The Syndicate

Ricochet wrote:That sounds more complicated that I could have imagined, Kami. Glad it worked out.

boo, that sounds like the Leroy Jenkins version of a best case scenario

I mean, 4 people was good, but 9 people would have been better.

Spacedaisy wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Sorry about making you look like a fool, MM. I had an intense round of PM with MP on that, because he wanted my reaction on it. At first I was derp, then realized the "gravity" of the summon. But eventually I reached a best case scenario when you (Team Light) had checked L, Mello and Near and wanted two consecutive nights to take care of Watari and L, plus have Rem sacrifice to kill Mello & Near. I don't know why I didn't comply at this point, a bit of frustration at never getting to use my abilities, I suppose, and hearing that Kami values me only for the suicide part. :P But then I figured I'm not really important in this equation, Rem is. MP confirmed Watari's consecutive Days would not be invalidated or cancelled, so you still needed Rem's kills not to get in trouble. Either my nights would have been first and you'd have manage just to kill L after which N/M would have roamed free throughout normal D/N cycles, either Watari's Days were first and then throughout my nights N/M would have have also searched for you. Bad news either way.

Then the plan did in fact get in motion with Watari dying and I concluded the ship had sailed for my contribution in any way.

On the contrary. I actually pulled for keeping you around as much as possible. That was kind of a move of desperation. We knew if we didn't we would have to pass the note and hope for the best. And the best came along anyway, so it all worked out. We also did not intend to kill watari like that but when we checked we had BR vs. boom. yotsuba or Watari. We decided to go watari and pass the note, hunker down for the double day cycle and go from there. boo knew I was in chat with L at the time and if the day ended he could pull Epi in and find out if I lied, or if Epi was lynched while L was alive I would be toast too. And we saw what looked like a power grab by DH and TH so we dropped the hint to boo and hoped he knew exactly what we had in mind. And he did. In fact, he did a better job than I could have ever even imagined. It was your secret votes that made me realize I had to drop that note like a hot potato TH. One wrong move and I would be accidentally lynched with the death note in my possession. Anyway, best case scenario for me was having you aroundto pass the note to at the end Rico. Unfortunately we got some wires crossed it seems. Sorry you didn't get to hold the death note. I was planning on giving it to you too.

That wasn't even picking up the hint from you guys.

I just came in and Bass was actually in our BTSC and around before the lynch was ending, llama (I was pretty sure he was L at this point) had votes, I was able to put myself in a position to take votes by turning around and voting llama instead of Epi. So I was able to get Bass to do what I wanted (take the eye deal, although he seemed pretty certain he was going to do it from the start of our BTSC), we both put our secret votes on llama, and I just killed the two of them right before the lynch ended and hoped I was right about llama.

I had considered giving you guys the signal to work towards getting him killed when he and I first got BTSC, and I really only helped him because I figured the longer the notes were in his hands, the better for you. And the other Yotsuba worked against us the whole game, so I didn't really want to help them win. When he killed Rico I was a little annoyed I hadn't given him more about who to target, but not knowing Ace and LC were both Yotsuba made me figure I should just give him all the possible Yotsuba's left and hope he wouldn't kill any of you that were killable.

Ricochet wrote:Sorry about making you look like a fool, MM. I had an intense round of PM with MP on that, because he wanted my reaction on it. At first I was derp, then realized the "gravity" of the summon. But eventually I reached a best case scenario when you (Team Light) had checked L, Mello and Near and wanted two consecutive nights to take care of Watari and L, plus have Rem sacrifice to kill Mello & Near. I don't know why I didn't comply at this point, a bit of frustration at never getting to use my abilities, I suppose, and hearing that Kami values me only for the suicide part. :P But then I figured I'm not really important in this equation, Rem is. MP confirmed Watari's consecutive Days would not be invalidated or cancelled, so you still needed Rem's kills not to get in trouble. Either my nights would have been first and you'd have manage just to kill L after which N/M would have roamed free throughout normal D/N cycles, either Watari's Days were first and then throughout my nights N/M would have have also searched for you. Bad news either way.

Then the plan did in fact get in motion with Watari dying and I concluded the ship had sailed for my contribution in any way.

You would have suicided, Daisy would have used her extra kill, I would have used the two I had, Daisy would have killed 4 more people over the extra 2 nights, bam, 9 people dead. It would have been awesome.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

Ricochet wrote:Also interesting that every Kira made the Eye Deal, Kami included. I would have, too.

I would have made the Eye Deal ASAP, especially knowing you can win if you die.

I told them multiple times they should. They didn't take it until role secrets were revealed so we knew that we needed it.

That was an aspect of the game that I believe benefited the Sympathizers far more than the other players.

It was less about not being useful and more about it was Mata you guys were pushing to take the deal, and I couldn't let that happen. I didn't trust either of you pretty much from the start (when Daisy told me when I first came in that she didn't have an extra win condition, I was 99% sure she was starting our BTSC by lying, and then there was the be wary of those you trust message).

thellama73 wrote:

boo wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote: What do you think he is?

I am continually mystified by this attitude. This isn't pool. You don't have to call your shot. I don't know who boo is, but I think his motives are impure. He might be Higuchi, he might be Kira X. He might be Light. I just think he is bad.

No, you think Epi will vote for me because he said he would, so you did.

Can't it be both?

No, because the reason you gave was a lie.

thellama73 wrote:

FZ. wrote: What do you think he is?

I am continually mystified by this attitude. This isn't pool. You don't have to call your shot. I don't know who boo is, but I think his motives are impure. He might be Higuchi, he might be Kira X. He might be Light. I just think he is bad.

No, you think Epi will vote for me because he said he would, so you did.

Very incorrectly.

Metalmarsh89 wrote:

boo wrote:Pretty obvious llama is Higuchi.

He started out strong, because he had to, because he's llama.

He got BTSC with L, and didn't claim a role to get L to trust him, like most people who get BTSC with L would, but it wasn't enough for L to go either way on him. L would find the lack of a claim acceptable, because it's llama.

He refused to name names for who he thought was Higuchi when questioned, because he didn't want to be responsible for the result.

He jumped on my calling out Epi for the role, because that's an obvious fit, it fit into what llama has claimed he believes is true, and he didn't have to be the one to actually say it.

After his normal start, he quieted down, because he didn't want attention when he did get the note.

No way. Have you read my back-and-forth with TH today? It's pretty clear where TH is aligning himself right now, and I feel I've made his intentions clear today. That said, llama cannot possibly be Higuchi.

Are you Higuchi?

He can and is.

You and your ilk know that I'm not. But come at me, oh wait, you can't yet, can you? I have a few phases left.

Pretty obvious llama is Higuchi.

He started out strong, because he had to, because he's llama.

He got BTSC with L, and didn't claim a role to get L to trust him, like most people who get BTSC with L would, but it wasn't enough for L to go either way on him. L would find the lack of a claim acceptable, because it's llama.

He refused to name names for who he thought was Higuchi when questioned, because he didn't want to be responsible for the result.

He jumped on my calling out Epi for the role, because that's an obvious fit, it fit into what llama has claimed he believes is true, and he didn't have to be the one to actually say it.

After his normal start, he quieted down, because he didn't want attention when he did get the note.

