The Syndicate

Anchorete Playfulure wrote:I think it more likely that it was a lynch stop. From playing in Roxs' other games, I know that when she has a lynch stop, no one dies. And generally when she ends a day, it ends when the PM is time stamped, and I cannot imagine that Fane would have voted, and then dawdeled around before sending his PM. I think 10 people could have voted, Shand, and only Fanes vote counted.

So, assuming that this is the case, no other ideas how you could have survived? Sure it wasn't that prize? Or maybe the words "secret" after your role?

Like I said, my prize was not a lynch-protect/switch, it was lynch-related, and in any case I used it the day before (when Fane had all votes but his own). If not for Grutfud's vote I should not have survived this lynch.

Roxy and Bea, am I allowed to talk about prizes? I would like to share a little piece of information before the night is out. It may or may not be useful, but I just wanted to get it out there, and let the town decide. It has to do with yesterday's lynch, and though I don't know how Fane survived, I think I know why nobody else died in his place (assuming it was a lynch switch).

Grutfud Orangesprite wrote:I can't be certain but when I voted the poll came down within minutes of my vote so I assume the end day message had been sent by then.

Yeah, that could be right. But other than your vote I don't see how I could have survived. We'll just have to wait for the official polls to be updated.

I wonder if the hostesses would be so kind as to update the polls thread, please. That way we will know for sure.

Grutfud, are you sure your vote didn't register before the poll closed? There is no way I could have survived the lynch if I was the only one voted for, that much I know. I won a lynch-related prize two night ago, but it was not a lynch-protect or a lynch-switch.

Izett Cruelsinger wrote:Relating to this game, I'm voting Princess all the way!

Oy. The baddies in this game are like Weebles!!


Linki, gotta catch up...

I'm voting Spiderman, my favorite superhero.

Also, coolest smiley ever -->

Deja vu all over again. And now Anchorete's and Lyel's votes for Fane make sense.

Anchorete, I wanted to go back and respond to all your posts about me, but all I found is "Shand is bad." Your plan clearly is to say it enough times that people start believing it. When the game is over, I would love to know why you and Fane chose me to shower all the attention on. But until you give me something concrete, it's going to be difficult for me to respond (not that you want me to, you've already decided to put my head on the block).

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:Just so you don't misunderstand, I only want to know who shifted the talk away from lyel, which I believe was shand and Grutfud. Not completely sure, but I think it was them.

Miyuki, I strongly believe you are a townie, and I assure you you are reading me wrong. Please do read through my posts, and let me know if you would like me to respond to anything. Anchorete started out as my top suspect for the day, followed by Fane. I think it's obvious that Lyel coming back from the dead is not a good sign, and believe that Fane, Anchorete, and Lyel are on the same team. However, we can lynch only one (or not) at a time. When Grutfud (who I also strongly believe is a townie) said Fane needed to go first, I thought it wise not to split votes.

Fane, I don't know why you decided to pick me, but don't you think, dear fellow, that you are being hasty, voting for me simply because other players didn't respond to your "what do you think of Shand" crusade? Almost everyone has now voiced their opinion about me, and I am disappointed that you still went ahead and placed a vote on me.

I am going to have to vote now since I won't be around when the poll closes. I am voting Fane too. I hope Fane's team can't pull off lynch switches ala Rumpel. I will not be surprised if all his team mates vote for me today.

Fane Winebattle wrote:It is possible that I am wrong. That is always possible. But as far as I know, the town doesn't have BTSC or any real way of knowing your alliance. I know I don't. So this seems less likely to me than the three wickeds sticking up for you while a few townies have just been shy about giving opinions in general.

So three wickeds are sticking up for me, and what does that make me then, the fourth wicked?

Grutfud Orangesprite wrote:I don't believe Shand is wicked.

And I, good sir, feel comfortable saying the same about you.

Fane, what are your thoughts on Anchorete?

Fane Winebattle wrote:

Anchorete Playfulure wrote:My best guess right now is that Shand is a wicked one with his team backing him up silently, and Eurolyn might be an SK.

There are nine of us alive at this point. Of those, two have responded to your suspicions of me. One (Anchorete) has been even more persistent than you, and the second (Eurolyvn) reads me as civvie. Other than you and me, that leaves five players. Do you know what team in the game is the most likely to have five players? That's right, the town. Maybe a re-read of the townie roles is in order? You've played brilliantly so far, but perhaps you failed to take some things into account.

