical and The Flash (briefly). Consequently, my mafia game, which is often defined by a high volume of posts, will be affected this game. I will be much more likely to pop in less frequently, which will increase my already notoriously long posts probably much more so, and make my style seem more like a cross of Blooper-esque, Epi-esque, and MP-esque, rather than straight-up MP-esque combination of frequency and volume. Please read my posts anyway, if you are so inclined, and I will try my absolute hardest to put as much effort into this game as I can, since it will probably be my last for a couple of months.

I will be taking full advantage of spoiler tags just to keep my post from being insanely long as I'm often notorious for. That is not a license to skim over my post. I hope it means that it actually increases the likelihood of being read.

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1) The 'Voting for New Players' Gambit

Full disclosure, I never actually intended on giving new players a "free pass" this game. I was hoping it would garner discussion, hence why I wouldn't answer Epi's question about my change in opinion, since my opinion never really changed 180 degrees.

Noting that DDL, Epi, Golden, and Sloonei were playing this game, all of whom played Economics, I was hoping someone would note a slight change in my opinion from Economics, and that it would make my drastic shift in opinion seem more believable. Here is the post from Economics that DDL was probably thinking of:

Spoiler: show

I specifically was looking for reactions from Epi and S~V~S, since those are two players I consistently have a difficult time reading, especially early on in games, and, more significantly, those are two players which consistently have had strong opinions on both sides of the issue, and as a result I felt they were the two (perhaps besides DDL, Golden, etc.) most likely engage with me regarding it. I received the reaction I was anticipating from Epi, and his interaction with me made me feel good about him (I'll elaborate more in a second here), hence why Epi was declared a very slight civilian read. I'm not sure if I received the full extent of a reaction I was anticipating from S~V~S (again, will elaborate).

+++++++++++++

1a) Why did Epi's reaction make me feel good about him from a vibes-based standpoint?

People keep saying this is 'standard Epi', and while that is largely true, I do feel that people (whether civilian or mafia) are parroting this non-opinion of him to make it seem as though they have something to say. Personally, I have something by which to issue at least some opinion of Epi, hence why he made a color in my rainbow. A few players have speculated how I have been able to do that. I will explain that now. I did and still do feel good about the way he handled my situation, and I will not be voting for him today. Here's why:

Spoiler: show

While I would expect Epi to respond with content like this regardless of alignment, I was glad to see the bolded and underlined sentiment. He was able to suss out the awkwardness of my statements, purposefully placed there; I was hoping he would. Instead of grilling me, it seems Epi is perplexed, and sees a possible nefarious reason for me to drop that sentiment. While this content still makes it difficult to assess alignment, since Epi has been inquisitive as either alignment, as well as balls-to-the-wall aggressive as either alignment, I can at least say it appears to me he is genuinely intrigued regarding my 180. No vibe points one way or the other just yet, but in combination with subsequent posts, this does assist my decision to issue an opinion of him.

Spoiler: show

Null read still. This sentiment does jive with his recent attitude that his experimental flirtation with probability-focused scum hunting had received little serious weight from most other players at this site in recent games (i.e., Death Note).

Spoiler: show

First statement is WIFOM, null read from that. Second statement is an issuance of fact very in line with what I would expect him to say. The question at the end gives me a slightly civilian read, since he still seems genuinely intrigued as to why I changed my mind.

This is detective Epi, not reaction baiting Epi. Again, I realize that detective Epi can be civilian or mafia, and so can reaction baiting Epi (see Economics where I mistakenly thought reaction baiting Epi was mafia, when he wasn't).

Spoiler: show

This is where I really could leave the live interaction with Epi and issue a statement on his alignment one way or the other, even if very slight. Instead of opting to aggressively pursue me further after my cryptic answer, he drops the issue completely. This indicated to me that Epi no longer had reason to believe pursuing this was worth his time.

Seeing as though we're dealing with detective Epi, since his behavior regarding Long Con, S~V~S, and practically the entire game can still be characterized as such, I felt and still feel comfortable in issuing Epi's hunting is coming from a genuine civilian-oriented mindset. Absolutely nothing about the way he handled the situation led me to see anything nefarious, in real time.

I recognize fully the amazing mafia capabilities of Epi, hence why my opinion is very slight. It could very well change at any time, in either direction. But it is an opinion nonetheless. And all of that said, I have played quite a number of games with Epi now, and while he is a very, very good player, he isn't perfect. I wanted to specifically set up a situation early on where I could interact with him in real time. I believe Epi has been putting forth a genuinely-seeming effort to baddie hunt and that his posts in live time interaction with me hold up to scrutiny. Could he have been genuinely interested as a mafia member? Sure. Could he be faking his baddie hunt? Easily. Of course, I still can't tell. I wanted to get discussion going, however, specifically from two players I have a hard time reading, and as Gumshoe noted, mafia is all about making assessments on other players, whether right or wrong. So I've made an assessment.

