The Syndicate

Soneji wrote:I want to thank Jay most of all, after the hosts, for sparking activity and making this game exciting. I probably would have just maintained my under the radar, catching up routine but when he entered it was like: new challenger approaching.

Silverwolf was also very spot on with her reads, loved her passion and feistiness.

Thanks, and it was a lot of fun playing with you too Soneji. You and Epignosis especially played off of each other extremely well and made that connection a very difficult one to draw.

Sloonei wrote: I laughed a little as soon as I saw Jay's first prisoner post the day of the jailbreak, and there were at least a dozen times I nearly typed Jay instead of "prisoner" in this game.

My strategy to get paroled:

Be as JJJ as I can possibly be. I'll be honest, on Day 5 I was just going for appearances. I didn't care whether my reads were accurate at all, I just wanted everyone to know exactly who I am and give me the parole with the promise that I'd give the kind of effort that is typical of me.

I'm glad it worked, but I also worried the other prisoners would be annoyed by my post-mania and try to stop me.

If we hadn't lynched the warden I would have refused to wear my winner's banner. I made that my personal win condition. :P

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:Hey MP, when you get a chance could you give my JJJ account the ability to view this thread again? Also, can anyone show me how to change my profile "rank"?

You should be able to; let me know if you can't.

Still seems to be darkness. Permissions can be such a pain.

Hey MP, when you get a chance could you give my JJJ account the ability to view this thread again? Also, can anyone show me how to change my profile "rank"?

Epignosis wrote:I told you all "CFD" is foolishness.

You're still wrong.

Well actually I'm usually not a fan. The CFD wasn't the problem in this game though, it was the townies' reads following the CFD. Now they've all seen it before, next time they'll be better prepared.

All three of the other paroled independents deserved it and I'm very glad you guys made it out.

One more confession, civvies: while I was definitely on your side in this game, there was one motive I had that you did not -- get my independent brothers/sisters from the start out of prison and into the win column. Paroling actual townies instead of us would have been a better strategic choice; we knew we had to stand out however we could.

Thanks for the game, hosts! I was a ton of fun to play in this role. The entire prison concept that you two devised is one of the coolest mechanics I've ever seen in a Mafia game, and to experience it as a "non-player" was so awesome. It was seriously a thrill to explode out of prison on Day 5 and flood this thread with prisoner chaos.

I can't believe I made 1,100 freaking posts in a game that I won before post #200, but whatever I'm me.

Yeah the civs all knew the opposing Don had to go. That wasn't the error. The error was in thinking the cops could win with the dons still in play. I suspect Sloonei and Turnip Head both expected nobody to win this game.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Sloonei wrote:

Soneji wrote:Epi and I very much hinted towards the Prisoner not mattering. The game would be heavily unbalanced if the Cops had to rely on the town to take out the Dons to win, as the Dons were immune to the actions of the cops. Neither faction of town can meet their wincon if only the Dons remained from each family, so Cops win by default if only one of them is alive against both Dons.

I was unaware of this all game long

Do not share BTSC unless specified. Win when all of The Police and The Don from The Sockfaced Famiglia are dead or arrested, but only if their alive and free family members outnumber those of The Sockfaced Famiglia.

Yeah, I think both town teams were content with "we'll call it a tie and give nobody any banners as long as the cops don't win." All of the confusion will likely stem from that.

And hey, well played cops! There's no way anyone can tell you that you didn't deserve to win this game after the roll you got on post-Fuzz lynch. That was probably the most abysmal stretch I've ever witnessed.

I'm sure it'll sting civvies, but hold your heads high. This game was an absolute mess, and you all fought tooth and nail to grind back into it and make it a game. I respect the effort you all gave and I am sorry that you cannot share in the spoils. Heaven knows I tried.

Yeah I clearly misunderstood something. I didn't think they could win with the dons still in the game and not arrested. I thought it might be headed toward a civ-civ stalemate of some kind, but I didn't think the cops would be able to accomplish their win condition.

Sorry civilians. I have a feeling many of us misinterpreted the same thing somewhere.

Welcome to freedom, 813!

I'm likely gonna kick the bucket. Soneji is obviously the cop. I think y'all will have the numbers to handle that. How you prioritize is up to you, townies.

