The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote:Bitch Russ voted me. Uh-huh.

Haha sorry Epi. Nothing personal, but you were onto me with the whole "kill all the replacements" thing.

Incidentally, I don't think replacements are usually more likely to be bad. In this particular game, about half of us were though.

Devin the Omniscient wrote: I will probably die early from now on

Me too.

MovingPictures07 wrote: Speaking of level announcements, I was shocked people didn't find out something was going on when INH said he was picking 2, then Jigsaw picked 2, and then Jigsaw claimed he found Fetus! I agree with you, Russ, I thought that would be an automatic baddie caught as well, but maybe not?

And speaking of Jigsaw, I know he enjoyed it, but was pretty busy, a complete newbie, and his computer died before the game started so he had to play from his phone! I found it absolutely hilarious, given that, that his track record of voting baddies in this game was by far the best of any civvie... because he kept going after Devin! Unfortunately, I think after Devin got other players to vote for him, it scared him off, haha.[/b][/color]

Wow! I came after that, so I didn't notice it. It's a really good thing civs didn't all start voting INH. Though I guess he wouldn't have died. And kudos to Jigsaw for his strong play! My first game I voted 3 civs, role blocked 3 others, and then died.

Oh, and one more thing! Do we get a banner? And how does one put a banner in their signature? I still need to get my Minimalism one too, but I haven't been able to figure out how.

MovingPictures07 wrote:
Even though the baddies had played such an amazing game, the reason it lasted so long was that it still could have ended with a civvie victory!! If the civvies had found Dr. Fetus in Cotton Alley, the baddies would have automatically lost the game, something the baddies I know suspected but I never told them!

There were two things that didn't happen in this game which I was expecting to see, all of that said. First was Brownie's races and its "choice" to go with either civvies or baddies and this didn't occur because the baddies killed off Nevinera! The way that role worked was: At its first race, whoever Dr. Fetus told it to race (in this case it was MR, but since Nev was dead, it was a moot point) determined Brownie's alignment. If MR had won and let Brownie die, well, Brownie would be dead and it wouldn't matter. If MR had won and saved Brownie, Brownie would have "chosen" (automatically) to win only with the civvies. If Nevinera had won and chosen to save MR, same outcome. If Nevinera had won and chosen to let MR die, however, only then would Nevinera had "chosen" (automatically) to win only with the baddies. The second item that did not occur was the baddie team not being able to kill due to one of them being dead. If, for example, Devin HAD died early on, when they reached Chapter 5, the baddies would have had no way to kill any civvies! Since none of them even came close to losing their lives (except maybe Mongoose 2.0, and only because her predecessor lost so many votes due to missing polls... only one more would have killed her regardless), the baddies didn't have to worry about it.

Well, I am here to answer absolutely any questions! Again, thank every single one of you and I hope you had fun!

Thanks, MP! This was a really fun game, and even though it took a few days to get into it after subbing in it was well worth it.

We baddies were TERRIFIED about you guys finding Dr. Fetus in level 7; we were nearly certain we would have lost if you did. We actually ended up doing research to find the least-picked numbers at that point.

I suspected that was how Brownie worked, but we never got to see because he died so early. That was a shame. There was speculation in BTSC about who he was right up until the end.

MP, how did the Cotton Alley night sequences go? I was left constantly wondering why people did or didn't die during those.

Llama's power was so strong! We were really lucky he didn't get to use it.

How did MR and Lizzy get BTSC? Neither of them were characters who could get it from Warp Zones, were they?

Epignosis wrote:So much thought goes into your games MP. Appropriate thought- Bioshock had a serious tone and elements that did the video game true justice. Avant 2 and Meatboy had unsurpassed wackiness that always had you looking over your shoulder (when the threat was always in front of you).

Ever amazing shit. Looking forward to your next one already.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I liked the zaniness and the always-looking-over-your-shoulder-even-when-you-should-be-feeling-safe-iness of this game.