+++++++++++++

1b) Why did S~V~S's reaction not match with what I anticipated?

I believe the way S~V~S handled the situation is most interesting.

To clarify for those who may not know, but S~V~S and I have a long and complicated (and lovely) mafia history, since we've played together for the past 5 years. She fooled me hard a few of the first handful of times we interacted, so I subsequently viewed her actions in many games we played thereafter with heavy scrutiny. We also tend to approach the game from opposite perspectives consistently, hence why it surprises me not at all that she hates rainbow lists, since I love them. For the longest time, I tunneled her game after game, sometimes opportunistically (as a mafia) and other times genuinely (as a civilian). After being consistently incorrect, especially as the latter, I have tried keeping that in mind in subsequent reassessments of her game, being much more cautious in my opinions of her. Lately, in reapproaching the game after Champs and playing at other sites again (most notably, RYM), I've been revamping my style, and I've been able to play with S~V~S in successfully call her out in a recent game (Biblical). Whether it was for the right reasons or not, she will contest, and I will recognize her objections.

That all may seem meaningless to many of you, but I'm willing to start a completely new leaf with S~V~S, and I'm going to try my absolute best not to tunnel her but not to ignore any assessment of her I do develop, just because I've been wrong many times before.

Here is how she responded:

Spoiler: show

Unfortunately, she did not respond to my set of statements in real time, but it's very likely that she was at work, especially since this post seems to jive with what I know from her in RL in that it appears to be a phone post from work. Nonetheless, it's still a post, and still needs to be dissected.

Say what you will about 'interesting'. I tend to agree with Sloonei that it is a word that many of us use regardless of alignment, but all the while noting that it can be utilized (and has been, I've seen it, and I've done it) by mafia in order to seem as though they're contributing:

What really gets me about this post and her subsequent posts thereafter is she never once acknowledges my 180. She did not play Economics so she would have been unaware that I even changed my mind in the slightest, or so I would assume.

I mean, look at this:

Spoiler: show

S~V~S wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
S~V~S wrote:Gumshoe & I both used the word "Interesting" as well.

I can't speak for LC or Gumshoe, but I thought todays discussion WAS interesting. You did not find it so, Epi? Out of all that discussion the only thing that caught your eye was one word?
Not really, no.

What of the discussion was interesting to you? You used the word, but you didn't say how. You said you looked forward to rereading it, but you haven't done so. Instead, you are focusing on me.

My issue is not that people use the word, but that they don't explain. If you call something interesting, then say why. Otherwise, you are talking and not saying anything. If I say "S~V~S is suspicious," what you are going to do?

You're going to ask "Why?"

This is no different.

You posted a picture of llama's avatar, and now you're questioning me. This tells me nothing about what you found interesting before 4pm EST today. It leads me to believe you didn't really find anything interesting at all.

S~V~S wrote:This feels somewhat distractionary to me.
Oh here we are again. What am I distracting people from now? Not posting? Pizza Hut commercials?

S~V~S wrote:Either you don't want people to talk about the other discussion today, or maybe you're doing some rather fancy distancing with LC, since it is unlikely that he is going to get lynched over "interesting". Or maybe you are just doing some standard issue Epi mind games and intentionally enigmatic crap. Not sure which, maybe all, maybe none.
You've just named every possibility and then conceded there are other possibilities.

You speak, yet say nothing.

You are on my suspect list.

++++

nutella wrote:Epi, I disagree with your criticisms. True, "interesting" is kind of a vacuous term but I and others use it all the time. And I also say things like "I don't know what to think about [whatever interaction has been going on in the thread]" because I feel like such interactions merit acknowledgment/I feel like I have to comment on them regardless of my alignment.
So I'm right, but it's okay when you do it?
I reread it, and I still find it interesting. I want to see where it goes, and tbh, I found you jumping on a word to be MORE interesting. Which was why that was what I chose to comment on.

Which was perhaps your intention

And I am sure I will lay awake all night in fear at being on your suspect list.

She says "I reread it, and I still find it interesting. I want to see where it goes..." Still she said nothing about my 180.

I'm not really sure what to make of this, but it's not at all what I expected. Given our history of consistently disagreeing in thread, ESPECIALLY about this issue, I fully anticipated her to at least recognize my viewpoint or inquire about it or at least second Epi's inquiry as to why I have changed my mind, since I came around to the argument that she was unarguably the biggest proponent of. Even if she were either alignment, I expected SOMETHING.

But she acknowledged nothing of it. She never once even has acknowledged me, my rainbow reads, or anything about me. I find it very odd.