I'm voting llama. I also kind of want to vote Epi, and that was the direction I was leaning, but now I'm not. For now. I think a llama lynch will be more interesting.

FZ. wrote:Boo, if I had done it to get Mikami to commit suicide or whatever, why would I wait for the last second? Pretty stupid if you ask me. Give Mikami 4 minutes to get my message. Yep, makes a lot of sense

Well that's the thing about last ditch efforts, they tend to be the last thing you try, and you only try them when time is down to the wire.

DharmaHelper wrote:

boo wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

boo wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

But there aren't a lot of possibilities for your role now that you've survived a lynch, and you seemed to have prior knowledge about when the NK would take place, and who would be killed (and it seems to me like you already knew their role, which means you've taken the eye deal I think).

Boo can you elaborate on this?

What part of it?

Everything bolded and underlined.

Ya.

During the last lynch, right before the kill:

FZ. wrote:I just want to remind you all, that we haven't had a NK yet and I don't know when it's going to come, but if a certain role is killed, it could have a big effect on the lynch as well.

The NK was 4 minutes later. Boomslang (Watari, obviously) being lynched, did have a big result, it caused two straight lynches. So it seems to me like FZ knew that was coming. She was also already pushing lynch discussion for the next lynch after Boomslang died, which makes me think she knew this would be the follow up.

Or she was set up, and played right into it and the actual Boomslang killer is just sitting back and enjoying watching it happen.

Which is WIFOM, but I don't think, in this situation, it's a back and forth I have to go through a lot.

MM probably knew his team had killed Watari and wanted to cancel out the two days thing with Mikami's ability.

Yes, I was thinking that to answer what TH had asked. So, FZ's post before the kill was a last ditch effort to get Mikami to do what they wanted (or an absurd coincidence).

DharmaHelper wrote:

boo wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

But there aren't a lot of possibilities for your role now that you've survived a lynch, and you seemed to have prior knowledge about when the NK would take place, and who would be killed (and it seems to me like you already knew their role, which means you've taken the eye deal I think).

Boo can you elaborate on this?

What part of it?

Everything bolded and underlined.

Ya.

During the last lynch, right before the kill:

FZ. wrote:I just want to remind you all, that we haven't had a NK yet and I don't know when it's going to come, but if a certain role is killed, it could have a big effect on the lynch as well.

The NK was 4 minutes later. Boomslang (Watari, obviously) being lynched, did have a big result, it caused two straight lynches. So it seems to me like FZ knew that was coming. She was also already pushing lynch discussion for the next lynch after Boomslang died, which makes me think she knew this would be the follow up.

Or she was set up, and played right into it and the actual Boomslang killer is just sitting back and enjoying watching it happen.

Which is WIFOM, but I don't think, in this situation, it's a back and forth I have to go through a lot.

DharmaHelper wrote:

But there aren't a lot of possibilities for your role now that you've survived a lynch, and you seemed to have prior knowledge about when the NK would take place, and who would be killed (and it seems to me like you already knew their role, which means you've taken the eye deal I think).

Boo can you elaborate on this?

What part of it?

FZ. wrote:

boo wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

boo wrote:Alright, does this mean what I think it means?

FZ seems to have seen that coming. She's Light, gave up the note to Higuchi so she wouldn't be lynched, but now Higuchi can be.

Now, if you're anything like me, Epi has been the obvious Higuchi for most of the game, and he has tried to take cover behind making it look like he's just a regular Yotsuba. I do not believe he's a regular Yotsuba (and even if he is, for me, that's not a loss, which I hope I've made clear by this point).

So... Epi already thought FZ was probably Light, and was pushing for her lynch to make her give up the note, so that he could get it?

Are there any other good Higuchi candidates? Anyone who has previously survived an attempt (that isn't FZ, if we're working under the assumption she's Light, which I can accept and work into other things I believe) is a candidate, but I don't think it is any of them.

My read of Epi is that everything he's done has been driven by a desire not to be lynched or Nked. If he was Higuchi and thought that FZ was Light, it would be the last thing he'd want to do to get her lynched. Because he'd be invincible without his DN.

What about winning though? Does it make sense that Higuchi could be an unkillable role the entire game and win?

So when I said it before, you had nothing to say, but now you've decided to suggest this option? And if he's Higuchi, I don't think he can even know who Light is. In any case, I'm not Light. But you, are just all over the place. Name one person since the game has started, that you called baddie and actually turned out to be one. I mean a Kira, not Yotsuba

I'm not saying he knows who Light is, I'm saying he thinks he knows. And with L being alerted to when a note changes hands, it could just be an attempt to set you up if Epi is Higuchi and the note did move.

But there aren't a lot of possibilities for your role now that you've survived a lynch, and you seemed to have prior knowledge about when the NK would take place, and who would be killed (and it seems to me like you already knew their role, which means you've taken the eye deal I think).

And the game isn't over yet, and I've called lots of people baddies. So I could be right or wrong lots of times. I don't really see your point. How many times have you been right? Once?

DharmaHelper wrote:

boo wrote:Alright, does this mean what I think it means?

FZ seems to have seen that coming. She's Light, gave up the note to Higuchi so she wouldn't be lynched, but now Higuchi can be.

Now, if you're anything like me, Epi has been the obvious Higuchi for most of the game, and he has tried to take cover behind making it look like he's just a regular Yotsuba. I do not believe he's a regular Yotsuba (and even if he is, for me, that's not a loss, which I hope I've made clear by this point).

So... Epi already thought FZ was probably Light, and was pushing for her lynch to make her give up the note, so that he could get it?

Are there any other good Higuchi candidates? Anyone who has previously survived an attempt (that isn't FZ, if we're working under the assumption she's Light, which I can accept and work into other things I believe) is a candidate, but I don't think it is any of them.

My read of Epi is that everything he's done has been driven by a desire not to be lynched or Nked. If he was Higuchi and thought that FZ was Light, it would be the last thing he'd want to do to get her lynched. Because he'd be invincible without his DN.

What about winning though? Does it make sense that Higuchi could be an unkillable role the entire game and win?

I feel like I've missed some new llama revelation.

Alright, does this mean what I think it means?

FZ seems to have seen that coming. She's Light, gave up the note to Higuchi so she wouldn't be lynched, but now Higuchi can be.

Now, if you're anything like me, Epi has been the obvious Higuchi for most of the game, and he has tried to take cover behind making it look like he's just a regular Yotsuba. I do not believe he's a regular Yotsuba (and even if he is, for me, that's not a loss, which I hope I've made clear by this point).

So... Epi already thought FZ was probably Light, and was pushing for her lynch to make her give up the note, so that he could get it?

Are there any other good Higuchi candidates? Anyone who has previously survived an attempt (that isn't FZ, if we're working under the assumption she's Light, which I can accept and work into other things I believe) is a candidate, but I don't think it is any of them.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:Bass's third "suspect", llama, has vanished from his radar, replaced by yet another unlynchable (and in this case pretty much confirmed) baddie. Is there a reason for that? Does that make sense?

sorry but like said before I wasnt really paying attention when I made that list.

You're here. You're posting. Address this:

At one point, you agreed with TH's suspicion of MM. Fine, good.

