The Syndicate

Epignosis wrote: The Corporation did indeed deserve this win. Very well played. I was really sad to die in this one. I woke up in the middle of the night just to check the outcome of the Night, and all I saw was that my name was not on the lynch poll.

Seems to be a recurring theme (and the mark of a great game!). When we got a double night I was so excited because it meant I'd definitely get btsc, and when I died I promised DF I'd have some sort of revenge. He had actually PM'ed me with just a which was how I knew I was dead, even before I read the night post. I guess I kinda did get revenge anyway by killing AP in Shawshank when his power probably could've won the civs the game

Bass_the_Clever wrote:who else played the mini games because I won everyone but the first royal rumble and the last royal rumble.

I won a battle royal at Survivor Series (the first) which got me a hint about Edge's identity. I guessed 27 for the first Rumble because it's the 'luckiest' number, had no idea that 14 is supposed to be unlucky.

Bullzeye wrote: I was Lita, and my secret was that if I found Edge instead of the Hardys I'd join his team. So... yeah, sorry Matt and Jeff but you were never even a consideration for me Let me choose between civ and bad and I'll pick bad every single time. I got a hint that Edge was a KSiter and when the double night happened there were only two I hadn't checked, so I'd have joined the Heels and been super happy if it weren't for Triple H ¬_¬.

In fact, I checked LouLou the night I died so if I'd have lived I would've stayed civ and our group would know for sure who Edge was. That could have been quite interesting.

Congratulations baddies, a well deserved win!

S~V~S wrote: In the end MPs strategy of hard distancing did pay off (although we had some spirited PM arguments while it was going on lol) since I don't think I took any real suspicion the whole game. And Bass is a freaking genius. That is all

You and MP are insane. I'd never have seriously believed you two were teammates. I think I entertained the notion for a little while but kinda dismissed it because of how strongly you guys were distanced from each other.

I was Lita, and my secret was that if I found Edge instead of the Hardys I'd join his team. So... yeah, sorry Matt and Jeff but you were never even a consideration for me Let me choose between civ and bad and I'll pick bad every single time. I got a hint that Edge was a KSiter and when the double night happened there were only two I hadn't checked, so I'd have joined the Heels and been super happy if it weren't for Triple H ¬_¬.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Did anyone else watch old school RAW last night?

I did! I tend to only watch between January and Wrestlemania. I thought it was pretty good. Flair wasn't as drunk as last time he was on, Piper was great and the Jake Roberts appearance was awesome. I'm especially interested in where The Shield are gonna go from here. Obviously they'll break up soon and that feud will be amazing if done right.

Epignosis wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

Epignosis wrote: However, seeing the result happen the way that it played out, I'm glad I did not. I do not regret my vote for wrathofgod.

What do you mean by that? I'm not saying you should regret it, I don't regret my Sorsha vote because I still think she's bad. Just wondering what in particular makes you feel that way.

MP got lynched with fewer than the most number of votes. And he has the larger team. Those two facts make Day 4 extremely valuable.

First thing: Yes, very interesting. Second: He was actually on the smaller team, as a member of The Corporation. The Arrogant Heels have one extra member. Possibly two now assuming no baddie NKs. Day four was still valuable and interesting though.

Epignosis wrote: However, seeing the result happen the way that it played out, I'm glad I did not. I do not regret my vote for wrathofgod.

What do you mean by that? I'm not saying you should regret it, I don't regret my Sorsha vote because I still think she's bad. Just wondering what in particular makes you feel that way.

Lizzy wrote:Well, this makes things a tad easier. Bullz has had a similar style to MP but toned it down recently. Nicely played! Then, knowing MP as a baddie, I would suggest looking at his list of suspects. He always throws in one or two teammates (just in case) but never actually votes for them, only as a last resort. I think LouLou might a good guess. Yes, I am fully aware I am one of them as well, butt I felt I should leave this here in case I get NK'd (two nights in a row k). I also don't trust the people who have been on my side, particularly Hedge and to a lesser extent K4J.

Also, VOMPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Since when have I had a similar style to MP? I rarely make posts as long as his, nor am I usually as active as he is when he gets going. I also don't often use the tactic of distancing from my teammates to the extent he does. Good point on that though, I'd bet that at least one of the people he was 'suspicious' of is a fellow Corporation member.

Wow MP really had me fooled there. I guess I need to rethink a few things.

I need to get to bed before I pass out. Going to stick with my previous vote for Sorsha and hope that others join me in that. She bandwagon'ed Mongoose, has been blendy and dismissive of suspicions (sometimes to the point of ignoring them), and the logic behind her MP vote seems questionable. I would like to vote someone who already had a vote in hope of preventing what I think would be a civ lynch (MP), but I'm just not suspicious enough of anyone who already does have a vote.

*Votes Sorsha*

kneel4justice wrote: Yes, you're right. I guess as a civ, sometimes I say, whatever (after defending myself) but as scum I tend to make sure I settle down the suspicions and don't give up until everyone understands........IDK

I guess we just have different styles which affect the way we view this kind of stuff. I go to my grave defending no matter what, even if I'm frustrated and stressed I fight. Sometimes as a doomed civ I just have to laugh at people who are determined that I'm bad.

Linki - I haven't formed a strong opinion of MR, but it's nearly 2 am and I'm too tired to start now. I will look at him when I'm awake though. Sorry that that doesn't really help you right now.

Third linki (yeah I skipped one) - Oh my god can I just post? :P

4th - Come on!

kneel4justice wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: You don't think the way Sorsha voted for me today was suspicious?

The way she made it about Daisy's "mostly throwaway" instead of about her feelings of me pinged me. In addition, I addressed her points about me but she ignored them completely.