You know what's even more odd? She never once acknowledges any of it, but here she asks Golden what he thinks of me:

Spoiler: show

S~V~S wrote:
Golden wrote:Epi just dropped the mic!

Now the case on SVS I sort of see. I could have used the word interesting in this thread, but the chances of me remembering whether I did or didn't is zero. Defending LC's use of the word while pointing out she did it herself I could definitely see as a potential move to make herself look better if LC flipped civ.

It's a little thing, but this is my first legitimate ping.
I did a search when Epi made a big deal of it, and three people had used it. I was one of them. When they came for me, to paraphrase that WW2 German pastor, there was no one left to speak for me. If Epi led a lynch on someone for use of a common word, I might be next.

Golden wrote:Also, are you eating bean dip?

This is fun. Epi reminds me of me when I think I've caught baddies on day zero.

And did you?

It reminds me of Epi in almost every game I have ever played with him, good or bad, with his cryptic Day One (or Zero as the case may be) gambits & mind games. Yoni, as TGG told me it was called (repeatedly ) during Biblical.

Golden wrote:Hey, for the first time ever I'm getting civ vibes from Epi!

I don't agree with the case on LC, but I do agree that this game has not gotten in the least bit interesting (linki - sorry SVS!).

For me, the most interesting post this game is the one Cobalt posted, which Timmer quoted above. I think there are quite a number of players in this game who could point to games where they have played the super-civvie. Especially invoking the 'my most recent game' thing... and all in a comment where he purports not to care if we vote for him. Do I see potential civilian motives for posting it? Yes. It's not easy to have a voice in a place where you are not known, so making a cred grab isn't necessarily inherently suspicious.

But civilians don't usually go around flashing their supatown credentials.
Now I found this post interesting. What about him gave you that civ vibe? His back & forth with MP? His vaguely sneering tone? If you are getting a civvie vibe from him, what do you think of MP?

I have not made my mind up on Epi, but I gotta say (and he knows it) that I loathe his fishing expeditions, the way he throws fake suspicions out early in the game to gauge reactions, then drops them after Day One.

And I don't like Rainbow lists, I don't like ANY lists this early in the game, especially with 2 mafias. With one mafia, the baddies already know who is who, or more precisely, who is a civ. Two mafias complicates things, and lists naming who people trust help the baddies at this stage; I will be happy to list those I don't trust, but not those that I do. And if I am alive to make a list later in the game, it will be not be a rainbow. We had a discussion about Rainbow lists in the mod forum, which prompted me to find my new nifty grey rainbow avatar. And I will look askew at those who use list posting as a litmus test.

If this is Day Zero Day One should be fabulous

What do you all think of this?***

S~V~S's behavior has given me GTH mafia vibes, rather than civilian ones. I don't see any genuine mafia hunting from her. In fact, she has the highest propensity to receive my vote at the moment. I will elaborate more later. ***But I want to hear what others think of my thoughts here in 1b in the meantime, please and thank you.

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2) Responses to Others' Posts (except Cobalt)

If you see your name underlined and bolded, it is addressed to YOU.

I hope DDL (well, I guess I missed that one, sorry buddy), Bass, and any others who were wondering what was going on with me re: 1) are satisfied. Consequently, I will not waste time responding to their posts if I feel the answers to their questions would have been answered in 1). If not, I will be happy to respond to any posts hereafter that are directed at me.

Spoiler: show

Devin, I will address this in my response to Cobalt. If you're curious what I think of Cobalt, note that I had him as my sole very slight mafia read in my rainbow list the last time I was in the thread, as well as my response to him. It will be in section 3). If you still have additional questions on this (or any other) matter, I'll address them subsequently.

Spoiler: show

Blooper, you note in this post multiple "truces", but ask the question whether there is just one thereafter. Devin and I never agreed to a truce. Just wanted to clear that up.

You specifically note you have "no strong opinions". If that is the case, do you have weak opinions? If so, what are they?

Spoiler: show

sig, I was not at all implying your question was not a good one or that it is worthless. If you got that impression, then that is my fault for making my tone seemingly imply as such.

Yes, I've been in many mafia games like that as well, and I figured that was your intention, but I wanted to hear your explanation.

You say it is always good to know ahead of time, sure. Answer this question for me: Do you think it is humanly possible for me to list of every instance of meta regarding every player on this site that you would need to know ahead of time so that you can make assessments with the same basis of knowledge as I have?

Spoiler: show

Long Con wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:***I would like to avoid voting a player completely new to The Syndicate on Day 1. I used to very vocally oppose those who took this view, but I have recently come around to this line of thinking. I do think it would suck to come to a new site and get lynched Day 1 your first game, so newbies will get a "free pass" from me, but only from my vote (not any suspicion I have), and if they are my top suspect going into Day 2, I will not hesitate to vote for a newbie.
Why? What changed your mind, that you should "very vocally oppose those who took this view" to "recently come around to this line of thinking?"