And then you identified your top three suspects as:

TH
MM
llama

*In that order*. Which tells me you are a liar. If you actually agreed with TH that MM was suspect, it would make more sense for MM to be at the top of your list, followed by TH. That you (consciously or otherwsie) ordered your list the way you did makes me certain that you were just throwing names up. No detective would do that, no matter how far behind they were.

I wanted to put MM and TH together at one and two. TH did make good points about MM . But the more I thought about it the more I was having trouble trusting either at the time.

Isn't this also an idea you suggested DH, that TH and MM were being absurd in thread because they're both baddie shingami who aren't worried and are doing some weird kind of distancing?

Bass doesn't seem to be putting it the same way, but it sounds like the same argument to me. And if there's one person who wouldn't know you already brought it up, Bass would be a strong contender (if he's being honest about how little he's kept caught up, but who knows?).

ugh, linki , you people interrupt me to much.

You guys are losing me. But I don't agree we should blindly follow TH and vote for him because he says we should, because that just seems like a ploy to hold onto the kill.

So, I'm voting FZ.

Turnip Head wrote:

boo wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Seriously guys, dogpile your votes onto me. An FZ lynch will be a wasted lynch; I am nearly certain she is not Light, so you might as well waste the lynch by voting for me because at least some good will come out of it. My role will be revealed and you'll know I'm not working with the baddies. I could gain BTSC with L and fill him in on a lot of things that have happened. I believe I know who Light's entire team is, but I will need L's help to get rid of them.

I know it's asking a lot, but I'm asking that the detectives trust me.

Ok, sure, I'll ask the obvious.

Why are we supposed to believe you aren't one of 2 baddie shingami, and want votes piled on you because your team wants Light (FZ) to not be at risk of being lynched so you can keep a hold of the kill?

Lynch me and find out. If I'm a bad shinigami, you can lynch FZ tomorrow.

... which leaves the death note in the hands of Light for an extra kill. Why would we want to do that?

Turnip Head wrote:Seriously guys, dogpile your votes onto me. An FZ lynch will be a wasted lynch; I am nearly certain she is not Light, so you might as well waste the lynch by voting for me because at least some good will come out of it. My role will be revealed and you'll know I'm not working with the baddies. I could gain BTSC with L and fill him in on a lot of things that have happened. I believe I know who Light's entire team is, but I will need L's help to get rid of them.

I know it's asking a lot, but I'm asking that the detectives trust me.

Ok, sure, I'll ask the obvious.

Why are we supposed to believe you aren't one of 2 baddie shingami, and want votes piled on you because your team wants Light (FZ) to not be at risk of being lynched so you can keep a hold of the kill?

Has he punished every single missed vote though, or does it take more than one (like two in back to back lynches)?

Maybe one of you lazy, good for nothing vote-missers could enlighten us?

Turnip Head wrote:Who's left?

It's either 0 or 1 I think...

DP and Mata.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

DharmaHelper wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Epignosis wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

The Sockface Death Note Mafia Trivia Game Show

Question 3:
How many players have already satisfied their win conditions?

1

Incorrect.

You may not answer any more questions. A new player may attempt to answer this question.

Shouldn't that be "you may not answer any more questions yet."

Should it? I never said if we were allowing more than one cycle through the players. Wait and find out.

Every time one player gives an answer, he may not again until every single other player has done so.

:P

Oh rly?

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:

The Sockface Death Note Mafia Trivia Game Show

Question 1:
How many Death Notes are currently in circulation?

One.

Incorrect.

You may not answer any more questions. A new player may attempt to answer this question.

Two.

I am voting FZ.

DharmaHelper wrote:Some cursory thoughts while I continue to read:

Boo Vs. ...Well, Kinda Everybody? - I've been reading boo as genuine thus far, even if he was wrong about Bea. Boo has always struck me as the sort of player to be very confident (to a fault perhaps) in his suspects. His tunnel vision is perhaps he most obvious flaw, and I'm interested to see how his suspicions develop.

MM vs. TH - They've both survived lynches, so that narrows down who they could be quite considerably. Of the two, I'm most confident in trusting TH for now, as I'm seeing a more involved play style from him rather than from MM, whose posts of late have rung pretty false to me. MM does not seem interested in defending himself or seeking out mafia, whereas at least TH has been making a show of looking for Kiras and helping detectives. A little voice in the back of my head is stuck wondering though if perhaps this back-and-forth love story they have going is designed to make us trust one or the other. Perhaps they are two unlynchables on the same team going after each other in an effort to help themselves get their win conditions accomplished.

Matahari - I'm getting odd vibes from her and might do a specific re-read of her. I'm wondering Mata, why is it you trust me?

Juliets - I'm noticing a lot of "can you please post the case on X again I seem to have forgotten it." In regards to my own experience, these posts from JC are often in regards to conversations we've already had, and cases that she has commented on. Pingy, but nothing I would stick a vote on just yet.

FZ. - I will be re-reading her shortly.

Black Rock - Not sold on her being bad as much as I was previously. Mostly due to the clusterfuck bringing more interesting suspects to light

Boomslang - That vote for bea was the absolute most noteworthy thing from him I can remember all game.

If my theory that TH And MM are Shinigami on the same team is true, Then the MM voters are worth a look.

If you aren't playing versus everyone, you're playing wrong. It's the only reason I can ever shake off (some) tunnel vision.

Ricochet wrote:I'll have to chime in bit by bit, to every topic, because this afternoon I have to do test preparations and I'll be home late this evening and won't be spending as much time online as usual afterwards either.

Not sure I like Bass's response to boo.
Bass stated his top two suspects and players he'd vote for today are TH and MM.
He says he knows (?) their roles are "non-Kiras that can survive", but still doesn't see why they shouldn't be voted again.

If he claims TH and MM are unlynchable non-Kiras, then we have the following options:
- TH and/or MM are Shinigami. They cannot be lynched at all, only outed upon a second vote.
- TH and/or MM are Near/Mello. They cannot be lynched until L dies.

Judging by this, any result from lynching TH and MM again will result in another no lynch (with or without an outing) aka the least effective lynch result possible for the detectives.

So my questions are:
Why did Bass exclude the variants that TH and MM might be unlynchable Kiras (Light or Misa if they give up DN ownership under lynch pressure, or Higuchi), and
If Bass thinks TH and MM are unlynchable non-Kiras, why does he think a non-lynch result is the best option to go with

Bass also stated Llama as his third suspect and player to vote for (not more important than TH/MM, though), but I think his reasoning is too meta. "Llama pose a question I myself pose in a previous game where the answer was Llama, so what if / maybe / perhaps / etc. Llama pose himself a smokescreen question with the answer being again himself".

---

Boo, what do you make of bea getting killed? Don't think I've seen a reaction to it from you. You were pretty adamant in your belief that she is Light. I know you are currently searching for a potential Mikami / Symphatizer, but how does this kill change your beliefs in who Light might be.

---

I really have to ponder the most on Epig's numbers and FZ's rebuttal, but picking up some of her ideas from the latter:
"So, if we agree that if Russ got me role checked and got a baddie role, his vote would depend on whether that role could be lynched or not." I suppose this could be true.
"If he got an unlynchable role, he'd say he thinks I'm bad, but he doesn't think I should be voted." I suppose this could be true.
"The only way he'd vote me is if actually got Mikami or whatever baddie role that can be lynched." Here's where I'm not so sure. If we agree Light/Misa would relinquish their DN under lynch pressure and become temporarily unlynchable, are you suggesting we shouldn't even attempt to lynch them because it would be pointless? Why? And what other "baddie role that can be lynched" is there, besides Mikami?

