The Syndicate

I'm with you guys.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

I'm sorry I haven't been around as much as I said.

I'm willing to vote for Golden or Vompatti. I'm resigned to the results, whatever they are. Neither player is really playing, and if they are town, we're toasted.

I do not believe I will be voting for Marmot today.

My reasoning is as follows.

1. There are two scum. Even IF Marmot happens to be scum (and I keep going back and forth), I know he's got a partner, and it might possibly be Golden.
2. I would rather lose this game to Marmot than to a team of Golden/Vompatti, and I think that no matter what the configuration at least one of the two are scum.

[mention]Epignósis[/mention] Do you disagree?

[mention]Dôm[/mention] Where are you in all this?

Gólden wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:58 pm Wilgy-- your zany appearance makes me think you bad!

The odd grammar choice and questionable reasoning in this post make me question things, but I'm not certain those things are alignment indicative.

Mármot wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:25 am Glorfindel

I was secretly hoping Glorfindel was nightkilled because it would eliminate my tinfoil read. I thought that if he wasn't bad, they might kill him to set me up. That didn't happen, and now I have to work through my feelings.

It was impossible to nightkill me, I think Unless the role matrix includes a piercer. I'd have to look.

I liked Glorfindel's early content because he was one of the few pointing out that we needed to focus on substance, not meta. Almost everyone has been focused on meta, and I don't think it has no place in the conversation, but it's place is certainly not at front and centre.

I really disliked Glorfindel's content in the last phase of day 2.

First there is this post:

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:13 am

Mármot wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:28 am Voting [VOTE: golden] aubergine

Mármot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:23 pmnoone asks for a supatown role without intending to deliver if town.

Guaranteed bad guy right there.

Besides, I liked dom's entry just then. That's the dom I know and trust. Town dom. Scratching dom from the list today. I trust dom, epignosis and glorfindel. That's a good town core right there.

I appreciate the trust, master Marmot. I also appreciate the sentiment from Wilgy, and Epi, and everyone else who townreads me. You are all good friends. But I worry that one of you is a wolf in sheep's clothing, buddying me. I don't want to get caught up in a town core this early in the game. It might end with me being swayed, and I don't trust all of your town core just yet. It's only day two.

Vompattï wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:43 pm I checked myself last night. Turns out I'm good.

Stop pretending to be me, k? Marmots are expensive in Finland.

Wilgy's 'case' on me is selective and terrible. He's doing a really good job of roleplaying ricochet. I pretty much hate that his rainbow list is literally identical to mine and yet he sees me as bad. That's some disingenuous shit right there.

Golden/Wilgy. Game solved

MacDougall, do you like origami?

Is disingenuous bad? And why? I don't disagree with your reads, but the two scumreads here are easy choices. Sorry, but I'm not ready to condemn the low off-topic poster and the rainbow lister. They are easy targets that don't talk.

If a big talker was scum, who would it be? And what do you think of Vompatti or Macdougall?

Even at the time, this made me uneasy. Glorfindel is saying he won't trust my list but not saying who he doesn't trust or why and not engaging in my reasons for reading them as town. This was the first time I had any doubt in my town read of glorf.

We didn't have a whole lot to go on, and as I said above, I thought accepting a town core this early might be a surefire way to lose. I was wrong. And, for the record, I was most worried about Epi.

I note the two extracts I've highlighted in red for comparison to later posts.

I didn't answer those questions at the bottom at the time, because even then my answer was that if one of those big talkers was bad it would be glorf, and that Vompatti and MacDougall were targets that were absolutely just as easy as Golden and Wilgy, but that I was actually providing active reasons for golden and wilgy being bad. As for 'is disingenuous bad' - yes. If you're lying about your read, you are bad, and frankly this question doesn't even need answering because it's ridiculous. Literally in saying disingenuous I'm saying 'Wilgy is lying about his read of me' - I don't understand how the question 'is this bad' even makes sense. It's meaningless. Anyway, that was just an initial feeling... it felt like glorf was being oppositional for the sake of being oppositional. Anyway, that's just the start of my point...