MovingPictures07 wrote:What likelihood would you give to this being the case in this game?

Epignosis wrote:I'll answer that question as soon as you point me to a single instance when probability ever did anything for me.

MovingPictures07 wrote:How about a different question:

If you had to choose, instinctively, do you believe my set of statements is due to the fact that I am indeed mafia with a new player on my team or due to some other reason?

Epignosis wrote:Is there a reason you're not forthcoming about my initial question?

MovingPictures07 wrote:Perhaps.

Epignosis wrote:OK then.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Newbie to the site. And I agree with you there. But no more than Day 1 or 2. It should give us enough time to get to know the new player while giving us a chance to feel out everyone else.
Gun to head read (if you have to pick immediately), civilian or mafia, for Epignosis, me, and sig. Go.

Epignosis wrote:I'm telling you up front I ain't answering any of this GTH bullshit.

And I ain't doing any ISOs.

And I damn sure ain't doing no rainbows reads. I've got Reading Rainbow, and that's enough rainbow reading for me.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Fair enough, of course, you're free to play however you want.
.... That's a shoving match if I ever saw one. Would you prefer pissing contest? I was never that fond of that one... and it's only chicks that say they're "going to go and get a ruler", so I didn't want to use those euphamisms. Shoving match.

Long Con, you say this is a shoving match or pissing contest. Can you elaborate? Why do you characterize my posts, which were trying to garner discussion, as both a shoving match and "good to see"? I'm not sure how to reconcile those two separate thoughts.

Spoiler: show

I do.

Regarding rainbow lists and such, I loved the technicolor lists from Biblical, and I even more love rainbow lists. That's just me. I don't get the hate at all. Nonetheless, regarding the requests from others, I will try to make my posts as easily readable as possible.

Golden, what are your thoughts? Suspects? Town reads? You have an impressive mafia brain, so don't mind while I stand here and pick it. I noted that you suspect S~V~S. Will you vote for her today? I noted you also have civ vibes from Epi and Gumshoe. What do you think of my observations above? Perhaps it would be best if you could build a spoilerized rainbow list of your current reads on everyone... if you feel so inclined.

Spoiler: show

Sloonei, Golden does aggressively pursue suspects on Day 0, from what I have seen. I also have been known to engage in it somewhat, as well as Epi, if something catches my or his eye, respectively. FZ. would do so as well, but she isn't playing this game. For most players, Day 0 is not such a hunting period, almost all of the time.

Spoiler: show

Hello, Gumshoe, mafia soulmate.

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3) Responses to Cobalt

Spoiler: show

Cobalt, I had to split up your post here into parts due to formatting reasons.

Response to first quote: Regarding 1., fair enough. What do you make of my opinion of him? Regarding 2., noted. However, can you see why the purpose of your statement can be seen as perhaps nefarious? So you're good, you didn't think that anyone else here is either? I could sit here and brag about my accomplishments, and so could many others, but none of us did so. So what was the real purpose of your statement? You say it was to say what you said in 2., but if that was the case, why not just say exactly what you said in 2.? I suppose I just don't understand your train of thought fully behind this.

Response to second quote: Can you elaborate in any way? Do you still feel this way after this post? If yes or no, why? Is there anything you want me to address?

Response to third quote: Noted. How do you think you would have reacted if it was a slight mafia read, moderate mafia read, or worse?

One last question: Can you fully elaborate your read on Long Con, please?

Thanks!

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4) General Observations

Spoiler: show

Note that DDL had no opinion of S~V~S. This could be relevant later, since S~V~S is currently a hot topic.

Spoiler: show

Also note that Turnip has no read on S~V~S.

Spoiler: show

Note that this forum does not like spoilers within spoilers, so I couldn't spoilerquote Turnip's case on Hedgeowl. His case can be found here.

Regarding Hedgeowl, I note you have many valid observations here, which do affect my view of her, but note my hesitation to commit to more than a 'very slight' read of her because:
1) She hasn't played mafia consistently in a while.
2) Her last few games she has been less active, I presume due to RL.
3) I have seen her as a civilian slow to commit to game-related talk early in games.

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5) More on S~V~S

Spoiler: show

Golden wrote:As for the rest of this post. It really makes me only feel worse about SVS. Responses in pink

S~V~S wrote:
Golden wrote:Epi just dropped the mic!

Now the case on SVS I sort of see. I could have used the word interesting in this thread, but the chances of me remembering whether I did or didn't is zero. Defending LC's use of the word while pointing out she did it herself I could definitely see as a potential move to make herself look better if LC flipped civ.

