The Syndicate

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Having been on a mafia team with Elohcin twice (The Syndicate Mafia, Transistor), I get the impression that she would prefer to avoid throwing her teammates under the bus (and to be thrown under herself). In each of my own examples our team ended up bussing her begrudgingly, because we felt circumstance demanded it and it was agreed within the group.

If Elohcin 2.0 bussed Wilgy in this game, I think that would suggest that Wilgy himself requested or recommended it. To merely vote for Wilgy at the last second in a [at that point] runaway wagon isn't really even a "bus", because it looks just as bad as any counterwagon vote would. Baddies are generally aware of that. That's why I view her "Wilgy is my #1 suspect" moment is the moment of interest. It is well within the realm of possibility that Wilgy made such a request, as he has proven to be the type to enjoy gambits, distancing, WIFOM, and all those other strategic goodies that drive some of the braver baddies out there. Perhaps once I removed myself from the equation (and Quin was removed from the poll), Wilgy realized he was the odds-on lynch and made moves to prepare.

It's all quite speculative. Before I make a final decision on this one I'd like to hear what Elohcin has to say. Her extension has begun.

Sorsha wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I think that y'all need to give me at least day to prove myself, I would hope.

I don't necessarily oppose that notion, but if you were to receive that kind of "extension" it'd be vital that you use it to your fullest advantage. The only read of yours that I have an idea of is Quin; it'd be good to know how you feel about everyone else.

No pressure, right?

Well, after reading through the thread today, I have two suspicions.
#1 is Wilgy. Quiet...quiet...quiet....And then he is here with fire. Makes me wonder if he is bad, was laying low, and then suddenly felt the need to come in and defend himself because his teammates said so.
#2 is Epi. I know I kind of said this, but I replaced in and he was on me before I could post. Really? I understand there is a possibility that someone comes back bad, but don't you think you ought to give them a chance to at least speak first? If he is civ, I would think he would want to at least hear from me. If he is bad, jumping on me before I can even say anything is an amazing opportunity for him because he KNOWS I am no good at defending myself even if I am civ.

I would be willing to vote either Epi, Wilgy, or Quin today.

So if Epi is bad you believe he started the lynch on day one to get rid of his own teammate- DDL?

As much faith as I put into spouse reads of one another the suspicion Epi voiced of you yesterday was strange to me. It wasn't based on anything you've done but on a probability. Or something.... I don't know if I'm conveying what I mean accurately or not. But I think you get what I mean.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:I think that y'all need to give me at least day to prove myself, I would hope.

I don't necessarily oppose that notion, but if you were to receive that kind of "extension" it'd be vital that you use it to your fullest advantage. The only read of yours that I have an idea of is Quin; it'd be good to know how you feel about everyone else.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:

Long Con wrote:Hi Eloh!

What do you think of JJJ's case on me?

Since you were gung-ho on lynching Quin... I think it makes him more likely to be Civ, that you were allowed back. I feel like, if Quin were bad, and the baddies killed you to ease tyhe pressure on him, it would be in poor taste to bring you back immediately. A Person certainly wasn't after Quin.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. It was the host that decided to bring me back, not the baddies. And l still think quin has a good chance of being bad based on the same things I said before. I considered your three options as elo 1.0 and feel the exact same as elo 2.0. why does me coming back make him look more civ... Please explain better.

And jjjs case on to? Honey, I always think you seem bad so I just put it out of my mind and try to ignore you until I am further into the game, just being totally honest.

Linking...I understand epi, but I don't think it affects the game at all that I am back in this time.

I'm a bit underwhelmed that Elohcin 2.0 replaced back into the game, immediately found herself beset by accusations she can't defend against (related to a host decision), and left us with only this post in response. Typically when a civilian deals with that kind of thing it incites some kind of emotion, frustration, sarcasm, or something.

Long Con wrote:Hi Eloh!

What do you think of JJJ's case on me?

Since you were gung-ho on lynching Quin... I think it makes him more likely to be Civ, that you were allowed back. I feel like, if Quin were bad, and the baddies killed you to ease tyhe pressure on him, it would be in poor taste to bring you back immediately. A Person certainly wasn't after Quin.

Long Con wrote:I'll start by saying that you, Elohcin, have shot up the list of suspicious folks for your heavily-slanted treatment of Quin. I will try to be very clear about what I mean so there's no confusion: you are crafting your words in order to make Quin look bad.

Quin comes in and questions why people aren't addressing every possibility, and you agree with him that JJJ could be Civ, but use it as a platform to throw shade at Quin some more:

Elohcin wrote:

Quin wrote:Getting back right into it - why didn't you consider the possibility of Jay being the unlynchable role? A very strong point was made that there was vote manipulation going on.

