The Syndicate

DrWilgy wrote:I like croutons.

Here's the thing everyone. Gman isn't the cop.

I believe you.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Elohcin wrote:Dude, why would I for real cop claim after fussing at all of y'all for cop claiming. I could have used sarcastic orange, but that would have ruined the effect, I think.
You were pretending to find the cop claims annoying to support your own fake cop claim -- it makes more sense for the claims to bother you if you're the real cop.

No, they are annoying.

Dude, why would I for real cop claim after fussing at all of y'all for cop claiming. I could have used sarcastic orange, but that would have ruined the effect, I think.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Don't forget me, Elohcin. I need to know why I am both one of your two civilian peeks and one of your suspects.

I thought I was clear that I was joking about that :P

My summary for this game so far. - "I'm the cop." "No, I'm the cop." "I'm the cop." "Wait...I'm the cop."

3.14

JJJ:
I had dinner and we are now getting ready for family time. I'm sorry I don't have time to elaborate on JJJ and catch up in the thread. I think I have stated enough about him in my previous posts though.

3.13

Rabbit:
- Overall, quieter than normal, from my experience. Laying low, flying under the radar, etc.
- Day 0 - comes at SVS pretty hard for saying something just to say something. Maybe he is trying hard to find something on a civ to go after?
- Day 1 - calls people out for wanting the no lynch option. I don't find this suspicious, but thought it was noteworthy.
- Day 1 - Still going after SVS for saying something just to say something
- Day 2 - plays catch-up
- Day 2 - thinks JJJ is playing odd
- Day 2 - says Epi is odd
- Day 2 - says a post from G is weird

I am going to go ahead and post this so far. I have to go do dinner stuff and will be back to finish later. Overall, Rabbit doesn't do a lot of explaining or elaborating like he usually does. I think he is just being quiet and it could be b/c he is bad.

3.12

and lots of linki to read later

SVS:
- Day 0, she thinks Hilary Swank is hot. C'mon! Baddie

haha, j/k
- Day 0 - talks about technical game related stuff
- Day 1 - still talking about technicalities with the game
- Many of her posts are off topic
- She finally says something noteworthy near the end of Day 1 about how both G and sig only followed rabbit with their votes.
- Laying low perhaps
- Playing it safe
- all those good cliches
- then she is quick to take the opportunity to vote for me when I claimed to be bad. I think she new I was faking and saw it as a quick and easy opportunity.

3.11

G-Man:
I've found G-Man to be inconsistent.
- Day 1 - Starting at the beginning, he weighs the different scenarios of JJJ being a cop and having a Day 0 peek. Day 1, he's inclined to trust JJJ.
- Day 1, he is against the no lynch option and says, " As long as we lynch somebody, those votes will still be informative." This statement says nothing about wanting to try to catch a baddie.
- Day 1 about voting for a lynch he says, "Voting for Vompatti would be information purposes and nothing else. Vomp's style is one that is appealing to baddies to leave in the game to mess with civvie heads." Again, he just talks about how it will give us information and says nothing about trying to catch someone who might be bad.
- He ISOs EVERYONE on Day 1 which seems a little mike he is trying too hard to look civ.
- Day 2 - Within an hour of the day's beginning, G-Man tells JJJ to reveal his peek. Apparently he is still believing JJJ is the cop.
- Day 2 - still hyped on JJJ's red "peek" and says this, "Blunt time I guess. If I had a red peek on Day 2, I wouldn't say a damn thing about it. That way, you can let the baddie you have a red peek on go about his/her merry way for most of the day thinking they can subtly interact with their teammates after a night of discussion."
- Later Day 2 considers JJJ as a baddie who is lying about being the cop.
- End of Day 2 votes JJJ.
- Night 2 - reveals Scotty as a green peek.
- Day 3, as soon as it starts, says I am bad.

I'm not going to go into anymore...he is just all over the place. He is trusting JJJ as cop, then he is not. He is saying nothing about being a cop, then he reveals alliances for two players.

3.10

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I believe you, Elohcin. Who do you think is bad?

My top suspects are G-man, SVS, Rabbit, and you actually (in no particular order).

