The Syndicate

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:26 am Secret: nobody knows how to play mafia. We just pretend.

Speak for yourself, I don’t even pretend I know what I’m doing!

Well played baddies, you deserved this one Thanks for the fun game Epi!

Lame. I'm going to bed, have fun lynching a civ.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:14 pm long CON
dyslexiCON

COINCIDENCE?

I THINK NOT

I noticed this earlier and thought it was funny.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:47 pm what is the case against jack

I mentioned a couple of things earlier on, one of which was his dismissive and outright hostile attitude to early suspicions. The post I quoted where he tells Nutella that he thinks she's town but will tunnel her if she doesn't drop her suspicion of him is all kinds of shady. Listed Luna as a townlean and voted Sloonei the day she was lynched.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:38 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:38 pm I'm happy to [VOTE: JackofHearts] aubergine based on his vote history and attitude toward suspicions as mentioned in my earlier post.

Linki: I was being criticised for not having taken any strong stances or shown many opinions, now I'm being criticised for trying to do that.

Hey at least I used human words and not cat words.

This is true, I appreciate you not meowing at me.

I'm happy to [VOTE: JackofHearts] aubergine based on his vote history and attitude toward suspicions as mentioned in my earlier post.

Linki: I was being criticised for not having taken any strong stances or shown many opinions, now I'm being criticised for trying to do that.

DH I am interested in your point about us voting the same person in a bid to not die. If we can agree upon a mutual suspect it may be worthwhile. Personally I wouldn't mind a Jack or Speed lynch today but could be swayed to Sprit or K-Ness based on their records. I don't think it's worth lynching an inactive. Curious who you think I'm distancing from exactly.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:16 pm Bulls if you vote for me then I'll have to vote for you which puts us at a null point. but if we vote for the same, different person, then that person will have two votes.

Damn, you're good at maths.

Going through and reviewing the ISOs of the remaining players. I had planned to do this today anyway but got pushed into defense mode.


3 posts, literally nothing to comment on. DF is good at being a blendy low-flying baddie but I don't think we're seeing that here, I think he's just not had the time to play.


Thank God DH showed up to save us all and deliver us from our failures. Reading just his posts alone you can easily see his frustration with the way the Marmot case was presented to him. There are posts that could be read as attempts at defending Marmot or attempts to discredit the case being built against him until DH ultimately has to accept the bandwagon. It looks like I might have to vote for him out of self-preservation at this rate tbh.


Seven posts, last vote was a mostly unexplained jump onto the Elo bandwagon. Suspicious to an extent but hardly seems worth lynching someone who isn't playing.


Wilgy's first on topic post was about an hour ago as I type this. Not much else to say.


90% sure Dys is civ based on their actions, the only minor pings I have are their early push on Sloonei and the Simon vote they totally meant to change to Marmot but the lynch just happened to end before they could.


Jack's attitude towards suspicion has given me baddie vibes from early on, stuff like this:

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:27 pm “The sign-up thread mentions that the baddies recruit roles, not players.”

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:02 pm

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:28 pm Jack yeah the post I quoted was ok, I'm talking about all the others and the way you are "defending"/conducting yourself in the face of scrutiny. The like... faux-confidence is not working on me.

It’s not faux, the defense or confidence.

Seriously, leave me alone before I tunnel you. I’m tone reading you off the charts good but I don’t like much of your actual actions.

in lieu of any reasoned response seems shady to me.

Jack voted Sloonei during the Luna lynch but voted Marmot in both following lynches. I'm not giving anyone points for voting Marmot on Day Five, it was a foregone conclusion he was going to be bandwagoned so I wouldn't be surprised if his entire team bussed him. I could see a vote for Jack.


Voted Sloonei during the Luna lynch and missed the vote during Marmot/Simon. Not got the best voting record on that basis. Otherwise I'm not sure, but if this was a rainbow list K-Ness would be a delightful shade of orange.


Voted for Luna, and voted Marmot twice. Notably called out the Sloonei case as weird garbage during Day 3 and went after Luna. Began a fanfiction series which he abandoned after four volumes, leaving fans comparing him to GRRM and not in a good way. This can be forgiven as I feel fairly confident he's civ.


Luna went after LC fairly early, and LC made a fairly solid push against Luna during her lynch. These two factors make me inclined to trust him. His vote for Simon looks a bit shifty but beyond that everything's great.


Kinda forgot this person was still alive. Only vote in the game is for Quin. There isn't really enough in their ISO for me to form an opinion either way.


I've already pointed out my issues with his voting record. Earlier on he was also trying to force suspicions out of me having made comments that were very obviously jokes. I think he's seen an easy target in someone (me) who has been a bit too busy to play and hasn't really had a lot of time to get fully invested.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:26 pm Bullseye is like "the defense of sloonei is jus wifom, "and it's like yeah. So we're the accusations

This is an interesting criticism of the Sloonei accusations when you consider that it's coming from someone who had voted Sloonei that day.


Made one post, last logged in on the 25th of September. Not really an entity here.