Hedgeowl wrote: Ooo Russti I am so going to think you are always bad now. I started to really think you were laying it on thick with the Hedge is a civ shtick, but again you played it so smoothly. Plus like I said in the game it really was hard to think you were bad then.

Thanks Hedge! I'll take that as a compliment. Part of me felt bad for you that everyone was ganging up on you when you weren't bad at all, so I thought you could use some defending. It helped that I got civvie cred for it, of course.

I'd like to think I posted stuff I would've posted as a civvie though, and I don't think I'd have bought the case against you anyway, although I may not have opposed it so stridently if I had no info.

One thing I always wondered was, why didn't you guys post your level choices in thread? I know it happened a little at the beginning, but it had mostly fizzled by the time I subbed in. If I had been civ, I would have spent the whole game arguing for that. Then if you picked a level someone you suspected had said they also picked and it turned out to be the right one, you'd have proof they were bad, right? At the beginning I thought we might be destroyed by that alone.

Anyway, I had a really good time playing this one, even though I was pressed for time occasionally. Thanks to everyone, especially my teammates, for making it so much fun, and to MP for putting together such a unique and cool game!

I'm voting Mata. She doesn't know what's going on in the game because she replaced in, yet she puts forth very specific (and very wrong) lists of all the "baddies".

Linki: but also . Unless Elo is bad, in which case

Epignosis wrote:Now I see why I couldn't access this thread at work. Thank you INH.

And I used to watch the shit out of some My Little Pony back in the 80s.

Does that make you a hipster Brony, since you did it before it was cool?

Ok, so Lizzy was right. RIP Matt.

There really aren't many of us left any more, even if one of the baddies has gone down.

I'm not sure whether to go with Mata again, or follow LIzzy's lead for INH, or to vote Mongoose. Leaning one of the first two, because Mata mentioned voting 'Goose herself. I can't see a way that Lizzy is bad at this point, and I think she's probably making good reads, if Matt was any indication. So I guess my internal debate is this: Do I think she's making better reads than I am right now?

insertnamehere wrote:I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, do not get My Little Pony. I watched an episode, then sat alone and reflected on how I just wasted 20 minutes that I could of spent volunteering for charity, exercising, talking to my family, benefiting mankind, and instead watched a kid's show about cartoon ponies. Why the fuck is it so popular? The animation is some garish, hellish drug trip into Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. The plot is nothing special, except for I think that the white princess horse or whatever is a psychotic dictator. She turned on her own fucking sister. And for that matter, where are all the humans? Did Princess Hitler-Horsey kill them? How the fuck does the annoying brat pony have fucking magic? Why the fuck is there a dinosaur, who is apparently Purple Brat's slave? Were the dinosaurs put into concentration camps? The most unpleasant part were the characters. The southern stereotype on had me wanting to turn her into glue within 5 seconds of meeting her. All of this aside, I could see how it could be a decent show for children. Hell, if I had a kid I'd let her watch it. But for adults, there's nothing fucking there. This doesn't mean I have anything against anyone who like the show, I just really, really, really, (x25) don't get it.

This is by far the most INH has contributed to this game so far.

Well, I have an exam coming up in an hour or so, so it's voting time! I'm going with Mata for now, because I trust none of you anymore, but I trust her the least. Hopefully it will get easier to pick a side after today's vote.

Devin the Omniscient wrote:

A Person wrote:

Matahari wrote:Hmmm so yesterday a person had the most votes, but the lynch got switched to hedgeowl. So why would anyone not think a person was bad? Voted

The structure of this game is fundamentally incompatible with the concept of a lynch switch.

..... Why the hell don't you speak more??

Agreed. Mata, there are no lynches. We lose lives based on votes. I don't know how to explain your post, whether you're baddie or civ.

And A Person, I get the impression that you think you don't have much to contribute to the game, but I agree with Devin that you should talk more! I think you tend to sasy insightful stuff when you do.

Vompatti wrote:

A Person wrote:i'd not mind a bondage gril

me niether k

also, does anyone else get a scroll bar next to every relatively high avatar when not logged in?