You expect prisoners to help cops?

Soneji wrote:No shenanigans, just whats been right in front of your face this whole time.

I am completely unafraid.

Yes, the current parole tally is definitely to my liking. Both front-runners are ace choices.

Soneji seemed to imply that some manner of horrors await -- perhaps he just means his chance at a double arrest. Hopefully no other shenanigans are afoot. I hate shenanigans.

Sloonei wrote:Also are we able to deduce why Silverwolf was so sure Soneji has to be a cop? I am not inclined to believe she was the Stool Pigeon herself, so like what's up with her certainty?

Have you read his most recent posts?

Thanks for the reporting effort, 813. Living players: I've said you're safe with 920077, and the same applies to 813142.

Prisoner 607001 wrote:I went with 813142.And did Soneji really concede?

Looks that way to me, and it's understandable. He's put up a valiant fight for his team, but now that he's alone he can't win against two living dons. No matter what he does they can't be arrested at night, and eventually they'll lynch him.

Soneji wrote:Come and have a cup of tea with me 509. You would make an amusing informant.

Hopefully next time we play together we can be on the same side, and maybe I'll even have a name! It's easy to see why NF named you their champ last year.

Prisoner 958153 wrote:This thought just occurred to me:

Can someone explain how Dom survived the lynch on Day 11? I see nothing in the roles that would lead to a baddie being given lynch immunity. This tells me that it could either be a undisclosed game mechanic, or be a result of the hosts one-use powers they used way back at the beginning of the game. With this in mind, how feasible is it to suggest that Turnip may also have benefitted from this protection? With all this on the table, I still think chaindeath is more likely to be a policeman.

We still don't know how Dom survived that lynch. There had to be some kind of secret mechanic or role ability in motion, but the details elude us and probably will until endgame. We could certainly tinfoil Turnip Head as being the same story, but I don't think it would be wise. We do know after all the dons have to be alive, and it makes no sense for Soneji, chaindeath, or I to be dons.

Plus Soneji is conceding.

Beautifully played Soneji and all of the cops. If it weren't for process of elimination and role assignments, this scenario may never have arrived. There's not much a baddie team can do about that.

*swerves over curb in front of Soneji's house*

chaindeath blew up the page!

Keep in mind living non-prisoner players: your parole choice is likely to serve as my replacement from Day 13 onward.

Alright chaindeath, thanks for the answer. You're going to want to answer Prisoner 607001's questions too.

Prisoner 792787 wrote:You guys, I legitimately think I am the best choice to be paroled. You should seriously vote for me. You won't regret it, trust me.

The entire game is on the line. It's over a month in the making. This is not a decision that anyone is going to take lightly. If you have something to offer, you're going to need to show it in your posts during this night phase. I don't mean self-promotion, I mean production.

Thanks!

HOSTS:

Elohcin was modkilled, does that mean she is removed from the game (as in actually dead), or is she actually arrested?

Prisoner 958153 wrote:I'm voting for P813. He deserves it.

Dr. Evil is definitely also a good choice.

chaindeath wrote:Then Soneji has to be the chief.

He will likely say the same about you, chaindeath. You and Soneji are now in a battle royale, and the victor may decide the whole game! If there's a town spirit within you, and you want to get out of this mess alive and free -- then show us what you're made of. Give us your very best effort right here and now. We won't make a collective decision without really thinking it through, you have a great chance to influence what happens here.

If you're a cop though, then you might as well just raise the white flag because you're doomed.

Just know though, prisoners: whoever we parole, we could really use your help moving forward. I hope you can maintain a presence and lend us your vote. We're almost finished burying the warden and his cronies.

Thanks for the help you were able to lend today, prisoners. A bunch of fresh eyes is always a valuable resource, and we'll definitely take your input into consideration moving forward.

I think 920077 deserves a parole. A lot of prisoners do and I wish I could pick more than one, but there's my vote.

Prisoner 958153 wrote:You're right, that looks good for him. However, you aren't considering that small possibility of people not expressing their vote in the thread. I realise it's almost impossible to track down such people, so it's probably not worth pursuing.

So my gist of the thread so far is that the dons are Turnip and Sloonei and it is currently being debated whether Soneji is a Stool Pigeon?