Voted Sloonei over Luna, missed the Simon Vs Marmot vote. Seemed to push Sloonei pretty hard on Day 3, could've been an attempt to keep attention off Luna. Going back over his posts reminded me of how he laughed off LC's suspicion at the beginning of Day 4 and how I found that suspicious in itself. Marmot made a halfhearted push against him a couple of times, but could easily see that as distancing.


NO U. I thought TH's post during Day Three trying to push the vote away from Luna/Sloonei and onto Nova was an attempt at a save. I know he now claims it was bait but w/e. TH voted both Luna and Marmot though so who knows. For someone with over 200 posts, a surprising amount of it is basically fluff.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:00 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:55 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:46 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:42 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:38 pm Its not like I'm saying you've done awfully. I'm just saying you could be doing much better. And fortunately I'm here to make sure that happens.

who do you think should be lynched today?

The bullzeye case appeals to me.

How much of that is influenced by the fact we're both leading the lynch right now?

Speed makes some good points against you. Not to mention the interest around the case would generate a shitload more discussion whichever way you were to flip. And yes we're leading the poll atm and I don't want to get lynched.

Nor do I tbf.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:46 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:42 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:38 pm Its not like I'm saying you've done awfully. I'm just saying you could be doing much better. And fortunately I'm here to make sure that happens.

who do you think should be lynched today?

The bullzeye case appeals to me.

How much of that is influenced by the fact we're both leading the lynch right now?

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:49 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:40 amGiven himself a lovely bit of wiggle room there for when I flip civ and he can say "damn, I was 25% sure he wasn't bad". It's interesting to me that Speedchuck's first vote for a baddie was the second Marmot lynch, he didn't vote Luna and voted Simon during the tie.

So are you saying that Speed is scum and that you want him lynched or are you more concerned about discrediting him because of his opinion of you? Cause it looks more like the latter to me.

Today I'm probably going to have to vote defensively but honestly at this stage I wouldn't mind a Speed lynch. I felt a bit off about his and TH's buddying in the push against me so I read his ISO and realised he's never voted for a baddie except when basically everyone who's playing did.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:18 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:40 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:54 am Finally read the Bullz case cover-to-cover and it looks like a solid piece of work to ya boi.

I also like that its not a full on "Here's how Bullz is bad" thing, and is careful enough to put him at "75%" bad instead.

Given himself a lovely bit of wiggle room there for when I flip civ and he can say "damn, I was 25% sure he wasn't bad". It's interesting to me that Speedchuck's first vote for a baddie was the second Marmot lynch, he didn't vote Luna and voted Simon during the tie.

"Speedchuck's just trying to make sure he looks good."
"Speedchuck has been on the wrong side of history this whole time, with his vote in the wrong place."

Pick one.

And in addition, what is "interesting" about my vote placement. That's a non-statement that many a scum member has used to doubtcast players.
Also "25% sure he wasn't bad" doesn't make any sense.

I'm not saying you're trying to make sure you look good, I'm saying you're pre-emptively defending yourself by stating that you aren't 100% sure I'm bad. If I'm lynched you'll fall back on that post as your defense. I think the fact you've avoided voting baddies twice makes you look like you're possibly their teammate. Besides, you can be on the wrong side of history and still be trying to make yourself look good. Nobody is trying to make themselves look bad.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:54 am Finally read the Bullz case cover-to-cover and it looks like a solid piece of work to ya boi.

I also like that its not a full on "Here's how Bullz is bad" thing, and is careful enough to put him at "75%" bad instead.

Given himself a lovely bit of wiggle room there for when I flip civ and he can say "damn, I was 25% sure he wasn't bad". It's interesting to me that Speedchuck's first vote for a baddie was the second Marmot lynch, he didn't vote Luna and voted Simon during the tie.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:21 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:11 pmI've never claimed to be good at this game. I just like it.

For a more serious reply, when you're in btsc you know exactly who your team are and it's easier to feel invested in their success. Maybe that's just me.

No, I do get that. The only reason I even bother to try if scum is because of teammates, and that I have to look them in the virtual eye. But as town you are also on a team, and win as a team. And for me, that feels even better, because you win together in spite of knowing who each other are, and it just feels like a perfect coming together moment. Maybe I'm just romantic about it. Anyway, as I see it, if a town player makes themselves an easy mislynch target or doesn't really play at all, then they aren't really helping their team. I'm not saying this to criticize you though, and obviously you already know this. Being busy happens. And how much you should invest or care is up to oneself, and it's probably healthy not to care all that much (I get burned out because I care A LOT). All this just to say that, if you are town, I for one would really appreciate your perspective on things and what kind of direction you have right now.

I think we clearly enjoy this game in different ways, and that's great in its own way. I've never tried to make myself a target for a lynch but I do wonder if other people are trying to do just that.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:53 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:37 pm

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:25 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:09 pm It doesn't take much imagination for me to paint Bullz and Luna as scumbuddies right now

I forgive you.

This is not a new suspicion.

No but if I'm lynched it'll be interesting for people to go back and review the dynamic between you and TH in light of my having flipped civ.

can you explain this plz? what do you mean by this

They've been quite supportive of each other in coming after me today, that's all.

