The Syndicate

Hedgeowl wrote: Ugh, really, the last voter for you? I based my whole strategy that day on the fact that the number picked would most likely be lower than 7 or 8, so felt safe voting once we had 9 voters. This also means that the dead and non-player votes didn't matter. Kinda feels like a random kill now. Why not just write in secrets for the day or tell civs that the role was not the one shown?

Epi- were the baddie allowed the NK in the game to balance things out? or due to coins?

It only happened because Epi made a mistake and felt bad about it, thinking it might have affected our decision, so he allowed us to change our minds and we were awkward about it.

Hedgeowl wrote: I was pretty convinced Rox was civ after the MP lynch and so many had voted for her. Once Russ started the Rox, SVS, and Lt baddie train, that made me think more and more that maybe LT really was the other baddie. After MP flipped bad only way I thought SVS was bad, was if she and MP had manufactured that long back and forth in the very beginning, but SVS seemed pretty sincere, in her "WTH are you talking about?" responses to MP.

I think you're right Bullz, this game was actually much closer than we realized. The last night kill surprised me. How did that happen btw? Also, it seems a risky move to have picked 10 as the voting number. There were only 11 voters total that day. Why not go for something safer and more guaranteed like 6 or 7?

Yes, I meant letter Rob! Water?? Hilarious we avoided it the whole game.

Snow, I will try not to ruin your next game through my mistakes.

You died because we wanted to change my role to a Bob-Omb and Epi met us halfway by saying whoever voted me last would die. He allowed this because he'd forgot to tell us about some coins we'd won or something. BWT's night kill happened because LT was told to send in the names of whoever she wanted dead. Like a good baddie she sent in everyone's but Epi told her to narrow it down so BWT got the chop. I'm surprised people carried on being suspicious of Roxy, I thought it was reasonably easy to figure out she was the air king because nobody was coming off the polls but the Air King hadn't been lynched. To be fair though, I only realised this because I was deliberately trying to work out who everyone left might be so if people hadn't thought hard enough about it I can see why they'd miss the clues.

Elohcin wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:
You're welcome, we all really enjoyed it. I honestly think most of our failures had nothing to do with you or the way you set up the game. Our first big loss was MP being frozen and then lynched while a bullet bill. If neither of those things had happened we'd have been far better off. Then there was the tied lynch between BWT and myself. If it weren't for that then we'd have won in water world I think (based on presumable numbers) or at least won shortly after. I personally remained optimistic about our chances up until the tied lynch and regularly pointed out ways we could still win. Honestly we could've even had the game right at the end if Elo hadn't come back and SVS had trusted LT.

From the beginning, I thought that among the baddies were Roxy, Rusti, and LT. So, if the game had played out differently, I could have been convinced that Roxy was the last baddie, but LT was already under so much suspicion.

If only things had been different! It wasn't you specifically coming back that got us though but the fact that a civ came back at all. My last minute hope was that if it remained 4 players SVS and LT would both vote Mongoose. Then LT would hopefully be able to NK SVS but if not it would just force a stalemate as Roxy wasn't around. Too many civs spoil the baddie broth

Epignosis wrote:I agree with you regarding the discussion of items and such. When I allowed it, I figured bad guys would lie about items to look civ. I was surprised that there wasn't a push to persuade the civs that in Water Land one of you spent all his coins on fire flowers, or LT to say that she spent coins on mushrooms, etc. The reason I didn't permit the purchasing of items for bad guys was some criticism I got from other players regarding MOTU: That civs should generally control the lynch. Surprisingly, very few people bought flowers or mushrooms.

Hmm, I don't necessarily agree with your past critics there. The lynch should belong to the strongest players IMO, whether bad or good whoever is doing the best should be in command. This is of course completely subjective. If we'd been allowed to buy items we probably wouldn't have bought many anyway tbh, just the odd mushroom every now and then. We'd have saved most of our cash for roles like sensible baddies. I think if a baddie team wants to waste all their money on things that will only help a little then that's their mistake to make. I am actually surprised we didn't lie about items at all pretty much, except for one time I mentioned having bought a mushroom which clearly wasn't true.

I want to thank everyone who played, especially the LT, Bullz, MP and Russ, for playing out an unusual and perhaps frustrating experience. I really thought you were going to pull it off.

You're welcome, we all really enjoyed it. I honestly think most of our failures had nothing to do with you or the way you set up the game. Our first big loss was MP being frozen and then lynched while a bullet bill. If neither of those things had happened we'd have been far better off. Then there was the tied lynch between BWT and myself. If it weren't for that then we'd have won in water world I think (based on presumable numbers) or at least won shortly after. I personally remained optimistic about our chances up until the tied lynch and regularly pointed out ways we could still win. Honestly we could've even had the game right at the end if Elo hadn't come back and SVS had trusted LT.

Couldn't you have carried on trying to earn coins though? If you'd done a few of the Sub-Cons and mini-games you'd probably have got enough quickly.

Snow Dog wrote:When Boo was around no one made sure that most people got at least one vote. Due to this oversight Boo stole all my coins, about 80 I think. I was then out of the game forever. Thanks guys. I saw it coming and obviously you didn't.

It was around 60 IIRC, but if it makes you feel any better that's about the only time our plans actually worked and even then it almost didn't. Russti was Boo that day, and Hedge said in the thread she was voting for him but apparently didn't in the poll so we still got to rob someone. We chose you because you'd won that vote contest thing so probably had the most out of anyone but us. Most of our plans got screwed up by those meddling civs.

Roles haven't been revealed yet so I want to make a couple of guesses...

Mongoose - Grass King
SVS - Pipe King? (based on day zero stuff)
Roxy - Air King

Hedge - I knew our killing Nev had outed me to you, but I was hoping you'd think it was just a coincidence

Mongoose wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:By the way, something I noticed a long time ago but didn't bring up for obvious reasons is that there were four confirmed civs for most of the game. When Snow got lynched instead of Lizzy despite having way less votes all the baddies were goombas (except Bowser obv.) which meant that everyone who voted for Snow had a vote that counted. Llama was giant king so his counted for 4 but his fellow voters were all civs and if I'd been a civ myself I'd have mentioned that.

I think Vomp was trying to insinuate this, but I think we were all very wary of too much role hinting after admonishments in other games. That's a really good observation, Bullz.

We figured Llama out in our btsc and his role was revealed to us when we got him lynched. Basically Birdo allowed us to switch a lynch and be the only people who would find out the lynchee's role, but we weren't allowed to vote that day.

Linki: Epi, by the time we got to Water World we already expected not to win because of the big group of civs who trusted each other too much for our liking.

By the way, something I noticed a long time ago but didn't bring up for obvious reasons is that there were four confirmed civs for most of the game. When Snow got lynched instead of Lizzy despite having way less votes all the baddies were goombas (except Bowser obv.) which meant that everyone who voted for Snow had a vote that counted. Llama was giant king so his counted for 4 but his fellow voters were all civs and if I'd been a civ myself I'd have mentioned that.

Epignosis wrote:Bullzeye has been lynched. He was the Piranha Plant. And he had a feathery last meal: Hedgeowl

No, you're a pirahna plant! Good game guys!

S~V~S wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:So ends my speed game winning streak

I'm not actually that bothered given how much ass I've been kicking in recent games, but it's kinda lame I went from having won like 5/5 to dying in 3 in a row. Just the way it is I suppose.

So ends my speed game winning streak

birdwithteeth11 wrote:Tbh I'm starting to believe LT less and less.

But today is about getting rid of Bullz.

Votes Bullz

Or you could get rid of an actual baddie like I'm gonna try to do.

*Votes Mongoose*

Hedgeowl wrote: I am the most obvious civ in this game.

Most modest one as well!

Mongoose wrote:I voted Bullz. I don't see how he can flip Civ after that weird Vomp vote. It's pretty obvious Bullz is trying to see how many of you he can get to vote for me, a civ, when we've had such a good track record of discovering baddies lately. Baddies had to show their hand when they voted for Vomps. Vomps was one of the few people who trusted I was CIv -- if I was a real baddie, why would I let him be lynched over someone who is on the fence at me?

I'm not sure LT's vote for me was totally throwaway. She's come after me pretty hard lately, so I'm guessing she thought she could convince a few of you to vote for her. I don't think she was a goomba that day. If she geared up with some fire flowers, was Bowser, and convinced a civ or two to follow her lead, I could have been dead.

We're already a civ man down with Roxy not voting and not being replaced, so honestly, you need me on the civ team. We're so close, let's stay the course.

* Votes Bullz*

I will be flipping civ if I get lynched so... There's that. I thought Vomp was bad and his vote that day was kinda hypocritical, going after someone who'd possibly been silenced after telling me off for wanting to do the same. You've spent a fair bit of this game buddying up to trusted players and I'm quite sure you're not a civ and we need you lynched tbh.

I'm pretty much after Mongoose today. Maybe I'm wrong about Hedge but with the way people are buddying up to her and following what she says I'm not sure. Vomp died because of Russ having those extra votes, and my guess is that whoever had the other water role was turned to a goomba. I haven't personally suspected LT that much this game but I'm up for lynching her next if it gets us the win.

Interesting that Russ already has two votes and there are two goomba baddies today. I'm guessing one of those votes doesn't count and the other is just for the sake of distancing, right? Well I'm gonna add to his real vote count now... *Votes Russti*

It's not a Gambit, just my best guess.

Yeah, I bet you can

Hedgeowl wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:Looks like I was wrong about Vomp. I guess that means Russ is the third baddie and not him.

Oh come on. It's obvious a water role voted for Vomp and it wasn't me so it must have been him. I'd guess you were the other but the Grass King targeted you and made your power pointless, which would make Mongoose Bowser. I can't see any other explanation for what happened.

Looks like I was wrong about Vomp. I guess that means Russ is the third baddie and not him.

Mongoose wrote:I am really confused by a Vomp vote. I was not expecting that. Are there other reasons besides what you've written above that are making you vote for him today?

Well out of you and your teammates he was the first I thought might be bad. Really I might have voted for any of you though.

Hedgeowl wrote:Well Vomps, it looks like you are the target today. Sorry if we lose you like this. My vote has been taken away, so I am no help. Mongoose, I can think of a really good reason they would vote Vomps.

The only way we can possibly save you is if SVS votes LT too, everyone buys a fireflower and Vomps buys a mushroom. Then the vote may be tied, but we dont know what king powers, etc are in play for others. If LT is bad and the cheep cheep role, then she already -2 votes and it wont help.

Might be worth a shot, but we still might be able to pull this off in the next lynch if all four civs alive vote the same.

As if LT won't die today I bet she's already got more votes than there are civvies left alive. I take it you got goomba'd Hedge? Looks like at least one other person knows what's up.

Vompatti wrote:ture

I guess this confirms that Bullz and Russ are bad.

Come on, you guys can pretty much drop the act now I think. You've all been leading the thread for a while now, buddying up to each other and following each other's 'suspicions'. You've pretty much won the game anyway and you did a good job of it but I'm not going to give up so easily. Hopefully I'm not the only one to have noticed the little group of Hedge-Mongoose-Vomp who've clearly been running this game for days and leading people to lynch a bunch of civvies. Honestly though, I wasn't expecting Russ to follow me. Maybe I'm wrong about one of you and he's your well-distanced teammate.

Mongoose wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:It's interesting how willing you all seem to be to jump onto a blatant bandwagon without even giving someone a chance to defend themselves. I just thought it'd be me today.

Well in fairness, we did give her a chance to defend herself. It's not like we all voted out of nowhere, we started discussing this over 24 hours ago for goodness sake. She did defend herself and I've taken that into account.

Yeah... I'm just not liking where this looks like it's going. I think this game is being lead by the wrong people and I fully expect LT to be lynched today and turn out civ tbh. My vote won't change that but it's going to Vomp because he was so willing to call for my head after I wanted to vote BWT while he wasn't around but seems to be doing the same thing to LT here.

It's interesting how willing you all seem to be to jump onto a blatant bandwagon without even giving someone a chance to defend themselves. I just thought it'd be me today.

Why is MP on the poll when he's dead?

I dunno what to tell you, I'm no expert. It's fine for me though, and I'm using Google Chrome (obviously) if that helps.

Epignosis wrote:I'm not posting unless this gets sorted. I cannot make heads or tails of anything.

Have you tried turning your computer off and on again?

But seriously everything seems fine for me so it's probably something on your end rather than the site's.

Just in case I do get frozen and bandwagoned tomorrow, which I think is possible (at least the frozen part), I wanna quickly say it's weird how trusting people seem to be of each other when there's little in the way of solid proof. If I do die tomorrow I hope you'll all reevaluate your positions on each other because something is definitely going on here and I'm not sure what it is but I don't like the look of it.

Hedgeowl wrote: I can completely understand your frustration Russti. I am befuddled and frustrated myself this game. I understand that no one can defend against the fact that they voted for roxy. Its a tricky position to be put in. The reason I suspect there are two baddies amongst the 4 is I bought a fire flower. So the vote had to be 2 for roxy and was 3 for mp. Ties as we saw lead to no lynch. Therefore I assume there were two no votes.

I also dont know who to trust and as you pointed out when SVS and LT basically throwaway their votes when they could have helped if they were civ, it makes my head spin more. Plus, with votes missing every lynch its hard to know if there are even enough civs left to win if we spread it out.

You and mongoose are frustrated, not being able to prove you are civ, bullz is coming across as personally offended that he is suspected. Among the 9 players , 3 are bad. I am pretty confident of Vomps, roxy, and me. So that leaves 6 with 3 civs. Maybe you, mongoose, and Bullz are all civ, I really dont know at this point. I have a reason to suspect you and/or Bullz, but I might be wrong and the timing was pure coincidence.

I'm not 'offended' that I'm being suspected. I'm annoyed because there's barely a case on me yet people seem convinced I'm bad and whenever I say anything in response I either get ignored completely or basically told it doesn't matter what I say.

Side note, I bet I get frozen tonight and bandwagoned tomorrow. Just got the feeling that's what will happen.

Hedgeowl wrote:

Mongoose wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:I wonder who will be the first to 'misunderstand' the Pirahna Plant's description and find a way to blame Lizzy's death on me. Or maybe it's still my fault just for being so damn suspicious all the time?

you didn't die. It was a tie. Turn that frown upside down Mr. Sulky.

Lizzy. Really sorry we lost you this way!

Which means they took someone elses vote and that surprised me. Maybe they took bwt's vote, so he coudlnt protect himself. I have no idea right now, but I know I suspect LT now more. I think part of the problem is that the civs there are dont agree. Definitely would like to hear from bwt now!

I'm not sure I follow you, Hedgie -- what was the criterion that had to happen in order for no one to be killed tonight (aside from poor Lizzy). Who could have taken BWT's vote (other than the Ice King freezing him)?

Might not have been very clear about that. That was the power of one of the baddie roles today yes? To make one of our votes useless. I assumed it would be me or lizzy cause we lynched mp, but it wasnt because there was a tie. So that made me wonder if the plan was to vote for bwt, then maybe his vote was taken. This is wild speculation, but just thinking out loud.

Also, mongoose, I dont if we will fair too well in this game, but good luck to all!

Wouldn't they be doing that tonight? MP had the bullet roll but didn't kill anyone, he'd presumably have done that if he wasn't lynched so I assume whoever has the vote cancel role does that tonight and it takes effect tomorrow.

Epignosis wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:Can I send in a bunch of joke answers as well as my real guesses?

You'd lose, but you are free to make me happier.

What if I were to post the joke answers here? That wouldn't technically be a submission would it?

Can I send in a bunch of joke answers as well as my real guesses?

I wonder who will be the first to 'misunderstand' the Pirahna Plant's description and find a way to blame Lizzy's death on me. Or maybe it's still my fault just for being so damn suspicious all the time?

Hedgeowl wrote:

S~V~S wrote:

LittleTiger wrote:I am sticking with my case against Mongoose. I really think she has to be one of the baddies.

*vote mongoose*

Rather than making a vote that actually counts? I fear that we are lynching a civ today, and I have been defending you, but this vote makes me think I may have been mistaken

I agree, but i havent voted yet for this reason. I am going to vote bullz. I apologize if you are civ bullz.

*votes bullz*

I'm beginning to wonder if there was some big "civ" btsc group I wasn't invited to or something. People seem so sure I'm bad for no real reasons, and seem to be buddying up to each other as well. Again, with no real reasons.

Also I think you were implying BWT is the air king because he might be frozen and there's no one removed from the poll. I'm pretty sure the ice kings power would be effective for the night after he targets someone, hence why it says a day and a night rather than a night and a day. They're frozen for the day first. So the air king might not have been frozen last night.

Vompatti wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:I guess I have to vote BWT in order to save myself? I do think he's possibly bad anyway, he's been quite blendy all game.

I'm sorry but this cracks me up.

I had to vote. I voted the person I'm tied with because one of his voters could've been turned to a goomba by the grass king so their vote might not even count and I'd end up being lynched. I'm not a baddie and there hasn't been a decent case made against me yet, just Hedge bringing up a few points, some of which were good, and you hounding me all day for vague reasons to do with the fact you think BWT is frozen. Even if he was, presumably he was frozen because the ice king thought he was bad. I'm not gonna let myself die in place of someone I think is a baddie.

I guess I have to vote BWT in order to save myself? I do think he's possibly bad anyway, he's been quite blendy all game.

Hedgeowl wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Hedgeowl wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Vompatti wrote:I'm sorry if I'm wrong about this, but I'm also voting *Bullz*.

You haven't even said much against me other than going after me for saying I might vote BWT. Which I haven't even done yet.

Of course, if the vote keeps going this way, they're going to force you to vote bwt to protect yourself. I hadn't been leaning towards bwt of the 4 roxy voters, so am at loss, but Bullz was and still is my first suspect behind the roxy voters. Tricky business this.

I also think it likely that Lizzy or my vote will not count today sadly. Considering the previous lynch vote was 9 people total I don't think the number picked will be higher than that for the possible voter killed. Granted I am going to hold my vote a bit longer, but mostly likely the person has already voted in the order chosen.

I will obviously vote to save myself if I have to but I'd rather vote for someone I feel more strongly about. I'm not afraid of dying for my vote either, if I end up as the number the baddies picked so be it.

I think you need this for your "I'm not afraid of dying for my vote" statement. Sounds more heroic that way.

Interesting thoughts from LT. Doesnt make me suspect you less. In fact everyone is doing a great job between lt, russti and, mongoose of not looking any less suspicious. am lazy this afternoon, but I wrote stuff about Bullz earlier if you want to look it up for why we are looking at him. I will say this right now, if mongoose, russti, and lt vote for bwt, you can be sure I am not voting for him. With two possible baddies amongst the four its a huge red flag. If we are wrong about bullz, then heck it could be all 3 of them!

Linki- well LT it's your move now. Are you voting for bwt too?

I should add, I'm only not afraid to die if I help us get a baddie. If I vote for a civvie and die because of my number then I'll be rather unamused.

Hedgeowl wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Vompatti wrote:I'm sorry if I'm wrong about this, but I'm also voting *Bullz*.

You haven't even said much against me other than going after me for saying I might vote BWT. Which I haven't even done yet.

Of course, if the vote keeps going this way, they're going to force you to vote bwt to protect yourself. I hadn't been leaning towards bwt of the 4 roxy voters, so am at loss, but Bullz was and still is my first suspect behind the roxy voters. Tricky business this.

I also think it likely that Lizzy or my vote will not count today sadly. Considering the previous lynch vote was 9 people total I don't think the number picked will be higher than that for the possible voter killed. Granted I am going to hold my vote a bit longer, but mostly likely the person has already voted in the order chosen.

I will obviously vote to save myself if I have to but I'd rather vote for someone I feel more strongly about. I'm not afraid of dying for my vote either, if I end up as the number the baddies picked so be it.

Vompatti wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Vompatti wrote:I'm sorry if I'm wrong about this, but I'm also voting *Bullz*.

You haven't even said much against me other than going after me for saying I might vote BWT. Which I haven't even done yet.

This is true, but I'd rather not split the vote too much, I'm not voting BWT, and you're not on my relatively long list of likely civs.

What's up with splitting the vote? That baddie role kills a particular number voter as I understood it, doesn't matter who that voter went for.

Vompatti wrote:I'm sorry if I'm wrong about this, but I'm also voting *Bullz*.

You haven't even said much against me other than going after me for saying I might vote BWT. Which I haven't even done yet.

Lizzy wrote:Hai!

I don't see a potential case on Russ (yet). Looking back at MP's posts, the names that have appeared on his suspect list, the voting patterns of some people, and the fact that I have been consistent with my suspects and voting, Imma gonna vote Bullz again today k. The Sock's suspect list consisted, obviously, of people who have ended up being civvies, people who I am fairly sure are civvies because of the nature and mild aggressiveness of his posts towards them, Russ included... and someone I consider to be a team mate of his, for a 'just in case situation', who has only been mentioned here and there, but that was it. That person is Bullz. I find his posting style in this game quite similar to mine back in the ol' Thomas days, and his replies to accusations extremely calculated, rational, non-defensive, like the very good psycho student that he is. ^___^

I know I said I won't look at my voters, but one in particular seems fishy at this point: bwt. His voting style is the exact opposite of Bullz's - while the former jumps on bandwagons hoping peut-être, to get lost in the crowd, the latter has been avoiding them, perhaps to avoid the responsibility of voting off civvies (like I used to do back in the day k).

Butt for now... *votes Bullz*

I feel like my posting style is always the same no matter what, whether I'm good or bad I pretty much act the same. I'm always calculated at least. Sometimes even rational as well.

Vompatti wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Vompatti wrote:Based on the above it strongly seems to me that BWT is not bad and that Bullz is trying to set him up.

Wait why have you come to that conclusion? Where has your sudden suspicion on me come from anyway?

I find it weird that after our discussion about the air and ice kings you suggest the air king might have missed the PM and that BWT has probably not been silenced and that he's being "blendy". Why are you suddenly pushing for BWT? I'd like to see BWT defend himself before we lynch him (if he can).

Hardly pushing, just said I might vote for him and that he has been blendy.

I bet you will vote for him. Or would you be as willing to vote Russ or LT, for example?

No idea. I already said that. I also said I might vote SVS because I've seen no proof she's not bad yet. Why are you defending him so heavily?

Vompatti wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Vompatti wrote:Based on the above it strongly seems to me that BWT is not bad and that Bullz is trying to set him up.

Wait why have you come to that conclusion? Where has your sudden suspicion on me come from anyway?

I find it weird that after our discussion about the air and ice kings you suggest the air king might have missed the PM and that BWT has probably not been silenced and that he's being "blendy". Why are you suddenly pushing for BWT? I'd like to see BWT defend himself before we lynch him (if he can).

Hardly pushing, just said I might vote for him and that he has been blendy.

Vompatti wrote:Based on the above it strongly seems to me that BWT is not bad and that Bullz is trying to set him up.

Wait why have you come to that conclusion? Where has your sudden suspicion on me come from anyway?

Mongoose wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Vompatti wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Vompatti wrote:I know I said BWT or Russ, but now I'm not so sure about either. I could possibly see myself voting LT just because I see no evidence of her being civ.

What do you all think about Bullz?

I keep forgetting BWT is even here. I think he's pretty blendy and may vote for him but I'd also consider a vote for SVS as I've not seen anything to convince me she's not a baddie yet. As for LT and Russ, no idea either way.

So you don't consider it likely that BWT would have been silenced?

I didn't say anything about that. I mean in general BWT hasn't seemed to say much but posts just enough that you couldn't call him a low poster.

Is that what "being blendy" means?

Basically yeah. Being blendy is to just go with the flow ('blend in') and trying to avoid putting yourself out there in a major way so as not to gain any unwanted attention. It's generally seen as something baddies try to do.

Vompatti wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Vompatti wrote:I know I said BWT or Russ, but now I'm not so sure about either. I could possibly see myself voting LT just because I see no evidence of her being civ.

What do you all think about Bullz?

I keep forgetting BWT is even here. I think he's pretty blendy and may vote for him but I'd also consider a vote for SVS as I've not seen anything to convince me she's not a baddie yet. As for LT and Russ, no idea either way.

So you don't consider it likely that BWT would have been silenced?

I didn't say anything about that. I mean in general BWT hasn't seemed to say much but posts just enough that you couldn't call him a low poster.

Vompatti wrote:I know I said BWT or Russ, but now I'm not so sure about either. I could possibly see myself voting LT just because I see no evidence of her being civ.

What do you all think about Bullz?

I keep forgetting BWT is even here. I think he's pretty blendy and may vote for him but I'd also consider a vote for SVS as I've not seen anything to convince me she's not a baddie yet. As for LT and Russ, no idea either way.