I will expand upon it in a minute.

3.09

S~V~S wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
S~V~S wrote:I voted for Eloh. Since she appears to be bad for sure, why backburner her?
B/c I just wanted to see how gullible you all were in a game where infodumping is allowed.

You are willing to get lynched as a civ over an opportunity to laugh at how gullible the rest of us are?

Linki, I have barely read the thread, and I am the suck at hints for the most part. I read into what people say, I don't spend a lot of time on surface questions. One of the reason I don't like playing games with hints allowed.

Yes, actually. Because I'm a little fed up with all the cop claiming and peek claiming. It's becoming very annoying and I don't think it helps find baddies whatsoever.

S~V~S wrote:I voted for Eloh. Since she appears to be bad for sure, why backburner her?

B/c I just wanted to see how gullible you all were in a game where infodumping is allowed.

okay, here we go. I am bad. everyone can vote for me now and you will get no info on who my teammates are. GO! You think infodumping is fun. There you go.

the rules of the game have no opinion

I am cranky about infodumping, whether the info is true or false. It doesn't make mafia fun and interesting. It makes it stupid.

I'm fed up with all this cop claiming. Honestly, its ridiculous. I am the true cop, y'all. And I have two green peeks. Night 1 - Daisy - civ. Night 2 - JJJ - civ.

Really, all this cop claiming is going to confuse everyone. A cop is not supposed to just reveal what he/she finds. The cop is supposed to use the info he or she receives and build a case on that person if they find their peek is bad.

I will not reveal anymore peeks. But if I get a baddie peek, I will do my best to build a convincing case on that player as the game intended.

Now, stop cop claiming so we can have some fun and find some baddies.

3.01

I picked 3 cause no one else picked it and cause whatever.
N2.03

Polo wrote:I'm sorry for the absence, folks. Very well, help me get back on track and gimme your top 3 suspects!

Are you trying to get out of doing any work on your own this game?

As for the poll, which option is for the awesomeist experience? 1 or 10?

N2.02

well, that was sad and anticlimactic

RIP INH!!

N2.01

.........And my head is not in a place right now to make any on topic posts. Too much RL crap to think about atm.

2.14

well, I have to make a couple posts so I am not damned..........

2.13

Spacedaisy wrote:
G-Man wrote:Boy, this day just gets stranger and stranger. Eight votes spread over seven people, including a Sadness style self-vote? This doesn't give me much hope.

2.25
I'm not sad. I'm just aware my attention is going somewhere else at the moment so I can't adequately choose a better option for right now.

Love you SD, but I can never see a reason to vote oneself. You have at least a slim chance at catching a baddie by voting someone other than yourself if you are civ.

2.12

DrWilgy wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Take your chance JJJ.

I voted Eloh.
Why?

2.10
Because I doubt that you are genuinely reading the thread for scum hunting.
Uh... Okay? I'm doing a hell of a lot more than other players around here. I think you just want to pick me out b/c of my interactions with you during the night last night. **rolls eyes**

2.11
You aren't wrong. Eloh, what happens if JJJ flips cop? What happens if he flips civ?

If he flips civ, I will be surprised b/c of how he's played. His tone has not been civ-like imo. If he were civ, I think he would have been a little more forgiving with G-man when he brought up all the stuff about the red peek. I think he would have been less argumentative with Epi when they had all the cop stuff to talk about. I think his tone overall has been sneaky and untrustworthy.

If he flips cop, I will think that he played that role oddly.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Elohcin, you discarded my defenses quickly. Okay.

In your own words, please state why you believe I am bad.

I think I just did

G-Man wrote:Best alternative for me right now is also Elohcin. Scotty slid down to #3 on the re-read and I'm very conflicted about my S~V~S suspicion. Having just seen her as a baddie, I know she is committed to a team. Her absence weighs heavily on my mind.

2.JackBauer

Why?

2.11

DrWilgy wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Take your chance JJJ.

I voted Eloh.
Why?

2.10
Because I doubt that you are genuinely reading the thread for scum hunting.

Uh... Okay? I'm doing a hell of a lot more than other players around here. I think you just want to pick me out b/c of my interactions with you during the night last night. **rolls eyes**

2.11

DrWilgy wrote:Take your chance JJJ.

