The Syndicate

s/one/won

Whooo sweet!! I really enjoyed this game a ton, and I'm glad my faction one even though I wasn't alive through the end. Definitely a lot of credit goes to a bunch of the Shu guys and everyone who contributed a lot to the civ cause in general. And congrats to the indie teams as well -- couple of surprises there tbh. Thanks Epi!

Noooo

Epi, I've really enjoyed this game a ton, thanks! Good luck friends

And I'm voting for Lorab and Niju, I think those are solid choices.

Quin wrote: I think that there's been associations between nutella and the Nanman that make me consider that possibility more than I do LoRab, at the very least.

What associations? Please elaborate because most of my "associations" with the nanman have been successfully voting for them.

Indi I'm not sure what you mean about MM "mentioning" me when he quoted a post by Wilgy quoting me and mis-identifying me as Lorab. But I was very confused about those two mentions of Lorab from Wilgy as well. She actually is on my radar as potential Nanman and I'd be happy to throw a vote her way today. What should become clear to you though, and I've pointed this out many times but I know you haven't read much yet, is that my voting record and behavior during the first couple days regarding the Wilgy and MM lynches should prove to you that I'm not their teammate.

I am likely to vote for some combination of Mac, Niju, Simon, and Jan/maybe leetic.

RIP sloon.

Why should I duel, O scribe of the green text?

indiglo wrote:Also, in my head, I say Jan as a Dutch name. I hope that is correct.

I think he's Polish(?) so yeah I think it's probably pronounced with a y sound.

I agree with others about Niju, and I think she is also worthy of my vote in the future, as is Simon (his mid-active-ness plus Golden's points about him, let us not forget.) Also Lorab pointed out Mac and I'm definitely wondering about him.

One other thing that gives me slight pause -- people have brought up that Epi probably doctors the teams when distributing roles, and he put MP and Daisy together as two out of three of a baddie team, despite presumably being aware that they were both extremely busy IRL. Perhaps he still expected them to be dedicated players especially if on a baddie team together, and I think (correct me if I'm wrong) he was pretty unfamiliar with at least Jan and Dunny as players, and may have hoped they would be more active to begin with? (Jan at least was for a little while and then disappeared

)

Idk, this train of thought keeps going around in circles and will most likely not get me anywhere. But I'm starting to have a hunch Jan is the slightly more likely choice. I'm voting for him and Dunny.

The thing with Bullzeye is that he's usually a fairly engaged player, and I kinda feel like for him to not have come back he must have just forgotten about or abandoned the game somehow, which seems unlikely if he were on a baddie team. His few posts from the beginning of the game were expressing regret that he was unable to keep up with the game, and it just strikes me as more likely that he had a vanilla civ role and never got into caring about the game. Hope he's ok irl

The fact that the last YT kill was Night 6 (thanks for clearing that up Quin) doesn't really change much for me, since Daisy posted once on Day 6 and could have sent in a kill despite having no idea what was going on, and her teamie could still be one of those people inactive since before then. So I think I'll still vote for some two of them (probably not bullz).

Wow I didn't realize it had been that long since the YTs killed. I'm all for voting for any combination of those four then.

Oh, also, I agree about indiglo -- I said I thought sig was likely to be YT but I took that back when I saw she'd replaced him, and found her first post pretty genuine. I do think it is worth ratting out their (hopefully) last member (you'd think if they had a recruit they would have someone more active by now); unfortunately the inactive pool is still fairly big to choose from -- Dunny, Bullzeye, Jan, and Leetic.

Actually, when did the YTs kill last? If Spacedaisy actually wasn't around at all for several days like she said, depending on when their last kill was it might not be one of those entirely inactive players, maybe someone who's been around now and then like Simon or Niju. Idk. Someone should figure this out.

Everyone keeps saying to specifically vote for Dunny since Zuo Ci is so gung-Zuo about him though, and I'd be fine putting one of my votes there regardless. I don't entirely trust Zuo Ci nor think he necessarily has information but I feel like we should be taking his input at least somewhat seriously.

Scotty wrote:
DFaraday wrote:
Scotty wrote: Wait, where was this canon? I don't think we know that at all. Did I miss something?
D'oh, you're right. Given that he voted decisively in MP's lynch and was killed by the Nanman, I just got it into my head that he was civ.
I mean I also think he was civ, but one can never be certain.

Zuo Ci doesn't like Dunny. Should we vote with him today? I could do that.