I do, Vomps! I think it's just how the site is.

Elohcin wrote:I don't know, after Lizzy's last post about not voting A P, I don't feel I can trust her. The post screamed of trying to save a baddie teammate.
Then, Mongoose's tone when she said she trusts lizzy and is nervous about a matt vote. I am beginning to wonder about her again as well.

This is a good point. As I said, I still don't trust the 'Goose, and her agreeing so readily with Lizzy is weird. My gut still says Lizzy is probably good, though. I don't know what to think any more, except that everyone is probably bad.

Lizzy wrote:Yes, because everyone piling up on Matt who already has quite a fair share of votes definitely means he's bad. If either Russti or Goosey are civ, please do not vote for Matt AP k. I mean, look at INH's post. He's not even trying anymore. ;P

If AP was bad, it would make sense for people not to defend him until they were worried he'd die, though. But that also applies if he is civ...

Honestly, INH might be bad, but he's done so little this game I have no read on him. I think he does tend to be forceful in his opinions. Because of the game structure every vote against a baddie can help, and we don't need a majority for a good result. So I'd rather spend a vote on someone I was more sure about, like Mata, than him. Lizzy, what's your opinion on her?

I am glad that there are two factions developing, and I think if anyone dies today it will be extremely illuminating.

RIP Vompers. You died a hero.

I'm sorry I was wrong about you. I feel all mixed up this game, and it makes me not trust my read on A Person anymore. I still can't shake the feeling about Mata, though. And I tend to trust Lizzy more than most of you at this point, so I'm considering an INH vote as well.

Why all the early votes, guys? No one wants to talk anymore?

Hedgeowl wrote:

Russtifinko wrote:I hate this vote spread, though. I'll refuse my urge to go Mata for now because of that. *Voting A Person.* I was close to going Vomps for reasons I mentioned before, but I was fairly even on them and I don't trust A Person's super early vote on Hedge.

Matas vote for you makes no sense in my book except that you have very few votes and she wants to weaken you. She is still a good candidate for sure, but I will stick with AP again.

Once again looking like a no lynch kinda day.

votes A person

I think this analysis is probably spot-on. Sorry to see you go, Hedge.

Going forward, I think Mata and A Person are our best candidates. It also occurred to me that Mongoose hasn't been getting much talk lately, despite lots of people thinking she was Dr. Fetus earlier. Dr. Fetus should be lynchable now. I will almost certainly vote one of those 3 tomorrow.

I hate this vote spread, though. I'll refuse my urge to go Mata for now because of that. *Voting A Person.* I was close to going Vomps for reasons I mentioned before, but I was fairly even on them and I don't trust A Person's super early vote on Hedge.

Matahari wrote:

Mongoose wrote:I rubbed lotion into my eye. I blame Russti.

That's pretty convincing. I'll vote Russti.

Well this is bizarre. I'll take the first bit as a compliment, I guess?

The second bit REEEEALLY makes me want to vote Mata again. Revenge vote for yesterday? Baddie not-caring-who-they-vote-for? I don't know, but whichever way it stinks.

Not sure. I thought he was Tofu Boy until Boomslang showed up as that.

^ Ture.

That seems like a great result! Maybe we can still pull out a win after all?

Hedgeowl wrote:So apparently we actually have to lynch baddies to beat Dr. Fetus? Weird...

Ok, I will try to update my list of all the votes, but I think it is definitely in our best interest to vote either vomps or AP out. If the consensus if Vomps I am willing to vote that way today too.

I am actually still most suspicious of Mata at this point. However, neither Vomps nor A Person seems especially civ to me either right now. I do think we need to lynch a baddie today, and I don't know if there's enough consensus about Mata to lynch her. She also hasn't lost many lives yet. For that reason, I would also be ok with a vote for Vomps or A Person. I'd slightly prefer Vomps, because I've played with him more and thus I feel more confident about my read on him.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

I might forget to do this in the morning, so I'm doing it between my food coma and real sleep. I don't know what to think anymore with the way this vote has gone. People I thought were civ and on the same page voting each other and whatnot. I'm gonna vote A Person, because he's voting Hedge and I trust her, and he's been very apathetic and hasn't offered insights or analysis or suspicions. I really hope I'm right about you Hedge, because I think that if you're bad at this point I'll likely go down with you.

