The Syndicate

Lot wrote:Looks like Jacob was Joshua.

Not the first time I've heard that in the last twenty four hours.

I promise I am not going to vote her straight out of the gate. But I highly doubtmy mind will be changed. I'll listen though.

I think you are best served looking at Rahab when that happens. Just my two cents.

Let's be honest here, I'm going to be the next night kill anyway.

Rahab wrote:Well, I know where I would prefer to vote, but Esther's the next best thing. Hope it's right.

This seriously looks like distancing. If esther flips bad you definitely will be getting my next vote.

If that is true then I have some questions for the host at end game. But for the most part, I trust you. And I already voted so I'm trying not I go down any rabbit holes at the moment.

Laz putting me at the top of his trust list has me seriously baffled. Why me and not Lot? And why are they voting each other. Endgame always makes me really paranoid and I am tinfoil hatting all over the place right now.

I just need to stop stressing and cast my vote. Esther, you sound civ, it scares me, but Lot's analysis looks valid and at times I have felt like you were super blendy. I'm sorry if I'm wrong but I have to vote somewhere and I'm still leaning you.

Laz, why do you trust me more than anyone else?

I'll vote Esther.

I am leaning towards Esther today. The other two seem like a riskier move and I'm not sure that we can afford a risky move at the moment.

Bathsheba, I already said I don't understand why they are doing it, but either it is not what we are discussing or what I know of is not what I think it was. That's the best answer I can give. As to Malchus and whoever the other was, I realize that it looks like a mod kill, but I highly doubt that. Epi is not the kind of person who just changes their mind on a topic like this. I have no clue why they occurred but I don't think they were mod kills.

Also, it would make no sense if Malchus were mod killed, Epi does not believe in mod kills. There is no question in my mind that Marcus was intentionally killed. But the role description for Phinehas does not seem like it would operate that way, so I am thinking this may be some kind of misdirection, but I don't understand it.

Rahab wrote:

Job wrote:

Uzziah wrote:Yay!

I'm voting you until one of us is dead.

Job and Uzziah were voting each other like Lazarus and Lot are now, although I think it blended in better (especially since, y'know, Uzziah was actually bad and Job had good reasoning). Anyway, I laughed at this statement as a joke when Job said it, but I'm thinking that's how the curse actually works - whoever is pitted against the other will continue to do so until one of them actually dies. So yeah, long time

It is my belief that you are incorrect about this. I don't understand why they both keep on voting for each other. Even if it is horseman imposed something on the two of them there is nothing to me to suggest their votes would be forced.

Voting Rebbecca, seems straightforward to me andI see nothing else I can add the I this current convo. Tomorrow will be interesting I think.

Lot, I apologize for waffling about you, I think I have you slotted for a certain role. I just feel like exactly when I start trusting you, you pull some crazy crap and it throws me off balance.

I can see where Stelhen is coming from and m willing to get behind a Deb vote.

Bathsheba wrote:

Samuel wrote:
Regarding Esther I am open to discussion on, since she and bathsheba were two who parroted the incorrect statement that I had not answered the question.

This does not make me see Esther as bad because I still don't think you answered the questions that were asked. Instead you refused to answer saying we were trying to bait you. I was only asking two questions and even though I told you I didn't suspect you at the time your answer was defensive and unhelpful.

This is blatantly false. I outlined two people I suspected directly after I was asked and why on one of them, an explanation on the second later. You don't make me feel any better about you Bathsheba.

Bathsheba wrote:RIP Absalom. I can't say I'm surprised because if you weren't heathen they had to get you out of here right away because your instincts are so good and people follow you. Jonah goodbye as well and RIP.

Pilate I don't understand where your belief that Lot is bad comes from. You say it's not his vote records so it must be the things he does and says. You listed as an example him mentioning Isaac trying to gain civ cred because he probably is bad and knew isaac was good. What else you got? It doesn't seem like that's really enough to call someone a heathen. It may raise a flag but you used it as the only example I can find of why you voted him. I may have missed some earlier things, sorry if you have to repeat yourself.