I voted Eloh.

Why?

2.10

and I forgot my numbers. that was 2.08 and this is...

2.09

Sorry for the spamming rico, but you brought it among yourself

Well, as much as I think JJJ is bad, I agree with him that we have several hours left of today and we should make the most of it by talking about other things/people.

Scotty and Quin, why did y'all vote for Polo. If you mentioned it, I missed it among all the Epi/JJJ drama

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:i'll try again Epi, just in case my points were unclear.

1. Whether there is a cop in this game is irrelevant. There could be, and there are almost certainly some kinds of power roles. When a vanilla civilian provides "cop cover", he or she attracts a night kill thereby protecting the cop or any other non-vanilla civilians.

2. sig's very own posts display a consciousness of cop cover. That's plenty of evidence on its own to suggest he might have had the intent to provide cover himself. Moreover, his staunch refutations of my peeks may have made it look like he had the power to make peeks instead, thus rendering my claim doubtful. That's the proposed method of cover.

3. That his understanding of a cop role differed from mine has no logical bearing on whether he meant to provide cover. You keep bringing this up and it's still irrelevant.

4. That I waited until his death to express my thought that he might be providing cover is a product of not wanting to expose him -- I thought he might actually be a cop. His cover was solid whether he intended it or not.

5. Wilgy associating us as team mates is not sufficient motive for a night kill. If my gambit is to green peek sig as a baddie, I'm smart enough to realize that some people might find that curious and associate the two of us -- especially in this culture where that is foreign. So to say I killed him because I wanted to break that theory is to say I didn't think my peek through in the first place. I'm a very calculated baddie.

6. Killing him does not earn me town credit either (nobody is rushing to hand me any as you can see). Because of our association, any kill on sig is by default going to draw scrutiny to me.

Where is my logic faulty?

I see these points, but I don't think they defend the fact that you could be bad.

2.07

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I showed Epignosis why his case doesn't work, and instead of stepping back to reconsider or even expanding his argument to compensate, he doubled down on the attacks that I've shown to be invalid. Then instead of showing me why I'm the illogical party in the exchange, he posted a bullshit meme to give himself a pass for unreasonable stubbornness.

Please remove him from the premises.
You are bad.

You may THINK you showed him how it doesn't work, but I don't think you did.

**Voting JJJ**

Scotty wrote:
Elo: you seem more involved in this game than previous ones. Epi said you were more inclined to be preoccupied during games which is why you avoid the big jobs. This game you seem...eager, I guess? Dunno if there's anything to read from that.

I AM eager. I love playing Mafia when I can actually keep up and know what the hell is going on

I am playing catch up today though. I have had a crapton of stuff to do today and this evening I am going out with the girls. So I am sitting here with a pile of laundry in front of me that I intended to sit down an fold, and instead I am talking to you and reading the thread

Polo wrote:I'm voting Dr Wilgy for now.

Why?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'm in legacy mode now. I don't give a crap whether people buy what I'm saying now because they will buy it when I'm dead.

If you flip town, I will still not understand your game-play this game. And, I'm not sure how it will impact my thoughts on Epi.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:That's true, Eloh. I'd forgotten about your comment re: G-Man and I. I'll rescind that gripe for you.

Thank you.
Okay, now for the mountain of laundry. And I say mountain b/c it literally resembles a mountain. It is the kids' job to get the clothes from the dryer so I can fold them. They always try to see how tall and narrow they can make the pile

2.06

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Also, completely ignoring it is itself a reaction and something I was looking for.
Please. You're playing the Mastermind and flailing at it at that.
I never claimed to be any kind of "mastermind". I only claimed to do what I did. And I already said it.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Everyone who has visited this thread without commenting on the matter at hand is more suspicious than before.
Elohcin and S~V~S were around but did not comment on the claimed red peek or the discussion stemming from it.

Well, I actually did comment on it when I saw it. Remember me telling G that I understand his point of view, but I saw yours as well. I said I wasn't sure which side I thought to be true and that I was on the fence about it. I didn't say anything right after you posted b/c even though I was shown as being in the thread, I wasn't on my computer. See...I stay logged in at all times and unhidden. Added to that, when I am in a game, I keep the game thread up in a tab at all times.

Okay, I still have TWO pages to read so I am posting this now and will read more.

2.05

Well, if there is anything to distract me from voting wilgy today, this is it. I have not caught up on every post and I have to leave here in a minute to go workout. But this sums up what I've caught up on so far. Epi has a good theory with this....

Epignosis wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:Let's review the supposed sequence of events:

Baddie JJJ fakes a n0 town peek on sig.

DrWilgy suggests JJJ and sig might be team mates.

JJJ [and team] kill sig.

This is such a wasteful progression for a baddie team. To open the game with that fake peek would suggest a gambit is being employed, and then to kill him on the first possible night is to discard that gambit immediately with only one person drawing an incorrect link -- that isn't good enough.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

Awesome cover, sig. It sucks to lose you on night 1, but your sacrifice is appreciated.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:JJJ... What was Sig cover for?
Me, though he probably didn't know exactly who. By conclusively rejecting me as the cop he made himself look like the cop.

Guess who has a red peek?

I'll just let y'all stew on that one for a while and reveal the name later.
The gambit looks alive and well to me.

Then to point out that it was JJJ who first brought up sig's motivation in all this AFTER sig couldn't speak up for himself. And the fact that sig could have known what was going on b/c they have played together on the other site with stuff like this all the time.

And this.......

Epignosis wrote:I don't believe there is a cop at all. My entire discussion with you was allowing the point. That is all.

I bet there is no cop at all as well, as I've said before.

I know this is piggybacking a bit, but I just think Epi made great points while I was snoozing.

I have a busy day ahead, but I will catch up sometime this afternoon, hopefully.

and I have no clue what # post I'm on, but i have to skidaddle.

Wilgy, I mist have missed it. Why did you vote JJJ?

2.03

linki: Much to consider G-man, huh. It could be either he is really helping, or have a scheme against us. I am very on the fence with JJJ.

linki linki linki.can I post now?

guess not....linki

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Elohcin wrote:JJJ and Wilgy, there is a lot of back and forth between you two as if you've decided you already trust one another. Am I correct in my analysis? If so, what makes you trusting.
His vote is on me right now.

I've asked him a lot of questions. I might have a strong read on him right now, but I need one more answer.

I didn't even look at the votes - didn't think to this early.

2.02

RIP sig.

JJJ and Wilgy, there is a lot of back and forth between you two as if you've decided you already trust one another. Am I correct in my analysis? If so, what makes you trusting.

JJJ, I can see where G-man thinks you are teasing a bit by not revealing your peek. You have info he thinks we need right away. However, I can also see why you would want to hold out a bit. I won't reveal what I think my understanding is so I don't ruin it for ya, in case I'm right.

2.01 - stealing G's numbering system because its just plain 'ol practical.

ebwop: tonight

#7

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:With Vompatti gone, who do you suspect most right now Elohcin?

I'm still confused as to why wilgy would say that he thinks SVS is civ and didn't want her lynched, but then goes and offers her name as an alternative lynch to vompatti. It just doesn't make sense. And I hate to fixate, I really do. I don't want to put myself in a position to tunnel. However, no one else has really said much today, so it's stlll in the forefront of my mind.

Well, I voted for the first option. I was hoping to get some understanding on the poll, but I guess not.

#5

Oh gosh, I meant to talk about the poll too in my last post. Now I am on a bad number.

What is up with the poll? Any ideas?

#4

DrWilgy wrote:@Eloh, SVS was the only other player with afew votes on her.

AH, got it. Thanks so much. Sorry I wasn't around for EoD.

Even still, if you thought SVS was civ, and didn't want her lynched, as you said, I am still confused you even offered her up. But I'm going to let it go for now. I don't like to fixate on one player/incident. Just know I will be watching you

Isn't Mafia fun?!

