The Syndicate

Sorry.

I know. I don't care if I lose, I already lost no matter what happens. But thanks Diedre.

Account fail. Oh well, it doesn't matter at this point.

In the meantime, I voted Miyuki.

Grutfud Orangesprite wrote:

Fane Winebattle wrote:If the hostesses decree that we have violated the rules in any way, I will of course defer to their judgment, but I don't see anything lame or unfair about the the strategy Eurolyn proposed. On the contrary, I think it was an inventive way around certain defeat. I'm sorry you are taking this so hard. We may well still lose, but this was or only hope, and if we do lose I will be happy knowing we did everything we could.

So I guess you will just ignore my last post where I answered you and said if we all walked into a new game and announced our roles, that would be ok too? there's no rule in mafia that roles are secret?

Your example is ridiculous because it is nothing like what has happened here. I did not out me, you did. You have been clearly dumping info in the thread because at this point you all know who each other are. I did not out myself, I simply acknowledged. This is not Day 1 where no one knows each other. It was not a sour grapes move, contrary to what you think. It was a strategic decision made to have some fun and go down with a fight. I am sorry I have so upset you. I have sent a PM to the hostesses explaining myself and if they deem what I did as wrong then I will move to correct it in the only way I see possible. Until I hear back I will continue playing but will refrain from communicating anything further with the Wickeds, though it does not matter now. I think we have communicated all that was needed to form our alliance already.

I don't think Orangesprite is the best choice since they don't seem to be the one with the block ability. I understand your reasoning though. If they did have that ability, then they would not have announced who to block in the thread. They would have simply done it.

Anyone except one of us. I do not know who has what role right now as far as the civs go, but obviously getting rid of the ability to block would be great, but I'm clue free there. I will not go after any of you, you do not go after me until the civs are sufficiently depleted and you can win. You should know, I cannot be night killed so don't waste a kill on me in case you are considering betraying our alliance. My kill will be blocked each night I am sure but perhaps you all can manage to do some damage on that front. I still have some tricks up my sleeve to help out. The only important thing is that we do not go after each other first. Numbers are key here.

Orange, there are so many variables involved here that even with our plotting you could still win, which i am sure you realize. Besides this is the only way I can plot either. Imagine my frustration at the fact that kills and lynches are rarely going through? How is a Baddie supposed to win in this kind of situation? Or the fact that civs speak freely, info dumping in thread? No less lame. I'm not bitter or sour grapes. I am just going to have some fun with this loss. Sorry if I offended you.

I most certainly was and I did not self target. But it is why I am outed, and since the civs can plot in thread, why not us? If I am going to lose, I want to at least see you all win.

Well interesting things are afoot. Since I have already been outed, Wickeds, I think now is the time we talk. I cannot win this game, we all know that now. I can only delay the inevitable. As such, I propose an alliance. One which will allow you to win, even though I cannot. If I am going to lose, I fully intend to lose big and in such a way that the end result of this game is affected. I doubt you all can win without my help, and I know I can't win either way about it. Want to play ball? I know who you all are, and I am sure the civs all know as well at this point. That is no bluff to pull you out, if one of you is willing to speak freely then let me know if you are up for some "wicked" fun.

For what it is worth, I was just targeted on Night 11 by the SKs...

I don't get it, But obviously someone knows, so I am voting the you know option.

Izzet, pulling one quote where I said that was my list probably in that order does not equal me directing conversation away from Lyel. I repeatedly said in thread that I would be most comfortable lynching either Lyel or Fane. In fact I waited to see which everyone else preferred to lynch yesterday so I would not split the vote up. This post from you felt a bit like twisting facts and omitting some important points.

As far as the night poll, I went with knight because no one else has voted it yet. It looked lonely.

Have to go to work, voted Fane.

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:Fane, I'm thinking hard about this too. Euro was suspicious of you because she saw ties to Carmen, but Carmen's team is gone. I'd like to hear why people suspect you now that Carmen is dead.

Actually, for a short time I did think there was a connection between them, but then they had a period where they seemed to be against each other so i dismissed that. what really pinged me was the day one vote for someone outside of the group he was allowed to vote for. I have felt uneasy since then, just becau the general tone of his posts then have struck me as fairly blendy. This latest thing just makes me that much more confident in lynching him. I would be equally happy with a Lyel lynch though too. I feel most comfortable with either of those two.