I just don't get it.

I guess I missed the connection between her and Daisy's vote. Was she implying that Daisy voted for a reason and that she was following that? I know she said it probably was not a throwaway vote because why not vote for yourself, which was weird. Daisy even said it was mostly... I kind of think her vote was her protecting Lou.

She ignored my responses to her accusations as well. Hmm.

I really need to remember to multiquote.

Sorsha also didn't respond to my comments aimed at her. When she does respond to stuff I get the feeling she doesn't really care. Not one of her posts have given me a good feeling about her actually, and her seeming refusal to respond to accusations doesn't help. I might actually vote that way again.

Would a scum try harder to address peoples opinions? To try to talk them down? Not be so careless?

Wouldn't a civ want to do all those things as well though? It's not like anyone signs up for a game intending not to see the end. I know I always try to address anyone who mentions suspicions of me in any game regardless of alignment.

kneel4justice wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: You don't think the way Sorsha voted for me today was suspicious?

The way she made it about Daisy's "mostly throwaway" instead of about her feelings of me pinged me. In addition, I addressed her points about me but she ignored them completely.

I just don't get it.

I guess I missed the connection between her and Daisy's vote. Was she implying that Daisy voted for a reason and that she was following that? I know she said it probably was not a throwaway vote because why not vote for yourself, which was weird. Daisy even said it was mostly... I kind of think her vote was her protecting Lou.

She ignored my responses to her accusations as well. Hmm.

I really need to remember to multiquote.

Sorsha also didn't respond to my comments aimed at her. When she does respond to stuff I get the feeling she doesn't really care. Not one of her posts have given me a good feeling about her actually, and her seeming refusal to respond to accusations doesn't help. I might actually vote that way again.

kneel4justice wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Help me out here though.

Just want to confirm, Bullz, this does not ping you?

Nah, just makes him sound desperate to stay alive. Civs get desperate as well. In my experience desperate baddies go for more threatening "oh you really don't want me dead. Not because my baddie teammates will slaughter all my voters but because I'm such an awesome civ you'll literally cry when my role is revealed and the game will be over even though I'm only the third person to be lynched" tactics. Don't get me wrong, I don't think MP is definitely 100% super-civ who I'd trust to the end of my days, but I don't think he's bad either.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Bullz, what do you think of S~V~S this game?

I've never been particularly good at reading her, so I think that tends to put me off trying to form a strong opinion. I have thought a couple of things from her were odd, the day one stuff with Epi reminded me of times I've seen her as a baddie. She also said she thought Mongoose might have been trying to distract people by bringing up the whole crosspost issue but I don't see why any player, particularly someone as experienced as SVS, would think that somebody might consider that as a useful tactic. I think she's more likely to be bad than you are but I dunno if I'm prepared to back that up with a vote.

MovingPictures07 wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote:Where is everyone thinking of voting?

Probably in my bedroom, given that that's where my laptop lives

I really don't understand this sudden movement against you, and if you are lynched today and turn up bad I'll be surprised. I won't be voting you though, not unless you post a screenshot of your role PM showing you as a member of a baddie team. But then you'd be modkilled so there'd be no point. I do find it interesting to note that everyone who has voted you so far is a fairly low poster...

LOL, nice answer.

I appreciate that. If you had to vote right now who would it be for?

I'm actually not sure. I'm going to reverse my decision to only vote for someone who already has a vote because I don't have any strong feelings about most of them. Of the vote-getters, Bass looks kinda off to me but I don't think I can justify a vote for him right now. I feel the same about Dom actually, I could see what people were saying about the case on him but at the same time his own posts remind me of a less aggressive version of our interactions in Bioshock. Of Sorsha and DP, I still think at least one is a bandwagoning baddie and some of Sorsha's posts have raised my suspicions a bit.

Boomslang's thing about Lizzy seemed strange (because he seems to think she's hinting at being the SK), but I'm not sure if I think that means he's bad or just didn't think it through. I can't see even the zaniest of zany players admitting to being an LMS role, not even to celebrate Saint Zany's Day. A lot of people are also just too quiet for my liking. Dex and Elo spring to mind.

I may end up just sticking with my day 3 suspicions at this point but I'm gonna try to do a quick overview of everyone and see how I feel.

Hmmm... I feel like so far every day in this game the votes have been really spread out and I've almost always contributed to that by voting people who didn't already have one so today I will try to vote someone who has votes already unless I find I'm not suspicious of anyone.

MovingPictures07 wrote:Where is everyone thinking of voting?

Probably in my bedroom, given that that's where my laptop lives

I really don't understand this sudden movement against you, and if you are lynched today and turn up bad I'll be surprised. I won't be voting you though, not unless you post a screenshot of your role PM showing you as a member of a baddie team. But then you'd be modkilled so there'd be no point. I do find it interesting to note that everyone who has voted you so far is a fairly low poster...

Zany Dex wrote:I'm not happy about epig getting a vote, he is insanities and can't defend himself.

I kinda agree with people not taking responsibility for their vote and blaming epig. He is but a man after all.

Bullzeye is flicking mud at a lot of people I don't get good feelings about him.

I'm voting bass.

So we can just blame other people for our part in getting civvies lynched and that's the end of it? Why did I not know that until now? I'll definitely do it from now on!

Also I've mentioned like 3 people as suspicious. Hardly flicking mud, and hardly a lot of people. You also didn't explain why you voted Bass.

DFaraday wrote:The poll has been extended by 24 hours. I am a benevolent and wise host.

Thanks! In that case I'm gonna just go to bed now and see what the next 24 hours bring, rather than rush my vote.

Sorsha wrote: I have played quite a few games with you and can not remember you brining me up like this or agreeing with someone on something like this about me ever. Its possible that you HAVE but it has been so infrequent that I can't think of a time it has ever happened. Your subsequent posts about me have had the same flip floppiness. From the post above to now I feel like you are just waiting for someone to solidly say "I am voting for Sorsha" so that you can be like "Yeah, me too."

If he was, why wouldn't he have voted for you yesterday when I (and maybe someone else) did? You say the same a bit later to K4J, that he(?)'s waiting for someone to get the ball rolling on you and join the bandwagon. There kinda is a ball, people have mentioned you and even voted for you so I'm not sure how that argument makes much sense. Am I missing something? Also your Vomp vote really was, as K4J said, quite easy. When people act like he always does it's easy to vote them and not have to worry when they flip civ because he was drawing so much attention to himself that why wouldn't someone vote for him?

MovingPictures07 wrote:I'm frankly still convinced Dom is likely baddie, even though a couple of others said they are reading it as civ on civ. Well, I'm not, and I would vote but I still don't feel I've received enough commentary (likely due to the holidays) on him or other suspicions/individuals. BUT

However, I do also recognize there are others who are acting in probably just as suspicious of a fashion as him, but I've been writing off considering them for a vote due to conceived notions of their sincerity or due to comparisons of past games.

I would have to do a proper read through of Dom before I formed a strong opinion on the matter but I am beginning to think the case against him might have some merit.

I mentioned feeling bad about Epig earlier in the game but I've begun to change my mind. Not sure if I'd mentioned that yet so thought I'd throw it out in case anyone wondered. Some of his more recent posts make me lean civ for him.

MovingPictures07 wrote: Consequently, my eye is solidly on Lizzy, BUT I'm still not feeling fully comfortable in a vote her way... is there anyone here who can actually read Lizzy? If you do exist and want to contribute your thoughts as to what this all means, that'd be great.

I used to think I could read Lizzy based on having baddie btsc with her in her first game, but I'm pretty sure she's no longer the same as back then. In Thomas she was quiet and tried to avoid drawing too much attention to herself but that's probably no longer the case for her baddie style. I still don't think she's bad here (yet) but at the same time I wouldn't jump off a bridge just because she thought it was a good idea. Ultimately I'm not sure, but when is anyone ever sure about Lizzy, Vomp, or AP?

kneel4justice wrote:I am not voting Lou. I do not think she is all that scummy, and no I did not read that post...far too long and I don't really think anything can be determined from it, because I don't think you know her very well. I am going to say that I do not think you can compare her to what you saw on KSITE for two reasons, 1. she remarkably caught scum and faced massive suspicion and these things were not exactly her everyday game and 2. these are two completely different environments and she is not going to act the same, you can see her participation level is not exactly where it was on KSITE.
Also, she likes to question people and question things, make points but it does not necessarily mean she is suspicious, just trying to hunt.

I kinda trust you at the moment, and since you probably know Lou better than the rest of us I'll accept your judgement on her for now.

Boomslang wrote: Not really sure how to take the Vomps kill. If anything, my only read is to be less suspicious of Sorsha, because I doubt her team would NK someone she voted for. I'm feeling more suspicious of the FZ kill. She was doing a lot of digging around in her last few posts before dying, and seems like someone may have taken offense.

There is another baddie team Sorsha could belong to. In fact, the other team is bigger so she's slightly more likely to be on that one Or it could be a setup attempt. Or someone who took issue with Vomp's style. Is there anyone in particular you think FZ might have offended with her suspicions? I agree with you on that point.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Does anyone one else feel like MP is a baddie just throwing stuff around seeing if anyone will bite on it? The reason I think this is because almost everyone he has said something about he goes on to say something else that gives him an out if he is wrong.

I'm fairly confident this is MP's civ game. It reminds me of Homestar (seriously how many times is that game gonna be referenced in this one?) in that he's making BIG posts about EVERYTHING. As I said earlier, in my experience bad MP is not quite so noisy.

Bass_the_Clever wrote: Thrid I take full responsibility for all my votes I gave my reasons why I voted, which in my mind I thought where good reasons but everyone is wrong sometimes. I haven't played a lot of games so yea I going to be wrong a lot because of the lack of knowledge I have about everyone's game styles and how they differ from civ and baddie.

You say you gave a reason for voting, that reason was that you agreed with Epi. You also used the crosspost thing but I still fail to see how one could argue that that's something a baddie would set up deliberately.

I'm not quite sure who to vote today, I'll have to catch up (have been really busy) but I may end up sticking with Sorsha or going with DP.

Dom wrote:Which is worse: being killed on Christmas or your birthday?

I'd say being killed via lynch switch literally minutes before you'd have become a member of three factions (while only loyal to the baddies) after more than a week of convincing your civ btsc partners you're totally innocent and giving all their secrets to the baddies who recruited you takes the cake Not that I'm still depressed about that. Does suck for Vomp though, killed twice in a day. I had good feelings about FZ too.

Lizzy wrote: 3. This:

Loulou26 wrote:Okay I'm voting Lizzy. I don't like the fact that she has voted Bull when I think out of everyone he's the most civvie right now because of all the analysing he's doing.

this:

FZ. wrote:

MovingPictures07 wrote: Bullzeye - Firmly leaning civvie - Has been posting with frequency and insight that I would expect from him. Can be a really tricksy baddie, but I don't have any reason to believe he's doing that here. Seems reasonable and I believe he is genuinely civvie-minded.

might be the person I feel is most civvie. He's posts come off as genuine, I like the way he's thinking most of the time, and even when I don't agree with his suspicions, I get where they are coming from

and this:

Mister Rearranger wrote: Bullz - I've felt strong about Bullz all game. Copacetic readthrough and has shared a lot of my own opinions without piggybacking on them (ie: voicing them without me mentioning them first in thread). One of my best civ feelings, at this point.

... make me feel even more confident about my vote for teh Bullzer

I was going to make a comment about this but I then realised I don't actually know why it surprised me. I am kinda surprised by how many people seem to be seeing me as a civ this game. I don't think I've ever had this much trust before.

MovingPictures07 wrote: First off, RIPIYWG Vomps and FZ. I was really enjoying playing with you, FZ, so regardless of your alignment, sad to see you go. Vomps is a REALLY weird kill... someone obviously just wanted him out of the game.

It does strike me as odd that someone would go after Vomp of all people. I wouldn't really have described him as a threat to the baddies.

S~V~S wrote: And looking back, if i recall correctly, this is only the 2nd insanification of the game? And the civ insanifies 3rd night? So is Roddy gone, or is Roddy missing PMs? Or is it just a coincidence?

Do we know if baddies can send group PMs? If they can, it's more likely Roddy is dead than AWOL, right? Or he was blocked, or targeted someone who died.

DFaraday wrote: DID SOMEONE SAY "NO! YES!!!"????

Mah boy D. Bryan! (I miss Booker on commentary). Seeing those gifs made me even more sure that Bryan needs a haircut and a shave before I can continue to take him seriously. He looks like a crazy old hermit right now.

This list making idea seems interesting. I may attempt to make one later, but I don't have time to go over everyone right now so it probably won't be til after the night.

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I really think maybe we should also look at the ten people who didn't vote .

We should. Nobody should be immune from discussion, we should look at everyone really. If you want to start with no-voters go ahead but bear in mind that many didn't vote because they also aren't posting, so you probably won't hear a response.

Poor Russ and poor us!

kneel4justice wrote:I feel like I failed, I rarely ever lynch townies. Now I wonder if I am only a good mafia player because I have played with the same people for three years, lol. Hopefully that is not the case, I'm not quite sure where to go on from here.

I'm sure you're a great player, don't feel too bad. Playing with 25 people you've never met before probably doesn't make the game easy.

Hedgeowl wrote: So, Bullz, you up for Russti voters analysis next?

There's definitely a few things worth looking over with that lynch, but it doesn't just have to be me who does it. Anyone who wants to can and should.

FZ. wrote: Apparently, I can't be part of an actual lynch because people vote when I'm asleep. I told you Russ seemed pretty OK to me. If you don't trust my instincts anymore, that's fine.

Where are you from, if you don't mind me asking? That is exactly how I feel playing in the UK, polls very rarely end before midnight and I always feel compelled to stay up. Not with this game though, I don't love anyone here enough to stay awake until 6 am.

Looking at people who voted for Russ, there are a few who have really fishy reasons. I've trusted MP for most of the game so far, but he gave too many reasons for his vote, and it made me think he's aiming to please. I got all the hesitation, I just didn't get the final decision to vote for Russ. If anything, between the two he contemplated, I'd have gone for Sorsha.

Given his discussion for most of the day I'd kinda expected MP to go for SVS. He did say what he'd seen from Sorsha is what he thinks is normal civ behaviour for her as well, so if he'd put a vote on her that would actually have made me kinda suspicious.

I'm gonna vote Sorsha because I don't like her Mongoose vote, blendiness, or general tone in some of her more recent posts. Also didn't vote DP because I don't want to spread the vote even further than it is.

*Votes Sorsha*

kneel4justice wrote:

Sorsha wrote:

kneel4justice wrote:

Sorsha wrote:Voted Vomps. He voted himself too so I am assuming he wants to be lynched.

This is such an easy vote. You do not have to do any kind of scumhunting at all to vote for Vomps. At least TH provided a bit more reasoning than you did.
If you were truly assuming he wanted to be lynched, which I don't think you are (I think you're just trying to show your disapproval for his gameplay), then you'd consider the fact that scum do not want to be lynched.

So what... its my vote to do with what I want.

These kind of posts where people don't want to explain themselves make no sense to me. It is a game, it is my job as a player to scumhunt. Why people won't do something simple enough as explain their self or have a conversation about something without being dismissive is beyond me. I don't know how to play when these are the kinds of responses that some players are giving, I truly am trying my hardest to develop myself in this game but I just don't see how I can do so anymore.
And now I don't know if voting for you is because this emotionally triggers me to think you're sucm or if you're truly being scummy (vs. a difficult townie).

I have to agree here. Dismissive attitudes do not help me feel that a person is probably good, unless they're clearly at a point where they've become frustrated with the line of discussion. That probably isn't what's going on here since Sorsha has hardly been mentioned much. At this point my vote is either going to her or DP. I'm kinda hoping for DP to pop up and explain himself but I don't know if that will happen.

MovingPictures07 wrote: Somehow I missed that Bullz beat me to this. Lol.

Sorry, I'm trying to procrastinate I need literally 100 words to hit my target for today but mafia is sooooo much more appealing than whether or not inclusive education is a good thing.

Loulou26 wrote:
Hmm so does this mean that Mata was civvie? I'm so confused when you don't reveal their alignment.

We don't know for sure. That's basically why we don't reveal NK'd players roles, to keep the mystery. The only thing we can say with some certainty is that she probably wasn't an Arrogant Heel unless there's someone I've forgotten about who can switch targets.



Writing an essay and playing mafia at the same time means I keep feeling a need to put citations in my posts.

kneel4justice wrote:
Bullzeye: Well I am not so sure what to think about you, I liked your posting but now I think I am leaning towards trusting Epig, so I am wondering if that means anything for you, because you haven’t changed your mind. Not sure I like your post referencing the attempt to kill you.

I kinda have actually, I said earlier I'm not necessarily suspicious of him any more. I think he may have changed his mind on me as well. Also I know you'd have no way to know this but I often make jokey posts like the one I directed at Hogan. It's just my personality. In Homestar Runner I did a similar one, professing my undying love for whoever had resurrected me and vowing to kill the SK (who had killed me) "right in the face".

MovingPictures07 wrote:Bullz, I find your posts on the matter have been actually pretty insightful, even if I have been reading some players differently.

What are you currently feeling, a DP vote?

And is there any way you can clarify any further why you're not feeling as strongly about S~V~S?

DP or Sorsha yeah, both for the same reason of blendiness. Your and SVS' comments that this is Sorsha's normal behaviour make me lean toward the former. I'd really like to clarify my position on SVS but I can't. You know how sometimes you just don't know how you feel about a person? I don't think she's good, but I'm not necessarily suspicious of her. Could you remind me of the main points of the case against her?

Loulou26 wrote:

Matahari wrote:

Mister Rearranger wrote:^Then you should be lynched early and often until you conform like the rest of us sheeple!

Matahari wrote: Oh I see. You said something to me in a post about not answering your question, then later I posted some off-topic, and you asked "is Mata OTified?" I took that as a snarky way of prodding me into sharing my game thoughts. (And don't get me wrong, I love snark! It's my kinda language)

I was totally thinking you were posting that random OT message on purpose, which confused the hell out of me, haha.

I did pick out the people I want to analyze further from the Mongoose voters. They are listed in a previous post of mine. If you need further elaboration on any one of those names specifically, don't hesitate to ask.

sorry it wasn't you I should have asked. It was Turnip who said that he hadn't had time to look at the hoppers.

So, I'll try again. TH have you looked yet at the people who voted mongoose without any reasoning behind it?

Have you? I can't remember reading it if you did so if you can direct me to your post that would be helpful.

I don't know if TH ever did but I've made several posts looking over the Mongoose voters (with the accidental exception of Epignosis) which you can find by clicking the link to view all my posts in this topic under my avatar

Bass_the_Clever wrote:Has CBK or WoG posted anything this game or have I just missed it ?

From the Who Posted list CBK has posted 6 times but WoG hasn't at all.


I might actually go with a Sorsha vote today. I think she was really blendy on day 2, literally never mentioned anything to do with being suspicious of Mongoose and took no part in the discussion on her then showed up to tack a vote on when the lynch was already pretty much decided. DP is very similar. I could see a vote for either of those two, I think they're both being deliberately blendy, following the crowd to avoid gaining attention.

kneel4justice wrote:I don't like Russ' vote for Epig. But maybe I am being stupid.
Bullz, do you still suspect Epig? Sorry I haven't fully caught up, doing last minute Christmas things.

Well I don't not suspect him, if that means anything. His attitude during our night 2 conversation combined with the way certain players latched onto him made me wonder where his loyalties lie but more recent posts of his are making me feel a bit better about him. Ultimately I'm not sure but wouldn't try to talk anyone out of voting him if that's what they think is best.

So carrying on with looking at Mongoose voters I'm gonna have a poke at Bass and SVS (Voters 5 and 6 respectively). Doing it in the same post because Bass has also been really quiet, not sure how I overlooked that yesterday. The only thing that really caught my eye though is this:

Bass_the_Clever wrote:I hate saying this but I'm going to have to go with epig on the mongoose vote today she has been acting really different from the game I just played with her and it worries me . It has just been one thing after another. From the day zero vote she made to "having problems with the site" issues she had and its just been one excuse after the other so for that reason I'm *voting Mongoose*

He seems to be suggesting that the whole crosspost drama was actually reason to be suspicious. I know Bass is relatively new but maybe he could explain how that works because it really wouldn't have made sense if a baddie Mongoose had made the whole issue up in order to... I dunno, lose attention? Gain trust? It just strikes me as odd that anyone could say that's a reason to vote for someone.

Anyway, on to SVS. As much as she often claims she finds it hard to read me and I can fool her, it's the same in reverse. I'm not sure if I'm seeing what some others are in terms of suspicion but I dunno if I'd say I trust her either. Her day one discussion with Epi where she said he was being rude seems like something I've generally seen from her as a baddie. I could be misremembering there and maybe someone could bring up an example of a game where she had a similar interaction as a civ. On the other hand I do agree with a lot of things she's said this game. I'm not sure where I stand on her.

I'll now go on to Sorsha. She was 10th to vote (keep this in mind, nobody else came anywhere close to even possibly being in danger of a lynch that day) and didn't mention Mongoose at all on day two. Nor did she give a reason as to why she'd voted. These are her day two posts:

Sorsha wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:If all the discussion today had been about Phil Collins and not the game that we're playing, then I would understand randomizing, but... oh wait...

Sorsha wrote:

Dom wrote:I think I'll probably vote Epig.

Can you please eloborate?

kneel4justice wrote:Interesting. A unshared of people Tribunal of Judgment Maligna.

*cough*original Tribunal of Judgement member*cough*

Summer wrote:EBWOP

Guru... Have you been drinking and playing Mafia again???? You know that never ends well!!! (Btw, whoever did this to him... You probably just jumped to the top of his sh*t list!! )

On a serious note, I saw people talking about being cursed or whatever? Are his posts even going to be readable??

You can usualy get the general jist (gist?) of the response if you do read through the response. There are some moments of clarity in the gibberish.


Nice post on bullz, Epi.

Sorsha wrote:

FZ. wrote:I looked at the roles, and I was under the impression that the civ that could do that to K4J could only do it on night 3. Deflect on night 1, silence on night 2, and make someone crazy on night 3. And then all over again. Is that not what the role implies?
If it does, than that would imply it was a baddie who did this, and then, either K4J was very intuitive in his suspicions, and the baddies wanted to shut him up, but it just makes people trust him more, so why? Or K4J is a baddie and his team decided to do it to make him look like a civ. Or, it's one of the Ksiters that thought it would be funny to shut him up. Another option I see is someone wanting to frame one of the Ksiters.....or none of the above.

I'm sorry, I'm having a really hard time keeping up with two games, and no break like we're used to at nights. This is a major overload.

I'm not going to be here for the next 30+ hours, so I'm going to vote now. I'm going with Sorsha, because her game is pure fluff and OT, and I've seen absolutely nothing from her so far. Sorry I'm not coming up with anything more than that, but I can't keep up.

Yeah.... I'm a slow bloomer.

Sorsha wrote:Voted mongoose..

Not a single mention of the case against Mongoose or what she though of it. In fact she never even mentions having an eye on Mongoose until that vote. She threw a vote onto the end of a bandwagon with no discussion at all. This really catches my eye, it seems to be the very definition of blendy.

Epignosis wrote: My vote against Mongoose was genuine. Mongoose was my top suspect. I'm not sure you would have liked the alternative, since my #2 suspicion was you. And with you going on about me knowing I'm wrong about people and voting them anyway...that's a hell of an accusation.

It's just the impression I got from our exchange the other day.

I don't like how you grilled Mongoose Day 1, and quickly backed off completely without stating why at the time (though you had plenty to say about it afterwards).

I said I'd begun to have doubts, and then decided those doubts were strong enough to make me not vote her. I don't have to post every single thought I have.

1. I just poured through Day 1 between the post in which you grilled Mongoose and the post where you said you would not be voting Mongoose. Not one person said they thought she wasn't bad. The closest you come is Summer saying "I don't think you are all that suspicious," but in that same post, Summer implied that she didn't find anyone suspicious. MP also said he was reading "a civvie Mongoose," however, he immediately followed up with "but," stating that MR had a good point against Mongoose.

I was thinking of those and thought there had been others. It was more her responses to me that convinced me though. Before she was lynched I never said Mongoose was definitely a civ, just that I didn't want to vote for her and didn't think there was much of a case.

2. Ironically, you are giving Devin and others the shake down because they followed someone else's opinion, which, in the above post, after the fact (rather than at the time) you confess to doing the same thing.

I'm looking at Mongoose voters because I think a lot of them jumped on to an easy bandwagon lynch and I don't think that's a civ-friendly thing to do. It was only a couple who followed your logic.

4. What you always do on Day one, then, is vote for a low poster. While I don't begrudge anyone their Day 1 methods (I don't agree with half of them), I find it unbelievable that with all the other discussion going on, and with all the people who had received votes, you had no other suspicions. After correcting Mongoose on the importance of Day 1 and all the information it could bring, you voted for a fluff reason.

I don't know what else to say. I'd spent a lot of time on Mongoose and hadn't really considered other people. I stopped being so suspicious of her and was pretty much stuck. In about half the games I've ever played I vote for a no-show on day one because I'd rather not throw a random vote onto someone who is actually involved in the game.

And this reaction here is what really does it for me:

Bullzeye wrote:

Epignosis wrote:I will be voting for you next. Probably.

Is this even if Mongoose flips civ? Even though you think I'm her teammate? By all means push for my lynch, all you'll do is look bad when my role is revealed.

I'd like to think I'm not the kind of guy to fall for the gambler's fallacy.

You made a case for me being Mongoose's teammate. Mongoose was a civ, so I guess we are teammates, but your case on me seemed to rest on us being baddies together. Since she wasn't bad, I can't be her baddie teammate.

Devin the Omniscient wrote: I realize my play style makes me stand out among the rest of the voters. I use this style when I don't care what happens to me, personally. I want to contribute to the greater cause, but I've failed at that thus far. I have little to no read on the rest of the Goose voters. That being said I was not the first to vote for mongoose (I tend to trust Russti more than most people, but that may be because 2 out of the 3 most recent games I've played I ended up with BTSC with him. Not the case here, so I don't know where he stands. Lizzy... Is Lizzy.) And I was far from the last person to bandwagon vote mongoose. The only person I am tweaked by in the mongoose vote is S-V-S (not including Epi, of course).

But if you're a civ why would you argue for your own lynch? If we lynch you because you wanted to be lynched, that doesn't really help the greater cause. Everyone who voted you will say you did it because you were literally asking for it. You can help us more by being alive, surely.

Devin the Omniscient wrote: Linki: Bullz: No matter which way you end up voting (myself or someone else), thank you for going to the trouble of analyzing my posts.

I know it was basically a rhetorical question but I'd be interested in your response to this:

Bullzeye wrote: People mistrust others all the time and [Devin] was far from the only person to do it in that lynch. So why would we lynch him specifically out of 10 living voters?

Epignosis wrote:

Bullzeye wrote: FWIW Epi is definitely wrong about me. I think he knows this. I think he knew he was wrong about Mongoose. I don't think he cares about either of these things.

This is a highly suspect thing to say, given that there are two bad teams, not one, not to mention dangerous independents. How can I possibly know I was wrong about Mongoose being bad? Even if I were a role checker, I voted Mongoose Day 1.

I'm not surprised you said that. It seems everything I say is highly suspect to you. What I mean is your case on me isn't that good, and I don't think the case on Mongoose was either. I think you realised that but went with it anyway. When you voted her day two you said you were doing it because you 'were responsible for her lynch'. It sounded to me like you didn't really want to vote that way but felt like you should for whatever reason.

Going through the rest of the Mongoose voters, beginning with Devin. On Day One he voted CBK because her day 0 vote was for Titan Towers, widely thought to be a baddie option. He got a bit frustrated that some people weren't seeing his point of view on that. This is also where one of his first requests to die comes in:

Devin the Omniscient wrote:
On the same note: Illogical, MP?? If you were the unknown Warrior, would you not want to vote for PARTS UNKNOWN!?!
Using that same line of thought (AS I FUCKING EXPLAINED IN THE POST ABOVE!) if you were a McMahon, would you not logically think that you would benefit from going to Titan Towers?? Even though the host didn't give you this information!?!

This isn't fucking rocket science people!!! I may still be wrong, but I found something that I thought I could go on. If this still isn't enough to satisfy all of you, then go right ahead and fucking kill me because it isn't worth my time and effort to go any further with this!!!

When I talk about people latching onto Epig's thoughts, this is a perfect example of what I mean:

Devin the Omniscient wrote:Mp, you want my opinion? I will vote anyone Epi votes for this time (as long as it's within the range of people I am thinking of). As SVS said before, he shook the mighty tree and got some great results. And I want to see more results dammit! Mongoose has been a bit strange (disregarding the OT stuff). AP is the one making me most suspicious of her, though. He is super talkative for the normal Matt (I like this! Unfortunately for him it makes me suspicious of him...).

I don't understand why any civ ever would say they're voting for whoever another player votes unless they know for certain that that player is a civ. Doesn't make sense, especially as there's no real reason for someone to be that sure of anybody's role this early in the game. Devin voted before Epi in the end, but still based his vote on who he thought Epi would vote for:

Devin the Omniscient wrote: I will go ahead and vote, too, so I don't forget. Though I said I'd wait for Epi, I can't see him passing a Goose vote today. If he does....

*votes*

I just don't understand the logic of following another player around. If they were teammates and one was new, maybe. Or maybe Devin is bad and trying to make Epi look bad by association? But that said, I don't have the best feelings about Epi right now anyway. I suppose they could be on opposing teams. He also seems to be trying to solicit votes. Early in the game he said it as a joke, then later out of frustration but now he seems to be more serious about it:

Devin the Omniscient wrote: Hardly, I want you to vote for me.

Devin the Omniscient wrote: How selfish of me. Should I have taken the blame for my own actions and then asked everyone to kill Epi? Did I do it wrong? Is that not the correct way to play? Do you request NKs and lynches differently on ksite?
I do it this way: I mistrusted Epi's giant case on Mongoose. So kill me.

People mistrust others all the time and he was far from the only person to do it in that lynch. So why would we lynch him specifically out of 10 living voters? He's not even claiming the lynch was his fault, just that he should die for his vote. Doesn't make any sense and I have no idea what to think of it.

Looking at Devin's posts, he's posted as much as I have but a lot of his posts are just smileys, or OT, or jokes. His most recent at the time of writing this is just one word. He has shared some suspicions but hasn't gone into very much depth at all. I'm fairly suspicious of him, mostly because of his constant requests for death and the fact he voted purely based on the fact that he expected Epi to be voting the same person. Devin is a huge question mark for me.

S~V~S wrote: OK, I will think about this at work today. If i had to vote now, it would be between MP, Devin, & DP. Normally a post like Bullz' analysis of the Mongoose voters, but only the low posters, would ping the hell out of me, but I don't know that i agree with Epi on him, and he made some good points. Especially about DP~ I know DPs game pretty well, both bad and civ, and I don't see civ DP jumping on a bandwagon, he would vote a tangent, or even randomize later into the game than Day One. So that was rather blendy, and there is a difference between quiet and blendy.

It's not like I said I'm only looking at the low posters. I intend to go through the other five as well at some point. But I'm trying to write 1000 words per day to get an essay out of the way before Christmas and I've got interviews to write, surveys to make, exam revision and if I'm really lucky and get through everything quickly enough I can start to write up my other 10,000 word dissertation (just to give an idea of how busy I am). FWIW Epi is definitely wrong about me. I think he knows this. I think he knew he was wrong about Mongoose. I don't think he cares about either of these things.

Here is my opinion on about half the Mongoose voters (she had 11, I'm not going to go through Mata's posts since she's dead). Bear in mind I'm looking at this from the opinion that the case on Mongoose wasn't brilliant, though admittedly I found her suspicious for a little while. I also think the whole crosspost thing was blown out of proportion to make her look bad by some people.

So, going through the Mongoose bandwagon we get Lizzy first (since she was first to vote). She threw down her Mongoose vote after not much discussion of her but also seems kinda busy and is being characteristically quiet. Not sure what to make of her but her responses to me after saying she'd vote for me are basically the same things as Epi's.

Russtifinko was second to vote for her, another very busy player with commitments keeping him out. Claimed he'll be back in full force today. He didn't really mention Mongoose before he cast his vote, and implied that he was doing it at least partially because of Epig's thoughts:

Russtifinko wrote:Just popping in to vote. I'll be really sad if Epi has fooled/misled ne again, but there's no denying mongoose is acting weird. I don't think the cross-posting makes her bad, but general tone has made me a bit nervous

Elo was the fourth voter and has posted four times all game. She's clearly busy but has had time to say far more in Shawshank. Maybe she's just prioritising her husband's game or maybe she's trying to fly low. I dunno. A few people thought her day 1 vote for Mongoose was weird because she claimed to randomise a vote which ended up landed on 'the most talked about person in the thread'. Her last post was voting for Mongoose, in which she said she was doing it because of Epi's flawless judgement.

Dex was late showing up and voted 7th. Looking at his posts he hasn't seemed to really add very much, just agreeing with others. He also hasn't seemed his usual zany self in this game.

The last of the low posting bandwagon voters (and the last on the bandwagon anyway) was DP. He gave no reason for his vote and it was in fact the second time he ever even mentioned her name. By the time he voted it was pointless to vote for anyone else, she had 10 votes already and was guaranteed to die. I kinda feel like he threw his vote onto the bandwagon hoping to hide among the crowd and not have to put himself out there too much with a vote for anyone else.

Kinda hard to form opinions on them because they've made about 40 posts between the 5 of them. If I was suspicious of any of these it'd be DP but I also kinda question Elo's position. Russ is busy and Lizzy is Lizzy, I'm curious of Dex but haven't really formed an opinion yet.

Mister Rearranger wrote:

Turnip Head wrote:Is it weird that Devin is asking to be lynched?

Not if he has a role that will survive it.

Pretty sure he's asked to die before, and he was a civ. Not sure what that means for this game though.

I'm gonna start reading through the people who voted Mongoose now, probably will begin with the ones who've not posted much because I'm a lazy person. Will bring up anything odd that I find.

Lizzy wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:So I decided to procrastinate by looking at the people who voted Mongoose and the first thing I notice is that about half of her voters had 10 posts or less: Lizzy (10), Russ (9), Elo (4), Dex (5), DP (7). Just caught my eye because it seems like some of them could just be trying to fly low and throw votes onto an easy target, knowing she was probably going to be lynched no matter what.

I might have to vote for you next k

Why, you ask?
1. I did the same thing last time I was a baddie;
2. We have pretty similar baddie playing styles k.
3. Because I can.

1. You did what last time you were a baddie? I'm pretty sure the only time we've both played together and you were bad is in Thomas, where I was bad as well.
2. I dunno if we do, but you're not seeing my baddie style right now.
3. You're mean

k?

kneel4justice wrote:Jeez.
You people and your statistics!
Have we forgot about scum-hunting and only decided to play this game mathematically?

Believe me, I'm the last person to defend maths, but looking at times of votes and stuff can be pretty helpful in catching baddies trying to fly low and avoid attention. Do they not do that on Ksite?

S~V~S wrote:

Bullzeye wrote:So I decided to procrastinate by looking at the people who voted Mongoose and the first thing I notice is that about half of her voters had 10 posts or less: Lizzy (10), Russ (9), Elo (4), Dex (5), DP (7). Just caught my eye because it seems like some of them could just be trying to fly low and throw votes onto an easy target, knowing she was probably going to be lynched no matter what.

I was wondering how long I was playing Mafia, and I looked up my first game at LP, Martian Mafia. Out of this whole big 30 player list, and that whole big 30 player list, only you, me & Turnip head played all three. Lots of people come and gone, eh? I got killed like Night One I think, lol.

Of that list, I know from talking to him about the game he is submitting to the poll that Russti has been traveling, and Lizzy is often quiet. Dex & DP interest me. If they are not caught up with the thread, they will unashamedly vote a tangent, or DP will even randomize past Day One, but I don't think of them as being baddie bandwagon jumpers. Dex though has been uber quiet in most games recently, so "?" there. Didn't Elo also randomize Mongoose on Day One?

Out of those, the one that most intrigues me is DP, not because of post #, he always low posts, but becasue he really is not a bandwagon jumper, IMO. Where in the order did he vote? Before or after Mongoose was a sure thing?

Also, do YOU know how you survived?

Haha, man I sucked at that game. It's why I call Beatles my first That was your first go as well? I thought you'd been around far longer than that.

DP was actually the very last (11th) to vote for Mongoose, and the 27th overall voter. Mongoose was doomed long before he showed up. I know most of those names belong to busy or generally quiet people but I thought it was interesting that so many such people voted the same way.

As I've said, I have no idea why I survived.

So I decided to procrastinate by looking at the people who voted Mongoose and the first thing I notice is that about half of her voters had 10 posts or less: Lizzy (10), Russ (9), Elo (4), Dex (5), DP (7). Just caught my eye because it seems like some of them could just be trying to fly low and throw votes onto an easy target, knowing she was probably going to be lynched no matter what.

Thanks, whoever protected me/blocked Hogan. I'd have been really sad to die on night 2! Hulk: Try in future not to suck as much as the real Hulk Hogan does I guess you're probably one of the players who've latched on to Epi's thoughts about me. Also, sorry to see you go Mata. It's always good to have you around.

FZ. wrote: I see Bullz is not dead. I just want to make sure I get how it works here. If the story tells us there was an attempt on his life, does that mean that we can rule out a blocker blocking the killer, right? Because I assume we wouldn't even hear about it. Or am I wrong?
How likely is it that he was saved? Was he that obvious of a civ that someone would save him out of everyone?

When I hosted I wrote all kill attempts in the night post regardless of why they failed (and most of them did). I think that's generally how it works, we see the choice the baddies made and we see if anyone else's choices affected it. My role is not why I survived, something else must have caused that but I'm at a loss as to what. Maybe someone with a protect knows my civ game, or maybe a blocker doesn't trust Hulk Hogan.

Today I intend to have a look at the Mongoose bandwagon, I don't think all of them are bad but a few probably are. Epi in particular I've given up trying to have a direct conversation with after the other night, but I really don't trust him. Devin's asking for a lynch reminds me of Homestar when he did the exact same thing. He was a civ there and I really don't see a baddie asking to get lynched and being serious about it. It'd piss off all their teammates IMO.