Kylemii wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:06 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:13 pmSure does. A really good teammate would've also moved their vote to Simon when he was checking the thread from his phone and saw how the lynch was going

this is such a weirdly specific thing to say? what did you actually do during that check in? what kind of reason would you have used to switch your vote to simon?

What I'm saying is I'd have made sure Marmot got saved if I was his teammate. I've mentioned earlier that I did look in on the thread on Sunday night, maybe an hour or two before the lynch ended. I don't know what reason I'd have used, maybe I'd have just said I thought Simon looked more like a baddie than Marmot. I haven't given it any real thought because I didn't actually save anyone that day.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:57 pm If any of the inactive players are scum and is doing background work, that is just fucking boring and I'm not even going to acknowledge it as game play.

Given how extremely inactive some of the players are, I'd be very surprised if their silence was a tactical gameplay decision. I've never known anyone to receive their role PM and decide the best way to win is not to play.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:01 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:37 pmYeah half the time I'm too busy to post and the other half I'm too lazy. I'd care more if I felt like I had teammates I was letting down by not being around but when I'm civ I feel like I'm just invested in my own survival tbh. If I only let myself down, that's fine.

Town wins as a team. This is a team game.

I've never claimed to be good at this game. I just like it.

For a more serious reply, when you're in btsc you know exactly who your team are and it's easier to feel invested in their success. Maybe that's just me.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:59 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:57 pm

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:52 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:13 pmSure does. A really good teammate would've also moved their vote to Simon when he was checking the thread from his phone and saw how the lynch was going

Whaaaat is thiiiis?

The truth.

Why did you not vote either Marmot or Simon?

Neither bandwagon had really gotten moving first thing on Day Four when I had to vote. I didn't think I'd get any time to check the thread at all last weekend and didn't want to not vote at all so I slammed something down straight away and left it at that. I didn't get time to check in at all on the Saturday after I voted because my brother and I were having fun in London. Turns out beer is £6.50 a pint at Wembley arena though so I didn't manage to get that drunk on the Sunday. I didn't get chance to check my phone much other than once on the way back to the hotel fairly late in the day. I was very tired and my main concerns were getting food at a reasonable (i.e. non-arena) price and then going to sleep. I could see that my vote had had no impact at all and didn't feel strongly about either candidate so I left my vote where it was.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:52 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:13 pmSure does. A really good teammate would've also moved their vote to Simon when he was checking the thread from his phone and saw how the lynch was going

Whaaaat is thiiiis?

The truth.

Oh I also had a flawless run in Bioshock as a baddie, but our dear host changed alignment and murdered our entire team in what's still one of my favourite mafia moments of all time.

No worries, I think the final comment in that post may have come off a bit harsher than I meant it but you could totally go read some old games. Off the top of my head my best baddie run on this site is probably in Epi's Shawshank game where I survived to the final three but got owned by Dom who was the SK. Or perhaps LC and BR's Recruitment game for proof of how badly I'll screw myself over trying to defend a teammate.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:02 pm First part is notable now that Luna has flipped scum. Bullzeye was very cautious about commenting on that (LC) case.

Second part is an okay response to an actual problem.

If I seemed cautious about the LC case it's because I was. I thought it was both a great point and obviously wrong at the same time.

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:54 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:19 pm Analysis post part 1:
Bullzeye gives his reason for voting Quin. He dislikes Quin's questions, and even after Quin provides a valid response, Bullzeye responds with basically "I'm going to say your response looks fake because I'm so set on voting for you." Not the best look.

This is such a generic criticism that it could be applied to nearly every vote in nearly every game ever. The majority of votes happen because one person suspects another and that person's responses don't satisfy the accuser. What one person finds valid, another might not. I didn't find his explanation believable.

Distancing? I've seen scummers throw bad suspicions on each other for easy refutation.

This is the first thing that made me want to vote Luna, I just didn't wanna NO U her. Can't exactly prove that now so you'll just have to take my word for it.

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:06 am

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:07 am

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 1:56 am Just checking in before work, love how I’m being set up for an easy bandwagon by a bunch of people who know nothing about me. I also don’t see how it’s okay to point out someone is online and reading the thread when their activity is set to hidden. I often check from my phone and hate posting from it so tend not to, and specifically chose to not show as online so that people couldn’t act like that means anything.

Does not knowing you invalidate the suspicion? I admit I know nothing about you or your play style, but you do come across as suspicious to me. But more than that, I really want more content from you. What do you think of the votes on you? What's your take on Spoons? Who do you want to get lynched? All of it. When you have the time.

Your second post in the game was to vote for me and you seemed pretty confident in it at the time. The only real elaboration you gave is that I "write like scumz write". I don't remember if we've ever played a game together before (don't think so) but if we had you'd probably be able to tell that I just write like me. I don't really like being a civ because when I started playing I was either bad, eventually recruited, or an indy with btsc for my first 10 or so games. I learned to play as a baddie and by the time I got to be town for any significant length of time it was too late for me to learn to be anything but evil. I think like a baddie even when I'm not one. It's helpful in some ways, less so in others. Perhaps that's why you think I write like one but I feel like if you were a bit more familiar with me you'd probably think differently.