Yeah, that is the bugaboo. It makes Sloonei 99% to me instead of 100%. I also just think he's been blindingly town all game long though and trusting him over the last few phases has really paid dividends. I'm not worried about the Sloonster.

Regarding Soneji, yes that has been a continuing topic of discussion. First, you should decide whether you think Soneji meant to give us the impression that he is the stool pigeon, and then you must decide whether he actually is or not. If it's not clear, ika was lynched on Day 6 and flipped as the stool pigeon, but many players have theorized that he was the undercover cop. If Soneji is the stool pigeon, then that would confirm ika was a cop and look good on Soneji's resume. However, there's an argument to be made that Silverwolf was actually the stool pigeon, which would suggest Soneji is lying now to try to escape the noose. You should have a look and share your thoughts when you have an opportunity.

linki -- hmmm, Elohcin wasn't the chief...

MovingPictures07 wrote:Upon further discussion with Daisy, we've decided to end Day 12 and modkill/lynch Elohcin for inactivity. It will then be Night 12 for 24 hours, and there will be a new parole poll.

I'll elaborate further upon this decision in the postgame discussion, whenever it happens.

Do what you feel is best for the game, hosts. We're with you all the way. It's been a ton of fun.

Prisoner 958153 wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Prisoner 958153 wrote:You seem to have just accepted the assumption people are making that you're a don when there's a lack of significant evidence to suggest that it's true.

You don't think the agleaminranks votes of Day 1 are sufficient evidence in Sloonei's favor?

I hadn't read that post, but now looking at the polls, I don't understand what SVS and DDL voting gleam have to do with Sloonei?

The traitor role is triggered by ANY votes, not just final votes. On Day 1, five players voted for agleaminranks. On Night 1, agleam switched sides. This means that agleam's original don must have voted for him on Day 1. The following players all voted for agleam at one point or another on Day 1 (some of them eventually moved their votes elsewhere):

Golden - can't be don, was arrested
S~V~S - can't be don, was arrested
DDL - can't be don, was lynched and flipped as Sockface
Epignosis - can't be don, was lynched and flipped as Warden
Sloonei - the only remaining candidate

Welp. Anyway. We're in the heated final days of a heck of a game, so let's finish strong y'all. Moving foward.

Hey chaindeath, it's clear that you've been trying to keep track of peoples' roles. That can be a productive exercise, and I admit that it's not my strong suit personally. Would you be able to tell me what kinds of methods you're using to determine what roles certain people might have, and how long you've been working on that?

Prisoner 958153 wrote:You seem to have just accepted the assumption people are making that you're a don when there's a lack of significant evidence to suggest that it's true.

You don't think the agleaminranks votes of Day 1 are sufficient evidence in Sloonei's favor?

I'll also say that when I assessed each of the three suspects for their potential part in a Nerolunar arrest, Soneji's was the most troubling to me. chaindeath's was reliant upon him just making a noob mistake, and I don't think he has played in such a way that we need to expect that of him. He's been involved enough and made interesting posts representative of a player who is capable of understanding Mafia. Elohcin's lack of attentiveness is only relevant if she's the only cop -- any of them can tell her who to kill in BTSC.

Soneji though: it's easy to see why he'd kill Nerolunar, and it doesn't require any easy button concessions.

Prisoner 126993 wrote:My "reasons" was legitimate. I can't explain which is frustrating as hell but I can tell you they are valid. Soneji is NOT the stool pigeon or town. His behavior is not indicative of that with what I know. I really am stretching things to even say this much. ika IS the seemer for the same reason. He wasn't the stool pigeon. Trust me on this one is all I ask. It's the best I can do now.

I am definitely weighing what you're saying heavily. There are also limits to what I can say pending the hosts response, but know that you're being heard.

With that said, how good do you feel about Elohcin being a better lynch than chaindeath would be?

Was Silverwolf the stool pigeon?

The following posts were those she made immediately after ika was lynched and flipped stool pigeon:
I find myself hitting the same snag that I'd hit earlier in the game. If Silverwolf had the same role that ika flipped as, then how could she possibly have posted the part I highlighted? How does that make a lick of sense? She initially expressed concern in vague terms that he might be the seemer, but stepped off of that immediately afterword and even apologized to ika for the apparent mislynch. It was until after then, when sig raised the possibility that ika was the seemer, that Silverwolf began to push that theory into the thread.