See you all tomorrow!

Wow, early votes! And even one from Vompers. Maybe I'm missing something you guys see, but if Hedge is bad then she has completely bamboozled me this game. I'm just having trouble picturing a scenario where she's bad. I'll be very sorry if I'm wrong, but I've played with her enough to at least try trusting my gut when it's protesting so strongly.

Now I'm not sure whether to vote Mata again, or to vote for one of Hedge's voters. I did say earlier that Lizzy seemed more good to me than she usually does. Maybe that's not saying much. But if I were to vote for a Hedge voter, I'd be inclined to vote Vomps or A Person. Neither has as yet offered any suspicions whatsoever, and it's Day 9! I think it's pretty clear that the baddies are laying low at this point, and not offering suspicions makes you uncatchable if someone you've been framing flips civ.

Perhaps A Person, Vomps, and Mata could be so kind as to tell me why I shouldn't vote them?

Matahari wrote:My apologies Russti. In my read back earlier today, I overlapped a post about elo and hedge, and I thought it was hedge that you were questioning. So now I see that you have defended hedge all game.

Fair enough, then. I did think Elo looked REALLY bad early on, but she's much lower on my suspect list now. So the confusion is understandable if you mixed them up.

Oops! I read it, except the important part. RIP then, Jiggy. I wish you had been more active, we could've used you.

MP, do we get to find out Jigsaw's role despite him being modkilled? He did receive some lynch votes today, so maybe you could count it as a sort-of lynch?

linki: You guys are some craaaaaaaazy mofos.

Matahari wrote:I still don't have a clue. I thought when russtifinko and llama both mistrusted hedge earlier in game, and then they changed their minds about her, that maybe she was good. But she has the most votes so far. So maybe I am wrong. Which is not surprising. I'll probably follow the majority-think, because I got nothin.

I actually never mistrusted Hedge, I said early and often that the case against her was baloney. I feel even more strongly about it after this lynch and I think her defense has been sincere. I'll be shocked if this is bad Hedge, and I'll be eyeing her voters strongly for tomorrow. I don't regret my Mata vote at all

I have to vote now, since I'm going to work out and have class after. Nothing has changed over the past day period to make me reconsider my suspicions. Mata has taken one vote so far, yesterday from llama, who notably got NKed immediately after. I don't trust her listmaking, and I think maybe that vote scared her and her teammates into offing llama2.0. A reaction like that makes me think she must be bad, but not Dr. Fetus.

*votes Matahari*

Lizzy wrote:If Vomps isn't Dr Fetus, I''ll be a very sad Lizzy.

Wait, are you saying you think Vomps is evil???

thellama73 wrote:

Devin the Omniscient wrote: But anyways, What's everyone's thoughts on the quieter players?? I feel like the players in the middle of everything are the only ones being targeted for lynches anymore, and look where that's gotten us.

I trust you, Devin, perhaps mistakenly, but I do so there. I found Mata's sudden list compiling after taking her first vote a big red flag. Feels very diversionary, and I don't agree with her choices.

I have said since the beginning (which got me killed) that I am uncomfortable leaving a bunch of players with zero votes because if we pick wrong (which we have so far) we end up with undamaged baddies who will be very hard to lynch. It's also worth noting that there have been quite a few night kill misses. Whether this has to do with blocking or missed PMs, I don't know, but it seems likely to me that some of the quieter folks are bad.

Mongoose, I've been thinking along similar lines about why llama died. This quote is the only thing he posted since he came back (besides saying that he has now reconsidered his view on Hedge) that stuck out to me.