Anchorete, you act as though I did not answer your question of suspicions. I honestly don't know what I think of Izzet and to be honest your certainty about her guilt as a possible SK is disconcerting. It makes me feel less certain about you as bad and more wary of her. I must agree that I did not understand why she put you above the other two in my list. I won't say this removes you from list completely, but I have never said I preferred lynching you over either Fane or Lyel anyway. I would prefer to vote for one of those two and see what I can sort out regarding you and Izzet.

Regarding Shand, as I already said I have always felt civ vibes from him, but it is late in the game and it is possible he has been pulling the helpful civ routine, so I would not consider him a civ for sure by any means. But going solely on what i can gather from the thread I have yet to see anything that indicates he is bad, or anything that indicates he is certainly good either.

You aren't my public enemy number one Anchorete. You are my number three. I feel most certain about Fane and Lyel. I would much rather lynch one of those two. And I would still like to hear from you regarding why you were trying to stir up conversation on the day we lynched Carmen. Also, why is you think Izzet is a SK? And how do you feel about Miyuki now?

Agreed.

EBWOP: replace should be place.

Also, I guess what I was trying to say about Miyuki is I could see her as a possible SK, but not so likely to be on a Baddie team. That is kind of my over all doubt about her. But even that I don't know for sure.

Oh,I skipped miyuki. During the back and forth with anchorete the one thing that pinged me was her offer to be the back up if Carmen failed and replace a vote on herself. I found that weird and something about it felt off. Other than that nothing stood out as suspect in my mind, but I have a niggling doubt about her.

Izzett, Diedre, Orangesprite have all remained neutral in my mind. By that I just mean, I have not felt particularly one way or another about them. I do think Diedre looking out for us as far as the day Queran had a posting curse was good, but someone on another team may have done the same thing, so I can't really say it makes me feel confident they are civ.

Shand. I honestly have felt civ from him all game, but now that we are in end game it is worrying me that I don't have a solid reason for feeling that way aside that he has been helpful. Even baddies can be helpful.

I think that covers everyone.

Right now I would be most willing to place a vote on Fane, Lyel or Anchorete. Probably in that order. But I really do want to hear back about some of this stuff and I also want to hear some thoughs on the people who have made no impression on me either way.

Anchorete Playfulure wrote:Euro, I brought up everybody in my post, not just you.

I think it is very possible that Fane is bad; I included him in my "Possibly Bad" section, along with you and Shand (and the super silent Lyel).

And if we lynch Fane, and he comes up bad, that will not clear anyone else from being bad as we also have a Serial Killer team with "secret" powers. And in many, many games that I have played, Serial Killer teams often have recruits. So

Do you have any opinions on anyone other than Fane?

I have lost this post twice, so I am going to try splitting it up into small segments so I am less likely to lose it.

I will first answer as to why I suspect you. First you seem to have either stolen Rumple's power or knew someone did. Either way I can't see a civ reason for you to then come into the thread and try to rouse conversation with some rather heated statements. Then I see you, one of the three trying to come after me out of the blue at the same time. It just strikes me as really off, but even if I dismiss the thing about you being one of those three, I still have the first reason to suspect you. If you can explain it to me, I would be glad to hear what was going on that day.

I already have explained my suspicion of Fane more than once, so I won't do that again.

Lyel is based entirely on the fact I do not think his rezz was A Civ one and he is again one of three people who suddenly started seeming to come after me at the same time.

More to come.

I believe the night should be over so I feel a bit safer talking right now. I think it is interesting that three people have been bringing me up all at the same time. One of which was rezzed in what I would bet was likely an attempt to rebalance for a team after a host mistake. Another of which has already had what appeared to be a slip up that may have indicated his having BTSC which I have been talking about from the start. I doubt these three talking about me now at the same time are a coincidence. It just confirms to me what I have already suspected. How am I blendy when all along I have been talking about Fane when no one else has? How is it blendy that I have gone along with the Carmen lynch because I believed her to be on Rumple's team? I think you need to take a look at those who are coming after me and ask yourself why now all of a sudden are three people coming at me at once? I will likely be voting for Fane in the next lynch poll because I believe wholeheartedly that he is bad.

No one has voted to give it away so I will toss a vote there.