It's a little thing, but this is my first legitimate ping.
I did a search when Epi made a big deal of it, and three people had used it. I was one of them. When they came for me, to paraphrase that WW2 German pastor, there was no one left to speak for me. If Epi led a lynch on someone for use of a common word, I might be next.

Are you trying to suggest that you did not know you used the word interesting when you made that search? Then why did you make it? Isn't it a slightly odd thing to do to make a search of who used the word 'interesting'? Normally, if you disagreed with a word being suspicious, you would just say that - you wouldn't do a search. So we honest - did you remember you used it, or didn't you?

Golden wrote:Also, are you eating bean dip?

This is fun. Epi reminds me of me when I think I've caught baddies on day zero.

And did you?

Not relevant. When I said I got civ vibes from epi, I also said I didn't agree with his case on LC. It's about tone and approach, and this looks different to the way I'm used to epi questioning people.

It reminds me of Epi in almost every game I have ever played with him, good or bad, with his cryptic Day One (or Zero as the case may be) gambits & mind games. Yoni, as TGG told me it was called (repeatedly ) during Biblical.

You don't have to get civ vibes from epi - doesn't mean I can't.

Golden wrote:Hey, for the first time ever I'm getting civ vibes from Epi!

I don't agree with the case on LC, but I do agree that this game has not gotten in the least bit interesting (linki - sorry SVS!).

For me, the most interesting post this game is the one Cobalt posted, which Timmer quoted above. I think there are quite a number of players in this game who could point to games where they have played the super-civvie. Especially invoking the 'my most recent game' thing... and all in a comment where he purports not to care if we vote for him. Do I see potential civilian motives for posting it? Yes. It's not easy to have a voice in a place where you are not known, so making a cred grab isn't necessarily inherently suspicious.

But civilians don't usually go around flashing their supatown credentials.
Now I found this post interesting. What about him gave you that civ vibe? His back & forth with MP? His vaguely sneering tone? If you are getting a civvie vibe from him, what do you think of MP?

I have no read on MP. Nothing Epi did on MP had any relevance to me saying I got civ vibes from Epi, which given my timing on saying it (coming right after his case on LC) I think you know very well.

I have not made my mind up on Epi, but I gotta say (and he knows it) that I loathe his fishing expeditions, the way he throws fake suspicions out early in the game to gauge reactions, then drops them after Day One.

We don't know epi is going to drop anything after day 1 since it's still day 0.

And I don't like Rainbow lists, I don't like ANY lists this early in the game, especially with 2 mafias. With one mafia, the baddies already know who is who, or more precisely, who is a civ. Two mafias complicates things, and lists naming who people trust help the baddies at this stage; I will be happy to list those I don't trust, but not those that I do. And if I am alive to make a list later in the game, it will be not be a rainbow. We had a discussion about Rainbow lists in the mod forum, which prompted me to find my new nifty grey rainbow avatar. And I will look askew at those who use list posting as a litmus test.

I can appreciate that perspective. I took the same one into economics, and I got grumpy with people for wanting me to reveal too much of my thinking too early. I'm certainly not going to be making rainbow lists at an early stage in this game. BUT I'll consider making them later, and I don't begrudge those who do for making them.

If this is Day Zero Day One should be fabulous
All up - this post is exactly the kind of thing I expect from you if you are bad - you are throwing out generalisations to discredit epi, stuff like suggesting he will drop the suspicion after day 1. People who don't know epi, by the way, are picking up on this and it's making them think twice about epi. That's not necessarily a terrible thing, but certainly it's bad if people are only thinking you are bad because epi told them to...

For me there are two separate things in play. One is the case on SVS. One is Epi's alignment. I don't think you are bad because I think epi is civ. I think you are bad because I think your own posts make you look that way.

I find Golden's observations here valid and I agree with them.

Spoiler: show

I don't like this defense by S~V~S at all. It's not even a defense, really, it's shrugging off posts by Epi, where he already has been saying why he thinks she's bad. Instead of responding to those, S~V~S tries to flip it around on Epi here.

Spoiler: show

Epignosis wrote:
Sloonei wrote:That is an inordinately high number of suspicions to develop in such an early phase of the game. I've never played with SVS before and do not know anything about their usual playstyle, so I do not know quite what to make of all this yet. But I've found this Day 0 to be pretty interesting.
To be fair to S~V~S, only a couple of those items could be construed as "suspicions." I do try to keep things fresh (for myself at least) whenever a new game starts, and that has led to me using tactics and techniques that may seem unorthodox. That much is true.

But what doesn't smell right is this: If my Day 0 suspicions aren't genuine (i.e., mind games, fishing expeditions, cryptic gambits), then why does she feel the need to say the following?