I've been thinking Devin looked bad for a while now, mainly because he and llama fell on the other side of the Hedge debate a few days ago, but now that llama's been proven civ twice it gives me pause about Devin as well, and I think I've been looking in all the wrong places.

I don't really trust Mata's listmaking either, given the timing of it (as llama pointed out). I've heard that the game on RM is insanely involved, but it seems weird to be so quiet, throw that out, and then a few posts later say that she didn't have any major suspicions.

I think it makes sense that either DP or Mongoose must be Dr. Fetus. Both of them missed polls at the right time to have been MIA while Bandage Girl wasn't hidden. I am a little hesitant to vote either of them because it might not do any good, but I'm also starting to think that at least it wouldn't hurt.

I also would really like to hear more from A Person, INH, and Jigsaw. Those are 3 very low posters, especially lately. Vomps fits that category as well, even for him. I've been giving them the benefit of the doubt so far, but with the scarcity of leads and people starting to die while it looks like the baddies are laying low, I think we need to examine them more closely.

And I'm still having trouble shaking the idea that Elo's idea before was a baddie ploy, so I mistrust her as well. Especially after llama just died (for a second time) after advocating spreading the vote around in the post above. He even says that's what got him killed the first time around. Maybe that's what he was onto that scared the baddies into killing him. I am starting to come around to agreeing with him that a wider vote spread might be a good thing, to give us a chance at the end.

I do feel like there are some people who I can say fairly confidently are civ at this point, so that's good. (Not naming names.) I just hope we can coordinate well enough that it's not too late.

^ I don't understand anything about this post. RIP llama, MR, and BWT. We're really dropping like flies now. Hopefully the fact that we're at level 6 still gives us a shot.

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:I don't know my thoughts really.

Epi, replacements replace anyone. Not just baddies. At basically a rate normal with initially getting the role. Not sure why your experience led you to believe otherwise.

As a replacement, I obviously have strong personal feelings against Epi's 3rd point. I also agree with the objections DP and Elo raised about it from a theoretical perspective.

Wow, go Boomslang! I'm actually a little surprised you didn't act even more suspicious to get lynched. Well played.

Mongoose wrote:Also, burnt tofu is awful. I directed James on making tofu jerky in the toaster oven. I instructed him to put it in there for 6 hours at 200F. He thought it would work out the same if he put it in at 400F for 3 hours (because he didn't have "all day").

It was charred to a crisp and wholly inedible and I still bring it up during arguments.

This story just made my entire day.

I have class now. I think Vomps is acting weird, even for him. Still very leery of Epi, and many others for that matter. And hey where has DP been lately? Speaking of flying under the radar, I just realized I haven't heard from him in ages.

Hahahaha even I picked up on that one. :P

Oh dang, you're right. How does he get off so many of these? I don't know if I believe the whole Warp Zone thing, personally. I don't have any info or evidence for that position, it just feels off to me.

Llama publicly tried to go to a Warp Zone and failed, and we now know he was civ, so I don't see why he would've lied to us about that. And yet others (MR and I think some more whom I'm forgetting) are disappearing, ostensibly into them.

Well, llama was right. He dies and the game loses a lot in terms of discussion and wackiness. I'm considering Vomps or Epi for a vote, for now. Neither has been of much help, in my opinion, and we don't have any good leads on baddies yet, so I think it's reasonable to guess that they're lying low. Also, Epi is making me a bit nervous, and last time he did that was last game, and he was evil and murdered us all.

Hmmm. Ok. I still think it seems a weak case, personally. (Probably because I wasn't around when it happened.) Any idea why people other than Jigsaw stopped looking at you after Nev died? I would think that would lend credibility to the case, unless people think you were being framed.

Linki: Boomslang and Dev, if I knew Jigsaw better, I'd be inclined to agree with you. I don't know his playstyle well though, and the makes me hesitant for now.

I'm really glad Elo is trying to find baddies now, and it makes me feel a good deal better about her. But that creates a problem too, because now I'm not sure who to vote for. Any suggestions?

Elohcin wrote:

A Person wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I don't have much to add to what has already been said. However, I want to bring up...

1. Dr Fetus was inactive (for whatever reason) for two nights.
2. Mongoose replaced an inactive player.
3. Dr Fetus hid again and as not found.

This doesn't automatically mean Mongoose is Dr. Fetus, but it could. Any thoughts?

Either she is hoping that people would think that she'd purposely wait and not suspect her or someone else knows that she would be suspected if they hid right after she joined.

Hmm, yes, I hadn't thought of the second possibility.

I like your thinking here, Elo. To be honest it seems like too much work to investigate whether other players were inactive around the same time. We do have a number of low posters, including Jigsaw, Vomps, and myself, as well as a few people with high post counts who seem a little under the radar to me (eg BWT, Epi). The frame job idea also seems plausible, though maybe a bit far-fetched because it assumes an extremely clever Dr. Fetus.

For me right now, it's something to file away. If 'Goose is innocent then voting her will be bad, and if she's Dr. Fetus then it won't do any good. I'll keep a close eye on her though.

Mata, as I said before, I don't think Hedgeowl is bad. If anyone has any evidence at all against Hedge I'll be glad to see it, and it might change my mind, but so far the case is this:

1) People (including but not limited to llama) said Hedge was bad, without giving reasons (but with giving an awesome nickname, for which we all owe llama).
2) Hedge either did or did not react.
3) Step 2) was taken as evidence that Hedge is bad.
4) Repeat step 1), but now with "evidence" from step 3).

All of this not to say that Hedge is good, just that I'm leery of anyone looking at Hedge for now.

Devin the Omniscient wrote:There is so much I could say right now... But I won't say it... Instead, I will say llama.
Thank you for staying you until the end. You will be missed

This. I enjoyed your posts, even though I didn't agree with most of them. Sorry I was wrong about you.

insertnamehere wrote:There seems to be a weird trend of people saying that they are going to vote for a certain person, and giving no justification, and then other people bandwagon onto that.

Can I get an "AMEN!"? What is this? So many people to discuss, here. In the order in which I read their posts:

'Goose: ok, you were right about llama, and you're reading civ on Dev and Elo. But why did you vote Boomslang? You never mentioned a reason.

A Person: you had NO SUSPICIONS at all? After 5 DAYS?!? And then followed VOMPS' VOTE? Speaking of which...

Vomps: Really???? I guess that's par for the course. But I expected more from...

Epi, I didn't notice a reason or your vote either. I remember you being a champion on accountability. Was your vote a revenge vote for Vomps' vote with no reason, or just yet another vote with no reason?

As I said before, I'm all for info, but I don't know what we're supposed to get from lynches when people vote like this. I just hope llama's death won't be in vain.

Do we have a smiley for getting off a high horse? I'll be stuck up here without one. Hope no one takes my rant too seriously. I don't want to be all self-righteous, and I love some weirdness. I just want brief reasons for why you're acting weird. Maybe that would defeat the point....

Thanks, llama. That does actually clear up the Boomslang thing for me a bit. I see both sides now, but I don't know where to stand on it. Boomslang has been lynched (both rightly and wrongly) for things like this before, as have you for your zany play.

And Epi: hah! I didn't really expect you to. And you raise yet another good point about llama. I do think it seems likely that Fetus is somewhat inactive.

Elo, I like your gung-ho-ness and think it'd be fun to ride stick-ponies with you , but I disagree entirely with your strategy. I think it's reckless and dangerous. Of course we need info, but I think we should at least try to get baddies while doing it and not just pick on the weak ones. I know we're often not successful with our first lynch, but if we're not even trying or making arguments then we don't get much info from a lynch anyway, and that plays right into the baddies' hands.

I'm worried you just want people dead and not the info that comes with their deaths, so I'm voting Elo.

LOTS of linki: that's what I get for Skyping while writing posts. To address the most relevant for my post: I don't necessarily trust Rob, nor do I know why llama would right now. So I'm voting Elo for today.