I'm not 100% on who Spoons is. I think maybe Sloonei based on context? I'm back and forth on him, I've had some bad vibes and some good ones. Could easily re-read and get a more solid opinion.

Another bit of tone suspicion from Dizzy, and a response.
I feel like there are more posts saying "I could do this later" and "I'll state some suspicions later" than posts with that actual content in them.

Yeah half the time I'm too busy to post and the other half I'm too lazy. I'd care more if I felt like I had teammates I was letting down by not being around but when I'm civ I feel like I'm just invested in my own survival tbh. If I only let myself down, that's fine.

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:30 am

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:24 am

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:04 am I have a few ideas but I’m literally just about to leave for work so don’t have time to go into anything.

Throw some names out as soon as you get the chance. I'm not anywhere close to being set in stone with my reads.

Keep going back and forth on Sloonei, even, and I don't know if it's the emotional/meta card or a genuine tone from him.

I've gone back to Day One and am having a look over the last couple of hours of that lynch to see if anything useful can come out of that ridiculous mess. I had intended to do this yesterday but was too tired. There's a couple of people I feel mildly good about but that could change in an instant, I definitely don't have anyone I strongly believe to be a civ. On the other end of that spectrum most of my thoughts are based on vibes, hence why I'm going back over a few things. I'm willing to share the following thoughts for now, with more detailed opinions coming soon (ish, I don't know how long it will take me to read everything I want to).

I still don't 100% buy Quin's explanation of his recruitment comments and some of his responses to suspicion weren't too convincing but I don't feel strongly enough about that to make it my hill to die on. If something else pops up I'd be willing to come back to him but I'm not going to relentlessly pursue anyone at this point.

I've been having bad vibes from Jack all game but it could just be a tone thing, sometimes his attitude comes off a bit shady.

A quiet DFaraday is never a good thing in my experience so I'd like to see more from him. He's quite good at scheming from the shadows as I remember.

Similarly I feel like we should have heard a lot more from Dom by now. I can't remember if he mentioned being busy or anything though. Not to say I think he's bad because of it, I don't, I just remember him usually being a lot more talkative and was surprised that it's not the case here.

REALLY not much here. Each suspicion is either a metaread on a low-poster or a read that he immediately pulls back and refutes or dismisses himself.

Sure, I guess...

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:39 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:35 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:34 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:32 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:30 pm Wait, why the nova lynch?

OH. Wow, Nova's ISO is pretty empty. It doesn't look to great. I'd rather lynch him than Eloh, who's actually been trying to contribute.

can you elaborate on what you mean by "doesn't look great"?

Like there's nothing there of substance. If he's town, he could be trying harder to help out.

Still reading through Day One, this post from Luna strikes me as odd. Feels like she's saying "If I contribute to the death of a civ with this vote, it's his fault for not trying hard enough". Not wanting to take ownership/be held responsible if she happens to be wrong.

Unsure how much this contributed tothe Luna case. Not a BAD look, per se. Potential bus.

I don't think I contributed to her lynch much at all tbf, I had my reasons for suspecting her but I wasn't exactly the first to cast a vote. Notably, I voted for her when Sloonei was still pretty far ahead.

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:39 pm My internet keeps cutting out so I may end up giving up and going to bed shortly but I think I've gained as much from re-reading the previous lynch as I can. In conclusion, it was a clusterfrick.

Spoiler: show

Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:46 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:39 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:35 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:34 pm

Lunalee wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:32 pm

OH. Wow, Nova's ISO is pretty empty. It doesn't look to great. I'd rather lynch him than Eloh, who's actually been trying to contribute.

can you elaborate on what you mean by "doesn't look great"?

Like there's nothing there of substance. If he's town, he could be trying harder to help out.

Still reading through Day One, this post from Luna strikes me as odd. Feels like she's saying "If I contribute to the death of a civ with this vote, it's his fault for not trying hard enough". Not wanting to take ownership/be held responsible if she happens to be wrong.

By saying "If he's town, he could be trying harder to help out." I meant, "he's not trying, therefore he might be scum"

The implication I'm still picking up is "he's not trying, therefore he might be scum or he might not be and it's nobody's fault but his own if he gets lynched". Right now I'm not strongly opposed to either bandwagon really, Dys asked my opinion on Sloonei earlier and I didn't really have a solid one at the time so I'll go back and have a look over him like I said I would.

And then he shrugs and does some kind of weird waffle dance where he doesn't take it back but he's not pushing it and is okay with either lynch.[/quote][/quote]

The weird waffle dance is my signature move. At the time I was okay with either lynch, but I'm glad I picked the right side.

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:54 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:48 pm Still down for a Nova wagon if there's enough people who would lynch him over Sloonei and/or Luna

Part of me wants to see where Sloonei vs Luna goes but if there's a better option then why not. What makes you want a Nova lynch?