Happy birthday Roxy!

It feels great being able to talk again. RIP Carmen and Laine. It took a lot of skill to wreak havoc for as long as you guys did, well played! Yay for no night kill. Of the few games that I have played before, I can't think of many where the town staged such a dramatic comeback against all odds! Three game-days ago I thought we were all but lost, but now I have hope. Worst case scenario, we still have five baddies (3 witches, 2 SKs), best case, we've only two (one from each team, since neither team has been eliminated). My thoughts are that the reality is probably somewhere in between the two extremes.

Anchorete Playfulure wrote:Shand has me a bit more curious as he started off strong, and has faded from view which piques my curiosity about him.

Far from fading from view, I assure you, mighty Sorceress, I was as into the game as I have been right from the start. Once it was clear who our lynch targets were, I didn't think it wise to allow Rumpel to steal our votes. The night of Queran's lynch discussion was the last I posted heavily in the thread. Why do you think this suspicious?

Fane Winebattle wrote:I've asked twice, but still no one has been willing to give an opinion of Shand which makes me suspect him

My good Fane, I was suspicious of you (version 1.0) during the first few days (mainly because v1.0 wasn't saying much in the thread at all, but was not missing a single lynch vote (thereby not losing nightly powers). However, since you (v2.0) have taken over, I hadn't gotten baddie vibes from you until the last couple of days. You've brought up my name a bunch of times now, and I assure you you are reading me wrong. You speak of my voting record being "scattershot." I've always voted based on the information available at the time, using my best judgment, and have explained my thought process for every vote. Is there any specific vote of mine that pings you? I do find your (and Anchorete's) persistence interesting.

My top suspect today is Anchorete, mainly because of the back-and-forth with Miyuki when it was clearly in the best interest of the town to not talk. We already had a lynch target, and looking back at the discussion in cold blood, I still see no reason for urgency. Nothing that couldn't have waited for the night. What I also found interesting was Carmen's silence the day she got lynched. I expected Rumpel to come out, try and get us talking. Difficult, almost impossible, as it might have been to make the town talk, it would at least have been better than sitting around as the votes piled on. The fact that she made almost no attempt -- and instead it was Anchorete who was trying to get a discussion going -- makes me want to believe Carmen's claim that someone stole her power.

Considering the above, I personally think Anchorete is a bigger threat to the town, but I'm up for voting Fane if everyone thinks he is the better option.

Roxy wrote:So ---- who is ready to go to a 24/24 pattern?

Please lemme know in thread if you would like to take the game to 24/24.

I would end the day today but alas we have one person who has not voted.

I was thinking we needed a second choice after Carmen to merely have a backup in case Carmen gets NKed (unlikely, but possible), in which case we can't be sure if Rumpie is still alive, and may have to start talking during the day tomorrow. I don't think we need to spread votes to someone other than Carmen. Rumpie's team seems to be able to move votes/divert lynches to players of their choice, irrespective of who the second highest vote-getter is. More votes Carmen gets, more votes Rumple has to move (not that it matters since we aren't saying boo during the day).

I also suspect that there's one more Rumpie alive (other than Carmen). Right now my money is on Laine, but I am not too sure since I haven't heard much from her.

Dierdre Wonderbird wrote:The only thing about Laine is that Maonchin vouched for him. Could he have been voicing a vibe as fact? I like your logic about his vote that time but its hard to go against a confirmed civs posts

Oh you're right! I'd forgotten all about Mainchin vouching for Laine. But considering Mainchin didn't have investigative powers, I don't know what to make of it. It would be nice to hear what Laine's own explanation is for Mainchin's vote of confidence, and for her Gobnait-vote.

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:Hopefully Carmen has no more tricks to play, but if she is able to redirect the lynch, do we need a second suspect again? Do we even have a second suspect? Obviously, Carmen is not going to vote herself, and if we should be looking at someone else to put a couple votes on, in order to save a townie, who should we be discussing?

I honestly don't have any strong suspicions about anyone else yet. Little pings maybe, but thats it.

That's a good point Miyuki, it will be good to have a second option ready. I think even little pings might be worth mentioning at this point, especially since we won't be able to talk during the day until Rumpel goes. Who do you have in mind?

I'm looking at Laine as a possible Rumple-teammate. It's a minor ping based on the fact that she voted for Gobnait the day he got lynched. The other two were Queran and Rhinfrew, one a confirmed Rumpie, and the other a suspected one.

Goodbye o verbose one. You were a worthy opponent, and might yet have given us the slip had it not been for Gobnait's heroics. Much respect, and well played!

I'm up for a silent Carmen vote tomorrow.

Izett Cruelsinger wrote:Just set my phone to remind me of the night poll's closing my time tomorrow. Good plan!

(I just wonder how many of us will actually still be alive. Not many... I assume. )

The night poll closes at the most ungodly hour for me. But I'll set the alarm too. Oh the thrill, what's one night's sleep compared to that!

Izett Cruelsinger wrote:0:33-0:37 - all you need to know!

Brilliant.

Fane Winebattle wrote:Shand, what are you doing? Even if he's telling the truth (which he assuredly isn't. There's no *secrets* next to Rumpy's role) what do we have to gain by dealing with him? Leaving him alive is the single most dangerous thing any of us could do. He's just trying to fool you.

Trust me good Fane, I'm not falling for it.

I was curious what he had in mind, if for nothing else, then for some entertainment value. Considering how short Bronwyn's lynch was, I think it will be only fitting if we all vote Queran as soon as the night post is up, and make his lynch even shorter! Now that would be justice.

My response to that, sir, is a succinct "meh." Give us specifics right now, and we can talk.

That does sound interesting. A man of your intelligence will surely agree though that it will be too late by then. Come sunrise, you will be as dead as every dead creature that has ever died.

Queran Gloomsoul wrote:You have straw, I have gold.

Still not getting it. But you already know how dumb we townies are.

You're so sweet. I'm all ears, go ahead, and entertain us a little. You owe us that much.

Queran Gloomsoul wrote:I can tell you exactly where you went wrong. AND I can offer you a way to get it all back. Of course lynching me will only bring you some satisfaction, but Accepting my deal might net the civvies a win.

Let me guess, we got to wait till daytime to talk about your "deal," correct?

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:If our nightly choice has to do with players who have been deaded, then maybe its for a rezz. The elf is the only choice who is confirmed townie, I think? Although I trusted the pixie and I think the sprite also. The sprite did point fingers at Queran, and the Pixie got us looking at Carmen. I'll think on this one a bit.

I'm voting Pixie. I hope your Rezz theory is correct. It would be nice to have Bac back with us, and might make things a bit more even.

RIP Ameerah, Bronwyn. RIP Rhinfrew too, I really dig your style, and it was fun playing with you, though you were clearly one of the Rumpletons.

Makes you wonder if we ever had a chance. The Witch and SKs have been killing at night, and Rumpel is killing during the day. I cannot, for a moment, imagine Roxy and Bea coming up with a game that was so unfair to the town. But I also don't know where we went so wrong. Maybe if we had trusted Gobnait, we could have gotten rid of Queran sooner. We've lynched townies, but Caillic and Jorhan were days 1 and 2, and it's always difficult to get baddies that early. Finnian was probably someone we could have given benefit of the doubt. But other than that I don't see what we could have done differently. To compensate, we also got some things right. We had Carmen as early as day 3. I certainly don't think we played *that* horribly to warrant being in a situation where a win might be all but impossible.

There are now 13 of us alive. Assuming that Rhinfrew was one of the Rumpies, there are three left in that team. Two SKs, one witch, and three secret roles (all probably on the Witch's team). That's 9 baddies left. Even if we assume a couple got NKed, that's still 7 baddies, and 6 townies. Oh well, we may still be able to pull this off.

No worries Bea. Hope things are fine with you, Roxy.

Rhinfrew, regarding discussion of night events, the town can always do that the next night.

I see Gobnait is checking the thread. I hope he's pleased to see his death hasn't been in vain.n Hats off to you, good sir. I admire how calm and rational you were this whole time when lesser players like me would most likely have lost it.

That's brilliant Ameerah. That removes the last shred of doubt!

Dallon Redwarlock wrote:Hang on. We were set on a plan and now we are being persuaded by the very person to be lynched to change that.

I think we should take a vote. Code or silence. Just post which and we'll make a count.