My ideas are the following:
- If Russ was Mogi and checked you and got a bad role that can't be lynched at all right now (Higuchi, Ryuk, Rem) or Sidoh, he may have indeed tried to suggest we pursue another lynch.
- If Russ was Mogi and checked you and got a bad role that can be lynched (Mikami), he would have 100% suggested we pursue lynching you.
- If Russ was Mogi and checked you and got a bad role that might fail to be lynched right now (Light, Misa), he might have still suggested we pursue lynching you.

Unfortunately there are secrets to Mogi's role that have yet not been deciphered, as to make perhaps more sense of his tactics.

---

linki: Llama, if you think there's no way she's an unlynchable player, do you think she's Mikami? If not, would you still vote to lynch her?

linki: FZ, you've outed yourself as an unlynchable or as a certain role?

Each topic free to snip.

I had a bea post started, but it wasn't actually anything useful, to much WIFOM for trying to figure out who would have done it, because the kill was basically a giant fuck you, unless I'm even more wrong about bea than I thought. One thing I really still think about her is that she had BTSC, and given she was NKed, there's still a bunch of possibilites, to varying degrees of the baddies wanting that role dead ASAP (beyond just the reason of shutting down civ BTSC).

I had been leaning Mikami on FZ, but given her unlynchable claim, she could fit Light, Ryuk, Misa, or Rem. I don't think she's any of those 4, because I do not believe she has BTSC. That means a few civ possibilites, Higuchi, or (possibly, but I doubt it) Sidoh. But, I was wrong on bea's alignment, so I don't know if I was right she had BTSC, so maybe I'm wrong that FZ doesn't. And FZ could also just be lying about being unlynchable. But the only way to know that is to test it, and since she could be Light or Misa, forcing her to become unlynchable (done by giving up her DN) seems like a really good play, because it means L should know the note changes hands, and can use the gossip portion of his role to let us know that.

zeek wrote:I'm going to try to look at DP tomorrow. I find it strangle boo didn't include him, considering I have about double his posts. I'm also suspicious of boo because of his "questioning" techniques that involve zero questions.

I'm still wary of FZ. She sounded genuine in her defence but I can't help feeling there is a reason Epi is going after her so hard.

From when I wrote about you:

Now, all that, doesn't necessarily really make me all that suspicious of zeek, I think it's just me not agreeing with how he defines safe play vs. flying under the radar. But I do find how he phrased things that he thinks to be inconsistent, and giving him the benefit of the doubt there over that kind of inconsistency isn't how I do things. So, it results in some suspicion created. I'd at least like to see him discuss what he thinks, what he meant, etc. The kind of thing that I don't think was adequately questioned at the time."

I said what I wanted to see from you. You refused to discuss it, closing off discussion I could actually have with you, making asking you actual questions difficult. You have yet to give TH a straight answer to a simple question, so I'm not sure why you think my not asking you pointed questions would be a good use of my time, when everything you've done since I started discussing you have run contrary to the idea that you're willing to answer anything.

zeek wrote:I'm going to try to look at DP tomorrow. I find it strangle boo didn't include him, considering I have about double his posts. I'm also suspicious of boo because of his "questioning" techniques that involve zero questions.

I'm still wary of FZ. She sounded genuine in her defence but I can't help feeling there is a reason Epi is going after her so hard.

I already discussed DP.

Done reading Boomslang.

He was more active up until Day 3 (in comparison to zeek and Bass). He actually offered his own thoughts, was a part of the discussion, etc. Not all stuff I agree with (and stuff I was suspicious of him at the time for), but at least actual stuff. Since Day 3, he has mostly dropped off, making a few posts during each cycle.

Could just be because he got busy, but the thread was the busiest in the early game, and has (somewhat) toned down since, so it's a little odd to me that given how active he was able to be when things were moving fast, he has been barely able to keep up at all since things slowed down.

For in-game conclusions, it makes me wonder if he got BTSC during or around N3, which would mean he could be Misa or Rem, and he dropped off posting in thread, because most of his activity and attention went to things in BTSC instead.

So, Boom:
If it isn't you, who would you say your top contenders for Misa and Rem are?

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I not sure who to vote for yet. I'm going to think about it, and come back to vote later.

Does anyone else find it strange that Made forgot the one of the Sympathizers was dead? It almost makes me wonder if he could be Yotsuba and their secret win condition isn't effected by having the Sympathizers dead.

Ok, well. I did a read of Bass now.

Of 50 posts, this is the only one I want to quote, but first, most of his posts are:
1) Telling us he's getting caught up.
2) Telling us he has caught up.
3) Saying goodbye to the person who gets killed.
4) Telling us he's currently busy and well get caught up later.
5) Quoting people and offering a one or two sentence thought.
6) Quoting people he agrees with and using their reason to vote.
7) Voting without quoting, and just vaguely saying he agrees with the suspicion.

So, bass, questions for you:
1) Can you name the 3 people your most suspicious of and think you will vote for today.
2) Without quoting people, can you give reasons why you think those 3 people are the most suspicious? And I do mean reasons, not just saying Person A, Person B, and Person C, because they're suspicious.
3) We know you were right that Made was Yotsuba. Do you still think the reason Made seemed to have forgot a Sympathizer was dead was because it wasn't important to his win condition?

zeek wrote:RIP Bea Pretty sure you were on the level.

@boo

I am here early and late. You post early or late in my British day and I'm likely to be online. I'm not just popping up to defend myself, nor do I "make up" reasons to vote for people. How about asking some fucking questions instead of making faulty conclusions?

It's getting pretty clear to me you're trying to put me in an unwinnable situation. I own my actions and explain them and I'm avoiding accountability. I wait for suspects to emerge because of lack of time and I'm hanging back and being blendy, even though you said you like to do the same. I respond to you and all you have is further questions and twists on my words. All you have is WIFOM and it's beginning to grate. I'll take criticism but not manipulation.

But that's cool, I'd rather you vote for me than chat more of this utter shit.

You've made more posts to defend yourself in about a 12 hour window than you had for days before the suspicion combined. So you're able to post, you've just chosen not to prior to now.

You don't own your actions, and you've actually said you won't explain them. So yes, you're avoiding accountability. I don't wait for suspects to emerge as the reason to hold back my vote, I wait to see what, if any, new discussion occurs, so I can use my vote in the way I think is best. You're saving yours (or at least, would be if you were actually saving your vote) to join a bandwagon. I guess if we want to use the time reason, you aren't waiting, because you can't, so you vote earlier than you may like (before the lynch is already decided), but you still make an effort to just vote for the person who gets lynched (without offering anything to the discussion yourself, or when you, offering some really questionable stuff, like with Snowman).