Stephen, Esther has also been pinging me but it seems to boil down for the most part to her not carefully reading the thread and missing things that she then comes at people about. What are you seeing in her?

What about the fact that Lot pulled hard for us not to lynch Ruth because it might be a trap, while he voted Laz and then when Ruth got lynched without incident he proceeded to talk about suspecting those who voted Isaac invested of Ruth?

Regarding Esther I am open to discussion on, since she and bathsheba were two who parroted the incorrect statement that I had not answered the question.

I've never seen anything like this... I had not noticed the red thing until this last post. But I'm not sure what it might mean.

Absalom wrote:I just don't understand you, Samuel. You have no defense, no suspicions, you're basically admitting to contributing nothing and making no effort to change that. You are doing no analysis, making no effort to find bad guys. All you do, over and over, is say "I'm not bad." If it were my life on the line, I would be trying to save it.

You're not suspected because you voted for a lot of civs. You're suspected because of the timing of those votes. I've asked you to find me someone who looks worse than you
to help persuade me, but you've refused to do so. I just don't get you at all.

Look, I'm not not trying to figure out who is bad, but apparently I am way off in my suspects. I don't care if you get me or not. I would not say I am not contributing, but no I'm not contributing the same as some others. I just don't honestly have a clue who is bad and I can't force myself to think someone is to satisfy you. Nor do I care to.

Isaac said it perfectly in his post, shit records can be misleading. I get it if you all lynch me. I'm not angry, there is just nothing else that I can say in my defense. But it doesn't change my alignment. So I'm just done talking. I honestly have no idea who is bad. If I come across something else to share I will. In the meantime, I've got nothing.

And why would a heathen throw off their vote when casting it would have saved him? You think I'm bad, vote me. I'm not bad. I just have nothing else to say really. I can't help that I'm wrong which is why I didn't understand asking for who I think is bad in the first place, considering I'm suspected because I have voted for a lot of civs. Do what you feel you gotta do, but you really won't like the result. I know that is just my word and not convincing, but it is the truth and its all I've got.

It won't clear his name. In fact, I am unconvinced of Jonah again, because I missed something. Disregard my earlier comment about him.

One last thing, I think I may have been wrong about Jonah. There is a chance he may be a heathen after all. I think I missed a detail that once taken into account it changes things for me. It would actually make me put him back on my list. I need to revisit the last time he was active.

I am voting Isaac.

Samuel wrote:I am civ.

I obviously don't trust isaac. Lot's recent behavior has me questioning him. I realize we have no reason basis to judge Bathsheba on, but I don't want to give someone a pass just because they replaced in. I don't know. If I had a better idea of who bad my voting record wouldn't be so bad now would it?

If you want to understand why I am pissed it is because of a combination of two things. First, this bull about me not answering the question keeps floating around and getting repeated as a reason I am suspicious. I did answer the question as soon as it was asked of me. And I had another post, I believe it was earlier than this about why I find Lot's behavior suspicious. The only thing I didn't clarify was what in particular has me suspecting Isaac. I actually had written a post but it was not there when I went back to find it today, so I must have lost it without knowing. I was posting from work last night. The reason I suspect Isaac is because when it ended in a tie between Mordecai and Isaac, Mordecai threw his vote off instead of using it to save himself. This makes no sense to me if Isaac is civ. It only makes sense if Mordecai and Isaac are on a team.

The second reason I was so pissed was because I was unwisely posting from work in the midst of what was literally the worst day I have had at this job since I started back in March. So i should not have been posting then because I was already worked up about stuff unrelated to mafia and my patience was already thin. For this reason I apologize about the bad gameplay comment. However, I do believe there has been a lot of faulty logic in this game. We lynched Jonathon based on vote record and it only got us a civ lynch and how many others? You will be repeating this mistake if you lynch me. Voting records can net you baddies, but you can't divorce intuition from mafia completely because civs can have bad voting records as well. I was pissed because I felt like my words were being twisted, my valid responses ignored, and I was about to fall prey to the same thing Jonathon did.