I prefer silence as much as possible. If we do feel the need to communicate, we can do so in any number of random ways. I think this is better than pre-deciding on the code. You could spell all words backwards, miss the first or last letter or each word, skip all vowels, swap the first and second letters of each word, basically misspell every word. Or simply pick a random language and use google translate. Re-translating in English would be easy since google auto-detects languages. Sure we may lose out on nuances, and it will be a tad inconvenient, but honestly I don't see what there is to talk about. Considering all our suspicions about Queran, and his responses today, is there anything left to discuss?

Queran, I think there are two different issues, and in an attempt to divert attention from one, it seems to me you are giving too much importance to the other.

Issue 1. We think you are on team Rumpie. I, for one, and I think a few others too, are well near convinced that this is so.
Issue 2. How do we get around Rumple's superpower?

Talking of this latter, there are dozens of ways of continuing to chat in the thread, many of which were brought up on day one. Speaking in anagrams, using google translate, using smiley faces, so on and so forth. I am sure, if there's really a need for a townie to post during the day tomorrow, they can and will find a way. Let's not worry too much about that, it's trivial, and doesn't need much in terms of cleverness to find out a way.

The real point, though, talk or no talk, is you will most likely get the most lynch votes tomorrow. If we talk like we have been talking in the past, the votes will be moved over, and another townie will bite the dust.

Thank you for responding Queran. I am really trying to look at it with an open mind, but I am having a hard time being convinced. Sorry, I know it's not easy for you to defend since many people, including me, seem to have made up our minds about you. The case against you is just too strong.

Also, I don't think anyone can accuse the town of being afraid of old Rumpie. The fact that so many of us are talking openly at night without fear of death is testimony to that. I think this is one of the bravest townie teams I have seen.

Queran, all suspicions against you aside (strong as they are), considering that Rumpel has been manipulating lynches with impunity, how can you call what the town has decided unfair? Instead of admonishing the town for deciding not to talk during the day, wouldn't it be better if you quell some of the suspicions now:

1. Gobnait, a lie detector, has been gunning for you pretty much all game.
2. What are your thoughts on Carmen? Would you be willing to put a lynch vote on her tomorrow?
3. As far as I remember, you were one of the three players who voted Gobnait yesterday. Considering the lynch divert, wouldn't it be reasonable for the town to assume that you are one of the Rumpel gang, and therefore had to switch only four votes to get a majority?

I'm up for a silent Carmen vote tomorrow. I also agree with you Fane (linkitis, and you too Bronwyn). My current thoughts are that her lynch-saves are more likely Rumpel's manipulation, rather than her being unlynchable. I once again would like to point out to the free thinkers and the Witch's team that Rumpel and his gang have shown us time and again that they are a much bigger threat than the town. The way the townies have been falling, I think we are few and far between, and have all but lost the game anyway.

If we're going for the silent treatment, I think it will also be wise to have a second option ready in case the SKs/Witch decide to help the town out. Other than Carmen, is there anyone else we should consider voting? Considering the epic Queran-Gobnait battles, I'm inclined to believe that Gobnait was on to something. But I'm not fully convinced about Queran yet.

Very interesting thoughts Dierdre and Miyuki. If Carmen is unlynchable, then that seems even more overpowered than Rumpel! I have seen unlynchable roles before, but never one that is also able to deflect the vote to someone else of their choosing. That just seems very unfair, and stacks the odds too much against the town. However, if that is indeed the case then I think you're absolutely right, there's nothing the town can do about her, but be at the Mafia's mercy. If Carmen is one of the SKs, or a secret solo baddie, then I do think it's in the Mafia's best interests to get rid of her before she becomes too dangerous for them. They don't need Carmen, there's enough chaos in the game as it is.

Miyuki Lovelymoth wrote:Frankly, I believe that all talking needs to start being done through the night phases, and none during the day at all. Every lynch so far, except days 1and 5, have been stolen by Rumplestiltskin.

I agree Miyuki. Gobnait mentioned this idea earlier in the game too. At the time, I thought it was bit of an overkill, but I am fully on board with you if everyone agrees. I don't think our hostesses will enjoy complete silence during the day, but these are desperate times. What does everyone else think?

RIP Gobnait. Your loss is most frustrating, and demoralizing. Here's to hoping that we get our acts together, despite everything, and avenge you. With six unsuccessful lynches in a row, I am not even sure we have a mathematical chance left, but we all hope.

I have mentioned this before, and the more I think about it, the more overpowered Rumpel's role seems to appear. As far as we can tell, he has manipulated three lynches so far: Carmen --> Bac, Finnian --> Mainchin, and Carmen --> Gobnait. That's half our lynches. Things are only going to get easier for him as our numbers continue to dwindle, and he has to switch over fewer and fewer votes.

It makes you wonder if there's any point to discussing suspects, and voting for them, when manipulation of lynch votes is so easily achieved, and at a massive scale too - by my calculations, anywhere between 4 to 7 votes were stolen during each of the three manipulated lynches. Even a single extra lynch vote is a pretty strong ability to have, but when the mafia is able to get five or six times that number, what do you do?

The Gobnait-Queran cases, while fraught with eloquence and wisdom, aren't conclusive enough for me to base a vote on. I have to vote now, however, since I won't be around when the poll closes. I choose Carmen. I realize her's is not a very enviable position to be in. People have posted their suspicions against her, and she has responded the best she could. But the sequence of events is such that nothing she could have said would have changed my mind anyway. The lynch divert, role hinting, duping the town into continuing to believe the role hints, and when a townie was lynched, saying that they weren't role hints is too much to ignore.

Carmen Brightsun wrote:Very interesting. Happy to still be alive . I'm voting Rune. Maybe a message will be revealed.

It was this (the second role hint, the first was "glass slippers") that removed all doubt from my mind that Carmen was hinting at her role, and quite deliberately too. I don't know if I buy the "I was being funny" argument. I'm not able to wrap my brain around why -- if she is a civvie -- Carmen would let the town think her role hints were genuine, if she didn't intend them to be. In my opinion, "you would have found me suspicious if I had told you" defense doesn't work if you are a townie. The real Prince Charming would have been very tempted to waste one search, and new or old to the game, you don't confuse a fellow townie like that.

I also agree with Miyuki that Carmen sounds like a different person, and wonder if there has been a replacement.

Anchorete Playfulure wrote:Synopsis would be a blessing

Good to see you and Lyel back! I was hoping you guys would be able to provide a fresh perspective on what has transpired so far. The way some of the past lynches have gone, I wouldn't recommend trusting anyone's synopses since they will naturally be filtered through their own agenda, and therefore, inherently biased.

RIP Etain and Bac.

The coolest hero, and the one I like the most, is the ever resourceful Hansel, who, against all odds, saves his little sister and himself from evil, by being awesome.

While Finnian's posts continue to be as confusing as ever, his survival of yesterday's lynch, followed by no redeeming posts has convinced me enough to place my vote for him.

I vote Finnian.

Also, I see the late Gaerwen is still part of the lynch poll. Is this an error, or are we missing something?

Considering that Finnian survived the fourth day lynch, I'm rethinking my position on him. Carmen has the same thing going against her as well, but I'm still wary about her role hints.

Finnian, just out of curiosity, do you yourself have any idea/theory as to how you survived the lynch?

Bac, I truly do admire your persistence and your confidence in your theories. Fact of the matter is, at this point in the game, your voice counts for a lot in this thread. Many people -- me included -- seem to be putting you down as a townie for now (though with all the secret stuff seemingly happening in the background, I am no longer as certain about you as I was before), and I fear that what you say may lead to a civilian getting lynched. Might I, in all my humbleness and in absolute good faith, request that you exercise a bit more caution when propounding your theories, especially when there's no factual basis for them. The case you make against Ameerah, it seems to me, is merely a collection of verbalized gut feelings. Gut feelings are extremely tempting, and I know from my own experience how overwhelming they can become. Gut feelings, also can be completely and utterly wrong. I, for one, don't know what Ameerah's affiliation is, but so far, I haven't gotten any baddie vibe from her.

Bac, do you mean team Rumpel may be using that particular word/phrase to vote anonymously? Maybe it's obvious, but I'm not seeing your point. For what it's worth, I found that four people have used that phrase in the game so far, but since they were spoken on different days I am confused as to what it could mean.

Ameerah: Days 2, 3
Bac: Days 2, 5
Miyuki: Day 4
Queran: Days 4, 5