S~V~S wrote:I did a search when Epi made a big deal of it, and three people had used it. I was one of them. When they came for me, to paraphrase that WW2 German pastor, there was no one left to speak for me. If Epi led a lynch on someone for use of a common word, I might be next.
This implies that I *could* lead a lynch against someone for using a common word, and that S~V~S believes that if I campaign against people using that word (I'm not, because that's a terrible simplification of my Long Con suspicion), I'll eventually get to her, as though I am capable of directing the thread as some rhetorical Pantokrator...

...yet...

S~V~S wrote:This feels somewhat distractionary to me. Either you don't want people to talk about the other discussion today, or maybe you're doing some rather fancy distancing with LC, since it is unlikely that he is going to get lynched over "interesting". Or maybe you are just doing some standard issue Epi mind games and intentionally enigmatic crap. Not sure which, maybe all, maybe none.
Despite implying that I could lynch all the people who had (up to that point) used the word "interesting," S~V~S says that it's unlikely Long Con will get lynched over "interesting."

So either I am serious about my suspicions but feeble to do anything about them, or I am faking my suspicions and S~V~S fears she will be on a list of people taken out by them.

These two ideas are not compatible.

I would like to hear elaboration from S~V~S on this issue, since I agree that the ideas are not compatible.

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6) Updated Rainbow List

This is how I am currently feeling about everyone in the game:

Spoiler: show

If any of you want elaboration regarding any number of these reads, please ask.

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Yikes!! This took way too much time. Again, please note my RL restrictions going forward, specifically the fact that I will be out of town Thursday through Sunday. I will try my best to continue contributing nonetheless.

I need to go now, but I'll be back once more just to read and vote, since I have to do homework, clean the apartment, and pack for tomorrow.

Linki w/ Golden: Here I am.

Fair enough, Gumshoe, I figured, but just thought I'd ask anyway.

I have to go, be back later. Feel free to revert back into Day 0 if any of you wish, but I, for one, was too impatient.

I have every intention to continue my newfound love of rainbow lists, if at all possible, since I do find them particularly helpful in organizing my own thoughts and feelings on players, and I have to keep up the self-imposed moniker of Rainbow Sockman somehow!

I will put them in spoiler tags though, so that people may read them at their discretion.

Spoiler: show

Come at me, Cobalt.

Gumshoe wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Cobalt wrote:My eye is on Devin almost immediately because of that joking truce thing. Mafia Cobalt tries to jokingly buddy up to people to see if they'd be receptive to it or not.

nutella wrote:
Long Con wrote: Here's the general rule I use with new players. If it comes down to a vote that's based on very little, I'll probably avoid going for them in the spirit of community friendliness. If there's a bigger or more stand-out suspicion on a new player, then I'll probably vote for them despite their newness.
Basically this
I don't give a fuck, y'all can vote for me whenever you want, if you want. Just keep in mind that the most recent mafia game I played my day 3 scum reads list was 5/6 accurate and I got MVP. I don't know you guys as well as that crowd but I do have decent instincts.
So because it is line with your mafia meta to do something, you extrapolate to mean that it is likely within someone else's meta, whom you've never met, as well?

Are you implying that we shouldn't vote for you because you have good instincts? What does that have to do with your alignment?
It's a decent theory. No one is ENTIRELY a unique little snowflake no matter what our mothers tell us. If one person thought of it then it's possible others have as well.

Mafia probably have better "instincts" than the rest of us anyway.

If you think it's a decent theory, then are you also suspecting Devin?

Thanks for putting up with my extended interrogation, Devin. This certainly won't be the end, but I wanted to take advantage of you being here at the same time as myself, early on, to try and pick your brain.

You won't be getting my vote on Day 1 unless something drastically changes. Neither will Epi.

Cobalt wrote:My eye is on Devin almost immediately because of that joking truce thing. Mafia Cobalt tries to jokingly buddy up to people to see if they'd be receptive to it or not.

nutella wrote:
Long Con wrote: Here's the general rule I use with new players. If it comes down to a vote that's based on very little, I'll probably avoid going for them in the spirit of community friendliness. If there's a bigger or more stand-out suspicion on a new player, then I'll probably vote for them despite their newness.
Basically this
I don't give a fuck, y'all can vote for me whenever you want, if you want. Just keep in mind that the most recent mafia game I played my day 3 scum reads list was 5/6 accurate and I got MVP. I don't know you guys as well as that crowd but I do have decent instincts.

So because it is line with your mafia meta to do something, you extrapolate to mean that it is likely within someone else's meta, whom you've never met, as well?

Are you implying that we shouldn't vote for you because you have good instincts? What does that have to do with your alignment?

Epignosis wrote:
Long Con wrote:I don't know what to think about the shoving match between MP and Epig yet.
Shoving match?

Indeed, I'm also curious as to what is meant exactly here.