Esther asked me if I could see how my vote looked bad. One of the first things I posted after I voted was that I could see how my vote looked bad, because I can. But no matter how it looks, it doesn't change the fact that I am indeed a civilian and you don't want to lynch me.

Regardless, I have played a shitty game myself, so if you lynch me so be it. But it won't be a happy day for the people of god, believe me. Anyway, I'm done, do what you want.

Absalom wrote:

Samuel wrote:No. You all have already decided to lynch me so do it. Then see how badly you have played this game. The mafia deserve to win frankly. I'm done talking.

I can't speak for others, but I haven't decided any such thing. I am curious about the Jonah reference though. Why did you bring him up instead of Malchus or someone else inactive? It was so out of the blue and specific. I'm interested in weird things.

You say you don't believe there was a wagon on Isaac because your vote was honest, but those things aren't mutually exclusive. Your vote could be honest, and Rahab's and Deborah's could be sinister.

Why do the mafia deserve to win when we've lynched all but two of them? I think we're doing rather well. If you really are concerned about the civ cause, try helping us baddie hunt instead of pouting. It's unbecoming.

I have my reasons for mentioning him that week become clear once you lynch me. I don't care what is unbecoming. I can't help that my vote record is bad, shop why in goods name will me trekking your who is bad help. I don't know. But I have you the people I would start with and why. And threw in someone I have a very definitive opinion on. So take it or leave it. I rally don't care anymore.

The only thing I have left to say is that I did answer that question. I don't feel the need to be baited into more conversation that you will twist up. I am civ andLynching me will only hurt the civ win. But I don't really care. So let's have this lynch over. Vote me. Put your money where you mouth is and see just how bad all your logic is.

No. You all have already decided to lynch me so do it. Then see how badly you have played this game. The mafia deserve to win frankly. I'm done talking.

*considering, not consisting

Absalom wrote:

Samuel wrote:I am civ.

Well, that's settled then. Now if we can only get the Heathens to be so direct.

Samuel wrote: I obviously don't trust isaac. Lot's recent behavior has me questioning him. I realize we have no reason basis to judge Bathsheba on, but I don't want to give someone a pass just because they replaced in. I don't know. If I had a better idea of who bad my voting record wouldn't be so bad now would it?

So you don't think the wagon on Isaac means anything?
What behavior of Lot's?

No I don't know that I put that much Weight in it consisting you believe my vote to be a wagon attempt to save Ruth even though it wasn't. I have the benefit of clear vision regarding my own vote because I know my alignment.

Because I was asked my opinions.

I feel certain that Jonah is not a heathen. Either he is horseman or he is civ. Bit I think it is extremely unlikely he is heathen. I don't feel any need to vote there ay the moment.

And come on, why would a heathen vote for Ruth? That is the stupidest thing a heathen could have done. It would be an easy vote for her team matters to use to look civ. I voted the way I decided in that split second and I have no regrets about my vote. You are declaring isaac good based on my late vote in part. Consider if I am civ, what does that mean for isaac? I am civ.

I am civ.

I obviously don't trust isaac. Lot's recent behavior has me questioning him. I realize we have no reason basis to judge Bathsheba on, but I don't want to give someone a pass just because they replaced in. I don't know. If I had a better idea of who bad my voting record wouldn't be so bad now would it?

Let me be clear. Lynching me will not get the result you all are hoping for unless you are not a civ. No one good will like the end result. You can present voting records in whatever way you want. Civs can have bad voting records. I am not bad in any way shape or form. Lynching me would be a tactical mistake, plain and simple.

Also, I think there were only three or four votes that Laz voted Lot ifit not mistaken.

I understand why my vote looks bad, but the truth is I came in thinking I may have missed the vote, saw I had literally one minute and voted in a panic. If I were a heathen, it would have been really fucking stupid to out myself in such a way to save a confirmed teammate. And I am not sure that I would have voted any differently if I had not cast a panic vote at the last minute. I don't trust a Rez by a dead role with a win con I don't know, but that I know wasn't on my team. So I stand by my vote.