Yes, responding to me will get you more questions. It's a back-and-forth, that's how it works. You haven't said enough in the game for me to get a real read on you, so yes, I'm looking to put you in a position where you'll come out of the shadows and give me something to form an opinion on you. So far? Not feeling eased. Is it a lose-lose for you? No, you could have been more reasonable, everything you've said could have been shifted in a way that would make me feel better about you, but so far, you just feel like a baddie who has been called out for playing a safe game, and is just grumpy about it.

zeek wrote:As for the Kira behavioural study, I changed my thoughts on that days ago. The suspicions fly around so fast and furiously in this game that there would be no point for the to play a safe game because anybody could be lynched any day. There's a middle ground of non-aggressive, at the forefront player that is the best best.

Can you quote where you let us know about your change of thoughts, please and thanks?

zeek wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:However, your more specific thoughts regarding Zeek are more compelling to me, I like the work you did there. His vote for Snowman still feels out of place, and it appears that Zeek himself is willing to admit that, though he says he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Could be something there.

What more is there to say about it? I looked for something to sway me toward a candidate and that post I referenced struck me as odd wording. I could have just reiterated a point made by somebody else and voted any player, but I didn't. I voted for what pinged me most. By the looks of it I should have just done whatever was easiest cause I'm getting criticism still for my first vote.

Your Snowman vote was easy. It was Day 2, at the time of your vote, Snowman already had 4 votes, llama had 3, a couple people had 1, and BWT (who wound up getting lynched) had 0. You didn't quote and use suspicion from someone else to justify your vote, you just made up a reason to vote for (at the time) the highest vote getter. It's interesting, because looking at your voting record, that is how you cast most of your votes.

You have claimed you like to wait until the end of the lynch is near, so you can see the most discussion, and vote for who you think is bad based on that. Your record doesn't show that, you vote early-middle, and you exclusively vote for people who already have 2 votes (and in every lynch you voted before being the fifth voter, the person you voted did still wind up being the top vote getter).

Your claim is you don't have time to put a lot of thought into your votes. But as soon as I bring your name up, you're able to come into the thread and make a string of posts about why I am wrong. So you have time to try and avoid suspicion, but you don't have time to establish good suspicions?

Turnip Head wrote:I finished reading your case(s), boo. I have to say I'm not sure I see what you see in the 4 people you plucked out. I don't see what connection there is among the four of them, other than that all 4 fit the profile of "active, but slightly under the radar". Is this the only thing that ties them all together? I saw your vote record analysis, I'm just not sure I understand what conclusion you made from it.

However, your more specific thoughts regarding Zeek are more compelling to me, I like the work you did there. His vote for Snowman still feels out of place, and it appears that Zeek himself is willing to admit that, though he says he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Could be something there.

I wasn't trying to draw conclusions on the 4 of them in the lynch record post, I just found their records to be similar, and all 4 of them are people who have gone almost entirely undiscussed. There's more to why those four specifically (there are other people with vote records that don't quite match, but are similar) but with these four, there are certain detective roles (that I think are still alive) that they almost certainly aren't, because of how they've voted. That, in addition to my thinking their play styles have all been what at least some Kira are probably playing like (and specifically Mikami), makes me want to take a closer look.

I started with zeek, because I had already done readings earlier in the game on boomslang and bass, so it'll just be a matter of updating those thoughts (which shouldn't take long given neither of them have been very active), and I'm least interested in looking at juliets (I also didn't have the time to go over all of her posts when I went over zeeks), so she wasn't the priority.

zeek wrote:I haven't been the most talkative this game but that's due to RL. Anyone whose played with me before can tell you I'm a high poster when I have the time, but a lot of weird shit has happened this game and I haven't had the time to investigate all the possibilities I want to.

I'm not going over my Snowman vote again. It was my first day in the game and it's far more difficult to have anything to go on when you haven't been emotionally invested reading posts (as I hadn't following the game before replacing in). Have I had some poor reasons for voting the way I did? Yes. Have I lynched a detective? No. I haven't lynched a Kira either, but nobody has.

As for Zomba, I think she was playing it safe but that's a matter of opinion. Am I playing it safe? Damn right I am. I will own everything I've said and done in this game but the truth is I just haven't had the time to get into it properly. When I do, you'll see me posting a lot and discussing more, but I've had to play it safe. By all means, twist those words however you want but do not think for a second I've been intentionally flying under the radar. I've given my opinions but my opinions are few because I don't have a proper handle on the game. It's that simple and sad.

Non-aggressive players aren't ALL playing it safe or flying low, and just because you can't see where I draw the line it doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I would like to invite L to investigate me and save everyone the trouble of debating my terminology in the future

As for this post:

1) You're already trying to shut down one area of discussion, when you agree you haven't discussed much. You don't get to set those terms, I'm giving reasons I suspect you, to give you the opportunity to respond. Refusing to discuss something that wasn't fully addressed in the limited way it was previously discussed isn't helpful. It completely goes against " I will own everything I've said and done in this game".

2) You say you'll own what you've said and done, after refusing to own something you've said and done. And the fact is (and you've also agreed with this) is that there isn't much you've said and done for you to own. What little there is, I'm trying to discuss with you so you can be held accountable for it, and you claim you're fine with that, but then you're also trying to avoid accountability.

And you finish by trying to reduce the suspicions I have of you as nothing but a disagreement in terminology, while expecting an anonymous civ to choose to pick you so they can discuss it with you, after talking about how you're unwilling to discuss it.

zeek wrote:Also boo, your last paragraph really doesn't make any sense to me.

You think because we agree on things that's suspicious, but then plenty of people disagree with us, so how is that a baddie thing? And why would I say what to look for in a baddie and then intentionally adopt those characteristics? It's upsetting you think I'd be that stupid.

We agree on the style baddies are likely to play. You've played using that style. So yes, that's a potential baddie thing.

You only estimated you'd eliminate half the players from being potential baddies based on the safe play method being the baddie strategy. That's still lots of people left who can play like that, and not all of them can be bad. But you recognized it, you discussed it, you still seemed to know the people most likely to be lynched are the more aggressive players (and have voted many times in ways inconsistent with thinking people like that are baddies, which means in your votes, you aren't trying to hunt baddies). All of that put together, plus that you have been busy, gives you the means to excuse the way you've been playing (that you agree is the way at least some baddies probably are), while still suspecting other people with similar behaviour (but without pursuing them with your own vote).

I've decided to read zeek first.

I was going along, and up until this post from D2, the blendiness was strong.

zeek wrote:I don't feel good about voting for anybody, but I have to because I need to sleep. I've looked into most of the main players being talked about and this post pinged me harder than others.

Snowman wrote:Buuuuuuuut, it is a social deduction game. Maybe good civvies behave differently, if this were live, I'd be looking at faces and body language. On a bulletin board, we look at posts, and something about how I post strikes some as a Stone-Cold-Kira. I'm not disappointed, but I want to improve and better support my team in the future, while still having fun. Maybe one day I will earn the "Well, that's just him, he's always like that" status that Epi and Russ seem to benefit from.

I'm not voting Snowman based on jumping onto bandwagons, but that is a factor, I'm voting Snowman because the underlined section worries me. This isn't Donner Party, there's no civ team per se. This terminology could be poor language selection by a new player or it could be a slip. Either way, he's got my vote because I just don't feel comfortable placing it anywhere else.

There was discussion at the time about his reason for voting Snowman here, and I still think that this reason was highly questionable. Was the eventual Snowman lynch a good result? Yes. Was this initial reason for voting Snowman from zeek a good one? I don't see how anyone can make the argument that it was.