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:Gun to head read
I'm telling you up front I ain't answering any of this GTH bullshit.

And I ain't doing any ISOs.

And I damn sure ain't doing no rainbows reads. I've got Reading Rainbow, and that's enough rainbow reading for me.

Fair enough, of course, you're free to play however you want.

Gumshoe, the green OT tag is indeed typically used for discussion that is irrelevant to the game. It's not mandatory, but it just makes it easier to discern what is meant to be taken as relevant and what isn't.

Devin the Omniscient wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Devin the Omniscient wrote:Speculation, MP. Not exactly serious speculation, either.
What do you make of sig?

What do you make of my policy regarding not lynching new players on Day 1?
Newbie to the site. And I agree with you there. But no more than Day 1 or 2. It should give us enough time to get to know the new player while giving us a chance to feel out everyone else.

By the way, WELCOME! to Sig! Feel free to not take me seriously if you don't think it's necessary
I was just going to say something about Epi's avatar, too!
Is it actually an avatar if it's him in the picture, though? :P

Gun to head read (if you have to pick immediately), civilian or mafia, for Epignosis, me, and sig. Go.

Gumshoe wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:***I would like to avoid voting a player completely new to The Syndicate on Day 1. I used to very vocally oppose those who took this view, but I have recently come around to this line of thinking. I do think it would suck to come to a new site and get lynched Day 1 your first game, so newbies will get a "free pass" from me, but only from my vote (not any suspicion I have), and if they are my top suspect going into Day 2, I will not hesitate to vote for a newbie.
Perfect! This mafia team of all newbies I am in is going to win this game so easily

By the way, MP, cool Day 0 idea for Death Note. Which option won?

Hey guys, I found a member of the mafia. Ready to have your minds blown? How many letters are in Sir Andrew Lloyd Webber? Arguably about 20 or so. And 20 has a 2 AAAAND a 0. What else has a 2 and a 0? 200. Only 200. Nothing else. How many digits in 200? 3 if you don't go into decimals and stuff. And Andrew Lloyd Webber divorced his first wife, when? Good job, class, '83. So 8. Who was the eighth person to vote? Long Con. What did he vote for? 1. Also, he did it one time. (That's additional evidence) How many digits in 1? 1. 1 as in first? Yes of course. What else would it be? Second? No first. Who was the first person to post? Dom. Dom is mafia.

I don't know how seriously I am going to be able to take Epignosis with that irresistible pout he's got going on in his avatar. Is it hot in here?

What makes you so sure?

Regarding Death Note, it was a tight race for a while there between Normal and L/Light, but Normal won it in the end.

Epi, your avatar is too much. It never fails to provide amusement.

Epignosis wrote:Making observations and asking questions is what a good little civilian is supposed to do. And I'm trying to be a good little civilian.

Instead of answering the question, you ask me a question about probability (the answer is 25% with anyone, just under 4% with a new person), then dodge the question a second time by asking me about my instinct regarding your "set of statements."

Is there a reason you're not forthcoming about my initial question?

Perhaps.

Devin the Omniscient wrote:Speculation, MP. Not exactly serious speculation, either.

What do you make of sig?

What do you make of my policy regarding not lynching new players on Day 1?

Devin the Omniscient wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Devin the Omniscient wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:and if I think that player is Devin, then I will vote for him. I have no propensity to vote for him at the moment, despite his truce comment, as I was merely joking with him.
And I will pull a big NO U and vote for you, too. It was indeed a joke, though :P

MovingPictures07 wrote:I think he would have said this regardless of alignment.
You know me too well

Linki: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!
Why did you joke about it, knowing very well it could preemptively create heat in my direction as well as yours?
I'm just simply having fun with you Buddy. I'm not actually frustrated right now :P It certainly has gotten discussion going, though lol.

And giving us heat on Day 0? It's what I do best, remember?

Linki: So he knows when we're BSing?

Why did you feel inclined to answer on behalf of sig?

sig wrote:I'm new myself to this forum and to mafia, however I wouldn't say we should get a free pass. Don't go after new people just because they are new to the site or if they are wall flowering in the first few phases, but if someone new is acting very scummy then I would vote for them. However, mafia could just as easily start a bandwagon on someone new so anyone that advocates to strongly to lynch a new player should be watched.

Meant Devin not MP, also didn't realize it was a joke if it is.

Is there any other things like the joking truce new players should know about? Like certain players always voting to lynch the same player on day one, or lynching someone if they survive the first night?

Why do you want to know these things?