I find it interesting that Lot, who pushed for us NOT to vote Ruth, is eyeballing the people who didn't. That makes no sense.

It would be a severe mistake to lynch me, I can say that. Because I am civ. I highly recommend you look elsewhere.

Honestly, I just voted quickly. I had one minute until the vote ended and I did NOT want to miss another one.

I think he fell asleep at the keyboard.

I owe you all an apology for missing the vote. I fell asleep on the couch after work and woke up after the lynch was over. Fail on my part.

Why did Mordecai throw off his vote when he could have saved himself?

I voted Isaac. I don't feel as confident in him as others seem to, but I feel very sure about Lot so I am voting to hopefully help him out.

Belshazzar, do you believe Jonah to be heathen, horseman or Civ?

Whats it going to be Mordy? Where you going to put your ass saving vote? Might tell a lot about what side you're playing for, huh?

I'm not planning on voting him. I will do what I can to save you. But I think the answer to my question might help me clarify how I feel about other players, which is why I ask.

You're thinking possible heathen?

I don't want a huge long answer to this, the tl;dr posts are good (and yes, I read them all) but that's not what I'm interested in hearing.

Oh boy... I was leaning Mordecai, but I can see the case on Isaac too. I find Mordecai and Belshazzar most suspicious personally. But others seem to be thinking we will get the most information from Isaac. Arg!

I have one question I would like to hear everyone's answer to, what is your feeling on Jonah right now? Any thoughts on possible alignment?

Lot wrote:

Samuel wrote:

Esther wrote:I really think Jonathan is a good bet. He was 6th to vote for Jeph but 19th to vote overall. If he turns out bad, it will give us a small number of people (Jeph voters - Lot, Rebecca, Balaam, Sam, Laz) to look at next and and we are sure to catch at least one more baddie right away. Obviously they are not all bad, but if Jonathan is bad, I bet at least one of the others is too. I am going to go ahead and place my vote on Jonathan today.

I get voting for Jonathon but your theory regarding if he flips bad then there must be more baddies there seems ill conceived. How many civs have been lynched this game? Did youto through each one of them and kill everyone who voted them because hey, there must be baddies in there, right? Basing it entirely on this vote is silly, especially given the presence of Laz's vote in there. Baddies usually hold their votes to see if they need to save themselves or their teammates, once that clinching vote dropped on there they can safely distance themselves from a civ lynch. I voted Jeph, I suspected him for days for his behavior earlier in the game. I was wrong. But I am a civ. So this logic to me seems ludicrous because you are likely to waste lynches trying to find the baddie if you go simply on one vote when we have a whole game full of information.

And my alert goes off.

If Jonathan was bad, then there was a massive lynch train on Jeph when Jonathan had the lead in votes. Even if none of them are bad, why would it be 'ludicrous' and 'likely to waste lynches' to consider someone else might be helping to save him?

I agree that basing it on one vote is silly, but Esther did make a good point. And I say that knowing that me and my friend Balaam's ass are both in that train.

What does the presence of Lazarus vote in there have to do with it?

If I have to explain that then either I have misunderstood something or I understood right but not everyone understood in which case it's better that I say nothing else IMO. So I'm leaving that alone.

Considering I know I am a civ and I fully believe you are too, and you seem pretty damn sure Balaam is too, that leaves only two others aside from Jonathon. But you don't know I'm not so I could easily be lynched based on that alone given this idea and it would be a mistake. And I think it would be a mistake to ignore the final three votes placed as well. Don't underestimate the power of being able to cast your vote off to avoid being involved in a civ lynch train.

So I think it could easily result in wasted civ lynches and ignore people who need to be considered. Basing future lynches on one lynch vote when we have this many days of information is foolish if you ask me. Lynch me if you want and you will see just how well this line of thing serves you.

I'm voting Jonathon.

Esther wrote:

Absalom wrote:

Esther wrote:RIP Jeph.