Okay, here is my biggest mistake, in two parts. I have never used the word disingenuous. I mistook it for dis-ingenious, which apparently isn't a damn word. Meaning un-inventive or un-original. So I was trying to figure out what you meant by that.

Luckily, saying that the reads "aren't original" is close to saying that they are lies, so on to the second part.

Yes, lying about reads makes someone bad. I was partly trying to figure things out. WHY, if Wilgy was lying about his reads, would he choose such a lie? What was wrong with the reads that made it look like lies? It looked like you were expecting him to like you because your reads matched his, which is absolute crap. It's easy for a scum-fake-marmot to fabricate a readlist that follows the general feel of the thread, then call out wilgy. "I have the same reads as you, why am I bad? Your reads must be fake."

And I reckon he could call you out FOR THE SAME THING! "Oh, marmot's reads match mine, except he scumreads me! He's so disingenuous LYING."

It still reads as horseshit, despite the genuineness of the post I am replying to. I'm going to need a better reason here.

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:18 am I think I know who is under Dom's skin suit and I think they are town in that light.

I will vote for Golden.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

Not but two posts and five minutes later, Glorfindel votes for someone that he has just said he is 'not ready to condemn'.

I was hoping to get more posts in the day phase. I was playing nice glorf, not ready to condemn anyone. I was hoping Golden would get his sorry ass in here.

And for the record, I was wrong about who Dom was. Still think they town though.

Then, towards the end of the phase, we got this (note, Glorfindel's vote is still on Golden)...

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:41 pm I have arrived with 5 minutes to spare, my friends

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:43 pm I will not argue with this tie.

Earlier in the day he criticised be for these two being the targets and wanted to widen things. But with a pretty close thing on the table, his vote on golden and me clearly saying my vote was up in the air... he's completely comfortable with the tie. And then this:

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:46 pm Oh, this isn't a tie. My apologies.

I am not really seeing why the good doctor's disingenuity makes him a baddie, but I trust 2/3 of the people that want to lynch him. I guess this was fated.

Wilgy had three votes, glorfindel's vote was on golden with two, and I was there saying I wasn't opposed to a vote for golden. And yet he still simultaneously demonstrates neither the belief that Wilgy is bad nor the suggestion that I should change back to golden. In fact, he is comfortable with it.

I didn't like the wilgy lynch, but I didn't exactly have a good way to persuade you off of it other than saying "why?"
(Which I further discussed above)

I suggest this behaviour makes perfect sense as a baddie - whether partners with golden or not.

Now this:

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:44 pm It may be the obvious answer, but in my opinion, Marmot looks bad on yesterday's lynch. I asked again and again for him to explain his reasons for suspecting master doctor wilgy, but all he said was that the good doc looked disingenuous.

I am beginning to not like that word.

Marmot explained that Wilgy was suspecting the same people as him, but also suspected him. I don't see why that is a problem.

Glorfindel asked me exactly once to describe my reasons, even though I already had. Apparently his complete ambivalence and non-effort at the end of the previous phase to convince me to vote golden instead of wilgy when I was saying I could go either way at the very same time equates to the same thing as 'asking me again and again'. Nah, you don't get to have it both ways. It's almost like he didn't want me to flip to golden in the moment but then wanted to hang me for it afterwards.

So Glorfindel goes from oppositional during the substantive phase to suddenly passive and compliant at phase end to oppositional again in the next phase...

Roleplaying. Trying to be nice. I'm done with that.

That progression really bothers me.

Given that I took the time to explain myself, I'll let you know, I appreciate this post. It has a wealth of content. It's not a bad reason for suspecting me. I don't suspect you for this particular post, and I feel better about the wilgy lynch than I did in the aftermath.

But I am town. Take that with the glorf seal of approval, even if I'm dropping all other aspects of the roleplay. I am a doctor out of syringes.

Mármot wrote: ↑Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:25 am This is probably lylo, so I'm going to start shedding roleplay and get down to business. Jay cares about balance, and his ration of baddies to civilians in a vanilla-heavy closed setup is 2 to 8 (see Jay's balance worksheet), so I think we can assume two baddies.