But... then I go back to a previous post from zeek (he made it less than an hour before he made the post where he voted for Snowman):

zeek wrote:I have skimmed and gleamed what I can in the available time I have at the moment. I feel bad voting right now because I'm not where I should be with the thread but I don't want to abstain because I don't believe that helps anyone.

llama - He does get called out early and sometimes lynched because of it. I believe he's being helpful and I won't be voting that way today.
Epi - Personally didn't see him as bad, but the Shingami Eye Deal cricked my brow. I considered it a possibility myself, which is why I'm hesitant about voting for him. Still, seems like normal Epi to me.
FZ - Not sure how I feel about her, I find myself agreeing and disagreeing in equal measure.
bea - not feeling the case against her, seems like normal bea to me.
TH - Not been super-talkative or helpful, and he usually is. I love the list though and I may make one at the start of the new week. Don't like him voting so early and then saying he doesn't think llama is bad anymore. Seems like an easy way to avoid responsibility for his vote.
Snowman - Following Donner Party, he doesn't seem that big of a talker to me but you have to be when people challenge you on things. I'd like to hear more from him.
boo - Seemed the voice of reason along with Epi on D0 - full disclosure is I would have voted for the safe standard lynches as well - however the back and forth with llama has made me question this.
Zomberella - One thing I noticed is she used the term "lunched" instead of lynched. Carry over from Donner obviously. She has since said she likes the idea of "lynching" Snowman. Not enough to garner a vote, however nobody corrected her in-thread I believe. Pure speculation but BTSC teammate could have corrected her. Just want it noted.

Did I miss any of the apparent candidates?

All in all, I don't feel comfortable voting for anybody right now.

Linki linki linki

The Snowman post he quoted and used to justify voting Snowman was made hours before zeek came in and made the second quote I pulled from him. At the time, his thoughts on Snowman pretty much started and stopped at wanting to see more from Snowman. Then, without seeing anything new from Snowman to use to justify voting for him, he went back to something he had already seen (and hadn't previously found suspicious enough to mention) and used it to justify voting for Snowman.

So that's a vote that all around, I find very questionable and an attempt (that didn't entirely work since zeek took flak for the reason he used to vote for Snowman, but not really a lot, and certainly not suspicion that has stuck with him).

Then there was the discussion about the reason he used to vote for Snowman. Imo, he became weirdly aggressively defensive at this point, calling the suspicion for the reason bullshit, arguing there's no such thing as a civ team, calling TH a troublemaker (TH was the person mostly arguing with zeek about the reason for his snowman vote), but then that discussion kind of fizzled out, and zeek (while continuing to discuss it) became less aggressive about it, and just made it all seem like a misunderstanding in how people use the terminology.

Then there was a string of posts about confusion of people voting so early (something that has continued during the game). I'm with him on that one.

During D3, he started out with saying he was considering an Epi vote. That got expanded to also include Snowman, then also Zomba, TH, and MM.

This post:

zeek wrote:Forgot to reply to this due to EPIc posts.

bea wrote:

zeek wrote:My problem with Epi right now is that MM's case was good. It showed how inconsistent he has been and his responses have done little to convince me he's good. His tone, deflated and dejected, has however. So I'm back and forth on him.

Then we have Snowman. His responses don't seem genuine to me and he doesn't actually seem frustrated by all this, half-heartedly NO U'ing his detractors.

Still a fair amount of time before the lynch ends but, honestly, these guys may be aligned with Kira but I really doubt either is one.

If not them, who?

I don't know, I feel the Kira would be playing a very simple game not really drawing attention to themselves, so they could be hiding in half the players in the game. Based on aggressive and odd behaviour, I'd tentatively cross off a handful of players from the Kira list.

Is one I just want to point out. I agree with zeek that Kira playing a simple, non-aggressive game seems like a strong possibility. So I'm curious if A) If zeek would agree he can be included as someone playing a game that is similar to what he and I both agree (at the time he made this post) is the type of game the Kira could be playing. And B) If he still thinks it's likely that's the kind of game Kira are playing.

But then there's this:

zeek wrote:See above. Safe play =/= flying under radar.

It was after how he had said he thought Zomba was a baddie because she had been playing it safe.

But when I look at this response: "I don't know, I feel the Kira would be playing a very simple game not really drawing attention to themselves, so they could be hiding in half the players in the game. Based on aggressive and odd behaviour, I'd tentatively cross off a handful of players from the Kira list." And compare it to playing safe and flying under the radar as not being the same, I'm not really sure I understand where zeek is drawing that line to distinguish between a player playing a safe game and a player flying low. If the players not playing a safe game are the aggressive players, doesn't that mean the safe players are the players who aren't being aggressive, which means (comparatively) they are the players flying low?

Now, all that, doesn't necessarily really make me all that suspicious of zeek, I think it's just me not agreeing with how he defines safe play vs. flying under the radar. But I do find how he phrased things that he thinks to be inconsistent, and giving him the benefit of the doubt there over that kind of inconsistency isn't how I do things. So, it results in some suspicion created. I'd at least like to see him discuss what he thinks, what he meant, etc. The kind of thing that I don't think was adequately questioned at the time.

Then he did some puzzle solving.

Post-puzzle stuff, there hasn't been very much from him. He does enough posting to make it seem like he's part of the discussion and lay the ground work for his vote, then he votes without much to it. He likes to wait and see who the top contenders in a lynch are, and go from there. I can appreciate that, it's what I like to do. I think the difference is, there isn't much substance to what he says, he just kind of puts out there what he does and doesn't agree with, and votes accordingly. It doesn't allow for much accountability for his votes. To me, this type of game goes back to exactly the kind of game zeek said he thinks the Kira are likely to play, a safe game. Don't do much to get suspicion, but be around enough to avoid being seen as not participating. So, I guess I can see what he means when he says there's a difference between safe play and low flying (I still think of what he's doing as low flying, but if he sees himself as more active than people less active then him, I can get it, it's just a matter of perspective), but he is still playing a safe game from any perspective I think.

So... I'm suspicious of zeek now. I agree with him on some things, I can see where he's coming from on other things, but I think the things we agree on (the style of game the baddies in this game are likely using) make him suspicious. And that he has recognized and discussed the signs to look for to find a baddie, but exhibited those signs, makes me think he recognized the best way to approach the game as baddie, and then potentially made use of that method.

Right now, if I was actually doing all this to get ready to vote, he wouldn't have earned my vote over FZ. But since there's lots of time between now and the next vote (and lots of time to discuss things with him), there's lots of room for that to change.

I am going over the voting record (as you do), and there are 4 people I want to bring up as a result. Those 4 are: Bass, Boomslang, Juliets, and zeek. I'm pointing these people out because I think their voting records are interesting. I'm including who they voted for, who got lynched with how many votes, who else (if there was anyone else) was a contender for being lynched, and how many votes they took. I'm not trying to contextualize it beyond that.

I'll pull the record for each to save you time (the overall voter number is changed to remove non-player votes):

Day 1 - Trice (detective) is lynched with 8 votes, was not a close lynch with the next highest voters taking 3 at the most.:
Bass voted for Trice (1st trice voter, first voter overall).
Boomslang voted for Trice (6th trice voter, 16th voter overall).
Juliets voted for Trice (4th trice voter, 12th voter overall).
Roxy (who zeek replaced) missed the vote.