Barf. j/k

I've gone over this in the past few minutes.

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:03 pm If you're bad, you're the king of WIFOM. Honestly I feel worse about Luna's posts where it looked like she was trying to avoid responsibility for her Nova vote so I will [VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine at least for now. If she is lynched today and flips civ, I reserve the right to return to your vineyard.

The post where he picks a scum lynch over a non-scum lynch. Good to reference after the previous posts. It has "honestly" in there, though, so I'm sure he voted for the right reasons.

Honestly is just a word I use a lot. I also have a habit of saying "to be fair" in conversations where there hadn't been a hint of unfairness.

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:25 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:09 pm It doesn't take much imagination for me to paint Bullz and Luna as scumbuddies right now

I forgive you.

This is not a new suspicion.

No but if I'm lynched it'll be interesting for people to go back and review the dynamic between you and TH in light of my having flipped civ.

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:21 pm
That's not what I said at all.

Not exactly. Besides, Sloonei was town. If this is anything bad, it's posturing, not narrative-twisting.

I do love to posture. I also don't like to feel like my words are being twisted.

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:07 am
Can Marmot not be town and Gemini Man?

The main thing I don't understand is why in my catch up people seem to be assuming Gemini Man is definitely a baddie with what appears to be no evidence other than his vote to tie the lynch. I'm not opposed to re-lynching Marmot, especially if I can be presented with a convincing answer to this question.

Soft defense of Marmot.

I like to see all sides of an argument. I wasn't, and am still not, sure why people were/are so convinced Gemini Man is a baddie. I still think my point about the four revealed roles on the opening page carries some weight. Note that no further roles have been revealed and consider this point in a better light after you mislynch me.

speedchuck wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:17 pm
Can Marmot not be town and Gemini Man?

The main thing I don't understand is why in my catch up people seem to be assuming Gemini Man is definitely a baddie with what appears to be no evidence other than his vote to tie the lynch. I'm not opposed to re-lynching Marmot, especially if I can be presented with a convincing answer to this question.

NOW he votes for Marmot, once he's been engaged on proving his reasons.

Would it have looked better if I'd just jumped on the bandwagon without question?

speedchuck wrote:"I didn't vote Simon, and I totally would have if I was scum, yep."

I would have. You don't have to believe me, but I'd definitely have done it.

speedchuck wrote:Overall, we have few firm stances from Bullzeye, and a lot of soft defenses of scum. He promises a lot of 'later' stuff and rarely delivers.
He's made a post about how he's 'always careful' but I know he's capable of being fiery, as his most recent couple of posts have demonstrated. It's like most of his focus in the thread is on 4 things:
1. Explaining the way he plays
2. Promising to do stuff later because he's busy
3. Providing devil's advocate defenses for scum, or weak accusations toward them. Giving them avenues to look good or escape suspicion.
4. Looking good on the scum lynches when they become inevitable, or when he's asked about a suspicion he agrees with. Bullzeye shows his train of thought more clearly when voting for scum than anywhere else in the thread.

I'd put him at 75% scum. It's not totally damning, especially without a meta to validate with other than what he's given us. But I'll leave my vote and see what others find.

1. People have asked me to explain the way I play (or similar questions) a few times.
2. I'm busy. Last weekend I was away on a trip I'd had planned for a year. This weekend I'm not.
3. I like to play devil's advocate. I tend to keep my cards close to my chest.
4. Yeah okay fair enough.

If you really wanted my meta you could go read previous games I've played. I have 3,000 posts on this site and come from the same mafia community as people like DH and LC, it's not like I'm completely new to the site. Several people in this game have played with me a lot. Ask their opinions on my meta. Perhaps they'll have some? I genuinely don't know but it seems like a reasonable thing to do.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:37 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:30 pm I'm very interested to hear more about how I'm suddenly such a baddie.

I’m interested in you being interested in other things.

Same.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:50 pm Yeah but Simon was lynched over Marmot despite the tie, we don't know the behind the scenes thought process that went into that move but it would seem like they knew they had enough votes.

What makes you think that?

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:00 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:55 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:50 pmYes

I felt like your comment about Nova was an attempt to repeat the chaos of Day 1's ending and try to get heat off either Luna, Sloonei, or both (definitely Luna in hindsight) with a cfd onto someone you saw as an easy target. That's why I replied to it at all.

So you baited a baiter. You are the master baiter.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:50 pmYes

I felt like your comment about Nova was an attempt to repeat the chaos of Day 1's ending and try to get heat off either Luna, Sloonei, or both (definitely Luna in hindsight) with a cfd onto someone you saw as an easy target. That's why I replied to it at all.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:41 pm @speedchuck You were right to barf when Bullzeye feigned interest in a Nova wagon. That was the first post that made me think he and Luna were connected. Case looks thorough, I hope it gets the clicks.

Would you be interested to hear that I was feigning interest because I thought you might be trying to defend a teammate and was trying to see how far you'd go?