N1#3

DrWilgy wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:No, I'd have preferred to lynch you or Sig. Was I ok with Vompatti's death though? Yes! It was exhilarating.
Your post history reveals some degree of faith in S~V~S. You said this about Vompatti:

DrWilgy wrote:I'm noticing the same things that others are about Vomps. His lust to survive is apparent. Unknown if it's a real spicy burrito or not. Knowing him, it could be as fake as I am on a rainy day. I'm ok with him dying and will change my vote.
Why did you elect to generate an S~V~S counterwagon to Vompatti?
@Eloh as well. To give the option. Nothing more. I didn't think that it would've been the choice vote anyways.

I don't mean to harp on it. But if you could just be a little more specific as to why you brought up SVS in particular, that'd be great.

DrWilgy wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
DrWilgy wrote:Have you ever dangled a baby in front of a shark to see what would happen? That's what I'm doing. Anyone wanna vote SVS?

This is post 22 of day 1... I think I'm clear.
Inquiry to if anyone wants to lynch svs is different than lynching svs. Never did I say I wanted svs and that people should lynch her.
What was your intent?
Provide an option for those who didn't want to vote Vompatti. As an American I believe in freedom, and I will share that freedom. Yo.

If you don't want SVS lynched, then why name her of all players?

and in case I don't get back...#19

I have blooper company as well any minute. I will try to check back and see what's happened.
#18

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Elohcin wrote:@JJJ - If you truly are the cop, why would you come right out and tell everyone. Aren't you afraid the Mafia will choose to kill you Night 1? Do you have some kind of immunity from being killed Night 1? Or immunity for all night kills?
Why do you want me to broadcast these things?

I don't really. Shhhhh, don't tell Quin. Quin keeps harping on me b/c I won't address you. So I addressed you. You don't have to answer :P But at least he can get off my back and go do something else. Like find some baddies.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Polo is the standard issue bottom-tier content guy that's in every game. In my experience, that's not a strong indicator that someone is bad. He could be, but I have no clue. Vompatti has at least shown evidence that he cares about receiving votes (which I wouldn't anticipate from him in his town body), and he also contributed to the awful no lynch wagon.

I agree with this 100%. Like I said before. It's almost like Vomps actually cares this game. And if we are going to have a chance at getting a baddie, I agree that we need to vote together to overcome "no lynch" voters.

As for the cop issue, it has gone from "I cannot trust anyone enough to believe anyone" to "I have no idea what you guys are talking about."

@ G-man - my initial sus of sig was weak. You are correct about that. But! It was that weak sus that ultimately led me to feeling like I can trust him. You see....putting out a weak sus of someone and asking for a reaction can help you make a decision about that person. Some people just throw out names and say, "I DON"T TRUST RICO" or "RICOS BAD!!!" and then they wait for a reaction. I think that is stupid (no offense to those who do it). I think giving a suspicion, whether weak or strong, gives you a better assessment.

Day 1 #17

DrWilgy wrote:
sig wrote:post 6

I'm really confident JJJ isn't the cop, I'm slightly wary of him for hinting that he might be the cop, however I do think he is a civ even though he is trying to say he might be the cop.

I'll need to check him out some more before I decide for sure what I think about his alignment though, so expect me to say more on JJJ day 2 or 3.
You ready for this meme?

I'm the cop and INH was my green peek.

See...here we go. at least one of the cop claimers is a liar, possibly both. This is why I don't jump on the "oh, I believe you" train. Even SIG is saying he doesn't believe JJJ and he was supposedly JJJ's peek!

Day 1 #16

DrWilgy wrote: I've never lied once in my life!

Quin wrote:
I have hosted before and I'm completely aware of everything you just said. What I'm saying is that even if you disagreed or thought he was lying, it is simply interesting that you didn't acknowledge the post.

14

Okay. I'm glad you find me interesting

Quin wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
Asking another man to bare with you?

Mmm mmm mmm mmm mmm.
She's moved on.

Well, the other day we were talking about if either one of us were to pass. I told Epi I would live out my days alone with the kids. But he told me that i must find another man to take care of my needs. SO...maybe I am just getting a head start. Any takers? Who wants to be my back-up hubby?

Scotty wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Elohcin wrote:Thank you for answering, it seemed genuine. I will move my vote to Vompatti for now. I am not usually one to move my vote around like this. But your response was pleasantly surprising.

Day 1 #8
Do you think JJJ is telling the truth about dog? What's your feeling on JJJ?
Is there anything particularly surprising about sig's response?
I don't know what I missed about "dog", but I have no clue what you're talking about. I mean, I have literally searched for the word "dog" and only see it in your post when you say JJJ peeked dog.

As for my feelings on JJJ. I am not paying too much attention to his claims. I don't think we can put too much weight on it yet. Players claim things all the time (whether it be about themselves or others) that may or may not be true. I'm not too concerned. It could go like this:
1. he is the cop. Yay, he can help us find mafia.
2. he is not the cop, but the real cop is too scared to come forth b/c he might get nightkilled so we keep on thinking he's the cop
3. he's not the cop, but the real cop calls him out on it (but who's to say that the player who calls him out on it is the real cop. maybe the player who calls him out is just concerned that JJJ IS the real cop and is afraid the mafia will kill him, so he claims to be cop as a distraction to the mafia)
4. Maybe there is no damn cop in this game so we all go on thinking JJJ must be the cop.
There is way too much speculation that can happen on this subject, so I say

sig's response was calm and collected. this makes me think he is civ.

@ sig - I am not sure who else I am considering. I think it will partly depend on scotty's response to this post
Lol "sig" always corrects on my phone to "dog" and these days I have a 40% chance to miss the autocorrect. And sometimes I just leave it because I like dogs.

I agree that those are the scenarios for JJJ, but which of 1-4 do you believe JJJ is doing?

As for sig...I keep going back to what he said in a past game: if he appears civ, he is probably bad, so lynch him. When he is obviously bad, he's probably good.

I don't know how that translates to this game, but I'm not pushing it since I'm still playing along with the scenario that JJJ is in fact the cop.

Well, as I've said, I'm not sure where I stand. I'm not sure why he would come out and profess to being the cop for the opportunity to get killed by the mafia. I don't get it.

Here we go Quin...I'm going to address JJJ. Will this make you happy?

@JJJ - If you truly are the cop, why would you come right out and tell everyone. Aren't you afraid the Mafia will choose to kill you Night 1? Do you have some kind of immunity from being killed Night 1? Or immunity for all night kills?

Day 1 #15

Quin wrote:
JaggedJimmyJay wrote:
Spacedaisy wrote:Svs, That's not how I meant that. I meant that I wasn't asking to try to solicit his opinion of myself, I was asking because I was curious about his opinion on others. I'm not stressed about me because I know my role, lol. If someone suspects me they are more than welcome to share it so I can address any suspicions of course.
I'm trying to decide whether I find this post suspicious. I believe what Daisy said at face value -- that it wasn't her intent to solicit a read on her from me. However, the language here is collected in such a way that it feels rehearsed.

I dunno, it sounds weak as I type it. Thoughts?
SD comes across to me as a collected sort of person, so at face value I think it's sincere.

linki: fair point, but what 3j said wasn't an opinion, it was a fact, assuming he's telling the truth anyway. i just think it's interesting that you didn't address at least that post.

12

Have you ever hosted? I've not hosted much, but in the few games I have I can tell you that players lie, civ and mafia alike. And sometimes civs lie b/c they feel its best for the town. Sometimes b/c they just want a reaction. You never know. So, please bare with me as I take time to decide whether I trust someone or not. Thank you, kindly

#14 and I'm off to bed

Quin wrote:
Elohcin wrote:
Quin wrote:
- elohcin voted sig and ignored 3j's testimony that he was civ.

What, I'm not allowed to think for myself?
No, but you didn't address his post at all. That's why I found it interesting. And I know you didn't keep your vote, but it was there at one point.

11

I don't find it necessary to address everyone's opinion on the person I am voting for. Lord knows players don't address my opinions 95% of the time.

#13

Linki, Epi. Haha!!

reason #568 why I married Epi. He could always make me laugh.

And, anyway, you're a little behind, b/c I changed my vote a while ago.

Day 1 #12

Quin wrote:
- elohcin voted sig and ignored 3j's testimony that he was civ.

What, I'm not allowed to think for myself?

Search found 65 matches