I am game to continue. Mistakes happen in most games, that is just the reality.

Carmen.

I think have a second person in line in case somehow Carmen escapes lynch again is a good idea. I could get behind the plan to toss a few votes on Rhinefrew as well just to hedge our bets. What with Mainchin vouching for Laine I don't think he would be a good option for that plan though. I stilldo not trust Fane, I felt a bit like he was attempting to get on my good side when he asked for my input specifically the other night, saying he liked the things I had been saying. Given that I have expressed my distrust of Fane since Fane version 1.0's day 1 vote mistake, it makes me wary of him. However, I still feel most confident in a Carmen vote right now. That is where my vote will go during the next lynch.

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:

Anchorete Playfulure wrote:Yay

Bye Queran, you were fun, I am sorry you were also bad.

OK, I think Rhinfrew was bad. I think Dallon was possibly bad. I am hoping hoping Carmen is Rumple (if one of them was not). Any ideas?

I'm still going to vote Carmen, or at least make Carmen the second choice again. I do wonder why Dierdre and Eurolyvn felt the need to post with words. I hope that won't happen again

It was beyond my choice. I suppose you could say I was compelled to do so.

I am very much in favor of giving this no talking lynch a shot again, this time with Carmen as the object of our lynch. I am very convinced of her evil intentions and believe it will be in our best interest to rid ourselves of her. I hope we find she is Rumple, but I expect at the very least we will find she is on his team.

I think I've sprained my brain 'cause it won't unwind

If you believe in working hard all day, just step in my shoes and take my pay.

Jesus just left Chicago and he's bound for New Orleans.

With my New York brim and my gold tooth displayed, nobody give me trouble cause they know I've got it made.

I bought the flying saucer off the Presley estate.

Wow it has been an enlightening few days. I am fine with the plan to vote with no discussion during the day since it seems we have an outed Baddie on our hands.

Ok, I realized have been absent, but I am currently caught up. I, for one, do not believe Carmen is good. I did back off and voted Fane one round for two reasons. First because if she was role hinting, I wanted to wait and see if anyone jumped in and said, LIAR! Thereby making it obvious she was bad. No one did, however. Now Carmen is saying she never role hinted in the first place, which was what I believed to be the case when I first read the hints. I think when everyone backed off her because she seemed like she might be saying she was Cinderella, she just rolled with it because it bought her a break from the suspicions. I don't think she meant to role hint, but she definitely didn't deny it until now. That is quite telling if you ask me. I believe a Civ would have corrected everyone much sooner. The second reason I voted Fane was because I believed her actions with him in the Day 1 vote seemed like distancing. I thought they might be connected BTS. However, I feel less certain of this right now, given his latest posts about her. Regardless of Fane, I don't believe Carmen to be working for the side of the Goodys and as such, my vote will be going there.

Additionally, I voted character and my favorite character has always been Sleeping Beauty. I have no idea why, it just always has been.

*votes Carmen *

I owe all my fellow players and most amazing hostesses a sincere apology for my absence this last cycle and missing the vote. Real life scheduling got a bit crazy and I was unable to be around. However, I am back now.

I am sticking with Fane since I have to vote now.

votes Fane

10

^9

Queran, it was not a stern defense of Finnian. It was stating my opinion how I saw it. The biggest thing that was at that time being used against him was completely flawed logic and I have a problem with that being called evidence. I did say in his defense that if he is who I believe he is this is probably a very busy time for him. However, I know nothing of his role. I just would definitely not put him at the top of my list.

If we are looking at low posters/low contributors I definitely still do not trust Fane and would be willing to place a vote there. I think his day 1 vote could have been a slip.

Carmen Brightsun wrote:I have been crazy busy this week and I should be working right now, but I am choosing Mafia . I think the best case we have is against Finnian. All of the suspicions you have about me are just suspicions. Why did I survive the lynch? Who knows. As some of you have mentioned, there are several possibilities. There is no real evidence showing that I am bad. Now, what we have on Finnian, that is evidence. He failed to vote (meaning he would lose his night ability) then we have no night kills. I definitely believe he should be on the chopping block today.

linki with Mainchin - What if Rumple saved me from the lynch to throw everyone off, confuse you all, make you think I am mafia so you will lynch me and not one of his own.

linki with Etain - Yes. If you were Rumple and had enough votes to manipulate any way you'd like, why not do so. Who cares who you are saving one civvie and getting rid of another. You would do it just to mess with people's heads. I think I would.