Yawn. Too obvious. If I was on a team with Luna and Marmot then I'd have voted Sloonei during Luna's lynch and would've come up with an excuse to vote for Simon during the tied lynch.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:37 pm

speedchuck wrote: ↑Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:24 am

Spoiler: show

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:17 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:17 am

Infected_alien8_ wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:15 am Very initial first impression of the thread: Jay feels off, don't know why though

Probably trying to avoid the obvious conclusion that he was recruited.

Why is it obvious Jay would be recruited? The sign-up thread mentions that the baddies recruit roles, not players.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:47 am How many bad robots do we think there are?

Somewhere between 1 and 24.

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:50 am

JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:17 pm It was a nice quiet Day 0. Nothing happened.

Jay said this, which can mean one of two things:
Something happened to him on Day 0
OR
Nothing happened to him on Day 0.

OR
Something happened to someone else on Day 0.

I wish something had happened to me on Day 0...

speedchuck wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:30 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:47 am How many bad robots do we think there are?

Good way of look at whether people read the rules or not.

This isn't a closed setup, dude. It's an open setup with most details hidden.

I was beginning to think I was the only person who had done this!

The above are some quotes and replies from a single Bullzeye post. I cut some irrelevant stuff out.

"I read the rules!"
"I dunno how many bad bots there are." (Maybe being cheeky, idk)
"Gee, pity I'm not mafia..."
"Guys I totally read the rules!"

I'm getting two pings from this post. Forced ignorance and a... I don't even know what to call that middle thing. Tonally fake role regret?

Bringing up this dinosaur of a post before we get into more recent BLZ-I stuff.

This is a super old one.

Someone already cleared up the fact I was misunderstanding what Jack was saying about JJJ. The comment about the number of baddies was an obvious joke. Please provide more recent and relevant material for me to discredit.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:35 pm But sure, I can do case stuff

Please do. That way rather than just telling you you're wrong I can point to specific examples of wrongness.

I'm very interested to hear more about how I'm suddenly such a baddie.

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:07 pm Bullzeye voted for Sloonei during the Simon vs Marmot tie. Feels like a move a teammate might make.

Sure does. A really good teammate would've also moved their vote to Simon when he was checking the thread from his phone and saw how the lynch was going

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:12 pm

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:41 pm Oh only four lynches. Oh ok.

If DH has any teammates in BTSC, they aren't helping him to catch up. The case against marmot, the use of their power to skip a day, etc. DH has been relying on us. Three possibilities.
1. He has no teammates.
2. He has no ACTIVE teammates.
3. They're being smart about trying to get us to believe 1 or 2. Which... meh.

The thing is, if DH was bad and the other baddies were all active players, he'd be stupid to come into the thread and say "hey what's up guys I don't need to catch up at all my team have filled me in".

Has anyone else noticed that out of the four robot master roles to have been revealed in the opening post, two are now confirmed baddies? Wondering if the other two are also bad tbh...

Quin wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:39 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:17 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:05 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:57 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:17 am If Marmot is town, Gemini Man is scum and almost certain Speedchuck.

If Marmot is scum and not Gemini Man, same conclusion.

Can Marmot not be town and Gemini Man?

The main thing I don't understand is why in my catch up people seem to be assuming Gemini Man is definitely a baddie with what appears to be no evidence other than his vote to tie the lynch. I'm not opposed to re-lynching Marmot, especially if I can be presented with a convincing answer to this question.

If that’s the case, why didn’t he defend himself then or in the next day?

To what end does townie Marmot throw someone else under the bus only to let himself be mislynched the next day? (Same question if Marmot isn’t GM I suppose.)

Gemini Man (and Speedchuck and LC) caused us to waste a day lynching Simon when the consensus was that Marmot should be lynched. Simon was town. None of those players gave a good reason for lynching Simon over Marmot yet here we are. Ergo, Gemini Man looks shady af.

He seems to be claiming he was silenced and broke the rules of it by posting. Not sure if I buy it. As to why he hasn't defended himself since:

If I had the ability to apply an extra vote to someone, you can 100% guarantee I'd use it defensively regardless of my alignment. I guess that's why I can see a civ GM voting to tie up a lynch to protect himself. I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate with this though, my questioning here is more with regard to Gemini Man specifically.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:07 pm To me the smartest and most damning thing about Marmot is "Why bother tacking onto the Luna vote unless it's for cred"

Okay this is a solid point.

Can you pull where he said this? It's very important.

I suppose he never explicitly said as much, just said a few times that he wasn't supposed to post at all during day 4. If it were true he'd likely have been visibly punished, so...

[VOTE: Marmot] aubergine

Quin wrote: ↑Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:23 am Bullzeye - I know next to nothing about his playstyle. Bullzeye, can you talk about it a little bit? With differences between your town and scum games? At the moment, I don't have any reason to rule him out. Being a returning player, maybe he'd be more likely to take a backseat in BTSC.

I don't really know how to explain how I play. I think we have played a few games together before but obviously it was ages ago. I'm usually fairly quiet regardless of alignment and tend to get more talkative as games go on. I don't really have a civ meta that I'm aware of, there's probably things other people could pick up on but nothing that I can remember being pointed out to me.