Alright, fine. Screw roleplay for a moment here.

It's Mylo if there are two scum, not lylo.

I am the 2-shot doctor. My target night one was Marmot. My target night 2 was myself, as I thought that I looked pretty darn towny. I should have accounted for role-players who are playing strong town leaders. I have wasted my role, and I'm sorry about that, but at least we know what world we are in.

I'm not used to games this small. I was genuinely leery of setting up a town core this early, because if we put a scum in there, it's a guaranteed loss. I see now, in a game this size, that you have to make some assumptions to get anywhere. It's a guaranteed loss if we don't POE the heck out of everything anyway.

On that note, I'm glad we lost Wilgy of all the townfolk to lose. This game is full of people roleplaying low posters, and I'll admit that I was one of them, in a way. That is over with. I'm going right back to "content spewer" right now, and while I'll keep roleplaying the necessities for Glorfindel, I'm withdrawing from the niceties.

It's hard to scumhunt while playing as Glorfindel, the nicest person to ever live. I'd like to introduce myself as Ghoulfinder, a clone of glorf with just as much honesty (I can keep my roleplaying badge) and a healthy dose of aggravation and aggression. Let's see what we can do today.

Epignósis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:40 am What in the literal hell happened in here last night?

It may be the obvious answer, but in my opinion, Marmot looks bad on yesterday's lynch. I asked again and again for him to explain his reasons for suspecting master doctor wilgy, but all he said was that the good doc looked disingenuous.

I am beginning to not like that word.

Marmot explained that Wilgy was suspecting the same people as him, but also suspected him. I don't see why that is a problem.

I'm not sure about Dom. I'll need to look at him. Vom patti... Who knows why he voted.

Oh, this isn't a tie. My apologies.

I am not really seeing why the good doctor's disingenuity makes him a baddie, but I trust 2/3 of the people that want to lynch him. I guess this was fated.

I will not argue with this tie.

I have arrived with 5 minutes to spare, my friends

Epignósis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:50 pm

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:18 am I think I know who is under Dom's skin suit and I think they are town in that light.

I will vote for Golden.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

Why Golden?

Golden's posts just don't look good. I have at least one reason to townread everyone else here, but Golden. It is a easy vote to fall on, though, so don't think I'm not looking at other people!
He was also the only good alternative to Dom at the time, and I think Dom is townie. Based on yesterday, I wasn't sure if we would get more discussion but here we are!

I'm glad you clarified that you were doing a meta joke at me, even if that wasn't very nice. It makes me feel better about you. I'm super glad you are feeling better after your stomach bug too!

MacDöugall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:39 am I think you are a civ. DrWilgy is a civ. Epignosis and Dom are sus. Vompatti and Golden are null. Marmot is scum.

Why is Marmot a scumster?

MacDöugall wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:32 am

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:18 am I think I know who is under Dom's skin suit and I think they are town in that light.

I will vote for Golden.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

Of course if you're a freakin pleb you would read Dom as town at face value. But when you're a legend like me you can use remote viewing when reading posts to see the face of the person posting it at the time they made the post.

Who do you suspect, master Macdougall?

I think I know who is under Dom's skin suit and I think they are town in that light.

I will vote for Golden.

[VOTE: Golden] aubergine

Mármot wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:44 am Look what I woke up to

Beautiful

Mármot wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:28 am Voting [VOTE: golden] aubergine

Mármot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:23 pmnoone asks for a supatown role without intending to deliver if town.

Guaranteed bad guy right there.

Besides, I liked dom's entry just then. That's the dom I know and trust. Town dom. Scratching dom from the list today. I trust dom, epignosis and glorfindel. That's a good town core right there.

I appreciate the trust, master Marmot. I also appreciate the sentiment from Wilgy, and Epi, and everyone else who townreads me. You are all good friends. But I worry that one of you is a wolf in sheep's clothing, buddying me. I don't want to get caught up in a town core this early in the game. It might end with me being swayed, and I don't trust all of your town core just yet. It's only day two.

Vompattï wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:43 pm I checked myself last night. Turns out I'm good.