Hey @SLOONEI!! Where are you brother? I could vote you as well. I think the Nanman is someone that is talking, but is barely talking. Ya dig? Someone that could still have the mindedness to send in kills (of low posters, as Golden has pointed out). Ah, but here's the rub...they killed GOLDEN who was not a low poster. So maybe they're getting nervous.

If I had to vote right now, it would be for LoRab and Dunny. But I could just as easily vote for Sloonei.

The YTs are the ones that kill low posters. The nanman have always killed high posters. I feel lucky to still be alive

Whoops, missed the replacement, hi indi!
To answer some of your questions:
- Zuo Ci is a sock that posted a fair amount in the last day period and also voted. Interesting if he's still around today. IIRC Daisy's flipped role is the one that "summons apparitions" and someone had a theory that he was one such apparition? Or maybe the theory was that the other sock we encountered earlier (who only posted in Chinese) was that and Zuo Ci is from another role, but I don't remember.
- I don't quite understand your question about baddie recruitment. We know of an indie role that recruits, but we don't know about the baddie teams for sure -- though I have stated that I think it's a strong possibility that the YTs have recruiting ability since they started with fewer players than Nanman and are full of secrets. I think based on the wording of your question, unless you know something we don't about the baddie teams

, you're referring to the indie role -- looks like he is limited to recruiting one warrior from each kingdom.
- We have been generally dueling the two top baddie suspects. There has been much discourse since the beginning of the game about the "winner" strategy given the winner gets a prize, and some players (notably Bass) have confidently volunteered themselves to duel, but we've been voting based on suspicion and have so far never had a shortage of candidates to pit against each other

Oh no RIP Golden

Great result with Daisy!

I'm probably looking to vote for Sig again today, I think it's fairly likely he's the third YT.

Siding as usual with golden, voting for sig and daisy but am also pretty supportive of dunny and lorab votes.

I found her pursuals of glorf and Mac distasteful because of how tunnely/closeminded she was. It felt wrong. I agree on your other points and would be down to vote for her. I think she's kind of slipped by a lot and could very well be bad.

Golden wrote:Am I correct in labelling the following people as absent (as in, not posting or voting for at least ten days)

Bullzeye
Dunny
Jan
Leetic
Nerolunar
sig
Spacedaisy

Nero was replaced by Mata.

Golden wrote:I'm not sure, exactly, but I think so. Zuo Ci has some posts from before we revealed Jay's identity, which I think were possibly Epignosis. Did you notice that it was Zuo Ci who revealed Jay's role, not Epignosis? And that this created a change from speaking in normal type to Italics. It's someone who has enough flair to roleplay - someone whose suspects align to those of Jay - and someone who specifically called out my 'disdain for prefects', which I think was done intentionally (by Jay) to make me realise the real identity.

Of course, this is just my opinion, but I currently think that Zuo Ci is Jay. I don't know if it's Jay come back to take part in the game on his own account though. It's possible that he represents the dead generally and that (for instance) the people he voted for yesterday were those who got the most votes from among the dead.

Huh, interesting observations.

Scotty wrote:
Golden wrote:Am I correct in labelling the following people as absent (as in, not posting or voting for at least ten days)

Bullzeye
Dunny
Jan
Leetic
Nerolunar
sig
Spacedaisy
What's your point?

Golden wrote:In this game nutella has lynched every successfully lynched member of the nanmans, and only one looks like a potential bus (the rest she seems on quite early). MP of the yellow turbans was out for her blood from the start until his death.

So why should we be out to get her? Doesn't that look like someone who is the definition of most likely not to be bad?
So? She voted for Wilgy Day 1. So did MM. I think Wilgy was looking to fight because he was a warrior.
Day 2, she votes right before the deadline as the useless 10th vote on Mm. She had no part in the creation of that lynch. Even if she had voted for Russ, with 8 votes, Mm would still have dueled. So that vote alone does nothing for Cred.
Day 3 is a wash because IIRC almost all the people with more than 3 votes have been revealed to be civ. So she could have voted for Stalin and we wouldn't have lynched him.
Day 4- now this is the one I go back and forth on. She votes Bass and Russ, to push votes ahead of MP, essentially giving Mp 2 more outs to not duel. From a perspective of Nutella being on YT, this vote is a save for sure. But you are correct that it is far unliklier that MP would throw her under the bus that early. This is the second day in a row that he votes for her, but at the end of the day, she didn't vote him. So... I think the case is still there that Mp WOULD do something like that but who really knows. I'd expect her to be a Nanman right now over YT.
Day 5- she votes in the middle of the pack on DP (a mislynch I started, unfortunately) and Caps. No info there.
Day 6- she basically saves Bass (who I don't think is bad) and votes DDL to tie the vote and pushes ahead Caps. Both are confirmed good now. Since I don't think Bass is bad, I don't see this vote as damning at all, since both of the forementioned players had reasonable suspicion I guess..
Day 7- but then doubles back and votes early for Bass and DDL. I thought she had not suspected Bass, or was she would have voted him yesterday, right? Or did I miss something? I haven't reread her reasoning on voting bass day 4, saving him on day 6 and doubling back on day 7. It's as if she's more carefree with her votes there
Day 8- now that's a risky vote if she is Nanman. 2nd vote on a low-voting day for INH. She also voted early, so it would be hard to save if need be. This does look like a positive look for her, so I'll give you that. It's not unheard of to bus a teammate if they look to be garnering attention, but she wasn't really. I'll ponder this one.
Day 9- she is the 5th vote on INH, and honestly does nothing for me. No one else had but 1 vote at the time of her voting, and INH was a foregone conclusion to be dueling with the amount of participation we've been having.