Day 2 - BWT (yotsuba) is lynched with 8 votes, it was very close with Snowman at 7 and llama at 6.:
Bass voted for BWT (6th BWT voter, 22nd voter overall).
Boomslang voted for BWT (1st BWT voter, 12th voter overall).
Juliets voted for BWT (5th BWT voter, 21st voter overall).
zeek voted for Snowman (5th Snowman voter, 10th voter overall).

Day 3 - Snowman (sympathizer) is lynched with 18 votes, obviously no one else anywhere near close.:
Bass voted for Snowman (13th Snowman voter, 16th voter overall).
Boomslang voted for Snowman (4th Snowman voter, 6th voter overall).
Juliets voted for Snowman (7th Snowman voter, 9th voter overall).
zeek voted for Snowman (5th Snowman voter, 7th voter overall).

Day 4 - No one lynched, TH survived with 10 votes, made had 6 votes.:
Bass voted for Made (2nd made voter, 12th voter overall).
Boomslang voted for TH (9th TH voter, 20th voter overall).
Juliets voted for Made (4th made voter, 14th voter overall).
zeek voted for TH (4th TH voter, 8th voter overall).

Day 5 - Eloh (sympathizer) lynched with 17 votes, obviously no one else was close.:
Bass missed the vote (-).
Boomslang voted for Eloh (5th Eloh voter, 5th voter overall).
Juliets voted for Eloh (7th Eloh voter, 7th voter overall).
zeek voted for Eloh (8th Eloh voter, 8th voter overall).

Day 6 - Made (yotsbua) lynched with 8 votes, FZ took 4, bea took 3, so not really a close one.:
Bass voted for Made (4th Made voter, 10th voter overall).
Boomslang voted for Made (5th Made voter, 11th voter overall).
Juliets voted for FZ (4th FZ voter, 14th voter overall).
zeek voted for Made (3rd Made voter, 8th voter overall).

Day 7 - No one lynched, MM took the most with 9 votes, once again FZ at 4 and bea at 3, so also not really a close one.:
Bass voted for MM (8th MM voter, 15th voter overall).
Boomslang voted for bea (3rd bea voter, 7th voter overall).
Juliets voted for MM (4th MM voter, 10th voter overall).
zeek voted for MM (3rd MM voter, 9th voter overall).

So... what's my point? I think these 4 people have an interesting voting record, I think they're all in a fairly similar spot:
Bass has 49 posts.
Boomslang has 47 posts.
Juliets has 142 posts.
zeek has 87 posts.

Some variation in the number of posts (obviously juliets is well ahead of the others in that area), but I think it's fair to say all four of them have been fairly low radar players in this game.

So what's my point (version 2.0)?:
I was looking for other potential people for Mikami (and Kira/sympathizers in general) before I voted for FZ, or for anyone else to bring up someone I think was a good potential suspect for the role. That did not happen (I mean... and MM lynch? Who has MM played the most like this game? TH. What happened when an attempt was made to lynch TH? Nothing. What should have been the reasonable assumption a lynch attempt on MM would probably result in? Nothing.), so I went with FZ (I still might, but I'd like to see, and help make, an actual attempt to find other potential Mikami's in case people do not want to lynch FZ again tomorrow, or we do lynch FZ but she doesn't wind up actually being Mikami. Or to find people I think could be other Kira or sympathizers if FZ is lynched and is Mikami). These are the four people I'd like to see included in that discussion, since I think there's a good chance Mikami and sympathizers/Kira in general, are playing a low flying/blendy game.

Final point: I'm not saying I think all four of them (or even more than 1 or 2 of them if I'm right in the kind of people we should be looking at) are baddies, I haven't done a close read of any of them recently (I haven't done a full read of juliets or zeek, and I built cases on both boom and bass earlier in the game, but haven't paid either a lot of attention since then), which is the next step for trying to figure out any of them are actually bad, I'm just saying that's something I would like to try and do before casting my next vote, and I think if other people agree with me that their voting records are interesting, it's something you should make an effort to do. The detectives (in terms of lynches) have done a fairly good job, with only 1 actual detective being lynched so far. Outside of the Yotsuba, who knows if they can be trusted, so who (outside of non-lynched Yotsuba) can say whether those were a good use of lynches for the detectives. And then two Sympathizers have been lynched (how often do you see a game where at Night 7, more confirmed baddies have been lynched than confirmed civvies?). But the lynches where no one died worry me, because those were lynches where that result seemed (to me) to be quite predictable, and if we keep up doing lynches in that way, it only serves to help the Kira, since they'll just be able to continue working at their win condition by NKing, while the detectives pretty much cease working at theirs by wasting lynches.

Have to vote now, and a better Mikami candidate hasn't been brought up, so I'm going with FZ.

I think he's bad. I think he's a Shingami (probably Ryuk, because I think he and bea have BTSC).

This is my original llama suspicion post.

Nothing since that has changed in why I thought he was bad, a few things have added to it (for example, he hasn't been NKed, and if llama is to be believed, he is often lynched early, if he doesn't get lynched he gets NKed as a civ, and most of his wins are when he is bad. If he hasn't been lynched and hasn't been a serious contender, why hasn't he been NKed? Because he's part of the group doing the killing, and is therefore bad, and following the claim he has made about winning more as a baddie, I guess that means he's on track to win the game). But, it's like with bea. Yes, there was a point in my initial suspicion I actually wanted to see him lynched (lasted longer with llama than with bea), but once I placed llama in the shingami spot, I haven't been as interested. Would it be nice to confirm it? Yes, of course. Do I think that's a good use of a lynch? No.

I'm looking primarily for 2 roles. Mikami and Higuchi. I'm suspicious of a bunch of people, but unless I can place a person in one of those two, I'm less inclined to want to lynch them.

Now, for Higuchi, I've thought for a while that it's Epi. At the very least, I see almost no scenario where he isn't Yotsuba. TH also fits as Higuchi. I'd be pretty ok with voting for either of them, but unless Higuchi has the note, that's also a wasted lynch, so I'm less inclined to look there just yet.

Which means for me, I'm the most focused on Mikami. That was my problem last lynch, you and made both fit that for me, and it wasn't Made. It could be you, and I haven't ruled out voting for you today as a result, but I'm also looking to see if there's anyone I can find, or someone else anyone can make a good argument for. But that's what makes voting hard this game. I'm not looking to lynch a specific player, I'm looking to lynch a specific role, and there are only a few other roles that are still a really great lynch and not just an ok result. It's harder in this game, because usually you can just suspect someone and try and lynch them because you think they're a baddie. That doesn't have the same kind of pay off in this game. It's something I myself missed for a long time, and it's something I think a lot of other people are still missing when they're deciding who to vote for.

Outside of those 2, finding the other sympathizers is the next priority for me (I still think non-Higuchi Yotsuba are an acceptable lynch, but they've never been the priority). But there's still to many possibilities in my mind to narrow that down. I wasn't really sure about DP, but based on recent events, I'm leaning towards thinking he's a fit for a role in there, but he just joins the list with a bunch of other people I don't remotely trust, but am not confident enough to actually vote for.

bea wrote:

FZ. wrote:My observations are definitely influenced by how I'm being viewed this game.
First of all, I just want to say that my cussing and emotional overreaction only began after I responded to every accusation that was thrown at me time after time, only to find it twisted and turned so it fit the initial perception. So whoever wants to just accuse me of going with the emotional "manipulation" or even civvie response has no idea what they are talking about.