Absalom wrote:I'm a little surprised at the late push on Geoff. All day it was all Jacob all the time and then Jacob takes one lousy vote? Where did the enthusiasm for a Geoff lynched come from?

And before anyone jumps down my throat, I know a couple of people have suspected Geoff for a while, but not nearly the number that voted for him. I will have to look into this carefully ere morning comes.

So are you thinking we ought to look at Jeph voters then? Ad do you think they were trying to save Jonathan?

I don't know yet. Give me the night to sleep and think about it. I still think Jonathan is bad news though.

Stephen wrote:I agree completely with Absalom. I still think Jonathan is bad. No idea why we lynched Jep yesterday.

votes Jonathan

I really think Jonathan is a good bet. He was 6th to vote for Jeph but 19th to vote overall. If he turns out bad, it will give us a small number of people (Jeph voters - Lot, Rebecca, Balaam, Sam, Laz) to look at next and and we are sure to catch at least one more baddie right away. Obviously they are not all bad, but if Jonathan is bad, I bet at least one of the others is too. I am going to go ahead and place my vote on Jonathan today.

I get voting for Jonathon but your theory regarding if he flips bad then there must be more baddies there seems ill conceived. How many civs have been lynched this game? Did youto through each one of them and kill everyone who voted them because hey, there must be baddies in there, right? Basing it entirely on this vote is silly, especially given the presence of Laz's vote in there. Baddies usually hold their votes to see if they need to save themselves or their teammates, once that clinching vote dropped on there they can safely distance themselves from a civ lynch. I voted Jeph, I suspected him for days for his behavior earlier in the game. I was wrong. But I am a civ. So this logic to me seems ludicrous because you are likely to waste lynches trying to find the baddie if you go simply on one vote when we have a whole game full of information.

Absalom wrote:Is this the Rachel post you reference?

Jonathan wrote:

Rachel wrote:

Jonathan wrote:I've looked at my past thoughts about Absalom and can't find anything that's a baddie read for me. But I know not everyone agrees with me on that. If he's good I don't know why he has chosen to attack me without reading my posts. There is a running diary of why I voted some people and not others and Uzziah is mentioned throughout the days - maybe not everyday I haven't checked that but his name pops up a lot in my thoughts about the game. He would get a fuller perspective if he would consider the two in concert.

So why would lynching you have any bearing on Absalom's alignment?

Sorry I missed this. Maybe I worded that wrong. Lynching me could have a bearing on his perceived alignment in that I am good and it could/would be seen as a black mark on his record. Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe when I flip civ if I'm lynched people will forgive him for getting it wrong. I just don't want anyone to be able to say "she should have defended herself more".

Basically you are saying I shouldn't lynch you because it might make me look bad. I don't care whether I look bad. I care whether I do the best I can to catch baddies.

You know who worries a lot about whether they look bad? Guilty people.

Absalom, I would humbly say here that I feel sure at this point I was wrong about you earlier. This is so very true. People who worry about how they will appear to the rest of the voters always seem guilty to me because a civ is less concerned with how they look and more concerned with trying to sort out the truth.

I should clarify. Belshazzar's vote for Jonathon and Rachel's vote for Jacob, Mordecai's vote for Balaam fit what I am talking about. I think however, that Jonathan's vote for Jeph looks less suspect because Of the timing of his vote, if he were bad and expected a civ result he probably would have avoided getting on that train. However, he could have been bad and expected a different result, maybe a horseman or something. Hard to say for sure but I think that vote makes him less likely to be a Heathen personally.

The votes that came in after Laz put his vote on Jeph are the ones that interest me. Because they could safely distance from a teammate at that point if needed. There would be no concern that it might bite them in the butt and accidentally lynch someone. Just my thoughts as I looked at the technicolor lists...

Because it was the way it read to me, that was what seemed ridiculous

Sorry if it seems like overreaction, it just seemed ridiculous to me given I have thought (incorrectly) that he was suspicious for days now. :shrugs: