The Syndicate

Wow what a game.

....Well okay then. Good luck civvies. And I guess good luck with whatever your mysterious win condition is Epi. :suspicious:

Neither my suspicion of splints nor my rainbow list are contrived, they reflect my actual beliefs. I can't say much more as there are two minutes remaining to break the tie, but I hope you make the right choice. And I hope we catch a baddie in Neverwhere.

Seems Golden really wants to have a tie. :hmm:

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:I'd have preferred it if nutella hadn't gone *poof* right after gaining a little support.

Hey hey, I'm still here, just had an errand to run. Glad to see I might get another chance. I'm totally down to jump on a Neverwhere lynch, and it'll break this horrendous tie, so I'll go for it.

Well I see that no matter how much I try to defend myself I can't sway you guys from your tunnel vision. This always happens to me as a civ, I'm just so terrible at defending myself Just like when I was Jacob in Biblical mafia and everyone mistakenly thought I was bad for a while. It's pretty frustrating that nothing I say will ever be taken seriously. And no one (besides Spacedaisy, thanks) ever considers my play in previous games to see that this is unfortunately how I usually am as a civ. But I wish the rest of the civvies good luck in winning this game, we had a good streak toward the beginning but now we keep lynching good guys. Once again I will recommend looking for the baddies in Neverwhere, DFaraday, Splints, possibly Metalmarsh and I'd even consider a corrupted Sloonei. Good luck.

Sloonei, what do you think of Spacedaisy reading me as my usual town self? Considering she has played with me before lots of times and you never have.

It's not brown, it's.. like a.... goldenrod.

Although Gumshoe mysteriously disappeared (seriously, does anyone know how to contact him and make sure he's alive? ) I had a very civ read on him when he was around. Whereas I wouldn't be surprised if Devin was one of the inactive baddies.

As for you, sir, I don't think you've been your civ self since you replaced back in. I believe you are an indie.

Sloonei
Golden
JJJ
SVS
Spacedaisy

Gumshoe
Niju (putting her in the middle because I was suspicious of her but am inclined to trust Golden and can see her as civ)

Devin
Epignosis
Metalmarsh

Neverwhere
DFaraday
Fingersplints

Sloonei wrote:

nutella wrote:Hmm thanks for the insight on MM, Daisy. You've drawn attention to some weird behavior that I wouldn't have caught otherwise. I look forward to his response.

Do you care to comment on any of the votes that have been cast against you?

I already commented on the first two, and I don't think I'm going to get an explanation from Golden.

Hmm thanks for the insight on MM, Daisy. You've drawn attention to some weird behavior that I wouldn't have caught otherwise. I look forward to his response.

Here is the post from Sloonei I was referring to. At the time he made this post, everyone was talking about Cobalt, LC, Bubbles, TH, it was a very mishmash day and in this post he definitely sounds concerned that Sig had fallen out of discussion and he is asking if anyone else was interested in pursuing him, and I replied that I was.

JJJ - I was just going by memory so I'm sorry I didn't get the details quite right. I guess it was Night 1 when I first said that LC sounded fishy to me, and I waffled on him a bit. My comment about being uncertain about G-man was alluding to his annoying image-posting and then excessive-randomizer-posting, which I initially found to just be annoying and not indicative of his being bad, but I gradually became more suspicious of him as he refused to defend himself or participate in any meaningful way. As for BR, I was hesitant toward her for a while, largely because I agreed with her regarding Bass, but by the day she was lynched she looked more and more bad to me.

And regarding Sloonei -- I remember him at some point having to re-introduce the possibility of lynching sig back into the thread and asking if people would be on board with it, and I replied that I was on board with it. I may have misinterpreted the context of that, I'll look for the post I was thinking of

I hope this answers your questions -- bottom line is my memory for detail in mafia games is pretty abysmal (kind of weird since my memory for details in general is otherwise amazing but for some reason mafia is full of blind spots for me)

I went pretty hard after LC, G-man, and Sig. Maybe my way of "going hard after" people is not the same as someone like sloonei or JJJ, but that's just a style difference, I'm not the type to make big long cases. It's good to have people like that around who do ISOs all the time so I can interpret them with my own perspective, but what I mean is that I strongly suspected those individuals and supported lynching them, and I did so by repeatedly saying I was suspicious of them in my contributions to keep them both in my mental list and in the thread discussion. I started saying LC was pinging me back on Day 1, like before anyone else suspected him. I was one of the first to agree with Sloonei's case on Sig, and kept bringing up his name when everyone else ignored it. I was less sure of Gman at first but became solidly convinced and ready to lynch him around the same time we were lynching LC. Again with BR I was skeptical at first but by the day she got lynched I was pretty suspicious of her. Admittedly I probably went harder against Bass than any of these baddies, and that was a mistaken suspicion, but we can't always be right. And I can't be sure that I'm right about you, but it looks like you're enjoying having some of the heat pushed off of you and onto me. Dare I say... opportunistic?

Sloonei wrote:Who do you think has arbitrarily voted for you, Nutella, and why?

Well obviously splints and niju, as they have just voted for me. Both of them just kind of tagged along to my name being discussed and said something like "ehh I guess I'll go ahead and put my vote on nutella" without giving any actual reason. Niju in particular was like "oh I'll either vote for splints or nutella, hmm what the heck let's go with nutella" that is the definition of arbitrary right there.

@Splints that's because my reasons for you are pretty much those cases, and particularly your voting record. I think your behaviors toward LC and BR were potentially teammate-ish. I know you have defended at least regarding BR.

fingersplints wrote:I don't understand why Golden trusts nijuu. I still find her suspicious.

My vote will probably go to Nutella. She kept saying about how she was waiting for my responses but when I asked she didn't bother to respond with what specifically she wanted me to respond with. For that reason I don't believe that she really suspects me but that she is going with that suspicion because it is convenient. And she has already backed off some so if I am lynched she can say that she was reconsidering it.

When I saw that you asked, I was planning to respond by showing you the *cough* two very detailed cases on you that you somehow missed, but alas I was about to leave work and as you know I didn't come back to the thread until after the lynch and saw that you had already responded to some of it, so I let it go for the time being, but now since it is day again and I have reposted the link to JJJ's original ISO of you I would really like you to go back and respond to those points as well as Niju's in more detail.

Spacedaisy wrote:I want feedback on MM because frankly he has me feeling all kinds of bad vibes right now.

Ninja Splints and LA, what are your opinions of MM please?

Honestly I haven't been paying too much attention to him because I had been getting a pretty town read from him since early in the game, but I don't want to dismiss the possibility he's bad and am open to examining him. Anything particular from his posts that you find suspicious?


It looks like people are kind of arbitrarily deciding to vote for me without any actual case against me, and this is making me uneasy as we really can't afford to lynch more civvies. Please give me something concrete to defend against. And again, look at my voting record/major suspects -- I have gone hard after members of both baddie teams. What is the logic here.

RIP Canuck. WB Sloonei. I'll take your suggestion and vote for my top suspect which is still Splints.
Since Golden appears to be silenced, are you still going to push heavily for a Niju lynch without hearing his side of things? He seemed to have reason to trust her, and I'm inclined to trust what he says.

Here is JJJ's original ISO of splints which shows that her voting record would fit with her being on Wildhorn

I am genuine about the suspicion. I've just never happened to vote for her, as I have ended up voting for others that I suspected just as strongly or more (or in the case of yesterday, missing the vote). I am absolutely willing to vote for her and probably would have yesterday if I had been here.

And like I have said numerous times before, yes I waffle in how strongly I suspect people, yes I am wishy-washy, yes I become doubtful and hedge around a lot because I don't want to get overconfident and lynch more civvies than we already have. But Splints grew into one of my stronger suspicions of this game thus far, and that's why I keep bringing her up, because I don't want her to fall out of discussion.

As for my reasons for suspecting her, I honestly don't remember who made the initial case a few days ago, but it was strong enough to put her on my short list, and then you (Niju) only added credence to the case, showing how she was "opportunistic" (whatever the heck that overused word even means anymore) and her interactions with BR etc. I may try to find the older case (maybe it was JJJ? idk) and re-examine it in light of her current defenses. She did sound genuine in her last few posts/defenses which is why I am more hesitant now, but I still can't really think of anyone I suspect more than her at this point.

Oh my god I can't believe I fucked up AGAIN. Just like the other time, I was saving my vote for when I got back from work, and then immediately got distracted by friends (we went to see Ant-Man which was HILARIOUS). So sorry I missed it. I honestly can't say for sure whether I would have ended up going for Hedge or Splints. I see Splints finally actually defended herself, I still have an eye on her but am not as confident.

Oh wow the case on Hedge is a really really strong one. I think she and splints are both very likely to be on wildhorn. So I'll vote for one of them but I'll wait to see if splints comes back to defend. (Or Hedge too but she seems not to be around?)

Golden, I'm not on team webber. I was highly suspicious of both Sig and Gman by the time each was lynched, and I was fairly vocal about it. For Sig, I may have been on the late side to get to the actual vote, but I had been repeating his name as a suspect for a long time -- I think I was one of the first people to tag onto the case someone (sloonei?) initially made and encouraged pursuing him for a while. For G-man, at first he was just annoying but by the day LC was lynched I was fully convinced that both were bad and wanted to lynch both asap.

fingersplints wrote:I haven't felt up to playing much and was worried I missed a lot, but I see no one else has been around much either. I think I have missed what cleared nijuu for Golden, but that's not surprising since I usually miss even the most obvious hints and stuff.

glad to see we got at least one replacement for the inactives. I feel bad for Daisy as this is probably a lot to catch up on, but I am glad to have her. Hope she can give some thoughts soon

hopefully will be around more later

Do you have anything to say regarding the points several people have made against you?

RIP Scotty, welcome Daisy!

I was never silenced -- did I really not post for a whole day? I know I was busy/MIA that day and missed the vote completely by accident, but I wasn't silenced.

Where is the challenge?

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

nutella wrote:JJJ has interesting thoughts on DF as well

Please highlight the thoughts you found interesting in a 5-minute span.

Okay, yes I skimmed it, because it came up while I was posting, but I chose to comment because I thought he was a good name to bring up and from my skim you had some good points about him regarding LC, his vote record, and his generally "safe" play so far (I really agree especially with that since he's totally blended in).

linki: well I admit I hadn't actually examined the actual vote order, I had just noticed that there was a big push for niju at the end but that bass was still lynched and I drew a false conjecture. Or the teammate saw that niju had suspicion and decided to go with the other popular suspicion to be safe. But again at this point I'm really not assuming that niju's bad, so this is all ridiculous speculation.

Ninja's defenses keep reading genuine to me, so I'm going back and forth on her and right now thinking she's more likely civvie. As for my comment about her teammate(s) piling on, I realized if she's bad she almost certainly only has one teammate, but I still think that if so then that player could possibly be one of the last Bass votes. But yeah it's not enough to make that a reason to suspect her further.

Right now I am more interested in lynching Splints, the case on her just gets more and more solid. JJJ has interesting thoughts on DF as well, DF has totally blended into the background for me and I could see him either way.

God damn it


@Scotty: Can you explain why this makes you think either I or splints is bad? I don't understand the reasoning there. Suspecting Bass doesn't make me bad, it makes me a civ who misguidedly wanted to lynch someone who was acting suspicious as hell. But if you have legitimate reason to suspect Splints I'd be happy to pursue her further.

I am also happy with a Niju lynch tomorrow. I think it is likely that her teammates piled onto the Bass vote.

Dom wrote:The trivia game will be unlike Epig's. I will make a list of questions, and the first to answer all correctly wins. And the second. And the third.

Will you give advance notice of when the challenge will be posted? Time-based advantages bother me

Oh since it's a changeable vote day I'll go ahead and place mine on Bass. Not sure how I feel about splints right now, I thought the case on her was really strong and her defenses are ok but not stellar, so I've still got a big eye on her.

Another survival! Glad you made it, Scotty.

I'm definitely interested in lynching Bass today, or maybe splints -- still need to hear more from her.

Scotty wrote:Oh never, don't go! We need your input!

If you do, it would be a shame for sure

In other news, it would appear the singer may have been killed or just forgot to submit their thoughts last night.

Huh? I thought the singer was in the last night post?

Damn, that sucks.

Yeah, I guess I would feel bad voting her now since the case just came up and she hasn't gotten a chance to defend. Besides it's getting close and there's probably not going to be much more discussion. Gonna vote cobalt.

Scotty wrote:8/18 votes an hour before deadline. This is just sad, people

Why? I like to wait until the last hour or so if I can. I like to make as informed a decision as possible. I get the sentiment though, there has been too much inactivity this game :/

Okay, so there are pretty strong cases that Bass, Cobalt, and Splints are bad. Bass and Cobalt look like they'd be on Team Webber, and Splints looks like Team Wildhorn. At this point I'm feeling about equally confident in all three cases, so I'm relatively equally willing to lynch any of the three. My inclination is, because tonight is Wildhorn's kill, that it should be priority today to vote for Splints. But when I think about it, she's probably not the last member of the team, there is probably one more left, so it's not like lynching her would prevent the kill, right? So actually the order doesn't really matter... whatever, I will be voting for one of the three, and it looks like Cobalt is the most likely at this point. Just wondering if anyone else had this thought though -- I find the Splints case really very compelling, and if there is much of a chance that she's the last member left, it would behoove us to get rid of her before the even night. But as it stands that doesn't seem super likely and I'd be happy to lynch Cobalt as well.

Canucklehead wrote:I actually think that was a pretty great defense by Ninjigglypuff.
But now I don't know who to vote for.

IM SO CONFLICTED

Same yo. Niju's defense is definitely giving me pause, but I don't know who I even suspect anymore :\

Sounds to me like Epig is an indie with his own win condition. o_O

Oh no, RIP Timmer I fully trusted he was a civvie and his loss shall be avenged. Right now I am most interested in pursuing a Niju lynch -- Sloonei had a pretty strong case for her being on mafia 1 I believe.

JaggedJimmyJay wrote:

nutella wrote:JJJ, I'll address your case when I can. But it seems like most of your points are just about my views being inconsistent, which again I openly admit is the case and again I insist does not mean I am bad. My views are always inconsistent. I'll reread your post later and see if you have actual points I can address but for now I think you are making your case out to be stronger than it is. I was fully supportive of all the baddie lynches so far, from both teams. I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time.

I encourage you to go over it when you have time. Inconsistency is one theme I think (most importantly as it pertains to Long Con), but it isn't the only thing that troubled me.

Okay, so I read over it again and the other main point seems to be the Bubbles thing. Incidentally one of the posts you quote is actually by Neverwhere, not me... Anyway, I made it pretty clear that I didn't want to jump right into suspecting Bubbles independently, my suspicion of her was completely dependent on LC flipping bad because I saw what looked like possible teammate behavior between them. I think there were plenty of other people who pushed the Bubbles suspicion further and were more responsible for her lynch, though I was certainly complacent in it. Again, I was very hesitant at first but by the day we lynched her she was really looking like a cornered baddie.

Some of your points are just about my Day 1 uncertainty in general, which I have already said is perfectly normal.

I'm unclear on the points some parts of your post are trying to make, like the part about the Sig vote. I honestly don't get your analysis there. Can you explain that one? And the TH thing, what? In the post you quote I was simply asking TH if he had actually wanted me to respond to something. I'm not going to automatically defensively respond to any little time someone mentions my name in passing, because it's healthy to be on some people's public lists, but if he had actually addressed me a question or something more elaborate and I missed it, I wanted to make sure.

And my Bass suspicion was more of a gut read, but when I mentioned he was "waffling on LC" I meant that as a direct criticism of that one particular post by him. IMO there is a HUGE difference between "waffling" on someone on a wider scale in the course of a few days and actually changing your tune on someone within a single post. Sure my opinions change over time, and my posts every time I check in reflect how my views stand at the time, but they are internally consistent. But when someone within a SINGLE post addresses a popular suspicion, says it might have some merit, and then carefully hedges around it to absolve the person right away, that looks really bad.

Linki: How did my claiming to be a clueless civ cause Bubbles to be lynched? What?
I'm honestly not sure who I suspect most right now. I'm afraid the baddies are hiding in the people who don't stand out as much, like Niju and Hedge, maybe splints. Going to look at them again.

Scotty wrote:

nutella wrote:Fuck, I screwed up and missed the vote. Bus was backed up in traffic on my way back from work and I went straight to having dinner with friends and forgot it was ending. So sorry. I probably would have actually gone for BR because I've been becoming more and more convinced by Timmer's case on her in the last couple days. Great to see she was indeed bad! Merrily roll along in hell

JJJ, I'll address your case when I can. But it seems like most of your points are just about my views being inconsistent, which again I openly admit is the case and again I insist does not mean I am bad. My views are always inconsistent. I'll reread your post later and see if you have actual points I can address but for now I think you are making your case out to be stronger than it is. I was fully supportive of all the baddie lynches so far, from both teams. I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time.

I'm not buying you didn't have enough time to vote. It's an even day. You can change votes. You can placehold. We all have commitments, but 48 hours is a while to be gone, especially since you were active on Monday.

"My views are always inconsistent."
You sound like you're proud of that.

"I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time."
The most mafia sounding thing I've heard you say so far.

And hey JJJ! Glad to have you! I'm glad you're reading into we who haven't really been taking much heat. Can't wait to hear what you have to say about splints and I!

I missed the vote, honest, plain and simple. I would never deliberately skip a vote. I do admit I hadn't remembered it was a changeable-vote day, and I typically like to wait until close to the end to vote, so I was planning to vote when I got back from work, but I got distracted and forgot.

I'm not necessarily "proud" that my views are inconsistent, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing either. I think it can be equally or more harmful to have tunnel vision and doggedly pursue the same suspects over and over without reconsidering from time to time. Maybe I'm just forgiving to a fault but I like to give people second chances to prove themselves, and unless something really strongly convinces me that someone is bad, my reads are usually tentative and not unshakeable.

And why is that so mafia sounding? It's true. Civvies tend to have less idea of what's going on. My role doesn't offer me much extra insight into the game, so I have to go by thread content, which is constantly in flux.

Fuck, I screwed up and missed the vote. Bus was backed up in traffic on my way back from work and I went straight to having dinner with friends and forgot it was ending. So sorry. I probably would have actually gone for BR because I've been becoming more and more convinced by Timmer's case on her in the last couple days. Great to see she was indeed bad! Merrily roll along in hell

JJJ, I'll address your case when I can. But it seems like most of your points are just about my views being inconsistent, which again I openly admit is the case and again I insist does not mean I am bad. My views are always inconsistent. I'll reread your post later and see if you have actual points I can address but for now I think you are making your case out to be stronger than it is. I was fully supportive of all the baddie lynches so far, from both teams. I'm just a civvie who doesn't really know what's going on most of the time.

Also TinyBubbles was lynched... she's on the death list but she's also still on the alive list and on the poll...

Welcome back SVS -- I and a couple others (BR maybe?) have been somewhat suspicious of TH mostly because of his quietness/style at the beginning, but since he seemed to actually disappear I'm willing to chalk that up to his not being fully available to play. Still definitely doesn't get you a free pass in my eyes but I'm giving you a fresh chance.

RIP Sloonei

Interested in the niju case. Also fairly willing to go along with a BR or Cobalt lynch, but I'm still kinda hesitant about them both.

The Bass comment was about him not being a likely candidate to be lynched that day because not that many other people suspected him.

I did change my vote to Sig pretty late but I had been planning to for a while. I wanted to reread the case because I didn't really remember the details of it, but I did remember agreeing heavily/seeing it as a good case and thinking Sig was likely bad.

oh so I'm not allowed to have neutral reads? I have to have an opinion of every single player, and that opinion can't be neutral? I put them as neutral because I honestly don't have a read on them. They could be good or bad.

Maybe it's the style you guys are used to but you and Scotty have been pressuring people to explain/elaborate on reads of every single player, way more than I'm used to. In all the many games of mafia I've played, I've never been asked so many times in a row, over and over, what my suspicions are and why. You guys have asked me like ten times now and I keep answering. I don't get it. Maybe it's easy for you to do ISOs of every single player and make elaborate cases on why you think they're mafia or not, but that's not the way I play and I'd like to stop being hounded for playing the game how I do.

I don't want this to come across as taking anything personally, I'm not. I'm just a bit tired of being asked the same things over and over.


Love Radical Face btw!

linki: the video showed up for me

Oh I forgot to vote in the night poll earlier. Picking "find" because I like to find cool stuff in the woods.

Scotty: Idk, I thought it was pretty self-explanatory why I thought Bubbles was bad. She was acting like she was cornered, all her posts sounded so so bad. What more do you want me to say? And as for my other suspicions, I've certainly explained a number of times why I suspect Bass, though again it's largely a gut read/tone of his posts. Sorry I don't have long detailed cases, that's not really the way I usually roll.

I don't know why you think I could be on team webber. I expressed suspicion of Sig long before most other people and was a strong proponent of his lynch, as well as G-man's.