So when looking at the back and forth between Boo and Bea, I can see it in two ways:
1. Bea is being falsely accused (either by a civ or a baddie). Yeah, I could see the case, but since things I say are wrongly used against me, so can hers.
2. Her voting for herself is an awesome bluff meant to make people think they shouldn't vote. But if that's the case, why keep encouraging them to do so?
I feel I'm more inclined to go with the former. Heck, I've thought of doing this a few times, just to prove the point. But I have my reasons not to.



I have been thinking about llama lately, especially after his crusade for lynching me. Here are my reasons and I'd like to hear others' thoughts:
1. The entire game, he's been displaying a one track mind. He's not looking into anything else. He's made up his mind about me, great. Does he comment on anything else? No! He's just sitting there telling people to vote for me. Say you get me lynched, what then? I'd expect civvie llama to want to further the discussion. Especially since he keeps saying that the puzzles are hindering the talk. I don't see him talking at all.
2. Did you all notice that Zombarella was not trusting him much? And she was one of the few who didn't. Did we ever stop to think that maybe that's the reason she's dead?
3. Since everyone is so trusting of llama, and he's so "amazingly on spot" this game, wouldn't you expect him to be dead at this point? He always says he's not NK because he's easily lynched. Well, he isn't this game and no one even considers him.

but see fz - that's the point - it isn't even what I've said. from boo -I"m not even allowed the opportunity to have a case built against me based on how I've acted in the thread because I will emotionally manipulate that to serve my baddie intentions as he sees it.

llama and others might suspect you and want to lynch you -but at least - at least they can say this is why -this is what you said.

They may be right - they may be wrong -but at least they can point to *something* - don't you see how different boo's case on me is? Doesn't anyone?

This complaint would make more sense if I were even trying to talk people into voting for you. I think you're Light. I have said that. I think Mikami and Higuchi should be killed before an attempt is spent trying to lynch Light, to box Light into having the death note and not being able to get rid of so that we can actually lynch them. I've said that.

You're the one going on a paranoid defensive - to the point you voted for yourself as if people are lining up to lynch you and it isn't just me, a bit of Epi (who let's face it, isn't a detective, so what he says can hardly be trusted), and a few people who have basically voiced their opinion on the matter as being 'that isn't necessarily wrong'.

And yet, for some reason, you can't see why you acting like that earns suspicion, and generates discussion? You aren't fighting back, you aren't going on the offensive, you aren't even proving me wrong by trying to defend. You're picking up your ball and going home, or at least, you're trying to. And then you think that suspicion feeding into suspicion is unreasonable, and you see that as me looking to pick apart everything you do in some crazy and unfair way? I'm doing what I'm doing because I think you're bad, and your reaction, as if I'm somehow being mean and unfair and persecuting you for no reason, is what is actually unreasonable.

But hey, go ahead and keep acting like I'm doing nothing but relentlessly and pointlessly attacking you, because that for sure doesn't prove my point.

bea wrote:I advise EVERYONE who has ANY bit of doubt about where I stand this game to follow my vote.

linki - I'm glad boo. I want to be lynched now.

I want it soooo badly.

th - did you vote early? if not -please vote me.

I NEED my role to be revealed right now.

more linkie. I have nothing to hide. I'm a detective. I've always claimed to be a detective. When you lynch me my role will be revealed.

I'm curious as to how you act when you do indeed get me lynched and get my role revealed.

I'm actually excited for it.

And here you can see The 'Genuine' Defense in its natural habitat.

bea wrote:you are incorrect.

Here let me help you show you how incorrect you are. Maybe if you aren't bad you'll wake up and see the rest of the game.

In case anyone was wondering why I don't think offering points to be countered would have been an effective strategy, you can consider this Exhibit A.

It isn't about any one thing you can say, it's about the option you chose to deal with what I had to say. I usually set people up to counter point what I say, I don't think you'd do that, that isn't an option I want to try and set up for you. I set you up to deal with it in a different way. The way you have chosen is to act like it's all make believe (even though in this post, you're now admitting it makes sense. But somehow, it's also been a lunatic theory in other posts you've made). We've touched on it being able to be said about anyone. This was tailored to you, building a case is what can be done with anyone. This was about you. Your response (and everything since) did not make me believe I am wrong, and, for the most part, has reinforced my not trusting you.

You weren't a vanilla civ, in the sense that in almost every scenario of how that game could play out, you'd never finish the game as a vanilla civ, but with a role that required you to be the last person standing. I think most people, in that role, would play the game setting up their options in the (very likely) event that they became a rogue indy. Which is why acting like you just spent the whole game thinking of yourself as a vanilla civ is a poor example.

You killed (at least) LC and SVS. I've been pretty up front about that one, haven't I?

You know the magic words. You've been advada-kedavraing people all up in this game. I want to put a stop to it. Obviously me trying to lynch you disturbs you. Is that supposed to make me believe you aren't Light? Is my going after people you say you trust supposed to make me feel better about you?

I've tried imagining you're truthful. More importantly, I've tried giving you the opportunity to make me actually believe it. You have not. You have done the opposite. I shouldn't have to imagine how it would feel if the tables were turned. If you don't trust me, and you think I am bad, you shouldn't be giving me the botd, you should be trying to get me lynched. You aren't making that effort, because you don't actually believe I am a kira, and you don't actually want me lynched, because it makes you look bad, and you know it. I am making an effort to get you lynched, because I do believe you're a kira, and I will pursue it, because that's what an actual detective who actually wants to catch actual Kira's actually does.

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:You accuse me of manipulation and yet you're living in a magical land where no one ever leaves anything up to implication. And your suspicion is literally entirely based on my suspicion of you, and you mis

If you didn't want to agree with the whole thing (a couple of sentences), you shouldn't have agree with it. The implication is that you agree with all of it.

Claiming you just weren't clear, and then apologizing for it, is one way to try and downplay, I guess. Not a convincing one, but I guess you're committed to going for it. But oh wait, you're also trying to use your supposed lack of clarity to make it seem like you have more reasons to find me suspicious. After apologizing for the lack of clarity. So either you're bad, and were manipulating things, or you're good, and weren't clear. But you're trying to use the lack of clarity to further your claims for reasons to not trust me. Again, more ill-masked manipulation.

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:Ahh the no u train arrived on time as expected.

Anyways, the point I was referring to was this:

but it also seems like he's on the outskirts looking in, afraid to get his hands dirty.

If that is indeed a usual thing I apologize. I've played so few games lately I forget lots of who does what. But sure, if you think you understand me that much, which I guess you don't, you can vote how you please. Assuming you're being genuine at least. :o

It isn't a no u. It's what an actual suspicion looks like. You should try posting more some time, made you'd discover it for yourself! You should also try posting more, because then your attempts at manipulation would show up sooner, and people could actually form thoughts on your alignment instead of having to keep you around until no one is really sure who should be lynched next.