Also she's voted me like 3 times which I'm not bitter about....

Day 8 looks the best, but it only give me slight pause. Even a bad person votes for teammates at some point.

I was very enthusiastic about voting for Wilgy and MM -- in fact, I was one of the first people to support JJJ's case against MM and pursued that route pretty strongly for all of D2. Just because my vote was fairly late doesn't mean it was weak.

In the MP lynch I was legitimately convinced he was good and suspected Russ and Bass more at that point so that is how I voted. And yeah, I flipflopped on Bass several times, I still have been recently. He's been rather enigmatic.

And have I really voted for you 3 times? Huh. I don't even remember all my votes

I am not bad (nor indie for that matter). You continue to wave around this suspicion of me with nothing substantial to back it up, and now that you're actually looking at my record I hope you're finding that your suspicion is misguided.

Scotty wrote: I would like to give it to Nutella but once again, people seem to trust her (or at least trust her more than others) enough to not vote her.

If anyone does trust her, I'm just curious as to what leads you to that conclusion. Because it's surely not her voting record.

What do you mean by this? What's wrong with my voting record? I mean, it hasn't been perfect since we've lynched a ton of civs, but I don't see why you would find it particularly suspicious. Do you have a specific team (or indie role) in mind for me? What is your reasoning?

He said he suspected me so clearly not

Wait what where did zuo ci say he knows who everyone is? huh??

Golden wrote:I had to vote.

Scotty because I suspect him.

INH over sig because INH already has a vote.

Feel the disdain for prefects! It is real!

Ditto

Hi Mata, Niju is a she

. But you're right, she hasn't been playing much. I'd be happy to vote for any combination of her, Scotty, sig, and INH. Maybe Dom too but he's a bit lower on my list atm.

Oh yeah TH is dead lol. Good one Quin

Quin, I'm not sure why you think I'm "potential nanman," and to be honest I don't really understand how you arrived at most of your list (I kind of get the Dom and TH part I guess). Could you elaborate? What makes you think I could be nanman based on those posts and taking my voting record into account?

Huh ok, good to know JJJ was a civ.

Voting glorf

Sloonei wrote:These are all players who were nightkilled and whose roles are unrevealed. If that is the case I would suspect that this does mean we're revealing somebody's role. And in that case, it would be wise to vote a player around whom there is suspicion.

hmm, this is an interesting perspective. Since we don't know what it is I'm inclined to err on the side of voting someone I trust more (Glorfindel) rather than someone I think may have been bad (JJJ) but idk

also, if it does end up being a rez there is still possibility of recruitment

but I am inclined to go for Glorf or Rico since I trust them the most

I'm kind of uncomfortable voting for bass again since he presumably just got a prize and is so eager to duel again. I feel like he is not supporting the civ cause, whether deliberately or inadvertently I'm not sure. I'm going back to voting for Russ since he's sort of been forgotten and is slipping by. I'll put my other vote on INH.

Damn. :\

At airport. voting DDL and Bass.

Scotty, have you stated why you're considering voting for me? I'm curious.

Starting today my activity is probably going to drop a bit until Tuesday (I'm going to San Francisco for a big linguistic/speech-processing-studies conference where I'll be presenting a research paper from my internship

and I think I'll be pretty occupied for most of the time). Due to my flight this afternoon I'll have to vote a couple hours before the deadline; at this point it seems likely to go to DDL and quite possibly Bass.