When I'm bad I'm usually very active in btsc and really engaged with planning, if I were bad here I probably wouldn't take a backseat. I find scheming and strategising as a baddie to be the most fun part of the game. That said, as a baddie I do go with the flow a bit. If my team have an idea I don't really see the value of but everyone else wants to do it, I'll generally go along with it because I like everyone to be happy. I can get a bit too defensive when bad and will avoid voting teammates as much as I possibly can.

As far as killing the thread leaders, it'd be something I'd consider but I wouldn't want to kill all of them one by one. JJJ and Mac would've been high on my list of potential threats for instance, but I'd be inclined to let them live as long as they weren't actively causing too much trouble. I'd have wanted to kill a no-show or low poster on Night 1, that's a favourite of mine just because it sucks to be killed off first so I'd prefer the disappointment go to someone who wasn't very engaged anyway. I would've argued strongly against killing a high poster on Night 1 for that reason unless there was a clear tactical advantage beyond "he's good at the game".

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:05 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:57 pm

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:17 am If Marmot is town, Gemini Man is scum and almost certain Speedchuck.

If Marmot is scum and not Gemini Man, same conclusion.

Can Marmot not be town and Gemini Man?

The main thing I don't understand is why in my catch up people seem to be assuming Gemini Man is definitely a baddie with what appears to be no evidence other than his vote to tie the lynch. I'm not opposed to re-lynching Marmot, especially if I can be presented with a convincing answer to this question.

If that’s the case, why didn’t he defend himself then or in the next day?

To what end does townie Marmot throw someone else under the bus only to let himself be mislynched the next day? (Same question if Marmot isn’t GM I suppose.)

Gemini Man (and Speedchuck and LC) caused us to waste a day lynching Simon when the consensus was that Marmot should be lynched. Simon was town. None of those players gave a good reason for lynching Simon over Marmot yet here we are. Ergo, Gemini Man looks shady af.

He seems to be claiming he was silenced and broke the rules of it by posting. Not sure if I buy it. As to why he hasn't defended himself since:

If I had the ability to apply an extra vote to someone, you can 100% guarantee I'd use it defensively regardless of my alignment. I guess that's why I can see a civ GM voting to tie up a lynch to protect himself. I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate with this though, my questioning here is more with regard to Gemini Man specifically.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:07 pm To me the smartest and most damning thing about Marmot is "Why bother tacking onto the Luna vote unless it's for cred"

Okay this is a solid point.

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:51 am

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:48 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:41 am

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:40 am Step 1 - Night Kill the fuck out of inactive players
Step 2 - Lynch whoever the fuck we want based on whatever the fuck we want because the players we don't Nightkill will be like "yeah that is in the thread therefore it makes sense to do that"

Active players, that should say on #1

You aren’t supposed to post this to the thread.

GET IN CHAT BEFORE REY BLOCKS MP AND OUR KILL

A joke that no one here will get but that makes me incredibly happy every time

I got the joke! I didn't play that game but someone told me about it shortly after it had happened so I ended up reading the whole thing.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:17 am If Marmot is town, Gemini Man is scum and almost certain Speedchuck.

If Marmot is scum and not Gemini Man, same conclusion.

Can Marmot not be town and Gemini Man?

The main thing I don't understand is why in my catch up people seem to be assuming Gemini Man is definitely a baddie with what appears to be no evidence other than his vote to tie the lynch. I'm not opposed to re-lynching Marmot, especially if I can be presented with a convincing answer to this question.

I got home a lot later than anticipated yesterday because my brother and I decided to explore London for a few hours rather than immediately jump on the first train home. By the time I got in I was knackered and basically went straight to sleep. I've read bits over the weekend but not much and what I did read, I didn't always have context for. Going to catch up now from my last post and see where things stand currently.

Also I'm leaving now. You might not see me again until Night 4. Have fun!

I'm going to throw my placeholder vote down on Sloonei because I'm still not convinced either way on him. A lot of his defence yesterday really boiled down to WIFOM. I'm going to make notes on my phone to check in tonight and tomorrow morning as well as maybe after the show, so if anything interesting happens I can change my mind. I mostly just want to not miss the vote at all.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

sprityo wrote: ↑Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:37 am long Con, do you have anything else to add or is this it?

I feel like the same could be asked of your response to his comments. Looking at the poll results so far it seems LC forgot to actually cast a vote, but your reply kinda makes me want to fix that issue for him.

Kyle's fanfic is the greatest and I cannot wait to read more. I'm particularly happy with the title "Every DFaradog has his DFaraday". I will need to throw down a vote that's at least a placeholder within the next half hour or so, as I mentioned yesterday I'm going to be away all weekend. Going to Wembley with my brother to watch a big wrestling show, and there's a lot of other things going on around it. If I remember that the game exists while I'm out having fun, I'll probably try to check in but whether I post at all or not really depends on how sober I get.

K-Ness wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:46 pm
Bullzeye's remark about someone being absent Day 2 was odd considering there wasn't a Day 2. But the overall feel from his ISO leaves me leaning town on him.