Stop pretending to be me, k? Marmots are expensive in Finland.

Wilgy's 'case' on me is selective and terrible. He's doing a really good job of roleplaying ricochet. I pretty much hate that his rainbow list is literally identical to mine and yet he sees me as bad. That's some disingenuous shit right there.

Golden/Wilgy. Game solved

MacDougall, do you like origami?

Is disingenuous bad? And why? I don't disagree with your reads, but the two scumreads here are easy choices. Sorry, but I'm not ready to condemn the low off-topic poster and the rainbow lister. They are easy targets that don't talk.

If a big talker was scum, who would it be? And what do you think of Vompatti or Macdougall?

Epignósis wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:02 pm

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:32 am It's so hard to read people with so few posts, and not knowing who anyone is. But I feel good about Marmot right now, and maybe Golden, for their contributions. Not as great about Epi and Dom. Epi's been avoiding discussion, and I don't like his vote for marmot where it was. Dom just gives me the willies with the reasoning of his vote on Jay...

I want more talking if we can, because I'm not confident in these at all.

Wrong:

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:50 pm

Epignósis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:42 pm Now we’re talking.

Hey Glorfindel- I have two questions for you:

1) Are you a civvie?
2) Are you mafia?

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:55 pm I come back to mafia for one special game, leave for 24 hours, and this is what I come back to? I don't know why I even try. I'm not going to be addressing any alignment questions, or questions about alignment questions.

If I'm guilty of avoiding discussion, can I call you Pot?


But what would you like to talk about- the fact that in a game designed around player meta that very few of us even make meta-sense? Because that's where we're at right now as far as I can see.

That's not how I want to play this game. I don't lie. I won't lie. I am me because I won't lie.

I'm not going to use that on my alignment. I want to be treated like any other player. I'm going to play like those posts never happened.

RIP dunya Wish we got a chance to talk

It's so hard to read people with so few posts, and not knowing who anyone is. But I feel good about Marmot right now, and maybe Golden, for their contributions. Not as great about Epi and Dom. Epi's been avoiding discussion, and I don't like his vote for marmot where it was. Dom just gives me the willies with the reasoning of his vote on Jay...

I want more talking if we can, because I'm not confident in these at all.

I'm sorry JiggySlooneiJay, I thought I had a decent D1 read.

[VOTE: Jiggedjimmyjay] aubergine

I can't exactly explain this beyond a gut feeling. Jay has been prodding all different players and not following up.

[mention]JiggedJammyJay[/mention] Do you still think Golden is scum?

I don't know how to judge inactivity in this game because I don't know who anyone is. Golden could be the real drwilgy and be role playing kinda badly. I don't know if I want to lynch him for that, and dunya is even worse if we judge like that. She has one post.

Dôm wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:24 pm

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:05 pm [VOTE: Dunya] aubergine

no you didn't. Why say you did when you didn't?

same question for marmot; he said he was self voting and he didn't. why?

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Sorry, I forgot.

Does Marmot self-vote when bad? In my opinion it doesn't seem like a good move for mafia.

Gólden wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:58 pm In my experience, Dom is not a player that "chooses" to go after someone. He probes endlessly of anyone.

That quadruple post from Jay seems very uncharacteristic.

How much does that mean in a game where everyone is faking? In my opinion we will have to look past that sort of thing.

I come back to mafia for one special game, leave for 24 hours, and this is what I come back to? I don't know why I even try. I'm not going to be addressing any alignment questions, or questions about alignment questions.

Epignósis wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:42 pm Now we’re talking.

Hey Glorfindel- I have two questions for you:

1) Are you a civvie?
2) Are you mafia?

JiggedJammyJay wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:09 pm

Glōrfindel wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:06 am Greetings, my friends. I'm glad I have the chance to play with you all again!

Hey Glorf. I was pleased to see this enthusiasm to begin the game. Where has it gone? Huh? You haven't had a thing to say since!

I'm sorry my friends, I've been away at a retreat for the last 24 hours. I'll be catching up now.

Greetings, my friends. I'm glad I have the chance to play with you all again!