Sloonei wrote:I do think there is merit to Bass's line of suspicion. It's fair to speculate that a vocal player alive this late in the game might be left alive this long because they're the ones doing the killing. BUT we also have two scum teams, and it's also never a surefire thing that scums will just pick off the most vocal players one-by-one. There is more strategy to the game than that. That said, I understand where he is coming from and, based on the tone of his posts, I feel like it is coming from a genuine place.

That said, I also am still town-reading Quin, based on tone and content of his posts throughout the game. I am not inclined to vote for either of them right now.

I mostly agree with this post, but I am significantly more suspicious of Bass now than I was earlier today. His responses have been unsatisfying especially in regards to why he singled out Quin and not DDL -- he has now said DDL is his other vote as if it was obvious, now that I have brought it up multiple times, yet he has never directly responded to any of my multiple questions to him.

Quin wrote:

Apologies for not highlighting or it or anything, I'm phone posting - but why do you not expect bass to be a yellow turban?

Sorry, didn't see this until you mentioned you had asked me something. I posted that a while ago so I don't remember my exact thought process, but it just didn't make sense to me for bass to be a YT. Maybe because of the killing low posters thing, and maybe because I can't see him being MP's teammate.

Also just saw you say something about wondering if I am DDL and Bass's teammate. What the heck is up with that?

That's entirely fair. Tbh I've been pretty back-and-forth on Scotty all game and this just set me off.

The main weird thing is his paragraph about Golden. It's like, he totally failed a spot check there. I don't know what thread he was reading to interpret Golden's posts that way.

hmm that link might not work for you since I have 20ppp and the url relies on that, but I'm not really sure how to fix it. but it's scotty's second to last post in his iso

Here's the one. Check out Golden's reply to get the full story

Sloonei wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:
Golden wrote:
Bass_the_Clever wrote:I have no problem dueling it's probably going to happen anyway. All I ask is if I can duel Quinn .
You seem very sure on Quin, but I don't really understand why. Is it just because you don't like the way he presented his suspicion on you, or are there other things that he has done?
Like I said its started as gut read then it might have became an obsession. I might be wrong, but I'm sticking to my guns.
Again, this does not really answer anything. Until you provide more substantial reasons, this looks like you just pulled Quin's name out of a hat.

Seriously this. Bass, please elaborate on why you've picked Quin, and especially for the remark about high posters getting killed -- DDL has even more posts than Quin, and you have not even mentioned him. Why did you specify Quin and not DDL in that post? Do you already know why DDL hasn't been killed yet -- are you perhaps on that team together? Also, what are your opinions about the next few highest posters: Sloonei, myself, and Scotty? If you continue to refuse to actually satisfactorily answer any questions addressed to you, I might just stop giving you the benefit of the doubt and vote for you.

linki @ Sloonei, that post was about Scotty, not simon, sorry for confusion. I'd like you to check out the post of Scotty's I'm referring to.

Sloonei wrote:
Golden wrote:
Sloonei wrote:
Golden wrote:Pretty sure nutella isn't bad, and she has already posted pretty good evidence as to why.

Also, I agree with the green DF read.

The only places I read nutella's list and felt disagreement were russti and lorab. I have russti as town, and I don't trust lorab quite as much (but wouldn't say she is a big suspect either).
Who do you feel most inclined to vote for today and why?
Scotty and simon, because they seem most bad.
I remember the gist of the Simon case and could get behind that. I've seen no reason to suspect Scotty in this game. And I should remind everyone that I am certified as a professional Baddie Scotty Finder.

What do you think of his most recent post (technically second most recent, but meaning the substantial one) and Golden's rebuttals to it? I haven't particularly suspected Scotty much, but that post was full of stuff that seemed bizarrely out of touch.

Yeah I could have put Lorab a tier or so down. I might have a tendency to be too forgiving/wanting to trust her, and her behavior has been kind of off in that she's been really stubborn about everything this game.

Sloonei wrote:
nutella wrote:Also, I don't think my list was entirely non-controversial or "hivemind." My BOTD/neutral read on Bass is pretty unique at this point, and perhaps my trust of Eloh, at least given your recent theory.
Why's DFaraday looking so green? And could you elaborate on the DDL suspicion for me? I'm hypothetically on board, but I've got very little to substantiate my read at this point.

I've just found DF to be pretty typical/civ-like in general. His contributions have been decent and agreeable in a good way.
I don't really have much to substantiate the DDL read either, tbh. Mostly his tunneling on Mac has gotten really out of hand to the point of being counterproductive.

Sloonei wrote:I'm glad to see we're still being vaguely suspicious of Nutella.

Why?