And A Person, MR just mentioned that you missed the Day 4 poll. Anything to say about that, or about your suspicions for today?

Linki: Hedge, I think you make a strong point. Drawing votes on purpose is the only way I can explain llama's zaniness to myself, and even if he's invincible, the only way it benefits him is if the votes he gets don't go to teammates. I also don't understand llama or 'Goose in this case. I'm still leaning Elo, because I feel most strongly about her (btw, that would explain why she didn't mind voting llama earlier-it wouldn't hurt him but might throw people off the scent). However, I'll definitely keep your thought in mind.

Actually, Elohcin is scaring me a bit, now. She's been a stalwart proponent of bandwagoning in this game (which isn''t what pings me). She's been consistent about that, but not about WHOM to bandwagon.

Elohcin wrote:

thellama73 wrote:

Elohcin wrote: And if I had said nothing it would have been, "Elohcin hasn't said anything to defend herself."

Only a baddie would make such a response. I'm on to you, Tasha.

Eh, I'm not worried. You don't scare me Honestly, I don't think you're really pinged by me at all. And, I definitely get civvie vibes from you. I admit that you pinged me a bit at first with your "odd behavior" but there was one post that you made that turned things around for me. You're okay in my book.

First she's dead certain llama is civ (as a strangely large number of players seem to be this game, imo).

Elohcin wrote:

thellama73 wrote:I'm voting for INH because I think Rob is good at reading his wife. Plus, she is always a little bandwagony if I remember correctly.

Bandwagony? Bandwagony!? Eh, I guess you're right. But not today folks! I still suspect that you and A Person are up to no good.

*votes llama*

The next day period, she's sure enough that llama is bad to vote for him.

Elohcin wrote:

Lizzy wrote:

Elo wrote:*votes llama* Love ya buddy, but others are right in saying that a 16-way tie would not be beneficial. Now you are tied with Dev

More or less bandwangon-y.

Elo wrote:I admit that you pinged me a bit at first with your "odd behavior" but there was one post that you made that turned things around for me. You're okay in my book.

Which one q.m.

Elo wrote:I went ahead and voted Hedge.

Why? Besides your tendency to bandwagon.

Elo wrote:I think this is a good idea. Low posters, not llama.

Why? Bandwagony again.

Elo wrote:Any other ideas folks?

You. Or maybe you could suggest someone for a change.

Yes, I was trying to bandwagon. I believe we need to bandwagon in this game, try to get a baddie asap so we can move forward with some more understanding of who else is bad.

The next day period, she's unable to give a reason for wanting to vote Hedge besides to bandwagon. As I mentioned above, bandwagoning itself isn't a problem for me. I disagree with it as a general strategy when civ, but I can understand how in this game someone could think it's a good idea. What I have a problem with is bandwagoning when you admit you have NO REASON other than the bandwagon itself to suspect someone. It reeks of just wanting people to die. I guess Elo would say she wants people to die so she can have info, but you would think if she were civ she'd prefer it be a baddie that goes. I don't see any sign of that thinking here.

Incidentally, this is one of the posts that makes me feel good about Lizzy this game. She's asking probing questions and following answers to their conclusions to make her decisions.

Elohcin wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote:What leads you guys to think 14+ lives is strange?

Granted, there are plenty of other reasons to suspect Llama (and believe me, I'm now considering them all), but I'm not following that one. :/

As much as I suspect llama, I have to agree that 14 lives isn't enough to suspect him. This makes me think that Boomslang has less than 14 lives. Maybe we ought to go after him next as he will take less time to lynch.

Boomslang wrote:
Yeah, 14 votes and surviving starts to look a bit fishy.

And finally, here Elo just flat-out admits she wants Boomslang to die regardless of his alignment, just because he may have fewer lives than llama or her. I also don't understand what she's saying about llama here. Does she suspect him or doesn't she?

tl;dr:
In summary, Elo is all for just randomly lynching people this game, regardless of alignment, until....something happens? I don't really see her endgame here. It makes me think she's bad, and even if she's not bad I think she's a danger to the rest of the civs this game, because she's willing to play fast and loose with our lives by following any bandwagon she can find and killing the weak ones. I will almost certainly vote for her today, and I hope that she gives some sort of response to my post. I also hope others will consider voting her.