Point out to me which role says it has the power to kill each night. You won't find it, I know because I looked. It has become increasingly more popular among hosts creating games to make the night kill a team power rather than a role power, and I would be willing to bet that is the case here too. The case that Finnian is bad because he did not vote and then we did not have night kills. Therefore he is a Baddie does not hold water. I do not know if he is bad or not, I still need to read his posts myself, which I will do in a bit here, but this evidence ou point to is fundamentally flawed and the fact that it has been pointed out before that this is the case and yet you are still beating that drum does not make me feel better about you.

I will, however, concede that the last two points are possible. But given all the other reasons you were already suspected,it is harder for me to dismiss this as you as being framed.

Shand Azureye wrote:Carmen was voted for by: Fane (6), Etain (9), Lyel (10), Eurolyvn (12), Miyuki (13), and Ameerah (14). My question to you guys -- have you at all changed your mind about Carmen, or are you prepared to vote for her again today?

11

At this point I would say I am prepared to vote for her again. But I will say this, the other people who were serious contenders for the last lynch should be considered this time around too, because if it does happen to be a frame up job, then most likely one of those others Is on team rumple. Those people would stand to benefit the most from framing Carmen.

@ The Djinn, I think it was probably not the wisest move to provide such a word tool in the thread. But I agree with your sentiment. I suspect it is easier for Team Rumple to steal our choices in the poll than we think, all it takes is some clever thinking on the part of Rumple as far as his word choice. I remain convinced this is likely why Carmen did not die.

Shand Azureye wrote:Here's another thought about Rumpel. I'm not sure at this point how useful this is, but hopefully it may lead us to something at some point in the game, if not today.

One way of looking at Rumpel's ability is that the mafia (team of four) has complete anonymity in the lynch polls. They can vote for each other, thereby distancing themselves from their evil teammates, say the magic word, and voila, Rumpel moves over all their votes to whoever they wish to lynch. Rumpel and his team doesn't even have to get the townies to say the magic word, they just say it themselves. In this light, it may be useful to go over all posts from day 3 and find out if an uncommon word was said by four players. It's a long shot, but worth trying, I think.

What this also means is we have to be careful looking back at voting records. Just because someone voted a mafia doesn't necessarily mean they are not mafia themselves.

Linki with Miyuki: I've meticulously read Carmen's posts on nights 2 and 3, but I don't see the role hint. I'll try to check again. But even if it's there, it still doesn't help us much in deciding about her affiliation.

12

Oh good god, I had not considered this possibility regarding Rumple's ability. We cannot count on the vote record telling us anything if this is the case... This makes it very hard for us.

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:Okay, see if anything jumps out at anyone, if it does, do you believe it? Just coincidence? If you don't believe it, then is it just a 2 night set-up, trying to appear to be a townie role? That seems risky to me, as it invites checking.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=148&p=19909#p19909
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=148&p=20142#p20142

I can see what you mean about the first one, but I don't get what you are seeing in the second one.

Regarding Finnian, something he said made me realize who that player is, and if I am correct I will say Finnian probably really is as busy as he claims. Of course, that does not mean he is a goody two shoes, either. Just sayin'

8

If it were them using Rumple's ability to switch thelynch it would not be wasting anything, he gets it daily if I understand the role correctly. So it is possible, but I don't think it is likely given everything else regarding Carmen.

I did not notice any role hints,but I usualLy miss those things, I will look again when I am back online later.

Linki: yes considering she was made to post in Japanese, it does seem likely that the maf team is afraid of her for some reason. Yet another reason I don't think she is on team Rumple.

Linki linki: Agreed regarding why would they if Carmen is good. I think she is likely bad.

7

Ameerah Frolicstag wrote:I doubt it was framing Bac because if Bac hadn't said he lost his lynch save, then I don't think we would have even realized the lynch had been switched to him. I certainly thought it was Carmen that survived the lynch.