Honestly, the current stuff going on with Bass is swaying me to the side of suspecting him more. I've been giving him the BOTD because I didn't find anything particularly suspicious in his ISO, but his inability to explain why he's singled out Quin is getting on my nerves. He's moving down to the darker part of my list.

Also, I don't think my list was entirely non-controversial or "hivemind." My BOTD/neutral read on Bass is pretty unique at this point, and perhaps my trust of Eloh, at least given your recent theory.

MacDougall wrote:Nutella's rainbow list is entirely non controversial, hivemind and his placement of himself on it is an old school ping.

If I am a bad enough read to be that low on your list then let's discuss. Ain't felt suspicion from you all game so why have you been hiding your feelings towards me?

First of all, I'm a she. You should be able to tell that from (a) the "female" indication on the side of every post I make, and (b) all the other times people have referred to me in the third person in this game -- tbh that kinda shows me you haven't been reading much.

Second, why is it "an old school ping" to put myself at the top of my list? It's a sort of jokey, light hearted thing that I've seen people do in rainbow lists tons of times. Quite commonplace and no reason to be suspicious of it.

Third, well, you're in that section because I feel pretty unsure of you and I've waffled a bit mostly due to DDL's admittedly manipulative/threatening campaign against you -- there have been plenty of times reading his posts when I've been nearly convinced to vote for you, but I distrust him just enough and I've liked your defenses just enough to keep you some BOTD. Still, you're on the lower-neutral section of my list because I could easily consider voting for you sometime in the near future. There have been aspects of your participation/style that I haven't liked (sort of akin to Lorab's reasons), and again, although I found your demonstration of distance from both baddie teams rather convincing, they were both very early in the game and I have not at all discounted the possibility of recruitment.

Let's give the thread some color.

nutella

Quin
Sloonei
DFaraday
Elohcin
Golden
Boomslang
LoRab
Dom
Jan
Nerolunar Matahari
nijuukyugou
Bass_the_Clever
Bullzeye (wtf is he in this game?? was he replaced and I missed it, because he should have been...)
Dunny (also wtf??)
leetic (???????)
Spacedaisy
Scotty
sig
Simon
Sorsha
MacDougall
insertnamehere
Dragon D. Luffy
Russtifinko

key:
practically perfect in every way
probs good yo I trust 'em
meh/neutral, maybe very slight lean good
not playing so no idea
could probs be bad, I would vote for them
most likely to get my vote? maybe? idk really

this is pretty subject to change honestly

MacDougall wrote:
Quin wrote:
MacDougall wrote:Also possible that Elohcin is Lu Bu and selected a faction that she discovered Sorsha was part of.
This also seems counter productive.
Okay facts:

Elohcin infodumped intel on Sorsha being bad.
Elohcin has abruptly stopped seeking Sorsha's lynch.

There is at least 1 recruitment role in the game. There is also a role that can join a faction.

Give me a better explanation for why she did the former.

Also explain you are so vociferous in your defense of her.

Mac, your conspiracy theory is interesting and all, but I think you're missing one key possibility. I also initially read Eloh as hinting at having info, but then someone else said that they saw it as a forced vote, and I think that makes sense. If Eloh was forced to vote for Sorsha and/or TH on that day and wasn't allowed to say so, it would certainly explain why she didn't further pursue Sorsha -- and honestly I think the fact that she pretty clearly avoided mentioning Sorsha the next day looked to me like she was trying to confirm the force-vote theory. You could be right, but I seriously doubt that if she was recruited she would so obviously suddenly stop naming Sorsha, she'd probably back off more slowly. I think her unexplained vote combined with the abrupt abandonment makes a lot more sense as a forced vote.

Scotty's post about Golden indeed didn't make any sense, and is full of empty accusations. Maybe he just wasn't paying much attention before saying some of those things but it was kinda painful to read.

I'm not quite sure where I stand on DDL vs. Mac, honestly either or both of them could be bad for all I know, but at the moment I'm still leaning toward suspecting DDL a little more. He's tunneling so relentlessly on Mac with so little reasoning, and I can easily see Mac as genuine -- especially his defenses against the likelihood of him being on each baddie team were pretty convincing, my only reservation in regards to that is, again, the possibility of recruitment (both of his defenses were based on opinions from very early in the game, so for example if I'm right that the YTs have a recruit they could have recruited Mac after he went after MP early on). But yeah, at the moment I'm finding Mac a lot more believable than DDL.

RIP Rey and sorry Caps.

Didn't realize we'd have to wait another day... frankly I wish we hadn't because the days/deadlines would have worked out better for me the way they were due to my schedule later this week, but oh well.

linki: Mata! I feel like I haven't seen her around in ages.

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