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:***I would like to avoid voting a player completely new to The Syndicate on Day 1. I used to very vocally oppose those who took this view, but I have recently come around to this line of thinking. I do think it would suck to come to a new site and get lynched Day 1 your first game, so newbies will get a "free pass" from me, but only from my vote (not any suspicion I have), and if they are my top suspect going into Day 2, I will not hesitate to vote for a newbie.
Why? What changed your mind, that you should "very vocally oppose those who took this view" to "recently come around to this line of thinking?" The underlined was the exact same reasoning people gave, which you claim to have rejected that notion before, but now you are accepting it without offering any reason why.

That's a change of heart I was not expecting, especially slipped into a discussion about your history with Devin.

To put a finer point on it, I count exactly four brand new people in this. If you are bad with any number of them, your change of heart excuses you from voting them Day 1 (i.e., putting your money where your mouth is) all the while leaving yourself open to distance ("Yes, I'm quite suspicious of NEWGUY but as I already said Day 0, I won't vote a new person").
What likelihood would you give to this being the case in this game?
I'll answer that question as soon as you point me to a single instance when probability ever did anything for me.

How about a different question:

If you had to choose, instinctively, do you believe my set of statements is due to the fact that I am indeed mafia with a new player on my team or due to some other reason?

Devin the Omniscient wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:and if I think that player is Devin, then I will vote for him. I have no propensity to vote for him at the moment, despite his truce comment, as I was merely joking with him.
And I will pull a big NO U and vote for you, too. It was indeed a joke, though :P

MovingPictures07 wrote:I think he would have said this regardless of alignment.
You know me too well

Linki: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

Why did you joke about it, knowing very well it could preemptively create heat in my direction as well as yours?

Epignosis wrote:
MovingPictures07 wrote:***I would like to avoid voting a player completely new to The Syndicate on Day 1. I used to very vocally oppose those who took this view, but I have recently come around to this line of thinking. I do think it would suck to come to a new site and get lynched Day 1 your first game, so newbies will get a "free pass" from me, but only from my vote (not any suspicion I have), and if they are my top suspect going into Day 2, I will not hesitate to vote for a newbie.
Why? What changed your mind, that you should "very vocally oppose those who took this view" to "recently come around to this line of thinking?" The underlined was the exact same reasoning people gave, which you claim to have rejected that notion before, but now you are accepting it without offering any reason why.

That's a change of heart I was not expecting, especially slipped into a discussion about your history with Devin.

To put a finer point on it, I count exactly four brand new people in this. If you are bad with any number of them, your change of heart excuses you from voting them Day 1 (i.e., putting your money where your mouth is) all the while leaving yourself open to distance ("Yes, I'm quite suspicious of NEWGUY but as I already said Day 0, I won't vote a new person").

What likelihood would you give to this being the case in this game?

Neverwhere wrote:This is my first full game...how long do the days/nights play out and does this include day 0?

Days and Nights are 48/24. Day 0 usually transitions into Day 1.

In the recently finished Economics game, I made a post elucidating the Day 0 period. I'll quote it here, since there are several newbies playing this game (as there were in Economics):

MovingPictures07 wrote:Yay game!!

Very excited to be playing this awesome game, especially with the players who are new to The Syndicate!

I forgot to mention Day 0 in the sign-ups thread when you folks were asking about it. It is a tradition that developed back in the Lostpedia and associated mafia forum days before I started playing (2010), since I'm not completely aware of its origin.

That said, hosts typically utilize Day 0 for any combination of the following:
- Ease players into the game and make sure that all of them will be active participants
- Introduce the players to the theme off of which the game is based
- Provide something for Day 1 discussion
etc.

Traditionally, when I first started playing, hosts generally set up Day 0 polls in a fashion wherein there were several options, each of which benefited a certain group (i.e., civilians, mafia team 1, mafia team 2, SK). Often some players would have 'information' on the poll, with the host telling them which option would benefit their group. After the winning selection's results were demonstrated either immediately or later in the game, it gave not only the winning faction an item or ability to be used to help later on, but provided another piece of possible evidence on which to analyze whether someone is civilian or mafia.

Since the inception of The Syndicate, those types of Day 0 polls have largely fallen out of fashion, and the purposes seem to be more variant. I've seen Day 0 polls that were completely meaningless, some that awarded prizes individually (rather than factions), and some that have had a significant impact on the game. For example, in my recently hosted Death Note game, I gave the players the option to select from 8 different options for the lynch procedure for the remainder of the game. The option with the most votes is how all lynches would proceed for the remainder of the game (though I left that ambiguous, as some interpreted it might be Day 1 only).

Despite the varying uses for Day 0 polls on The Syndicate, perhaps the most common usage of Day 0 polls is to give players a fun way to interact before things get very serious during Day 1 (and an opportunity to nerd out about the theme) as well as possibly offer individual prizes, such as an extra lynch vote to be used at any time or removal from the Day 1 poll.

If I had to guess, since Russ came outright and said that no player has info, I would believe this poll probably falls into that category.

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