I feel like it's incredibly obvious that that comment was a joke...

I should probably mention I'm away this weekend and probably won't be around at all. I'll try to vote from my phone first thing but I'm unlikely to have chance to get involved at all through Day 4, if I do it will be very brief and I'll probably be quite drunk. Should be back on Monday evening assuming I'm still alive.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:43 am

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:03 pm

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:56 pm I've been afraid to bring this into the fold because for those who are already on my case it's just an added layer of WIFOM and a chance to say "of course you'd update your strategy in this game", but here is my post history from Ancient Greece Mafia. The dynamic between Mac and I was very similar to how it is here, with the main difference being my alignment. Mac hounded me from Day 1 and was killed on Night 2. The differences are that I engaged more heavily with Mac while he was alive, and then after his death I acted like no player named Macdougall had ever existed. I wanted to get as far away from that heat as possible.

For those who will say I am making a conscious effort to play differently here than I did there: I did not remember what my methods were in that game off the top of my head. I had to go back and look just now to see how I behaved. My fingers were crossed that it would be different than what I've done here.

I offer this for the people who are still on the fence about me. I know all of this can't be taken definitively, but I at least want to provide a sample of my past behavior in a situation remarkably similar to the one we're currently in.

It's also my most recent and most significant scum performance on the Syndicate, if anyone's into cross-game comparisons. I can provide a recent town game as well for any of the folks who aren't already super familiar with my meta.

If you're bad, you're the king of WIFOM. Honestly I feel worse about Luna's posts where it looked like she was trying to avoid responsibility for her Nova vote so I will [VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine at least for now. If she is lynched today and flips civ, I reserve the right to return to your vineyard.

What an odd ifthen statement. Guess now that Luna has flipped scum, no need to look at Sloonei anymore, right?

That's not what I said at all.

sprityo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:29 am

Sloonei wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:59 pm

sprityo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:54 pm Tell you this. I’ll stop harassing Sloonei for tonight and we can talk someone else. I definitely think Sloonei is full omgus mode for suspecting speed and I

Hey now, I was proud of myself for working to a point where I suspected you without relying on self-defense.
Also my speedchuck decision is based much more on his relationship with Luna. In-game, I mean. Out of game they’re an admirable pair by all accounts.

What immediate thoughts do you have in the aftermath of this lynch?

I touched on this but we should get marmot talking more and dig into bullseye over his vote change.

Don’t know exactly what you mean here, I didn’t change my vote. Luna was the only person I voted for yesterday. I can totally see why people might think we were distancing but my only defense at this time is to say I don’t like to bus teammates, especially not this early and especially not when they could easily be saved.

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:48 pm

Bullzeye wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:06 amYour second post in the game was to vote for me and you seemed pretty confident in it at the time. The only real elaboration you gave is that I "write like scumz write". I don't remember if we've ever played a game together before (don't think so) but if we had you'd probably be able to tell that I just write like me. I don't really like being a civ because when I started playing I was either bad, eventually recruited, or an indy with btsc for my first 10 or so games. I learned to play as a baddie and by the time I got to be town for any significant length of time it was too late for me to learn to be anything but evil. I think like a baddie even when I'm not one. It's helpful in some ways, less so in others. Perhaps that's why you think I write like one but I feel like if you were a bit more familiar with me you'd probably think differently.

I'm not 100% on who Spoons is. I think maybe Sloonei based on context? I'm back and forth on him, I've had some bad vibes and some good ones. Could easily re-read and get a more solid opinion.

Most of all I wanted to put some pressure on you, cause that is where I would've started if I was playing D1. And yeah, I don't know you or your style, and I pointed that out to. I would like to though. You seem a bit careful in your approach, and I haven't seen you stick your neck out too much or come with strong accusations. Does that make sense? In my experience, a lot of the time there will be scum among semi-active players not really pushing much, having organized toughts, but seeming a bit detached. So that was what I saw. I was never sure, of course, and absolutely am not still.

This is fair enough.

I'm always careful, and especially early on you won't see me jumping out at anything in particular. I take a while to build myself into games and it can vary depending on any number of factors, there's never any one reason for why it took me more or less time in X game to start being active.

Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:57 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:55 pm

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:47 pm

Kylemii wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:45 pm is there a place where the points against lunalee are at in a convenient package that would be easy to view while i'm playing video games

You could stop playing Zelda and play mafia for a bit :O

im playing pokemon

Im about to face 3rd Giovanni in FR for my first Nuzzlocke challenge.

Nuzlocke runs are my favourite thing. I started one in Black recently but level grinding in Gen 5 is such a drag it's hard to stay invested.

Marmot wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:29 pm

Turnip Head wrote: ↑Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:09 pm It doesn't take much imagination for me to paint Bullz and Luna as scumbuddies right now

Unfortunately, paint is not an effective scumhunting tool. You make a big mess, and never get the color you want.

Have you tried ISO-propane?

In all honesty I'd rather not be painted at all. I have work in the morning and a busy weekend planned, it would be really awkward if I had to sit in Wembley arena painted as scum... People would ask questions I couldn't answer.