So I, once again, am failing to grasp a llama case. Llama, what is it about Boomslang that initially made you think he was bad?

I don't understand your cavalier attitude about votes unless you are in fact Dr. Fetus or Bandage Girl. In either case, trying to lynch you is pointless, though.

I'm starting to feel bad about Devin this game. He's basically been getting the opposite of the reads I have, if his quick boarding of the Boomslang Bandwagon is any indication.

I also don't feel all warm and fuzzy about MR. He was one who hopped on the Hedge Train a few days ago (as was Lizzy, but my gut so far is saying that she seems sincere, and I haven't played with MR enough to get that kind of read).

I'm not sure either of those is the way to go, though. Disagreeing with me isn't a crime. I'll have to mull (and hopefully read some enlightening conversation!)

And did Lizzy vote herself?

Well I have to vote now, there's a tornado coming. I don't trust llama or MR. Llama's casual defiance of Boomslang's vote makes me worried he may be the Doc, but MR's off the poll, so it's llama for me today.

Lizzy, why do you suspect MR? I was thinking about him (and you, for that matter) for your Hedgeowl votes the other day. I haven't played with him before though, so I don't have a confident read on him yet. I may have missed it in my reread, but what about him caught your eye?

Also, I personally doubt that Tofu Boy benefits from being suicidal, whether that means he actually has to vote for himself or not. MP had a similar role in his Bioshock game. I believe it was a piano player who had an increasing chance of killing himself every night. It was kind of a doomed role, and the player certainly didn't benefit from being dead, but I don't think it's far-fetched at all to say MP put a role in this game that is designed to eventually kill itself with no benefit to civs or baddies.

Well, the thing that has stood out to me most has been the push against Hedgeowl with, from what I've seen, absolutely no evidence at all. I'm convinced there's something sinister going on there, though I'm not sure if it stems from llama for starting it or from the bandwagon-hoppers who followed his lead.

So I'm caught up. Is this why everyone suspects Hedge?

thellama73 wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:Fun fact: we all have different amount of life, so we have no idea when someone might die or not.

(This may have been discussed already) However, I like llama's day 1 suggestion even less and am considering voting there because it seems like a huge baddie benefit. What if they have more lives than the rest of us?!?

Bring it. You have shown your true colors, Hedgeowl. Or should I say HedgeBaddie?

I've been looking for if there was anything else, and I'm just not seeing any evidence, concrete or otherwise.

Also, Nev is right here:

Nevinera wrote:We have a core problem here:

1) We don't gain any concrete information until somebody dies.
2) Normally people die when we lynch them, in this game people just take damage.
3) Scattering our vote around like last time will result in lots of people being hurt (and easier for baddies to kill) and us gaining no real information until the endgame.

Sadly, I don't see any actual solutions to that problem - bandwagoning is mostly 'hope we get lucky'.. Does anyone else see some way to not lose this game? Maybe we'll be able to uncover more information as the game unfolds via mechanics like on night 0?

I think Nev is right. Everyone hates Day 1s in mafia because they involve killing someone we're not really sure about at all. I think people want to spread the vote in this game to feel like they're not killing anyone, but they are, only very slowly. I think placing a high number of votes on someone is the best way to get information, unsavory as it is. I don't see how we can coordinate to all only vote for a few people, though, so we're in a pretty tough spot.

Llama's plan to distribute votes evenly didn't mean civs would be likely to win, just that the person with the most lives would. This makes me think llama has many lives. Unfortunately, that doesn't help me with his role since we don't know who has how many lives. (It also would have been an unsustainable plan, once those with few lives figured it out.)

Absolutely. And if you don't see the evil of 8, I think it's because you've been turned to the 8th side.