This would seem to suggest that she had reason to suspect ika was the seemer, but not reason to know ika was the seemer. And at this point, I think she was correct either way -- ika seems like the most likely seemer candidate by a wide margin now. But if it was her intuition at work, then her role was not relevant to her mindset. That would mean she was not the stool pigeon.

If anyone disagrees with my logic so far, please say so. It's imperative that we collectively get this right.
This is where it gets a little tougher to figure out. Silverwolf pressed the theory that ika was the seemer with some fervor, but it appears that fervor was motivated as much by other players' doubts of her theory as it was her confidence in it. I still get the impression she was promoting read she had on ika as opposed to trying to convey to the thread that she had information. The difference is crucial.

Silverwolf wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:I actually considered for a moment that SW might have the role ika flipped as, but her initial reaction to the lynch would seem to reject that theory.

I have "reasons" for thinking ika is the seemer.

This one though. It hurts me. Those quotation marks! Augh.

I specifically suggested that Silverwolf might be the stool pigeon to explain her stance, and this was her response. She literally used quotation marks, which looks like a role hint. It would for most people at least. I don't really know what Silverwolf meant to convey here, but I hope she can find a way to explain now without breaking prisoner rules.

~~~

Overall I think the evidence is stronger that Silverwolf was not the stool pigeon than it is that she was the stool pigeon. If I'm correct about that, then it would leave the door open for Soneji to be town.

Turnip Head wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:ika could have been the real stool pigeon and Soneji could still be town.

How do you figure? I think Soneji quite clearly hinted at himself being the stool pigeon which ika flipped as. If that's not true, then I can't fathom a town motive for Soneji to do that.

I must have missed that. Doesn't that seem unnecessarily risky though?

I'm not sure it would be. Epignosis was clearly keeping tabs on the roles in the game from his baddie hideout (Soneji suggested as much himself), that's what he meant when he kept referencing his spreadsheet before we lynched him. If Epi had pegged one of the townies already removed from the game as the real stool pigeon, then Soneji could confidently take on that identity himself. What he wouldn't have planned for is the influx of prisoners returning to the game who might challenge his claim.

There is reason to doubt those challengers too though. I will expand if I can, but I need to ask the hosts.

Prisoner 606386 wrote:Is that impossible?

From my perspective it's not impossible. How about your perspective? How likely do you feel that would be?

Prisoner 419713 wrote:Know what's funny? Even if we lynch all the cops we still have the delmea of the dons in that they need to be dead for the other to win.

You think ika was a cop and you're full of typos.

Turnip Head wrote:ika could have been the real stool pigeon and Soneji could still be town.

How do you figure? I think Soneji quite clearly hinted at himself being the stool pigeon which ika flipped as. If that's not true, then I can't fathom a town motive for Soneji to do that.

Prisoner 606386 wrote:

Prisoner 509378 wrote:

Prisoner 606386 wrote:

Prisoner 419713 wrote:

Prisoner 606386 wrote:Soneji might be a cop anyway but not because Silver was the stool pigeon.

Are you claiming to be the real one?

No, I'm claiming that if Soneji is a cop then it's not because Silver was the stool pigeon.

Do you think Soneji could genuinely be a stool pigeon?

I think it's possible, but I'm on the fence as to how likely it is.

Do you think both Soneji and Boomslang/Enrique could genuinely be stool pigeons?

Prisoner 606386 wrote:

Prisoner 419713 wrote:

Prisoner 606386 wrote:Soneji might be a cop anyway but not because Silver was the stool pigeon.

Are you claiming to be the real one?

No, I'm claiming that if Soneji is a cop then it's not because Silver was the stool pigeon.

Do you think Soneji could genuinely be a stool pigeon?

419 seems to be making some typos and leaving proper nouns in lowercase.

Okay, now we have three prisoners challenging the notion that Soneji is the stool pigeon that ika claimed to be (419, 126, and 606). There can only be two cops maximum among the prisoners, because both RadicalFuzz and Dom are dead. The problem is that 606 is going about this argument from a very different direction and I'm quite baffled.