3

My point was that by it becoming public knowledge that the lynch victim actually was Bac, it makes Carmen look bad. If Bac was on Rumple's team and they knew he had won a lynch protect then switching the lynch from Carmen to Bac would both incriminate Carmen and make it look like Bac is not on team Rumple. If Bac had never said anything about his lynch protect being used, we would never know either of those things, so if he was on Team Rumple, of course he would tell us. It hinges on him telling us. HOWEVER, in presenting that option, I was only trying to be fair to Carmen by including the other possibilities in why she lived. I actually do believe Carmen is probably bad and Rumple saved her. I do not find any reason so far to suspect Bac, I think it was a good thing he had a lynch protect because at this point I believe him to be on team goody two shoe, based on my gut read.

6

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:

Eurolyvn Blissfulone wrote:

Shand Azureye wrote:

Rhinfrew Flowingrass wrote:Disinterested friends do not elect to vote in Night polls and ignore Day poll.

That is a good point. I wonder though, why a baddie would intentionally forfeit whatever moony period power he might have.

8

This is what I am thinking too. What benefit is it for a Baddie to intentionally skip all the lynch polls an give up their night power?

3

I agree with Shand on this also. If we are going to look at players who are missing alot of the game, we would have to include Grutfud and Lyle, and I'm not sure who else. Although, a player who did have a nightkill and lost it due to not voting, might try to appear absent for a few days, and then reappear with an excuse of having had some sort of problem to deal with. Especially since someone, Rhinfrew, I think, pointed out the idea of the no vote/no nightpower. Does this sound logical?

I'm hoping a few people will reread some of Carmen's posts made during the evenings, and discuss whether they redeem her or not.

4

I just read back over them and it does nothing to redeem her if you ask me. She claims to have no idea why she survived. This is pretty surprising, because I think the civ reasons for living would mean she knows about it. And coming in to say, don't have time to respond, just trust me for now, doesnot help her case. It looks as though Rumple switched the lynch. I suppose there is the possibility that they framed her, and even that Bac was a teammate who had won a lynch protect so they were getting him street cred. I doubt this very much though because Carmen already looked suspect for various reasons and I have never felt suspicious of Bac. In fact I feel fairly comfortable with Bac.

5

Carmen Brightsun wrote:I've popped in to catch up, but once again have no time to reply at the moment. I have another appt in 2o minutes and have to head out the door. Please don't mistake my business for baddiness I promise after tomorrow, I will be more involved. Hang in there with me y'all and trust me.

I hope this means you will be back before the lynch is over to answer some of the questions and suspicions put to you. Because asking us to trust you at this point is asking a lot.

4

Shand Azureye wrote:

Rhinfrew Flowingrass wrote:Disinterested friends do not elect to vote in Night polls and ignore Day poll.

That is a good point. I wonder though, why a baddie would intentionally forfeit whatever moony period power he might have.

8

This is what I am thinking too. What benefit is it for a Baddie to intentionally skip all the lynch polls an give up their night power?

3

Ok I caught up with where the Finnian suspicion is coming from. It is basically based upon the theory that the lack of NKs is because of someone missing the vote since the hostesses made it clear that not voting would result in you losing your power. Here is my problem with this theory. There is no single Baddie that holds the night kill ability as far as I can see. They each hold a separate ability, I would assume that the Night Kill is a team ability. Why would Finnian missing the vote = no NK? Is there more to this case that I am missing?

Regarding Carmen's survival. If Bac knows as fact thathe was the one who was actually lynched, it seems pretty likely that Rumple may have had something to do with it, in my opinion. Unless I missed Carmen's explanation of how she survived...?

2

Gobnait Gingeruite wrote:Wow, I just realized I hadn't absorbed any of Page 15 since I read it at 5am. There's some good stuff in there. Mainchin, you say you're sure your read on Laine is right?

Eurolyvn, very insightful analysis about Carmen and Fane. I'm now also surprised she never gave Fane a closer look. In my personal opinion, Finnian is still a slightly better candidate for lynching tomorrow, but if you and others want to go for Carmen instead then I'm with you.

I think I missed the case on Finnian. I will have to look back over his posts. I don't know about voting her. I was thrown by Fane voting for her, but if he is her teammate and he knew she would not be lynched it might be a good distancing tactic really. I don't know though, I can't make up my mind.

1

I voted rune earlier, apologies that I neglected to mention it in thread. I was testing it out at the behest of our hardworking admin team when Carmen been having trouble with it, so I voted early and with very little consideration.

I am going to take my mother to dinner, so I must vote now. Carmen it is.