I think we should listen to Quin here. Although I don't know why he keeps damning himself further. There are vote manips and it could be that JJJ is unlynchable for the first 5 days and a :huh:Quin is still a baddie.

Then, when you see that Quin is looking deeper to find out what really happened, you try to use that to make him look worse:

Elohcin wrote:

Quin wrote:Boomslang was singled out as being the survivor of the night kill, and both Jay and I were singled out in the lynch post. I think there was a tie. How are ties determined, Mongoose?

then he backpeddals and says this? What's up Quin?

Your use of loaded words indicates to me that you are more interested in getting everyone else to believe Quin is bad, and less interested in analyzing to find the truth.

"damning himself further" - you imply that Quin has already damned himself. As if he's already given away that he's bad, and what he said just puts him deeper in that hole. The truth is that what he said doesn't have any bearing at all on his alignment at face value. If JJJ got more votes and if he's the Denim Shirt, there is still no reason at all to assume that Quin is bad because of it.

" Quin is still a baddie" - Your use of the Smiley also feels manipulative to me. Why is it there? So we can all empathetically share in your bewilderment at how bad Quin is, and how he's digging his own grave with his obvious baddie posts?

"backpedals" - Ugh. Elohcin, I want you to write a post that explains how Quin was backpedalling. What I read was Quin bringing up one possibility, and then continuing to look into it, and seeing clues that indicate another possibility.

And pardon me for being obtuse, but the way I see it, the easiest and safest thing for a baddie Quin to do would be to shrug and nod as though the lynch result doesn't surprise him, leading most Civs to believe that he's the Denim Shirt. Instead, he takes the lead in showing us the other strong ideas about what happened.

Elohcin has risen to the top of my baddie list.

Quin wrote:Boomslang was singled out as being the survivor of the night kill, and both Jay and I were singled out in the lynch post. I think there was a tie. How are ties determined, Mongoose?

Quin wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Very interesting. Could it be thta Quin is the unlynchable role? He seemed very unconcerned in the run up to the lynch.

No. I'd just gotten all my legacy reads out of the way and had nothing else to talk about.

Getting back right into it - why didn't you consider the possibility of Jay being the unlynchable role? A very strong point was made that there was vote manipulation going on.

thellama73 wrote:MP has always said that a self vote is the only vote guaranteed not to catch a baddie, and has condemned those who engage in the practice in the harshest terms. I'm very troubled by the MP we're seeing here.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Quin wrote:If Eloh role blocked me, but Boomslang's survival was the result of a doctor protection, it would probably mean Elohcin calling me out wasn't an attempt at a frame job. That would make her civilian. Any reason I shouldn't think this?

If all of these assumptions are granted, sure. I'm not certain we have the data necessary to just call Elohcin a roleblocker (for either faction). She emerged into this day phase with two primary comments of relevance:

1. Appreciative of my reviewing of the progression of votes on Day 1, which included a lengthy description of Quin emerging looking less than stellar.

2. She is suspicious of Quin.

My inclination is to tie these together -- she agreed with the concerns I expressed about Quin's vote and expressed suspicion accordingly. Elohcin, please correct me if this is not accurate.

Quin wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Yay! No kill. I guess the kill was blocked.

I know I haven;t been here much, but I have been following along today and I think JJJ's summary of the votes on Day 1 was nicely detailed enough to catch me up. I have an idea of someone I think could be bad. Quin. His vote, his sneaky tone, and the fact that his defenses haven't sounded genuine to me.

So it was you, huh?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Yay! No kill. I guess the kill was blocked.

I know I haven;t been here much, but I have been following along today and I think JJJ's summary of the votes on Day 1 was nicely detailed enough to catch me up. I have an idea of someone I think could be bad. Quin. His vote, his sneaky tone, and the fact that his defenses haven't sounded genuine to me.

Eloh, could you please point to a defense made by Quin that didn't like?

Quin wrote:

Elohcin wrote:Yay! No kill. I guess the kill was blocked.

I know I haven;t been here much, but I have been following along today and I think JJJ's summary of the votes on Day 1 was nicely detailed enough to catch me up. I have an idea of someone I think could be bad. Quin. His vote, his sneaky tone, and the fact that his defenses haven't sounded genuine to me.

So it was you, huh?

Elohcin wrote:Yay! No kill. I guess the kill was blocked.

I know I haven;t been here much, but I have been following along today and I think JJJ's summary of the votes on Day 1 was nicely detailed enough to catch me up. I have an idea of someone I think could be bad. Quin. His vote, his sneaky tone, and the fact that his defenses haven't sounded genuine to me.

thellama73 wrote:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

thellama73 wrote:Vote Sorsha. Locked In. Final Answer.

Are votes changeable?

No, which I rather wish I had remembered before casting mine.